Hello:

Did you see that left wing Colin Powell endorse Obama?? Didn't he pal around with terrorists too?

What's that you say? Colin Powell is a Republican? He served both Bush presidents? He was Secretary of State?? He's a GENERAL?? He FOUGHT terrorists?? Do you mean to tell me that Colin Powell is NOT a liberal left winger??

OMG, this is BIG!

In all seriousness, Powell is a revered being - at least to me he is.

excon

Go Google Powell +warmonger and see how many hits you get from Democrat cites. Here's an example of what they thought of him before he became their favorite Republican.
disinformation | colin powell: don't ask about my lai, don't tell about iran-contra (http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id803/pg1/)


While Powell was serving honorably in Vietnam and his friend John McCain was being beaten in a Hanoi cell . Obama ally William Ayes was bombing the Pentagon and attempting to kill soldiers at Fort Dix New Jersey.

Colin Powell is part of “Strategic Limited Partner” at Kleiner Perkins Caulfield and Byers, one of the best performing venture capital firms in history, having sponsored Google, and Apple, among others. Kleiner has made huge pushes into 'clean technology' over the past 3-4 years. They have even raised an all clean-tech fund. Al Gore is also a special partner. An Obama victory would put Kleiner in a strong commercial position.
http://www.kpcb.com/team/index.php?Colin%20Powell

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122445812003548473.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

KPCB has publicized its plan to put 50,000 electric cars on U.S. roads by late next year The venture will be called Think North America and be based in Menlo Park, California.
http://www.think.no/think/Press-Pictures/Press-releases/Kleiner-Perkins-and-RockPort-Capital-two-leading-US-Cleantech-investors-launch-joint-venture-with-Norwegian-electrical-vehicle-company-Think
Obama has promised to provide tax cuts for people purchasing new electric cars. This would encourage people to purchase these cars. Also Obama has promised to cut to zero capitol gains tax made by companies in this kind of business for two years. Obama has offered other tax cuts for new start up companies like this one.



I like the way the MSM says this is devastating to McCain but they brushed off an ex Democrat VP candidate in Leiberman backing McCain .

Here are some endorsements that did not make it onto the NBC Obama-lovefest :

Former Sec. States... Henry Kissinger, retired Gen. Alexander Haig, Lawrence Eagleburger and George Shultz all said they would support McCain.


McCain has been endorsed by over 100 generals and admirals from the U.S. Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps among them:

General H. Norman Schwarzkopf, USA (Ret.) - former Commander-in-Chief, Central Command
Admiral Leighton W. Smith, Jr. USN (Ret.) - former Commander-in-Chief, U.S. Naval Forces, Europe
Lieutenant General John B. Conaway, USAF (Ret.) - former Chief of the National Guard Bureau
General James B. Davis, USAF (Ret.) - former Chief of Staff, Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers, Europe (NATO)
Colonel George "Bud" Day, USAF (Ret.) - Medal of Honor recipient
Rear Admiral Jeremiah Denton, USN (Ret.) - Navy Cross recipient
Admiral S. Robert Foley, USN (Ret.) - former Commander-in-Chief, Pacific Fleet
Admiral Ronald J. Hays, USN (Ret.) - former Commander-in-Chief, Pacific Command
Admiral James L. Holloway III, USN (Ret.) - former Chief of Naval Operations
Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, USN (Ret.) - former Director of the NSA
Admiral Jerome L. Johnson, USN (Ret.) - former Vice Chief of Naval Operations
General P.X. Kelley, USMC (Ret.) - former Commandant of the Marine Corps
Admiral Robert J. "Barney" Kelly, USN (Ret.) - former Commander-in-Chief, Pacific Fleet
Admiral Frank Kelso, USN (Ret.) - former Chief of Naval Operations
Admiral George "Gus" Kinnear, USN (Ret.) - former Commander of Air Force, Atlantic Fleet
Admiral Charles R. "Chuck" Larson, USN (Ret.) - former Commander-in-Chief, Pacific Command
Admiral Joseph Lopez, USN (Ret.) - former Commander-in-Chief, U.S. Naval Forces, Europe
Captain Jim Lovell, USN (Ret.) - former NASA astronaut, commander of Apollo 13
Admiral James "Ace" Lyons, USN (Ret.) - former Commander-in-Chief, Pacific Fleet
Admiral Paul David Miller, USN (Ret.) - former Commander-in-Chief, Atlantic Fleet
Rear Admiral Benjamin F. Montoya, USN (Ret.) - former Chief of Naval Civil Engineer Corps
General Carl E. Mundy, Jr. USMC (Ret.) - former Commandant of the Marine Corps
Vice Admiral John R. Ryan, USN (Ret.) - former Superintendent of the Naval Academy
Colonel Leo K. Thorsness, USAF (Ret.) - Medal of Honor recipient
Lieutenant General James A. Williams, USA (Ret.) - former Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency
Admiral Ronald J. Zlatoper, USN (Ret.) - former Commander-in-Chief, Pacific Fleet

Here are some endorsements that did not make it onto the NBC Obama-lovefest Hello tom:

Come on, Dude. Get a grip. If ANY of those people had ANY of the gravitas the Powell has, they would have been on Meet the Press too...

excon

Everyone who is anyone who has endorsed Obama has gotten air time at NBC or it's looney cable sidekick station.

Ah yes, the left wing media conspiracy. LOL!

While Powell was serving honorably in Vietnam and his friend John McCain was being beaten in a Hanoi cell . Obama ally William Ayes was bombing the Pentagon and attempting to kill soldiers at Fort Dix New Jersey.



Obama ally? They worked on a committee together with other republicans, democrats and independent politicians. This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

You know... People just love bringing up that Vietnam war protester Ayers.. Hmmm... Looks like YOU can't vote for either candidate if you are so concerned with a person's friendships with people who are or have been criminals. Do you just want to discount the fact that McCain's good buddy is J. Gordon Liddy? (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/05/g-gordon-liddy-john-mccai_n_100134.html) the guy that helped plan the Watergate break-in that got Nixon impeached? What about all the family vacations he took with Charles Keating the same man who was convicted of racketeering and fraud in both state and federal court after his Lincoln Savings & Loan collapsed, costing the taxpayers $3.4 billion? How do you pick?

I'm not going to vote for McCain because he is no different than George Bush with his isolationist views and his anti-environmental stance and his LUDICROUS choice of VP Sarah Palin whose fakeness is only surpassed by McCain's own stepford-esque wife who looks like batteries may pop out of her back at any moment along with her hidden stash of valium. You have got to be absolutely crazy to vote for McCain even if only for his VP choice, which, not surprisingly, is also the way Powell feels. I didn't feel very much anxiety about the election or the possibility of McCain winning until I've gotten to know that divisive Alaskan moron from hell. Screw taxes... do you want a far right wing religious nut with her college diploma in journalism hanging next to the Miss Alaska beauty pageant trophy on her mantel guiding us through a war in Iran? Do you honestly?? The woman can't speak in a complete sentence unless it's from her memorized stumping material. Is there only one word to describe this scenario? You Betcha! That word is: HORRIFYING.

Obama on the other hand is inspiring. He is an absolute inspiration to me, our nation, and millions of at-risk students. His ideas of community work in exchange for college tuition for our young people is what I want to hear from a candidate. I think it's wise to help each other for the strength of the nation but from everything Obama has said he isn't for just throwing money at the problem. No one appreciates a free handout. Education is so important right now because our country needs higher skilled workers if we want to compete with China and India. You teach a man to fish, he can fish for life. Or I guess you can not teach him and not give him anything and just let him starve. That option sound good to you?

McCain is isolationist ? Lol

Let's see Liddy v. McCain

Liddy former FBI agent broke into DNC Hqs .was convicted served his time.

Ayers domestic admitted terrorist .Bombed the Pentagon and other places .Was part of the group of Weather Underground terrorist who were constructing a bomb with nails to plant at a Fort Dix party with the intent to kill the soldiers and their dates .

Liddy ,a friend of McCain who has had no impact on his political career.

Ayers ; political patron of Obama since the beginning of his Chicago days . Served on boards together like the Woods Foundation and was Obama's boss at Annenberg Project . Hosted Obama's political coming out party in his home.
Not quite the casual acquaintance Obama says in his lies.

Hosted Obama's political coming out party in his home.
Not quite the casual acquaintance Obama says in his lies.


This is a lie.

From USA today fact check after the third debate...

McCain on Obama's ties to '60s radical Bill Ayers: "You launched your political campaign in Mr. Ayers' living room." Ayers was one of many who sponsored coffees for Obama in 1995 when he declared for the Illinois Senate. The official campaign launch occurred at the Hyde Park Ramada. Their relationship barely goes beyond serving together on an education foundation board in Chicago.

Edited to add: You can laugh but the republicans are doing nothing for our relationship with countries abroad and many of our international ties have become quite cold. John McCain will only widen the gulf which threatens the security of our country.

Hello again, tom:

I don't know... Our former Republican Secretary of State, a five star general, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was TAKEN IN by terrorists??

Bwa, ha ha ha ha. That, my friend, is one of the silliest things you righty's have EVER said.

There's only ONE side who's been taken in here, and it AIN'T the side that's going to obliterate the other side.

excon

Powell's reasoning :

1. The economy . McCain unsure but does not mention that Obama has been pretty much absent from the solutions end of the debate. All he does is cry about deregulation. He took no opinion on the AIG bailout or the rescue plan .He sat on the sidelines ;phoned it in and voted with the majority . He says he will tax more and create free trade barriers .

From Powell's 1996 Republican convention speech:

We Republicans believe that the good jobs needed to sustain families come from a faster-growing economy where the free enterprise system is unleashed to create wealth -- wealth which produces more good jobs.
In this richest nation on earth, we still have not solved the problems of poverty, of hunger, of poor health care, of inadequate housing, all of which tear away at the roots of strong families. And for which government assistance is a poor substitute for good jobs. So that's why we are the pro-growth party.
We are the party committed to lessening the burden of taxes, cutting government regulations and reducing government spending, all for the purpose of generating the higher economic growth that will bring better jobs, wages and living standards to all our people. ......


I have been asked many times why I became a Republican. I became a Republican because like you, I believe our party best represents the principles of freedom, opportunity, and limited government upon which our nation was founded.

I became a Republican because I believe the policies of our party will lead to greater economic growth which is the only real solution to the problems of poverty that keep too many Americans from sharing in the wealth of this nation.

I became a Republican because I believe, like you that the federal government has become too large and too intrusive in our lives. We can no longer afford solutions to our problems that result in more entitlements, higher taxes to pay for them, more bureaucracy to run them and fewer results to show for it.


2. Palin He says the ususal stuff about inexperience while ignoring Obama's inexperience.It is impossible to comment on the experience of Sarah Palin without looking at the experience of Barak Obama. When one looks, it is also impossible not to see the total lack of executive experience in the resume of Barak Obama. In the selection of VP it matters but not for POTUS I guess.

3. Powell says he doesn't want any more conservatives on SCOTUS. Fine I can buy that a liberal would object to more conservatives on the court .What he is saying in effect is that he wants a liberal supermajority in SCOTUS.

The rest of his comments about the way McCain has conducted the campaign is disjointed . The McCain camp has not promoted the notion that Obama is Muslim as Powell claims . McCain in fact took the mike away from a women who claimed it as his rally.

Honestly if all the smears (true or not )of Obama can be pinned to the McCain campaign then Obama is guilty of the same. Charging one side over the other of getting in the mud is silly .Both have been willing participants .

His talk about Obama's "transformative campaign " is code speak itself. .

I don't know... Our former Republican Secretary of State, a five star general, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was TAKEN IN by terrorists??

I never said that .

Merris you are playing games with words . You talk about the "official launch " and I am talking about a well researched and verified event in Ayers home ;a " meet and greet "fund raiser that was attended by among others Ayers ;Obama ,and Alice Palmer who was introducing her heir apparent to her Senate seat. ( she later lost her contest against Jesse Jackson Jr for US Congress and decided to instead try to get her seat back . However Obama refused to step away for her .He instead challenged her petitions and got her thrown off the ballot).

Hello again, tom:

Hmmm. Just what ARE you saying when you accuse Obama of palling around with terrorists? Just what ARE you insuating when you ask the question "who is Barack Obama?". Just WHAT message are you trying to get across when you mention his middle name?

I don't know about you, but I get the message. It's actually clear as a bell.

But, it's interesting... The message is delivered in right wing code. The righty's get the message, but are oblivious to the code. The lefties, of course, get the code, AND the message. How do you guys miss it?

excon

When talk show host Bill Cunningham used Obama's middle name when introducing McCain ,McCain gave him a verbal smack down and apologized immediately to Obama. As I mentioned ;when a women talked about Obama being Muslim McCain took the mike from her.

So tell me ;how is McCain fostering that ?

Ayers is an unrepentant domestic terrorist (as his NY Slimes 2001 interview and his book more than confirms. ) . That makes his alliance with Obama a legitimate campaign issue . If McCain was allied with an abortion clinic bomber you know damn well it would be... and should be.

Too bad if Powell doesn't approve. I frankly question why he would vote for someone who allies themselves with someone who attempted to kill Powell's fellow soldiers .

Merris you are playing games with words . You talk about the "official launch " and I am talking about a well researched and verified event in Ayers home ;a " meet and greet "fund raiser that was attended by among others Ayers ;Obama ,and Alice Palmer who was introducing her heir apparent to her Senate seat. ( she later lost her contest against Jesse Jackson Jr for US Congress and decided to instead try to get her seat back . However Obama refused to step away for her .He instead challenged her petitions and got her thrown off of the ballot).

My point is that it doesn't matter how you are wording it. McCain is wording it this way in the debates, Palin is inciting rage and fear at the rallies and YOU, Tom, are perpetuating this stupidity and making something out of it that it isn't.

The Ayers/Obama association is still unveiling by the way. Ayers mentioned his neighbor, "writer Barack Obama" in his book A Kind and Just Parent while his "neighbor" reviewed Ayers' book. The more we hear the cozier they appear.

http://michellemalkin.cachefly.net/michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/ayers-book-cap-highlighted.png

http://michellemalkin.cachefly.net/michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/1abamayers.jpg

And I like how Ayers mentions their other neighbor Farrakhan's "Fruit of Islam" security force keeping things safe and tidy for them all.

Nothing wrong there. What are you trying to make of it?
Is this the final issue that will save the Republican campaign?

Nothing wrong there. What are you trying to make of it?
Is this the final issue that will save the Republican campaign?

After all these years of hearing "Bush lied" one would think you'd get it.

Ayers mentioned his neighbor, "writer Barack Obama" in his book
Let's also talk about Obama's neighbors, Muhammad Ali and Gwendolyn Brooks. How have they influenced Obama? Didn't Ali used to be Christian and became Muslim? Didn't Brooks write R-rated poetry? I'll bet they invited Obama to coffee at their homes too.

This is a lie.

From USA today fact check after the third debate...

From the wayback machine (http://web.archive.org/web/20060506153911/http://warrenpeacemuse.blogspot.com/2005/01/get-to-know-barack-obama-when-i-first.html) via Patterico's Pontifications (http://www.patterico.com/2008/10/20/evidence-of-obama-ayers-tie-sent-down-the-memory-hole-almost/) via Politico:


Get to know Barack Obama
When I first met Barack Obama, he was giving a standard, innocuous little talk in the livingroom of those two legends-in-their-own-minds, Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. They were launching him--introducing him to the Hyde Park community as the best thing since sliced bread.

From the wayback machine (http://web.archive.org/web/20060506153911/http://warrenpeacemuse.blogspot.com/2005/01/get-to-know-barack-obama-when-i-first.html) via Patterico's Pontifications (http://www.patterico.com/2008/10/20/evidence-of-obama-ayers-tie-sent-down-the-memory-hole-almost/) via Politico:
When I first saw him and heard him, I immediately thought of him as the best thing since sliced bread. And he hasn't disappointed.

This thread has gotten way off topic. ;) Just like McCain's campaign, not surprisingly. The more republicans harp about a perceived negative it shows that they are out of touch with the needs of the people and what really matters... finding solutions to the problems at hand. McCain doesn't have any solutions, thus he focuses on Ayers. What's funny is that I can bet none of the republicans harping about Ayer's anti-Vietnam activities actually served in Veitnam. Colin Powell... did. He doesn't seem to have a problem with Ayers... who for all intents and purposes is a reformed person and accepted in the Chicago community of educators as such and has worked with MANY politicians of all backgrounds. So Liddy can reform... but Ayers can't. Is that what you are implying?

Pretty low tactics, there.

And since the Woods fund was mentioned... let's just read their mission statement...

The fund describes itself as "a grantmaking foundation whose goal is to increase opportunities for less advantaged people and communities in the metropolitan area, including the opportunity to shape decisions affecting them. The foundation works primarily as a funding partner with nonprofit organizations. Woods supports nonprofits in their important roles of engaging people in civic life, addressing the causes of poverty and other challenges facing the region, promoting more effective public policies, reducing racism and other barriers to equal opportunity, and building a sense of community and common ground."

This is the foundation where both Obama and Ayers served on the same board. Wow... this sounds like a... scary den of terrorism! LOL.

This thread has gotten way off topic. ;) Just like McCain's campaign, not surprisingly. The more republicans harp about a perceived negative it shows that they are out of touch with the needs of the people and what really matters... finding solutions to the problems at hand. McCain doesn't have any solutions, thus he focuses on Ayers. What's funny is that I can bet none of the republicans harping about Ayer's anti-Vietnam activities actually served in Veitnam. Colin Powell... did. He doesn't seem to have a problem with Ayers... who for all intents and purposes is a reformed person and accepted in the Chicago community of educators as such and has worked with MANY politicians of all backgrounds. So Liddy can reform... but Ayers can't. Is that what you are implying?

Pretty low tactics, there.

And since the Woods fund was mentioned... let's just read their mission statement...

The fund describes itself as "a grantmaking foundation whose goal is to increase opportunities for less advantaged people and communities in the metropolitan area, including the opportunity to shape decisions affecting them. The foundation works primarily as a funding partner with nonprofit organizations. Woods supports nonprofits in their important roles of engaging people in civic life, addressing the causes of poverty and other challenges facing the region, promoting more effective public policies, reducing racism and other barriers to equal opportunity, and building a sense of community and common ground."

This is the foundation where both Obama and Ayers served on the same board. Wow... this sounds like a.... scary den of terrorism! LOL.

I couldn't agree with everything you've been saying throughout this thread more.

This thread has gotten way off topic. ;) Just like McCain's campaign, not surprisingly. The more republicans harp about a perceived negative it shows that they are out of touch with the needs of the people and what really matters... finding solutions to the problems at hand. McCain doesn't have any solutions, thus he focuses on Ayers.

I didn't change the subject, nor did I claim that the Obama launched his political career in Ayers' home was refuted... I believe you made that claim. Well, USA Today's fact checker is wrong. It does matter.


What's funny is that I can bet none of the republicans harping about Ayer's anti-Vietnam activities actually served in Veitnam. Colin Powell... did. He doesn't seem to have a problem with Ayers... who for all intents and purposes is a reformed person and accepted in the Chicago community of educators as such and has worked with MANY politicians of all backgrounds. So Liddy can reform... but Ayers can't. Is that what you are implying?

As tom and I have both pointed out Liddy served his time. As I pointed out elsewhere, Liddy's sentence was commuted by Jimmy Carter, he was accepted into the Hollywood club even appearing in an Al Franken comedy. It's just like Powell, to the left they're OK as long is they're serving their purpose. Ayers, as has been repeatedly noted here, is UNREPENTANT, he wishes he would have bombed more and won't say that he wouldn't do it again. Why can't Obama bring himself to tell us the truth about his relationship and distance himself from an UNREPENTANT terrorist? Reform demands repentance. McCain was forthcoming about his relationship with Liddy, why can't Obama do the same?


This is the foundation where both Obama and Ayers served on the same board. Wow... this sounds like a... scary den of terrorism! LOL.

It's well known that Ayers wants our kids to taught in public schools to be a bunch of radicals for their cause. I think they should learn reading, writing, math, science and how to think for themselves.

It's well known that Ayers wants our kids to taught in public schools to be a bunch of radicals for their cause. I think they should learn reading, writing, math, science and how to think for themselves.
You must not have been alive during the Viet Nam years. The anger against the government was palpable.

It is not "well known" that Ayers wants students to be radicals. Who says this? Have you ever read any of his books since he has been in education?

You must not have been alive during the Viet Nam years. The anger against the government was palpable.

I was born in 1960, the war was on the evening news every night, but as an elementary school student I was more into riding bikes and playing football with my friends. Does palpable anger against our government justify terrorism? If that’s the case, what should all these alleged radical McCain supporters do with their palpable anger?


It is not "well known" that Ayers wants students to be radicals. Who says this? Have you ever read any of his books since he has been in education?

Those who excuse him as some sort of education reformer deny it but it is well know to anyone that’s paid attention or looked deeper into Ayers than the MSM has this year.


Calling Bill Ayers a school reformer is a bit like calling Joseph Stalin an agricultural reformer. (If you find the metaphor strained, consider that Walter Duranty, the infamous New York Times reporter covering the Soviet Union in the 1930s, did, in fact, depict Stalin as a great land reformer who created happy, productive collective farms.) For instance, at a November 2006 education forum in Caracas, Venezuela, with President Hugo Chávez at his side, Ayers proclaimed his support for “the profound educational reforms under way here in Venezuela under the leadership of President Chávez. We share the belief that education is the motor-force of revolution. . . . I look forward to seeing how you continue to overcome the failings of capitalist education as you seek to create something truly new and deeply humane.” Ayers concluded his speech by declaring that “Venezuela is poised to offer the world a new model of education—a humanizing and revolutionary model whose twin missions are enlightenment and liberation,” and then, as in days of old, raised his fist and chanted: “Viva Presidente Chávez! Viva la Revolucion Bolivariana! Hasta la Victoria Siempre!”

As I have shown in previous articles in City Journal, Ayers’s school reform agenda focuses almost exclusively on the idea of teaching for “social justice” in the classroom. This has nothing to do with the social-justice ideals of the Sermon on the Mount or Martin Luther King’s “I Have a Dream” speech. Rather, Ayers and his education school comrades are explicit about the need to indoctrinate public school children with the belief that America is a racist, militarist country and that the capitalist system is inherently unfair and oppressive. As a leader of this growing “reform” movement, Ayers was recently elected vice president for curriculum of the American Education Research Association, the nation’s largest organization of ed school professors and researchers

The Ed Schools’ Latest—and Worst—Humbug (http://www.city-journal.org/html/16_3_ed_school.html)
Obama’s Real Bill Ayers Problem (http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon0423ss.html)

palpable anger?
Some of the guys I knew (friends, classmates, relatives) ran away into hiding, some found a way to become 4F, some managed to get into college or get some girl pregnant for an education or fatherhood deferment, but some got drafted. Few wanted to fight that "conflict" (war had never been declared). There was no honor in it, and returning soldiers were disrespected by the American people. The Weathermen were trying to make a point--"Stop this war!" Three of their own died from their bombing, and one policeman died. What would you have done had you had a low draft number?


Those who excuse him as some sort of education reformer deny it but it is well know to anyone that's paid attention or looked deeper into Ayers than the MSM has this year.
Yup. I figured you hadn't read any of his books on education.

Some of the guys I knew (friends, classmates, relatives) ran away into hiding, some found a way to become 4F, some managed to get into college or get some girl pregnant for an education or fatherhood deferment, but some got drafted. Few wanted to fight that "conflict" (war had never been declared). There was no honor in it, and returning soldiers were disrespected by the American people. The Weathermen were trying to make a point--"Stop this war!" Three of their own died from their bombing, and one policeman died. What would you have done had you had a low draft number?

As to your last first, I would have served my country. My question is still how does any of the rest of it justify terrorism?


Yup. I figured you hadn't read any of his books on education.

And that means I don't know enough about the man and his philosophy to know I don't want our education system following his agenda?

As to your last first, I would have served my country. My question is still how does any of the rest of it justify terrorism?
It doesn't, but this country was in bad shape, and each of us took whatever road we could to survive and to try to make it better.


And that means I don't know enough about the man and his philosophy to know I don't want our education system following his agenda?
Yes, you don't know who he is and what his philosophy is as an educator.

It doesn't, but this country was in bad shape, and each of us took whatever road we could to survive and to try to make it better.

Quite frankly, my part of the country was just fine and I find it ludicrous to link Ayers' terrorism to surviving and trying to make the country "better."


Yes, you don't know who he is and what his philosophy is as an educator.

I've read enough Wondergirl, enough of his own words to know this is not a man I want teaching the teachers that teach our children. Why are you people defending this guy? Do you admire terrorists? As Ayers does, do you admire Chavez, Farrakhan, Che Guevara, Castro?

Quite frankly, my part of the country was just fine
Sorry, but there was no part of the country that was "just fine."


surviving and trying to make the country "better."
The Weathermen wanted to get everyone's attention and they did. The people in charge finally noticed.

I've read enough Wondergirl, enough of his own words to know this is not a man I want teaching the teachers that teach our children. Why are you people defending this guy? Do you admire terrorists? As Ayers does, do you admire Chavez, Farrakhan, Che Guevara, Castro?
You've read only what you've been spoonfed--carefully selected prose. And, by the way, I am a Republican who is fed up big-time.

Sorry, but there was no part of the country that was "just fine."

There isn't much more that I hate than people pretending to know my experience. Were you in Amarillo, TX from 1960 to 1975? It sure seemed pretty darn normal to me.


The Weathermen wanted to get everyone's attention and they did. The people in charge finally noticed.

Ya think? When people go around bombing things people take notice. I think there's a much better way don't you?


You've read only what you've been spoonfed--carefully selected prose. And, by the way, I am a Republican who is fed up big-time.

LOL, again, I love it when people tell me what I know. Is being a fed up Republican another excuse to defend terrorists?

By the way, I find it interesting after watching the "Obama lovefest" here that I would be told I'm being "spoonfed." LOL

There isn't much more that I hate than people pretending to know my experience. Were you in Amarillo, TX from 1960 to 1975? It sure seemed pretty darn normal to me.
Remind me how old you were back then.

I know a librarian in Fairview. I'll give him a call to find out if he rememebers how things were in that area.

Remind me how old you were back then.

Depends on the year. But so what, I have an excellent memory... plus I was actually there.


I know a librarian in Fairview. I'll give him a call to find out if he rememebers how things were in that area.

Uh, Which Fairview, TX (http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Amarillo&1s=TX&2c=Fairview&2s=TX)?

Depends on the year. But so what, I have an excellent memory... plus I was actually there.
You were riding your bike and eating Mom's chocolate chip cookies and mostly oblivious, I suspect.

Uh, Which Fairview, TX (http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Amarillo&1s=TX&2c=Fairview&2s=TX)?
Yup, that's the one -- right down the road from you. Or weren't you there in 1966?

As tom and I have both pointed out Liddy served his time. As I pointed out elsewhere, Liddy's sentence was commuted by Jimmy Carter, he was accepted into the Hollywood club even appearing in an Al Franken comedy.

It's well known that Ayers wants our kids to taught in public schools to be a bunch of radicals for their cause. I think they should learn reading, writing, math, science and how to think for themselves.

You people kill me. So John McCain's friends consist of "reformed" Nazi sympathizers, convicted criminals and a swindler (Keating) who stole almost 4 BILLION DOLLARS from people's savings. But this doesn't matter at all. Liddy's okay, because John McCain says it and Hollywood welcomed him so it must be so, right?

You know... a vote for McCain in the eyes of the world is a vote for America's decline. I don't know if the people here realize this. America is sinking right now. The world is waiting to see if we choose progress and something different than the status quo. This election is historic and I hate to tell you but you are on the wrong side of the fight, my friend.

You were riding your bike and eating Mom's chocolate chip cookies and mostly oblivious, I suspect.

Let's see, it was on the evening news every night, I had relatives and friend's relatives serving and was getting closer to draft age while the war was still raging so yeah, I was fully aware of the war. Still, life was pretty normal around here.


Yup, that's the one -- right down the road from you. Or weren't you there in 1966?

Uh, the map listed 10 different locations for Fairview, TX. The one right down the road from me (http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/FF/hrf32.html) is in the middle of nowhere 12 miles from the nearest highway and had population of 75 in the last census. I doubt seriously things were too out of control among a handful of farmers and ranchers.

You people kill me. So John McCain's friends consist of "reformed" Nazi sympathizers, convicted criminals and a swindler (Keating) who stole almost 4 BILLION DOLLARS from people's savings. But this doesn't matter at all. Liddy's okay, because John McCain says it and Hollywood welcomed him so it must be so, right?

This on McCain has all been sufficiently dealt with elsewhere on this board, and you still can't see the difference. McCain has acknowledged his lapses, dealt with Liddy being a friend and was completely exonerated in Keating. Obama does no wrong, admits nothing and moves the goal post as he sees fit. McCain has been thoroughly scrutinized in the media and Obama gets a pass. The public deserves such a thorough scrutiny of Obama.


You know... a vote for McCain in the eyes of the world is a vote for America's decline. I don't know if the people here realize this. America is sinking right now. The world is waiting to see if we choose progress and something different than the status quo. This election is historic and I hate to tell you but you are on the wrong side of the fight, my friend.

You know, I think being on the right side of the fight is voting for my country's and my best best interest, I don't care what the rest of world thinks... they can have their own elections.

You know, I think being on the right side of the fight is voting for my country's and my best best interest, I don't care what the rest of world thinks...they can have their own elections.

Like I said before. Isolationist.

Hello:

What did Barry Goldwater say?? ".. extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! ...moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!"

Dude! He's da man! Uhhhh. Isn't he the father of the modern right wing?? I think so.

Besides, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Did the Vietnam war end sooner because of the Weathermen? Was even ONE life saved by their actions?? Maybe.

Do I support civil disobedience - even NON civil disobedience to make my point? I do. In fact, I view dissent as the highest form of patriotism. But, that's just me (and our founders, of course).

Was Liddy's crime high minded?? No, he was CHEATING!!

excon

Was even ONE life saved by their actions??

Don't know of any lives saved .I do know that Brian V. McDonnell a police officer was killed by their bombing and and Robert Fogarty another officer was severely wounded including loss of vision.

I know they plotted to put a terror nail bomb designed to kill and maim at a Fort Dix event . That blew up in their faces. 3 of them died in that explosion.

I do know that they attacked Brinks Guards close to where I live killing two police officers, Edward O'Grady and Waverly Brown, and a Brinks guard, Peter Paige.

So no ;I don't think they saved any lives . They were terrorist murderers or attempted murderers... no different than Klansmen torching black churches or abortion clinic bombers .

Hello:

What did Barry Goldwater say???? ".. extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! ...moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!"

Dude! He's da man! Uhhhh. Isn't he the father of the modern right wing??? I think so.

Besides, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Did the Vietnam war end sooner because of the Weathermen? Was even ONE life saved by their actions??? Maybe.

Do I support civil disobedience - even NON civil disobedience to make my point? I do. In fact, I view dissent as the highest form of patriotism. But, that's just me (and our founders, of course).

Was Liddy's crime high minded???? No, he was CHEATING!!!!

excon

Ex.. thank you for saying this. I couldn't agree with you more.

They were terrorist murderers or attempted murderers....no different than Klansmen torching black churches or abortion clinic bombers .Hello again, tom:

Yeah, war is hell... People get hurt...

However, if you put the Weathermen's actions in the context of the Vietnam war, you might reach a different conclusion.

You speak of 3 or 4 dead people... Yes, that's tragic... But you, of course, don't mention the 58,000 boys who got hurt in Vietnam - no, who got KILLED and DIDN'T come home. Then there were the 150,000 who got maimed! Did you know any of those boys?

This was a needless war, carried on for political purposes. I remember. Day after day they would show on TV, the dead Americans on the battlefield. Then they'd show our government trying to decide what shape the table should be at the peace talks??

WHAT SHAPE THE TABLE SHOULD BE, WHILE AMERICAN BOYS DIED?? God Bless the Weathermen.

excon

Like I said before. Isolationist.

LOL, how does that make me "isolationist?" You guys like to throw labels like that around with no basis, and it’s especially funny after hearing the left scream, rant, rage and ramble on throughout the Bush administration about us meddling in the affairs of other nations. But I get it, when the left isn’t busy intimidating others with their intolerant views, changing the law and social landscape by judicial fiat and trying to silence conservatives they’re busy looking for validation and approval of their guilt-driven ideology. I don’t need the approval of a bunch of “progressive” Europeans to boost my ego. That makes me independent, not isolationist.

You guys like to throw labels like that around with no basis
Who's throwing out labels with no basis such as "socialist" or "terrorist" or "Arab" or have even yelled "kill him"??

Btw, Adam Smith who wrote the bible of modern capitalism (The Wealth of Nations) said this: "It is reasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense not only in proportion to their revenue, but in something more than that proportion."

Who's throwing out labels with no basis such as "socialist" or "terrorist" or "Arab" or have even yelled "kill him"??

Wondergirl, the lady that called Obama and “Arab” was rebuffed by McCain. There is NO evidence that anyone ever yelled “kill him” at a McCain rally and the Secret Service investigation concluded it never happened (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/john-mccain-scolds-radical-right-wing-supporter-268190-3.html#post1324575). As for someone yelling “terrorist,” the outraged crowds can’t seem to pinpoint that one either. Where’s the proof?

As for the “socialist” charge, what else would you call Obama’s plan to redistribute wealth, what else should we call the vision Obama has been working on his “entire adult life to help build an America where economic justice is being served?” What else should we call Obama’s plan for health care, universal national service and "restoring fairness to the economy?" It sounds a hell of a lot like socialism to me. And for that matter, what about his now reportedly confirmed membership in the socialist New Party (http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/10/08/will-msm-report-obama-membership-socialist-new-party)?


Btw, Adam Smith who wrote the bible of modern capitalism (The Wealth of Nations) said this: "It is reasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense not only in proportion to their revenue, but in something more than that proportion."

As if that’s not the case now (http://www.house.gov/jec/publications/109/rr109-36.pdf)?

But of course Smith was being very specific about for which the rich should pay... in this case it was house-rents:
Adam Smith - An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations - The Adam Smith Institute (http://www.adamsmith.org/smith/won-b5-c2-article-1-ss3.htm)

As for the “socialist” charge, what else would you call Obama's plan to redistribute wealth, what else should we call the vision Obama has been working on his “entire adult life to help build an America where economic justice is being served?” What else should we call Obama's plan for health care, universal national service and "restoring fairness to the economy?" It sounds a hell of a lot like socialism to me. And for that matter, what about his now reportedly confirmed membership in the socialist New Party (http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/10/08/will-msm-report-obama-membership-socialist-new-party)?


He also has a more radical left voting record then the only confirmed admitted socialist member of the Senate... Bernie Sanders (Vt.)(so does Biden for that matter . )

There is NO evidence that anyone ever yelled “kill him” at a McCain rally and the Secret Service investigation concluded it never happened (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/john-mccain-scolds-radical-right-wing-supporter-268190-3.html#post1324575).
Yes, McCain had the integrity to tell her Obama is not an Arab. She said in some confusion, "No? He's not?" and when McCain said no, the crowd booed. The other happened at a Palin rally and the cry from the same guy was first "terrorist" and then "kill him." Both are available on film. McCain finally realized that he and his buddy were whipping up the crowds into getting the wrong idea about Obama. McCain stopped, but Palin has not.

what else would you call Obama's plan to redistribute wealthAll taxation is wealth redistribution. Whether it's a conservative that does it or a liberal that does it.

but of course Smith was being very specific about for which the rich should pay....in this case it was house-rents
Yeah, interpretation. Just like the 2nd Amendment speaks of a well-armed militia, not unorganized individuals owning guns.

As for the “socialist” charge, what else would you call Obama’s plan to redistribute wealth, what else should we call the vision Obama has been working on his “entire adult life to help build an America where economic justice is being served?” What else should we call Obama’s plan for health care, universal national service and "restoring fairness to the economy?" It sounds a hell of a lot like socialism to me. And for that matter, what about his now reportedly

So what do you call a republican who gives major tax breaks to the ultra-wealthy? Is this by your own definition socialism for the very wealthy? See how ridiculous this accusation is? He and Palin chose this word because it is a hot button for white males between the ages of 45 and 60.

As for healthcare let's just call it what it is... a compassionate investment. Oh but wait, you don't know what compassion is. When someone can't pay their medical bills guess what... they are bankrupt and don't pay ANY of their lenders. So the populace not only absorbs this in higher physicians fees but in higher costs for goods all around.

All taxation is wealth redistribution. Whether it's a conservative that does it or a liberal that does it.

Huh? What’s your definition of redistribution of wealth? Is building roads, schools, paying for public safety, defense, the justice system and representation “redistribution of wealth?”

Huh? What’s your definition of redistribution of wealth? Is building roads, schools, paying for public safety, defense, the justice system and representation “redistribution of wealth?”

Of course! Not everyone uses all these services equally. People who cannot afford cars do not benefit from beautifully paved roads. People who live 20 minutes from the fire house do not benefit as much from the fire department as people only 3 minutes away. The rich do not benefit from food stamps. The poor do not benefit from lowered capital gains taxes.

Whatever you do to change the tax structure is just a DIFFERENT redistribution of wealth, which was Powell's point and a good one.

So what do you call a republican who gives major tax breaks to the ultra-wealthy? Is this by your own definition socialism for the very wealthy? See how ridiculous this accusation is? He and Palin chose this word because it is a hot button for white males between the ages of 45 and 60.

What do you call a top rate of 94 percent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#History_of_top_rat es), fair? The top rate was 70 percent from 1964 to 1981 when it was lowered to 50 percent. How in God’s name can anyone justify stealing over half of someone’s income, let alone 94 percent? And why is it that you Obama supporters keep playing the race card? You guys have a funny way of showing you aren’t racist.


As for healthcare let's just call it what it is... a compassionate investment. Oh but wait, you don't know what compassion is. When someone can't pay their medical bills guess what... they are bankrupt and don't pay ANY of their lenders. So the populace not only absorbs this in higher physicians fees but in higher costs for goods all around.

Have you taken over for Babram with the insults and personal attacks? Compassion involves helping someone of my own free will, not taking my money to give to someone else. You don't know a darn thing about how compassionate I am so go attack someone else.

Obama had to know Ayers if Obama was the distributing the money. - ineffectively I might add.




2003 CAC final report on the effectiveness of the Annenberg grant compared test scores in so-called Annenberg schools, which had received the benefit of some $150 million in outside grant money, to test scores in comparable schools. It concluded:

“There were no statistically significant differences in student achievement between Annenberg schools and demographically similar non-Annenberg schools. This indicates that there was no Annenberg effect on achievement.


I cannot fathom those of you who justify the bombings of the weatherunderground.

What's next? Justifying suicide bombing or head chopping?


----------------------------------------------------

OBAMA TAX CUT 'REFUNDS' THOSE WHO DON'T PAY | National Center for Policy Analysis (http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17131)

THE RICH PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE | National Center for Policy Analysis (http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17112)

Do us from the right waste our time pointing out the FACTS, only to lose you liberals to the EMOTIONAL APPEALS of the Obama campaign?

----------------------------------------------------

You see, because I rely on the where Obama stands on the issues , when he does not flip flop,


Weapons of Mass Discussion: Collection of Obama Flip-Flops (http://massdiscussion.blogspot.com/2008/06/collection-of-obama-flip-flops.html)

It does not matter if Colin Powell or President Bush himself, endorses Obama. :D

And why is it that you Obama supporters keep playing the race card? You guys have a funny way of showing you aren’t racist.


Racist... :rolleyes:. I was merely pointing out who McCain's target demographic is. Nothing more and nothing less.

As for a personal attack, I'm sorry I offended you. You're right, I don't know you and it wasn't fair to judge your compassion. Some dude has been riding through our neighborhood stealing all the Obama signs and I'm not feeling very compassionate myself... So can we call it even? :)

After much discussion with you and other conservatives, I'm beginning to see the distinct differences. Conservatives have a more individualistic view and they seem to see America as an entity alone and independent from the world and each individual's position in the nation based on his or her own merits. While this certainly seems like a convenient way to live, i.e. whatever you make for yourself, you keep for yourself and the belief that one should have no obligation to help anyone else except himself, there are problems with this view. You sort of need to see the forest for the trees. We are not a bunch of individuals-- we are a nation. We are dependent on one another, a good analogy is the human body. It's great to have a healthy heart, but if the liver goes bad so does the heart. We can't keep up some parts of the nation while letting other parts fall into grievous disrepair. It weakens the strength of the whole nation.

Unfortunately not all states are created economically equal. Some of them have a lot of money. Some of them have very little. Some have large populations and some are sparsely populated. And so taxes work to even it all out. And that seems to be what this argument is about. No?

it does not matter if Colin Powell or President Bush himself, endorses Obama. Actually you are correct there. Even if Jesus the Son of God himself endorsed Obama the republicans would still find a way to smear and discredit it. To be so narrow minded is a waste of a lifetime.

Unfortunately not all states are created economically equal. Some of them have a lot of money. Some of them have very little. Some have large populations and some are sparsely populated. And so taxes work to even it all out. And that seems to be what this argument is about. No?

You hit on an important point here. Before the 16th amendment taxes indeed were constitutionally mandated to be proportional .

The amendment reads :

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Before that the Constitution in Article 1 sec 8 was very clear on the subject :

Section 8: The Congress shall have power
To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

This is in my view when taxation drifted away from the common good to target specific social engineering projects paid for by specific targeted citizens. The U.S. Constitution allows the Congress to collect taxes to pay debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States.It's the use and abuse of tax law, and the power of that amendment, that allows Congress to legislate theft. They made it worse during WWII when they began mandatory withholding instead of a pay as you go system. I guarantee if everyone had to cut a quarterly check for their share of the income tax obligation the system would change rapidly.

Obama and you I guess broadly interprets "the general welfare " as a means for "Redistributing Wealth" or "Spreading the Wealth Around."

However, the ability of Congress to levy income taxes was never meant to be a tool for the "Redistribution of Wealth." This concept is an abuse of power.Even worse cynically the tax code is reduced to being a tool to use to win elections.
This idea that you can give a tax rebate to someone who doesn't pay taxes is an abuse also .This is a play on words and if Obama had the integrity to call it what it is ; another welfare plan he would not be fooling so many people into buying into his program.

Let Obama spread his own wealth around. There is no virtue in charity if it is compulsory .

Actually you are correct there. Even if Jesus the Son of God himself endorsed Obama the republicans would still find a way to smear and discredit it. To be so narrow minded is a waste of a lifetime.

Very good point here!

Racist... :rolleyes:. I was merely pointing out who McCain's target demographic is. Nothing more and nothing less.

I beg to differ of course. One of the things Bush has gotten little or no credit for is the racial diversity of his administration. When minorities don’t fall in line with the liberal ideology they tend to be attacked by the left, think Miguel Estrada, Michael Steele, Condi Rice – and Colin Powell before he endorsed Obama. McCain has a female running mate for crying out loud. We don’t need talk of “white male” target demographics, it does not reflect mine, McCain’s or the Republican party’s philosophy and it feeds unnecessary tensions.


As for a personal attack, I'm sorry I offended you. You're right, I don't know you and it wasn't fair to judge your compassion. Some dude has been riding through our neighborhood stealing all the Obama signs and I'm not feeling very compassionate myself... So can we call it even? :)

Fair enough. :)


After much discussion with you and other conservatives, I'm beginning to see the distinct differences. Conservatives have a more individualistic view and they seem to see America as an entity alone and independent from the world and each individual's position in the nation based on his or her own merits. While this certainly seems like a convenient way to live, i.e. whatever you make for yourself, you keep for yourself and the belief that one should have no obligation to help anyone else except himself, there are problems with this view. You sort of need to see the forest for the trees. We are not a bunch of individuals-- we are a nation. We are dependent on one another, a good analogy is the human body. It's great to have a healthy heart, but if the liver goes bad so does the heart. We can't keep up some parts of the nation while letting other parts fall into grievous disrepair. It weakens the strength of the whole nation.

Nice analogies but still off base. Why in the world (no pun intended) would Republicans push for free trade agreements if we were comfortable being “an entity alone?” How many Christian conservative dollars do you suppose go to help people in other nations? We certainly see the need to be engaged with the rest of the world and to help where needed, but we also believe in helping others help themselves wherever possible so they too can be productive, responsible contributors to society. It’s an empowerment that brings freedom and self-respect as opposed to an “empowerment” that leads to dependence.

One of the defining concepts of this country is independence, but independence does not equal isolationism. As a conservative Republican I’m not willing to cede our independence, personally or nationally - particularly for such a lame reason as worrying about what the rest of the world (especially Europe) thinks about us. That’s silly in my opinion, and it belies the left’s mantra of diversity and tolerance of others different from ourselves. I appreciate and celebrate the individual, it would be a dull placed if everyone thought, spoke and acted the same, so why would anyone that claims to appreciate diversity and tolerance want to be more like European countries instead of being the United States of America, and additionally give up some of our sovereign rights in the process?

Actually you are correct there. Even if Jesus the Son of God himself endorsed Obama the republicans would still find a way to smear and discredit it. To be so narrow minded is a waste of a lifetime.

There you go again, showing us your narrow mindedness while criticizing the alleged narrow minded.

I beg to differ of course. One of the things Bush has gotten little or no credit for is the racial diversity of his administration.

I was happy to see minorities in Bush's cabinet. They just had a leader making very bad decisions and in over his head.

Oh and McCain's female running mate? Don't even get me started. She is an embarrassment and Mr. McCain committed an act of sexism whether he sees his own blunder or not. He impulsively chose (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/21/nyt-mag-lifts-curtain-on_n_136632.html) the Alaskan beauty queen with no brains (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/21/palin-vp-senate/) and this perpetuates the stereotype that women are only picked over for their looks and when they are unable to fulfill the demands of the position it makes all women look bad and impedes their progress. So thanks John McCain.. the man who will do anything foolish just to try to win. For him apparently it's not how you get there... as long as you just get there. The American people aren't buying it.


How many Christian conservative dollars do you suppose go to help people in other nations? We certainly see the need to be engaged with the rest of the world and to help where needed, but we also believe in helping others help themselves wherever possible so they too can be productive, responsible contributors to society.

Oh lots... with strings attached. I originally wrote something here... but have decided against getting into it.


As a conservative Republican I'm not willing to cede our independence, personally or nationally - particularly for such a lame reason as worrying about what the rest of the world (especially Europe) thinks about us.

What they think is only a small part of it. It also matters to realize that our own actions have a global impact. We can't act completely independently because as the global financial crisis shows us, the decisions we make here affects people all across the globe.


It's an empowerment that brings freedom and self-respect as opposed to an “empowerment” that leads to dependence.

I've mentioned Obama's idea of students volunteering and doing community service for college tuition. This is in no way making anyone dependent. In fact quite the opposite. McCain, on the other hand, hasn't offered any ideas.

Seems that some wouldn't know a good thing if it came up and hit them smack in the face. It's a shame.

p.s. the dude stealing the Obama signs in our neighborhood was apprehended. He was drunk and sending his 8 year old daughter into peoples yards to bring them back to him... classy!

I don't have time to address all of this right now so I'll leave it at this one:


Oh lots... with strings attached. I originally wrote something here... but have decided against getting into it.

Like what, an accounting of where our dollars go? I know I like to get an update once in a while on the girls we sponsor in El Salvador and east Africa. Maybe a short letter, a picture to put on our refrigerator to remind us to pray for them or especially a crayon scribbled drawing. Or in other words, we like to know we're making a difference in their lives.

Actually you are correct there. Even if Jesus the Son of God himself endorsed Obama the republicans would still find a way to smear and discredit it. To be so narrow minded is a waste of a lifetime.

You prove my point.

I rely on facts.

You rely on emotion and personal attacks.

I know you don't believe in God, so it is disingenuous to state what you said in your second sentence.

You see, Colin Powell or Oprah or Madonna or Hamas can endorse Obama,
Power Line - Hamas Endorses Obama (http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2008/04/020315.php)
It will not change my mind because I THINK FOR MYSELF - quite the contrary of being swayed by endorsements.

The fact that Obama believes in increasing taxes, in abortion, in government having more powers in making decisions in our lives is what I am against. Colin Powell's endorsement does not change my mind.

By the way, just because you don't see things like I do, does not lead me to the conclusion that you are narrow minded - just that you disagree. ;)

it will not change my mind because I THINK FOR MYSELF ...
The fact that Obama believes in increasing taxes, in abortion, in government having more powers in making decisions in our lives is what I am against.
You are against it because a book tells you it's wrong hence you do not think for yourself.

Also you have misrepresented the candidates position. For 95% of people in the US their taxes will go down with Obama as president. He does not believe ib abortion, he believes in a woman's choice, Bush gave the government more powers to infiltrate your life than any president could ever do afterward.

Tell me, NK - how can ones taxes be cut when they don't even pay taxes

The Tax Foundation - Number of Americans Paying Zero Federal Income Tax Grows to 43.4 Million (http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/1410.html)


The only way this could be accomplished is by credits and refunds.

So from the same pie, remember Obama does not discuss how to grow the pie, more is taken from those who pay taxes to be redistributed to those who don't pay taxes.

Remember that there are other taxes - AMT, state, local, sales, property taxes that have to paid. Have you looked at a cell phone or cable bill and noticed all the taxes and fees?

You can insult me all you want, you can insult the Bible all you want, but the facts are the facts.

Again, another case of countering emotional and personal attacks with facts and logic. ;):D

So from the same pie, remember Obama does not discuss how to grow the pie,
Yes, he does. Haven't you been listening?


more is taken from those who pay taxes to be redistributed to those who don't pay taxes
IF one makes more than $250,000 per year. Do you? I don't, and never have even with my husband working and my working two jobs.


Remember that there are other taxes - AMT, state, local, sales, property taxes that have to paid. Have you looked at a cell phone or cable bill and noticed all the taxes and fees?
And there are ways, even now, to make those taxes less.

Obama is using the Clintoon canard. He campaigned on a promise of tax cuts for everyone to be paid for by a surtax on the top 2%.

His first economic speech after he was elected announced the largest tax increase in US history.

We certainly see the need to be engaged with the rest of the world and to help where needed, but we also believe in helping others help themselves wherever possible so they too can be productive, responsible contributors to society. It’s an empowerment that brings freedom and self-respect as opposed to an “empowerment” that leads to dependence.

One of the defining concepts of this country is independence, but independence does not equal isolationism. As a conservative Republican I’m not willing to cede our independence, personally or nationally - particularly for such a lame reason as worrying about what the rest of the world (especially Europe) thinks about us. That’s silly in my opinion, and it belies the left’s mantra of diversity and tolerance of others different from ourselves. I appreciate and celebrate the individual, it would be a dull placed if everyone thought, spoke and acted the same, so why would anyone that claims to appreciate diversity and tolerance want to be more like European countries instead of being the United States of America, and additionally give up some of our sovereign rights in the process?

This all sounds great and I couldn't agree with it more. Who could object to any of this? And if this was what the Republican Party had been advocating and doing for the last 8 years, I think we'd all feel proud of the current administration. But these grand thoughts have not translated into grand actions and have, I think, turned out to be a cover for a lot of rather despiccable actions.

This all sounds great and I couldn't agree with it more. Who could object to any of this? And if this was what the Republican Party had been advocating and doing for the last 8 years, I think we'd all feel proud of the current administration. But these grand thoughts have not translated into grand actions and have, I think, turned out to be a cover for a lot of rather despiccable actions.

First asking, this was a response to Merris' comment "After much discussion with you and other conservatives," so this was a personal perspective. But yes, the Republican party has failed in many ways to let's say, agree with my perspective. With that said, I still think they're way closer to being true to my view than the Democrats are in executing their "mantra of diversity and tolerance."

speechlesstx, sorry if I didn't follow the thread closely. I thought you were speaking for neo conservative Republicans.

speechlesstx, sorry if i didn't follow the thread closely. I thought you were speaking for neo conservative Republicans.

No prob. :)