This is a follow-up derived from another thread. I've maintained, as a gay man, that bisexuality in men is a myth which can be explained as either a confusion over definitions of sexual orientation or a denial of being gay, or both. I have no opinion about bisexuality in women (that might be possible, I have no idea). Of course, others disagree.

Sexual behavior does not equate with sexual orientation; in other words, behavior does not define orientation. That's a common misunderstanding. Yes, there is a fairly loose connection between behaviour and orientation- the one may point to the other in a certain way but it is only an indirect connection. Sexual orientation is about arousal, not what a person does. I was married for years but was gay all along and am still gay to this day and will be the rest of my life. Something like 25% of gay men were married at one time (to women) and about 40% claim to have been bisexual at some point in their lives but later dropped the nonsensical "bi" label and simply decided they were gay. Whatever anyone may say about bisexuality one thing is certain: it is virtually non-existant beyond a certain age. In fact, past probably 40 no male even bothers claiming to be bi, they just give up the fight and admit they are gay.

My opinion is that folks are predominately homesexual or heterosexual, that they get their most powerful sexual experiences from one or the other orientation.

I think bisexual is a term for people who decide to have sex with both males and females for reasons other than powerful sexual desire... maybe just for fun or for social reasons or to lie to themselves or whatever.

I believe people can be fully oriented in one direction or the other... but also to a varying amounts somewhere in between for some people. I base this not upon any particular study but from what people in this situation have told me.

No its not professional or scientific, but I've found no cases where two absolutes (an example black or white) are the only choices. There is always an infinate number of grey between them in every case in nature.

I believe people can be fully oriented in one direction or the other...but also to a varying amounts somewhere in between for some people. I base this not upon any particular study but from what people in this situation have told me.

No its not professional or scientific, but I've found no cases where two absolutes (an example black or white) are the only choices. There is always an infinate number of grey between them in every case in nature.

The process of developing a sense of one's sexual identity can take a long time in some men. In others it's a fairly rapid matter resulting in some guys coming out in their teens. Others, for varying reasons take much longer and, as part of that process, some men- and maybe only a minority- assume they are bisexual and tell others that. It can be a transitional phase brought on by confusion or simply a refusal to accept that they are gay. Eventually most such men throw off the bisexual label and just accept that they are gay. As many of us say in the gay community, "bi today, gay tomorrow."

Well, one of my friends is the best example I can give. He for quite some time has known that he was different... bisexual that is. He LOVES women, boobs and such turn him on so bad. But also, he loves penis. I mean, LOVES penis. He watches gay porn and straight porn. He has been in relationships with men and women. He is not ashamed of his sexuality. He will tell anyone how he is. He has no problem with it. Right now, he is with a girl... but continues to, as some would say, use his dildo.

I think you can very much have that "grey area"... or at least I know my friend does.

I think Bisexuality is based on confusion for the most part. They don't know if they are gay or straight.

well, one of my friends is the best example i can give. He for quite some time has known that he was different...bisexual that is. He LOVES women, boobs and such turn him on so bad. But also, he loves penis. I mean, LOVES penis. He watches gay porn and straight porn. He has been in relationships with men and women. He is not ashamed of his sexuality. He will tell anyone how he is. He has no problem with it. Right now, he is with a girl...but continues to, as some would say, use his dildo.

I think you can very much have that "grey area"...or at least I know my friend does.

I'd first wonder how old your friend is. The younger he is the more likely he is to be confused. Again, I've never met any guy that is truly bi and those that say they are usually come out later and admit they are gay.

I'd first wonder how old your friend is. The younger he is the more likely he is to be confused. Again, I've never met any guy that is truly bi and those that say they are usually come out later and admit they are gay.

Precisely. You have never met a bisexual man over the age of 40.

Guess what, I am!

I'm 41, happily married (to a wonderful woman) for the last 18 years, and I'm bisexual-definitely NOT GAY, or as you put it, confused.

PLEASE stop spreading YOUR unfounded and flawed theories here. Because you are a newbie, I have gracefully been as tactfull as I can be toward you, however I would appreciate it if you would NOT continue with this non-sensical debate. If however, you choose to persist, I will not respond further to any more of your posts on the subject.

I'm positive I know bucketloads MORE about this subject than you and I would very much like you to desist from forcing your opinions down the throats of others.

Thank you.

I think bisexuals are just really confused... I mean sure, they may like both sexes but they lean more toward one.. I think its just a phase.

I believe the statement is pure bull, reminds me of the inmates I used to deal with that made up big talk using a lot of big words to impress people.

The fact is that before and still today many men are ashamed to admit they are gay, so they get married and live in the closet, and for some reason being bi is considered more socially acceptable or because they are having sex with both that would be the label.

But of course there are men and women who just enjoy sex of any type, with men, or with women, both and even in groups. There are a lot of sexual tastes and to try and deny that these people exist is as bigoted statement as a person who says a gay person can not really be gay, and need to be cured.

Being bisexual myself (and a woman), I resent people telling me that I'm just "confused" about my sexuality. I mean, do YOU know what YOU are attracted to? Why shouldn't have have that same idea of what I am attracted to?

I think that people who are completely straight or completely gray just don't get how someone could be attracted to BOTH sexes. I love the cock... my husband is a great lover. But I love having another woman to play with too--and have had relationships with women in the past.

I fell in love with my husband, and chose to marry him, but that could as easily have fallen into me loving a woman and choosing to marry her. It honestly didn't matter to me which gender the person was--I was, and am, attracted to BOTH.

So---just because it confuses YOU that someone can be bisexual (by which I mean being able to be passionately and sexually attracted to BOTH sexes) doesn't mean that the people who ARE bisexual are confused.

I think, personally, it's the people that don't understand it that are "Just confused".

I really do not understand why the concept of loving more then one person is so hard. I am a bi-sexual woman and have no problems saying that. Is it a phase? Well let's see I'm 25 now and I realized I was bi at 16. Let's see ten years down the road will I still be bi? Yes. I personally think there is no confusion there. I don't feel confused. Being Bi or confused is 100% up to the individual. So basically if you haven't been in that situation to know what it feels like how can you say a bi person whether female or male is just outright confused?

precisely. You have never met a bisexual man over the age of 40.

guess what, I am!

I'm 41, happily married (to a wonderful woman) for the last 18 years, and I'm bisexual-definitely NOT GAY, or as you put it, confused.

PLEASE stop spreading YOUR unfounded and flawed theories here. Because you are a newbie, I have gracefully been as tactfull as I can be toward you, however I would appreciate it if you would NOT continue with this non-sensical debate. If however, you choose to persist, I will not respond further to any more of your posts on the subject.

I'm positive I know bucketloads MORE about this subject than you and I would very much like you to desist from forcing your opinions down the throats of others.

thank you.

I'd be the last person to try to tell you what you are or how you feel. That's for you to say and I respect that. Maybe you are the 1 in a million exception to what I've been saying. That's fine. But all I am saying is that bisexuality is not a stable sexual orientation as is heterosexuality and homosexuality and it can almost always be explained as confusion over definitions of sexual orientation or simple denial. A great number of gay men once identified themselves as "bisexual" only to come out later and drop that label and just accept that they are gay.

I was married for a while myself but I was always gay. I know that now but I never wanted to admit it. I have to also admit that I never claimed to be bisexual since I never found the female body arousing in the least. That I also knew.

I've met several formally married gay men and most of them claimed to be bisexual at one point or another; yet, once they came out of the closet, sex with women was forever a thing of the past.

Being bisexual myself (and a woman), I resent people telling me that I'm just "confused" about my sexuality. I mean, do YOU know what YOU are attracted to? Why shouldn't have have that same idea of what I am attracted to?

I think that people who are completely straight or completely gray just don't get how someone could be attracted to BOTH sexes. I love the cock...my husband is a great lover. But I love having another woman to play with too--and have had relationships with women in the past.

I fell in love with my husband, and chose to marry him, but that could as easily have fallen into me loving a woman and choosing to marry her. It honestly didn't matter to me which gender the person was--I was, and am, attracted to BOTH.

So---just because it confuses YOU that someone can be bisexual (by which I mean being able to be passionately and sexually attracted to BOTH sexes) doesn't mean that the people who ARE bisexual are confused.

I think, personally, it's the people that dont' understand it that are "Just confused".

When I started this thread I was careful to point out that I was referring to claimed bisexuality in men only, not women. I have no opinion about whether bisexuality can exist in women. Maybe it can, I have no idea not being a woman myself.

It seems that you are quite comfortable with the fact that it MAY (as you put it, exist in women),

You also AS A MAN were married and living a lie/being bisexual/and as you put it , were "CONFUSED" because you were married yourself?? What are you on about?

You are contradicting yourself about the existence of bisexual behaviour in men-yet you yourself were acting in a bisexual fashion-so YOU WERE CONFUSED ABOUT YOUR SEXUALITY.

I and many others HERE are not.

Please note this will be my final post to you.

Cheers.

It seems that you are quite comfortable with the fact that it MAY (as you put it, exist in women),

You also AS A MAN were married and living a lie/being bisexual/and as you put it , were "CONFUSED" because you were married yourself???? what are you on about??

You are contradicting yourself about the existence of bisexual behaviour in men-yet you yourself were acting in a bisexual fashion-so YOU WERE CONFUSED ABOUT YOUR SEXUALITY.

I and many others HERE are not.

please note this will be my final post to you.

cheers.

Having sex with my wife didn't make me straight or bisexual. I was gay the whole time pretending to be someone I was not. I repressed who I really was due to societal pressures and expectations and because I wanted to be straight. That's all there was to that. After a while I decided how crazy it was to live a lie and I left my wife and came out as a gay man. It's a very common story and there are plenty of gay men out there who went through the same experience.

What I have never found is a man who truly believed himself once to be straight and then decided he was gay (gay men know they are gay from the beginning usually fairly early in life); and, I've never met one who claimed to once be gay and then decided he was straight. But there are several out there who once truly thought they were bisexual and then decided they were gay later on (those are a dime a dozen). This is one of the reasons I think bisexuality can be seen as a temporary transitional phase of sexual identity: a guy is gay from the beginning, suppresses that identity, has heterosexual experiences, others see him as straight as he himself, he knows he has same-sex attractions but tries to hind them and decides he's bisexual as a result only later to realize he was gay all along.

So at no point did you ever enjoy or ever have any sexual desire for your wife ?

The idea of having sex with her was repulsive?

so at no point did you ever enjoy or ever have any sexual desire for your wife ?

The idea of having sex with her was repulsive ??

Well, I can't say that I never enjoyed sex with her, only because sex is obviously pleasurable. But then while having sex with her I always thought about guys the whole time so it was kind of weird in that respect. I don't know if I would use the word "repulsive"in reflecting on sex with my wife-- I would certainly say that having sex with her now (or with any woman) would be repulsive to me (oral sex with any woman would be especially repulsive). After a while I got to where I never wanted to have sex with her at all and always made excuses and that led to an end to the marriage. It all was an unfortunate mistake. I'm sorry having put her through it really.

After leaving her and having my first real boyfriend (I mean other than quick encounters behind gay bars) I truly experienced love and it was really unbelieveable - amazing in fact, and I had never felt like that with a woman ever.

This thread is just offending me. The fact that people have such closed-minded things to say pisses me off. I know more than one bi-sexual male... truly bisexual. These men are men that you say don't exist. Well, they do. Regardless of what you may think, they do. I suggest you live with it because reality is nothing but that, reality. It's all around you.

this thread is just offending me. The fact that people have such closed-minded things to say pisses me off. I know more than one bi-sexual male...truly bisexual. These men are men that you say don't exist. Well, they do. Regardless of what you may think, they do. I suggest you live with it because reality is nothing but that, reality. It's all around you.

It's not being closed minded at all. All I am saying I suppose it that a vast number of these so-called bisexual men out there are really just gay men who for any number of reasons have sex with women (maybe they are trying to prove they are not gay for example) - that we know to be true- and how do you differentiate those from the supposedly "real" bisexual ones who you insist exist? All I am saying is that I don't think there are truly any bisexual males anywhere. Men who have sex in prison, for example, are just typically straight guys who go back to women once released. They're not bisexual but often confused as such.

It's not being closed minded at all. All I am saying I suppose it that a vast number of these so-called bisexual men out there are really just gay men who for any number of reasons have sex with women (maybe they are trying to prove they are not gay for example) - that we know to be true- and how do you differentiate those from the supposedly "real" bisexual ones who you insist exist? All I am saying is that I don't think there are truly any bisexual males anywhere. Men who have sex in prison, for example, are just typically straight guys who go back to women once released. They're not bisexual but often confused as such.

Seems to me that you are speaking totally from your own personal experiences which is fine because everyone has a right to their own opinion. But don't make it seem like you know what every single, gay, bi, straight, gay pretending to be bi or bi pretending to be gay, is feeling. Just because you had to go through the situation of marriage and then coming to the shocking realization that you were gay doesn't mean that there are no truly bi-sexual men out there. And the whole thing on men having sex in jail well that's a totally different scenario because you have to take into consideration the surroundings. You can't really use that as an example because the majority of guys in jail who have sex with other men are usually forced.

Seems to me that you are speaking totally from your own personal experiences which is fine because everyone has a right to their own opinion. But don't make it seem like you know what every single, gay, bi, straight, gay pretending to be bi or bi pretending to be gay, is feeling. Just because you had to go through the situation of marriage and then coming to the shocking realization that you were gay doesn't mean that there are no truly bi-sexual men out there. And the whole thing on men having sex in jail well that's a totally different scenario because you have to take into consideration the surroundings. You can't really use that as an example because the majority of guys in jail who have sex with other men are usually forced.

Of the other gay men I know, none report ever having met a guy who was truly bisexual. A high percentage of gay men say they once claimed to be bi themselves and told other people this only later to really come out of the closet (bi is sort of like having the closet door half open). Quite a few were married and probably the majority (an easy majority) have had sex with women in the past. I've asked some if they would ever have sex with a woman again and they all say, never. Just like I say I would never have sex with a woman again. So it's not just me. It's most gay men I've met who have had similar experiences and if you ask them if they think bisexuality exists they all say no. Bi today gay tomorrow.

I'm not offended by this post but I do think its close minded. Sexuality is what it is. You can't always put it in a box. Our conservative society makes us label everything, and when it comes to sexuality you're either gay, straight or bi. That's where the confusion lies, because you're trying to divide it. Just because I consider my orientation straight now is not to say that down the road sometime I may be attracted to a woman, even though I'm only attracted to men now. So then what would that make me?

So if a bi man has sex with a man on Monday, and with a woman on Tuesday, what does it make him? Gay on Monday and straigh on Tuesday? No, it makes him bi. That's the concept behind, that at some point you're with a man and then at another point you fall in love with a woman... It doesn't mean you've turned totally gay or totally straight it just means that at this point of your life you've fallen in love with this certain person. At least that's what I understand by being bi.

Like you said, cadillac59, you were always gay, never bisexual, you were married but from what you said you weren't really attracted to your wife were you? So okay, you were gay and confused, but apparently other men ARE attracted to their women, as well as they are attracted to other men. That's the difference. Yours is confusion, theirs is a true feeling.

This thread is very interesting to me in that a questioner states his own opinion in a logical, unemotional manner and asks for other opinions, and some people go off the wall.

I wonder why?

Anyway, I noticed that people may mention body parts that is why they are bisexual. People like the penis, the breasts, the vulva, the clitoris... and so on.

I think true homosexality and heterosexuality involves the entire individual and a person's feelings about that person/sex with that person. To me that is a person's identity... the powerful overwhelming experience whether homosexual or heterosexual. Playing with body parts for sexual release is broadening sexual experience and falls under the category of "fun".

Do you agree with me, anyone?

I ALSO said "passionate".

I don't believe that sex can be passionate without involving one's emotions.

I have been EMOTIONALLY involved with both women and men. I am aroused SEXUALLY by both women and men.

Frankly, I think it's the combination of BOTH that makes a person biseuxal.

Thanks for your comment, Syn.

I was thinking more of X-ray guy who *won't speak* to the questioner any more, and others who were very annoyed.

This doesn't seen like a touchy subject to me.

I've noticed a lot of anti bisexual feelings in the gay community where I live. It starts as the odd 'dirty bi' comment but there does seem to be a deeper mistrust with some people. It never fails to amaze me how some people who have been subjected to prejudice themselves turn around and do the same thing to others.

The same with heterophobia in gay clubs- I wouldn't hassle a gay person in another club, why should I be hassled? Ridiculous. Not that it bothers me I just think it is childish behaviour from people who should know better.

As for my own opinion on gay, straight or bi, I think sexuality is a fluid thing, a spectrum, just like most other natural characteristics. You are going to get you polar gays and straights and a bit of everything in between.

Super specific and informative, tem...

It's a touchy subject for one reason: People who ARE bisexual are being told that their feelings/sexuality are not valid.

It's sort of like being told you're not REALLY a woman if you can't have kids, or that all REAL men can sustain an erection and please their woman in bed, or whatever.

Saying that bisexuality doesn't exist to bisexuals is negating their experiences, and relegating their opinions to second-rate.

Thanks for your comment, Syn.

I was thinking more of X-ray guy who *won't speak* to the questioner any more, and others who were very annoyed.

This doesn't seen like a touchy subject to me.


Okay, you are really not helping Choux, you were a person I considered to have some ethics and maturity and sense about yourself, after that comment, however, I'm doubting your clarity on this subject.

YOU consider it to not be a touchy subject-you are not one of the people mentioned by the op as non-existant!

I am having real difficulties finding "experts" here who are really trying to "help".


I think true homosexality and heterosexuality involves the entire individual and a person's feelings about that person/sex with that person. To me that is a person's identity... the powerful overwhelming experience whether homosexual or heterosexual. Playing with body parts for sexual release is broadening sexual experience and falls under the category of "fun".
perhaps your concept of fun is what I call bisexuality? In this case maybe you are right.

I consider sexuality to be physical and psychological, or more prescisely as sexuality as being the more physical act and likes, while gender is the psychological "who you associate with mentally"

for instance, the real term for sexual identity for bi-sexual is actually bi-gendered. But half of the people here wouldn't understand the term. Put it this way, as you stated, the comments state more to a liking for the sexual apparatus of the same sex, I classify myself as not really liking to have physical sex with a man.

the term bi-sexual actually means two sexes in one, a hermaphrodite, we call that nowadays a "pre-operation transexual" so the terms used often are incorrect anyway.

my reason for not wanting to talk to the op goes back further than this discussion and there are many other incidences that you are not party too, call it silly, immature, whatever, YOU have not had my experience and YOU do not understand EXACTLY what has transpired.

The OP asked for replies, he was given them from the people he considers "non-existent" and he still continued to deride and push his opinions as well as attempt to convince others here that WE ARE CONFUSED ABOUT OUR SEXUALITY- HE was and is still confused about the diversity of sexuality that is present here. HE was living a lie, HE was confused and in denial about his homosexuality, and somehow we have to endure his continual barrage of bull$hit,

When will this "discussion" end?

I've noticed a lot of anti bisexual feelings in the gay community where I live. It starts out as the odd 'dirty bi' comment but there does seem to be a deeper mistrust with some people. It never fails to amaze me how some people who have been subjected to prejudice themselves turn around and do the exact same thing to others.

The same with heterophobia in gay clubs- I wouldn't hassle a gay person in another club, why should I be hassled? Ridiculous. Not that it bothers me I just think it is childish behaviour from people who should know better.

As for my own opinion on gay, straight or bi, I think sexuality is a fluid thing, a spectrum, just like most other natural characteristics. You are going to get you polar gays and straights and a bit of everything in between.

I don't think sexuality is fluid at all, only that it can appear to be such if all you look at is behaviour.

I wouldn't say I have "anti-bisexual" feelings only that I think bisexuality in men (again not talking about women) just doesn't exist. Most "bisexual" men are really gay; some are straight. That's all. And I think the confusion lies in part in understanding that sexuality is about more than just having sex, it's about the totality of what makes you who you are. I'm gay and have sex with men but there's more too my identity it than just that. I would not for example say that I am in all respects just like a straight man except that I have sex with other men. No. Gay men are really a hybriad between straight men and straight women. We are males (and glad to be) just like straight guys but have brains that resemble more closely those of straight women (I mean physically on MRI scanning and autopsy). Yet we are not women trapped in a mens' bodies either and certainly would never want to have female parts (those folks are transexuals).

I liked your comments about heterophobia in gay clubs. I have to admit I'd prefer straight people not hang out in gay clubs because it seems half the time they are just there to gawk and they seem to desire mostly to show everyone how open-minded they are by hanging out "with the gay people." There are so many straight bars and clubs around can't they just leave us alone? That's my feeling about it. I like hanging around other gay males and gay people in general and would rather not have some straight guy with his girlfriend side-by-side in a bar. We get enough of the hetero world all day long (we have to live in it) and can't we just some some space that is all ours? (I like the gay bars that run gay porn- usually light porn-on the video monitors-- they tend to keep the straight folks away like bug repellant, but that's another subject).

This thread is very interesting to me in that a questioner states his own opinion in a logical, unemotional manner and asks for other opinions, and some people go off the wall.

I wonder why?

Anyway, I noticed that people may mention body parts that is why they are bisexual. People like the penis, the breasts, the vulva, the clitoris.....and so on.

I think true homosexality and heterosexuality involves the entire individual and a person's feelings about that person/sex with that person. To me that is a person's identity....the powerful overwhelming experience whether homosexual or heterosexual. Playing with body parts for sexual release is broadening sexual experience and falls under the catagory of "fun".

Do you agree with me, anyone?


I am also surprised by the vituperation this subject has caused. I would never attack anyone and tell them how they feel or that their feelings are "invalid". No. I respect everyone's right to say who they are and what they are. That's not the point. I am merely talking in a general way about male sexuality and saying that it seems bisexual men are probably just gay men still partly in the closet (after all at least 40% of them end of later in life changing their minds and just coming out as gay) or straight guys who have tried sex with many different sorts of people of both genders and simply think that alone necessitates being labeled "bi."

I think if your Bi your not Transsexual so there is no confusion you just want both male and female in bed or vice versa at the same time or a three some relationship.

HA HA! That's great...

ya but not everyone has this luxury, btw i have a very good male friend that IS bi, i think bisexuality isnt necessarily a 50/50 male/female attraction. you may lean one way or another, and that may change throughout your life, i think its more about being able to engage in a sexual and romantic REAL relationship with either a man OR a woman..and being comfortable with it.

Luxury? What luxury, deciding what you find arousing? I knew very early that I was gay and not only that, other people knew it too for some reaon.

Men are either gay or straight. If your friend "leans" in favor of males, he's gay.

I would like to say that I am sorry to the poster for posting such a hasty response (the angry one). It is not like me and I did not give the proper respect to the post or poster.

It's just that your post, to me, holds no water. And I get annoyed when someone is basically telling me that men like my friend don't exist. They do exist sir, I assure you. But, everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion and I'm sorry if I wrote yours off.

I would like to say that I am sorry to the poster for posting such a hasty response (the angry one). It is not like me and I did not give the proper respect to the post or poster.

It's just that your post, to me, holds no water. And i get annoyed when someone is basically telling me that men like my friend don't exist. They do exist sir, I assure you. But, everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion and I'm sorry if I wrote yours off.

Thanks for writing back. I'm not attacking your friend or anyone in particular or saying they are stupid or crazy or anything like that. Perhaps all I am saying is that he may say he is bi now (only he can say how he feels) but someday-- maybe 10 or 20 years from now- he's highly likely to say he's gay and never was bi (if he favors men that is) or straight if he favors women. That's typically how it turns out.

Luxury? What luxury, deciding what you find arousing? I knew very early that I was gay and not only that, other people knew it too for some reaon.

Men are either gay or straight. If your friend "leans" in favor of males, he's gay.

Yes it is a luxury some people have to spend their time trying to figure out what they are and then having to go and tell the people they care about about it.

And my friend is bi, your sweeping theories on sexuality are ridiculous.

yes it is a luxury some people have to spend their time tryin to figure out what they are and then havin to go and tell the people they care about about it.

and my friend is bi, your sweeping theories on sexuality are rediculous.

It may be something women struggle with; it sounds like it's not uncommon with women perhaps. But that's just not the way men are. Sorry. We are completely different.
There might be a short transitional period in men deciding their sexual orientation but it usually doesn't last that long and is over fairly early in life. After that I think deniel or trying to change their sexuality from gay to straight explains allegations of bisexuality in men.

I'm going to agree to disagree with you on this one because I just really am not of the same belief as you. I have spoken not only with this close friend but also with other men who are bi and have found it difficult. Some gay men and women although it seems as thou they don't even belong in the same category in your mind, that have found it very difficult to get their own head around their sexuality.

im going to agree to disagree with you on this one cos i just really am not of the same belief as you. i have spoken not only with this close friend but also with other men who are bi and have found it difficult. some gay men and women although it seems as thou they dont even belong in the same catagory in your mind, that have found it very difficult to get their own head around their sexuality.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Maybe the easiest way to understand what I am saying, without trying to offend anyone, is that yes, you will find men out there who say they are bi and like both men and women. But, give them time, maybe 20 or even 30 years and come back and see them and if they were leaning in the direction of males earlier they are almost always going to be flat out gay later on. If they leaned in the direction of females, they will almost always wind up married saying the gay thing was just youthful experimentation. See what I mean?

You will stop hijacking other threads with this topic. Period.

Express your opinion if you want in another thread, but STOP ARGUING with other members in such a manner that it takes away from the original question asked by someone else.

This is NOT an area for personal debate... invite people back to this thread to discuss it with you, but STOP IT with the personal crusade in other peoples' threads.

You will stop hijacking other threads with this topic. Period.

Express your opinion if you want in another thread, but STOP ARGUING with other members in such a manner that it takes away from the original question asked by someone else.

This is NOT an area for personal debate....invite people back to this thread to discuss it with you, but STOP IT with the personal crusade in other peoples' threads.

With all due respect, I thought this was my thread and my topic.

THIS thread is your topic, and your question.

I moved the five posts previous to you asking whether this is your thread and your topic from a completely different thread.

Cadillac,
This may happenbut it doesn't obliterate the concept of bisexuality in either males or females. Some people, no matter who they end up with, ARE BISEXUAL. It is a person's choice and opinion of themselves, not yours! How can you not see this?

I have no bad feelings toward people who call themselves bi-sexual... from my point of view, that seems to be an *enlightened* sexuality for adults.

I haven't known but one or so bi, so my opinions were formed by reading on the subject which was folks lean primarily toward one sexuality... but they enjoy sex with both sexes.

I apologize if my initial answer was given too cavalierly... I didn't think any bi was emotional or would be emotional about this question or the subject of bisexuality.

Backing out...

PS Oh, I see, the question was "Does Bisexuality Exist"... now I fully understand.

Backing out...

cadillac,
this may happenbut it doesnt obliterate the concept of bisexuality in either males or females. some people, no matter who they end up with, ARE BISEXUAL. it is a person's choice and personal opinion of themselves, not yours! how can you not see this?

Obviously people can and do define themselves as they like. I know that. And we have to go by what they say about themselves. But people never choose their sexual orientation.

Now, female bisexuality may well exist and that's a completely different subject. I really have no opinion about that (I note with interest the number of threads by women asking if they should be considered bisexual and so on and how they have same-sex and opposite sex attractions at the same time but this is simply not what I am concerned with on this thread).

The reality is about half (40% or so) of all men who report being bisexual today will later proclaim they are and always were gay. Why? Probably because of confusion over definitions (not confusion over how they feel)-- in other words, if they've ever had sex with a woman, even if it were just once compared with 99 other times with men they might assume that makes them "bi" by definition, which it does not. Or, contrariwise, if they've always loved and had sex with women but just tried sex once or twice with a male friend- even to later decide they didn't like it- they might assume that meant they were bi. But it does not. Or, they might be trying very hard not to be gay, they might be suppressing same-sex attraction and forcing on themselves sex with women (maybe even a marriage) just to try to change or convince others they are not gay and because of this believe they are bi. None of these things make a man bisexual.

The reason I come out so strongly against the notion of bisexuality in men is not only because I don't think it exists, but also because I think the belief it exists is harmful. I've heard of couples who remained married for years believing the husband was bisexual and only needed to get out once and a while and be with a guy to satisfy his needs, only to find out a decade or so later that he was gay all along and that there was no possible hope for the marriage. I've heard of guys staying in marriages -even re-marrying- because of the belief they were bi only to hurt some woman in the process when they later decided they were not bi but just gay.

Obviously people can and do define themselves as they like. I know that. And we have to go by what they say about themselves. But people never choose their sexual orientation.

Now, female bisexuality may well exist and that's a completely different subject. I really have no opinion about that (I note with interest the number of threads by women asking if they should be considered bisexual and so on and how they have same-sex and opposite sex attractions at the same time but this is simply not what I am concerned with on this thread).

The reality is about half (40% or so) of all men who report being bisexual today will later proclaim they are and always were gay. Why? Probably because of confusion over definitions (not confusion over how they feel)-- in other words, if they've ever had sex with a woman, even if it were just once compared with 99 other times with men they might assume that makes them "bi" by definition, which it does not. Or, contrariwise, if they've always loved and had sex with women but just tried sex once or twice with a male friend- even to later decide they didn't like it- they might assume that meant they were bi. But it does not. Or, they might be trying very hard not to be gay, they might be suppressing same-sex attraction and forcing on themselves sex with women (maybe even a marriage) just to try to change or convince others they are not gay and because of this believe they are bi. None of these things make a man bisexual.

The reason I come out so strongly against the notion of bisexuality in men is not only because I don't think it exists, but also because I think the belief it exists is harmful. I've heard of couples who remained married for years believing the husband was bisexual and only needed to get out once and a while and be with a guy to satisfy his needs, only to find out a decade or so later that he was gay all along and that there was no possible hope for the marraige. I've heard of guys staying in marriages -even re-marrying- because of the belief they were bi only to hurt some woman in the process when they later decided they were not bi but just gay.

I understand that you have your own opinions but you DO NOT speak for all men, I'm sorry but there is no way I can agree with you. I believe I was telling you about a friend of mine who is male AND bi (irregardless of your opinion) is now a father and with the mother of the child but still believes he is bi.
Bisexuality in men is not necessarily harmful, it is for some but that is due to their own and their wives actions or reactions to the situation. This is not the nature of bisexuality necessarily and bisexuality as a concept cannot be blamed for these situations.

Everyone fascinates about who or how they would like sex this is normal for everyone it depends on how relaxed they feel in there environment. If I had the chance I would have sex five times a day I love it, its one of those little pleasures of life enjoy it don't worry about what other people feel. There probably jealous because they don't have as much opportunity and don't get it on as often as they like. This is like when you see someone else with a beautiful woman/man and you don't have one I guess.

Everyone fascinates about who or how they would like sex this is normal for everyone it depends on how relaxed they feel in there environment. If I had the chance I would have sex five times a day I love it, its one of those little pleasures of life enjoy it don’t worry about what other people feel. There probably jealous because they don’t have as much opportunity and don’t get it on as often as they like. This is like when you see someone else with a beautiful woman/man and you don’t have one I guess.

Huh?

huh?

Yeah, I didn't quite follow that either.

There was a scientific study a few years back on this very topic. If I remember the results correctly it said that in general men aren't bi-sexual. Even men who said they were bi-sexual in general weren't. They were either gay or straight. For women though it was a completely different story. Most women who claimed to be bi-sexual were bi-sexual and even a good percentage of the women that claimed to be gay or straight were actually bi-sexual. Interesting things you find reading through science journals all day long. If I can find the study again I'll post it later.

Just remember no reason to be mad at me about this as I say this article said in general which means if you feel differently this paper didn't say you in particular aren't what you say you are.

michealb, so your saying you can have had sex with a man and a woman but still be straight how come surely it's bi isn't it.

What the study was focusing on was whether you were attracted to men and women not just if you have sex with them.
So even if you have sex with men and women if you not turned on by both your not bisexual at least according to the definition used by the study. Your definition may be different and that's fine too.

I don't think the guys having sex with other men are closing their eyes and pretending it's a woman.

They obviously have some attraction to them even if its not porportionally equal to the other genders atraction.

Like I said before. THere are few is any true opposing absolutes in nature without having quite a few instances that fall between those two points.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Maybe the easiest way to understand what I am saying, without trying to offend anyone, is that yes, you will find men out there who say they are bi and like both men and women. But, give them time, maybe 20 or even 30 years and come back and see them and if they were leaning in the direction of males earlier they are almost always going to be flat out gay later on. If they leaned in the direction of females, they will almost always wind up married saying the gay thing was just youthful experimentation. See what I mean?


Why do you live in a world that is black and white when real life isn't like that. Someone might come out today and lead a "gay" life when 10 years earlier they were living a "bi" life, but that doesn't mean that they were never bi and were always gay. It just means that they were bi then and gay now. I find it bizarre that with all the prejudice about homosexuality, you haven't learned to be more open minded. Even if you were right in saying most bi men would say they were actually gay, what about the small percent who wouldn't agree with that statement. Even if its rare, is that still grounds to say it doesn't exist?

why do you live in a world that is black and white when real life isnt like that. someone might come out today and lead a "gay" life when 10 years earlier they were living a "bi" life, but that doesnt mean that they were never bi and were always gay. it just means that they were bi then and gay now. i find it bizarre that with all the prejudice about homosexuality, you havent learned to be more open minded. even if you were right in saying most bi men would say they were actually gay, what about the small percent who wouldnt agree with that statement. even if its rare, is that still grounds to say it doesnt exist?

Exactly, the fact that you feel the bad side of prejudice against gay people yet insist on perpetuating and building the prejudice against bisexual.. it reminds me of the people who say gay people can be cured... do you find that statement ridiculous?

exactly, the fact that you feel the bad side of prejudice against gay people yet insist on perpetuating and building the prejudice against bisexual..it reminds me of the people who say gay people can be cured...do you find that statement rediculous??

A Gay man can rape a straight guy is this the same for woman and how?

There was a scientific study a few years back on this very topic. If I remember the results correctly it said that in general men aren't bi-sexual. Even men who said they were bi-sexual in general weren't. They were either gay or straight. For women though it was a completely different story. Most women who claimed to be bi-sexual were bi-sexual and even a good percentage of the women that claimed to be gay or straight were actually bi-sexual. Interesting things you find reading through science journals all day long. If I can find the study again I'll post it later.

Just remember no reason to be mad at me about this as I say this article said in general which means if you feel differently this paper didn't say you in particular aren't what you say you are.

I've mentioned this before. Yes there was a study done I believe through the University of Chicago done in association with researchers from a University in Toronto. The results were reported in the New York Times a few years ago and the study concluded that bisexuality in men likely did not exist (or at least the study cast VERY serious doubt on whether it existed) because it found a majority of bisexual men to respond to sexual stimuli (by use of gay and straight porn) exactly as gay men with a minority responding exactly as straight men. In other words, there was no unique bisexual response to the same stimuli suggesting that bisexuality in men (the study did not involve women) was not a stable sexual orientation as was heterosexuality and homosexuality. Hence, it could represent only a transitional state or be the result of confusion is definitions of sexual orientation.

It was an interesting study, highly criticized however and it admittedly only involved a small sample size but it still raised some fascinating questions.

I must say I am straighter than most men but still have a feminine Orientation on sex. Is this good for a man or am I being to open to everyone?

I must say I am straighter than most men but still have a feminine Orientation on sex. Is this good for a man or am I being to open to everyone?


No you are being truthful about how YOU feel, according to some people however, you don't exist, you are either hetro or gay.

The term that you fall under is bi-gendered. The attraction to the feminine aesthetic, while being somewhat hetrosexual.

Some misinformed people would call you a pre-op transexual, because they are close minded and see only black and white.

Don't worry I have no intention of changing my gender I have what I got and that's all I need. Actually its not I need lots of sex as well I one of these people you call can't get enough.

no you are being truthful about how YOU feel, according to some people however, you don't exist, you are either hetro or gay.

the term that you fall under is bi-gendered. The attraction to the feminine aesthetic, while being somewhat hetrosexual.

some misinformed people would call you a pre-op transexual, because they are close minded and see only black and white.

What is "attraction to the feminine aesthetic while being somewhat heterosexual"? You mean a straight guy who dresses in women's clothing and tries to appear female? Is that it?

At any rate, some things in life are black and white and when it comes to male sexual orientation I think it really is a bit simpler than many people would like to think it is.

What is "attraction to the feminine aesthetic while being somewhat heterosexual"? You mean a straight guy who dresses in women's clothing and tries to appear female? Is that it?

No that's called a transvestite or possibly a transexual trying to determine how it would feel within the gender identity of a woman.

I've mentioned this before. Yes there was a study done I believe through the University of Chicago done in association with researchers from a University in Toronto. The results were reported in the New York Times a few years ago and the study concluded that bisexuality in men likely did not exist (or at least the study cast VERY serious doubt on whether it existed) because it found a majority of bisexual men to respond to sexual stimuli (by use of gay and straight porn) exactly as gay men with a minority responding exactly as straight men. In other words, there was no unique bisexual response to the same stimuli suggesting that bisexuality in men (the study did not involve women) was not a stable sexual orientation as was heterosexuality and homosexuality. Hence, it could represent only a transitional state or be the result of confusion is definitions of sexual orientation.

It was an interesting study, highly criticized however and it admittedly only involved a small sample size but it still raised some fascinating questions.

I can see why that would be so highly criticized. First of all, they admitted that the sample size was small, yet they concluded that "The majority of all bi men respond the same way as gay men" so if the majority of what, 10 people, responded then that's a study that you can rely on for worldwide discrimination? Well anyway I'm sure it was more than 10... But in their "findings", there were at least some men who responded exactly as straight men. So basically the study found that some men still have bi-sexual feelings. But what is their conclusion? That bisexuality "could represent only a transitional state or be the result of confusion." on what grounds exactly? How has this study proved it likely that bi sexuality doesn't exist?

Nothing in life is black and white, nothing is divided between one or the other. Even life and death. It just is what it is, everything is connected

i can see why that would be so highly criticized. first of all, they admitted that the sample size was small, yet they concluded that "The majority of all bi men respond the same way as gay men" so if the majority of what, 10 people, responded then thats a study that you can rely on for worldwide discrimination? well anyway im sure it was more than 10... But in their "findings", there were atleast some men who responded exactly as straight men. so basically the study found that some men still have bi-sexual feelings. but what is their conclusion? that bisexuality "could represent only a transitional state or be the result of confusion." on what grounds exactly?? how has this study proved it likely that bi sexuality doesnt exist?

nothing in life is black and white, nothing is divided between one or the other. even life and death. it just is what it is, everything is connected

You are misunderstanding the study. You have to understand a basic premise under which the reseachers were operating (and I think a valid one): sexual arousal in men = sexual orientation. Thus, gay men should be aroused by visual depictions of gay sex but not sex involving women. The study consistently showed this to be true. Straight men should be aroused by visual depictions of heterosexual sex but not gay sex. The study consistently showed this to be true. Therefore, if bisexuality truly exists along side homosexuality and heterosexuality, bisexual men should be aroused by viewing both gay sex and heterosexual sex. Right? At the very least they should show different arousal patterns compared with strictly gay or straight men. It seems consistent, doesn't it? But what were the results? Not at all what you would expect if bisexuality truly exists: The majority of the so-called bisexual men responded exactly like gay men and the minority exactly like straight men. Hence, the majority of the "bisexual" men were likely just gay men using a different label for themselves for whatever reason and the minority of "bisexual" men were just straight men also using a different label for themselves.

There is no such thing as "bisexual feelings"- they are only gay and straight feelings.

As the OP is clearly blinkered and obviously has their own agenda on this issue, I am closing this thread.