So this is very controversial in California right now, where I am from, and I was wondering what everyone thinks about the subject. People are being crazy over this prop right now.

I am totally against banning gay marriage. I think that to say that it is a violation of rights and privileges to allow it is riduculous. I know it is against some religions and a lot of people are extremely against it, but how does it hurt you? This is not forcing churches to marry gays, it is not forcing teachers to teach it in schools (most people I have talked to say that they learned about marriage from their parents and not from their school and I am in college). So, really, how does it hurt you if you a gay couple gets married and you don't ever have to meet them or deal with them at all?

I am asking because I have seen people go to disgusting lengths, on both sides of the issue, to make their point and I see no need for it. Those for the ban are saying its against their religion, well then don't pawn your religion off on those of us who don't want it! Not to mention people for the ban have said some truly sick things that I would rather not repeat. And recently at my school those against it made a swastika sign out of the Yes on Prop 8! Signs on campus, this is very sick.

So why be so against it if it has nothing to do with you? And if you are for it that's fine, just don't do horrible things like what happened on my campus.

I agree wit you
I lived in a large city when I was growing up and now I live out in the country

And it was rarely seen but out of no were it seemed like evey one I knew was gay!

It scared me a little!


But I mean what ever they want to do with there life is fine!

I just don't like how they are trying to make others things its good for every one

I don't live in California, but I also find intolerance is very repulsive. I think that banning gay marriage is Un-Constitutional.
I don't know why people think they have the right to deny happiness to a person just because they are homosexual! I think people just fear what they don't understand, and they lash out in any way possible.

I think people just fear what they don't understand, and they lash out in any way possible.

Well said! I think so too. Plus people interpret the bible in whatever way they want pretty much and I think this is one of those. But whatever happened to separation of church and state? This is another issue I get really heated on, best not to even get me started. Lol

If you want to outlaw a practice that is detrimental to heterosexual marriage, outlaw divorce. My heart goes out to the gay men and women of California and the other two states that denied them this fundamental right in this election. :(

Marriage: Between a Man and Woman.
Period.

I'm sure Geoffry Dahmer would be crying descrimination, if her were still alive, that killing and eating people should be legal... I mean just because other people don't...

Pedophiles, whining that it should be legal to...

Simply using flawed reasoning and arguments will not change that.

Simply using flawed reasoning and arguments will not change that.You mean like equating gay marriage to cannibalism or pedophilia?

Here is what I don't understand about this...

It is my understanding that the Supreme Court of California ruled in favor of same sex unions. Then how can a ballot proposition overturn a supreme court decision?

I can't believe I just read Gay marriage being Compared with murdering then eating people and having sex with Under aged kids. Wondering you can't be serious.

I don't see any connection between eating people and getting married.

I have friends who got married, were declared unmarried by a California proposition. The first proposition was declared unconstitutional so they married again. Now are they still married or unmarried? They don't know. This is an unreasonable thing to do to people who are just minding their own business and trying to have a normal life.

I don't understand why some people in heterosexual marriages think that gay marriage hurts them in any way. It's like saying gays can't eat the same foods as everyone else. If gays eat apple pie, that takes away the sanctity of apple pie? If you don't have any gay friends, you aren't even going to know about it... It's intrusive to legislate this kind of thing. What next? They can't buy houses or send their kids to public schools? I have yet to see a persuasive argument.

And the hypocrisy of the Church of latter day saints promoting Prop 8 just leaves me speechless. How can they even think of presuming to tell other Americans what a normal marriage is?

1 John 4:20-21
If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

Equating one to the other was never said.

Using ".....flawed reasoning and arguments...." will not change facts.

1. Marriage: Between a Man and Woman. Period. Voters/Majority has voted. Get over it.
2. Murder is wrong and illegal.
3. Pedophilia is wrong and illegal.

The Supreme Court cannot legislate.

Equating one to the other was never said.

Using ".....flawed reasoning and arguments...." will not change facts.

1. Marriage: Between a Man and Woman. Period. Voters/Majority has voted. Get over it.
2. Murder is wrong and illegal.
3. Pedophilia is wrong and illegal.

The Supreme Court cannot legislate.

You are grouping same-sex marriage with murder and pedophila, thus equating them... and what difference does it make if a gay couple get married. No one is going to force you to marry someone of the same sex so you need to get over it. What other people do should not affect you. I'm sorry to be rude but your point of view is ridiculous grouping same-sex marriage with murder and pedophilia.

Equating one to the other was never said.

Using ".....flawed reasoning and arguments...." will not change facts.

1. Marriage: Between a Man and Woman. Period. Voters/Majority has voted. Get over it.
2. Murder is wrong and illegal.
3. Pedophilia is wrong and illegal.

The Supreme Court cannot legislate.

Your missing something or we are.

Murder hurts someone else because the murdered victim doesn't give their consent.
Pedophilia hurts someone else because children are deemed unable to give their consent.

Gay marriage is contract between to people and the government that allows two consenting adults to get certain benefits that they would otherwise not get.

How does those two people getting those benefits hurt someone else physically?

Remember that banning gay marriage doesn't prevent these two people from being together so you can't use that argument that you don't want to have to see it because banning gay marriage won't prevent that or encourage it.


Personally I think the government should get out of marriage completely. It's none of their business. Any rights that are defined through marriage should be separated out and defined and be able to be assigned to who ever you want.

This is ridiculous, I think if you are happy you should be able to get married, whether it be man with man or woman with woman. There are so many more important things to worry about in this world right now then to worry about this.

It is funny because I know so many people who are gay and lesbian who are very happy and do not fight nerly as much as a man and woman would fight.

I think that they should just let people marry who they would like.

the lowering of moral values in any nation lowers it. The fact in trying to explain to young children why bob and ted are kissing in public, violates my rights, why should I have to worry about the values of my child because of the lack of values in others.

This is the issue, the church should not even have to take a stand on gay marriage, it should be addressing its moral issue gay behavior in general. That is what the church is against. You still love the person but dislike the sin. Jesus loved everyone but he also told the sinner to go and sin no more.
The Church has lost the main battle, in allowing gay relationships to start with, So now they are fighting for the last public stand it can, marriage.

So at this point it is no issue, the Church lost, since public gay relationships are allowed, the Church is defeated by a immoral nation. Marriage is merely the legal staus of what has already happened.

Your missing something or we are.
Personally I think the government should get out of marriage completely. It's none of their business. Any rights that are defined through marriage should be separated out and defined and be able to be assigned to who ever you want.


I agree. Marriage as a sanctified connection is a religious concept and it's not appropriate for the state to be involved. Likewise, the legal contract aspects of marriage are civil matters, not the provence of churches. There are two different things intermixed here, left over from when Churches governed.

The fact in trying to explain to young children why bob and ted are kissing in public, violates my rightsJust wondering.. what right are those?

i agree. Marriage as a sanctified connection is a religious concept and it's not appropriate for the state to be involved. Likewise, the legal contract aspects of marriage are civil matters, not the provence of churches. There are two different things intermixed here, left over from when Churches governed.I agree with asking here and I've said it before. I support the civil union of same-sex partners in order to get equal benefits but you can't force the churches to marry them within their institution - they are too caught up in 2000 years of history to change their ways, I have no problem with having each individual church/denomination rule on whether they will perform marriages on same-sex couples. Hey even I'm fair on that one! :)

the lowering of moral values in any nation lowers it. The fact in trying to explain to young children why bob and ted are kissing in public, violates my rights, why should I have to worry about the values of my child because of the lack of values in others.


What's to explain? Men and women sometimes kiss in public too. How do you normally explain that? You can use the same words. I'm not convinced it's necessary to explain. If a child asks a specific question, answer it. Otherwise, it's not an issue.

Anyway, legislating against marriage has no effect on whether two men kiss each other. They are legally entitled to do it whether they are married or not and even though you don't like it. I don't think people should make out in public, but that's more a matter of taste. And I certainly wouldn't limit that to gays.

Also, we all have to worry about the values of our children because of the lack of our own values in others. For example, I value tolerance for others, while you don't. Your values conflict with mine and to the extent that my children are exposed to people with your values, that's a problem for me. I also value the idea of one sexual partner at a time. But many other people don't. It would not occur to me to try to pass a law that would make it a crime to sleep with more than one person at a time even though it conflicts with my values and the values I want my children to have.

Fr_chuck,

I know a lot of americans don't understand this but you do not have right to not be offended.

the lowering of moral values in any nation lowers it. The fact in trying to explain to young children why bob and ted are kissing in public, violates my rights, why should I have to worry about the values of my child because of the lack of values in others.

This is the issue, the church should not even have to take a stand on gay marriage, it should be addressing its moral issue gay behavior in general. That is what the church is against. You still love the person but dislike the sin. Jesus loved everyone but he also told the sinner to go and sin no more.
The Church has lost the main battle, in allowing gay relationships to start with, So now they are fighting for the last public stand it can, marriage.

So at this point it is no issue, the Church lost, since public gay relationships are allowed, the Church is defeated by a immoral nation. Marriage is merely the legal staus of what has already happened.

Chuck - You have by far answered this question with one of the BEST answers I have ever read about this particular topic. I applaud you and your Christian values. I agree with your answer 100%. The moral issue is what matters here. Any nation that lowers their moral standards won't be around very long. Just look at Ancient Rome for a really good example.

Morals had nothing to do with fall of ancient Rome in fact when ancient Rome failed it had just gone to a major shift to Christianity.

We all agree that some things are immoral--killing other people, stealing, hurting dogs or children, for example.

But we do not all agree that being gay is immoral. I happen to think that discrimination against homosexuals is immoral. What about my "right" to not have my sense of morality transgressed? Is not my morality as good as another person's? Morality is a consensus view of what is wrong. But there is no consensus on this issue.

Our difference seems ironic to me, since Fr. Chuck and I tend to agree on so many things that are personal, suggesting that our values are in many ways similar.

It seems like there is always going to be people who want to tell other people how to live their life... WHO AM I OR WHO ARE YOU to tell two people who love each other that what they want is wrong?? I am a hetrosexual married women and I feel if I have that right everyone in this here so called FREE america should have the same right or else we are discrimanating against gay people. They are not asking to bed your wife or daughter son or husband they simply want what we all want... EQUAL RIGHTS to marry who they want... people can argue and fight over this all they want... just like they did over giving women the right to vote, letting women in the military, abolishing slavery, gays in the military and you know what?? It will happen marriage is a legal binding contract between 2 people there- in lies the major word you should keep in mind LEGAL it is not a religious act to all people... so lets keep God out of it, we all are entitled to the same LEGAL contracts no matter whar sex we happen to be... what is everyone afraid of??

Well, on the upside: if two dudes get divorced, a guy will finally get to keep the house!

Just a little levity, put away your torches and pitchforks...

I know lots of guys who ended up with the house. Always the retirement account, and often the house too, but not the kids--too much work. When you can think of jokes where women as a group aren't the butt of your humor, I'll put away my pitchfork. :)

Here is what I don't understand about this...

It is my understanding that the Supreme Court of California ruled in favor of same sex unions. Then how can a ballot proposition overturn a supreme court decision?

Was the ballot initiative to amend the state constitution? If so, and if the state Supreme Court relied on the state constitution (as opposed to, say, U.S. Const. bill of rights & 14th amend protection), then an amendment to the state constitution would over-rule the case.

You are correct Alder the ballot initiative was to amend the state constitution.

My two cents...

Marriage is too intermingled with religion, and I don't even know how we can begin to untie this messy knot we've made of it.

There are two sides to this coin- civil marriage and religious marriage. People fail to separate the two, and automatically associate marriage with religion and assume gay people are trying to change religious morals- we are not. We are looking for the legal protections granted through civil marriage. That's all. If our church will perform a religious ceremony for us, great. If not, fine. We do not seek to change religion or alter the fabric of our society- we simply want the ability to fully participate in it.

Separate is not equal. We've learned this before... it's not a difficult concept.

Similar arguments that are being used against us today were used to condemn interracial marriage not too long ago- that it wasn't "natural", that it was "immoral", and that it would lead to the downfall of our society. The Bible was used to condemn interracial marriages, much as it is used to condemn homosexuality and homosexual unions- through obscure passages that can be interpreted (or misinterpreted) in a number of ways-

For example:

Genesis 28:1: "And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan."

Anti-miscegenationists typically interpret this verse after assuming that the Hebrews and Canaanites were of different races. Thus inter-marriage was forbidden on racial grounds.

If you want to see more examples, check out this link: Interracial marriage in the Bible (http://www.religioustolerance.org/marracbib.htm)

Again, it is not my desire to alter religious beliefs regarding homosexuality. It is my hope that those who hate us or condemn us will someday realize that their beliefs about us are inaccurate and misguided- but if that is their belief, they are free to hold it so long as their doing so does not impede upon my ability to live my own life.

What bothers me most is that those who are Pro Prop 8 are now saying that the people have spoken and that we should just go along with the "will of the majority"- My rights, my freedom, my equality should not be put up for a vote among people who have been seriously misinformed and lied to about the potential negative repercussions of me being able to marry the person I love.

No vote won by a slim minority of people should be able to strip me of my rights and freedoms- These are things I should not have to fight for, hope for, pray for, dream about having... I have rights and equality not on the grounds of an approving majority, but because I am an American.

I think it is a major problem that this was allowed to be put up for a vote in the first place. It should have been fought on that level, it should have been kept off the ballot- and maybe we wouldn't have gotten to this point.

In any case, you cannot give rights to people who have been fighting for them for years, and then take those rights away and expect them to hang their heads and walk away silently. We will fight until we win- and we will win. Those who are fighting against us are fighting to defend their irrational fears- we are fighting to defend our dignity. We will not back down, we will not give up, we will not be silent.

I haven't checked this site for about a week or so now but I love that this question is getting such a huge amount of posts. Thanks to all of you that were not stupid and ignorant enough to compare gay marriage to cannibalism or something ridiculous like that. That guy makes no sense! It's all consenting adults loving each other, why should you care if it's a man and a woman or two men or two women? So far no one AT ALL has been able to give me a logical answer as to why that harms them in anyway or why it should not be OK. Not one person!

MARRIAGE: Between a man and woman. Always has been.

MATHEMATICS: 2 + 2 = 4. Always has been.

SCIENCE: Gravity is real and makes apples hit the ground. Always has been.

The above is not to say that "gay marriage" is just like mathematics and science. It simply states facts.

The flawed logic of people to try to make everything seem "right" just because they want to promote their "flawed" position is typical of desperate people... or to take factual statements and think that just because they are mentioned in the same post...

African Americans: Slaves for white farmers. Always has been. It simply states the facts. If we lived in America in the 1860s

Life is what we make of it and your hate for a group of people shouldn't affect how they live or whether they get equal rights.

Our goal is to make every generation better than the one before and only by increased freedom and equality can we make that happen.

So I'm guessing you prefer (and find it more acceptable for some reason) for men "as a group" to be the butt of the jokes...

Kindj, You are guessing wrong. I don't advocate putting people down for what they are.

In fact, I'm not aware of any words that refer disparagingly to all men. There are such words for women, blacks, asians, gays, etc. When men are insulted, it is as individuals.

People should have the right to do what they want, as long as it isn't illegal, and marry who they want as long as they are of legal age.

Everyone is entiled to be happy and just like love is color blind why does it matter the gender of the person that person loves and want to marry? Is it really hurting everybody, no. Is it offending you? Well it shouldn't! I get more offended when I am walking down the street with my daughter and see some guy with their pants pulled down to where I see their underwears or some female butt is showing, and when I see those thing I simply look the other way.

There are so many other, bigger things, to worry about instead of this. The church I go to we welcome all and one of the pastor is a lesbian and she is good and her and her partner been together for 11 years and is married and adopted 3 kids. Everything is going great with them and they kids are fine.

To add, Wondering I think most of your views are sick. In your post on the 1st page I meant to disagree instead of agree. Your examples to this topic is very off the wall and maybe you should think before you write but after reading your other posts it seems that you have a twisted mind about other things as well.

People should have the right to do what they want, as long as it isn't illegal, and marry who they want as long as they are of legal age.

Everyone is entiled to be happy and just like love is color blind why does it matter the gender of the person that person loves and want to marry? Is it really hurting everybody, no. Is it offending you? Well it shouldn't! I get more offended when I am walking down the street with my daughter and see some guy with their pants pulled down to where I see their underwears or some female butt is showing, and when I see those thing I simply look the other way.

There are so many other, bigger things, to worry about instead of this. The church I go to we welcome all and one of the pastor is a lesbian and she is good and her and her partner been together for 11 years and is married and adopted 3 kids. Everything is going great with them and they kids are fine.

To add, Wondering I think most of your views are sick. In your post on the 1st page I meant to disagree instead of agree. Your examples to this topic is very off the wall and maybe you should think before you write but after reading your other posts it seems that you have a twisted mind about other things as well.

I think this answer is amazing! And I especially agree with the fact that Wondering is a sick person and we could do with less sick people polluting our world.

I agree that there are many offensive things in this world that deserve the attention that the ban on gay marriage is getting, our battles are misplaced!

Marriage itself is based on a religious concept.

Homosexuals are not acceptable according to the Bible and other religious texts.

So to allow homosexuals to marry would be an oxymoron, is how I think people view it.

Yet this is a modern world. We are always changing, religions and laws and governments.

There are many many passages in the Bible about other issues that we choose to look past to fit into society now (such as stoning daughters, wearing one's hair a certain way, etc.). So why can't we look past this issue as well? If we are going to follow the Bible in saying that homosexuals are wrong, we cannot be selective in choosing those passages and overlooking others.

Gay marriage shouldn't be banned for the simple logic that we cannot live in the past and must adapt to present situations just as we have always done. Of course things aren't the same as they were in the past when homosexual couples were very uncommonly seen.

The only reason is bothers anyone now is because they grew up believing it to be wrong. No one would have any issues with their children seeing that if they didn't have it ingrained in them now to think it's wrong. It is normal now. It bothers people because it takes them out of their comfort zones from when they were children, and god forbid that happen.
Doesn't this seem like the civil rights movement? Because it is EXACTLY like it. Would any of you say now that black people should not have the same rights as white people? No you certainly would not. But if you had lived over 60 years ago I am almost sure most of you would agree with your parents and society at the time and say that they shouldn't have rights.

It's so ignorant. You have to actually THINK and look PAST everything you've been taught, to question your previous beliefs and perceptions and think for yourself.

If gay marriage offends you, suck it up and mind your own business.

There is another thread about this subject in current event.
www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/gay-marriage-279582.html

I agree with the gay marriage ban 100%. And that's not intolerant at all. Marriage is and will always be defined as a Union between one Man and one Woman, period. That's it there's no discussion or debate on what it is. The only debate is what is trying to be done to change it. We can talk in great length about what is being done to the moral fabric of the country, the damage homosexuals do to the poor children that's subjected to their perverse lifestyle. However with all that said if you want a civil union have at it, keep it in your homes and away from the eyes of children, and you should have the right to live how you want in your own home. Just don't ask to overturn the will of the majoriety. After all the dust has settled, after all the hoopla and fanfare your lifestyle doesn't agree with mainstream America. You have been weighed and measured and been found wanting. Go back in your homes close the blinds and hide in the closet.

Yeaitsme, I take it you are a regular poster who did not have the courage to post this under your regular name, hence this one time post. Yeah, it's who?

I am not aware of any evidence that gays "damage" children, their own or other people's, certainly not to the extent that many heterosexual parents do. Name some major criminals, and their parents are heterosexual. Where's the argument for the so-called damage? Why would the children of gays be any less well adjusted than the children of bigots? If anything, I would bet it'd go the other way...

Yeaitsme, I wonder how your kids will be turn out with all the hate and anger you've. How many skeltons do you have in your closets.

Also, if you do some reserch you would find that kids who was raise in a same sex married live a healthy balance life.

Yeaitsme, I wonder how your kids will be turn out with all the hate and anger you've. How many skeltons do you have in your closets.

Also, if you do some reserch you would find that kids who was raise in a same sex married live a healthy balance life.

I agree and seriously hope that people like Yeaitsme do NOT have children to pass down their anger and prejudices to. It seems like the children who are taught these hateful and close-minded ways of life turn out to be skinheads and criminals and other horrible things and do awful things to other people. PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM CHILDREN! And people in general if you continue to spout off hateful words.

I consider the children of gay parents, people who generally are more open-minded, to be lucky.

1 John 4:20-21
If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

I personally have a different opinion on your opinion, since this is an open forum I thought I would state mine too.

I think as a Christian, you choose to live a certain way. You choose to live by God's laws and life guidelines. I totally agree with you that you need to Love your brother and I abhore Christians who persecute homosexuality and judge them... who are they to judge?

But I do believe that I also have a right to choose to protect what I believe is right. Granted, it's my choice, my opinion but I still have a right to it. Just like people who believe that gay marriage has a right.

If someone truly loves God, then they would want to follow Him, in every way. The bible (and most Christians believe that the Bible is God's word) strictly talks against homosexuality and defines it as a sin. And I'm not just pointing out homosexuality there are many other sins too: cheating on wives, covetting other people's things, lying, deciet, etc. I believe a sin is a sin.

So yes, you talk about Christians loving their brother, I agree with you. We should not judge, but we has Christians are also called to protect our beliefs as well. I find that so many people want me to be open minded, but no one wants to be open minded to my beliefs, especially if they are Christian.

Open mindedness goes both ways.

MARRIAGE: Between a man and woman. Always has been.

ALWAYS? Didn't Jacob marry both Leah AND Rachel? Isn't that a man and a woman and a woman?


MATHEMATICS: 2 + 2 = 4. Always has been.

LOL Two Plus Two Equals Four, But Not Always (http://virgil.azwestern.edu/~dag/lol/TwoPlusTwo.html)

Depending on the measurement scale you're using, 2+2 does NOT always = 4. I actually remember being shown how to prove that 2+2 does NOT equal 4.


SCIENCE: Gravity is real and makes apples hit the ground. Always has been.

Actually, I just read a really interesting philosophy book about just that idea. Did gravity REALLY exist before it was defined? And in any case, a LOT of things can affect gravity and prevent the apple from hitting the ground. A vacuum, for one thing. Magnetism, for another--I mean, what if the apple was bronze, and the magnet was opposite the gravitational force? Which way would the apple go then?


The above is not to say that "gay marriage" is just like mathematics and science. It simply states facts.

The flawed logic of people to try to make everything seem "right" just because they want to promote their "flawed" position is typical of desperate people... or to take factual statements and think that just because they are mentioned in the same post...

The flaw here, as far as I'm concerned, is that people KNEW the earth was flat, and the sun revolved around it, for THOUSANDS of years. It was a FACT.

People ALSO knew that a brick would fall faster than a feather, every time.

Please--facts change with knowledge. Just because it's a fact today doesn't mean it will be tomorrow.

And just because a word is defined in one way today does not mean it will be defined that way tomorrow. Look in the OED under the word "Ball", for example, or the word "nunnery". Or if that's too much work for you, think of how the definition of the word "mouse" has changed and expanded in just the last 30 years.

OED being the Oxford English Dictionary.

Well asking I believe your wrong on so many accounts I'm not sure where to begin. First off I am a new user and have never been on this site until recently. Second homosexuality harms children horribly. Convincing you of that I'm sure would be an impossible task. Of course abuse to children happens to often and isn't limited to homosexual households. That is a whole entirely different subject. The question I answered was my thought on the homosexual marriage ban that was voted on and overturned by the majoriety of voters in California and I was applauding them on their efforts to stop the abuse that's being done to the children trapped in that particular environment.

Please quote sources for your allegations that children suffer MORE in a homosexual environment than in a heterosexual environment.

Please explain how come children that lives in a same sex household being abuse and have horrible childhoods?

What study has proven this because the one I saw says the opposite yesitme. Again that is just a twisted view of yours whether then a fact but prove me wrong.

To try and explain common sense is a difficult thing to those without. And as far as the comment that my intolerance scares altenweg, your tolerance of it is the problem.

To try and explain common sense is a difficult thing to those without. And as far as the comment that my intolerance scares altenweg, your tolerance of it is the problem.

What you stated isn't common sense and not even an opinon but your trying to say it is a fact which is wrong. Maybe your lacking common sense and I can see that why everything that you write.

Everyone would like to know how are children being trapped into an abusive household because they live in a same sex household. Studies have been done about this topic and it proves the opposite of what your saying.

I think your dislike for same sex couples have clouded your mind. I wonder what you would do if you had a child that was gay, most likely disown them. How sad!

If you want to come off as at least being half intelligent states some facts that support what your writing.

I would think that children in a household with two parents, but with one parent despising them because they are not their "natural" child but a step child would be worse than parents of the same sex.

I would ALSO think that having 2 loving parents of the same sex would be better than mommy being married 3 times and daddy being married 2 times, but with a kid by a third woman he never married.

I would ALSO think that a child raised in love regardless of the gender the love is comign from would be better than a child raised with resentment or hatred, regardless the gender of the resentment or hatred.

Funny to hear you talk about common sense, really. Common sense says that children are hurt by hate, not by love. That seems pretty basic to me. Maybe you are the one missing the definition of common sense?

You all might want to check this thread.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/issues-causes/gay-marriage-ban-tolerance-287640.html

I say let people be happy and if its with the same sex then so be it! Everyone dserves to be happy with someone they love and want to spend their life with and they should be able to share the same qualities as a married couple as well.

What you stated isn't common sense and not even an opinon but your trying to say it is a fact which is wrong. Maybe your lacking common sense and I can see that why everything that you write.

Everyone would like to know how are children being trapped into an abusive household because they live in a same sex household. Studies have been done about this topic and it proves the opposite of what your saying.

I think your dislike for same sex couples have clouded your mind. I wonder what you would do if you had a child that was gay, most likely disown them. How sad!

If you want to come off as at least being half intelligent states some facts that support what your writing.


Would you post your source for studies concerning children trapped in abusive/same sex households? I cannot find anything similar and also find stastics, unless cited, are pretty meaningless.

As far as same sex marriages - to each his own. This is one of those emotional/quasi religious topics that gets blood boiling.

I think we all just have to agree to disagree. The only thing that makes me really sad is that Gay marriage isn't being banned because it's bad, but because it doesn't agree with the bible (or so people claim) and because of misguided information from haters.

It wasn't so long ago that women weren't allowed to vote, they weren't even considered people according to the law. The suffragattes fought for our right to vote, and they fought hard. Were men right, should we never have been allowed to vote? After all, we're women, the "weaker sex" we make decisions based on emotions, those were a few of their arguments against allowing women the vote. It's not all that dissimilar to Gay marriage, all the reasoning behind not allowing it is either based on hate or religious beliefs, not actual fact.

When we discriminate against groups of people we are not only hurting them but we are hurting ourselves, our children, our grandchilren. Discrimintation is discrimination, it's prejudice, hate, and I'm pretty sure that the bible isn't okay with that either!

Would you post your source for studies concerning children trapped in abusive/same sex households? I cannot find anything similar and also find stastics, unless cited, are pretty meaningless.

As far as same sex marriages - to each his own. This is one of those emotional/quasi religious topics that gets blood boiling.

I never said children in a same sex marriage were abused or trapped in it yeaitme said that and if you reread my post you clearly see I never stated that. So maybe you should be asking yeaitme that like I was in my post.

After reviewing the available data in 2002, the American Academy of Pediatrics endorsed second-parent adoption rights for gay couples. A resolution passed by the American Psychological Association in 2004 declared that there was "no scientific evidence that parenting effectiveness is related to parental sexual orientation: lesbian and gay parents are as likely as heterosexual parents to provide supportive and healthy environments for their children." It also noted that "the children of lesbian and gay parents are as likely as those of heterosexual parents to flourish."
--reason.com

A theologian named Timothy Dailey is focused on the sexual abuse of children, rather than any other indicators of parenting. After mentioning abuse by priests, Dailey goes on to argue that since pedophiles are overwhelmingly male and about one-third of their victims are boys, that these boy-oriented pedophiles are, by definition, homosexuals. He also quotes a pedophile who complains that gays don't want to have anything to do with him. I guess Dailey feels that gays should welcome this pedophlle as one of their own, but most gay men are not interested in being associated with pedophiles.

Oddly, Dailey also says that studies show that pedophiles respond sexually to women the same way as heterosexual men and great numbers of them marry and have children, suggesting (to me) they are basically heterosexual. He also emphasizes that child sexual abuse is overwhelmingly done by men. Not sure what his point was. We should out law being male? He sites no studies to support his claim that gays are predisposed to molest children. I did not find his argument persuasive.

On the other hand, I was struck by his emphasizing that molestation of both boys and girls is overwhelmingly done by men. Why is it men who molest?

I'm opening a can of worms, watch them wiggle.

I found this on the internet.

"Prop 8 - The Musical" starring Jack Black, John C. Reilly, and many more... from FOD Team, Jack Black, Craig Robinson, John C Reilly, and Rashida Jones (http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/c0cf508ff8/prop-8-the-musical-starring-jack-black-john-c-reilly-and-many-more-from-fod-team-jack-black-craig-robinson-john-c-reilly-and-rashida-jones)

Warning, Christians may be offended.

I'm opening a can of worms, watch them wiggle.

I found this on the internet.

"Prop 8 - The Musical" starring Jack Black, John C. Reilly, and many more... from FOD Team, Jack Black, Craig Robinson, John C Reilly, and Rashida Jones (http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/c0cf508ff8/prop-8-the-musical-starring-jack-black-john-c-reilly-and-many-more-from-fod-team-jack-black-craig-robinson-john-c-reilly-and-rashida-jones)

Warning, Christians may be offended.LOL! I was going to post that too! Great minds... :)

I never said children in a same sex marriage were abused or trapped in it yeaitme said that and if you reread my post you clearly see I never stated that. So maybe you should be asking yeaitme that like I was in my post.


This is the study I'm asking about: "Everyone would like to know how are children being trapped into an abusive household because they live in a same sex household. Studies have been done about this topic and it proves the opposite of what your saying."

This is the study I'm asking about: "Everyone would like to know how are children being trapped into an abusive household because they live in a same sex household. Studies have been done about this topic and it proves the opposite of what your saying."
[QUOTE=JudyKayTee;14086

Once again Yeaitme stated in her post that it is harmful for children to be raised in a homosexual eniroment. Your quote of mines was a response to her post. I wonder why you didn't quote them and asked them to back up with they said.

I saw a special on channel 13 over 2 years about kids being raise in a homosexual environment and they found that it does no damage to the child in any way and they are capable of providing the same needs to a child just like a man and women. I also read study online about the same subject and it basically said the same thing. I am pretty should you can Google things about this topic to read yourself or go pbs.org to found the special I was referring to.

My computer is down and I actually on my pds phone and so a search will take too long but I sure your capable of performing a search.

Asking, I love your post and tried to rate it but it said I had to spread the rep. Maybe you should post that on yeaitme thread too.

[QUOTE=JudyKayTee;14086

Once again Yeaitme stated in her post that it is harmful for children to be raised in a homosexual eniroment. Your quote of mines was a response to her post. I wonder why you didn't quote them and asked them to back up with they said.

I saw a special on channel 13 over 2 years about kids being raise in a homosexual enviroment and they found that it does no damage to the child in any way and they are capable of providing the same needs to a child just like a man and women. I also read study online about the same subject and it basically said the same thing. I am pretty should you can google things about this topic to read yourself or go pbs.org to found the special I was referring to.

My computer is down and I actually on my pds phone and so a search will take too long but I sure your capable of performing a search.



I didn't ask about Yeaitme's post because "Syn" did and it would have been redundant.

I can't find such a study but I will continue to look until your computer is back up and running.

[QUOTE=liz28;1408746]



I didn't ask about Yeaitme's post because "Syn" did and it would have been redundant.

I can't find such a study but I will continue to look until your computer is back up and running.

I find it odd that you couldn't find any studies on Google. I type in "studies on kids with a same sex couple" and thousands of studies came up, and this is from my phone. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=studies+about+kids+with+a+sex+same+couple&btnG=Search You can read anyone you want. I love my phone.

[QUOTE=JudyKayTee;1408752]

I find it odd that you couldn't find any studies on google. I type in "studies on kids with a same sex couple" and thousands of studies came up, and this is from my phone. studies about kids with a sex same couple - Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=studies+about+kids+with+a+sex+same+couple&btnG=Search) You can read anyone you want. I love my phone.



Which specific
Site are you reading? I find all kinds of studies but nothing concerning what you posted. Everything else but the study you referenced and, as you said, there are thousands of them.

[QUOTE=liz28;1408797]



Which site are you reading? I find everything else but the study you referenced -

Once again I posted studies that supported what I posted. Once again I stated studies have been done that proves homosexual are capable of raising kids just like a hexterosexual couple and you can read any studies from the linked I posted, from the thousands.

This will be my last response to you because I posted proof to what I said and have no idea what else you want. You asked for it and I gave it to you.

I think it is a tragic, hateful, and religious backed attempt to force beliefs on others.

I am in Canada, where gay marriage is legal. When the issue was being dealt with in the court systems, it was a big hullabaloo. Denying same-sex equal rights was eventually declared unconsitutional under Canadas Rights and Freedoms.

Then, it wasn't a big deal. It isn't an issue in politics, neighbourhoods, schools, coffee shops, anywhere. Because it is legal, and the issue was decided, that's the end of it. The entire country abides by the same laws. To change the constitution back to making it illegal, seems like going from 2008 back to the caveman days. It just won't happen.

It makes for a healthier society where people are accepted and respected, regardless of what their sexual orientation is. That is the purpose of equality for all is it not?

I do believe that eventually common sense will rule the day in California, and this issue will finally be put to rest, and gay people will have the rights they deserve as human beings, tax payers, and citizens.

The above is not to say that "gay marriage" is just like mathematics and science. It simply states facts.

The flawed logic of people to try to make everything seem "right" just because they want to promote their "flawed" position is typical of desperate people... or to take factual statements and think that just because they are mentioned in the same post...

This does not hold water. I am NOT gay, yet I support gay marriage. I am not trying to make something "seem" right
in order to fit my personal agenda. As a straight person why should I care about gay marriage? Because it is the right thing to do and it is wrong to discriminate against any particular sector of Gods children. Love is love and isn't that more important than what body parts are involved?

I agree with the gay marriage ban 100%. And that's not intolerant at all. Marriage is and will always be defined as a Union between one Man and one Woman, period. That's it there's no discussion or debate on what it is. The only debate is what is trying to be done to change it. We can talk in great length about what is being done to the moral fabric of the country, the damage homosexuals do to the poor children that's subjected to their perverse lifestyle. However with all that said if you want a civil union have at it, keep it in your homes and away from the eyes of children, and you should have the right to live how you want in your own home. Just don't ask to overturn the will of the majoriety. After all the dust has settled, after all the hoopla and fanfare your lifestyle doesn't agree with mainstream America. You have been weighed and measured and been found wanting. Go back in your homes close the blinds and hide in the closet.

That's not intolerant at all? REALLY??? Read the rest of your speech... it is not only intolerant, it's bigoted, narrow-minded and dictatorial! What gimme a second, I'll get out my thesaurus and get you a few more!

Children that are subjected to their perverse lifestyle? How dare you! The only one around here that leaves something to be desired by their lifestyle is you! Raising children that will go on to spout your hate like a pack of drones, just program them all, tell them it came from God and send them out into the world.

The disgusting stuff you are spewing makes me sick to my stomach.

But do you know what? The justice will come the day you finally take the blinkers off and realise your not in Kansas anymore Toto. YOU are not mainstream America. YOUR IDEALS AND PROPAGANDA are not mainstream America.

How dare you make reference to a closet, you have no idea what it is to come out. But it's a lot better to come out than to be thrown out on your a$$ and that is what it is going to feel like when you realise YOU ARE NOT THE MAJORITY.