Hello:

I don't drink coffee. It has caffeine in it. I am opposed to drug use. I work in a coffee shop. Should I be able to refuse to serve coffee to my customers on moral grounds?

excon

Not on moral grounds, just on coffee grounds, LOL.

But anyway in my opinion I would have to say no because if this is against your beliefs then you should not be working there.

Prostitution is against my beliefs, therefore I do not work in a brothel.

You know more about most legalities than I do, but would this be more of a moral issue than political?

Just my opinion.

Sure! You can refuse to serve coffee. And the coffee shop can refuse to employee you.

At will employment allows an employeer to fire you for any reason other than discrimination against a goverment protected group.

As a side note, I like the pun of "moral grounds" :p

Hmmmm, although I have heard many in the recovery community refer to caffeine as their "drug of choice", I am unclear if it lists as an actual drug? And while you're at it excon, check the labels in your medicine cabinet since caffeine tends to wander into all kinds of pain relief and your pantry as it infiltrates all sorts of food and beverages. Doesn't that just grind you? :rolleyes: I think the caffeine lobbyists must have taken lessons from the sugar lobbyists, but now I digress!

I had the coffee at Hardee this morning, I wish someone had refused it to me

If you don't drink it. You shouldn't be pedaling it.

Hello:

I don't drink coffee. It has caffeine in it. I am opposed to drug use. I work in a coffee shop. Should I be able to refuse to serve coffee to my customers on moral grounds?

excon
Didn't I read in another thread that you have a prescription for medical marijuana?

I agree with the others, You should find another place to work, perhaps a headshop

Hello again, all:

You should forgive me. I don't work in a coffee shop, I love coffee and have been known to use a drug or two. I didn't mean to deceive. I posed the question the way I did, to find out whether you thought someone (anyone - a pharmacist perhaps) could refuse to serve a customer because of one's own personal beliefs. I could have asked that question, but I think I got a different response by asking the way I did.

I'm not sure how I feel about the issue. The workplace is not the place for social action. However, a company should not be required to sell a product that the owners don't want to sell - unless the state gives them a license.

The license (given to them by the people of the state), might require them to do the bidding of the people. It might not. I don't know. What should a state issued licenses do? Is a government issued license (issued in YOUR name) a grant of exclusivity? Or, does/should a license require adherence to particular set of government issued directives?

Would you support a state that granted exclusive license (meaning you can't get one) to swimming pool that won't let your kind in?

excon

Ha ha very clever excon.. LOL I thought you had lost your mind there for a second. Well.. uh never mind.;)

I have a twist to this scenario.. as an EMT I am required/committed to treating the sick and injured. However, I detest, loathe and would rather painfully kill a child molester. Now say a person I KNEW for a fact was guilty of this crime, came to me in need of medical care.. Morally could I refuse to treat him or her? Because I think child molesters should die a painful and horrible death?hmmmmmm

I believe the decision about where to work before you accept the job is where the "social action" conscience should take place much like it should before you spend the money buying a product or before you decide to be involved with something. After the fact hits me as self-centered and prompts me to hand out dog-earred copies of Thoreau's Civil Disobedience. LOL :p

I don't know how it would work over there but over here (UK) a military type (can't remember which dept. :confused: ) refused to do a 3rd tour in Iraq as it was against his morals. The Court Martial did not agree :rolleyes:

Good point, but grounds for dismissal.

Is this a good example of winning the fight but losing the war?

If anyone wants to make a statement of their moral beliefs and values, they might not want to use their jobs as a vehicle to this end. It may be financially implausable.
Don't we all get paid to do things we'd rather NOT do? Is this a major stressor?

grounds for dismissal.


LOL Were those decaf or regular grounds? :p
If that wasn't intended, it's even funnier! :D

(sorry, I tried to comment on your post but I am fresh out of rep power)

Coffee is not a state-regulated substance, so while your individual action of refusing to serve coffee for the reasons cited would be legal, the coffee shop of course could choose to dismiss you since you are unable to perform the basic function of the job.

An EMT - like Stormy - is licensed by the state and legally bound to do their job competently. Refusing to do so would be illegal, and could lead to legal actions against the individual, the ambulance company, and perhaps the state.


The seperation comes by the legal responibilities of the job...

In one case, you get fired.
In the other case, you go to jail.

:cool:

I believe the decision about where to work before you accept the job is where the "social action" conscience should take place much like it should before you spend the money buying a product or before you decide to be involved with something. After the fact hits me as self-centered and prompts me to hand out dog-earred copies of Thoreau's Civil Disobedience. (http://http://thoreau.eserver.org/civil.html) LOL :p

So for Thoreau's Civil Disobedience your sending us to Bill Gates? :eek:

Grounds are decaf.:o

That is not true in stormy's case.
She only has to take care of him on the job if he needs it not off the job.
The state of Wyoming has the good samartian law.
So as an emt you are not required to stop and help if he is in trouble on the side of the road or his house.
You only have to take care of him while on the job.

If you can't put your personal feelings aside and do your job then your fired plain and simple.

So for Thoreau's Civil Disobedience your sending us to Bill Gates? :eek:

Grounds are decaf.:o

Hmmmm I don't know what happened with that link :confused:
So sorry!

(... shrugs)

So you are saying if you owned your own pharmacy, should you be required to sell all medications. Such as birth control if you do not believe in it. Refusal to sell something because of your beliefs, (something legal of course)
In a business that sells those products is no different than a certain religion or government pushing their belief system on you. The big question is where is the line drawn between asserting our rights versus infringing on others rights.

In a free society where we might not want to risk using our jobs for moral statements, we certainly can use the businesses we own for statements. In a capitalist society, it is the right of a business owner to conduct business any way they wish, as long as its within the law of the land. It is the built-in capitalist-based protection of economic survival of the fiittest that prevents a businesses imposing unwanted or unsupported personal views on their customers simply because those customers can either take their trade to the competition or create competition should none or the right kind exist. :p

Where it gets sticky is when business grows to the size of non-competition or when government gets involved and tilts that playing field. It is for this reason that I feel we should be as wise in spending our dollars (since its essentially a vote for whoever you are buying from) as we are in selecting where we work. Its all connected so its good to look closer at what each of us is actually involved in to ensure its what we want. I call that mindful living and it seems too many around me are sleep walking instead! :eek:

Raises my cup of coffee to the interesting thread excon started - cheers!

So you are saying if you owned your own pharmacy, should you be required to sell all medications. Such as birth control if you do not believe in it. Refusal to sell something because of your beliefs, (something legal of course)
in a business that sells those products is no different than a certain religion or government pushing their belief system on you. The big question is where is the line drawn between asserting our rights versus infringing on others rights.

I can't quite make that leap in logic from the original question.

If you OWN a pharmacy--as you stated--and you don't want to sell certain drugs, there's no one there to fire you. Of course, if market demands something you won't sell, you may not be in business long.

If you just WORK for a pharmacy and you refuse to sell the products that the owner wants you to sell, you're fired.

This is the correct answer.


I can't quite make that leap in logic from the original question.

If you OWN a pharmacy--as you stated--and you don't want to sell certain drugs, there's no one there to fire you. Of course, if market demands something you won't sell, you may not be in business long.

If you just WORK for a pharmacy and you refuse to sell the products that the owner wants you to sell, you're fired.

Hello:

I don't drink coffee. It has caffeine in it. I am opposed to drug use. I work in a coffee shop. Should I be able to refuse to serve coffee to my customers on moral grounds?

excon

Gosh, I don't drink coffee either, quit 13 years ago. But, I drink fruit tea, take Midol and other over-the counter meds - and they all have caffeine in them. I also hope you don't eat chocolate either, it has a drug in it that makes you high if you eat 100 bars at one sitting. The bittersweet is the strongest.

I hope it's not a religious thing because you are still inhaling the vapors.


http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_2_121v.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZN)
So, in essence, I guess we sometimes keep or morals to ourselves, especially if we want to keep our jobs. It's all in our choices.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_19.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZN) http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZN) http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_9_1.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZN)

Can I invite all to my house to continue this debate, please..

Please place your order for beverages when you RSVP.

I just l o v e it!


Enjoyed spending time and reading from all of you on this thread.


This one would take days of joy and laughter in a 'coffee shop' in Amsterdam, Holland...

Im sorry, the post is actually quite humourous. In the same way as someone who hates kids working at a play ground would be humourous, I think you should keep your job, and refuse people the sale of coffee. Just for the sake of it. I think you should also buy up the worlds supply off coffee, and then, burn it all in front of people doing an anti coffee dance. Again, just because.

Your post made me smile, I owe you a drink. ;)

Pass the pint

Also, if we didn't have coffee, we wouldn't have the "coffee mug".

And I love mugs. They are the perfect drinking utensil.

Indirectly you don't like mugs. That makes me :(

Also, if we didnt have coffee, we wouldn't have the "coffee mug".

And i love mugs. They are the perfect drinking utensil.

Indirectly you dont like mugs. That makes me :(

Got a question... Does anyone know where the name 'mug' for coffee mug came from? If this came from a copy-cat that switched from beer to coffee, then that's cheating. Not very original at all...

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Is this a sign of lack of... or too much?

Haven't got a clue where the word comes from, however, I like to think it was invented when coffee was, so I can be :( at excon not liking them, and be morally upset at his morals.

Interesting mug fact.

A mug or coffee mug, sometimes called a beaker in Britain, is a sturdily built type of ceramic cup often used for hot beverages, such as coffee, tea, and hot chocolate. The mug is usually used in less formal settings. In polite society, a tea cup is the preferred method of serving tea and sometimes coffee (then called a coffee cup). Mugs are usually made of porcelain (china) but some are made of Pyrex and some (usually intended for campers) are made of plastic.


Cool. :eek:

I think this calls for a poll about how many of us drink out of mugs as opposed to cups? LOL

Main Entry: 1mug
Pronunciation: 'm&g
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
1 : a cylindrical drinking cup
To a : the face or mouth of a person b : GRIMACE c : MUG SHOT
3 a chiefly British (1) : FOOL, BLOCKHEAD (2) : a person easily deceived b : PUNK, THUG
- mug·ful noun

Courtesy of www.m-w.com

Gotha, ndx. What type of mugs do you collect?

I favor Garfield, and those that used to anger my boss at work.

I also have mugs of the entire Zodiak in cobalt blue with gold lettering.

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I like those big mugs, those really big mugs. REALLY big ones, the ones that could "look like breasts if they had nipples on".

The pokadot ones are my favourite. They are a pleasure to drink from.

I also like mugs with big handles. A mug has to feel good in your hands, and not dribble when you go to sip.

I don't like cups.

Do you like cups chery?

I like those big mugs, those really big mugs. REALLY big ones, the ones that could "look like breasts if they had nipples on".

The pokadot ones are my favourite. They are a pleasure to drink from.

I also like mugs with big handles. A mug has to feel good in your hands, and not dribble when you go to sip.

I dont like cups.

Do you like cups chery? I don't use them much, but I collected cups a long time ago in Japan. I have some rare demi-cups with tortoiseshell inside them. Am saving them to pass on to my daughter. The other cups I collect have to have a special style to them to get my interest. Nothing 'plain' for me.

I like big cups and I can not lie... Wait how did we get off topic and on to mugs> LOL

Im sorry, I think it was my fault ¬_¬

Big thick mugs so the coffee stays hotter longer. Especially the ones with those good morning happy sayings on them

[QUOTE=excon]Hello:

I don't drink coffee. It has caffeine in it. I am opposed to drug use. I work in a coffee shop. Should I be able to refuse to serve coffee to my customers on moral grounds?

Stop your complaining and find a new job that does not interfere with any of your beliefs.

Hello:

I don't drink coffee. It has caffeine in it. I am opposed to drug use. I work in a coffee shop. Should I be able to refuse to serve coffee to my customers on moral grounds?

excon
I have an idea. Become a coffee gourmet! Taste any coffee with fantastic taste and you will be the best worker of this shop. I advise to taste Javaberry. Drinking of it is seventh heaven. Complete taste and flavor, complete aftertaste. Taste it and you will change your opinion about coffee. Just taste.

Re: etymology...

my dictionary tells me:-... probably from scandinavian; compare Swedish "mugge" = pitcher with a handle.

Incidentally, I can't get hold of strong Brazilian (my personal favourite) round this part of the UK so I have to settle for Columbian. (I promise on the next trip to the supermarket that I will get some Java and give it a try )

Hello:

I don't drink coffee. It has caffeine in it. I am opposed to drug use. I work in a coffee shop. Should I be able to refuse to serve coffee to my customers on moral grounds?

excon
Not in my coffee shop! You would be looking for another job the first time you refuse to sell coffee. The same goes in a pharmacy, Do the job you were hired for or get out!!

As the other experts answered your boss could can you OR if your boss runs a coffee shop and chooses not to serve on his menue a double crapachino frappé then he is in his right as the employer not to have it on the menu and the State would have no business mandating that he must .

I know this is an old thread, but it was interesting.

It's obvious if you work for the coffee shop, you must serve coffee or be canned. Likewise, if you own the coffee shop you can choose not to serve anything at all if that floats your boat. My grocer is not obliged to carry my favorite brand of raisin/cinnamon bread.

But a pharmacy is a branch of the health care industry and I think that changes things a bit. Plus, there is the question of selling something like contraception to some people but not others. Can they do that? What if they refused to carry a blood pressure medication or any statins? It seems to me that they could make a case for not having certain things in stock, but it would be harder for them to give the same drug to some customers but not others.

Nowadays, I guess, this doesn't matter as much since you can order everything online...

Hello again, asking:

The key is that you don't have to be licensed by the state to distribute coffee. If you did, I'm certain your license would dictate the terms of its issuance. Otherwise, why would the state have an interest?

Well, in terms of coffee, they wouldn't. However, in terms of medications, they certainly do. Now, I don't know if any state requires its pharmacists to dispense any and ALL drugs that his customers have prescriptions for, but they certainly SHOULD.

excon

"Should" is such a useful word! Of course, I agree.

Not sure what a pharmacy license says. But I'm guessing it has more to do with the interaction between doctors and pharmacists, controlled substances, purity and source of the drugs, and that sort of thing.

"Should" is such a useful word! Of course, i agree.Hello again, asking:

Me too. I have a prescription for marijuana. I'd MUCH rather buy it from Walgreens than the dealer on my streetcorner. But, that's another thread.

excon

Well, you COULD buy it from Walgreens, as Marinol.

Hello again, asking:

Yeah, but that doesn't get you high. What? I'm not allowed to enjoy my prescription?

excon

Hello:

I don't drink coffee. It has caffeine in it. I am opposed to drug use. I work in a coffee shop. Should I be able to refuse to serve coffee to my customers on moral grounds?

Excon


How about this:

I don't drink beer. It has alcohol in it. I am opposed to alcohol use. I work in a bar or liquor store. Should I be able to refuse to serve alcohol to my customers on moral grounds?


Or this:






Spitzer's Abortion 'Wrongs' - February 1, 2008 - The New York Sun (http://www.nysun.com/new-york/spitzers-abortion-wrongs/70616/)


The Spitzer bill S.5829 is euphemistically called the Reproductive Health and Privacy Protection Act. It would raise abortion to the level of a fundamental right, like the freedom of speech, and would therefore prohibit virtually any restrictions at all. According to an urgent "news & action update" released by the New York State Catholic Conference and distributed at all masses last week, the act would force doctors to perform abortions; force Catholic hospitals to perform abortions; force health care insurance plans to cover them; force employers to purchase abortion coverage; authorize non physicians to perform abortions, and undermine parental involvement in the life decisions of their children.