What religions do you believe are cults and why

Here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult) an excellent article that covers both religious and non religious Cults.
After all we are all members of a large internet based Cult in AMHD ;)

You have to admit though it will take a lot to get this one shut down

I seem to be the kiss of death for thread locks so I'll remove myself and go with Curly's link.

:)

This is a difficult question... while I have never referred to any one religion as a cult, the meaning itself seems to define any religion.



Main Entry: cult
Function: noun
1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
...
...

5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion


However, when you look at alternative definitions, it would only be in perspective... where one religion could not be deemed a cult unless it conflicted with the religion of him who is classifying it (did that make any sense? Lol :D)



3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents

In my Survey of World Religions course last fall the professor described a cult as an unorganized/unrecognized religion.

Catholicism is a recognized/organized religion for example, but in his teachings Jehova's Witness was still largely considered a cult.

The sound of the word itself definitely gives way to a derogatory remark, although, the definition does not. That is why this could be a very "sticky" thread lol :cool:

If we really are a cult, can we have our first sacrifice now? I mean... I isn't volunteering or nuthin... we could draw straws or sumpthin... ya know.

You make me laugh yet again. Although this was the teachings of my professor, I believe him to have been an idiot.

*raises hand*

I'll make the KoolAid!



**and with that, I am out of here! Catch you all tomorrow!

Don't forget the peanuts Dr. J.

What religions do you believe are cults and why
Anytime one guy makes the rules as he sees fit and isolates the members who follow like sheep, in my mind that is a cult! I could go on about the major organized religions, because a lot of them seemed to be isolated and follow like sheep but the jury is out for now.:cool: ;)

First of all I want to applaud Demon for making a legit new thread for a legit new debate...

BRAVO!!

See... that wasn't so difficult! :rolleyes:

To me a cult is an organization that controls its members financially and morally, brainwashes them into very odd and sometimes dangerous or damaging beliefs, insists that these beliefs are the ONLY truth, cuts them off from family and friends who are not members of the cult, disowns them completely if they ever leave the cult... in other words, controls every aspect of their lives so that the cult member is "trapped". Leaving is very very difficult because they have surrendered their finances and burned their bridges as far as outside friends and family.

I would consider the JWs a sect (sort of a "fringe" religion) rather than a cult, but they are definitely bordering on being a cult.

Oh and by the way my definitions of "cult" and "sect" are not really my own opinions... they're what I learned in Intro Sociology in university, but I do agree with the sociological definitions. The article that Curlyben shared is really good, too.

As for the topic...
I would like to add that we tend to be quick these days to place judgement where judgement shouldn't be. I have seen cult, sect, denomination and religion all used somewhat interchangeably in many many readings.

I am happy with dictionary definitions of most words and see this term in a neutral light. I think any cult needs to be evaluated more on its context, intentions and actions. To wholesale see the term in a negative light isn't really good journalism, in my book. Its just a poor little word, for heavens sake!

To borrow a paraphrased line from the Wizard of Oz:
Is this a good cult or a bad cult? :p

Christianity was considered a cult when it first emerged.


My personal definition of a cult is a religious organization whose activities are totally anti Christian oriented. Satanists, voodoo practicing, black magic, witchcraft oriented groups, or groups which twist the Bible to such a degree that God ceases to be God, Jesus isn't important for our salvation, and biblical morality is ignored and so on.


I wouldn't call any religion which teaches that the Bible is inspired of God, considers the biblical God as the TRUE God, and teaches us that Jesus died for our our sins a cult. Neither would I call the required adherence to Christian morality or regular Bible study with the purpose of gaining apreciation for scripture mind control since we are told clearly in the scriptures to do these things.


Importance of Study
http://www.biblebelievers.com/misc_periodical_articles/northfield_echoes_001.html

Christian Living
http://www.fbcsf.org/lives/live.htm


BTW
Part of the danger in classifying people of a Christian sect as belonging to a cult is that
It involves a judgement of their present relationship to the creator and an assumed knowledge of their eternal future. It seems to denigrade their efforts to please God to the best of their PRESENT knowledge classifying their activities as totally worthless.

Of course this might very well be the case but not always. Only God knows.

Christianity was considered a cult when it first emerged.

My personal definition of a cult is a religious organization whose activities are totally anti Christian oriented. Satanists, voodoo practicing, black magic, witchcraft oriented groups, or groups which twist the Bible to such a degree that God ceases to be God, Jesus isn't important for our salvation, and biblical morality is ignored and so on.

I wouldn't call any religion which teaches that the Bible is inspired of God, considers the biblical God as the TRUE God, and teaches us that Jesus died for our our sins a cult. Neither would I call the required adherence to Christian morality or regular Bible study with the purpose of gaining apreciation for scripture mind control since we are told clearly in the scriptures to do these things.


Hmmm…..

So that whole Jew thing, cultish?

Jews don't believe Jesus is the salvation.

In fact, Jews have been around loner than Christianity.

In fact, Jesus himself was Jewish.

I wouldn't call any religion which teaches that the Bible is inspired of God, considers the biblical God as the TRUE God, and teaches us that Jesus died for our our sins a cult. Neither would I call the required adherence to Christian morality or regular Bible study with the purpose of gaining apreciation for scripture mind control since we are told clearly in the scriptures to do these things.


I think a Christian religion could be a cult if it kept people totally away from society and their friends and family, took away their freedom of choice, all their money, etc. Offhand I can't really think of a Christian religion that does that, though, at least not to the extent that it would be considered a cult. In my sociology class, so-called radical Christian groups such as the Amish, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc, were classified as sects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sect) rather than cults. The cult groups were the "traditional" ones people think of, such as the Moonies and Krishna Consciousness.

Hmmm…..

So that whole Jew thing, cultish?

Jews don't believe Jesus is the salvation.

In fact, Jews have been around loner than Christianity.

In fact, Jesus himself was Jewish.


That's what happens when we post information without first considering all possible ramifications and clarifying accordingly. I should have said anti-biblical-God oriented in the sense of dealing in the occult via the means I described previously.


Sorry I gave you that impression. I do not consider the Jewish religion a cult in the same way that I don't consider any of the other main religions cults. To me a cult has to be essentially demonic and anti God. The Jewish religion is neither.

The Jewish religion adheres to biblical morality, condemns spiritism, identifies Satan as God's enemy, recognizes the Biblical God as God and the Hebrew scriptures as inspired of God. However, like the Moslems the Jewish religion considers Jesus just a prophet. That is where we disagree because to Christians he is far more.

BTW

Home - Jews for Jesus
Jews for Jesus Ministry Website. Features publications, media, and resources the give evidence to Yeshua (Jesus) being the Jewish Messiah. ... the Tabernacles by Jews for Jesus Executive Director David Brickner ... volume that relates the holiday to its fulfillment in Jesus
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/

WHY. MESSIANIC. JEWS? Rachmiel Frydiand ... We believe in Yeshua (Jesus) as Messiah because He alone gives sense to the words of our Jewish prophets ...
http://www.menorah.org/mjews.html

Not all the Jews for Jesus and the Messianics are "real" Jews though... a lot of them are gentiles posing as Jews to win converts. I find both groups highly questionable for that reason. I prefer the Jews for Judaism, a counter-missionary group, of course! :p

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_for_Judaism

Anyway I don't want to start an off-topic discussion here... I just thought you should know that most Jews who practice Judaism have a very low opinion of the organizations you mentioned, and consider them a threat to our culture, heritage, faith... to our people in general.

Not all the Jews for Jesus and the Messianics are "real" Jews though... a lot of them are gentiles posing as Jews to win converts. I find both groups highly questionable for that reason. I prefer the Jews for Judaism, a counter-missionary group, of course! :p

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_for_Judaism

Anyways I don't want to start an off-topic discussion here... I just think you need to realize that most Jews who practice Judaism have a very low opinion of the organizations you mentioned, and consider them a threat to our culture, heritage, faith... to our people in general. If you want me to explain more about why we don't like these groups, I will continue if you start a new thread. But this thread was supposed to be about cults! :p

I was unaware of this enmity between the two groups.
So you consider the Messianic Jews a cult?

Basically, I consider them dishonest. They claim to be Jews, have churches that look like temples or synagogues, call their leaders "Rabbis" when they have never been to a Rabbinical yeshiva, and generally don't "admit" to being Christians until you've talked with them for a while. Personally I find that underhanded. When there was a large influx of Russian Jewish immigrants to Canada, the Messianics invited them to their "synagogues". These Jews had never been to a real synagogue, having been raised with communism, and since they also didn't speak English, they didn't know any better. That was when the Jews for Judaism was formed, to counteract what most Jews considered to be deception.

Personally I have a lot more respect for Christians who simply come out and say they are Christians. If you want to convert me to Christianity, say so! Don't pretend to be practicing Judaism, when really you are a Christian. The nuns at my boarding school would have never done something like that to me... I KNEW they were Christians. They are up front. Actually I know a lot of Christians, including a Jewish person who converted to Christianity, who also don't think much of the Messianics.

And no I don't consider them a cult... I do believe though, as the Jews for Judaism website says, that they use some cult-like tactics. From personal experience I've had with them on several occasions, I know this is true. For example, they had Passover seders on campus when I was in university, but didn't say they were Christians until after I and my Jewish friends had unsuspectingly participated in the whole seder, which we thought was a real Jewish seder. Stuff like that. Like I said in an earlier post, I consider groups like the Moonies and Krishna Consciousness to be cults. But while they're not a cult, I do think the Messianic groups have a rather skewed sense of integrity...

Anyway I've said all I wanted to say here. I feel bad for letting this thread get off topic... back to cults! :)

Basically, I consider them dishonest. They claim to be Jews, have churches that look like temples or synagogues, call their leaders "Rabbis" when they have never been to a Rabbinical yeshiva, and generally don't "admit" to being Christians until you've talked with them for a while. Personally I find that underhanded. When there was a large influx of Russian Jewish immigrants to Canada, the Messianics invited them to their "synagogues". These Jews had never been to a real synagogue, having been raised with communism, and since they also didn't speak English, they didn't know any better. That was when the Jews for Judaism was formed, to counteract what most Jews considered to be deception.

Personally I have a lot more respect for Christians who simply come out and say they are Christians. If you want to convert me to Christianity, say so! Don't pretend to be practicing Judaism, when really you are a Christian. The nuns at my boarding school would have never done something like that to me... I KNEW they were Christians. They are up front. Actually I know a lot of Christians, including a Jewish person who converted to Christianity, who also don't think much of the Messianics.

And no I don't consider them a cult... I do believe though, as the Jews for Judaism website says, that they use some cult-like tactics. From personal experience I've had with them on several occasions, I know this is true. For example, they had Passover seders on campus when I was in university, but didn't say they were Christians until after I and my Jewish friends had unsuspectingly participated in the whole seder, which we thought was a real Jewish seder. Stuff like that. Like I said in an earlier post, I consider groups like the Moonies and Krishna Consciousness to be cults. But while they're not a cult, I do think the Messianic groups have a rather skewed sense of integrity...

Anyways I've said all I wanted to say here. I feel bad for letting this thread get off topic... back to cults! :)

All I wanted to do was post a comment that said "Well Said". Instead, I get the, pass more rep. around message.

"...if you believe in it, it is a religion or perhaps 'the' religion;
and if you do not care one way or another about it, it is a sect;
but if you fear and hate it, it is a cult." Leo Pfeffer. A humorous quotation, but one that is uncomfortably close to reality.

I like the thorough airing out given to the definition of cult on this site:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/cults.htm

I have also browsed through the bookcase full of anti-AA books at Barnes and Noble. Many of those books accuse AA of being a cult. One in particular manged to validate how the organzation matched some 12 of 17 points of a cult. Again though, I would caution anyone to look at a bigger picture before making cult claims, lest a personal slant be in the mix. There is a profound difference between good debate and symmantics games!

When you say cult my mind goes to Charles Manson and the dude in WACO or Jim Jones, people who I consider to be way out of the box. As Orange pointed out they used the people they recruited for their own agenda and the result was wholesale death and destruction. In my opinion there are a lot of people who give up their free will to follow some a-hole who sees himself as some kind of god (REALLY HE"S A NUT). These people are what make him dangerous as they are willing to die or kill at his command! :cool: :confused:

CULT

C-reative
U-nified
L-eaders of
T-errorism

I believe anything doesn't allow freedom of choice is a cult

I believe anything doesn't allow freedom of choice is a cult

Hmmm well in that case... include my biological family as a cult!

I was born into it with no choice, was forced to stay until I was old enough to escape it, was "scripted" while there as to what to say, think and feel and often regulated in a very heavy handed way as to what I could do. :eek:

I always had a choice in my family mom and dads way or the belt

Sometimes I took the belt

I believe anything doesn't allow freedom of choice is a cult

YES that's a very good point. Freedom of choice is very important in a religious organization. I think most religions teach that G-d gave us free will, so what's the point of having it if religious leaders don't let us use it??


Hmmm well in that case ... include my biological family as a cult!

LOL. Sorry, I know it wasn't meant to be funny, but that is such a true statement that it's almost humorous! Children often seem to have none or very little rights, even if they are being neglected or abused. And they are often unable to defend themselves, only making matters worse.

So God allows us all behavior? I think that is wishful thinking.


Christianity and Judaism as well as Islam portray God as demanding certain behavior or else we suffer the consequences which can be as serious as death itself. The freedom given us was a freedom to be exercised within the parameters of God's laws. Complete freedom would lead to anarchy and the abuse of the rights of the weak by the strong. So if we are to use lack of total freedom as a criterion for classifying a cult we would have to include the three religions I just mentioned and many others as well which deamand that a worshipper behave himself or else.

So God allows us all behavior? I think that is wishful thinking.

I don't think G-d condones all behaviours, obviously not, otherwise there wouldn't be sin. But He does give people the freedom to decide whether they want to obey His laws or not. He doesn't force it upon people. That's what free will is.

A religion would be a cult IMO if it forced people to do things against their will. Being forced is not faith-based, it's fear-based. Could you really say that you were doing something because of faith if you did it only because someone was pointing a gun to your head?

Just remember that he does allow us are own free choices.
But someday you will have to answer for your transgressions

My definition is: An interest followed with exaggerated zeal

What religions do you believe are cults and why


All religions are Cults.

Although in the parlance of some religionists it has had a negative and pejorative definition to it as a religion or religious sect considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader, in standard English the word cult is quite innocuous and refers to any system of belief or worship.



M:)RGANITE

All religions are Cults
Just because man put a negative connotation on a word to throw doubt on what another group is doing, does not mean that they are any better than any other. With all the groups spinning off the original you need a score card to tell the players and know the differences between them. Every time some one gets his nose in a snit -BAM-go across the street and start your own group and dog out the one you just left! Can you imagine GOD scratching his head and saying -What are those humans doing now?

He is always complaining to me about them. But he is loving, kind, and just, and His will be the final word when He declares it to be harvest time. In the meantime, He expects us to treat each other right even when we think the other is wrong.


M:)RGANITE

The religion of ancient Israel, the forerunner of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, was cultic. The word 'cult' has been hijacked, like many words and a new meaning imposed on a perfectly good word. Those who use 'cult' as a pejorative have defined it so tightly that it can mean any religion or religious movement with which they, personally, disagree. This has not only bvecome a c onvenient shorthand tag with which to damn anyone and their faith without having to explain one'sself, but it becomes an engine of war, much as the word 'witch' was used in less enlightened times.

It is a reversal of understanding to designate certain movements as cultic, meaning thereby to damn them, and to characterise their adherents as cultic. It flies in the face of all that is good about religious faiths and is a barrier to understanding and friendship between people.

There have been sveeral excellent studies done on religious groups that marginalise and condemn to the trash can of religious consideration other groups whose teachings differ from theirs.

In each case, persecuting groupa are shown to be pathalogically disturbed with contention at their core and heart. A very disturbing revelation. If I remember coreectly, Jesus said, when told by his foloowres that there were some preaching his message who were not of their band,

"Leave them alone, dammit! Those who are not against me are for me!"

Why would anyone - especially one who professes to be religious - want to make life hard for others?


M:mad:RGANITE


Just remember that he does allow us are own free choices.
But someday you will have to answer for your transgressions


That is a very sensible posiiton to hold. Interfering in what others do is meddlesome and contentious. It's a matter of beams and specks.


M

Sometimes I see the term "cults" used closely with "false religions".
All cults and false religions can be traced back to a man who lived his life in rebellion to God and created the cult or false religion out of his imagination. I am using the derogatory definition in that case. One def. that states a cult is a religious sect generally considered to be extremist or bogus. Can't forget that bogus one either.

Scientology is an example of a cult. I could give examples of more however, I think the major interest when looking at a cult would be to see if it is harmful or helpful to its participants and for society in general. :)

"Leave them alone, dammit! Those who are not against me are for me!"

Well, That's an interesting quote...

Anyway, yes, yes... words get used in all sorts of different ways and the meanings get changed around... but the English word "cult" comes from the French "culte," which came from the Latin word "cultus" (care and adoration), which came from the Latin word "colere" (to cultivate). So us deriving what we say are the true meanings, our understandings, or anything else for this word is absurd.

No one knows what a false religion is... no one!

If we really are a cult, can we have our first sacrafice now? I mean...I aint volunteering or nuthin...we could draw straws or sumpthin...ya know.


I propose a big bonfire (only not in my yard, okay? :eek: - see "bad neighbor" thread in etiquette for details! ) whereby we sacrifice all our collective prejudices, ignorances, hatreds and terrors in the flames.

Then we can all join the cult called the "human race" and live peacefully therefter. :)

The joining of hands and the singing of Kumbaya is optional, of course :p

I propose a big bonfire (only not in my yard, okay? :eek: - see "bad neighbor" thread in etiquette for details! ) whereby we sacrifice all our collective prejudices, ignorances, hatreds and terrors in the flames.

Then we can all join the cult called the "human race" and live peacefully therefter. :)

The joining of hands and the singing of Kumbaya is optional, of course

:p
Sounds like a plan.

I will bring the marshmallow and Gram crackers

You know, I don't think I've ever had s'mores... I never heard of them until I was in my teens. My kids and I watched "Cheaper by the Dozen 2" last night and the family was eating s'mores in one scene. I think they are largely an American delicacy. :p But they do sound awesome!

You know, I don't think I've ever had s'mores... I never heard of them until I was in my teens. My kids and I watched "Cheaper by the Dozen 2" last night and the family was eating s'mores in one scene. I think they are largely an American delicacy. :p But they do sound awesome!!

S'mores, now there is something I can bestow some "care and adoration" on LOL

Oh my my Chavala... you have not lived until you have!
Run, don't walk to the store, er, well in your condition, send hubby!
Just don't be putting any hot sauce on them despite what Demon or J_9 says, okay? :p

And now back to our regularly scheduled thread on Cults.. . :rolleyes:

Haha... well I don't eat sugar, but I suppose I could cheat just this once! :p

So now you are going to start another food thread I suppose? VAL, does everything make you think of food?

Smoressss um yummmy yummy, they of course taste the best if they are cooked out in the forest by moonlight and the scent of burning wood in the air and a tent close by to drop into after eating them.

A Cult- A bunch of people united by food!

Yea, the Church of the slightly obese, bar-b-qued chicken bone suckers! Where you get baptised in butterscotch pudding. Pudding wrestling, anyone?

Tell me when and where I will be there

You are already, so shut-up and eat, we have a world to convert

We'll do it at Val's house in Florida and invite all them fire setting, gun crazy red necks! I just love me a big ole red neck mama covered in butterscotch puddin! Say when VAL!

If we really are a cult, can we have our first sacrafice now? I mean...I aint volunteering or nuthin...we could draw straws or sumpthin...ya know.

Sure. You stretch out on the altar and I'll get the warm knife.


:)


M


Well, THATS an interesting quote...

" ... deriving what we say are the true meanings, our understandings, or anything else for this word is absurd. "



Hardly absurd. Very necessary, or else what do we do with language? I pointed to the Standard English menaiong of the word. Others have pointed to nmore specific definitions.

It is true that words change currency with time and usage, but that is not a reason to abandon attempts to use it properly.

We either gain understanding of what words mean or else we revert to the kind of grunting employed by beats and live in continuous ocnfusion as to what the grunts mean.

Ugh! Grrr, ahrgh, brurph!

M

I am new to this post but butterscotch pudding, Florida and a warm knife sounds pretty interesting. After the sacrifice, we can have smores, right?

That was butterscotch pudding, not blood pudding

Don't they eat BLOOD PUDDING in England & Europe?

They're not in a cult. It's just their BLOODY diet!

Well, maybe not ALL of them like it - maybe only the IRON deficient!! Lol

Hardly absurd. Very necessary, or else what do we do with language? I pointed to the Standard English menaiong of the wrod. Others have pointed to nmore specific definitions.

It is true that words change currency with time and usage, but that is not a reason to abandon attempts to use it properly.

We either gain understanding of what words mean or else we revert to the kind of grunting employed by beats and live in continuous ocnfusion as to what the grunts mean.

Ugh! Grrr, ahrgh, brurph!

M

Actually, I wasn't referring to your post on the 2nd half of mine... I just wanted to quote your quote.

I agree with you... we can put all our own little spins on what the word means and apply it to anything... or we can take it at its root... what it really means in our language and go from there. Everyone seems to have their own definition like "a cult is any religion other than the one that I believe in" well, this gets us nowhere. In order to get from point A to point B, we need to know where/what A is.


As for the small cult forming in this very forum... no, never mind lol

Semantic games are a poor substitute for genuine debate but that doesn't stop people from engaging in them. I like to look up the meaning of words frist... it may seem old fashioned but it saves a lot of hassle later.

Main Entry: cult
Pronunciation: 'k&lt
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate -- more at WHEEL
1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

(courtesy of the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary)

I believe that the problem with this type of thread that focuses on a definition of a word is that existence of a word's denotation versus its connotation.

"A denotation is a word's literal meaning; a connotation is the full range of suggestions and associations that go with it. Dictionaries usually give a word's denotations, but are often less useful in revealing connotations; a good writer, though, will be conscious of the hidden meanings carried by every word." From here (http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/d.html).

Good reading here: http://atheism.about.com/od/criticalthinking/a/meaning.htm

The denotation can be lost be general common usage of a denotation (ex. Gay used to mean "happily excited"). In this case the connotation of the word "cult" can be used to inflame others who do not know the literal meaning of the word.

Wow, very cool links NK!
I considered connotation too... but decided to leave it out. The original question was so simply stated that it seemed to lack context (which also is a place to go when seeking word meaning) or so I thought? Shrugs :p

I believe that the problem with this type of thread that focuses on a definition of a word is that existence of a word's denotation versus its connotation.

"A denotation is a word's literal meaning; a connotation is the full range of suggestions and associations that go with it. Dictionaries usually give a word's denotations, but are often less useful in revealing connotations; a good writer, though, will be conscious of the hidden meanings carried by every word."

Yes, some postmoderns say that everything is connotation. That is, apparent denotation always has a connoted meaning too.

Anyhow, here's my view of religions and cults. It's long so I'll post the url:

http://web.ncf.ca/dy656/earthpages3/articles_religion_cult.htm

(the intro needs a rewrite but the chart is good... )

Golly, I had forgotten how good this thread was and all the great comments and links everyone added -- worth a read back through, I thought!

Yes, some postmoderns say that everything is connotation. That is, apparent denotation always has a connoted meaning too.

Anyhow, here's my view of religions and cults. It's long so I'll post the url:

http://web.ncf.ca/dy656/earthpages3/articles_religion_cult.htm

(the intro needs a rewrite but the chart is good...)

I have visited your link and find it distressingly similar to the "we are right and you are wrong" brigade. In fact, they say nothing different. Having stripped the word 'cult' of its true meaning, they redefine it to support their conlcusion that cults are somehow inferior, less - if at all - divinely favoured, and are simply emanations from the dark regions of Pluto. It is a sickening display of semantic fiddling that does violence to any definition of religion, especially to Christianity that it claims to represent.

Here is my main objection to this semantic manipulation in the pursuit of an enemy: The categories it posts under 'Cult' heading, have not been and in some cases are still not, alien to mainstream and side of the road Christianity, especially those of a right wing neo-conservative nature. It is the pot calling the kettle black and relies on the ignorance of the reader to swallow their historical inanities.

If that is the foundation of their premise and conclusion, then they are in trouble, more trouble than they can cope with, and more trouble than they can answere when the tables are turned to show how they themselves follow they very lines of separation and control that they charge against their definition of a cult. A person could get themselves into real difficulties with issues like truth, honesty, and misrepresenatation by believing what this website says.

The chart is as bad and as misleading as the verbiage accompanying it. It smacks of bigotry.

M:)

The article, the chart and the website are about dialogue, understanding and positive transformation. I don't know which version you read as I updated the intro Saturday morning. But it was mostly a stylistic revision. What is said here was also said before the revision. Please read it:

---

These are just working definitions; they're not etched in stone. Instead of trying to provide exhaustive definitions for religions and cults, a precarious task at best, the following chart elaborates on an idea from Gregg Stebben's Everything You Need to Know About Religion (http://books.kelkoo.co.uk/b/a/cpc_5101_vtl_author_c19011686.html) (1999).

The chart attempts to summarize some of the main beliefs and practices found within religions and cults. Again, this outline doesn't represent the final word on religions and cults. The attributes listed in each column don't universally apply and many of the distinctions are debatable. In keeping with Max Weber's approach, however, these categories are ideal types. Ideal types are generalized constructs designed to stimulate thought. They don't provide precise definitions nor exhaustive descriptions.

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http://web.ncf.ca/dy656/earthpages3/articles_religion_cult.htm

The article, the chart and the website are about dialogue, understanding and positive transformation. I don't know which version you read as I updated the intro Saturday morning. But it was mostly a stylistic revision. What is said here was also said before the revision. Please read it:

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These are just working definitions; they're not etched in stone. Instead of trying to provide exhaustive definitions for religions and cults, a precarious task at best, the following chart elaborates on an idea from Gregg Stebben's Everything You Need to Know About Religion (http://books.kelkoo.co.uk/b/a/cpc_5101_vtl_author_c19011686.html) (1999).

The chart attempts to summarize some of the main beliefs and practices found within religions and cults. Again, this outline doesn't represent the final word on religions and cults. The attributes listed in each column don't universally apply and many of the distinctions are debatable. In keeping with Max Weber's approach, however, these categories are ideal types. Ideal types are generalized constructs designed to stimulate thought. They don't provide precise definitions nor exhaustive descriptions.

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http://web.ncf.ca/dy656/earthpages3/articles_religion_cult.htm

I have revisited the site you add a link for, and followed several other links through Langone's work. I still find his definitions, and yours, disagreeable. Principally because he appears to take a view not unconnected with his own religious position - you would surprise me if you told me he was an atheist - and defines the groups he opposes from his own position. This is known as 'psychologists error,' as it is an extension of the principal believeing - eroneously - that everyone sees things in the same way he does. Psychaiatrists and scholars are not free from making these fundamental errors and building upon their specious foundations, as history attests.

From your charts and Mike Langone's dialogue I deduce that Orthodox chrstians are engaged in cultic worship because they follow slavishly a central charismatic cultic figure, Jesus, and each has its own narrowly defined set of rules that the believer must adopt if he is to remain in fellowship. I refer to the mind control apparati of catechisms, articles of faith, confessions, etc.

That being so, then all religions are cults - I note with displeasure that Langcome suplies one dictionary definition that suits his purpose but ignores the very many others that controvert his narrow view. Either a word means something or else it doesn't, but if someone is taking a word and applying a very narrow definition to it for their purposes, then he must unpack his terms and set up a very good and concise case for his doing so, in order to carry the reader along the line of his argument.

Weber was a sociologist, a seminal one, Langone is a psychiatrist with a narrow focus on something that obviously disturbs his tranquility. If it were not so, then he would not only be more even handed, but he would appear to be even handed and more scholarly. To anyone seriously interested in this subject, I heartily recommend Brian Wilson's work on religion and cults as a fair, balanced, erudite, and honest scholarly research and writing.


M:)

I have revisited the site you add a link for, and followed several other links through Langone's work. I still find his definitions, and yours, disagreeable...I heartily recommend Brian Wilson's work on religion and cults as a fair, balanced, erudite, and honest scholarly reasearch and writing.M:)
But since I created the website to stimulate dialogue and not to 'declare the truth', one could say that on the whole it's been successful.

I'll certainly look up Wilson's work. Feel free to mirror your comments at Earthpages (http://www.quicktopic.com/share?s=xDBL); or for that matter, to submit an article.:)

What religions do you believe are cults and why


A cult is any religion that I despise.


Tom

A cult is any religion that I despise.


TomI assume you're making a joke! If not, I respect your direct honesty. Probably that's how a lot of people really feel about 'cults' when they define them as such. But still, I think that there is a genuine difference between a religion and a cult. It's hard to pin down. And that's probably why some people find my chart inadequate--because it's unclear and there's so much apparent overlap. But isn't that like life? Anyhow, what is the difference? Well, maybe one difference could be that a true religion would be open to change and development, ever seeking to express the fullest possible truth, while a cult would stick to its leader's egomaniacal dictates. Now, some may say that the RC Church doesn't change and therefore is a cult. But actually, many things have changed within the RC church. As for the notion that Jesus is an example, par excellence, of a cult leader (since he seemed to say that he was God's very Son), we have to keep in mind the possibility that one of these historical figures could be speaking the truth while all the others are not. Many assume that, because quite a few historical figures have made claims to be "The One," they're all liars or deceived. But again, intellectually we can conceive of the possibility that one such figure could be telling the truth.;)