The talley keeps changing as the recount has moved to above 75% counted. It started with Coleman leading Franken by 215 votes . It shrunk to as low as 120 votes but best guess is that it will remain at around a 200 vote advantage for Coleman.

The next phase however will get tricky . More than 3,000 ballots have been challenged by both sides . And now we will be subject to the optical scanner version of the "hanging chad" and inverted dimple.
Chad (paper) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanging_chad)

The integrity of the recount will be in the hands of the Canvassing board.
A glance at members of Minn. canvassing board (http://www.startribune.com/local/34358819.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD 3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUl)

Franken now claims they're only down by 84 votes (http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/11/franken_camps_claim_were_only.php#more).

"All challenged ballots, regardless of the merits of the challenges, are taken out of the count for now until the state canvassing board can make a final ruling.

The Franken camp, however, says its observers have taken down what the opinions were of the on-site election judges, and get their number by assuming that the local officials' calls will ultimately be upheld."

He's putting a nice spin on it anyway.

Hello tom:

I just want the Jew to win.

excon

Lol I believe you are assured of that outcome.

Franken has challenged the status of some absentee ballots also . Over 2,000 absentee ballots were rejected because the voter wasn't registered, didn't sign the ballot or have a witness.

The Canvassing board will likely decide on them today . But no matter how they rule this election is likely to end up in the courts (again... rediculous !)

During the 2004 Washington State Guv race the names on the disputed ballots were made public even though the 2002 Help America Vote Act stipulated that provisional ballots remain private This was also a provision in the Washington State's constitution. But a local judge by fiat over-ruled the law.

A scramble ensued by both parties to get certain people to claim that their ballots were being falsely excluded. The Democrats were better at the game. Democrats turned in 600 written oaths from people declaring how they had intended to vote, and Republicans about 200. Those ballots were all counted, and made the difference in the race.

Franken is counting on a repeat of that tactic.

The Democrats were better at the game.Hello again, tom:

Poor Republicans... They're getting outRoved. How did THAT happen?

excon

Groan :
Minnesota's state Canvassing Board refused the Franken request to count rejected absentee ballots. But they did not rule on the merits of his claim. They said that it was a matter to be decided by the courts.

Now no matter what the final recount numbers show , we'll still have legal fights over these absentee ballots, and that's not even taking into account the thousands of challenged ballots by both campaigns that still need to be ruled on by the Canvassing Board.

The good news is with about half the votes counted in Minneapolis where you'd think he should have the biggest gains, the count is going the wrong way for Franken.

Franken will lose the recount . That much now is clear. The question becomes :does he let it end there ? He still has the court option...

Or he can use the assistance of the Democrats in the Senate to assist him in securing victory .

Yes it is true . The final arbiter in Congressional elections is Congress itself. The Senate can be called on to decide the election ;even if Minnesota certifies the outcome .
Article I, Section 5. "Each House shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members."

John Fund at WSJ cites a 1975 example of this :

In 1975, the U.S. Senate refused to accept New Hampshire's certification that Republican Louis Wyman had won by two votes. The seat was vacant for seven months, with the Senate debate spanning 100 hours and six unsuccessful attempts to break a filibuster and vote on who should be seated. The impasse ended only when a special election was agreed to, which was won by Democrat John Durkin.
The Battle for Minnesota Is Just Getting Started - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122765786687858249.html)

Justice Scalia while on the appellate court ruled clearly that the Congress had the authority :
http://altlaw.org/v1/cases/419377


"It is difficult to imagine a clearer case of 'textually demonstrable constitutional commitment' of an issue to another branch of government to the exclusion of the courts… than the language of Article I, section 5, clause 1 that '[e]ach House shall be the Judge of the Elections, Returns and Qualifications of its own Members.' The provision states not merely that each House 'may judge' these matters, but that each House 'shall be the Judge' The exclusion of others - and in particular of others who are judges - could not be more evident."


This happened frequently in the days before the 17th amendment ;especially when the balance of free and slave states was determined by who was a Senator. Since the 17th amendment ;it has been rare. The most recent Senate case, involved Mary Landrieu's election from Louisiana in 1996.The Senate took 10 months before fully certifying Landrieu .

Franken has already visited with Harry Reid to plot this strategy .

I read that Reid was certainly sympathetic, that old "disenfranchisement" ploy. Last I checked Coleman was up by 292 so the count is still in his favor.

I guess you heard more missing ballots turned up and the Secretary of State has requested the rejected absentee ballots be sorted (http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/senate/35383869.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD 3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUT) in case they decide to take a look. Coleman is still expected to win (up by 303 now) and he did well in the remaining counties.

The other good news of course is Chambliss won big in Georgia, thanks in part to Sarah Palin's presence (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16162.html)... and Obama's absence (http://www.andreatantaros.com/1/2008/12/What-the-Georgia-Win-Really-Means.cfm).

Doesn't surprise me that more ballots turned up.Which mausoleum at Lakewood cemetery were they stashed at ? Try harder ; Keep counting until you get the right result.

I think that 1 or 2 votes shy is the equivalent of a Super-Majority anyway. You know that more times than not Susan Collins and Olympia Snowjob will cross over .

Now Franken wants a "forensic search" of a Minneapolis church (http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/franken-wants-forensic-search-for-missing-ballots-2008-12-04.html). The Coleman campaign had a response:


“Today’s demand from the Franken Campaign that government authorities invade the University Lutheran Church Of Hope, essentially cordoning it off and conducting a forensics search, is both offensive and completely out-of-control. At what point does the Franken campaign simply conduct itself in this recount with some semblance of dignity? Demanding that the government invade a place of worship—and require taxpayers to foot the bill for that invasion—is bizarre and repulsive.

“In addition to a loud slap in the face of local election officials, the Franken campaign’s demand for information on the administrator of the church is simply tantamount to government-sponsored persecution. The Franken campaign has routinely questioned the integrity of local Minnesota election officials who are doing their civic duty and helping out with the recount efforts, and today’s demands from their campaign should be rejected by all Minnesotans who value the way in which we conduct ourselves and elections in this state.”

Franken has no dignity.

Franken has no dignity.Hello Steve:

Yup, he's out Roving 'em. Shame on him. Bwa, ha ha ha.

excon

Hello Steve:

Yup, he's out Roving 'em. Shame on him. Bwa, ha ha ha.

Out Roving 'em? He's merely expanding on The Goracle's example.

There has to be at least 200 ballots stuffed in the confessional and another 50 in the tabernacle. Has he finished exhuming every tomb at Lakewood yet ?

Minnesota :

Keep counting until you get the right results

washingtonpost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/12/AR2008121203989.html)

They're certainly trying. As of yesterday (http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/18/colemans-lead-over-franken-now-down-to-two-votes/) Coleman's lead was down to 2 or 5 votes depending on who you believe.

Update already, Franken pushes his lead over Coleman past 250 (http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/senate/36438459.html?elr=KArks8c7PaP3E77K_3c::D3aDhUxWoW_ oD:EaDUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiU)

Ugh... what a disgrace. Maybe we should just let Canada have Minnesota.

Just to play devil's advocate; would it be a disgrace if Franken had the lead all this time and Coleman suddenly surged ahead? Or are you simply disgusted with Franken?

I for one don't give a rats behind who wins, so long as each valid vote is counted, that's what we count on when we go to the booth in a Democracy, right?

Just to play devil's advocate; would it be a disgrace if Franken had the lead all this time and Coleman suddenly surged ahead? Or are you simply disgusted with Franken?

I for one don't give a rats behind who wins, so long as each valid vote is counted, that's what we count on when we go to the booth in a Democracy, right?

The clue was in the last post and the mention of Minnesota... they're rapidly becoming a laughingstock when it comes to elections. This one has been handled horribly.

The clue was in the last post and the mention of Minnesota...they're rapidly becoming a laughingstock when it comes to elections. This one has been handled horribly.

You would think that with all of our technology, some of the brightest minds in the world; that we could develop a FOOL proof system to count votes; we've been doing it long enough :rolleyes:

Just one stolen election can have long reaching results.

Lyndon Johnson reputedly won his first term as senator by a ballot box that came in really late.

Eventually, that gave us President Johnson, the "Great Society" (society lost) and expanded government.

What disgusts me is the court's involvement. The courts have no place in a civilized election ;and both sides have turned to the courts for redress.

Coleman is the latest . He is arguing correctly that at least 150 ballots have been double counted . But the State Canvassing Board ;after seeming to agree that double counts are a problem ;refused to get involved in the matter.

Franken took the lead when previously rejected absentee ballots started being counted... what is being called the fifth pile .
Scott Johnson at Powerline has been doing a good job following the recount.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2008/12/022290.php
It appears that this recount of the fifth pile that pushed Franken into the lead is the result of a deal struck between the Franken camp and the State Attorney General Lori Swanson .