There is no good place to start on this, and really no way I could give all the necessary history. I'll do my best.

In November 2007, after 23 years of anger and hurt and being 8 months pregnant, I replied to my mother's nasty email stating:

"Well, mom, what I don't want is this. I'm sick and tired of biting my tongue and tip toeing around you as to not upset you or start anything; consider that over too. I am at a point in my life where I have other things to focus energy on and trying to work on a relationship with you has proved time and time again to be something that isn't working. I'm sorry you are unhappy in your life and your not where you'd like to be, as you tell me, but I will no longer let you make me feel bad for your decisions. I am very happy with my husband and my life, and I'm sorry that you are not happy with yours. Please respect that I think of you as an amazing grandmother whom I can't wait to share my daughters life with, but as far as having a relationship with you as a mother, I no longer wish to pursue that; let's not pretend we get along or really have a relationship in the first place. I feel sorry that you think I only contact you when I want something, but I'm more sorry that you don't ever go out of your way to contact me or come and stay with us... so be it. I truly do respect your feelings and wish nothing but happiness for you, but at this point, I'm fed up being your doormat and being made to feel sorry for you and your decisions. I look forward to seeing you at Christmas, but perhaps sharing our Christmas with the girls is something better suited for Becky's[my mother in law] house as I don't want to inconvienance you with needing to stay there. Misconstrue this as you will, but I'm taking charge of my life and my feelings and will not let my own mother make me feel bad any longer... Take care and hopefully things look up for you this holiday season. I wish you all the best."

I'm sure your thinking what an awful daughter I am to of sent such an email to my own mother. Please, for a moment, think of the anguish and pain I was suffering just to write that. My mother shot back very quickly with an email that was so nasty, and so painful to read, that it's locked away in a folder in my email, in which I never want to read again. She brought up every bad thing I'd ever done, listed every one of my faults, and threw up how my actions were so unfounded. The email cursed at me, called me foul names, and wrote me off as the worst child. I did not reply.

My mother came by my mother in law's home the night before my baby shower and dropped off gifts stating she had other plans.

I sent out an email to all family letting them know the directions to the hospital I was delivering at, and welcome them all to visit us at the hospital and at our home afterwards. My mother did not come to the first of my only child.

My mother came, with the shield of my older sister and her children, to our home a few days after I delivered, but did not speak one word to me or my spouse. She was extremely rude to my mother in law who was staying with us to help take care of the baby. She left without saying anything to us. Still, I did not respond to this.

My husband and I were both in the National Guard at this time, and on the weekends we had military duty, I would send my mother emails prior to ask if she wanted to watch the baby and visit with her while we were away. On two occassions, she agreed. When I picked up my daughter after the first visit, my mother corned me while holding my infant daughter stating that it was because of me that she had missed out on so much. This was all my fault. That she would let us stay there on those weekends so she could visit with the baby, but that my husband and I were not welcome. Still, I did not respond and just thanked her for watching the baby and left. I drove home in tears and my husband vowed to never let me go over there alone again. Note, my husband has always disliked my mother for the way she treated me and the things she said. I was not alone in my view of her. My fathers reply to my concerns was always the same, "There's a reason we're divorced."

The second visitation was met with some arguments. My mother refused to pick up my daughter from my in laws house since it was so early in the morning, but rather allowed me sister to go get my daughter and spend half the day with her, allowing my mother only a few hours to see the baby. When my husband and I went to pick her up, my husband was quick in packing her things and getting us out the door before she could say much to me. Hind site: I didn't say much to her either, as I was scared she would corner me again and a fight would ensue. Upon returning home, I was met with this email:

"I will not be seeing Evie[my daughter] in June. I am no longer going to ride this emotional roller coaster you seem to wish to control. Obviously, you have no idea of the impact your words/actions against me, have had. No Mother deserves the treatment from her daughter that I've received from you. Your idea of me being an "amazing Grandmother" to your child is not going to happen considering you don't feel you need your Mother in your life.
I didn't think my heart could hurt any further after what you'd done but knowing I won't be seeing Evie digs even deeper than I ever thought possible.
However, I won't 'schedule' visits with Evie like I'm some type of an "ex" who is allowed visitation rights from time to time. I would like for you to always tell Evie that I love her but you also must take the responsibility for explaining to Evie when she's older, why it is that her maternal Grandmother wasn't involved in her life. Just make sure you tell her the truth... the real truth. Hopefully, you'll be able to give her some solid reasons after you get past "No, she wasn't an alcoholic, No, she wasn't a drug-addict, and Yes, she always loved & cared for me...."
Maybe Evie will have a different outlook on life and more love for family and not end up cutting you out of her life.
I wish you, Evie, Dallas, Penelope, and Lillie... health, happiness and safety."

Again, I did not respond. To be honest, I never have. I never replied, I never wrote, I never called her. We haven't spoken since receipt of this email. I was okay with that. It was her decision. I never kept my child from her, nor would I ever. I wanted us to be "cordial" with one another so she could be a part of my daughters life, as much as she wanted in fact. My husband and I are in her hometown atleast once, if not twice a month and I would love for her to visit with her grandchild. I still would; to some extent. At this point, I fear my anger has taken over.

Without leaving too much out, I'll add that I have since received an seven-page handwritted letter from my mothers best friend, my older sister, again pointing out my flaws and disregard for our family. My sister, like my mother, is not capable of being happy for anyone else if they themselves are not happy. I was not surprised at the receipt of this letter, nor did I respond.

Both my mother and sister sent gifts for one of my stepdaughters birthday in August. The packages were addressed to my husband. He did not feel the need to send thank you notes.

My sister sent me a text message the day after my oldest stepdaughters birthday in October asking if her birthday was of the same date, but in November. I stated that her birthday was the previous day, but thank you for the well wishings I assume she was giving. My sister took it upon herself to send a gift and when the courier was met with an empty house upon delivery, as we'd move, I was again sent a nasty email:

"Hmmm, you move, knowing I'm going to send a gift, and don't say anything about where to ship it? Too late. Package is already in route back to Springfield. It's obvious you don't want me to have your address, and frankly I don't give a damn. But all that will do is impact the innocent children who are not able to receive gifts from me even though I had hoped to keep them out of this and enjoy buying for. Your choice. I will simply continue to document everything that your holier-than-thou self has done and posted and one day they will know the truth. Maybe this will give you some more ammo for your famous My Space page quotes that fill up my niece/nephew documentation so well. And yes, this email will go in there as well. But just when you think you've got the last laugh, you'd better think again... "

You'll note she uses the word "innocent". My sister has seen my daughter twice, and has never asked to see her again. I left three voicemails on her phone over the course of three months inquiring about visiting with her children thus allowing her to see mine, and none of my calls we returned.

My current situation is this: The weight that was lifted from my body once my mother was not around to hurt me was tremendious! I honestly do not feel she was acting out of love when would ignore me when I was speaking, put me down, put my husband and my family down, and make no means to be a family. But my mother is haunting me. In my dreams, my mother is there, in some form. The sad part is that in these dreams, I am so mad; so angry. I yell at her, I curse and scream! I am so mad at her for not wanting to be a part of my daughters life!

My husband and I discuss this topic on many occasions and we can never find the logic and reasoning in my mother. My children are all so young that they don't know who she is, nor would remember her or miss her, but to look at these beautiful little girls and not want to see them is something I will never understand.

Is there any sort of advice and help anyone may have? And PLEASE, I thank you for reading if you've made it this far. Can you imagine how long it would be if I were to go further?

First off,let me say that there is no pain greater than feeling unloved or judged by someone who should love you unconditionally. I am so sorry that both of you are feeling just that.As parents our job is to bring a child to their full level of independence. Your mom did just that. This is why you have been able to "reject" her. Through reading the correspondence that you provided,you seem rather conflicted and a bit immature. I do not understand you feeling that she was a poor mother, but would be an awesome grandmother. Why? The apple is further from the tree. Maybe you want her to be something that she is not capable of being. Without you in the picture. Or your love,is she not just a free babysitter? You are also having problems with your sister. Even siblings are raised by different parents,just by the changes that life brings. It is wrong that you moved, without telling anyone, the gift was just an excuse for your sister to express her hurt. It also seems to me ,that there is far too much of your communication happening via e-mail. E- mail does not let you here the quiver in a voice, or let you see tears that accompany anger or hurt.If you feel "haunted" now,what if something happens to any one of you?When your beautiful children are older,you will worry more than you now do. I am sure that you will want the "whole village" to help you raise them and keep them safe. The things your mom said were hurtful and spiteful. Unfortunately, I think the hardest part of growing up,is when you realize that your parents are not your heroes. Will your children be able to hold you up as the best parent ever? Not if you are not capable of showing forgiveness and strength to your own mother. I will pray for the both of you to soften your hearts, and your pride. God bless all of you.

First off,let me say that there is no pain greater than feeling unloved or judged by someone who should love you unconditionally. I am so sorry that both of you are feeling just that.As parents our job is to bring a child to their full level of independence. Your mom did just that. This is why you have been able to "reject" her. Through reading the correspondence that you provided,you seem rather conflicted and a bit immature. I do not understand you feeling that she was a poor mother, but would be an awesome grandmother. Why? The apple is further from the tree. Maybe you want her to be something that she is not capable of being. Without you in the picture. or your love,is she not just a free babysitter? You are also having problems with your sister. Even siblings are raised by differant parents,just by the changes that life brings. It is wrong that you moved, without telling anyone, the gift was just an excuse for your sister to express her hurt. It also seems to me ,that there is far too much of your communication happening via e-mail. E- mail does not let you here the quiver in a voice, or let you see tears that accompany anger or hurt.If you feel "haunted" now,what if something happens to any one of you?When your beautiful children are older,you will worry more than you now do. I am sure that you will want the "whole village" to help you raise them and keep them safe. The things your mom said were hurtful and spiteful. Unfortunately, I think the hardest part of growing up,is when you realize that your parents are not your heroes. Will your children be able to hold you up as the best parent ever? Not if you are not capable of showing forgiveness and strength to your own mother. I will pray for the both of you to soften your hearts, and your pride. God bless all of you.

I appreciate your response, and while I don't agree with a few portions, I also know you don't know the entirety of story, so I let those feelings I have to be put aside. But your right, we are both very hurt in this situation, and even stubborn I think. I wonder why she hasn't called me, but I think perhaps she wonders the same. I would guess that over a hundred times I week I think of calling her to ask if she wants to see my daughter; on no occasion would I consider her a babysitter. When I offered the chances for her to see my daughter while I was away, it was just that: To see her. I had a baby sitter to watch my daughter, but chose to allow my mother the opportunity to visit with her before I left her with a sitter.

Sadly, my mother was never my hero. Instead, she was the anti hero. She had sex with a man with me in the room when I was 9. She moved away to another state and left me in the care of my step father when I was 11, in which he didn't want me so I chose to go live with my father. When I was 13, my mother decided she was going to try and kill herself. I drug her limp body around our kitchen at midnight on a school night thinking that if I kept her "awake" and "talking" that she would make it till the paramedics arrived. She did, and they did and upon her return home after her stay in the hospital, she told me if I ever brought up the siutation again, she would beat me till I was near my own death. I never did.

It's these things that I am met with when I think of calling my mother and asking if she wants to visit with my baby. I have yet to pick up the phone.

Dalliesgrrl. You did nothing wrong, absolutely nothing. I don't know the whole story, but I'm sure that the first email that you sent wasn't easy to send. Your mother must have hurt you badly in order for you to take that step, because from reading the rest of your post, I don't think you're the kind of person that does things on the spurr of the moment, or on the heals of anger.

You mother is continuing to try and hurt you, but now she's using your children to do it. She's acting like a child, and the best thing you can do is to keep ignoring her and her nasty behavior.

I know that you wish that she would be a part of your daughters life, but that will never happen unless you are willing to put up with the abuse. If you decide that you are willing to put up with it realize that she will always make you pay for this, always. I don't think you want or need that.

It's sad that some people just want to hurt others, but there are people like that in this world.

My advice, forget about her and your sister. I know it's hard, I know you feel haunted by this, but I really think that's the only thing you can do.

You will never have the relationship that you want, it takes two to make that work, and your mother and your sister just aren't willing.

I'm so sorry that you're so hurt by all of this. Love your children, and your husband, they're your family. Don't let this effect them or you.

I wish you all the best. Keep your chin up.

I started reading this thinking I would never make it through, but I actually found it interesting. I honestly believe your sister and mother do want to be a part of your life but are stating it in a VERY immature hurtful way. The fact that you are mature about the whole situation is admirable, a lot of people, myself included, would not be able to read such ridiculing emails without replying being just as rude. But not talking to them at all is definitely not right, its better to talk with them about why they are being so negative and rude towards you then to ignore them completely. You will not be able to live a happy life having your sister and mother hold a grudge against you, and same for you against them. You will hold a very heavy heart and guilt until you work things out with them my dear. I totally understand that you want what's best for your family and husband and they are your family now. If you don't get along with your mother and sister, you need to look past it, at least for holidays or the times your children will spend time with them. Your children will learn from your example, and you hold a heavy heart and hatred towards your family, which they will learn too... you don't want that! But I can understand why you don't want them in your life too. Maybe you and your mother and sister don't get along, but maybe they have a lot of love to give to your children, don't be selfish about it. No matter how bad our families are, its impossible to completely cut them out of our lives. And if we do, we will have a lot of pent up anger, hatred and sadness because of it.

I started reading this thinking I would never make it through, but I actually found it interesting. I honestly believe your sister and mother do want to be a part of your life but are stating it in a VERY immature hurtful way. The fact that you are mature about the whole situation is admirable, alot of people, myself included, would not be able to read such ridiculing emails without replying back being just as rude. But not talking to them at all is definitely not right, its better to talk with them about why they are being so negative and rude towards you then to ignore them completely. You will not be able to live a happy life having your sister and mother hold a grudge against you, and same for you against them. You will hold a very heavy heart and guilt until you work things out with them my dear. I totally understand that you want whats best for your family and husband and they are your family now. If you don't get along with your mother and sister, you need to look past it, at least for holidays or the times your children will spend time with them. Your children will learn from your example, and you hold a heavy heart and hatred towards your family, which they will learn too... you don't want that! But I can understand why you don't want them in your life too. Maybe you and your mother and sister don't get along, but maybe they have alot of love to give to your children, don't be selfish about it. No matter how bad our families are, its impossible to completely cut them out of our lives. And if we do, we will have alot of pent up anger, hatred and sadness because of it.

How right you are: My heart is so heavy, and if my daughter has taught me anything, it's to love. I look at my little girl and see these big, beautiful blue eyes staring back at me. I want to teach her everything I can, and show her all the things the world has to offer. She's so smart, and funny, and silly and sweet... so sweet! She gives hugs and kisses and is just a loving little girl. I want to share her with the world, with everyone.. with my mother. But my heart... and my head... *sigh*:(

With more information.I feel even worse for you. But, I still wonder, actually even more now. How in the world could you think that the woman you described as such a deviant, would make this awesome grandmother? Why would you even think to leave your children alone with her?You also said that you wre going to "allow' her to spend time with them. Maybe the haunting you are feeling is that you have not confronted her yet,about all of these mnajor,life altering issues> If she is,as you have portrayed,absolutely,let her go. Get yourself help for the abuse and guilt you feel because of her actions.

I think it is wonderful that you have such an understanding, caring husband that cares how you feel. I understand that you feel rejected by your mom, and I do not understand how she could speak such mean words to her child. I would do ANYTHING if my children wanted me to be a part of their life, and yet the nicer I am, the worse they treat me.

It just doesn't make sense how life pans out. I do think it is very important for you to forgive your mom at least in your own mind so you can be at peace. I had those horrific dreams my whole life that you speak of, and they only lessened after I forgave my dad (even though I did not tell him since he did not ask me to forgive him). If you can try to do the right thing, as you have been doing, and just don't say anything to those nasty comments, then you've done all you can do. Maybe your example will rub off on your mom and she will lighten up.

"Lighten up" I can not comprehend advice like that. Was this a serious question, or a ruse?Myvocabulary suffers my spelling,but again I ask,Why is your mother more trusted as a Grandmother?

I can not even comprehend what you are going through.
But, as a mother myself, there is no way I would allow my child to be around someone - unsupervised - like what you have described.

You need to make a decision one way or another. If you don't want your mom and sister in your life - then make the decision and live with it. If you DO want them - then you have to work at it. And, with all the pain you have experienced - it will be baby steps. You really should get to a good place with your mom before introducing your daughter to her.

Either way - you need to get out of limbo. Make a decision and then make peace with it.

Good Luck.

"Lighten up" I can not comprehend advice like that. Was this a serious question, or a ruse?Myvocabulary suffers my spelling,but again I ask,Why is your mother more trusted as a Grandmother?

You're asking whether MY question was serious or a ruse? Because I would honestly take all the time it took writing it out, only for it to be a joke?

No, it's not a "ruse", and frankly, I don't appreciate your comment that it might be. The things my mother did to me, were just that: done to me. In the past few years, I have observed her behavior around my sister's children and she has been very loving and caring towards them, leading me to believe she would be nothing but the same with my child. She has seen my daughter twice, out of my presence, and I believe she took very good care of her and followed the guidelines I had asked of her.

My mother made many poor decisions in her life and they all affected myself, my brother, and my sister. My brother has also distanced himself from my mother and only speaks to her about 3-4 times a year and sees her once or twice every two years. My sister was born at a very young age in my mothers life, therefore, they grew up together and were more like friends then mother and daughter, hence their relationship and similar behavior now.

Has my opinion of my mother and her grandmothering abilities changed in the past few months? Yes, but that's only because concerns have arisen as to what she might say or do to my child to get back at me; that wasn't a concern when this all started around the time my daughter was born. The hostility grew from there.

So... to answer your question: Yes, I do now have concerns for my daughters safety while in my mothers care and would NOT leave her alone with her. Before this situation grew to what it has become, YES, I would have left her in her care alone as I did. I trusted her; I do not now.

I can not even comprehend what you are going through.
But, as a mother myself, there is no way I would allow my child to be around someone - unsupervised - like what you have described.

You need to make a descision one way or another. If you don't want your mom and sister in your life - then make the decision and live with it. If you DO want them - then you have to work at it. And, with all the pain you have experienced - it will be baby steps. You really should get to a good place with your mom before introducing your daughter to her.

Either way - you need to get out of limbo. Make a decision and then make peace with it.

Good Luck.

In a sense, I made up mind a long time ago when I chose to not be around her or have contact with her on a mother/daughter basis. I left the window open for her to be a part of my children's lives. Since the decision was made on my mother's part to have nothing to do with my children, I have since decided that I would not trust her alone with my children and it would a lot for her to convince me to allow her to see them at all. She would have to go beyond the extra mile to try and see them now. As of right now, she doesn't have my phone number or my home address. She would either have to contact my husband or my In Laws to get to me, and I know she has far too much pride to ever do such a thing.

There is no limbo. The problem lays within the fact that this shouldn't be happening. No child should ever be treated the way I or my siblings were, nor should any child have to speak to their mother in the manner that I found myself doing. I couldn't see a way around the way she talked to me, or my husband, or treat me, or my husband. It came to the point where I was filled with guilt and pain each time I talked to her or was around her. I left her house crying every time because of the things she would say, and I just put a stop to it. Since then, I don't have the guilt or pain anymore; the weight was lifted.

The "haunting" I have comes from the fact that this shouldn't be happening; to me or any child. No child should have to "disown" their own parent or siblings. I hate that this is happening and I'm mad mad mad that this is happening to my children and my daughter. I worry that this may all be my fault and that I "took" my daughters grandmother from her, but I know that I would have never been happy in life with how she was treating me and I would always live in the shadow she put me in.

The part that hurts the most now is that I know she would never let me forget this. She would forever hold this over my head. "Well, I better not speak my mind or you might disown me again and take my grandbabies from me"... I can hear it now. And that too, makes me mad because I know that's how it would be.

UPDATE (of sorts): My daughters first birthday was on January 23rd 2009. Without any contact since the previously mentioned emails, I sent a birthday invitation to my mother. I prefaced the invitation with this email:

"Just wanted to give you a heads up that I'm going to be sending an invitation your way for Evie's 1st Birthday Party. It's going to be on Saturday, January 24th at noon. The invitation will have the location and directions.

This invitation has no stipulations, no expectations, and is not a joke or meant to stir up any drama. We would love to have you there to share this day with Evie! "

My mother's response: "Just wanted to say that I'm putting a card in the mail tomorrow for Evie. I literally do not have any money for a gift for her right now but as soon as I do, I'll get it to Dallas' Mom or if I have enough funds, I'll send it to the address on the return label on the invitation. I do hope her day is very special for her."

After biting my tongue for SO long, I let go and replied: "It was never about a gift; it was an opportunity to be in your granddaughters life again."

And her reply, which of course, I did NOT respond to and is still left without a reply to this day: "It was sincerely never a thought that the invitation was about a gift and that's the truth. I merely wanted you to know that I wanted to get Evie a gift for her birthday and the only reason I wasn't sending one now was because I have no money whatsoever. I don't have the money to spend for gas to drive to Fayetteville because I need the gas to ensure I can get back and forth to work.
As far as it being an opportunity to be in Evie's life again, I feel there has been numerous times over the past 8-9 months whenever you've been in Springfield for drill or other trips, to have given me the opportunity be a part of Evie's life again. It's not as if you've shown any desire or attempt to mend the past between you and I.
Perhaps, you don't truly understand how badly you broke my heart or how it has cut so deep to have you feel the way about me that you do. It's cut deep every single day and if you don't think that I've thought constantly about the days/months I've missed out on the events in Evie's life, you have no clue as to the impact something like this has on a Mother's heart.
You made it clear quite some time ago that you didn't need any family other than Dallas' family and the girls in your life. Families disagree, families argue but families with 'heart', still have love for each other and are there for each other.
This is not a 'drama' email nor is it sent with the intention of debates on the past. I just wanted you to know that I want to get her a gift. Again, I do hope her birthday and party were special for her. "


I never received a card, or ratherless a gift. No contact has been made since these emails from mid January.

I'm perhaps more furious with her new "stance" then I was before. Her whole "hurt" attitude now is a joke to me. And the fact she thinks I should have gone out of my way over the 8-9 months to bring my daughter to her after it was her who told me she didn't want to see my daughter.. well, it was ridiculous. It's obvious she still doesn't get the picture and doesn't show any signs that she ever will.

Interesting tidbid: I now live 10 minutes from my mother. I was recently informed that she works as a local company that hires telemarketers. After SO many years of being so high & mighty and acting as if she was better then everyone, karma has spoke and she nows works part time as a telemarketer at nearly 60 years old.

I have to say that as a mother and a daughter who is very close to her Mom,this is just heartbreaking to fathom.

Some toxic relationships are so far beyond repair that the more you try to fix them,the worse they get.

I would rarely encourage anyone to separate from their parent as when that bond is as it should be there is nothing more beautiful.

In your case,I don't think you have been given any other option.

Clearly,this is not just going to get better.The drama and continued accusations and hurt have created too much of a mess.
The only other possible solution I can think of is family therapy,which is very costly and in this case may very well take a long time.
I 'm sorry you have had to suffer this way,but in the interest of your family and your own mental health,perhaps a clean break is the best answer.
Know that you have tried and failed.It takes more than one person to make a relationship work.

I think that what you wrote was awesome. True to your heart and soul and that you did nothing wrong absolutely nothing wrong. Even with all the guilt trips , etc... by your mother. You do have a beautiful life to look forward too and your changing for the better and if that means not being around certain people then that is what you need to do.

I have been in a certain situation with a relative and it reminds of exactly what I have been through. It is hard to deal with and let go because it is a family member at the same time you need to do what is best for you and your new family.

Even if it means cutting ties...

I understand the great relief when you finally realize that burden has been lifted, and you are in control of your own life.

I learned to accept my mother as a person. And not a very nice one. At least to me. I was in a different 'class' than my sisters were; the relationships were very different.

Having just accepted her as a person I didn't particularly care for, I was able to set my own boundaries, and not be bothered by her tricks, accusations and insinuations. I also realized that I had no control over what others bought of her stories, and while she fought to keep me the black sheep so to speak, I let all of that go and stopped defending myself to other family members.

Like you, I don't hold any grudges, I just needed to live my life without the heartache.

Putting up with it, simply because she happens to be your mother, just isn't enough.