Greetings to all you Plumbing Gurus here on AMHD...

This is actually my first post after finding this fantastic site and I've been reading through some very interesting conversation threads as you real 'experts' share your knowledge and helpfulness with us 'wanna-be experts'.

So here I am, replacing a Master Bath corner shower in our 15 yr old home after water intrusion through a tile wall caused a stud to swell and bow, cracking several tiles :eek: (The shower walls were originally tile set in mastic over 'greenboard' with only the bottom one foot of the wall being cement board. Replacement will be 100% cement board!)

The wall has been repaired (stud replaced and checked for rot or other water damage), and I'm getting ready to set in a new Lasco fiberglass 34 X 48 pan using a Surefit No-Caulk drain. In all the threads I searched, I've seen no-caulk drains, but not this particular one... and I've got a few questions about this drain.


The instructions specify a bead of silicone under the drain body flange. Elsewhere I've read of plumbers swearing by the use of plumbers putty instead of silicone. I really don't want to lay awake at night wondering about this installation leaking... what would you use?

This drain has a 'split ring', the gasket, and then a 'solid ring' which lays on top of the gasket, there is no compression nut to squeeze the gasket tight, but the gasket 'is' tight when I did a check fit... needed soapy water to assist installing. This upper solid ring just fits loosely around the top of the 2" riser... top of the riser will be even with the top of the ring. What is this 'loose' top solid ring for? :confused:

And lastly, with regards to the drain, would anyone recommend a bead of silicone along the top of the riser where it meets the gasket??? I've replaced the riser stub, so it's new, clean, pipe where the gasket will grab... but again, I don't want to lay awake at night!


So much for the drain installation... I do have a couple 'un-drain-related' questions:

As I set the fiberglass pan in place, I will have some 'cow-pies' of mortar mix to support the base. I recall seeing something online about putting the mix in open plastic bags to control the mess factor and in case the base has to come up again for some reason. Is it important for the mortar to adhere to the base & subfloor... or does it make sense just setting the base on mortar (in bags), make sure it's level, then let the mortar dry..?

And finally (for now :) ), while I'm this deep into this project, I was going to install a new mixer valve... but then got to thinking (this is where I usually get into trouble)... why change the mixer? It's been working fine and nicer new one is $100+. I could just change the scratched escutcheon & handle and call it a day. I think the brand on the installed mixer is "Stanadyne" and it appears to be a cartridge type... not a Moen or Price Pfister, but it works... Remember, this is a 15 yr old installation... is it time to replace, or leave 'er be??

Thanks in advance for your time and consideration... I'm looking forward to this experience and hope to have some pictures to share with you as this project moves forward.

... John

Hi John...

1) Use silicone in this case. I use putty on everything else, but on shower strainers... silicone is best way to go.

2) The solid ring appears to serve two purposes... to protect and drive the neoprene ring into place without damaginbg neoprene ring or the sides of the strainer assembly and it may also aid in determining the correct height to cut the pipe after all this is installed.

3) No need to add silicone anywhere near the neoprene ring as this style strainer assembly will work perfectly as long as you set the base in mortar and you follow directions for drain installation as presented at your post!

I like direct contact with the unit and the mortar, but I protect the floor from moisture by placing plastic sheeting under the entire base.

Walls opened up and the old no-name brand faucet is 15 years old. My opinion... get it out now and you will really sleep better.. ;) I recommend MOEN (best ) or SYmmons (most trouble-free) shower valves.

And, we love pictures... so post away!

Good luck with this... be sure to come back with more anytime!

MARK

Ahhhhh... as a 'newbie', now I see how this works (posting on the board, that is)... I could have expanded on my 'comment' as a reply in the rating of this post (instead of using this 'answer' feature).

At any rate... Thanks for the quick reply Mark! Assuming that 'massplumber' means you're clear across the continent from me, this is one heck of a way to get advice on my project!

I think I also like going with the silicone under the drain body flange. Have to assume the manufacturer knew what they were talking about here.

And your idea on the plastic sheet under the mortar makes sense too. No need to let the underlay plywood soak up any moisture.

Also think we'll put in a Moen faucet mixer... (I'd already purchased one anyway)... Quick question on the mixer installation: The original 'no name' mixer had solder joints right at the body, the new Moen has threaded joints. I'm assuming they don't want you applying heat close to the guts of this thing, hence the threads. So I'm planning on building up the lead in assembly (copper threaded adapter, short copper stub to elbow, another stub down to supply) then screwing these assemblies to the mixer, and making the final sweat joint about a foot away from the mixer. Sound reasonable?

... John

Hi again John!

The moen mixer valve may have threaded fittings on it, but if you clean the inside of the fittings you will find that these threaded fittings can also be solder connected to.

That is, if you clean/flux inside each threaded fitting, you will be able to sweat directly to the valve itself. Check this out by inserting 1/2" copper pipe into the fittings and see for yourself. Be sure to open the faucet or even remove the cartridge assembly before soldering.

Keep us posted as you go! Glad to help where we can.

MARK

Thanks again Mark...

I considered the soldering to threaded inlet, but decided instead to go with the adapters. It may have worked fine, but just didn't seem right.

Also decided to use a different no-caulk shower drain (Oatey) rather than that supplied with the shower pan (SureFit). I like the compression ring above the gasket, just seems like a better engineered idea.

Photos of my valve installation solder job and the new drain are attached. Believe it or not, at work, I am mil-spec certified to solder on government electronics, but this copper pipe sweating is a whole new ball game. It's been a couple days since I soldered it in, and no leaks... so hopefully we're good to go.

A lesson learned... don't position your torch such that molten solder can drip into the nozzle. Really screws up the flame. (Luckily I had a second torch, and was eventually able to clean the solder out of the plugged nozzle)

So here are the pics...
Picasa Web Albums - John - Bathroom Update (http://picasaweb.google.com/jscott354/BathroomUpdate#)

Hi John...

Boy am I glad you didn't try to solder pipe into the threads... would NOT have worked. I was under impression that you had MALE threads... not female threads. Guess maybe I should have asked for clarification. Glad you used the male adapters... looks real good. I'm sure you are all set now.

Drain also looks good!

Thanks for pics. And updates.

Let us know if we can help again!

MARK

Yeah, I figured the 'soldering to threads' thing was a mis-communication. Aren't pictures great!

OK... Shower pan is installed (on mortar mix 'mounds'), is right on level and seems quite stable after a 36 hour cure of the mortar. [Note to self: wear safety glasses when mixing mortar]. Oatey No-Caulk drain is seated and tightened (used the string on the wrenching tool, which guaranteed it wouldn't drop in).

Now... as I'm getting ready for the tiling portion of this job... I'd appreciate your thoughts and/or comments on the following:


Since I just happen to have half a roll of 15# building felt, I was going to sheath the walls with that, using silicone to adhere the bottom of the felt to the top flange of the base.

Over the felt goes the hardibacker, 100% coverage on the two water exposed walls and the kneewall (not shown in photo), keeping it about 1/4" off the shower base. The 1/4" gap then gets filled with silicone caulk.

There will be a niche in one wall, which I plan on building out of hardi-backer, taping and mudding the seams with modified thinset.

And finally, I was planning on coating the entire niche area, as well as the corner between the two walls and maybe the bottom 18" or so of all three walls with RedGard to further enhance water resistance. But I'm wondering now if I'm setting myself up for problems by having two vapor barriers (building felt & RedGard) which might trap water in the hardibacker??? Maybe I'm going a bit overboard here, but I really don't want water of any sort inside the wall cavity. (It was a leak through the tile grout and original greenboard that caused a 2X6 stud to swell on one side, bowing the wall out of plumb and cracking several tiles -- and providing this wonderful opportunity for a bathroom remodel!)


For ref: this is the photo (http://picasaweb.google.com/jscott354/BathroomUpdate#5251497227067078754)again, of the shower area.

Thanks to you all in advance!

Hi Jscott...

All sounded great except the double vapor barrier as you suspected.

I would do away with the building felt and then I would cover all the cement board to at least 5-6 feet off the floor. This guarantees that the cement board will never see any moisture/mold... ;)

Don't forget to tape and mud all seams and corners as well.

Lookin' good!

MARK