Just a thought...

What do members think of Religious Education in their respective countries.

My apologies for any offence this may create. I am a total atheist, I cannot bring myself to believe in an omnipotent being, but that's who I am.

I am all for religious tolerance and feel that if "we" were all taught the basics about the various "main" religions of the world... maybe, just maybe the whole place would be a darn site nicer place!

Throughout history, more people have been killed, murdered, etc for the sake of one God or another than any other reason, and yet as far as I know all Gods teaching preach peace! (Those who wish to differ feel free)

The question is about religious education, not the merits of one God over another.

Thanks

... not really sure what you're asking... does this address it?:

I think the "religious education" in public schools up through High School is so nominal that it is neither harmful nor helpful.

At the College level, though, I think "comparative religion" is handled very nicely.

Colbtech I just totally agree with your second to last phrase because that's how I interpret religion and god as peace not to kill, murder in the name of what people believe in.

I was brought up catholic but I'm more agnostic. I like to believe there is a good force of nature above all of us.

I had religious studies everyday at school and one lesson was a double lesson!
99.9% of the population of malta are catholics thou!

Rick: Never had the option of "Comparative Religions" when I was at school (when I was there). From what I remember there was no right or wrong religion, just "It is wrong not to believe, you'll go to hell"

Krs: I too believe that there is good in all of us regardless of religion. I also had Double Divinity Monday mornings first and second lesson.

Now I know why I don't like Mondays! Thanks for the reminder...

I never had a choice of religion when at school.

In fact my husband is no religion and when we talk about the future and our kids, he does ask me if he expects me to baptise them catholics.
Although all schools are catholic school and even private schools you are thought religion I would rather teach my kids and let them learn at school about religion then they can make their own choice. Im a firm believer of that!

If I had to pick a religion I think buddhism would suit me ;)

It's funny when I look back at it - I went to Catholic school all my life, private boys Jesuit college, even graduated from Bishop's University (LOL) and it never had an effect on me. The education was wonderful mind you, I always tested higher than my public school friends.

My first child is about to enter the public school system here in Canada and I haven't even looked into what they do for religion courses. As long as it's fair and balanced (like FOX News!) she can make up her own mind and ask us questions. What I don't want to someone instilling fear, guilt and hate in her sweet little mind.

True, Needkarma. There are many religions out there that instill fear into people. Predictions of the end of the world. If you do not follow a certain religion you will go to ----. All that stuff, but not all of it is bad. Not all people believe in those teachings anymore. People I think are a lot more opened minded today. I personally do think it would be beneficial if they taught religion class, regardless of belief. There are many people who are interested in many different beliefs and it is up to each individual what they believe and do not believe. I was brought up roman catholic but there are things that I do disagree with. It was intimidating going to confession all the time trying to come up with things you did wrong to tell the priest. Anyway, I personally have read the bible on my own, I go by what is written in my heart and soul. That is what we all need to follow. To wait until a child is older to let them explore what belief is good for them would be beneficial but could also be bad, there are many people who get caught up in cults because they do not know any difference. I guess that is a whole other ball game. I am going to stop rambling. Choice is good. Religion teachings in school, good. I agree with teaching variety of religions. Instead of just one.

Joe

Unfortunately here in the States we are supposed to keep religion out of school. However, the school my daughter, she is 12 and in 7th grade, attends has found an interesting way to teach what Rickj calles "comparative religion." They have turned it over to the Social Studies department and she is being taught Buddhism, Daoism, Islam, Confuscinism, and the like. She feels it is very interesting and opened her eyes to different kinds of people.

Unfortunatley here in the States we are supposed to keep religion out of school. However, the school my daughter, she is 12 and in 7th grade, attends has found an interesting way to teach what Rickj calles "comparative religion." They have turned it over to the Social Studies department and she is being taught Buddhism, Daoism, Islam, Confuscinism, and the like. She feels it is very interesting and opened her eyes to different kinds of people.

I think that I would have found this far more interesting than the standard C of E education that I was subjected to.

At 12 years old, she has found it extremely interesting. As a matter of fact, in college last semester I chose a course for an elective called Survey of World Religions, and was even able to get into a rather adult conversation about the beliefs of other faiths with my 12 year old.

She said that this has taught her to be more considerate of other ways of life.

True, Needkarma. There are many religions out there that instill fear into people. Predictions of the end of the world. If you do not follow a certain religion you will go to ----. All that stuff, but not all of it is bad. Not all people believe in those teachings anymore. People I think are a lot more opened minded today.
Joe


Are you saying that predictions that the world will end are bad? Not believing them is good? Believing them is to be closed minded. Not believing them is to be open minded? Or am I once more misunderstanding you? Isn't Christianity a "certain religion"?


Why someone should fear this wicked world ending and being replaced with an infinitely better one where the present sufferings will end and even death will be done away with is far beyond me.

Revelation 21:4 (King James Version)
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Isaiah 65:17
[ New Heavens and a New Earth ] "For behold, I create new heavensand a new earth,and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.
Isaiah 65:16-18 (in Context) Isaiah 65 (Whole Chapter)

2 Peter 3:13
But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.



Actually, the solution to the present confusion of religions and its hate crimes based on this confusion which began at Babel is the ending of this world and its replacement with one which will function under God's direct rule via Jesus.

As stated by Peter, one of Jesus' Apostles and the one Catholics say was their first Pope, in this New World no unrighteousness will exist, which means no religiously motivated crimes. In short, we are told that man by his own effort can't fix things on this earth and that only solution is a termination or ending of this system of things as JESUS promised would take place.


BTW
Those who love righteousness fear the continuance of this wicked world not its termination.

Starman,

Yes, once again you are misunderstanding me. I am not afraid of this world ending but if you want to go straight for the bible it says that their will be many predictions about the end, many people claiming to be the returned jesus which is false. Jesus will come back to judge the world like a thief in the night. No one can predict the time, day, month, year of his return. Not even the angels in heaven know when it is going to happen. Only God. So why do so many people listen to predictions? I think the predictions are false because no one knows the time or day. People who predict the end times and scare tactics from certain religions and cults does do damage. Even causes deaths for some lost souls. So is it bad to predict, yes. Why, the bible states that no one knows the day.

Are you saying that predictions that the world will end are bad? Not believing them is good? Believing them is to be closed minded. Not believing them is to be open minded? Or am I once more misunderstanding you?
BTW

Why someone should fear this wicked world ending and being replaced with an infinitely better one where the present sufferings will end and even death will be done away with is far beyond me.I don't see any present sufferings and neither should kids in grade school. I also wouldn't go around telling little kids that the world will end - that's akin to some form of child abuse in my book.

I don't see any present sufferings and neither should kids in grade school. I also wouldn't go around telling little kids that the world will end - that's akin to some form of child abuse in my book.

You don't see murder, sickness, terrorism, theft, rape, child abuse, torture, beheadings, mourning? Then we aren't living in the same world.

BTW
Telling kids that this garbage is going to continue and that there is no God who cares or who will put an end to it is child abuse.

Starman,

Yes, once again you are misunderstanding me. I am not afraid of this world ending but if you want to go straight for the bible it says that their will be many predictions about the end, many people claiming to be the returned jesus which is false. Jesus will come back to judge the world like a thief in the night. No one can predict the time, day, month, year of his return. Not even the angels in heaven know when it is going to happen. Only God. So why do so many people listen to predictions? I think the predictions are false because no one knows the time or day. People who predict the end times and scare tactics from certain religions and cults does do damage. Even causes deaths for some lost souls. So is it bad to predict, yes. Why, the bible states that no one knows the day.

You are 100% right.
Thanks for the clarification.
Predicting the exact date is unscriptural because, as you say, even Jesus himself admitted he didn't know. I agree that such predictions are wrong since they assume more knowledge than the scriptures warrant. So the wise thing to do is simply admit we don't know as Jesus did, live a Christian life, and let God take care of the rest.

BTW
I also agree that such predictions can cause great damage to the believer's faith and his life.

You don't see murder, sickness, terrorism, theft, rape, child abuse, torture, beheadings, mourning? Then we aren't living in the same world.
You just choose to see all the bad things in this world. I choose to see all the good things in the world. Hey, what if there isn't this 'magical' place where there there is no strife at all? I'd rather enjoy my time here on earth with good people and do good things.

To each his own.

I'm not sure there are actual religion classes in public school here, but they might take a sort of comparative religions section as part of social studies. Also, at various holiday times, children are educated and exposed to the different cultural / religious celebrations, such as Channukah, Passover, Ramadan, Kwanzaa, Holi, and the traditions of the First Nations peoples, etc, as our area is quite multicultural. The elementary school near my home has about a high percentage of Muslim children, for example.

My children are going to the Montessori school though, which is private. From what I understand, they will be learning comparative religions as well. Overall I think it's very good for children to learn about the cultures and beliefs of others, and especially to learn that their particular beliefs are not better than anyone else's. I think it fosters respect and understanding.

I am Jewish, and I went to a Catholic school, and I was treated very well there. I learned to appreciate the Catholic faith while at the same time not feeling like I had to be a Catholic personally. The Sisters always made me feel special for being Jewish, and encouraged me to learn about my faith. I took comparative religions in university as well and found it very interesting and enlightening.

... hmmm, where's those boxing gloves?

You just choose to see all the bad things in this world. I choose to see all the good things in the world. Hey, what if there isn't this 'magical' place where there there is no strife at all? I'd rather enjoy my time here on earth with good people and do good things.

To each his own.

I am sure you would. But please uderstand that it all depends on what we consider "good things" and who we consider "good people" since such terms have a very broad meaning and can be interpreted in many ways to suit one's preferences as human history repetedly demonstrates.

Yes, I do I see it all, the good and the bad. There is nothing wrong with enjoying oneself as long as it doesn't involve harming people in some way. Example:

Some people enjoy themselves by stealing, raping, wife beating, torture, persecuting those who are different in some way, constantly insulting via sarcasm, depriving others of their human rights etecetera. While others enjoy themselves via helping the disadvantaged, going surfing, playing basketball, conversation, playing the guitar, reading, watching a movie, sex with the wife, etcetera.

There is no need to stop enjoying yourself simply because you believe that a New World is coming. Unless, of course, the type of enjoyment is the former one I describe, Then I suppose there will be deprivation.

BTW

I agree: to each his own.

You just choose to see all the bad things in this world. I choose to see all the good things in the world. Hey, what if there isn't this 'magical' place where there there is no strife at all? I'd rather enjoy my time here on earth with good people and do good things.

To each his own.

Tried to give you rep and couldn't... anyway I agree with you 100%! I don't see the point in teaching my children about all the horrors of the world and scaring them on purpose. There's plenty of time for them to learn about that world as they get older. Rather I'd like to concentrate on what they can do personally to make the world a better place. Like with a hurricane or a tsunami for instance, rather than dwell on how horrible it was and how it signals climate change or G-d's wrath or whatever, I would rather teach the kids the meaning of compassion... let them help with raising money or goods to send to the victims, etc. Let them see how in times of trouble like that people can band together to help the less fortunate, regardless of their beliefs. I never want my kids to give up hope.

My biological mother was a paranoid schizophrenic, and she was constantly telling me about the horrors of the world and how the world was unsafe, that it was going to end soon and G-d would save us, etc. All that did was terrorize me and cause trauma. It took me a long time in therapy to not feel that the world was a terrible place.

There is a fair middle ground. Kids should be made aware of the world and it's ways along with all the other stuff we teach and show them as they grow.

... but granted; we should not make it out to be an evil place or try to scare them.

There is a fair middle ground. Kids should be made aware of the world and it's ways along with all the other stuff we teach and show them as they grow.

...but granted; we should not make it out to be an evil place or try to scare them.

Yes, agreed! It's similar to sex education, I think. You don't introduce everything to kids at once, as it's too overwhelming. You gradually teach them things, as they can handle and understand it.

Tried to give you rep and couldn't... anyways I agree with you 100%! I don't see the point in teaching my children about all the horrors of the world and scaring them on purpose. There's plenty of time for them to learn about that world as they get older. Rather I'd like to concentrate on what they can do personally to make the world a better place. Like with a hurricane or a tsunami for instance, rather than dwell on how horrible it was and how it signals climate change or G-d's wrath or whatever, I would rather teach the kids the meaning of compassion... let them help with raising money or goods to send to the victims, etc. Let them see how in times of trouble like that people can band together to help the less fortunate, regardless of their beliefs. I never want my kids to give up hope.

My biological mother was a paranoid schizophrenic, and she was constantly telling me about the horrors of the world and how the world was unsafe, that it was going to end soon and G-d would save us, etc. All that did was terrorize me and cause trauma. It took me a long time in therapy to not feel that the world was a terrible place.


Yu really believe that's what I said?
The method you describe with the emphasis on the horrors taught to children along with the infusion of hopelessness has absolutely nothing to do with the preaching of the Good News of the Kingdom.

BTW
My three kids, who are now grown, thank me for having taught them that God offers hope for the future of mankind and that this world isn't all there is for us. It helped them to face up to the daily persecution they were subjected to by the other kidsin the neighborhood based on ethnic differences as well as a physically abusive mother who had no faith in God.

BTW

Their mother considered herself good people and so did all the kids involved in the persecution. I suspect they were somehow enjoying themselves while they still had time.

a physically abusive mother who had no faith in God.Remember, she wasn't physically abusing because she had no faith in God, she was just a bad mother. Watch out for erroneous cause and effect relationships.

By colbtech

I am all for religious tolerance and feel that if "we" were all taught the basics about the various "main" religions of the world... maybe, just maybe the whole place would be a darn site nicer place
Thank you!

So the consensus ( bar one ) so far is that teaching about all the religions and faiths of the world is by far the most sensible way to bring up our children.

Knowledge is not dangerous but ingnorance is. That which you know can be understood - that which you are ignorant of you tend not to understand and therefore, fear.

I concur! Children should not be brought up in fear.

... and may your god go with you

So the concensus ( bar one ) so far is that teaching about all the religions and faiths of the world is by far the most sensible way to bring up our children.

Knowledge is not dangerous but ingnorance is. That which you know can be understood - that which you are ignorant of you tend not to understand and therefore, fear.

I concur !! Children should not be brought up in fear.

...........and may your god go with you

It would be worrisome to find anyone who disagreed with religious education. It puts the lie to the old axiom, "What you don't know can't hurt you." Ignorance can be deadly, especially when it is wedded to intolerance.

M:)RGANITE

Hmmm, what an interesting concept you have there... almost like maybe require any educational facility that teaches religion to give a comparative course first? The only trouble I see with that is some countries would do it and some would not and some would dance on a slippery slope. What to do about all the noncompliance? Makes me shudder a little, hmm?

I have never been a big fan of legislated morality. I think its more potent as lessons learned on an individual basis. And while I agree with Morganite that ignorance can be deadly, I am also aware that while you can force a book in front of someone, you cannot necessarily make them learn. I see an easier softer path in that the world (meaning the majority of people) can put pressure on their respective religious leaders to adapt a respectful and tolerant tone that filters from the top down. I still believe we are the power even though we don't exercise it often enough.

This is the dawn of the "information age" and as the world learns, it changes and I think there may be some dawning awareness by churches that their flocks are far more sophisticated in their thinking than they once were, at least in places where information access is uninhibited. That is definitely going to make a difference in the long run, I think!

Who we are in the world collectively is largely determined by how we were raised. And I really like what Gandhi said about "we must be the change we seek in the world."... ergo, I am religiously tolerant, I like to think? If I had been blessed with kids, I would have hoped to pass that on to them.

It would be worrisome to find anyone who disagreed with religious education. It puts the lie to the old axiom, "What you don't know can't hurt you." Ignorance can be deadly, especially when it is wedded to intolerance.It isn't worrisome at all. Leave it the parents to teach about religion not an educator.

It isn't worrisome at all. Leave it the parents to teach about religion not an educator.
Nods in agreement.. nod nod nod lol
Actually parents teach it, actively or subconsciously, whether they realise it or not... as they do many many things.

Leave it the parents to teach about religion not an educator.


You must see the distinction between indoctrination and education. Indoctrination has as its legitimate aim, the inculcation of faith. The aim of education is to impart information, not to convert. The best parents in the world cannot teach that of which they are ignorant.

If I remember correctly, the question was whether religious education (not religious indoctrination) should be taught to spread understanding and tolerance. If it does that, and it should, then who can possibly be against it?


M:)RGANITE

Hmmm, what an interesting concept you have there... almost like maybe require any educational facility that teaches religion to give a comparative course first? The only trouble I see with that is some countries would do it and some would not and some would dance on a slippery slope. What to do about all the noncompliance? Makes me shudder a little, hmm?

I have never been a big fan of legislated morality. I think its more potent as lessons learned on an individual basis. And while I agree with Morganite that ignorance can be deadly, I am also aware that while you can force a book in front of someone, you cannot necessarily make them learn. I see an easier softer path in that the world (meaning the majority of people) can put pressure on their respective religious leaders to adapt a respectful and tolerant tone that filters from the top down. I still believe we are the power even though we don't exercise it often enough.

This is the dawn of the "information age" and as the world learns, it changes and I think there may be some dawning awareness by churches that their flocks are far more sophisticated in their thinking than they once were, at least in places where information access is uninhibited. That is definately going to make a difference in the long run, I think!

Who we are in the world collectively is largely determined by how we were raised. And I really like what Ghandi said about "we must be the change we seek in the world." .....ergo, I am religiously tolerant, I like to think? If I had been blessed with kids, I would have hoped to pass that on to them.


I believe that you have wandered off course here. There are some enlightened countries in the world where religious education is a normal part of the school curriculum. As there are math teachers, English teachers, etc. so there are religious education teachers who follow a prescribed curriculum that deals with the major principles of the world's six major faiths.

Education is not a matter of forcing someone to read a book, but of enticing them to open their minds to the world of ideas, and teaching them how best to use their minds to think straight and reach conclusions based on evidence, rather than be fetterd throughout their lives by the chains of ignorance, bigotry, and intolerance.

Parents who are not educated in mind expanding experiences and who do not think on life's m,ajor aims, etc. are unable to pass anything on to their children other than baseless prejudices. Education lifts the lid on their world of darkness, lets in the light of discovery, and frees the children from walking through the same dark minded world as their parents did.

When the world was smaller and all we knew of faith was that which predominated in our nations, religious education was either a curiosity like the six-toed sloth, or else it was given to satisfying the catechical demands of an established denomination. The world has changed, and the major faiths and several minor ones are probably well represented in our communities. The reduction of suspicion, hostility, and misunderstanding is the aim or religious education. And, I aver, it is a noble aim, one worthy of our best attention.



M:)RGANITE

Nods in agreement.. nod nod nod lol
Actually parents teach it, actively or subconsciously, whether they realise it or not.....as they do many many things.


Some do, and some don't.



M

by colbtech

Thank you!

Agree ++++++++++


M

There are some enlightened countries in the world where religious education is a normal part of the school curriculum.....curriculum that deals with the major principles of the world's six major faiths.

Yes actually I knew that Morganite mostly because I attended such a course as offered in my enlightened school system but thank you for the reminder here. For the record, the course was an elective, as I think it has to be given that this took place in the US.


Education is not a matter of forcing someone to read a book, but of enticing them to open their minds to the world of ideas, and teaching them how best to use their minds to think straight and reach conclusions based on evidence, rather than be fetterd throughout their lives by the chains of ignorance, bigotry, and intolerance.

That is precisely how I experienced the majority of my educational life and I feel very fortunate for it. I am mindful however that too many educational facilities, especially some around the world like very ones you mentioned, do not work like that. They should, but they don't... which is why I raised the compliance issue. And even if they do, the damage done by parental prejudice is a tall order for even the best of required education to overcome. You only need look at black history education in the US to see evidence of that.


Parents who are not educated in mind expanding experiences and who do not think on life's major aims, etc., are unable to pass anything on to their children other than baseless prejudices.

And trust me, they will claim that as "education" despite any semantics lessons you might offer. And there are many ways to "educate" or become "educated"... one of the most potent for me is the power of example. I believe it may be for many others too.


The reduction of suspicion, hostility, and misunderstanding is the aim of religious education. It is a noble aim, one worthy of our best attention.

I agree! And my point was there is simply no stopping the individual from seeking enlightenment (despite his/her poor parenting or educational system) if they are in a free-access information environment. I am actually more on your side than you may realise Morganite since I believe religious education has merit. Its just when I look beyond the idea, I see practical application problems and I was discussing those and offering a viable alternative.

PS - Do you need to proofread your signature line, Morganite, "do you feel to sing along" doesn't seem complete?

Yes actually I knew that Morganite mostly because I attended such a course as offered in my enlightened school system but thank you for the reminder here. For the record, the course was an elective, as I think it has to be given that this took place in the US.



That is precisely how I experienced the majority of my educational life and I feel very fortunate for it. I am mindful however that too many educational facilites, especially some around the world like very ones you mentioned, do not work like that. They should, but they don't... which is why I raised the compliance issue. And even if they do, the damage done by parental prejudice is a tall order for even the best of required education to overcome. You only need look at black history education in the US to see evidence of that.



And trust me, they will claim that as "education" dispite any semantics lessons you might offer. And there are many ways to "educate" or become "educated"....one of the most potent for me is the power of example. I believe it may be for many others too.



I agree! And my point was there is simply no stopping the individual from seeking enlightenment (despite his/her poor parenting or educational system) if they are in a free-access information environment. I am actually more on your side than you may realise Morganite since I believe religious education has merit. Its just when I look beyond the idea, I see practical application problems and I was discussing those and offering a viable alternative.

PS - Do you need to proofread your signature line, Morganite, "do you feel to sing along" doesn't seem complete?


Val,

My signature line is good spoken English of a particular type. However, I recently changed it for another line (vide sub) so it ought not to irk further.

Thank you for your clarifications.

M