Story merged

Evening,

I've been seeing this girl recently (I made a post about the girl I met in a bookstore several weeks ago) and so far it's been going well.

Our first date was brisk and casual. We went around some quaint coffee shops and book stores and got to know each other.

Today we had our second date and it was to buy her a bicycle, since she has moved to the inner city and needs a new mode of transport (She works at a bookstore, speaks fluent french, just moved back from Europe and studies art history, so the bicycle makes sense).

I know bicycle shopping was a weird idea for a second date but it worked. It was quite a long drive, so we talked and flirted a lot on the way there. The guy who sold vintage bikes lived in a house converted to be a giant aviary and was quite simply one of the most eccentric men I've ever met. He had an antique bed post planted in the garden bed and photos the East Timorese independence which made for interesting conversation. It turned out to be quite an adventure.

On the way back we stopped at a little tea house, chatted for quite some time and really clicked. Things are going along swimmingly at this point. She seems very comfortable, laughs a lot and touches my arm enough times for me to tease her about it.

By late afternoon we end up back at her apartment to assemble the bike. It's a struggle, since I am mechanically inept but we manage to make it fun. We try to wipe black bike grease all over each other and even hold hands for abit.

But here comes the clincher -

She gets a phone call on her mobile. I tease her by throwing her hand away and saying - 'you better go get that'

It turns out to be a male friend of hers, who she invites over. Five minutes later, he's at her door.

It doesn't help that said friend just came off a yacht party and is slightly tipsy. He changes the vibe immediately by flopping onto the couch. Girl and I both sit down, and conversation slows to a stand still. Despite this, she seems pleased to have him there and we make general banter.

After 15-20 minutes I decide its time for me to go. It's a smooth enough exit as I have to meets friends later in the evening so I better go to get ready.

She tells me that she'll walk me to my car and calls out to her recumbent friend 'stay right there!'

'I'm not going anywhere,' he mumbles (of course he dam well won't).

Girl follows me outside and strokes my back saying - 'I had a great time'. We get to my car and hug really closely. I am mindful that this is the most intimate hug we've had so far, as she has her hands around my neck, and mine are around her waist. I see this as strange considering what just happened.

She leans in to kiss me on the mouth. I miss. And we end up kissing on the neck (weird but not too awkward strangely enough). She says she wants to see me again.

As I drive home she sends me a text saying - 'You forgot to show me how to wrestle. We'll have to hang out soon so you can!' (I am a submission wrestler and was reluctant to tell her at first. But when she found out she became fascinated and wanted me to show her).

But the whole time I'm still thinking 'invite a friend? Huh?'. I made sure to send the right messages in her apartment, by leaning away, not being too touchy etc. Just generally trying to communicate that I wasn't interested in sex, so I don't see why she needed to have a friend come over.

It just seemed like a poor way to end an otherwise really good date. Rant over, any insight from you all?

I don't think she intentionally invited her friend on the date with you. To be honest she might not have seen the impact of her decision to even let him come over. She didn't call him and invite him over. You two have many dates to come.

I'd like to add I am guilty of actually invited a friend on a date. I realized later on it wasn't a bright idea but at the time I thought it was okay. Sometimes it was the spare of a moment because I was hanging out with a friend and received a called from a guy asking to go out. I didn't want to leave my friend but I asked if it was okay to bring her. Also, there were times when a guy is over then my friend called wanting to come over and I allowed it. These incidents were rare but it happen. Does it bother you that the friend was a guy? Also, if it bothers you that much you can always talk to her about it.

No it didn't bother me that it was a guy. I guess the date had been coming along so nicely, a hairy drunkard at the end seemed... odd.

Second date, and you had fun, and the door is open for another date. Don't trip, as you learn more about her and her life, just keep having fun. Isn't that what dating is about????

I'll bet she is watching for your reactions, as you are a stranger to her as well.

She has guy friends, so what?? At this point, don't worry about it. Don't even ask about him either as, why should you care if there is competition???

Let nothing make you show doubt in yourself, or make you look jealous.

Let her bring it up, and explain in her own time.

Nothing to see here. Keep moving along.

I have a conundrum. Does the girl I’m seeing like me, since she never calls me?

When I see her in personal, it seems like she does. We kiss, we cuddle, we lock fingers. But she never calls me after we see each other and waits for me to call. Sometimes she’ll miss my phone call and return them, but she’s never the one the initiate.

I’m not particularly clingy, and I don’t like crowding into people’s space unless they show me that they want me to.

So last night we had our fourth date. It’s now the following afternoon Sydney-time. Should I call? Or should I wait this time, to see what hand she plays?

Wait another day maybe then let her know that you had a great time. Don't Try to seem too intrested because it will actually lower her interest in you knowing that she has you at her call.

It could be she is just the kind of girl that is use to a man doing all the work? Who really knows off just the info you gave us. She obviously has some interest otherwise she would not be kissing you and acting that way.

Lets wait and see what some of the more experienced members have to say.

Why do you have to introduce this issue into your thinking at all? You don't. You are possibly CREATING the issue where none exists.

You like her, so call her. Stop counting. Stop needing her to initiate. If she responds as well as it sounds like she is, why in the world would you want to screw that up with made up crap?

And the next time you start wondering bad stuff about her, whatever it is, apply this same thinking. This is how people take fun, happy times and gum it up with dumb pointless stuff.

Just call her and make the arrangements. Sheesh.

Some women still in this day believe that it is not appropriate to call a man. Maybe that is her thoughts. Guess you need to ask her? Maybe she is using you as a "boy toy"? Who knows, Simply politely ask her the next time you are together and see what her response is.

Id not drive yourself mad over this unless you genuinely need to be with a woman who takes more initiative... and that's OK if it's the case.

I don't think its too much to be willing to chase her. Don't forget to live your own life too... few people want a "butler", at least long term. Gets boring for most women.

Don't play head games, but make sure you are taking time for friends, family, work, play, etc. these are part of the fun of getting to know someone new... not only do you get them, but their social network, new experiences, new perspectives, etc.

A good way to manage this, and still keep some mystery, is to arrange for some dates well in advance, keep some distance concerning calls/texts/pming, and occasionally surprise her with sudden plans.

Don't assume shell be waiting to make plans with you at the last minute... waiting too long might leave you with "sorry, ive got plans"... so set up a date, make the plans, and then back off. Don't call and text and dote too much. Make the date time the quality time. If she knows all about your week before you meet it takes some small talk off the table.

And then sometimes also knock her off her feet with a "spontaneous" date or other effort. I put it in quotes because you can plan whatever it is in advance, whether it's a flower and an impromptu lunch or whatever...

If the fact she doesn't ever initiate really gets to you, you might need to think about how important this is to you. I love a woman with initiative, drive, and who will put me to the wall to get what she demands. That said, I'm ten years into a great relationship where I know I need to be the aggressor, the initiator, the person driving the ship most of the time. That she's responsive to my actions is enough to offset my wishing shed initiate dates, etc more often.

Sometimes it gets tiring, but I chose to be here so I choose the role. I don't get to stay and also b!tch about it.

If you need a woman who is willing to chase you harder, you don't get to choose to be with this girl and expect her to change substantially. Maybe she's holding back, seeing what you'll do. Maybe she's just more passive. Maybe she's busy with her own life and there's no sleight whatsoever.

Personally, while I like a woman who will take some initiative, I like even more a woman who has a life, support, friends, and other interests outside of me. Ill be a mate, a lover, a friend... but I'm not good at being a girlfriend and don't want to try to fit that role.

So... don't overthink this too much. If you need to make yourself hold back an extra day before contacting, fine.

Hey guys,

For those regulars on this board, some may remember the book-store girl I’ve been seeing for the past few weeks/month or so. Things had progressing along and there was a fair bit of chemistry, kissing and midnight coffees.

That was until last Wednesday, when we were meant to be going to an indie festival together.

She called me up the day before and said she had to cancel. Her reasoning was that she had not been home to see her family for 3 months and her father sounded teary on the phone. The family was going away for a while on the following day and she needed to see them before they left.

I thought it was a fair excuse, but I also teased her a little about it and she got a little giggly. The conversation ended with:

Bookstore girl: ‘So I can hang out next Tuesday night, because I have a really big French oral assessment on Tuesday day. I need to cram all week.’

Me: ‘That’s almost a week away you dork. I can’t be sure whether I’ll be free so I’ll have to call you about it.’

Bookstore girl: ‘Ok I’m just letting you know that that’s when I’m free.’

Fast forward the rest of the week I didn’t contact her much at all besides one short 5 min phone call. Keep in mind at this point, our last date would have been a week and a half ago.

On Friday night however, she texted me with ‘I’m meant to be studying tonight but I just want to 80s teen movies. What are you upto…?’

My guess is that message was to gauge whether I wanted to hang out that night. Unfortunately, I was out with friends so I told her so.

The following day on Saturday, I still hadn’t called her as I was very busy with writing deadlines. She ended calling me on her break at work, but I couldn’t talk for long, and I told her I had to run.

Now in retrospect, from the time she cancelled our date on Tuesday, through until Saturday, I had been so busy I only called her once (To milk some sympathy because I had suffered a concussion at wrestling). She initiated contact with me twice but I both times I was kind of busy. I only realize this now, in retrospect.

So yesterday being Sunday, I tried to call her. She didn’t pick up or return my call (She always returns my calls within an hour). I called her once more on Monday morning (today) and she texted back –

‘Sup babe? I’m studying in a library text me.’

I replied with ‘When do you have a break? I’ll call you then?’

Her final reply was ‘Not sure. I’ve got a lot to get through. I’ll call you after my exam tomorrow if that’s OK.’

And that was that. It seems like she’s gone completely off me, from initiating contact to no contact at all. I’m now trying to figure out whether it’s worth pursuing. The wussy part of me wants to keep trying at it, but the rational part is telling me that due to a strange set of circumstances, we’ve fudged our chances and should call it quits while dignity remains.

Apologies that was such a long post, and thanks to those who slogged through it. I wanted to give you the whole picture, as I’ve been out of the dating game for so long, I need some good insights.

I have yet to see your other posts, but have you told her that you realised that it may have seemed like you were ignoring her calls, or not having time to talk? Maybe she thought that this was your way of trying to convey that you weren't as interested as she thought?

She might have just backed off, because she thought you did. Just a thought. I think I would simply ask her if you could get together when she isn't busy, and just lay it all out on the table. Tell her that you feel you might have given her the wrong impression, when you were just honestly busy, and then ask her, without a lot of pressure, if this is why she is seeming distant. Like I said, maybe she thought you were backing away.

I would just tell her that although you really like her, not to be afraid to tell you why things have changed.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help, but communication is your best bet! Good luck! :)

Woh woh woh woh wohhh

Pull the rains back bud you are thinkg WAYYY too much abou this

She texted you saying Sup babe.
And gave you a pretty good reason.

Don't let that little needy monster get the best of you :)

In my opinion you have nothing to think about. She is busy and so are you
You are both making time When you can.

So. Stop thinking about what ifs and blowing me off. Because that is just not good
And just enjoy the time you get when you are together.

Yeah its been a while since you have had a date. But all the better to build up for the next one right?

You are not very rational at this point. As I have said you have just left a heavy relationship and you are putting your own fears and jugments onto her.
Which is not fair on her or on you.

So what you need to do is
Just relax. Breath.. and take it slow :)

When she text you next time. Say something like.

When you get a chance would love to take you out for a coffe and a smile. I could use a brake from my work.

Just so its not all about her ;).

Good luck

I must concede that I'm not thinking rationally at all. Which is why I'm here having you level-headed people talk me back down to earth!

The only thing I know right now, is that for whatever reason, she doesn't want to talk to me at this moment.

I replied to her 'can I call you tomorrow' text with:

'Oh that depends.. can you tell me your plans for tomorrow evening? I need a break from all this writing and deadlines.'

I figure if she replies to this positively, then she is genuinely busy today. If she blows me off, then she is probably not interested or playing hard to get.

Does this sound about right?

Its hard. We sadly can't think for other people

If we could it would be easy :)

As I said just take it slow. She wants to take a brake
And I'm sure you guys will do fine

Just play it cool :)

Update:

This is the text I got back after my preceding one:

'um I'm choc a bloc. My friend already booked me this Tuesday night. He has harassed me all last week so I acquiesced to beer on tues.

Wed I'm working then opera with parentals. Thurs research and burleque rehearsal, fri essay writing and video night with work mates, sat working, sat night burleseque gig an birthday drinks, Sunday resting and finishing essay.

It's full on like this until the end of university term... how's your writing going?'

Verbatim. Is it just me, or is she trying to let me take the hint?

Yeah, it sounds like hints-ville to me. She's making sure you know she is busy, and has no time for you. Sorry!

Ok now you go into no contact

Ler her make plans with you :)

Still hope for the best

Regards

Uh huh. The hint is evident. What I still don't get is,

How can a girl go from insinuating that you go over to her house on Friday night.

Call you to see how you're doing on Saturday.

Then ignore you on Sunday?

Can a girl offer some insights into this, is there some feminine rationality that I've missed here? Anything to prevent this from happening again?

This might sound mean, but I don't intend for it to be. No plans on the weekend, feeling lonely, left out and wanting company, followed by better plans on Sunday?

woh woh woh woh wohhh

pull the rains back bud you are thinkg wayyy to much abou this

she texted you saying sup babe.
And gave you a pretty good reason.

Dont let that little needy monster get the best of you :)

in my opinion you have nothing to think about. She is busy and so are you
you are both making time when you can.

So. Stop thinking about what ifs and blowing me off. Because that is just not good
and just enjoy the time you get when you are together.

Yeah its been a while since you have had a date. But all the better to build up for the next one right?

You are not very rational at this point. As i have said you have just left a heavy relationship and you are putting your own fears and jugments onto her.
Which is not fair on her or on you.

So what you need to do is
just relax. Breath.. And take it slow :)

when she text you next time. Say something like.

When you get a chance would love to take you out for a coffe and a smile. I could use a brake from my work.

Just so its not all about her ;).

Good luck



Agreed.

Its still early days

Don't take anything yet

Just wait and see

As I said don't text her wait for her to text you I am sure she will

Best of luck

agreed.

Kitten hon, it's easier to click on "rate this answer" and give an agree that way! ;) Just thought I'd let you know. That way you spread reputation, if you agree with someone. :)

I know lol I was trying to figure out how to do it! Lol Oh and also I did try and give True a rating but it said I have to share the reputation around and I couldn't give her another agree bc/ I think I already did earlier in the day. So I just did it the way I used to when I didn't know how to give a rating. Thanks though!

Just cause I'm new doesn't mean I'm not smart! :) If a woman is occupying her free time with other things.. and never making time for you.. and making sure you know it.. all the time.. I would take the train to find a new chickville.. Being serious I know it will hurt, and it will be hard, but find something or someone else to occupy your time, She obviously doesn't appreciate it.

Well I think from the events of the original post through to the text updates, I'm going no contact. That's established.

But can someone give me some insights on the 360 shift?

I still find it odd that someone can go from calling me on Saturday because she missed me, to ignoring me within 24 hours. I mean she's 24, and from what I know, a sensible, intelligent girl. Almost seems a little juvenile high school.

Haha, surely nothing I said in our 5 minute conversation could have caused her change.

Mate :) why do people cheat on there lovers after 16 years. And leave kids and there lives behind..

The reasons are never good enough my friend.
And there is no point in trying to find a reason.

But nothing has happened yet. Give it a few days and see how it goes :)
Until then try not to think about it.

I know its hard.

It is a little confusing, why she would do that. Do you have friends in common? Could someone have said something that she took the wrong way? Could your ex have said something to someone, and something was said to her? Does she have an ex that she recently split with? It's really hard to speculate. Give it time.

It is a little confusing, why she would do that. Do you have friends in common? Could someone have said something that she took the wrong way? Could your ex have said something to someone, and something was said to her? Does she have an ex that she recently split with? It's really hard to speculate. Give it time.

No common friends. She doesn't know me ex. She hasn't been in a relationship for awhile. She was very stable and intelligent. I have no idea what happened, as I've never experienced anything like this before.

Does anyone have any opinions? I've pretty much given up on pursuing this girl, but some knowledge would at least help me prevent/mitigate this in the future with someone else.

The only thing I can remotely think of, is that she used to joke about how I was seeing other girls. And the last two/three times I spoke to her, I may have come off as terse or hurried. I can only surmise that she thought I was being an elusive jerk. But she never said anything about it, and 24 hours is a short amount of time for her to write me off. Regardless, I thought she would be more mature than to suddenly flip her lid like that.

The only thing that I could really think of in this case is one of two things.

1. She got bored.
2. She met a new guy.

This is just what I think though.

I think your assuming the worst and acting pretty insecure, and needy here, as its way to early for her to even cancel her schedule, or stroke your ego.

Back off of that, and the high unreasonable expectations you have, and balance your life a lot better.

Forget NC, that's not needed, just readjust your attitude, and stop putting her schedule ahead, of your own personal life. Stop taking her busy schedule as a personal affront to your ego.

Have your own stuff to do, giving her space, and making you look confident (which you should be any way), and give it 3/4 days, and send a funny text, and go about your business. Don't expect a quick reply.

Why do you young guys have to be in such a hurry to have someone show love??

Way to soon for anything like that, but the way you react is what will attract her, or push her away. Making a big deal now over... nothing.

Even if this doesn't work, you still have a life that you enjoy.

What is the hurry?? That's what going slow is about.

Talinaman, sage advice as usual. I'm being brash and a little too impulsive. Having said that, I still think her 'I'm too busy indefinitely' message was giving me the hint.

I'll go about life as usual and maybe send her a message in 3 days or so.

With the benefit of hindsight, bookstore girl used to joke all the time about how she thought I was seeing other girls. Combined with the fact that I gave her very little attention last week and didn't call her quickly enough to secure another date probably fizzled her interest a lot. Live and learn.