Christian explanations of suffering:

1. Prophets say suffering is a punishment for sin.

2. Book of Job-Two answers

A. Suffering is a test and will be rewarded later for passing the test.
B. Suffering is beyond comprehension.

3. Ecclesiastes says suffering is the nature of things, and we must accept it.

4. In the apocalyptic tests in the Old and New Testaments-God will eventually make right what is wrong with the world.

These various explanations of why people must suffer illustrates that the Bible is not a single-minded text, but instead an amalgamation of various ideas.

As Christians, how do you deal with suffering in your life? Do these Biblical teachings listed above influence your approach to suffering?

Neither are we single minded people. Suffering and the reasons for suffering are as complex as people themselves.
Look at people who suffer it is never the same
*My old boyfriend suffers because he is his own worse enemy and makes bad decisions.
*I suffer because I try and help people and then end up on the short end of the stick.
*Some suffer because of bad circumstances.
*Some suffer because others trample them down getting to the top for themselves and not considering who they are stepping on.
*Some suffer because they just don't know any better (their own ignorance)
*Some suffer because things just never go right for them

I am sure if I think more on it I can come up with many more reasons people suffer. Like I said these various explanations of why people must suffer does not illustrate that the Bible is not a single-minded text, but rather that life and people are too complex for any one answer.

We suffer because we perceive each and evr situation oin a certain way and when those conditions are changed, we cannot accept them immediately. Suffering is a human condition not a spiritual one. Althing was can suffer spiritually if we do not have faith in ourselves.

Christian explanations of suffering:

1. Prophets say suffering is a punishment for sin.

2. Book of Job-Two answers

A. Suffering is a test and will be rewarded later for passing the test.
B. Suffering is beyond comprehension.

3. Ecclesiastes says suffering is the nature of things, and we must accept it.

4. In the apocalyptic tests in the Old and New Testaments-God will eventually make right what is wrong with the world.

These various explanations of why people must suffer illustrates that the Bible is not a single-minded text, but instead an amalgamation of various ideas.

As Christians, how do you deal with suffering in your life? Do these Biblical teachings listed above influence your approach to suffering?

These are the verses which help me deal with suffering in life:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

1 Peter 4:1
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

1 Peter 2:21
For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

This is why the Church teaches:
793 Christ unites us with his Passover: all his members must strive to resemble him, "until Christ be formed" in them. "For this reason we . . . are taken up into the mysteries of his life, . . . associated with his sufferings as the body with its head, suffering with him, that with him we may be glorified."

1502 The man of the Old Testament lives his sickness in the presence of God. It is before God that he laments his illness, and it is of God, Master of life and death, that he implores healing. Illness becomes a way to conversion; God's forgiveness initiates the healing. It is the experience of Israel that illness is mysteriously linked to sin and evil, and that faithfulness to God according to his law restores life: "For I am the Lord, your healer." The prophet intuits that suffering can also have a redemptive meaning for the sins of others. Finally Isaiah announces that God will usher in a time for Zion when he will pardon every offense and heal every illness.

1505 Moved by so much suffering Christ not only allows himself to be touched by the sick, but he makes their miseries his own: "He took our infirmities and bore our diseases." But he did not heal all the sick. His healings were signs of the coming of the Kingdom of God. They announced a more radical healing: the victory over sin and death through his Passover. On the cross Christ took upon himself the whole weight of evil and took away the "sin of the world," of which illness is only a consequence. By his passion and death on the cross Christ has given a new meaning to suffering: it can henceforth configure us to him and unite us with his redemptive Passion.

Stuff happens in life, and we just have to deal with it. We grow, and learn, and make adjustments.

Three things that I'm learning:

1.
For those who walk with God, He has good things planned for us. (Though He does discipline us if we wander too far. But I count that as shorter than "suffering")

Jas 1:17
17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
NIV

2.
The one who seeks to cause us to suffer is the devil.

Jn 10:10
0 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
NIV

3.
Wherever the suffering is coming from, God is going to give us beauty for ashes.

Ro 8:28-29
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
NIV

Choux,
Yes we suffer because we are of this world which has been called a veil of tears, a river of pain, and other things dealing with sufferung.
I have been doing a lot of suffering these last few years.
I do what I can about it medically and with prayer.
I pray for healing if God so wills.
I also offer my suffering up to God for the forgiveness of sins others and mine.
I pray that you will be able to handle your suffering well and if God so wills that you be healed.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

revdrgade, what is "jas 2"? "The one who seeks to cause us to suffer is the Devil."

We all have the power to make one another suffer. We all have the choice to perceive our circumstances as they are. If the above quote comes from the Bible, wouldn't it mean that Christians have the capacity to be the Devil? My experience with almost every Christian I come into contact with is that I am told I'm wrong. That could make me suffer, then they would be the Devil.

Choux, interesting question. The Christians can't make me suffer. Suffering is my own choice. They are not holier than thou, or holier than me because we are all one thing, already glorious. We have chosen to forget that. So, Jesus says "love your neighbor as yourself."

I know, it's all out of context... Feels like where my heart wants to be though. What if that feeling is true? Then my atheist neighbor is God and so are the Jewish and Musim ones! People who suffer and those who do not are God too.

simoneaugie,
Christians are NOT supposed to make you suffer.
They are supposed to be of help to you.
Christianity is supposed to be a religion of attraction.
We honor and worship a God of love, mercy, and salvation.
We are supposed to emulate God particularly in the physical form of Jesus Chrsit.
Jesus asks us to "Come to me you who are heavy laden and I will give you rest."
He helps us lift our suffering away through Him.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Because of original sin, mans fall from the garden, man must suffer. Before the fall, man had eternal life and perfection with GOD.

magprob,
Agreed!
Fred

Original sin is not Biblical.

Original sin is not Biblical.

Only in the sense that the words "original sin" are not found in Scripture. But Adam and Eve did commit the first sin and that is the Original Sin. And the consequences of that sin were the loss of Original justice. And we call those consequences by the same name, it is called the condition of being in "Original Sin".

The Original Sin:

Genesis 3 10And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself. 11And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? 12And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. 13And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. 14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The consequence thereof:
Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Sincerely,

De Maria

And in that scripture hides the reason we are doing what we are doing today and why the world is what it is today. It was the original sin that gives reason to good and evil, death and life.

revdrgade, what is "jas 2"? "The one who seeks to cause us to suffer is the Devil."

Sorry for the confusion:



The "jas 2" that you ask about is not in my answer. The "Jas" is for "James" in the previous Bible quote and the "2" is the second (of the "3 things I know").

I then quoted Jesus saying that the devil ("the thief") is the primary source of suffering for humans. Adam and Eve BELIEVED the serpent in the garden, disobeyed God and thus caused most of our suffering.

The devil still deceives, even Christians. When we walk in the devil's ways we have left the ways of God's (to love Him and love our neighbor) and we do cause suffering even though we are God's born again children.

Eph 4:22-28
22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

25 Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body. 26 "In your anger do not sin": Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, 27 and do not give the devil a foothold.
NIV

Rev,,
Very good.
I agree.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

No, the old testament says that God punishes, by expulsion from paradise, Adam and Eve for *disobeying* one of God's rules.

St. Augustine created the idea of Original Sin as part of his religious philosophy... original sin is not Biblical. St. Augustine said that Original Sin was passed along to the next generation through the male ejaculate.

Choux,
'Where is your information source for that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

"The view that sex was an evil was prevalent in Augustine's time. Plotinus, a neo-Platonist that Augustine praises in his Confessions,[39] taught that only through disdain for fleshly desire could one reach the ultimate state of mankind.[40] Augustine, likewise, had served as a "Hearer" for the Manicheans for about nine years,[41] and they also taught that the original sin was carnal knowledge.[42]

In his pre-Pelagian writings, Augustine taught that *Original Sin was transmitted by concupiscence* (roughly, lust), making humanity a massa damnata (mass of perdition, condemned crowd) and much enfeebling, though not destroying, the freedom of the will. In the struggle against Pelagianism, the principles of Augustine's teaching were confirmed by many councils, especially the Second Council of Orange (529). Anselm of Canterbury established the definition that was followed by the great Schoolmen, namely that Original Sin is the "privation of the righteousness which every man ought to possess", thus separating it from concupiscence, with which Augustine's disciples had often defined it, as later did Luther and Calvin, who instead of seeing concupiscence, like Augustine, as a vehicle of transmission of Original Sin actually equated the two, a doctrine condemned in 1567 by Pope Pius V.[31]

Augustine's formulation of the doctrine of original sin has substantially influenced both Catholic and Reformed (that is, Calvinist) theology. His understanding of sin and grace was developed against that of Pelagius.[43] Expositions on the topics are found in his works On Original Sin, On the Predestination of the Saints, On the Gift of Perseverance and On Nature and Grace."
----------

So, read his pre-Pelagian writings to see that he believed Original Sin was transferred to the next generation by male ejaculation. Should be interesting!

So, back to my question, "Why Must We Suffer?". The Biblical reasons were/are as I listed.

Original Sin is not Biblical.

"The view that sex was an evil was prevalent in Augustine's time. Plotinus, a neo-Platonist that Augustine praises in his Confessions,[39] taught that only through disdain for fleshly desire could one reach the ultimate state of mankind.[40] Augustine, likewise, had served as a "Hearer" for the Manicheans for about nine years,[41] and they also taught that the original sin was carnal knowledge.[42]

In his pre-Pelagian writings, Augustine taught that *Original Sin was transmitted by concupiscence* (roughly, lust), making humanity a massa damnata (mass of perdition, condemned crowd) and much enfeebling, though not destroying, the freedom of the will. In the struggle against Pelagianism, the principles of Augustine's teaching were confirmed by many councils, especially the Second Council of Orange (529). Anselm of Canterbury established the definition that was followed by the great Schoolmen, namely that Original Sin is the "privation of the righteousness which every man ought to possess", thus separating it from concupiscence, with which Augustine's disciples had often defined it, as later did Luther and Calvin, who instead of seeing concupiscence, like Augustine, as a vehicle of transmission of Original Sin actually equated the two, a doctrine condemned in 1567 by Pope Pius V.[31]

Augustine's formulation of the doctrine of original sin has substantially influenced both Catholic and Reformed (that is, Calvinist) theology. His understanding of sin and grace was developed against that of Pelagius.[43] Expositions on the topics are found in his works On Original Sin, On the Predestination of the Saints, On the Gift of Perseverance and On Nature and Grace."
----------

So, read his pre-Pelagian writings to see that he believed Original Sin was transferred to the next generation by male ejaculation. Should be interesting!!


If the implication here is that sex between married couples is somehow evil, a misconception has been made. Augustine doesn’t say how original sin is transmitted from generation to generation in all of Pelagians, but does identify its source as beginning with the Adam and Eve’s original sin.The quoted material from Wiki doesn’t address this issue of the generation of original sin, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo)

In Book I of Two Letters of Pelagians, Augustine refutes heretical views of the pelagians. One of those views was that intercourse of married people was evil and devised by the devil. As a consequence the newborn were born of the devil and full of sin as a result of this diabolical intercourse. He’s response is consistent with the concept of original sin.

“Nay, as I say that marriage was appointed by God for the sake of the ordinance of the begetting of children, so I say that the propagation of children to be begotten could not have taken place without sexual impulse, and without intercourse of husband and wife, even in Paradise, if children were begotten there”. Chapter 10, V

And he continues… “Since, therefore, I neither say that this intercourse of husband and wife is diabolical, especially in the case of believers, which is effected for the sake of generating children who are afterwards to be regenerated; nor that any men are made by the devil, but, in so far as they are men, by God; and nevertheless that even of believing husband and wife are born guilty persons (as if a wild olive were produced from an olive), on account of original sin, and on this account they are under the devil unless they are born again [baptized] in Christ...” Chapter 11, VI

“The Roman Catholic Church considers Augustine's teaching to be consistent with free will.[44] He often said that any can be saved if they wish.[44] While God knows who will be saved and who will not, with no possibility that one destined to be lost will be saved, this knowledge represents God's perfect knowledge of how humans will freely choose their destinies.[44] “ (Ibid)

JoeT

1 Cor 15:22
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(KJV)

The reason that Adam died was because of his sin, and if we all died "in Adam", that amounts to original sin.

As to the reasons for suffering, it has already been stated that the reasons can be as numerous as people are.

I believe that the reasons Christians suffer even when they are not living a sinful life style are at least two.

1. As representatives of Christ in this world, the world system hates Christians.

John 17:18
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
(KJV)

2. Christians are being prepared to rule on earth with Christ, and suffering is part of the training for various positions in His government.

Probably not many will agree with my #2, but it is my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

No, the old testament says that God punishes, by expulsion from paradise, Adam and Eve for *disobeying* one of God's rules.
It was the ONLY rule God had made, not "one of his rules."

According to the story in Genesis, God punished Adam and Eve with pain and suffering (3:19) and mercifully expelled them from the Garden ("Paradise") in order to prevent them from continuing to eat from the Tree of Life (3:22).

So, back to my question, "Why Must We Suffer?"

Why shouldn't we?

:)Tra la la. How can we appreciate the sunshine if there is no rain? Tra la la.:)

Hello, please note my question, folks, which is an accurate description of **the reasons the ***Bible*** says we must suffer**.

Stay on subject! NO off subject nit picking!!

So if it is Traditional (big T)
It is still properly taught.
Fred

Please, only people who understand the question... thanks. Original Sin is not Biblical.

Thanks.

If I have to limit myself to one of the Biblical answers you adumbrate in the OP, then I'd have to go with incomprehensibility, either that or it's the nature of things (after the nature of things was broken with the Fall). Personally, original sin makes some sense with regard to human suffering (we're broken), though neither it nor the Bible give me any peace with respect to the suffering of animals (which are without sin).

Hello, please note my question, folks, which is an accurate description of **the reasons the ***Bible*** says we must suffer**.
The Bible does NOT say we ****must**** suffer.

No nitpickers. If you understand the question please answer! Others desist!

**Christian *explanations* of suffering**:

1. Prophets say suffering is a punishment for sin.

2. Book of Job-Two answers

A. Suffering is a test and will be rewarded later for passing the test.
B. Suffering is beyond comprehension.

3. Ecclesiastes says suffering is the nature of things, and we must accept it.

4. In the apocalyptic tests in the Old and New Testaments-God will eventually make right what is wrong with the world.

These various explanations of why people must suffer illustrates that the Bible is not a single-minded text, but instead an amalgamation of various ideas.

As Christians, how do you deal with suffering in your life? Do these Biblical teachings listed above influence your approach to suffering?

I deal with my suffering by accepting it as best I can and by offering it up for the forgiveness of sins.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

We suffer because evil rules our planet and we must learn to overcome it.

Genesis 3 explains with the Adam and Eve story the beginning of sin and the reason for suffering, that man brought it upon himself by disobeying God. The question is not why there is suffering, but what is gained from suffering, i.e. considering St. John of the Cross and his "dark night of the soul," turning suffering around to benefit others, understanding the gift of suffering.

Wondergirl,
I agree.
Merry Christmas,
Fred

Magbrob,
I also agree with you.
Merry Christmas,
Fred

We suffer because evil rules our planet and we must learn to overcome it.

I would have to disagree. Love rules our planet. Unfortunately, evil has a strong foothold. But God is still in charge.

Our wold economy is collapsing because the money changers have infiltrated every government of the world. They are stealing huge tracks of land with the help of their puppet thugs, sending the people walking to nowhere. We are being poisoned by air and by land. Giant, greedy corporations control the government with billions of dollars stifling human creativity and stealing the little guys inventions. All the while, churches preach their doctrine.
Love may be in your heart and the hearts of many but they are working on a plan to steal even that. The scales have tipped to the evil side on this planet. The god of this world is satan.

Our wold economy is collapsing because the money changers have infiltrated every government of the world. They are stealing huge tracks of land with the help of their puppet thugs, sending the people walking to nowhere. We are being poisoned by air and by land. Giant, greedy corporations control the government with billions of dollars stifling human creativity and stealing the little guys inventions. All the while, churches preach their doctrine.
Love may be in your heart and the hearts of many but they are working on a plan to steal even that. The scales have tipped to the evil side on this planet. The god of this world is satan.
And who is to blame? As Pogo said, "The enemy is us." Naming the devil as the culprit is our way of avoiding responsibility. "The devil made me do it." Yeah, right.

We are to blame. We got too fat and stupid to from watching TV. I admit it. So kill me.

We are to blame. We got too fat and stupid to from watchin TV. I admit it. So kill me.Naw. It's the Spam.

No, really, I sat and watched TV while gourging on Spam finger sandwiches with the crust cut off. I deserve to die. I even drank real Coke, not diet. Please, kill me.

No, really, I sat and watched TV while gourging on Spam finger sandwiches with the crust cut off. I deserve to die. I even drank real Coke, not diet. Please, kill me.
Wonder white bread or 7-grain?

Like a true slut, any bread that was handy at the time. I cannot even begin to expose my sin with all of those Oreo cookies. I just cannot relive it. It was an abomination against nature.

Each of us can tell a similar story of gluttony or avarice or sloth. You, magprob, are the gilded mirror that each of us must hold up in front of our faces, to wit, to expose our sin and to name the ways in which we have brought suffering not only to ourselves but also to the world.

Yea. Kind of like Buddha, but with heart burn.

Yea. Kinda like Buddah, but with heart burn.
So with sin and suffering come Pepto-Bismol?

Sometimes Pepto. Most of the time a good ethnic cleansing does the trick. You know, like with mexican food, only ice cream will do.

Share your pain, and be free from it!!

Christian explanations of suffering:

1. Prophets say suffering is a punishment for sin.



Which passages?




2. Book of Job-Two answers

A. Suffering is a test and will be rewarded later for passing the test.
B. Suffering is beyond comprehension.



From Job 38 to 42, the Lord does not answer Job's question directly but reminds him of His omnipotence. Note that He states job's friends were wrong - suffering in this life is not necessarily a tit for tat scenario.


As to why?


2 Corinthians 1

3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, 4who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God. 5For just as the sufferings of Christ flow over into our lives, so also through Christ our comfort overflows.








James 1:

2Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. 4Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.






1peter 1:

6In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.






Romans 5:

1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a]have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we[b] rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but we[c] also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.








g&p

I see suffering as growth so I guess in that aspect it has value and if something has value maybe it has spiritual value.

If it makes you grow and you flourish through the suffering I guess that is spiritual.

I have more questions than answers Choux when it comes to the divine.

I believe we are tested and I believe we answer the call or not.

I just try to be as decent as I can(most of the time) and give when I can and hope that what I give is passed on and it goes full circle.

Many holiday blessings to you my friend!!

Suffering started in the garden of Eden when Eve disobeyed God
And let satan deceived her. From then on man did his own thing and we pay for it
In suffering. Satan or the devil delights in hurting man and trying to turn man away from God. Often people blame God when they suffer but it is not Gods fault. Satan loves to see
God get credit for his misdeeds. Mans rebellion against God and the evil in man's heart
Has caused much suffering. But God has given man a free will and the freedom either
To love and obey Him or to rebel against Him. God has set up certain natural laws to govern the universe like the law of gravity but people can suffer from this if they don't
Keep the law. We have not learned to cast all our cares upon God, as He has told us
To do so we have let our worried and harried minds make us sick and that is about 80
Percent of us. We want to take a Pill to make things better and go on doing the same thing the same way the wrong way. The consequence of a free life style that brings about AIDS, HERPES, SYPHILIS and GONORRHEA brings suffering. As long as we live in this
Carnal body satan will tempt us though what feels good, taste good, looks good and
Smells good and we will suffer the consequences. Satan came to steal, kill and destroy us but Jesus came that they might have life, and that they might have it more
Abundantly. God will intervene for those who diligently seek Him. Thousands of people,
Plus me, have testified that God will intervene to relieve pain and suffering. This does
Depend on the closeness and the intimacy you have with God. This is why Jesus came
To show us the way the truth and the life we must live. He died on the cross to forgive
Us of all our sins and to send the Holy Spirit, that is a part of HIm, that will lead us to
All truth. The key is and Jesus said "ASK, AND IT WILL BE GIVEN TO YOU; SEEK, AND YOU WILL FIND; KNOCK AND IT WILL OPEN TO YOU. FOR EVERONE WHO KNOCKS IT WILL BE OPENED" Don't give up keep on asking, seeking and knocking and believing.
He is faithful and good and loves you very mush, He will never leave you nor forsake
You. Your life dependeds upon every word God has given us, so listening and get every
Word, letting it sink into your mind . Gods Word is Power. We can overcome suffering
By His Stripes We were Healed and By The Blood We Were Cleansed!

Maggie 3

Sorry, I'm very disappointed with the Board menbers lack of understanding of the Bible.

The Bible explains human suffering as:

1. The prophets say it is punishment for disobeying God.

2.Book of Job. Two explanations. 1. God sending tests upon the individual. 2. Suffering is not explainable

3. Ecc. Suffering is the nature of things.

4. Apocalyptic texts. God will make right what is wrong... eventually.

Closing this question due to lack of intelligent, thoughtful answers.

Bye.

Choux disagrees: That's not what the Bible says... I asked the question.
Read your Bible. This time, wear your glasses. :)

I was referring to your *off topic* statement::

YOur "The question is not why there is suffering, but what is gained from suffering, i.e., considering St. John of the Cross and his "dark night of the soul," turning suffering around to benefit others, understanding the gift of suffering."

Ask your own questions if you want to talk about that!! :D

MY QUESTION related to the **Bible's explanations** of human suffering and how human suffering is explained in the BIBLE.

Incidentally, you know that the JEws TOTALL REJECT the idea of Original Sin being deduced from their scriptures, don't you. They reject the idea catagorically.

Closed Question due to poor comprehension on the part of the folks who answered. :)

Closed Question due to poor comprehension on the part of the folks who answered.
You can't close this question. It is still being discussed with very thoughtful and thought-provoking responses. Valuable contributions are being made. :)

Why do they reject it? Or do you not know?

Why do they reject it? Or do you not know?
From sullivan-county.com --

Judaism is emphatic that a person is born innocent - not evil, not good either, but innocent. Jews believe that man enters the world free of sin, with a soul that is pure and innocent and untainted. We are given a clean slate. But we are not born into an innocent world. The world we are born into is one of challenge, difficulty, pain and evil. But all these are merely means to an end: it is through facing challenges that we grow as human beings, through going through difficulty we bring out deeper resources from within, through pain we become stronger and by combatting evil we create a world of good. In the beginning Adam and Eve were pure beings who entered a perfect world. There was no pain, death, etc. in their world. The "knowledge of good and evil" was a tree that they were told to stay away from in order to maintain this perfect world. "On the day you eat from the tree you will become mortal" (Not just die as the KJV says.)

God is gave us a choice to either remain perfect in a perfect (spiritual) world, or we can ingest the knowledge of good and evil and become imperfect, mortal. God created us with a purpose. But what purpose could there be in remaining perfect? Why be just another animal ina zoo? Mortality was isn't punishment, but only natural consequence

To quote, "So too the other "curses" - pain in childbirth and difficulty in making a living are the natural consequences of Eve's choice, because from now on, all achievement has to be earned, which means that nothing can be "born" without hardship. As descendants of Adam and Eve we have inherited this path - the path of facing challenges, fighting evil and trying to bring the world back to its previous perfection."

To summarise:
1) The "sin" of Adam and Eve was in fact a conscious choice, a necessary step in the development of humanity's purpose. It was the introduciton of imperfection into creation - something only humans can do.
2) We are not born evil, but we are born in a world of apparent evil and hidden goodness. Our mission is to reveal that goodness.

All that for eating an apple? I'm going to have a banana.

All that for eating an apple? I'm gonna have a banana.
Be careful. It wasn't an apple; it was a banana.

Do you have a banana in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

Dat ain't no banana, dats my nose!

Do you have a banana in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

Dat ain't no banana, dats my nose!
You Idaho people are so funny! Did I ever tell you my mom's from Idaho, near Buhl? I have cousins in Ashton and Jerome and all over around there. Probaby even in Craters of the Moon.

Tell me more about what you think of the Jewish view of original sin and suffering. (staying on topic... )

Idaho is pure heaven on earth. To bad every one else is starting to figure that out.

I'll tell you, after having read the Talmud from cover to cover, I really don't know what to think. I'm sure if I gave you my take on original sin, you would not agree with me. Don't jump to conclusions though, just because I live in Idaho. I was born and raised in San Diego California.

I think the original sin happened because Eve was seduced by satan and the result of that union was Cain.
Satan had to corrupt the line of Adam so that the Christ would be of his linage. Abel was the result of Adam and Eves union. GOD did not like Cain because of it. Cain became jelous and killed Abel.
It was the fall of man from perfection.
Seth was the next Son of Adam and Eve.
Noah was the last man on earth born from the Adamic linage. His wife was of the Cain linage.
Cain's blood finally became prevalent in all of humaity.
We are both good and evil. We have to decide which road we go down. It is a struggle but the high road is the best.
It had to be that way to allow us to become a true member of the family of GOD.

Idaho is pure heaven on earth. To bad every one else is starting to figure that out.

I'll tell you, after having read the Talmud from cover to cover, I really don't know what to think. I'm sure if I gave you my take on original sin, you would not agree with me. Don't jump to conclusions though, just because I live in Idaho. I was born and raised in San Diego California.

I think the original sin happened because Eve was seduced by satan and the result of that union was Cain.
Satan had to corrupt the line of Adam so that the Christ would be of his linage. Abel was the result of Adam and Eves union. GOD did not like Cain because of it. Cain became jelous and killed Abel.
It was the fall of man from perfection.
Seth was the next Son of Adam and Eve.
Noah was the last man on earth born from the Adamic linage. His wife was of the Cain linage.
Cain's blood finally became prevalent in all of humaity.
We are both good and evil. We have to decide which road we go down. It is a struggle but the high road is the best.
It had to be that way to allow us to become a true member of the family of GOD.

Thanks for sharing that -- have never heard that version before. Did you read that somewhere, or come up with those conclusions on your own? I don't believe in Satan in the first place, but like to hear about other ideas on what might have happened.

San Diego is supposed to be the perfect place on earth -- scenery, ocean, mountains, temperature, people, libraries, that burger place, close to Mexico, -- except prices aren't the best... Idaho panhandle is awesome too, and those huckleberry cordials! I get mine from Priest River.

So which version do you believe?

1) Eve ate an apple
2) Eve read a book about good and evil
3)Eve ate a banana

And, why did Adam and Eve feel compeled to cover their privates in front of GOD?

San Diego was the perfect place on earth. Don't even get me started!

So which version do you believe?

1) Eve ate an apple
2) Eve read a book about good and evil
3)Eve ate a banana

And, why did Adam and Eve feel compeled to cover their privates in front of GOD?
I think this story is allegorical, a story that tells a great truth, has a bigger message than just the story itself.

Oh, I see. Didn't happen. That's easy.

Spam of many kinds.
Fred