We own a home in southern California. A single level, slab foundation built in 1960. We've had consistent problems with the laundry/kitchen sink line backing up. After several snakes and hydrojets over the years it has been determined that the pipe may be broken or collapsed somewhere toward the center of the house. The last snaking revealed dirt/mud in the pipe. We have been advised to have a camera sent in to locate the problem at the tune of $300. If it's found to be a broken pipe inside the foundation we have been told that they will have to jackhammer through the slab in order to repair the pipe This will cost upwards of $2,000. Is there any alternative to this destructive approach? The cost will be staggering and much structural damage may result. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

I don't know if you're a candidate for a reline job but let me tell you my story. 54 year old house. The builder used sub standard cast iron in the drainage. The 4" house main was completely ate up on the bottom of the pipe , blocked with roots and welling up in my living room floor. I was sure that the main had broke in two and I would have to jack hammer up the floor and tunnel under the foundation to transition to PVC, pick up the back bath and move the main outside the house but I had to know what was going on under the slab so a friend suggested running a camera down there. There was no distinct break in the main, however,it was completely ate up on the bottom. That's when Rooter Man of Sarasota and Gulf Coast Florida suggested relining the main, (see image). It took a day to clear the roots and pressure jet clean the main. Next day they came back and relined the main with epoxy. I now have a sewer main that will out last me, (50 year guarantee) and the best part is that I didn't have to, tear up my house and the cost was under half of what I figured to take the main outside around the house. Another bonus was that it was done without tearing up or disturbing my house. When they were finished I kept a piece of the epoxy liner to check it out. It was white and had the same thickness of Schedule#40 PVC.
I was amazed at the equipment RooterMan had outside my place. The equipment he had cost upwards of $100,000.00. Hi tech stuff that took a technician to run it. There were 3 men and 2 trucks to do the job. And it was completed in two days. Lottsa difference from the old days when I went out on a sewer call with a Ridged K-60 Sewer Machine and a ladder to get to the roof vent. I just wanted to point out that there's another option besides replacing drainage that the years have ruined. If your pipes are a candidate for a reline job I strongly suggest you look into it before you decide to replace the drainage pipes. I did and saved a bundle in addition to keeping my home intact. Just thought I would share that with you all. Regards, Tom

Wouldn't there be any way of rerouting the sink and laundry lines somehow and reconnecting with the outgoing sewer line so as to bypass the broken pipe altogether? Maybe this could be done outside of the foundation with trenching. Just a thought.

Wouldn't there be any way of rerouting the sink and laundry lines somehow and reconnecting with the outgoing sewer line so as to bypass the broken pipe altogether? Maybe this could be done outside of the foundation with trenching. Just a thought.

Perhaps, if the broken line hasn't any other branches draining into it. If so it will have to be replaced or relined. Good luck, Tom

I have seen where pipe relining is commonly done on the lateral line to the main sewer line but can this procedure be done to a damaged pipe under the slab?

I have seen where pipe relining is commonly done on the lateral line to the main sewer line but can this procedure be done to a damaged pipe under the slab?
You haven't read my post did you? If you had you would know that my house is on a slab just like yours. Go back and read! Tom

Paul, SpeedBall's advice is not exactly correct. You cannot reline 2" kitchen drain. And I am not even mentioning getting to it... It is another story...

Kitchen drain is the dirtiest pipe in house that clogs frequently. If washer drains to it somewhere along the way, it will cause back ups. You can control it by: have it Hydro-Jetted, then stop using Garbage Disposer, and use lots of hot water every time sink / DW is in use. Also, don't pour any greese into the drain.

Yes, depending on lay-out of your house, you could do the repair w/o breaking up your slab. Is your kitchen sink on exterior wall? Is the washer on exterior wall, too ? Can you post sketch of your house showing kitchen and all baths ?

Paul, SpeedBall's advice is not exactly correct. You cannot reline 2" kitchen drain. And I am not even mentioning getting to it... It is another story... This time it's Milo whose incorrect I just got through talking with Rooter-Man of Saeasota and he informs me that if you can get a camera through the 2" line.( and it's not broke in two), it can ,indeed, be relimed. He will need access to one end of the branch but since the asker says the plumber can send a camera through it that shouldnt be a problem and that even if the linne's broke in two they can repair the break and still reline the line. The owner informs me that the procedure's different but that relining a 2" branch in doable. Sorry Milo, I know you get a hoot out of proving me wrong but this time you should have done your home work before you jumped froggy. Tom
Paul, Relining is still a option. T.

Kitchen drain is the dirtiest pipe in house that clogs frequently. If washer drains to it somewhere along the way, it will cause back ups. You can control it by: have it Hydro-Jetted, then stop using Garbage Disposer, and use lots of hot water every time sink / DW is in use. Also, don't pour any greese into the drain.
We've had it hydro-jetted and snaked numerous times. This issue isn't controlling the backup, the issue is a possible broken pipe under the slab and seeking an alternative to jackhammering through it for repair.


Yes, depending on lay-out of your house, you could do the repair w/o breaking up your slab. Is your kitchen sink on exterior wall? Is the washer on exterior wall, too?
Yes to both questions. Both kitchen sink and washer are on the same exterior wall. What is the significance of that question? Is this a good or bad thing?

Yes, depending on lay-out of your house, you could do the repair w/o breaking up your slab. Is your kitchen sink on exterior wall? Is the washer on exterior wall, too?
Yes to both questions. Both kitchen sink and washer are on the same exterior wall. What is the significance of that question? Is this a good or bad thing?
This is a good thing for either repair, replavememt or reline. It means we can tunnel under without tearing out the cabinets and taking up the floor. What's your pleasure? Tom

Forgive my ignorance on this issue. If relining is determined to be a viable option can they go in through the clean-outs or is it solely by tunneling under the slab?

This time it's Milo whose incorrect I just got through talking with Rooter-Man of Saeasota and he informs me that if you can get a camera through the 2" line.( and it's not broke in two), it can ,indeed, be relimed. He will need access to one end of the branch but since the asker says the plumber can send a camera through it that shouldnt be a problem and that even if the linne's broke in two they can repair the break and still reline the line. The owner informs me that the procedure's different but that relining a 2" branch in doable. Sorry Milo, I know you get a hoot outta proving me wrong but this time you shoulda done your home work before ya jumped froggy. Tom
Paul, Relining is still a option. T.

Tom, some of your advices scare me. Good luck relining 2" underground kitchen drain !

If, and I say IF it could be done(cost efficiently as breaking up the slab) I wonder what the inside diameter after the reline(on a 2 inch clogged drain) would be. Would the reline still be as thick as sch 40 pvc? If so, I do believe you would have an undersized drain. But I'm open to any easy( or at least easier and more cost effective)fix. This is an interesting post. Keep them coming gentlemen.

Tom, some of your advices scare me. Good luck relining 2" underground kitchen drain ! Not my advice, Milo! I didn't think it could be done until I checked with Rooter-Man.

This is great. People used to think that man would never fly. We will be surprised by what technology will do now and in the future. Very interested to learn more about current relining tech. Just find it hard to believe it is doable in extremely clogged small drains. Could see where reline is great for broken drains, but clogged? You would most likely have to completely clear the pipe of any build-up to be able to improve the quality of the drain. And if you clear the pipe of buildup, what the point of lining it? (unless broken and leaking)

Dad:

Lining reduces internal pipe friction so waste is apt to flow freeer thus reducing future logs.

There is a big difference with say a 50 YO horizontal rusty section of cast iron and the same length of PVC. Suppose the lining reduced the friction on the order of PVC. I believe it would be less.

Still losing a pipe size with lining, this would be my concern on small drains,( makes a 2 inch drain into a 1 1/2. Agree it would work better, if they can install it in an old ci pipe that is most likely closed off half to three quarters of the way. If they had a way to clear the ci out to original inside diameter, then why install lining? Cast iron(in theory) should be good for another 50 years.

If, and i say IF it could be done(cost effeciently as breaking up the slab) i wonder what the inside diameter after the reline(on a 2 inch clogged drain) would be. Would the reline still be as thick as sch 40 pvc? If so, i do believe you would have an undersized drain. But im open to any easy( or at least easier and more cost effective)fix. This is an interesting post. Keep em coming gentlemen.

Since his kitchen sink faces ex. Wall, he can cut off drain above the plate. Cap off downward facing pipe and 45 upper stub out to the outside. Locate main drain and connect directly to the main. No concrete cutting, no pipe locating expenses, no mess all over the house, no Florida-size sink holes in the middle of the kitchen, no undermining foundations, no guess work. This way, job can be done in one day, no problem.

Btw: never seen 2" collapsed / broken pipe UNDER slab in So.California . How would that happen, gentlemen ??? Hmmm, lets think together ........

It is the Code requirement that kitchen sink must be 2" pipe. Nowadays there is a rumor going around that Code will pretty soon require 3" pipe for kitchen drain. All these pipe sizing requirements are in place for a reason. Don't you think ?

I would not recommend downsizing kitchen drain. It will only create bigger problem down the road...

Btw: never seen 2" collapsed / broken pipe UNDER slab in So.California . How would that happen, gentlemen?? Hmmm, lets think together... I want to know what makes So. California so special that pipes never break under the slab? OH I know! Along with their other silly codes, UPC made broken pipes against code. No more broken pipes in So. California.

Nowadays there is a rumor going around that Code will pretty soon require 3" pipe for kitchen drain. All these pipe sizing requirements are in place for a reason. Don't you think ? Yes,I agree that with combining the kitchen and laundry branches that it demands a 3" drain. One code addition that I go along with 100%.

I would not recommend downsizing kitchen drain. It will only create bigger problem down the road... And I agree, I offered relining as a option. Of course the best option is replacement. Regards, Tom

The house was built in 1960. Pretty sure the pipes are cast iron. The rooter guy that snaked and hydro-jetted said it could have possibly been previous owners using too much Liquid Plumber type acids. I'm no expert but this is what he told me.

Since his kitchen sink faces ex. wall, he can cut off drain above the plate. Cap off downward facing pipe and 45 upper stub out to the outside. Locate main drain and connect directly to the main. No concrete cutting, no pipe locating expenses, no mess all over the house, no Florida-size sink holes in the middle of the kitchen, no undermining foundations, no guess work. This way, job can be done in one day, no problem.

The only problem I see with this approach is not knowing what other lines drain to this damaged area. The laundry and kitchen sink would bypass it but if another source drains through that location then the damage would continue to get worse.

I went to the city to enquire about obtaining a plumbing schematic for the home so I could at least have an illustration of what's going on under the slab but they do not keep those kinds of records on file from the 60s. They gave them to the original homeowner.

Sounds like milo may have the easiest, cheapest solution to your problem. One way to check if you have other drains tying in to the damaged area( if your laundry and kitchen sink back up rather quickly) then just run a whole lot of water down all fixtures and see if they back up, or see if you get any gurgling noises in you laundry and kitchen sinks. If you don't have any problems with other fixtures, you will most likely be just fine doing as milos recommended. Good luck and let us know what you find.

Sounds like I have some of the same problems. Just wanted to know if I am getting ripped off with this sewer lining. I just had sewer back up into the finished basement. What a mess. Lost everything. Plumber ran the video ($430.00) and the clay sewer drains in my 50 year old house have pulled apart and are offset and now let roots in. He said the answer is to line the sewer with epoxy ($13,500.00). I have not checked to see how much it would cost to dig up 75 feet of my yard and ruin the landscape, bushes, sidewalk.. etc. This seems like a lot of money to line a pipe. Any thoughts from someone that has had this done?

Greg, what city are you in ?

City usually doesn't keep plumbing blueprints - if there are any at all. They will tell you where City lateral enters your property and at what depth. That's just about it...

It definitely sounds like too much. It is cheaper to excavate it and replace it with ABS pipe. These days, it is kind of slow so I am sure you can get somebody cheaper to do the work. Sewer replacement is all about excavation. The actual plumbing work will not take more than 2 hours and material will cost you about $250. I believe you could have it done for 1/3 of the cost of relining. So, look around...

Also, relining is not suitable for every situation. So be careful before you sign up...

I hate to say it, but sometimes it is cheaper to have the main sewer line preventively, and professionally, snaked 2x a year rather than replacing it.

Good luck with your project... and come back to let us know what you decided to do... Milo

I live in Normal, IL. (Central Illinois)
This happened Friday, so cleanup was the first step. The insurance adjuster recomemded checking with digging it up. Like I mentioned, my landscaping, shrubs, sidewalk, lamp post, etc. will be ruined; which will cost me a lot to replace. I will call tomorrow to get an estimate on the digging. I thought the lining was very expensive. I thought it might be a couple of thousand, but not 13.5K.
I also have to check with the town because the plumber said I am responsible to the drain outlet; which is about 25 ft into the Cul de Sac to the manhole.
I need to find out from someone that had the lining done as to how much it cost.

Milo, I should add that I have two lines going into one. The main line that cloggs will cost $12,000 and to tie the two together it will cost $13,500. I have been cleaning them out and using copper sulfate, but did not do this spring since "I thought" there was enough water since we have had so much rain, I didn't think the roots would infiltrate the line. I was wrong.
This has been a terrible experince and I do not want to go through this again.

Greg: I don't know how it works in IL. But in So.California we are allowed to excavate only to the sidewalk. So cutting sidewalk or dealing with Lamp Post doesn't apply. Small sidewalks on your property can be undermined for new pipe.

In my area, if you want to dig past sidewalk, you have to use City approved contractors who carry $10 million bond and high liability insurance. They are extremely expensive. But I think you don't need these guys...

City runs its main lateral about 6' into your property. This lateral is oversized, usually 6" in diameter. Then, it reduces to 4" main that runs into your house. You should not mess with the City's 6" lateral. Just replace from that point on.

Relining doesn't work well if your existing sewer has LOW points in it. Relining will copy these low points. So, you will have new pipe with exactly the same problem. Watch the DVD of your video inspection carefully. Maybe, you should bring it to few other professionals for second, third, opinion. Ask lots of questions. Compute their input. Act accordingly..

On the sad note: I have to confirm that once you have roots in the sewer - you will never get them out. You have to replace.

Milo,
I also should have mentioned the lamp post and the side walk are mine, not the cities. The side walk is to my front door. There is no side walk around the Cul de Sac. I hope we have the same laws here and I wouldn't have to pay the entire length if dug up.
I did watch the video and there might be some low spots. The separtions start at about 50 ft and at about 65 ft there is a lip the video camera would not pass over. The plumber said that wasn't a problem.
Sorry for not including this before.
Thanks