rheinhessen
Oct 31, 2008, 07:45 AM
A brief overview of the situation..
I am currently 17.5 weeks pregnant.
I have had three instances of pregnancy related absence.
The first was severe morning sickness - I took one day off out of the 10+ weeks that I have been coming into work vomiting. This day was particularly bad and I had been in work for 2 hours and spent almost all of it stuck over the toilet, so made the decision to go home as I felt absolutely ill.
The second instance was after 2 falls down the stairs in one day, I was advised by my midwife to take the day off (it was a Friday) and to rest the next day and over the weekend, as it could have been due to low blood pressure. I also injured my hip and back . It is worth baring in mind that had I of not been pregnant, I would have went into work, my concern and my midwifes', was to the baby and any trauma it may have caused. I can also advise that both times these falls were witnessed by one my managers and both falls were never entered into the building accident book.
My third instance was a migraine - I realise I cannot prove this was pregnancy related, but I believe it was as I have been suffering an ever increasing amount of headaches and this particular headache evolved - and being limited to pain medication I can take, I gained no relief. I'm not so hot on disputing this particular absence as I do have a history of migraines, in clusters..
I was called to a meeting so we could perform my 'Return to work' for each instance. I was then informed at the very end of the meeting that I would be invited to a disciplinary hearing where I would receive a verbal warning.
Now, to me - bare in mind that I have limited HR knowledge - as far as the information I received from a BERR leaflet, the employers guide advises that any disciplinary procedures that are in place to deal with normal absence must not be applied to pregnancy related absence - though it may be monitored separately to normal illness.
I pointed this out to the lady I had my meeting with and she passed this to our HR department, who came back with the vague reply 'We follow guidance from the european Court of Justice case which states that there is no distinction between pregnancy related illness and normal illness'
When I challenged them and asked which case they were referring to exactly and could they provide me with the information and the ruling, I received no response. I found an ECJ case of my own volition, which gave guidance in MY favour and I asked why they chose to follow one particular case and not the case I could provide and again I received no response.
I'm slightly confused. I have government guidance - both in leaflet form and directly from official government websites which state that the only time pregnancy illness and normal illness are treat the same is with regards to pay. I assume, perhaps naievly, that it is law/legislation that dictates that disciplinary procedures are not upheld with regards to pregnancy absence and that ECJ cases and ruling are for guidance only. Does my employer have the right to disregard employment law for ECJ guidance?
I then decided I wanted a representative in to put my case forward, as I am far too emotional in my current state to be able to deal with this alone and I feel so angry that I know I couldn't act reasonably. As I work as an agency employee, seconded into a corporate company, I am limited as to who exactly I can have at my hearing with me. 90% of my fellow work colleagues, who I have worked with for years, have been given a contract with said corporate company and are no longer agency employees - this means I could not have one of those people in with me. The remaining 10% are people whom I barely know from adam and I don't think have the skills to represent me.
My only alternative is to draft in a TU representative - however, my employers do not have a TU they allow to work within the company. I have asked if there are any TUs they recognise or any they specifically do not recognise - no reply. They post poned my original hearing 13/10/08 and advised they were giving me a maximum of 5 working days to join a TU, find and brief a representative and then attend the hearing.
I'm completely at a loss - as far as I was aware they cannot impose a time limit on my being able to find representation? Also, the ACAS site advises that an employer must afford reasonable time to find a representative and time to aqquaint ourselves with one or another and get a feel for the case at hand. Also, the date of the hearing must be convenient for ALL parties - so can my employer give a time limit given that I haven't yet found anybody, and even if I had, do not know if this is a covenient time for them to attend?
I'm just absolutely dumb founded at their treatment of me... I could really do without the stress of this entire situation, however, as I feel I am correct in my convictions I just cannot let this go. I could accept what they were saying if they provided me with visible evidence, but it feels like they are trying to scare monger me into rolling over and just accepting the verbal warning.
I was advised that I could not be sacked for pregnancy related illness - but then, doesn't this make the entire process of a disciplinary academic? It means I could be given multiple disciplinarys, yet never get sacked for them, and they won't count towards disciplinary for normal absence or unrelated disciplinarys. Surely the point of a disciplinary process is that it's 3 strikes and you're out? So if I get 3 - they won't sack me.. maybe I'll get a forth - then what will they do?
I'm contemplating seeking a legal consultation with a solicitor that specialises in employment law - but I'm just so confused as to who is right and who is wrong.
The stress is really getting to me - it's not even like I get paid for sick leave, and with a baby on the way I can safely say I;m taking days off on a whim, I'm not in the financial position. It causes extra worry because what if I'm hospitalised for high blood pressure? What if I'm put on bed rest due to going into preterm labour? What if I then have the a third absence due to more high blood pressure?
It's safe to assume these absences would NOT occur if I were not pregnant, but now I am just reluctant to take ANY time off whatsoever - which could do more harm than good..
Any advice would be greatly appreciated and I do appreciate those that have taken the time to read this as I realise it was pretty long winded - and this is just the brief over view.
Just to throw into the mix here - my employer has known I;ve been pregnant since week 5 and have YET to arrange for me to have a health and safety assessment of my work and surrounding - this is listed as once of my four key rights as a pregnant lady - is there a time limit on this or can they perform it any time they like as long as it gets done?
I am currently 17.5 weeks pregnant.
I have had three instances of pregnancy related absence.
The first was severe morning sickness - I took one day off out of the 10+ weeks that I have been coming into work vomiting. This day was particularly bad and I had been in work for 2 hours and spent almost all of it stuck over the toilet, so made the decision to go home as I felt absolutely ill.
The second instance was after 2 falls down the stairs in one day, I was advised by my midwife to take the day off (it was a Friday) and to rest the next day and over the weekend, as it could have been due to low blood pressure. I also injured my hip and back . It is worth baring in mind that had I of not been pregnant, I would have went into work, my concern and my midwifes', was to the baby and any trauma it may have caused. I can also advise that both times these falls were witnessed by one my managers and both falls were never entered into the building accident book.
My third instance was a migraine - I realise I cannot prove this was pregnancy related, but I believe it was as I have been suffering an ever increasing amount of headaches and this particular headache evolved - and being limited to pain medication I can take, I gained no relief. I'm not so hot on disputing this particular absence as I do have a history of migraines, in clusters..
I was called to a meeting so we could perform my 'Return to work' for each instance. I was then informed at the very end of the meeting that I would be invited to a disciplinary hearing where I would receive a verbal warning.
Now, to me - bare in mind that I have limited HR knowledge - as far as the information I received from a BERR leaflet, the employers guide advises that any disciplinary procedures that are in place to deal with normal absence must not be applied to pregnancy related absence - though it may be monitored separately to normal illness.
I pointed this out to the lady I had my meeting with and she passed this to our HR department, who came back with the vague reply 'We follow guidance from the european Court of Justice case which states that there is no distinction between pregnancy related illness and normal illness'
When I challenged them and asked which case they were referring to exactly and could they provide me with the information and the ruling, I received no response. I found an ECJ case of my own volition, which gave guidance in MY favour and I asked why they chose to follow one particular case and not the case I could provide and again I received no response.
I'm slightly confused. I have government guidance - both in leaflet form and directly from official government websites which state that the only time pregnancy illness and normal illness are treat the same is with regards to pay. I assume, perhaps naievly, that it is law/legislation that dictates that disciplinary procedures are not upheld with regards to pregnancy absence and that ECJ cases and ruling are for guidance only. Does my employer have the right to disregard employment law for ECJ guidance?
I then decided I wanted a representative in to put my case forward, as I am far too emotional in my current state to be able to deal with this alone and I feel so angry that I know I couldn't act reasonably. As I work as an agency employee, seconded into a corporate company, I am limited as to who exactly I can have at my hearing with me. 90% of my fellow work colleagues, who I have worked with for years, have been given a contract with said corporate company and are no longer agency employees - this means I could not have one of those people in with me. The remaining 10% are people whom I barely know from adam and I don't think have the skills to represent me.
My only alternative is to draft in a TU representative - however, my employers do not have a TU they allow to work within the company. I have asked if there are any TUs they recognise or any they specifically do not recognise - no reply. They post poned my original hearing 13/10/08 and advised they were giving me a maximum of 5 working days to join a TU, find and brief a representative and then attend the hearing.
I'm completely at a loss - as far as I was aware they cannot impose a time limit on my being able to find representation? Also, the ACAS site advises that an employer must afford reasonable time to find a representative and time to aqquaint ourselves with one or another and get a feel for the case at hand. Also, the date of the hearing must be convenient for ALL parties - so can my employer give a time limit given that I haven't yet found anybody, and even if I had, do not know if this is a covenient time for them to attend?
I'm just absolutely dumb founded at their treatment of me... I could really do without the stress of this entire situation, however, as I feel I am correct in my convictions I just cannot let this go. I could accept what they were saying if they provided me with visible evidence, but it feels like they are trying to scare monger me into rolling over and just accepting the verbal warning.
I was advised that I could not be sacked for pregnancy related illness - but then, doesn't this make the entire process of a disciplinary academic? It means I could be given multiple disciplinarys, yet never get sacked for them, and they won't count towards disciplinary for normal absence or unrelated disciplinarys. Surely the point of a disciplinary process is that it's 3 strikes and you're out? So if I get 3 - they won't sack me.. maybe I'll get a forth - then what will they do?
I'm contemplating seeking a legal consultation with a solicitor that specialises in employment law - but I'm just so confused as to who is right and who is wrong.
The stress is really getting to me - it's not even like I get paid for sick leave, and with a baby on the way I can safely say I;m taking days off on a whim, I'm not in the financial position. It causes extra worry because what if I'm hospitalised for high blood pressure? What if I'm put on bed rest due to going into preterm labour? What if I then have the a third absence due to more high blood pressure?
It's safe to assume these absences would NOT occur if I were not pregnant, but now I am just reluctant to take ANY time off whatsoever - which could do more harm than good..
Any advice would be greatly appreciated and I do appreciate those that have taken the time to read this as I realise it was pretty long winded - and this is just the brief over view.
Just to throw into the mix here - my employer has known I;ve been pregnant since week 5 and have YET to arrange for me to have a health and safety assessment of my work and surrounding - this is listed as once of my four key rights as a pregnant lady - is there a time limit on this or can they perform it any time they like as long as it gets done?