McCain was lambasted, lampooned and harpooned over saying the fundamentals of the economy were strong. Looks like Barney Frank agrees with him (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2008/10/20/echoing-mccain-barney-frank-says-fundamentals-are-better-psycholog).


Barney Frank: 'The Fundamentals Are Better Than the Psychology'
Photo of Mark Finkelstein.
By Mark Finkelstein (Bio | Archive)
October 20, 2008 - 20:25 ET

Shades of McCain from an unlikely corner.. .

When at the beginning of the current financial mess John McCain declared that "the fundamentals of the economy are strong," he was roundly lambasted by the MSM, while the Obama campaign called his statement "an enormous mistake."

So, should we expect the liberal media and the Obama campaign to go after Barney Frank.. . Now that he has said something remarkably similar? Discussing the markets with Maria Bartiromo on CNBC this afternoon, Frank declared: "I think it's clear that the fundamentals are better than the psychology."

View video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Mazjm_A5k).

While he was at it, Frank echoed McCain on another important issue. Like the Republican candidate, the Dem chairman of the House Financial Services Committee indicated it would be a mistake in the current economic climate to raise taxes on the richest Americans, as Obama has proposed.


MARIA BARTIROMO: So you agree: taxes should go up, then, on the top earners, even in this slow environment.

BARNEY FRANK: No. Not right away. I want to wait a year.

BARTIROMO: Will you ask [Obama] to push the plan back then? Because he wants to raise taxes as soon as he gets in office, correct?

FRANK: Well, I do not think he has said recently he's going to do it as soon as he gets in office.

Really? When Obama told Joe the Plumber he wants to "spread the wealth around," there was nothing to indicate he meant later, not now. The official Obama website similarly suggests nothing about a delay:


Obama will ask the wealthiest 2% of families to give back a portion of the tax cuts they have received over the past eight years to ensure we are restoring fairness and returning to fiscal responsibility.

Obama might have Colin Powell, but McCain has Frank! To be sure, the Dem congressman expressed formal support for Obama, but on the big economic issues of the day, Barney was singing John's song.

Barney agrees with McCain on the economy, Biden agrees that McCain is more qualified to be president, just who is on Obama's side in his own party? And why is Newsbusters the only one reporting this? A Google News search just now yielded one hit, Newsbusters.

Tax the Rich
Feed the poor,
Till there ain't no
Rich no more

All these people are just going to sit around while Barney Frank and Obama plunders their wealth.
The 400 Richest Americans sorted by Rank - Forbes.com (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/54/400list08_The-400-Richest-Americans_Rank.html)

I wonder if they will be called traitors by Joe Biden when they move their wealth off shore.

After these rich and affluent people have moved their riches to another country the poor folks left here in the US can take turns giving each other a job.

These so called rich people are not just rich they are notably more ambitious than the poor and therefore will keep returning their riches back into the economy, unless it is all taxed away.

Indeed let

Napoleon approached Moscow towards victory and the Ruskies burned the city down denying him his covetted prize. In 'Atlas Shrugged' Francisco d'Anconia blew up the copper mine rather than deliver the fruits of his labor to the socialists.

Hello wrongwingers:

Now, I'm not a fellow who likes to pay taxes... But, YOUR REPUBLICAN president, the esteemed dufus in chief, just GAVE away $700 BILLION or so, of YOUR tax dollars.

Don't you think you have to pay it back?? No, you don't, do you?

excon

I don't think you found any of us that thought the bailout was a good idea.

Frank illustrates how clueless Obama really is . Even Frank admits it is a bad idea to increase taxes when the economy is in a downturn .

Hello again, tom:

Good idea or not, the money is GONE - SPENT - KABLOOIE. Somebody has to pay it back, whether they want to or not.

Actually, I'm getting the sense that you Republicans think you can just print up a bunch of money, spend it willy nilly and tomorrow be damned.

Hmmmpf. YOU sound like DEMOCRATS.

excon

I got to hope all the optimistic predictions by the proponents of the plan... that it will pay for itself ;come to fruition... or else I agree that it will have to be paid off somehow.

Does Obama propose to reduce the size of his very ambitious spending proposals that are estimated to cost at least another $ trillion because of the bailout debt ?

Nope . But McCain does propose across the board spending freezes except for essential services.

So who has the better plan ?

So who has the better plan ?Hello again, tom:

Well, as long as we're divvying up the spoils, instead of paying back what we borrowed, I think the rich have enough, thank you very much.

And, nooooo. I don't think we should "spread it around", unless you think fixing that bridge you drive on every day is "spreading it around". But, of course, you guy's aren't speaking English right now. You're speaking political speak, where "spreading it around" is code for don't vote for the black guy.

excon

Again the race card doesn't apply here no matter how hard you try to bring it up.

Do you really think that all those rich guys on the Forbes list I posted will sit idly by while being plundered ? Lol Even Warren Buffet who supports Obama knows better than to leave his income exposed to the rates Obama proposes.

Fixing bridges is legitimate use of revenues .The Constitutions says so. But even Keynes himself would not increase taxes during and economic downturn . What will Obama do ? Put us all in green cover-alls to work in his new WPA ?

Keynes himself would not increase taxes during and economic downturn.Hello again, tom:

Well, the good Lord Keynes hadn't witnessed the biggest rip off the middle class like we have...

So, I think the wealthy bazillioners, like the Wall Street wizz kids who made BILLIONS selling OTC derivatives ought to have THEIR pockets picked...

Yes, I know all about shifting bread to the Cayman Islands. I DID that for wealthy clients... Having done it, I know there's a way to STOP it... So, if the gubment WANTS its share of the bazillions, it's there for the taking.

excon

I'm shocked that a self proclaimed libertarian takes these types of positions.To take money from the most successful members of society and have a governing class redistribute it as they see fit is the antithisis of libertarianism .

If you can find some criminal activity by the "wizz kids " that enriched them then by all means frog march them out of here ,along with the bribe takers like Frank .

I'm pragmatic enough to realize that the modern nanny state is probably etched in stone ;carved on tablets forever but that doesn't prevent me from opposing it's expansion ;or the drift further towards socialism and that I intend to do .

I'm shocked that a self proclaimed libertarian takes these types of positions.Hello again, tom:

Even libertarians understand that government has to be paid for. But, as long as we don't have a FLAT tax, the burden to pay is shifted around for political expediency.

So, as long as politicians can manipulate taxes, so as to reward the richest of the rich, at the expense of the poorest of the poor, I'm all for picking that rich guys pocket - YES SIR.

But, in truth, we'd be just retrieving what was plundered, and I'm ALL for that. So, I'm not talking about TAXES. I'm talking about RESTITUTION.

excon

Restitution as you state it is a broad brush that paints a whole "class" of acheivers as criminals who exploit the "poorest of the poor" . That is Marxist dialect pure and simple .

Do you think Warren Buffett and Bill Gates got rich by exploiting the poor ? Why should they be subject to "restitution " ? I was very clear that if any wrong doing happened by the neuveau Masters of the Universe then they should pay dearly for it.
That doesn't explain Obama's desires to take almost half of the inclome from a successful " plumber " ;electrician ;pizza restaurant owner ;whatever sweating out a $250,000 income to give to people who pay Zero taxes.

That doesn't explain Obama's desires to take almost half of the inclome from a successful " plumber " ;electrician ;pizza restaurant owner ;whatever sweating out a $250,000 income to give to people who pay Zero taxes.Hello tom:

Well, I guess you drank some more of that right wing koolaid, dincha?

Where I come from (and I live in a VERY cosmopolitan city), people who make a quarter of a million $$$'s a year ain't sweating nothing...

But, like all good Republicans who are seeing their grip on power slip away, probably not to return in your lifetime, you're fudging the truth. You make it sound like Obama is going to take the entire $250,000, and give it to the poor and undeserving...

But, the fact is, the guy who makes a quarter of a million dollars a year will see his taxes go up to where they were BEFORE the dufus lowered them. I don't recall that he was destitute at that time.

What I DO recall about that time, is that WE, that's YOU & ME, had a balanced national budget... But, that ain't no good, huh?

excon

And where I live a skilled worker ;plumber ,electrician ,mechanic ,who is putting in the time...
Let alone a small business owner doing double time to keep their business operating can easily earn $250 M .

No I don't think they should be punished for their efforts. I guess we fundamentally disagree. I never saw a successful business owner who did not bust their a** .

But those people who employ millions of people around the country should bear the burden to balance a budget full of entitlement givaways .

Edit :

Thomas J. Stanley and William D. Danko ;authors of 'The Millionaire Next Door 'describe most of them as ordinary people who live modest lives .What distinguishes them are frugality, disciplined investment habits, and entrepreneurial risk-taking. "Self-employed people make up less than 20 percent of the workers in America but account for two-thirds of the millionaires."

http://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Americas/dp/1563523302
But Obama is targeting even people who aren't millionaires . Obama targets these and people who aspire to be at that level like Joe the Plumber . So although he has carefully targeted a small percent of the population ;if you add up all those who aspire towards that goal you are actually targeting a pretty large voting block that includes many Democrats who may be looking at Obama in a different light after he exposed his true intentions of redistribution .

Most plumbers are not just guys clearing your drains, nor are most electricians guys installing a new light switch. Their bread and butter is in jobs, contracted work on new construction and renovations. Sure, we install security systems for individuals, inspect extinguishers for home based day cares and sell smoke detectors, but our money is in new construction. How much do you think it costs to install a new fire alarm system in a hospital addition? How much do you think it costs to install a fire suppression system in a university computer room? How much to plumb or wire a new Wal-Mart?

Obama is being deceptive here and wants us all to think he's just talking about that guy that clears your drains and installs a new switch but that isn't the case. Joe the Plumber wants to buy a business that I'm sure wants to get the contract for the new Wal-Mart, the hospital wing and the new college dorm and put some people to work. In this economic climate why should we make it harder for him to do just that?

The economy is very poor. Besides John McCain and Barney Frank, several other politicians have claimed that the our economy has a strong foundation. Remember folks that senators make out pretty good on payday so judge for yourself by the family next door, not in the senator's neighborhood. We have layoffs happening in Vegas right now, second only to the day after 9/11. As of last week Nevada led the nation in unemployment.

Just a note on "Joe the plumber." Joe owes back taxes, and according to some sources he doesn't even have a plumber licence. John McCain is so out of sorts in this campaign that he spent the better part of the last debate focusing on someone that's not even a model citizen.

Joe Biden has gone on record saying that McCain has had plenty of experience of not getting things done. What Biden has suggested, using that measuring stick, is that George Bush has had more experience than Barack Obama, that is more experienced tearing down our nation. That he (Biden) was honored to become the VP candidate and to work with Barack Obama. In my analysis the more honest politician between John McCain and Joe Biden, is JOE BIDEN. He admits being a Washington insider.

My father and his wife just finished up their visit. There's one thing about living in Las Vegas that you come to expect, and that's being the unofficial tour guide. Anyway I've got a list of things to do, besides my regular upcoming work schedule. Everybody have a great day and I'll try to check in when possible.

Just a note on "Joe the plumber." Joe owes back taxes, and according to some sources he doesn't even have a plumber licence. John McCain is so out of sorts in this campaign that he spent the better part of the last debate focusing on someone that's not even a model citizen.


Lol he has a lien on his home for a little over $1000 in back taxes . He does not need his license until if and when he owns his business. He did not say he was going to buy the business tomorrow. He said one day he would like to.

Just wish the MSM vetted Obama so thoroughly

lol he has a lein on his home for a little over $1000 in back taxes . He does not need his license until if and when he owns his business. He did not say he was going to buy the business tomorrow. He said one day he would like to.

Just wish the MSM vetted Obama so thoroughly



You blame the MSM for McCain ignorantly shooting his mouth off? Tom your point to defend a character "Joe the plumber," (on behalf of McCain) when he owes $1,182 in personal incomes taxes is a bit asinine. I said he owes taxes and you don't deny that fact. What makes it worse is the guy is a shade tree plumber that wants to own a business. Whoop-tee-do! Personally I'd rather have a professional plumber, or I'll just do it myself. In fact, according to how John McCain stressed "Joe the plumber" as example in the debate, I'm a plumber desiring entrepreneurship using those same standards. I've got to go. Peace out!

Hello wrongwingers:

Now, I'm not a fellow who likes to pay taxes...... But, YOUR REPUBLICAN president, the esteemed dufus in chief, just GAVE away $700 BILLION or so, of YOUR tax dollars.

Don't you think you have to pay it back???? No, you don't, do you?

excon

I think you got it wrong, it was your demo congress that did the giving away, including what looks like is going to be our next President ( Obama ). And they were just trying to stop the bleeding from a wound inflicted by your last President ( Clinton ).

And as far as paying it back I will not have to pay it back, it will be paid back by my and your grandchildren, if it is ever paid back at all.

Or it could be paid by China, then that would increase our debt to them enough so they could just do a takeover of this country for the money we owe them.

Hello again, tom:

Well, as long as we're divvying up the spoils, instead of paying back what we borrowed, I think the rich have enough, thank you very much.

And, nooooo. I don't think we should "spread it around", unless you think fixing that bridge you drive on every day is "spreading it around". But, of course, you guy's aren't speaking English right now. You're speaking political speak, where "spreading it around" is code for don't vote for the black guy.

excon

Why can't you just let the race issue die a natural death. Each time it seem as though it could be losing ground someone like you gives it another breath of fresh air.

You blame the MSM for McCain ignorantly shooting his mouth off? Tom your point to defend a character "Joe the plumber," (on behalf of McCain) when he owes $1,182 in personal incomes taxes is a bit asinine. I said he owes taxes and you don't deny that fact. What makes it worse is the guy is a shade tree plumber that wants to own a business. Whoop-tee-do! Personally I'd rather have a professional plumber, or I'll just do it myself. In fact, according to how John McCain stressed "Joe the plumber" as example in the debate, I'm a plumber desiring entrepreneurship using those same standards. I've got to go. Peace out!

So Joe has taxes to pay for .

He is not the only one ;)

Rangel says he won't quit House panel over tax dispute - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/10/rangel.congress/index.html)





Rep. Charles Rangel, a New York Democrat, said Wednesday he will not step down as chairman of the powerful House Ways and Means Committee in the face of a call from the Republican leader in the House for him to do so.

Rangel has been under fire for failing to report income from a rental property he owns in the Dominican Republic.

He admitted Tuesday he had not paid tax on the income,.

Hello again, tom:

Even libertarians understand that government has to be paid for. But, as long as we don't have a FLAT tax, the burden to pay is shifted around for political expediency.

So, as long as politicians can manipulate taxes, so as to reward the richest of the rich, at the expense of the poorest of the poor, I'm all for picking that rich guys pocket - YES SIR.

But, in truth, we'd be just retrieving what was plundered, and I'm ALL for that. So, I'm not talking about TAXES. I'm talking about RESTITUTION.

excon

Have you any idea how "progressive" the tax rates are?


2007 Federal Tax Rate Schedules (http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0,,id=164272,00.html)

The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data (http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/23408.html)

Open the attachment and under:

"Total Income Tax Shares, 1980-2006 (Percent of federal income tax paid by each group)"

For 2006 the bottom 50% paid 3 % of the country's income taxes, the top 50% paid 97%.

The top 25% paid 84% of the country's income taxes.

The economy must be fine. We keep printing money like, well, like I dodn't know what. No one in history has ever done it like this before except Germany. They ended up turning into a military state that tried to take over the world. Seems it had something to do with wheel barrows full of money not being enough to buy a loaf of bread or something. Sounds silly to me! That will never happen to us. We have gotten so good at printing money that when we print a few trillion more, the value of the dollar actually goes up. Now that is a trick worth knowing! But hey, as long as the rest of the world thinks the dollar is worth something, we should keep printing them. And when the dollar finally crashes, we can either create a whole new currency or just go cashless. Numbers in a computer are just as valuable. Easier to control too. No more of this "under the table" hanky panky. Then we will all pay our fair share of taxes because that is the patriotic thing to do.

So Joe has taxes to pay for .

He is not the only one.




These rebuttals are becoming even more asinine. McCain, in front of a live national audience would had better suited to have chosen myself, as an example. I don't owe back taxes and neither does most Americans. I certainly hope you don't either. ;)

What’s asinine is how Obama supporters have so suddenly changed their minds. When Gwen Ifill had an apparent conflict of interest in moderating the debate you guys told us it was the answers, not the questioner that mattered. Obama comes to a guy’s neighborhood so he asks him a question, Obama answered honestly for a change and now the questioner must be destroyed. What a bunch of hypocrites.

It doesn’t matter if Joe the Plumber owes a thousand bucks in back taxes, maybe he had a good reason, unexpected medical bills, car broke down, had to replace his heater and had to choose between heat and paying his taxes. Who knows? So what if he doesn’t have a plumbing license, for having an American dream of succeeding in business on his own instead of adhering to Obama’s collectivist dream of “economic justice” he’s being crucified. You people ought to be ashamed.

These rebuttals are becoming even more asinine. McCain, in front of a live national audience would had better suited to have chosen myself, as an example. I don't owe back taxes and neither does most Americans. I certainly hope you don't either. ;)

Are you moralizing for Rangle - an elected official - chairman of the house ways and means?

If anyone should no about tax revenue and the law it should be him:rolleyes:

Inthebox, you boxed yourself in... again. John McCain used "Joe the Plumber" on issue, not Rangel. ;) :p

Steve, Gwen Ifil did a excellent job as moderator by most news commentators and campaigners accounts, both Republican and Democrat. Fifth graders can come up with better excuses than you. John McCain didn't win one debate out of three opportunities. Not one! When the maverick in that last debate chose to spend a fair portion of allotted time on "Joe the Plumber" (which turned out to be poor example) rather than just answer the questions, it's his own mistake. The "you people" didn't tell Joe not to pay his taxes, nor did we advise McCain to use him as an example on live national television. Next time you're in front of judge try screaming "I've been crucified," and see how that works out for you. :D :cool:

Joe the Plumber did America a valuable service. He exposed Obama's destroy capital agenda.


Higher taxes on successful entrepreneurs (anyone earning over $250,000), higher taxes on capital gains, higher taxes on dividends, a possible raid on Americans' 401(k)s, a takeover of America's private health care industry, strict new limits on what CEOs can make, and the reimposition of the death tax.
Add it up, and Obama will usher in a new era in America — one where capital, the engine of our economic growth and success, is punished severely through the tax code. If Democrats win a filibuster-proof majority in Congress, it'll be the only form of capital punishment their party will support.

IBDeditorials.com: Editorials, Political Cartoons, and Polls from Investor's Business Daily -- Capital Punishment (http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=309739070026963)#

Steve, Gwen Ifil did a excellent job as moderator by most news commentators and campaigners accounts, both Republican and Democrat.

I said she did a fine job more than once, but again you miss, or rather ignore, the point.


Fifth graders can come up with better excuses than you.

And again you're back to insults to make your case.


John McCain didn't win one debate out of three opportunities. Not one! When the maverick in that last debate chose to spend a fair portion of allotted time on "Joe the Plumber" (which turned out to be poor example) rather than just answer the questions, it's his own mistake.

His own mistake? LOL, I guess you missed this post (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/voters-against-obama-wealth-redistribution-plan-273230.html).


The "you people" didn't tell Joe not to pay his taxes, nor did we advise McCain to use him as an example on live national television. Next time you're in front of judge try screaming "I've been crucified," and see how that works out for you.

I'm sure if you really focus you can understand the simple point I made. Joe the Plumber didn't do anything to deserve the bashing he received.

I'm sure if you really focus you can understand the simple point I made. Joe the Plumber didn't do anything to deserve the bashing he received.


Joe "the shade tree unlicensed plumber," didn't tell McCain to make him the focus. Granted on the surface Joe's no more bent than most Americans. However his profile didn't bring anything relative to the public attention or help McCain in the debate one iota. BTW as a registered Independent I was more than satisfied when I early voted for Barack Obama last Wednesday. McCain himself, and his campaign, has been a mistake making machine for months on in. Quite frankly I could go over a list of things the Republicans could had done to improve their stock from early on, but since Dubya's all but screwed our country I'd rather let them stew. The "George W. Bush" and "John S. McCain" Republicans are so polar opposite from the integrity of the Ronald Reagan Republicans that I have absolutely no interest or desire in helping the Grand Old Party (whoop-tee-do and fizzle). :cool: