I apologize for the length of this post, but there is a lot that needs to be said. If you want to get to just the question, skip to the ****.

My wife and I have been together for seven years today. I admit, we did meet on the internet, on a car enthusiast website, to be exact. While we had talked and had fun together in the chatroom for months, there was never a romantic attachment. When the car club had it's annual meeting, we both went and met a few times briefly over the course of the week, as we were both there for more than each other, as we were both in relationships at the time.

Some time had passed, and we still talked from time-to-time. During that time, my long-time high school sweetheart and I had split-up, as she moved off to college and we started to become different people. This became painfully obvious when I went to visit or she came home. But this is neither here nor there. Another woman had come into and left my life in a short period as we just weren't compatible.

Months had passed when my future wife had actually driven 500 miles to spend the week with my best friend, who was also a member of the for mentioned forum. He had expressed interest in her, but the first two nights she was at his house, his interest in her dwindled. The third day, I was finally able to make it to his house and meet her in-person, and we almost instantly clicked. I ended up staying the night at his house and we sat up almost all night talking, about interests, our inside jokes from the chatroom, and just general silliness. (She also thought I was gay, because I always dressed nice and was well-groomed. :p)

The following day, we had all spent together, doing everything from just hanging out at the mall to just sitting around. While we were sitting outside my friend's house, on his porch, we looked at each other, and she gave me that look that makes me melt even today. And it happened, our first kiss. Later that night, we attended a local car club meeting, which finished off with bowling at the local alley. She had not brought socks on her visit and therefore couldn't wear bowling shoes. So being the nice guy I was, I ran home (about 2 miles from the bowling alley) and got her a pair of my socks. That swept her off her feet, and that is one of the things she always and still does talk about when she tell people how we met.

That night, she came back to my house and we unregrettably ended up sleeping together. A following day we spent with our friends at the dragstrip. She stayed over again that night and left for home the following morning. At the time, we weren't sure if it was just a fling or what.

We continued to talk on the phone and we shared everything together, even our sexual pasts. Partially due to this honesty and absolutely openness, I wanted to pursue a serious relationship and did the most-daring thing I had ever done: I packed up my stuff and moved 500 miles to be with her.

During our relationship, there was a lot of moving and other troubles within a short period. I made mistakes, went without work, etc. We made it through. Two years later, while we were living in California, we ended up getting married. It wasn't a flashy ceremony, but a small garden chapel wedding with our friends and a few relatives.

Once again, over the next year, we had issues, which we worked through. At one point, she was going to leave and actually left for the weekend. She told me she was going to see her grandparents in Phoenix, but I didn't find out until Sunday that she couldn't get ahold of them and instead stayed at her ex's house (who was at our wedding, I might add). I had always had my doubts about whether something had happened, as he was in a serious long-term relationship (and proposed to his girlfriend shortly after this visit). My wife swears that nothing happens, and I truly believe her.

A few months later, we found out she was pregnant, by only a few weeks, so no worries there. Due to the lack of family in California, we ended up quitting our jobs and moved back to her hometown, where we still are. Now, our daughter is 3 years old. During that time, before our daughter was born, my wife went on maternity leave and I picked up a second job, working 60+ hours a week, working 12-15 hours a day, for the following two years. I eventually left my part-time job since she went back to working.

Now, here we are. We've been married for five years, happily I thought.

****
Over the past year, she has spent an excessive amount of time online. Carrying on "in-character" relationships with other people. This concerned me and I wanted her to stop. I wanted to help. She swore it was only in good fun, but she would cut back. Fast forward to a few months ago, she started spending more and more time online, doing the same thing and I became suspicious

But then this past Saturday we got into huge a fight, because she has been spending a lot of time chatting with someone and I discovered the night before she had talked for over an hour with them. I made accusations that I really did regret after I left for work, and left work early so I could apologize in-person. When I got home, the house was empty. She moved out while I was at work, taking my daughter with her. I though our fight did it, but I was wrong. She claims that she has been unhappy for years, but has never full confronted me about it. I admit, I have not always been husband or dad-of-the-year. I should have helped more around the house, I'm not afraid to admit that. But if I had known it was this bad, I would have suggested getting help.

Her whole family came out on Saturday and helped her move out, under semi-false pretenses. She implied and led them to believe that I was verbally abusive and refused to get help for our marriage. Emails were went from distant relatives to her parents asking if they think I'm going to go psycho and if they were afraid I'd try to hurt them. I was destroyed and her family hated me, until the truth came out. My wife called me on Sunday evening, bawling her eyes out about how her dad threatened to destroy this "other guy's" life. Her mom called me ten minutes later and invited me to stay with them, so I'm not alone and can be with my daughter.

What really happened, which she finally admitted:

She was unhappy with our marriage, but instead of confronting the issue, she bottled it up and retreated to the internet. At the same time, a guy she was talking two was splitting from his wife. This continued for months and they admitted that they have feelings for each other. This past Wednesday night, while she was over at her parents' house, she called this guy. Her dad had listened in on the whole thing, but it didn't click until Sunday. Thursday morning, she called her mom, telling her that she needed out of this marriage. Her mom recruited the whole family to help her move out, in an effort to help her daughter escape this "abusive" relationship. As a result of this deception, her whole family has switched sides and is behind me.

But when I talked to her about it and found that my accusations were correct, she admits that regardless of how bad she hurt me , she loves this guy and wants to be with him. But she doesn't even know the guy. She talked to him online and on the phone and only knows what he told her. She admits that this whole thing is stupid and makes no sense, but after praying over it and thinking it through, she thinks this is her golden ticket to happiness.

Some things I pointed out and she admitted it crossed her mind, but still didn't change her mind: What if this guy is physically abusive? A sociopath? A pedophile?

His wife left him, she told me that. But why? Because she cheats on him and wants to continue to sleep with other people, that's what he told her, and she believes it.

Her parents and I sat her down and tried to talk it out, about trying to save our marriage. What it came down to from her parents, unfortunately, was an ultimatum. If she goes to him, she will lose her daughter. They said they would fight on my behalf for full-custody.

As a result, she gave up. She called this guy and supposedly told him it's over. She moved back in last night and has completely shut herself off to me. She's only doing it because she has no choice. She told me she still wants to try with this guy, but knows that doing so will cost her everything, her daughter and her family.

In a way, I want her to go to him and get hurt. But in every other way, I don't. I still love her, despite of how much pain she caused me. I want to make things work, she said she did, but now she doesn't.

What do I do from here?

I have tracked down this other guy's wife online, and am contemplating contacting her. If anything, I feel she needs to know everything. Also, I want to hear her side of the story, of their relationship. My wife did admit that if it turns out this guy is abusive and an overall bad guy, she will be grateful, but I still don't think I would ever be forgiven.

I know it sounds funny, I was the one who was cheated on and betrayed, but I'm worried about being forgiven.

Should I contact his wife? Or just let mine feign happiness and fake this marriage for the sake of our daughter. I want us to get help, as I've already contacted a councilor. But if she doesn't want to fix it, what should I do?

You two need some serious counselling and fast! If you want to make this work and by the sounds of your question you do, find someone, your minister, rabbi, priest, or someone outside of the church and get the professional help you need. I am guessing that there is some underlying issues here, but a professional should drag them out. If she is unwilling to try and make this marriage work, then you have no other options than to ask her to leave and move on with your life. Remember this though, your daughter needs to be number one priority in your lives.

Get rid of the computer. I know, I know, you need it... get rid of the computer. In my mind, this is a basic and undeniable defense step.

An alcoholic does not get better sitting in a room with alcohol all day every day while trying to recover. You two have a long road, and this needs to be the first step.

You two need some serious counselling and fast! If you want to make this work and by the sounds of your question you do, find someone, your minister, rabbi, priest, or someone outside of the church and get the professional help you need. I am guessing that there is some underlying issues here, but a professional should drag them out. If she is unwilling to try and make this marriage work, then you have no other options than to ask her to leave and move on with your life. Remember this though, your daughter needs to be number one priority in your lives.

And she is the number one reason I haven't kicked my wife to the curb.

My mom-in-law is even calling me crazy, telling me that she doesn't deserve me. Her own mother.


Get rid of the computer. I know, I know, you need it... get rid of the computer. In my mind, this is a basic and undeniable defense step.

An alcoholic does not get better sitting in a room with alcohol all day every day while trying to recover. You two have a long road, and this needs to be the first step.

It's already beyond that. The house computer was left at her parents house, where it will remain. I have my laptop, if she needs to check mail, she can do it on here, while I'm here.

She's already talking to this guy on the phone and claims she loves him.

She just texted me from work and is now trying to bargain with me. She wants to meet him and if it's not what she wanted/expected, she will go to counseling.

I don't think so. I refuse to be the Silver Medal or a consolation prize. She's already hurt me extremely with this affair, to the point any sane individual would have ended it. I'm willing to forgive and try to forget, but not like this.

Then you're not willing to forgive. That pretty much ends the debate.

I know that you love your wife but it doesn't seem like she loves you the way you does.

Watching her every move isn't going to help at all. In the end she's going get sick of it. Threating to take your daughter away from her isn't good in order to make someone stay with you, isn't good. It's good that she at least cares about her daughter.

Marriage takes two people wanting to be marry to each other in order for it work. She needs individual counseling besides marriage counseling. She has issues that she needs to address.
Even after all of this she stills want to meet this guy and now your becoming involve by contacting the wife. This is going be a big mess. Do you really need to prove to her that this guy is a liar in order for your wife to let him go? What is going happen if anything he told her was true? This just shows again you can't make someone be with you.

It seems that at this point she's unwilling to work on this marriage because she's emotionally attached to someone else. That's why your marriage depends on what he has to say. It shouldn't be that way. She is disregarding your feelings and montioring her computer activities isn't the way to go because she can always use one outside the house. You need to start thinking about yourself and think why do you put up this? It's like you're the 3rd wheel in this marriage.

Then you're not willing to forgive. That pretty much ends the debate.

I am, but not if she's going to drag me through the mud a second time, which is what she wants.

Here's your counter bargaining chip:

She either goes with you consistently to counseling, loses this guy's number, and commits to being with you and your daughter

OR

She can go with you to a lawyer to draw up separation papers that give you full custody of your daughter, and she can pack her bags and go to this guy permanently.

Basically, you're giving in too much to try to save things. I'm betting if she REALLY thought she could lose you because she wouldn't make changes that she'd start makign changes.

You wife does not love you. She is mental for falling in love on the computer. She is miserable with her life-as most wives will do they blame it on the husband. This online dude is promising her happiness, love, and maybe a little money.

You both need help. Tell this dude's wife that he is ruining your marriage. Then go to his house, wait for him to go to his car and break his nose. The dude knew you were married.

The problem is that this society is too . Men need to be men.

Also put your foot down on old girl.

Well, as an update on the situation:

We sat down and really talked things out. She finally cracked and admitted everything she did was wrong and will do everything she can to forget about this guy. I promised to not bring up the subject outside of the counselor's office, as I don't want wounds to start opening again.

But anyway, that said, we have an appointment to meet with a counselor next week.

Last night she came up to my work to ask me out on a date. We ended up going out last night, and had one of the best times we have had in years. The night ended with possibly the best, most passionate sex we have ever had.

While we are far from being fixed, I feel like we are making progress towards fixing our marriage.

Well I don't know much about relationships except for the one I'm in is crummy, I've been in a relationship with my guy for 2 years but I have found someone else, and don't know how to make him leave. He is so immature, and irresponsibel, cheap, and an all around butt, to me. How do I make him leave, but do it nicely?

I'm going to be blunt, so maybe you should sit down.

Trying to force a woman to stay in a marriage by threatening to take her daughter away from her IS abusive and controlling. Co-opting her own family against her also suggests that you are abusive. Taking a computer away from an adult is excessively controlling. Quitting your job and moving 500 miles to be near her after knowing her such a short time is also a red flag. The high-conflict relationship is another one.

Everything about your letter sounds like the self justification of a man who has been trying to control his wife for years and twists facts to make himself sound like an innocent victim of her weak character.

Yes, she has made some bad decisions recently and she is obviously upset. If you want her to start making better decisions, stop trying to control every aspect of her life. Who wouldn't be upset if their entire family had turned against them and they were forced to stay with someone or else lose their daughter?

Her bad decisions at this stressful time don't justify what you are doing to her. Stop trying to control her. Your relationship is clearly over. You cannot force her to love you.

Do not try to get sole custody of your daughter. That would be evil. There is no justification here for that. Your custody time should reflect the amount of time you spent alone with your daughter during the marriage. Be honest. How much time per week did you spend alone with your daughter?

If you want to do what's right, tell the truth, cooperate in an amicable divorce, do not try to punish your wife financially, do not try to tell her what to do anymore, and do not try to divide her from her own family anymore.

Glad things are working and you did not have to break that guy's face.

But it sure would make you feel good. Watching that dude lie on the ground in his own pool of blood.

But that is just me. If my wife were to cheat I would go crazy.

Glad to see your on a good path, and I wish you well.

Glad to see your on a good path, and I wish you well.

Well, things turned again. She went to see the counselor yesterday (I go tomorrow) and got into a fight with her parents last night and took out her anger on me. Now she doesn't want to even try to fix things.

While I appreciate her parents looking out for my well-being, they are only hurting things now.

For the record, threatening her by taking away our daughter was her parents doing. Everything they've done is by their own actions, claiming to do it on my behalf.

I am not an abusive, controlling husband. I'm a freaking doormat. I always lay down and let her walk over me. It's only this past week that's I've gotten my spine back and am fighting to keep my family intact.

I did not co-opt her family into turning on her. She turned them on her by her actions. They came to me when I was at home, alone. I didn't go crying to them. Once they learned about her affair, after being told a different story to get them to help her move on with this guy, they turned on her.


Everything about your letter sounds like the self justification of a man who has been trying to control his wife for years and twists facts to make himself sound like an innocent victim of her weak character.

Think how you would like, but I stand by my words. I admit that I wasn't the perfect husband, and I didn't always listen to her, but I never controlled her. As she told me, it started to feel like we were room-mates more than partners. We basically did our own things.

That said, thank you for those who actually listened to what I said and gave advice, not just read and contorted things to what they believed were fact.

Sorry the way it turned out, but now its time to handle business, and grieve later. Let the emotional dust settle, and cover your a$$, with some good LEGAL advice, just in case.

Sorry the way it turned out, but now its time to handle business, and grieve later. Let the emotional dust settle, and cover your a$$, with some good LEGAL advice, just in case.

Already there. Now my concern is setting in again. I've been talking to his (soon to be ex) wife since yesterday. She knew absolutely nothing about what was going on until we talked. In fact, she didn't "leave" him. Things were rocky, she lost her job and moved back home to get things grounded, and he was supposed to follow her once everything settled.

That aside, he has a criminal record, is a chain smoker, a heavy drinker and smokes pot (and dabbles in hard drugs, as well). All of which I will NOT have my daughter exposed to. My wife says that she will make him change, but I don't foresee that happening. I know this is true about him, because I confronted my wife about these new discoveries and she said she was well aware of it all. Great parental concern, eh?

And for the record, I am going to continue to talk with his wife, as we are both going through the same thing and she has been a great support for me, as I have for her.

I go see the counselor today, so hopefully she'll put this all into perspective for me.

Thanks again, everyone.

I see this as a simple situation.. She does not love you - LEAVE. Who cares about this new dude its her life you can't control what she does and its none of your business digging around in hers. Tell me does it make it easier for you? Protect your daughter as best you can and move on. The longer this charade goes on the more difficult things will become. End it now and you are one day closer to healed. And stop playing the blame game - no one ever wins.

This process is really just starting, so forget being a hurt husband, and start thinking like a good dad! Thats all thats important at this point.

I am not an abusive, controlling husband. I'm a freaking doormat. I always lay down and let her walk over me. It's only this past week that's I've gotten my spine back and am fighting to keep my family intact.

I am a total stranger and don't know anything about what went on in your marriage. Obviously, I could be totally wrong. I'm only telling you how it sounded from what you said. It's the way you blame everything on others and they way you write. For example, if you are "letting" her walk on you, then you are the one who gets to decide whether she walks on you. In your mind apparently, that makes you the decider and the one in charge.

Consider these two sentences:
"My husband went bowling."
"I let my husband go bowling."

They sound really different, yes?
You sound like the person in the second sentence.

You can't change that just by changing your words, by the way. It's deep within you.

It's the way you blame everything on others and they way you write. For example, if you are "letting" her walk on you, then you are the one who gets to decide whether she walks on you. In your mind apparently, that makes you the decider and the one in charge.
Very good.

It's the same as we hear on the forum here so often, "he's so controlling" or "she's so controlling." I don't get the big deal... there's a HUGE difference between being with someone who is controlling and BEING controlled. If my wife were "controlling" and I didn't participate, she wouldn't be controlling much, would she?

Folks REALLY need to stop abdicating responsibility for their lives to other people.

"Yes, but I loooooove him..."

JB, I respect your opinions and often agree with what you say. And thanks for the "agree."

But I don't agree with your interpretation of my comments. I was not saying that the OP was responsible for his own oppression. I am not convinced he is oppressed, so he can't be responsible for something that is not happening.

I'll grant that people are sometimes complicit in their own mistreatment. I know this happens. But often the "doormats" are just making the best of a bad situation day to day. Controlling people (of both sexes) can and do coerce loved ones through substantive threats against children, pets, or friends and family, which they carry out if they don't get compliance. (If your husband/wife really will do something cruel to your son if you go bowling, it's rational, if sad, to decide not to go.) So being a doormat often results from not wanting to see your children, friends, and pets (or even some valued object like a car or painting) get hurt--not because "I loooooove him..." to use your apparently sarcastic phrase.

To clarify what I WAS saying: I am saying that the OP doesn't sound oppressed, if, by his own statement, he is "lets" her do things. I think he is so used to thinking in terms of what he lets her do that it just slipped out. I was pointing out a single example (from many) of his choice of words--that in his mind he "lets" her do things, whether it's to use the internet or walk all over him. In his mind, she is not really a free agent, but someone who is SUPPOSED to do only what he decides is allowable in the relationship.

It is also classic for controlling partners to not let go in a divorce, not because they are deeply in love (in fact they are very angry), but because it feels like they are losing a battle and they do not like to lose. In his mind, she only gets to leave if he "lets" her and he hasn't decided to do that so far.

I wasn't interpreting your comments. I understood your point. Mine is a corollary of my own, not a correction of yours. I'm sorry if it read that way.

We're suggesting two parts of the same idea. Perhaps my sidebar should be ignored altogether within this specific thread.

I wasn't interpreting your comments. I understood your point. Mine is a corollary of my own, not a correction of yours. I'm sorry if it read that way.

We're suggesting two parts of the same idea.

Okay! I just wanted to be understood. :)
I do take your own point.

Well, you guys were onto something. There are underlying reasons to her 'roaming,' but not an abusive/controlling husband. More like an inattentive husband.

After two weeks of counseling, it became abundantly clear that our marriage was lacking a key aspect, communication. Anytime there was a problem, we were afraid of confronting each other and instead buried the issue.

I also admit, I was a lazy husband. I didn't help as much as I should, both in maintaining our home and family.

This is why she started talking to this other guy, to fill this void and to escape the problems we never confronted.

This past week, she claimed to both the counselor and myself that she broke things off with this other guy and is willing to work to fix our marriage. As far as myself, I've already stopped being so lazy and we have already started communicating much more. We are each seeing the counselor twice a week, once alone and again as a couple.

Our counselor first thought that after the first meetings with us that she didn't think we would fix our marriage. But after our most recent couples session, she emailed us both that night and said she saw a completely different picture when we actually opened up to one another.

Thanks again to those who helped.

Im glad to hear that things are going better now. I don't think that you being a "lazy" husband is an excuse for her emotional affair. But it is good that you are both realizing that there are things you need to work on to improve your marriage.
My next "point" is kind of unimportant at the moment because you guys are working things out but I want to share it anyway. I don't think you should use your daughter as a barganing chip... neither one of you should threaten the other with paternal rights. If you were to split up then you can take it court and let the court decide the custody... would you really want your wife to still be your wife only because she is afraid of losing her daughter? Not to mention it is not fair to your kid. And parents should never stay together "for the sake of the kids"... the kids will know that the love isn't truly there and they will see you fighting all the time... and typically they will seek that kind of relationship when they are older even if just subconsciencly. Like I said... it doesn't really apply to you anymore since things are getting better. I can speak from experience in that it will take some time to get over this "fantasy crush" that she had so be patient. I truly hope things work out for you guys. Keep up with the therapy and praying. And definitely keep up the communication at home. Good luck!

Im glad to hear that things are going better now. I don't think that you being a "lazy" husband is an excuse for her emotional affair. But it is good that you are both realizing that there are things you need to work on to improve your marriage.
My next "point" is kinda unimportant at the moment because you guys are working things out but I want to share it anyways. I don't think you should use your daughter as a barganing chip...neither one of you should threaten the other with paternal rights. If you were to split up then you can take it court and let the court decide the custody....would you really want your wife to still be your wife only because she is afraid of losing her daughter? Not to mention it is not fair to your kid. And parents should never stay together "for the sake of the kids"...the kids will know that the love isnt truely there and they will see you fighting all the time...and typically they will seek that kind of relationship when they are older even if just subconsciencly. Like I said...it doesn't really apply to you anymore since things are getting better. I can speak from experience in that it will take some time to get over this "fantasy crush" that she had so be patient. I truely hope things work out for you guys. Keep up with the therapy and praying. And definitely keep up the communication at home. Good luck!!

Thanks, but once again, I spoke too soon.

While the whole custody issue is out the window, the counseling didn't amount to jack. The 'progress' that we made in our joint session, the emotion that she showed to both the counselor and myself, was merely an act. Even our counselor was shocked by this revelation, and I am left with another knife in my back. And she still wants to keep our friendship intact... lies and deceit aren't the way to do so.

What has happened??

What has happened???

As I stated before, her family was out for blood for her using them.

She ended up moving back in and things were semi-resolved. As a sign that I was still at her side, I put myself in the cross hairs for her and asked her family to back off and give us some space. So now half of her family is pissed at me for defending her. I almost gave my cellphone back to her parents (we're under their family plan and they turned her phone off), as a sign that I was on her side, if she doesn't have a phone from them, I don't want mine either.

I've been helping out around the house. I moved all of the furniture and boxes back into the house. I unpacked and sorted most of it. I've been doing dishes twice a day , cleaning the living/dining rooms and laundry. Pretty much, I became the housewife, while still working and taking care of our daughter. I'm showing 200% devotion to fixing our marriage.

We started seeing a counselor a few weeks ago, individually and together. We finally had our first couples session this past Sunday and she showed a lot of 'real' emotion. We held hands almost the entire time, and at one point we were to look into each others eyes. This gaze must have lasted 30 minutes. As we looked at each other, we were asked questions about one another by the counselor. Then we were asked where we saw ourselves in 25 years, when our daughter is our age(s). We both said, laughingly, "As the crotchety couple that argue over stupid things, but still together and really happy." At this point, we both welled up.

We were given a homework assignment, four to be exact.

1. Spend 30 minutes a day, holding hands and looking at each other and just talk about whatever.

2. 1-2 times a week, play a board game together. Something to bond over, either working together or against each other.

3. Spend 30 minutes a night just dancing dancing together.

4. Spend time as a family, with our daughter.

We left the counselor's, holding hands and had a great afternoon. We went to lunch, went shopping for a few new board games and picked up our daughter from her grandparents'.

That night, she made dinner and at her request, I set-up her computer. She said she just wanted to check her email and possibly try to work on fixing our budget. Then her attitude 180'ed.

She said she would only be online for an hour. She spent about an hour online, chatting with her friends, checking her email, etc. Apparently not the "affair guy," as she claims she hasn't talked to him since last Friday, when she "told him it was over." I sat on the couch and patiently watched some quality Fox programming (:p).

She got away from the computer and laid on the other couch, all mopey. She said that she didn't feel like doing any of our "homework." That newly found feeling from that morning was gone.

The whole night went the same way, with us eventually going to bed and not really talking. We snuggled at night, but she claimed it was only because it was cold in the house.

Monday, same deal, mostly. Things were okay in the morning. She was running late, so I got up and helped her get ready to go. I had the day off work, but had a meeting with the counselor that morning. We ended up having a good lunch together, and went looking at getting a new cell phone plan of our own. She went back to work, I picked up our daughter from the grandparents and went to look for a dining room table, as the one we had belonged to her grandmother, who refuses to let us have it back because of the aforementioned issues.

When she got home from work, I had dinner ready for her. While we were eating, the subject somehow turned ugly. She said that I was fighting an uphill battle on a greased slope. She then clarified by saying that she doesn't want to try to fix our marriage. :confused:

I immediately contacted our counselor and she was just as shocked as I was. I don't know what happened, but this is what happened two weeks ago when she told me she wanted to fix things, and then changed her mind two days later because she "thought it over and decided against it."

So, here we are. Our counselor is at a complete loss for words, as am I. I've been fighting back tears since last night, unsuccessfully at times. I don't know where to turn from here. I feel like I was lied to, led on, deceived and used.

I wrote up a rather brutally honest email to my wife, sent it to the counselor to check it first and she said to send it to my wife. So we'll see what comes of it when I get home from work tonight.

In the meantime, I'm trying to keep a strong face around my daughter. She's seen enough crying and suffering this past month than I wanted her to see her entire life.

You are reacting to one bad conversation? I think you need to be more patient with this process of fixing the marriage. She's not going to come back in two weeks. This could take months.

Also, how much time does your daughter spend with her grandparents?

Get rid of the computer.

Why am I getting the impression she wants you to leave, and she stays in the house??

Get rid of the computer won't solve the issue because I am sure she have other ways to get contact with him. If she starts calling him on the phone, you can't hide the phone.

It seems that she no longer wants to be in the marriage and that why she left in the first place and only came back when her parents threaten to take her daughter away that was a red flag and she can't even commit to counseling, another red flag. Even the counselor see through her, more red flags.

In the end you have to do what is right for you and your daughter. Staying with her isn't good for you at all. Again, she's playing games but you don't have to be part of it. Again, do what is right for you and your child.

It good that you realize your faults but a marriage takes two people in order for it to work and at this time she don't want it to.

You are reacting to one bad conversation? I think you need to be more patient with this process of fixing the marriage. She's not going to come back in two weeks. This could take months.

Also, how much time does your daughter spend with her grandparents?

That's one thing she asked me Sunday night, right when her attitude started shifting. "How long is this supposed to take?" I kept telling her that it is going to take time and commitment to fix the damage.

I want to make it work and will have infinite patience. I told her I don't expect any sense of "normal" for at least a month, and she shouldn't either. I have a feeling that she really wants to fix things, but is unsure if it will work out.

During the week, whenever we're both at work (3-4 days/week) she spends the day with her grandparents, with an occasional sleepover.

Im glad that your realize it is going to take time... and honestly probably more then a month. I would ask your couselor to try to convey that to your wife. That these things take time as the problems didn't occur overnight and they won't be fixed overnight. Maybe ask your counselor which of the four homework items is most important and ask if she thinks it would be all right to work on just one to start. Maybe your wife is feeling overwhelmed with this and therefore having just one item to work on for awhile would be better. Or maybe atternate throughout the week. One night play a game, the next sit and talk, the next night dance together, etc.
Im so sorry to hear that things haven't been going as good as you would like. I hope your wife gets on board with this soon and you can work it out. Keep staying strong for your daughter... try to shelter her from any more pain... it sounds like you are doing a good job of this already! Good luck!

A few interesting follow-ups.

I finally decided to accept the pending divorce, instead of fighting it any longer. We were to go this coming Sunday to see our counselor (who has a background in marriage/divorce law) to do the paperwork. We were going to split custody and end it civilly

Not now. I discovered this morning, through some investigation, that this past Friday she engaged in a serious online sex session, while admitting that our daughter was home. She claimed that she didn't even touch the computer that night, as she was "watching our daughter."

And another neat discovery. He told her that he wanted to have kids with her (the comment implied having their "own" next christmas) and she had "tears of joy" over it. Keep in mind, she wants to have this guy's kids, but has still not even met him.

At this point, I want her to get a mental evaluation. I don't trust her with anything, not even with watching our daughter. We're moving out tonight, when I get home from work. If she wants to ruin her life, so be it. But she's not ruining my daughter's in the process.

Do what you have to for your child!

She realizes now, that if this goes to court, I will more than likely win custody.

I just learned yesterday, finally by her own admission, that she did indeed meet with this guy a few weeks ago. She claims that after she dropped me off at work, she met him at church (catholic too, how ironic) and then went out to lunch and that is all. The kicker? She took our daughter with her to meet this "guy from the internet" after I specifically told her that I do not want her exposed to this guy.

She admitted to kissing him, so how is our daughter supposed to interpret that, considering we had kissed in front of her hours before?

Her defense in all of this is that leaving the house is a dangerous prospect, you can get hit by a car, mugged, etc and what she did is no worse. I asked her what her plan was if this guy turned violent, and she only said "he didn't, so there's no need to worry about it." I asked her again and she said "I have my cellphone, I would have called the police." To which I replied "and if he assaulted you, knocking you out and kidnapping our daughter, then what?" Her reply, "It was broad daylight, nobody would do something like that when it's light out. If something would have happened, it would have been dealt with." "How so?" She couldn't give me an answer.

Her rationale is insanely unbelievable. She endangered our daughter's well-being to satisfy her own agenda, and feels no regret just because he didn't do anything crazy. I informed the grandparents of this last night and they are furious. Her own mother told her it would be better if she just signed over her parental rights, got into the car and left town.

In addition, she just got fired from her job yesterday, so her plan of kicking me out and paying the bills on her own just went out the window. Ironically, I was planning on moving out yesterday and taking my daughter to her grandparents'. But now, what do I do?

At this point, we are all thinking she needs some serious psychiatric help. Any other advice?

First, she can't just sign over her rights. In most cases a judge will only allow a parent to clear way for adoption. Otherwise, she has to be an extreme danger to her child and even though what she did was wrong, by taking her daughter with her, it doesn't make her unfit but shows her judgement was bad.

I think you should stick to your plan and move out with your daughter. This situation is unhealthy for you and your daughter. It clear that your wife intents on being with this guy and to be honest I don't think she's crazy, maybe not thinking clearly, but it clear about what she wants to do. Get out of this web and free yourself because there's nothing for you to do. Save yourself and you can't always save someone from jumping out a cliff.

Make sure the separation you get when you leave is a LEGAL separation.

Otherwise, as her spouse, you may be responsible for half of her bills/expenses, even though you're not living with her---and that would include credit card debt from flights to see this guy, new clothes, mortgage, car payments, etc. You name it, you're half responsible for it, because you're married.

Take your daughter, leave, see a lawyer, and get a legal separation.

At this point, we are all thinking she needs some serious psychiatric help. Any other advice?

The same as I gave before. Take a deep breath and stop demonizing your wife. It is NOT good for you daughter to be removed from her mother. And your own need for drama is escalating this situation and making it what it is.

Well, it's done.

She loves this guy, and has so long before I knew it, long before she asked me about having another baby. She asked me that just because she thought I would say no, and confirm her belief that she doesn't love me anymore.

She wants this guy, and has admitted that they are planning on marrying soon after our divorce is finalized, with kids of their own to follow soon after. May I remind you that she's known this guy for six months and is still married himself?

I'm kicking her out of my house tonight. Fortunately, I still have that note she left the day she moved out, saying she is leaving and wants NOTHING from me. No alimony or child support. My lawyer says that it will hold up in court, if it comes to it.

She claims that she is acting in the best interest of our daughter, but I find that this destructive behavior proves otherwise.

Either way, we are divorcing, I tried to save our marriage and she doesn't want it. So she can deal with whatever her choices deal her, without me and without our daughter.

Well congratulations on taking the first step in a long path to independence and hopefully a happier life for all concerned. It was certainly a very toxic situation.

Just for your information, you cannot legally withhold child support, nor can your wife waive her children's right to it. Child support is the right of the children.

Well congratulations on taking the first step in a long path to independence and hopefully a happier life for all concerned. It was certainly a very toxic situation.

Just for your information, you cannot legally withhold child support, nor can your wife waive her children's right to it. Child support is the right of the children.

Good to know, thank! But this may still be helpful in the case of a custody battle, in addition to the other endangerment details.

Only time will tell how far and deep this thing will go.

When she later realizes she's made a mistake with this guy, or second thoughts or whatever, you need to keep this one thing in mind...

She didn't leave you FOR this other guy. That's just the rationalization she's using to crap all over her "life" commitment with you. It's just moment-to-moment ridiculousness.

She left you. Period. That's what you have to keep centered. She woke up and decided "no more".

So no matter WHAT she goes through next with him or anyone else, that has nothing to do with you. You should ignore all the frivolous details. They're irrelevant.

She left you. She did this. It's about nothing other than you and her and she chose the door. Don't let that fact be clouded in the future by ANYTHING.

And I support your custody position as well. Talk to your lawyer about this fact. Her ability to put strangers ahead of her closest family is something a court should made to consider.

Last night, the levy broke.

We were still living together, trying to be civil. She lost her job and I wasn't about to kick her out. We had an understanding about boundaries, one being that she can talk to him, but no visits.

She crossed that boundary yesterday. She had him come in to visit while I was at work. She told me about it before I left for work, and he was supposed to pick her up at home. I was upset about it, understandably, and made her give me her house keys and made her wait on the porch for him to show up. I figured I'd deal with it. I told her I get home at 8:15 and I'll be there to let her in, as I wasn't about to make her stay outside during single digits.

Long story short, she wasn't there when she would be, but called a few hours later pissed off that I left and went to her parents' house. Things got ugly and the whole thing ended up with her dad confronting the lovers in the parking lot of the gas station down the street from our house.

Cut to the chase, she wanted into the house to get her stuff. I let her in, she packed her stuff into his car and she left for Ohio with him. No word from her at all since. We don't know if she made it there okay or not. It has me a bit worried, but I'm also relieved.

She abandoned her daughter three days before Christmas for some guy she met on the internet.

My attorney already said that a lot of her actions are really going to hurt her chances at even partial custody. We shall see.

I really hate to take her mom from her, but my daughter deserves better at this point, as her mom has been acting extremely irrational and selfish.

So, until I get my things settled, the grandparents are taking care of my daughter. I'm spending most of my free-time here with her, but will be taking a good bit of time tomorrow to get things straightened out. I'm moving out of that house, as I can't afford to stay there on my income alone, but fortunately I have a few offers from friends to stay with them until I get back on my feet.

Thanks to everyone for all of the advice. This is now in the hands of my lawyer and the courts. With all of the recent events, I was told that this should be a fairly stacked divorce/custody battle.

I didn't want it to get dirty, but her actions have brought this out. It's not just myself, it's her entire family that she's given the finger to.

When a boil comes to a head, it itches until you bust it.

She has made her bed, and you have your daughter, YOU WON ALREADY. The rest is just procedure.

Do whatever it takes to protect, and love your child, even if you do have to get down, and dirty with it.

Last night, the levy broke.

We were still living together, trying to be civil. She lost her job and I wasn't about to kick her out. We had an understanding about boundaries, one being that she can talk to him, but no visits.

She crossed that boundary yesterday. She had him come in to visit while I was at work. She told me about it before I left for work, and he was supposed to pick her up at home. I was upset about it, understandably, and made her give me her house keys and made her wait on the porch for him to show up. I figured I'd deal with it. I told her I get home at 8:15 and I'll be there to let her in, as I wasn't about to make her stay outside during single digits.

Long story short, she wasn't there when she would be, but called a few hours later pissed off that I left and went to her parents' house. Things got ugly and the whole thing ended up with her dad confronting the lovers in the parking lot of the gas station down the street from our house.

Cut to the chase, she wanted into the house to get her stuff. I let her in, she packed her stuff into his car and she left for Ohio with him. No word from her at all since. We don't know if she made it there okay or not. It has me a bit worried, but I'm also relieved.

She abandoned her daughter three days before Christmas for some guy she met on the internet.

My attorney already said that alot of her actions are really going to hurt her chances at even partial custody. We shall see.

I really hate to take her mom from her, but my daughter deserves better at this point, as her mom has been acting extremely irrational and selfish.

So, until I get my things settled, the grandparents are taking care of my daughter. I'm spending most of my free-time here with her, but will be taking a good bit of time tomorrow to get things straightened out. I'm moving out of that house, as I can't afford to stay there on my income alone, but fortunately I have a few offers from friends to stay with them until I get back on my feet.

Thanks to everyone for all of the advice. This is now in the hands of my lawyer and the courts. With all of the recent events, I was told that this should be a fairly stacked divorce/custody battle.

I didn't want it to get dirty, but her actions have brought this out. It's not just myself, it's her entire family that she's given the finger to.

Leaving her daughter three days before Christmas is almost unforgivable and something your wife will one day deeply regret. I would do everything possible to prevent your daughter being left with your wife and her boyfriend unsupervised until you feel certain your daughter will be safe. If I were you, I would see a lawyer as soon as possible.

Leaving her daughter three days before Christmas is almost unforgivable and something your wife will one day deeply regret. I would do everything possible to prevent your daughter being left with your wife and her boyfriend unsupervised until you feel certain your daughter will be safe. If I were you, I would see a lawyer as soon as possible.

I contacted one today, had a consultation. I just need to scrape the cash for a retainer. She is jobless, and I just found out from the other guy's wife (soon to be ex) that he lives in the worst part of Columbus. She's in for quite a wake-up call.

BTW - I'm writing a book/screenplay after all of this. Anyone want to invest in it? ;)

I contacted one today, had a consultation. I just need to scrape the cash for a retainer. She is jobless, and I just found out from the other guy's wife (soon to be ex) that he lives in the worst part of Columbus. She's in for quite a wake-up call.

BTW - I'm writing a book/screenplay after all of this. Anyone want to invest in it? ;)


You need to beg, borrow or steal to pay your lawyer to keep your daughter protected from what sounds like a seriously scary character.

****

Then write a screenplay. How about Jack Nicholson playing his part? ;)
Quote: On whether he (Jack Nicholson) lied to Anjelica Huston: "I lived with Anjelica. Of course I lied to her. It's the other woman I would never lie to. You only lie to two people in your life: your girlfriend and the police. Everybody else you tell the truth to." --Vanity Fair magazine, April 1994

The daughter isn't with her dad either. It looks to me like the both parents abandoned her. I'm seeing custody going to the grandparents the way things are going.

The daughter isn't with her dad either. It looks to me like the both parents abandoned her. I'm seeing custody going to the grandparents the way things are going.

How so? At this time, it is better she stays here with them, as am I also staying here for the time being. My mom-in-law asked me tonight if she thinks I can raise her by myself, I told her I know I can, and she said she agreed.

I just need to get myself on stable ground, which should take a few weeks to do.

What you don't seem to realize, our living was beyond the means of just one income. Once she lost her job and refused to get a new one, we slowly slipped behind. Now here I am, still paying the bills by myself, which are beyond my income. Fortunately, none of it is debt, just current bills/utilities/rent.

So rectifying the situation is as simple as finding a smaller house/apartment that is much more budget friendly, while at the same time searching for a better job. Still, this could take several weeks to do, and I would prefer to have my daughter in a stable environment while I get it straightened out.

I'm still spending every free minute with her, even my lunch breaks. I will never abandon her.

I read your story and I'm so sorry that this happened.

Your main concern right now should be your precious little girl. Try to make this Christmas special, it has to be hard on her, so very hard. Lots of extra hugs, extra kisses and I love yous.

Even though her mother abandoned her, she probably still loves her mom and it hurts. She needs you more than ever right now, and you need her too.

So, big smile, for your little girl, make the best of it, get back on your feet and move forward. :)

Merry Christmas.

What are you saving? Not the marriage. That has apparently long ago disappeared. Not your daughter. Growing up in a home without love will ruin her. She needs to know what a real relationship is or she will wind up like the two of you, in an unsatisfying marriage full of contempt for each other. If your wife is not willing to go to counciling (and maybe even if she is), there is nothing worth staying for. Regardless of who's fault it is/was, the relationship is damaged and it would take more than she is willing to spend to repair it.
Let's look at it another way. Your marriage is a broken VHS player and your daughter is te TV. If your VHS player breaks, are you going to fix it? No. It would probably cost more to fix than a new one, and it's not even near the best thing out there. You will be spending a lot of money and the TV will only be able to play VHSs. Buy one of those blueray vhs player combos and the TV will be able to reach its full potential. So basically, move on and look for a better relationship so your child will know what a healthy relationship is where 2 people love each other instead of 2 people who hate each other and are fighting all the time. Sorry this reply seems rushed, but I'm REALLY tired :-).

***I didn't read the replies because I didn't want them to influence what I originally thought, so sorry if this is too late***

Ok so OBVIOUSLY I showed up fashionably late to this one. Disregard previous post.


The only thing I have to add here is taken from my frequent viewing of House.
Emotion by definition is irrational. She is acting crazy, and will continue to do so, because she is falsley mistaking her emotions for her thoughts, or her heart for her brain. She feels like rush of newness and she doesn't stop to consult the other part of her that SHOULD be making the decisions. So really, she isn't acting surprisingly at all. She's definitely still insane, but in a sane sort of way. I am still at a loss for why someone would leave their daughter like that though. I've never understood that sort of thing. Best of luck, and sorry I'm too late to tell you what you already know :-/

Just a quick update on things:

I talked to the ex a few times, although very briefly, over the past 3 weeks. Things were surprisingly civil.

About a week and a half ago, after consulting with the rest of the family, I made her an offer. I basically told her that I will give her an uncontested divorce and not drag her butt through the mud over the adultery and abandonment issues. The catch is she has to sign over custody of our daughter to me, with limited visitations. She took a few days to think about it, before reluctantly agreeing. She had talked to her mom on the phone earlier that day, while I was over there. She was apparently pleading with her mom, and her mom hung up on her. Two hours later, she called me and agreed to my terms. She knew she really hung herself out after her own mother hung up on her.

I go to meet with my attorney on the 20th. I'm going to run this by him and see if there's going to be any possible issues to arise from it, and if not, I'll have him draw up the paperwork to send to her.

On the homefront, things have been pretty good. My daughter hasn't even mentioned her mom since this whole ordeal began, which is a relief. She went back to school this week and has been doing really well. As for myself, I've been feeling pretty good about all this since she left. I haven't even thought about dating again, yet, but the lack of that companionship makes for lonely nights. But that will pass in time. At least it's giving me time to catch up on my back-log of DVDs I haven't watched yet.

Thanks again to everyone for their advice and support!

You sound like you have a whole new outlook on life, that's great.

Remember to keep an eye on your daughter, it often takes kids a while to realize that mommy and daddy aren't getting back together and that everything has changed. She's still young, and probably doesn't understand or has a childish hope that things will work out, so keep an eye out.

Once again, I'm glad things seem to be working out. Keep us posted on your progress. :)

Wow. Quite the saga.

Two quick points. You have to be twice the parent you were before now, and don't lose sight of that commitment. Be sure to keep her grandparents (wife's parents) very active in her life - they should prove to be an emotional and social anchor if what you have written is true.

Did she finally meet him and find out he was a disgusting dirty old pervert? Most people wouldn't put up with what you have. You get 10gold stars for your behavior. I would have thrown her out on the street. Good job brokenpinata. Keep up the counseling.

Did she finally meet him and find out he was a disgusting dirty old pervert? Most people wouldnt put up with what you have. You get 10gold stars for your behavior. I would have thrown her out on the street. Good job brokenpinata. Keep up the counseling.

Yeah, she ended up moving to Ohio with this guy four days before Christmas, leaving our daughter with me.


As for an update:

This mess is almost over. Divorce papers are filed, and we're going to talk tonight online and work out the custody arrangements so I can have my lawyer draft the agreement. At this point, she is giving me full custody, and wants every other weekend and half of the summer, in addition to flexible holidays.

My daughter is doing great, despite her just recently discovering couch gymnastics, which resulted in a visit to her uncle, the dentist. But don't worry, she's just fine, just a few bumps. She's still doing really well in school, and still hasn't mentioned her mother at all. She has started back-talking a good bit though.

As for myself, I've kind of started dating again. Well, more like spending time with a girl I used to work with. She was there for me throughout this whole ordeal. The feelings are there, but her mom doesn't approve of me, supposedly because I have "too much baggage", which is really hindering things. If we weren't already practically best friends, I would just walk away, but if I do that now, who knows if our friendship will survive.

Always drama for me, it seems. But that's another issue.

Thanks again everyone for your input, suggestions and concerns.