Have any of you heard the news clip about the blood moons and lunar eclipses in 2015 marking the second coming of Christ, meaning the rapture would have to take place THIS year, THIS month, most probably on Rosh Hashana (feast of the trumpets) My sister in law and her husband, a minister, are really trying to minister to everyone they can because they believe we ARE in the end times. Does anyone have any evidence to the contrary. I am a Christian and know I'm going to heaven, but I am not ready to leave this earth yet... Thanks!

There have been countless groups who have been certain that they have received signs of "the end of times" - yet the end of times has never happened. Where did you hear this news clip?

I am a Christian and know I'm going to heaven, but I am not ready to leave this earth yet....Thanks!
I don't know of anyone who is ready for heaven. If jesus comes now or later, we should still be repenting of our sins. It's an ongoing process, and I'm sure playing a harp in heaven won't prevent you from sinning. Don't look up, look inside yourself.

There are actually several news clips, I found them on YouTube, segments from different pastors such as Glenn Perry (I think that's his name, John Hagee and several others) See, the book of Revelation states that "the moon will turn to blood and the celestial bodies will fall from the sky...." On NASA's website, it reveals that 2 blood moons and 4 lunar eclipses are supposed to all fall on Jewish holidays in the sabbatical year of 2015 which for us would be September 2014 to September 2015. They said it marks the second coming of Christ, which means the end of the tribulation meaning the BEGINNING of the tribulation and the rapture of the church would happen at the end of this month, this year. Also another thing that started to weird me out, was the Sanhedron in Jerusalem reconvening to rebuild the temple of Jerusalem, which in Revelation states will be where the antichrist goes and sits halfway through the tribulation period. The Sanhedron hasn't been around in like 1600 years. Kind of makes you wonder huh?

Post the links to the YouTube clips, I'm sure all here would be interested in such a dire prediction.

YouTube - Rapture - Fall 2008? (Pt 1 of 6) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuJYI6yoefg)

YouTube - Why the Rapture date is called the day that no man knew! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RYq50J38ec)

These are just two of them, there are actually several. And I wanted to correct one of the ministers I named... Glenn Beck not Glenn Perry. Let me know your views on this!

I think it is possible. The ONE thing that Jesus said had to be done before "the end" (obviously of the Church age) was that the Gospel of the Kingdom would be preached in all the world for a witness. That is being accomplished at the present time.

Now we know that there is NO way we can KNOW the day and hour, but we are told to be watchful, and we can recognize the signs of the times.

The idea that is might be possible this year is exciting, but don't lose your equilibrium.

And to those who think we are talking about the END OF THE WORLD, that is not the case. Whenever the rapture occurs, (and it will sometime), there will be plenty of preachers left to tell you that whatever happened, it isn't the rapture, because just look, WE are still here.
(smile!)

Spirit of Truth speaks of the end times and what will take place. Don't be deceived like Eve was by a lie.

II Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

II Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

II Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

II Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

II Thessolonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

II Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

II Thessalonians 2:9-10 Even Him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

After reading all these scriptures, verse by verse, would you be deceived by contradiction offered by a woman who made up this rapture hoax. Can you be deceived in believing you will fly out on some cloud before satan's arrives? OR could satan come and offer to fly you out saying he is he that has come to save you? Our Father says His children will be destroyed by lack of knowledge. Lack of knowledge in Truth..

Ezekiel 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make [them] fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, [even] the souls that ye hunt to make [them] fly.

Paul told us this: Galations 1:10-12 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Call upon Christ for the answer.. He will reveal the Truth. AND Hear HIM

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
(KJV)

1 Cor 15:51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(KJV)

1Thes 4:14-18
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
(KJV)

Here the Apostle Paul tells us to comfort one another with these words. There is NO comfort in the thought that we will be forced to go through the Great Tribulation.

.

Here the Apostle Paul tells us to comfort one another with these words. There is NO comfort in the thought that we will be forced to go through the Great Tribulation.


Why?.. A Child of God has no fear

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Follow and Hear .. Example

Deu 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, He [it is] that doth go with thee; He will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

Why?.. A Child of God has no fear

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Follow and Hear .. Example

Deu 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, He [it is] that doth go with thee; He will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

Of course this is true. It doesn't address the Scripture I posted though.

Only Those Without the Seal of God

Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Length of Time for satan's deception on earth

Revelation 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

God's Children are Present at this Time still on Earth

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Warning to Take Note: Because Christ does not want you to be deceived like Eve. Satan as a man [666] will come falsely claiming to be Christ. That's why he will be called anti-christ.

Matthew 24: 25 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.


1 Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for [the trumpet shall sound], and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Cr 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.
1 Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Follow scripture to the Last Trump.. The last sound.. the last seal

Revelation 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of Him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

Christ Returns Seven Seal.. seventh sound

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [The Kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.

I believe you are missing some things. I won't post all the references here (unless you want them). John is called up into Heaven, and he sees 24 elders at the Throne. Read their song. I believe this is the song of the redeemed up through the rapture. The Gospel will be preached all through the Great Tribulation, and the remanant of Israil will accept Jesus as Messiah at that time. They are the saints present that Satan persecutes.

Now as to Mt. ch 24: The subject brought up by the Apostles was the Temple. Jesus plainly told them that it would be destroyed in their generation. The phrase that we have to deal with is the degree of tribulation spoken of by Jesus. If you read what Josephus recorded about the destruction of Jerusalem, it is hard to imagine a time of horror that would surpass that. Will the Great Tribulation be more horrific than what happened to the inhabitants of Jerusalem? I can't say for sure, but the prophecy of the destruction has been fulfilled once, and I am not sure that I believe every prophecy has to have more than one fulfillment

John is called up into Heaven, and he sees 24 elders at the Throne.

Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

John was shown the future of the Lord's Day

Revealtion 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

Each trumpet is sufficient to sound and seal to the last trump.

REVELATION SCOPE. The key to unlock the meaning and scope of the book is found in 1:10. "The Lord's day" = THE DAY OF THE LORD (Jehovah). (See Isa. 2:12) John was not in "a state of spiritual exaltation" on any particular Sunday at Patmos, as the result of which "he saw visions and dreamed dreams". But as we are told, "I came to be (or found myself) by the Spirit in the day of the Lord" (cp. Ezek. 1:1; 8:3, &c.). He is then shown, and both sees and hears (22:8), the things he records.

"The day of the Lord" being yet future, it follows that the whole book must concern the things belonging to "that day", and consequently is wholly prophecy. Though partial adumbrations of judgment may be traced in connection with affairs of past history, yet the significant, solemn warning here (1:10) that the "judgments" in Revelation relate to the day of the Lord, "the day of vengeance" (cp. Isa. 61:2; 63:4, &c.), makes it clear that the book concerns the future, and the day of the unveiling (the Apocalypse) of the great "King of kings and Lord of lords"

Why do you say the seals and trumpets are the same? The Day of the Lord is a day of wrath and judgment. We, as Christians are not appointed to wrath.
1Thes 5:9
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
(KJV)

The saints persecuted by Satan during the Great Tribulation are Israel. She will accept Jesus as her Messiah during that period.
Certainly, everything in the Book of Revelation (after the churches of Asia) is prophecy. (Incidentally, that fact disproves the Catholic interpretation of the sun-clothed woman as being Mary.) If the Apostle Paul was not describing the rapture, then what was he talking about? He even expected himself to be alive (he said "we" who remain).
II Th 2:7
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
(KJV)

In this verse, who or what will be taken out of the way? Is "he" taken out so that Antichrist can come into his own? Or is "he" hiding who the Antichrist is and must be taken away so that all can see who Antichrist is? I cannot accept the second possibility, since Satan will not hide Antichrist's identity, and since Satan will not be taken out of the way at this time. That leaves me with the first possibility, that "he" is keeping Antichrist from coming to power. I don't beilive "he" is the Holy Spirit, because, the Holy Spirit is always everywhere. That leaves me with the Church. The Church is always referred to as the Body of Christ, making it "he", and this fits. The presence of the Church prevents Antichrist from coming to power.

II Th 2:7
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
(KJV)

In this verse, who or what will be taken out of the way? Is "he" taken out so that Antichrist can come into his own? Or is "he" hiding who the Antichrist is and must be taken away so that all can see who Antichrist is? I cannot accept the second possiblity, since Satan will not hide Antichrist's identity, and since Satan will not be taken out of the way at this time. That leaves me with the first possibility, that "he" is keeping Antichrist from coming to power. I don't beilive "he" is the Holy Spirit, because, the Holy Spirit is always everywhere. That leaves me with the Church. The Church is always referred to as the Body of Christ, making it "he", and this fits. The presence of the Church prevents Antichrist from coming to power.

So you feel the church saves the world from antichirst?

"he" is him that remains obedient and faithful and not deceived. he that will not have the mark of the beast within his head, but instead has the seal of God. Not at all unlike Eve who once in the beginning had the choice. Does an individual stay within the wings of the eagle for protection and guidance being nourished for the short time that satan is on earth?
This is a free will choice of obedience, and faith. Hearing and yet being fore told is a choice to follow as a child of God.
As to ourselves, the question of "who is in the secret?" does not arise. For we are not to suppose that all who do not know of it are "lost". One thing we know, and that is : it is made known for "the obedience of faith", or for "faith-obedience" (Rom 16.26). It is a subsequent revelation; and the question is, do we believe it and obey it by acting according to it?

Abraham had several Divine revelations made to him. From his call in Gen. 11 he was a "righteous" man. In ch. 12 he believed God concerning His promises of the future. In ch. 13 he believed God concerning the promise of the Land.
But in ch. 15 God made a further revelation concerning the see which He would give him; and it is written, "Abraham believed in the Lord, and it was counted (or imputed) unto him for righteousness". Even so with ourselves and the subsequent revelation of the mystery in the Prison Epistles. Let us believe it, and we may be sure that it will be counted unto us for something, for some blessing, which those who refuse to believe it will lose.

But does it not say in the bible that there are many antichrists?
Who is to say the church hasn't saved us from them-
But when the church is outnumbered by the world they wouldn't be able to-
Isn't it a pre-requisite for the antichrist to come to power before Christ's return?
There will be the battle of Armageddon- Babylon is defeated and Christ returns afterward- I mean that's what I've been reading in Revelation for the past 15 years

But does it not say in the bible that there are many antichrists?
Who is to say the church hasn't saved us from them-
But when the church is outnumbered by the world they wouldn't be able to-
Isn't it a pre-requisite for the antichrist to come to power before Christ's return?
There will be the battle of Armageddon- Babylon is defeated and Christ returns afterward- I mean thats what I've been reading in Revelation for the past 15 years

It does indeed.

2 John 1:6-7 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Note of obedience that follows that warning.

1 John 1:8-9 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.


It is not the church that save anyone... Christ is the Saviour of the World. Listen...

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.


1 John2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

1 John 2:28-29 And now, little children, abide in Him; that, when He shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at his coming. If ye know that He is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of Him.

There are many scripture verses that tell us satan will come first falsely proclaiming to be the Lamb. Revelation 12:12 thr.. Revelation 13:1 thr 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.

If the Apostle Paul was not describing the rapture, then what was he talking about? He even expected himself to be alive (he said "we" who remain).
II Th 2:7
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
(KJV)



The Mystery or Secret

Revelation 14:5 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Matthew 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

Matthew 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? Whence then hath it tares?

Matthew 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Matthew 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

If you teach the rapture, you will take the souls of people from what Christ has told of in parables. Christ is the Saviour, The ONLY SAVIOUR, and He wants His children to hear His voice, not man made religious movements.

I do not know if people will see and hear Truth, only God can reveal what He has elected. Yet I do know if you believe, and call upon Him to answer, He will answer.

A child of God is like Mary, who will stay within the wings of God's protection, hearing and obeying His Will

But does it not say in the bible that there are many antichrists?
Who is to say the church hasn't saved us from them-
But when the church is outnumbered by the world they wouldn't be able to-
Isn't it a pre-requisite for the antichrist to come to power before Christ's return?
There will be the battle of Armageddon- Babylon is defeated and Christ returns afterward- I mean thats what I've been reading in Revelation for the past 15 years

Yes, The Antichrist must come to power before Jesus returns. The rapture is when the resurrected and changed saints are called up to Him in the air, as Paul teaches. There is this scripture too:
Jude 1:14-15
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
(KJV)

How can the Lord bring this multitude of saints WITH Him unless they have previously been called up to Him?

I am convinced that the rapture will be the signal for the final week of Daniel's prophecy to start. At that time, everyone will have a God given time table of events.

I believe there has been much misunderstanding about the teaching of the tares. I believe Jesus taught about things up to the very end, when He will turn all things back to the Father. I believe the parable of the tares is a Milleninum prophecy. The Kingdom of Jesus Christ will be world wide, BUT the requirements for salvation will be the same as it is now, faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ. Not everyone in the Kingdom will be saved. They will live right, because there will be no way to escape punishment for crime. But there will come that time when Satan is loosed "for a little season" and then there will be the final rebellion, and the binding of the tares to be burned.

Do you think Mary is the sun clothed woman in chapter 12? Why or why not?

Jude 1:14-15
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
(KJV)

How can the Lord bring this multitude of saints WITH Him unless they have previously been called up to Him?



These saints are refer: as the holy ones (angels)

Deuteronomy 33:2 And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

Psalms 68:17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord [is] among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.

Other refer as to what the angels do in scripture.. each leads to Jude1:14 saints Acts 7:53 Gal 3:19 Hab 2:2

Do you think Mary is the sun clothed woman in chapter 12? Why or why not?

No it is not Mary.. Chapter 12 of Revelation offers the longest period of time written in one chapter then any other chapter of the bible. It is what I would call an[ inserted ] refer that God has done to help us understand the beginning first age through the present age of salvation.

Revelation 21:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

1. The great wonder in heaven is a "sign"
2. The woman is (mother Israel) or a "believer"
3. The sun, moon, star, is the zodiac that will offer signs to the believer (signs foretold of in Genesis)

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

The believer being born here on earth of woman

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

1. another sign
2. a red dragon is a deceiver, satan
3. again with signs when satan

Understand on earth there is "Good" and "bad" and that is a signs offered from heaven.

________________________________________

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Understand on earth there is Good and bad.. and watch for signs foretold of in scripture.

Jeremiah 24:2 One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad.

Leaving people to have Free Will .. Choice .. As children of God in obedience or as bad in evil

1Thes 4:17-18
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
(KJV)

I posted this before, but I don't think you addressed it. If believers are here through the Great Tribulation until Jesus sets His foot on Mt Olivet, then why would they be caught up in the air? Do you believe in the rapture at any time? Pre trib, mid trib or post trib?

1Thes 4:17-18
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
(KJV)

I posted this before, but I don't think you addressed it. If believers are here through the Great Tribulation until Jesus sets His foot on Mt Olivet, then why would they be caught up in the air? Do you believe in the rapture at any time? Pre trib, mid trib or post trib?

Spirit of Truth will be in all scripture ... No I do not follow man's teaching known of the rapture, because that teaching contradicts scripture.

This, the second heaven and earth age will pass away, but the Word of God never changes. That is why studying God's Word is never a waste of time.

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

These things are going to happen. Don't let the cares of this world cause these events to slip up on you.

Luke 21:35-36 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Sorry, but you are ignoring this scripture, apparently because it doesn't fit with your theology. If we are to continue this discussion further, you must address this passage.

1Thes 4:17-18
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
(KJV)

If not, then there is no point in me posting anything more here.

Sorry, but you are ignoring this scripture, apparently because it doesn't fit with your theology. If we are to continue this discussion further, you must address this passage.

1Thes 4:17-18
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
(KJV)

If not, then there is no point in me posting anything more here.

Excuse me, I did not know you had wanted me to explain this..

"Sleep in Jesus" is an expression not found/elsewhere..1 Cr 15:18
"dead in Christ" are spoken as with what can compare. Romans 8:10

prevent.. We will not stand in the way..

1 Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Trump .. Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1 Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Note: Matthew 24:29-30 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

caught up .. 2Cr 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Spiritual realm must be recognized and gathered (as all return to heaven once dead of this world to raise as Christ had raised)

1 Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

To meet.. Matthew 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.


1 Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

I hope this helped.

Well, if I understand you rightly, you do expect for believers to be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. So how do you see the sequence of events? Prophecy in general and Revelation in particular is not always easy to find the chronological order. Revelation is a series of different visions, all eventually pointing to the return of Jesus as King.

You pointed out the harvest of the "vine of the earth" cast into the winepress. This is the second harvest shown in Revelation. The visions carry through to after the Millennium, and the descent of New Jerusalem, so there are several events spaced over a lengthy period which must be carefully discerned or we will be confused.

I believe the next major event on God's calendar is the calling out of the Church. The Church age ends and the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy begins. After that, there is a timetable for everything up to the beginning of the Millennium.

Well, if I understand you rightly, you do expect for believers to be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. So how do you see the sequence of events? Prophecy in general and Revelation in particular is not always easy to find the chronological order. Revelation is a series of different visions, all eventually pointing to the return of Jesus as King.

You pointed out the harvest of the "vine of the earth" cast into the winepress. This is the second harvest shown in Revelation. The visions carry through to after the Millennium, and the descent of New Jerusalem, so there are several events spaced over a lengthy period of time which must be carefully discerned or we will be confused.

I believe the next major event on God's calendar is the calling out of the Church. The Church age ends and the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy begins. After that, there is a timetable for everything up to the beginning of the Millennium.

The sequence of events I believe has always shown great love from God to His children. Hearing His message and obedience to the Father's Will is necessary for the child of God. However, the chronological order to the book of Revelation is not done, so yes it does take some depth in study, and prayer in revealing. Yet each time I read it I have found more and more order in mind.

Obedience and Watch

2 Timothy 2: 4-5 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

Satan will come first with powers to deceive as Revelation 13 tells us. When you see how people today look to follow anyone to bring new hope, I feel most will be easily deceive by a man(666) who will come as the angel of light. This is why Christ has foretold us not to marvel concerning this 2 Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

The scripture that have been previously posted, I feel clearly shows the path to follow.
Luke 12:37-38 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

For if you watch satan can't successLuke 12:39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.


The Millennium will be the 1000 year period after the 2nd advent when the elect will teach without the deception of satan and his followers.Revelation 20:1-3 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Time between the first ressurection (Revelation 20:6) when those who were found without the mark of the beast, shown victory over satan and his deception. These are the elect who will reign with Christ teaching. Blessed is he who takes part in the first resurrection, on such death hath no power.

After that thousand year then satan will again be loosed out of prison to deceive the nation. Revelation 20:8.

Of course satan is doomed as are any who follow him. Revelation 20:10

Followed with judgementReveleation 20:11


Well, if I understand you rightly, you do expect for believers to be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

I would call caught up together as clearly meaning we change to a spiritual realm no longer needing the flesh body, and joining all in heaven with Christ. I realize most people fear the thought of their flesh body being back to dust, but we do not use the flesh body in the Kingdom of Heaven which is a spiritual realm./air/sky
Do you view the difference?

The Bible says no man knows the day or the hour.
Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
The Bible says Jesus will return when no one is expecting it.
Matthew 24:43-44
43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
The return of the Lord for the church is imminent (could take place at any time).
1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
Therefore we need to live our lives as if the Lord were returning tonight.

Sndbay, we do not have much disagreement. Mainly on 2 points, when the believers are caught up to meet Jesus and maybe about what kind of bodies we will have. The glorified body is not less material than our earthly body, but will not be subject to earthly limitations. When John saw Jesus on Patmos, he saw a body, not a spirit.

Sndbay, we do not have much disagreement. Mainly on 2 points, when the believers are caught up to meet Jesus and maybe about what kind of bodies we will have. The glorified body is not less material than our earthly body, but will not be subject to earthly limitations. When John saw Jesus on Patmos, he saw a body, not a spirit.

Praise God for that..

The answer to both are in scripture... review "caught up" .. I view these scripture to give the description of caught up and it's meaning.

2Cr 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

In my heart and mind, an individual only needs to realize the reality of 2 realms of existence.
1. Kingdom of Heaven
2. Earth..

1Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Meaning (Nothing more then gathering the sheep into the realm of The Kingdom with Christ in Heaven) To Seize

_____________________________________________



When John saw Jesus on Patmos, he saw a body, not a spirit.

>>>>?
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
(John was in the spirit)Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

Here on earth we are of flesh...

God determined that man's body would return to dust in Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Upon the death of any flesh body here on earth returning to dust, thus the spirit/soul returns to God in heaven.
2 Corinthians 5: 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Ecc 12:6-7 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

ashley0716,
I believe that it will be a long time before the second coming of Jesus.
One reason is that the bible tells us that He will come when we least expect it.
Right now more people expect it than ever before simply because so many ministers and millions of books are proclaiming it.
Secondly the prophesy that the third temple will be built on Temple Mount before the Messiah returns.
Yes funds are being collected now to rebuild it but the Muslims now control the temple mount and they are not about to let the temple of Yahweh to be built there.
Even after construction gets started it would be years before the temple is completed.
I'll start to believe the return to be much nearer when construction of the temple gets underway.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

ashley0716,
I believe that it will be a long time before the second coming of Jesus.
One reason is that the bible tells us that He will come when we least expect it.
Right now more people expect it than ever before simpley because so many ministers and millions of books are proclaiming it.
Secondly the prophesy that the third temple will be built on Temple Mount before the Messiah returns.
Yes funds are being collected now to rebuild it but the Muslims now control the temple mount and they are not about to let the temple of Yahweh to be built there.
Even after construction gets started it would be years before the temple is completed.
I'll start to believe the return to be much nearer when construction of the temple gets underway.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

Fred this thread concerning rapture was discouraged after scripture had proven it to be false teaching. Through each posting it has been determined that we are told to be watchman. The second coming of Christ is after satan comes first to deceive us fore told by Jesus, Himself in II Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Ezekiel 3: 17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.

What you have offered as your choice concerning The Lord's Day should be under a different thread. And if somehow a temple is being built before Christ returns, I suspect it is being built for satan, the son of perdition. Satan will stand proclaiming to be the Lamb with great power and signs
II Thessalonians 2:9 [Even Him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the [abomination of desolation], spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the [abomination of desolation,] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

This showing one day that some people did not believe in truth of scripture as the Word of God.

Remember: Truth... Watch

Mark 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
Mark 13:34 [For the Son of man is] as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

Mark 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

sndbay,
Yes watch and pray is necessary.
But also keep in mind that there will be JUST one return of the Messiah and it will be when the world LEAST expects it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay,
Yes watch and pray is necessary.
But also keep in mind that there will be JUST one return of the Messiah and it will be when the world LEAST expects it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

My take on that is this. Does ANYONE expect Jesus to return TODAY?? I think not.
Where I think I disagree with Sndbay is that I believe Jesus will CALL His Church out without ever touching Earth. Then He will actually RETURN to Mt Olivet at the end of the Great Tribulation, (Day of the Lord). That clears up some seeming contridictions in what Paul wrote to the Thessalonians.

Galveston1,
I believe that Christ's return will be as the bible says; that is that the whole world will see it.
Modern day TV will cover the event.
Keep watch on the news channels after the new temple is built and the shofar of God is blown as is done on the day of atonement.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

My take on that is this. Does ANYONE expect Jesus to return TODAY??? I think not.
Where I think I disagree with Sndbay is that I believe Jesus will CALL His Church out without ever touching Earth. Then He will actually RETURN to Mt Olivet at the end of the Great Tribulation, (Day of the Lord). That clears up some seeming contridictions in what Paul wrote to the Thessalonians.


"The Lord's Day"

Continue to listen and watch... Note: 2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

___________________________________

Revelation 20:2-3 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

sndbay ,
I eagerly await the time when Satan will be bound in hell and no longer can tempt us.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay ,
I eagerly await the time when Satan will be bound in hell and no longer can tempt us.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

As do I, Fred.. It is so important that we listen this time and believe in what the Word offers as Our Father Truth to His children. We will be that servant, a servant in putting satan down, and being overcomes from the deception. Mark 13:34 [For the Son of man is] as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to His servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

The Word is Christ, and in Him who is the sign of the sun as foretold in scripture.

sndbay,
Since the second coming is a long way into the future I think that there are few, if any, alive today who will see it happen.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay,
Since the second coming is a long way into the future I think that there are few, if any, alive today who will see it happen.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred a man's heart can not offer truth by what you have said, because the truth speaks of no man knowing when "That Day" will come.

Deu4:39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD He is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

Matthew 24:35-36 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My Words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

And know also that you have spoken of a temple being built. Tell me where it is written that this is needed? Who was it that asked that this temple being built? For God has made it clear in scripture Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The example of a temple being built by hands was destroyed, and the only other temple on earth was brought to us by God.
Mark 14:58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

Please speak to me Words of Spiritual Truth, as in love to all mankind is comforted.

sndbay,
Perhaps you did not see ot but that is what I said.
Scripture tells us that Christ will return when we least expect it.
More people expect the return to be in the near future now than ever before.
All of the prophesies have yet to be fulfilled.
That is why I believe the parousia will be still quite a ways into the future.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay,
Perhaps you did not see ot but that is what I said.
Scripture tells us that Christ will return when we least expect it.
More people expect the return to be in the near future now than ever before.
All of the prophesies have yet to be fulfilled.
That is why I believe the parousia will be still quite a ways into the future.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred, I love The Word of God, I believe in the Spiritual Truth from Our Father.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

I was replying to your perious post
Since the second coming is a long way into the future I think that there are few, if any, alive today who will see it happen. I would darn not suggest what you have suggested, for it is NOT Our Father's truth. (Matthew 24:35-36)

I do understand that the Day of the Lord is spoken of in several scriptures. II Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. & II Peter 3:10

So please understand Fred, for your sake, and all that read these posts, love them enough to tell of Our Fathers Truth. Pray that somehow the seeds planted in Truth will open ears that will hear .. God's Will be done. And scripture speaks of praying that The Day will not come during the winter months or on the sabbath. Matthew 24:20 Mark 13:18

I believe in the literal return of Jesus Christ ( Zec 14:4 Act 1:9-14 ) when He shall take the throne of David ( Isaiah 9:6-7 Luke 1:32-33) and rule on earth for the prophetic thousand years known as the millenium ( Revelation 20:4; Zec 14:9 ).

However satan will come first II Thessalonians 2:9

sndbay ,
I stand by the truth of the bible. OK?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay ,
I stand by the truth of the bible. OK?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

It does show your obedience to Our Father.. and permits a garment of righteousness without shame according to what is written.

Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

sndbay,
I don't understand what you are saying.
I do my best to obey God.
How can you suggest that I do not?
Fred.

sndbay,
I don't understand what you are saying.
I do my best to obey God.
How can you suggest that I do not?
Fred.

Fred: I refer the quote I had posted, and it says you do obey.. Posted #47
It does show your obedience to Our Father.. and permits a garment of righteousness without shame according to what is written.

sndbay.
Thanks for the clarification.
Fred

WE are SOOO in the end times it ain't even funny. Now how did I know my good friend Acura doesn't think it is even close and my other good friend Sndbay wouldn't believe in the rapture.. hee hee.

I'm telling you guys... when we sit at the wedding feast supper... you two guys best sit far away from me.. because I'm going to throw food at you and scream... I was right.. I was right.. you were wrong.. nanna nanna boo boo. ( hey, no one has ever accused me of maturity) ha

Acura, What prophecy needs to be fulfilled before the rapture takes place? Or wait.. do you believe in the rapture?

Have any of you heard the news clip about the blood moons and lunar eclipses in 2015 marking the second coming of Christ, meaning the rapture would have to take place THIS year, THIS month, most probably on Rosh Hashana (feast of the trumpets) My sister in law and her husband, a minister, are really trying to minister to everyone they can because they believe we ARE in the end times. Does anyone have any evidence to the contrary. I am a Christian and know I'm going to heaven, but I am not ready to leave this earth yet....Thanks!

I absolutely believe we are in the end times! Everything points to it. You know, before May 14, 1948 there was no Israel for almost 2000 years. Pretty amazing. You can't have end times without Israel... the Lord spoke the parable of the fig tree ( the fig tree represents Israel:

Mathew 24:32-34 Now learn the parable of the fig tree; when his branch is yet tender and putteth forth leaves yeknow that summer is nigh: so likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you THIS generation shall not pass, till al these things be fulfilled.

Well that fig tree became a nation after 2000 years of not existing.. that in and of itself is a miracle... he says when you see it bloom you know summer is near... so it is like my coming it will be near EVEN AT THE DOOR and he goes on to say that this generation wouldn't pass until this was fulfilled. WOW. You bet he is near... and I'm going to say this.. there isn't anything here other than loved ones that I care enough about... I want to see people saved but I say... even so come Lord Jesus.

classyT ,
I believe we are in the end of times but NOT the rapture which is bogus theology.
The bible says Jesus is coming back soon. (That's in God's time not ours)
It is much sooner now than it was 2000 years ago.
I have given my reasons I think that the second coming is still 50 or more years into the future.
To many people expect it for it to happen now.
And I did mention the prophesies such as the third temple must be built on temple mount before Jesus returns.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Arcura,
Oh yes, I agree but that takes place after the rapture... not bogus my friend... nope it will happen!

ClasyyT.
Mope, sorry.
There will be no rapture as said by LaHaye in his books.
It is bogus theology.
You'll see that.
Jesus returns but once.
Fred

Arcura,

k. ;) no argument... sometimes even I get sidk of it.. ha! :)

P.S. you are wrong.

clasyyT.
Mope, sorry.
There will be no rapture as said by LaHaye in his books.
It is bogus theology.
You'll see that.
Jesus returns but once.
Fred

Fred sometimes you can only hope and pray that some will hear the voice of God. Each should read this thread from the beginning and refer all that has been posted to prove the false teaching concerning the rapture.

God's Peace to you Fred

SNDBAY,

You know.. you sound a little weary there. Are you?

This is going to shock the puddin out of you but I reckon I will say it anyway... ever considered your TRUTH was WRONG? I mean... geesh. Greater minds than mine think there will be a litteral rapture. Starting with the Apostle Paul!!

You and Arcura don't have the market cornered here on "truth". I personally believe you are wrong... on many subjects. I'm sorry but that statement you wrote just hit me the wrong way I guess.

So in closing I will say this... I hope and pray that some will actually pick up the word and read if for themselves to decide if the rapture is bogus or not.

Suggest starting with post # 8 with what the word has said
II Thessalonians 2:3-9 where is says Let no man deceive you

And also let's read what Paul says about knowledge of men..

Galations 1:10-12 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Speical note : Ezekiel 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make [them] fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, [even] the souls that ye hunt to make [them] fly.

Well then I rest my case.. because if you read what I said you will notice I said the rapture teaching started with... who? THE APOSTLE PAUL.

I don't get your special note. I am not trying to be rude. I know the word sndbay.. not only do I know it.. I rightly divide AND understand it. But this last verse you wrote... seems RANDOM. (Please.. no one could tie that verse in to our conversation.) So if you are going to throw special notes in there.. with random verses... I got to let you know up front... you got me beat.you are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay deeper in the word than I am. So you may want to explain it like I am a two year old because... it ain't clickin..

Snfbay,
I believe what the bible says.
There will be but one return of Christ.
No secret return. No rapture.
The bible is right.
Rapture supports are in error.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I believe you are RIGHT... Acura! He ain't going to come back to earth but ONE more time. The rapture isn't the return of Christ.. it is US meeting him in the air! WHOO HOO! ( I get a new body... and I am going to look FAB!)

NOT that I don't already look darn good now. HA! Oh come on! You got to have a personailty in there somewheres.

I'm not sure which person wanted to know why the temple had to be built before the end of the tribulation, but the Bible states that halfway through (3 1/2 years) the tribulation, the antichrist will go sit in the temple, making claims to be THE Christ. Right now there is no temple but a year ago, the Sanhedron (the 71 rabbi's) reconvened to lay out plans and gather materials for the rebuilding of the Temple of Jerusalem. I'm not sure which book I read it in.

Ash,

I wasn't me. Yes that is very true. Amazing don't you think that Israel wasn't even in exsistance for nearly 2000 years and then... BOOM May 14, 1948 it is back. What a miracle.. oh yes we are in the end times! No way around it.

classyT,
The air and the clouds ARE part of what makes up this earth.
There will be no rapture as described in the last days books.
It will be many years before the temple is rebuilt.
The Muslims are now in control of Temple Mount and they are not about to relinquish it back to the original owners and time soon.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Ahhh! But how quickly things change.. what do you think of this.. European Union Commission Chief and the French President are meeting with President Bush this weekend. What is wild is that the EU leaders have issued French President, Nicolas Sarkozy, a mandate to press for a financial overhaul. And, (hold on to your seat), Europe wants to present a Blueprint for a new Worldwide Currency System!

Pretty interesting my friend... if you know anything about end times at all! ( years away... I think NOT!) remember Israel wasn't even a nation for 2000 years then boom May 14, 1948 and low and behold we got Israel back on the map.

Muslim temple? Please... IS ANYTHING TO HARD FOR THE LORD?

classyT,
If the construction of the third temple was to begin next year it would take several years for it to be built.
The coming tribulations would slow that down considerably.
Who knows how long the tribulations will take.
WWI and WWII took from 1814 to 1949.
So as I figure the second coming is not in my moral life time. I'm 75 years old.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Hmm? Well the tribulation will take 7 years according to Daniel and Revelation. Why do you think it would take several years to build the temple?

"The Word"

Revelation 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

Sndbay,

That is describing those that or stung by what looked to be a scorpion ( John the Revelator had only things he understood back in the first century to compare it to. ) That has NOTHING and I mean NOTHING with how long the tribulation is going to be.

Take note of the WOE WOE WOE because you can follow each in scripture.

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound.

The First WOE

Revelation 9:12 One woe is past; [and], behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

snfbay,
I believe what the bible says.
There will be but one return of Christ.
No secret return. No rapture.
The bible is right.
Rapture supports are in error.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred, agree there is no such Rapture in "The Word".. Man came up with the doctrine.

Rapture came from a child's visions, Margaret McDonald born in 1815 who lived in Port Glasgow, Scotland during the beginning years of the Dispensationalism movement under John Nelson Darby. McDonald was fifteen years old in 1830 when she claimed to be a "prophetess." She would often go into trances and record visions of the end of the world. Not much is known about Margaret McDonald the individual, but some have attempted to prove she perhaps had an influence on the early development of Dispensationalism.

classyT
Check out how long it took to build it way back then
AND what the construction rules were.
Cedars from Lebanon and no iron tools, etc, are a part of it all.
Just gathering all the materials and building the icons demanded would take quite awhile.
Even today with our technology I think it would take 15 to 25 years to rebuild the temple completely.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

SNDBAY,

YOU ERR! If you knew ANYTHING at all about JOHN NELSON DARBY you would know that he wouldn't endorse anyone that claimed to be a prophetess!! According to the Apostle PAUL, everything I need to know about the word of God is IN the Word of God. John Darby didn't go for modern day prophets. I grew up under his teachings.

He wrote about the rapture because it is IN THE WORD. I believe the first century church understood the concept that Paul wrote about in Thesssalonians. AND YES, oh YES, there WILL be a rapture!!

But really arguing over this is foolish. And Paul warns us not to argue the Word. So I won't. BUT I COULD!! See I can actually USE MY OWN words to explain verses. I don't just quote scripture randomly. Sorry... :(

OK, I can feel another RANDOM verse coming. Go for it!. but PLEASE PLEASE explain why you post it. ( in regular english, talk like I am TWO... it is easy... try it, you'll like it) :) Unless of course you can't which lately, I am starting to realize is the problem.

Arcura,

From the things that I have read and heard, the orthodoxed Jews have been gathering the materials for years... just fyi.

SNDBAY,

YOU ERR! If you knew ANYTHING at all about JOHN NELSON DARBY you would know that he wouldn't endorse anyone that claimed to be a prophetess!!! According to the Apostle PAUL, everything i need to know about the word of God is IN the Word of God. John Darby didn't go for modern day prophets. I grew up under his teachings.

He wrote about the rapture because it is IN THE WORD. I believe the first century church understood the concept that Paul wrote about in Thesssalonians. AND YES, oh YES, there WILL be a rapture!!!

But really arguing over this is foolish. And Paul warns us not to argue the Word. So I won't. BUT I COULD!!!! see I can actually USE MY OWN words to explain verses. I don't just quote scripture randomly. sorry ....:(

OK, I can feel another RANDOM verse coming. Go for it!!..but PLEASE PLEASE explain why you post it. ( in regular english, talk like i am TWO.....it is easy...try it, you'll like it) :) Unless of course you can't which lately, i am starting to realize is the problem.

Margaret MacDonald reportedly had a PROPHETIC END-TIME VISION which gained credibility and spread

Margaret McDonald said the rapture would only take those that were filled with the Holy Spirit; and Norton claimed that only those that had been sealed with the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands would be raptured. Definitely confusion ensued.

Scripture tells us "God is not the author of confusion" (I Cor. 14:33).

NO RAPTURE, JUST MUCH TRIBULATION

Was Job raptured out of his time of tribulation (testing)? NO
Was Joseph raptured out of the pit or prison? NO
Was Daniel raptured out of the lion's den? NO
Was King David raptured out of all his tribulation? NO
Exodus 7:18 through 12:30 records the Israelites were IN Egypt for all ten plagues of God's wrath.
Was Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego raptured out of the firery furnace? NO
Was Jesus or any of the Apostles raptured out of their persecution? NO
Was Paul raptured out of all his tribulations (2 Corithians 11:23-27)? NO

LOL SND<

Was JOB part of the Church? NO and by the way, there will be no tribulation like this. There have been hard trials in many lives... but see the difference here... GOD IS POURING OUT HIS WRATH UPON THE EARTH! Not just a little trial. And NO, we are His BRIDE... we aren't going through it.

FYI... if it an't in the word.. I don't care what some prophetess said. John Darby didn't get the info from HER.. he got it from Paul!

How could Jesus be raptured? Get real. Why would he be? He was sent to die. Paul called his afflictions "light". They weren't of course but it wasn't GOD'S WRATH. Wow! Don't you understand the difference? Let me put some light on this for you... those millions of Jews that were killed in the holocaust?. well that is going to seem like a Sunday school picnic compared to what is going to happen. The WRATH will be poured out on ALL those who have rejected Jesus... and that isn't me.

classyT,
Bleive me and the boble please.
There will be no Rapture as it is being taught.
But if not wait and see that it will not happen.
There will be just one return of Christ.
Read the book "The Rapture Trap".
It and other books on that subject disprove the rapture.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Arcura,

Can't believe you.. I believe the BIBLE. But you are right.. no since in arguing about it.. we will find out.


By the way... who wrote "the rapture trap'?

And while I have your ear? Do you eat Pork. I know you are cathoic... I think they can eat it. Am I right.

classyT ,
Dr Paul Thigpen wrote "The Rapture Trap"
Yes Catholics can eat pork.
Jesus said what goes into the mouth is not unclean but what come out often is.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Oooh... well SND will disagree with that pork eating stuff. ( get him SND... hee hee.. ahh don't worry Acura she likes you, I get on her last nerve!) I will check out the book.. ONLY because you recommended it and to prove I am NOT as stubborn as I appear... (lol).

Hey, jesus did say that didn't he..?. very true!

We agreed again.

Paul examples to us that his teaching of Christ "THE WORD" was not of man's wisdom. And your faith should not stand in wisdom of men.

I Corinthians2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Christ was raise to heaven by the power of God.

The Bible clearly states that there will be 7 years of tribulation, and it breaks it down for us: three and a half years will be peace and prosperity, the antichrist will be successful in bringing all the nations together, and, as ClassyT said, using a worldwide economic system, this is where the mark of the beast comes in. It has to do with the economy and the mark will be necessary to buy and sell and basically to survive. After the first three and a half years, the antichrist will reveal his "true" colors and the world will suffer all of God's wrath. The controversy among most Christians is WHEN the rapture will occur, BEFORE the tribulation or MID tribulation? The one thing the Lord cautions us of though is that if any Christian is here on earth when the mark of the beast comes into play, to NOT TAKE THE MARK, it is irreversible damnation to hell, but he who denies the mark, upon death will be granted eternal life. Now, the Bible never does come out and specifically use the word "rapture" but there are many many clues to ease our Christian hearts that God will save us from the turmoil that is to come to earth. After the 7 year tribulation, those that survived it and did not take the mark, will be the ones to procreate the earth again during God's thousand year here on earth, which is going to be as God originally designed it, before Adam and Eve chose to sin, pure perfection.

SND,

Well, I do occasionally pick up a book a brother in the Lord has written. That doesn't mean that I believe every word in it, nor would I treat it as the WORD of God. It isn't a sin to read someone else's thoughts on scripture. I actually enjoy doing that from time to time. Course getting YOUR thoughts on a scripture is like pulling teeth. I so enjoyed your last scripture quote to Fred.. about Hypocrites... LOL. :) I'm sure I have no idea what you meant by THAT one. ;)

Ash,

I totally agree with you. I believe in pre-trib rapture obviously... what do you think?

1 Cor 15:51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(KJV)

1Thes 4:15-18
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
(KJV)

The above verses describe the rapture.


II Th 2:1-4
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)

These verses would seem to contridict the previous ones UNTIL you understand that the Day Of the LORD is the day of His judgment, i.e. the Great Tribulation.
The "falling away" we are seeing right now. A generation ago, nearly everyone believed in God, whether they were saved or not. Now men openly blaspheme Him.
The "man of sin" will be revealed AFTER the rapture and BEFORE the GREAT TRIBULATION.


Jude 1:14-15
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
(KJV)

This cleary shows that Jesus will bring His saints WITH Him when he comes back to judge the world.
SND believes these are angels, but look at this.

Rev 13:7
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
(KJV)

These saints are plainly on the earth. These are saved people, mostly Jewish who are saved AFTER the rapture. So if these humans are saints, how can you say that the saints that return with Jesus are angels?

Now for Fred's objections.

1Thes 5:3-5
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
(KJV)

Christ's return will take the world by surprise, as a thief in the night, but it will NOT take the Christians by surprise. The Holy Spirit warns us, and we are now feeling the warning!

ClassyT, I know a lot of people who even believe in a POST trib rapture. Now I agree that a mid trib rapture is possible, but the rapture is supposed to occur at a time when NO ONE expects and if the whole world gets to experience 3 1/2 years of peace and prosperity, won't we know what's to come? And as far as the post trib rapture, God promises to spare us from the hell on earth that is about to occur, so I believe in the pre trib rapture.

These verses would seem to contridict the previous ones UNTIL you understand that the Day Of the LORD is the day of His judgment, ie, the Great Tribulation.
The "falling away" we are seeing right now. A generation ago, nearly everyone believed in God, whether they were saved or not. Now men openly blaspheme Him.
The "man of sin" will be revealed AFTER the rapture and BEFORE the GREAT TRIBULATION.




WATCH

Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the [abomination of desolation], spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, let him that readeth understand, then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Mark 13:17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mark13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
Matthew 24:21 Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


Tribulation First:read of the Woes,here come satan who has access to any without the seal of God in their head. A scorpion can sting and turn the body to mush.

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Revelation 9:2-5 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment [was] as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
Revelation 9:12One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
Read the 2nd and 3r Woe (Revelation 11:14)


Christ Returns The Lord's Day This will be the beginning of the millenium, a thousand year. Those that failed Tribulation, won't reign with Christ during the thousand years, but those who did not receive the mark will reign with Christ here on earth a thousand years.
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years
Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

What's The Lord's Day Equal
2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:2-3 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection

We are changed to a spiritual soul and raised as promised at the Last Trumpet. Those that believed and were baptized, converted as a child of God. Who can say who will be judged to reign during the thousand years with Christ, but I do know who the dead are and they walk in Christ on earth.It says they will not live until after the thousand years. (life after death Heaven)

After the first resurrection and the thousand year reign, and after satan is released for a little time for the final death.Then comes the last trump changed to life everlasting... From dead to life..
1 Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the [B]last trump: for [the trumpet shall sound], and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Cr 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.
1 Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Full Circle..

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [His] resurrection:

ClassyT, I know a lot of people who even believe in a POST trib rapture. Now i agree that a mid trib rapture is possible, but the rapture is supposed to occur at a time when NO ONE expects and if the whole world gets to experience 3 1/2 years of peace and prosperity, won't we know what's to come? And as far as the post trib rapture, God promises to spare us from the hell on earth that is about to occur, so I believe in the pre trib rapture.

Well, I agree with Galveston, the church is not going to be surprised for the rapture... the world will not expect the second coming. The anit-Christ comes on the scene proclaimng Peace and safety, but then we know there will be sudden destruction. It is a 7 year tribulation period. I alsways wonder why people think the Lord calls it tribulation... because it is going to be that is why. It just gets worse the last 3 1/2 years and then that is called the great tribulation.But the first 3 1/2 years is not going to be a picnic. That is how I read it.

This cleary shows that Jesus will bring His saints WITH Him when he comes back to judge the world.
SND believes these are angels, but look at this.

Rev 13:7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
(KJV)

These saints are plainly on the earth. These are saved people, mostly Jewish who are saved AFTER the rapture. So if these humans are saints, how can you say that the saints that return with Jesus are angels?


This is the telling of the attack by satan on the saints from above while they are here on earth after the millinium thousand years, so this is after the first resurrection and is the final wrath of God on satan.

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Please look who you are speak of as him... it is satan who is given to make war with the saints, and yes power was given to him for that time period known after the first resurrection. Satan is the great tribulation even before this single time frame that you are discussing.

Please be aware that Christ has never brought tribulation to the earth.. It is evil that bring tribulation whenever it is spoken of in scripture.

Christ will end satan with the wrath of God in putting an end to evil. (punishment by the accountablility of action) We will have no part in the final stage of satan, because we have been gather to a safe place being feed in the wilderness as spoke of in scripture. (refer Revelation 20:8-10)END of satan

(Refer 13:6 he is satan)

Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

[

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection

[B]We are changed to a spiritual soul and raised as promised at the Last Trumpet. Those that believed and were baptized, converted as a child of God. Who can say who will be judged to reign during the thousand years with Christ, but I do know who the dead are and they walk in Christ on earth.It says they will not live until after the thousand years. (life after death Heaven)

Rev 20:5-6
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
(KJV)

Rev 20:11-15
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(KJV)

You see here that the first resurrection is of the dead in Christ (saved people) and the unsaved are not raised until some time after the Millennium when they will be judged according to their WORKS.
NOTE: Saved people are NOT judged according to their WORKS but according to their FAITH in Jesus Christ. There will bo no saved people in the last resurrection.

I think you have a lot of your facts right, but your sequence of events is incorrect.

I show you this again.

Jude 1:14
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
(KJV)

You have not dealt with this other than to say the saints are angels, which idea I challenge does not square with other scriptures. I say they are redeemed people from all the history of planet Earth who died in faith. The fact that they come with the Lord proves they met Him previous to His return. This makes the rapture have to be either before the great tribulation or during it. I believe scripture shows it to be before.

What difference does it make if you know the exact date that the rapture will happen? Are you going to sin and ask for forgiveness moments before the rapture? If so, you're a sorry excuse for a Christian.

The end is nigh! Yes! The rapture could happen tomorrow. So ask yourself how you lived TODAY. Were you a good Christian? Did you forgive? Did you avoid sinning?

If you are truly saved, then there's no reason to worry about the date. Only sinners worry about the date of the rapture.

What difference does it make if you know the exact date that the rapture will happen? Are you going to sin and ask for forgiveness moments before the rapture? If so, you're a sorry excuse for a Christian.

The end is nigh! Yes! The rapture could happen tomorrow. So ask yourself how you lived TODAY. Were you a good Christian? Did you forgive? Did you avoid sinning?

If you are truly saved, then there's no reason to worry about the date. Only sinners worry about the date of the rapture.

No ONE is worried about the DATE. We are discussing whether it is near. And NOT because we are bad christians but because we are human and it is natural to wonder!!

You see here that the first resurrection is of the dead in Christ (saved people) and the unsaved are not raised until some time after the Millennium when they will be judged according to their WORKS.
NOTE: Saved people are NOT judged according to their WORKS but according to their FAITH in Jesus Christ. There will bo no saved people in the last resurrection.

I think you have a lot of your facts right, but your sequence of events is incorrect.

I show you this again.

Jude 1:14
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
(KJV)

You have not dealt with this other than to say the saints are angels, which idea I challenge does not square with other scriptures. I say they are redeemed people from all the history of planet Earth who died in faith. The fact that they come with the Lord proves they met Him previous to His return. This makes the rapture have to be either before the great tribulation or during it. I believe scripture shows it to be before.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
(KJV)

Enoch is praised in scripture by God for telling truth, and it is that truth you are refer in the scripture above. Enoch is from Cain's family line (Cain noted as the first murder from the beginning/son of the devil John 8:44) This truth he told was well approved by God because it came from Enoch knowing the heritage of his father ... Cain ... satan. (The church of Smyrna is also shown in praise of God for the same that Enoch proclaimed in truth)

Let's take the inserted chapter 12 because it descriptively talks of time frame for good reason.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

First let us acknowledge the zodiac told of as signs in the beginning Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

The woman is (mother Israel / children of God), clothed with the sun (a sign = refer: Revelation 1:16 And He had in His right hand seven stars: and out of His mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and His countenance was as the sun shineth in His strength.

So we have Christ and His countenance strength to cover/protect the believer or the children of God/mother Israel.

Continue with and the moon under her feet, (a sign = Psa 72:7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.)

and upon her head a crown of twelve stars. (a sign = 12 stars and crown are the angels and heaven's gates the royal crown refer: (Revelation 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: )( Psa 91: 11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.)

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

This is Mother Israel/children, the path taken and the birth of new life out of tribulations and sorrow before the delivery as is the pain in natural child birth.So as the life we live here on earth until we are unto God in eternity. (Matthew 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.)

Revelation 12 :3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Watch when satan is cast down upon the earth to stand among the sea of people, the great tribulation begins, the seven heads are the sign of universality of earthy power and falsely shown with the same seven heads, horns and crowns as Christ. Refer: Revelation 13:1 And I (John) stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

The third part of the stars are the fallen angels drawn by satan from heaven to earth, and stood before the children of God to devour or deceive all that is possible before they could be born to be given life everlasting.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and Her child was caught up unto God, and to His throne.

Mother Israel brought forth the Key of David/Christ Jesus that opens the gates of heaven to the children of God .. Christ Jeasus was with God and the Throne .. Signs to WATCH are the Sun, the Moon and the Stars shall fall from heaven. Christ Jesus comes.. "The Lord's Day" refer: (Matthew 24:29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken)

A SIGN: of no sun, moon, and stars, yet Christ comes fast and bright as a flash of lighting . (Matthew 24:27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

( Matthew 24:30-31) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here underlined are those angels that come with Christ to gather the Elect! It will continue by saying they will feed her, meaning that the Elect with the angels will feed the Word of God to the children.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.

Christ gathers God's children as they fled to the wilderness during the seize of satan to lock him up for a thousand years, a point of time known as the millinium teaching( the feeding of the Word) all until.... Satan will be release and cast down from where he is held that thousand year for a short time after (2o3 days)
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

This is why those that are gather and taken to a safe place will not take part in satan seize.. And the Elect that were gather will indeed help as the priests of God and Christ. The feeding of the millinium period for a thousand years.
Revealtion 20:8-10 (the End of Satan)

Judgement is for all that remain after the teaching and after the final release of satan has come to an end. The book is open and all are given white line for the wedding garment that will be attending, and those without garments will be put outside.. I told of this previously on another thread.
Praise to the overcomers, they will sing the sound of Moses and there will be singing song of the Lamb

no ONE is worried about the DATE. We are discussing whether it is near. And NOT because we are bad christians but because we are human and it is natural to wonder!!!!

The discussion of whether it is near is irrelevant. "Near" in the eyes of God could be 200+ years, tomorrow, or in 5 minutes. It's a topic that we aren't even qualified to discuss.

The only relevant question is: Am I ready NOW?

Rusty,

The Lord Jesus discussed it plenty because he wanted us to know.. he gave some signs of the times... he did this because he said we can KNOW that it is near... even at the DOOR.

He gave a parable of the fig tree... (fig tree is Israel) he said consider it.. when it blooms you know that summer is near. Then he goes on to say that the generation that see the leaves on the fig tree would see the second coming.

Hmmm? Since 70 A.D. there was no Israel and then on May 14, 1948 she is on the map. He went on to say that the generation that witness the fig tree would see the second coming. You err in not understanding the signs.

It is important to be ready NOW.. but there is nothing and I mean nothing unbilical abouting discerning the signs of the times... Jesus talked about it himself.

Sorry guys and gals,
I do not believe in the rapture as it is being peddled in the last days books.
So we'll just have to wait and see IF the dead believers in Christ who raise fist will be taken up into the clouds
OR if it is those living at the time of the Secret coming before the real one time only one.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
(KJV)

Enoch is praised in scripture by God for telling truth, and it is that truth you are refer in the scripture above. Enoch is from Cain's family line (Cain noted as the first murder from the beginning/son of the devil John 8:44) This truth he told was well approved by God because it came from Enoch knowing the heritage of his father ... Cain ... satan. (The church of Smyrna is also shown in praise of God for the same that Enoch proclaimed in truth)

[I do believe you are confused here. This Enoch is the prophet, the son of Jared, not Cain.

Gen 5:18-29
18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:
26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
28 And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.
(KJV)]


Let's take the inserted chapter 12 because it descriptively talks of time frame for good reason.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

First let us acknowledge the zodiac told of as signs in the beginning Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

The woman is (mother Israel / children of God), clothed with the sun (a sign = refer: Revelation 1:16 And He had in His right hand seven stars: and out of His mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and His countenance was as the sun shineth in His strength.

So we have Christ and His countenance strength to cover/protect the believer or the children of God/mother Israel.

Continue with and the moon under her feet, (a sign = Psa 72:7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.)

and upon her head a crown of twelve stars. (a sign = 12 stars and crown are the angels and heaven's gates the royal crown refer: (Revelation 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: )( Psa 91: 11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.)

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

This is Mother Israel/children, the path taken and the birth of new life out of tribulations and sorrow before the delivery as is the pain in natural child birth.So as the life we live here on earth until we are unto God in eternity. (Matthew 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.)

Revelation 12 :3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Watch when satan is cast down upon the earth to stand among the sea of people, the great tribulation begins, the seven heads are the sign of universality of earthy power and falsely shown with the same seven heads, horns and crowns as Christ. Refer: Revelation 13:1 And I (John) stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

The third part of the stars are the fallen angels drawn by satan from heaven to earth, and stood before the children of God to devour or deceive all that is possible before they could be born to be given life everlasting.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and Her child was caught up unto God, and to His throne.

Mother Israel brought forth the Key of David/Christ Jesus that opens the gates of heaven to the children of God .. Christ Jeasus was with God and the Throne .. Signs to WATCH are the Sun, the Moon and the Stars shall fall from heaven. Christ Jesus comes.. "The Lord's Day" refer: (Matthew 24:29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken)

[The woman's son is not Jesus. He is symbolic of the 144,000 young Jews who are specially alled out. Here's proof that it is not Jesus.]

[Rev 1:19
19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
(KJV)]

[Rev 4:1
1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
(KJV)]

[Clearly, everything after Rev. 4:1 is future in John's day. Jesus has already been resurrected and has ascended back to the Father.]

A SIGN: of no sun, moon, and stars, yet Christ comes fast and bright as a flash of lighting . (Matthew 24:27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

( Matthew 24:30-31) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here underlined are those angels that come with Christ to gather the Elect! It will continue by saying they will feed her, meaning that the Elect with the angels will feed the Word of God to the children.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.

Christ gathers God's children as they fled to the wilderness during the seize of satan to lock him up for a thousand years, a point of time known as the millinium teaching( the feeding of the Word) all until.... Satan will be release and cast down from where he is held that thousand year for a short time after (2o3 days)
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

This is why those that are gather and taken to a safe place will not take part in satan seize.. And the Elect that were gather will indeed help as the priests of God and Christ. The feeding of the millinium period for a thousand years.
Revealtion 20:8-10 (the End of Satan)

Judgement is for all that remain after the teaching and after the final release of satan has come to an end. The book is open and all are given white line for the wedding garment that will be attending, and those without garments will be put outside.. I told of this previously on another thread.
Praise to the overcomers, they will sing the sound of Moses and there will be singing song of the Lamb

[I believe you are confused. Sorry.
Satan will make war with the Woman and the remnant of her children. All Jewish. This is durning the Great Tribulation.]

Edit: This didn't work like I thought it would. You will have to pick out my responses from SND's comments. Maybe I can bracket them.

Sorry guys and gals,
I do not believe in the rapture as it is being peddled in the last days books.
So we'll just have to wait and see IF the dead believers in Christ who raise fist will be taken up into the clouds
OR if it is those living at the time of the Secret coming before the real one time only one.
Peace and kindness,
Fred


Heb 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
(KJV)

Think about it Fred.

Galveston1,
I have thought about it a lot.
And read a lot about it.
That us why U di not believe in the Rapture as it is being taught in the Last Days books.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Originally Posted by sndbay #95


Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
(KJV)

Enoch is praised in scripture by God for telling truth, and it is that truth you are refer in the scripture above. Enoch is from Cain's family line (Cain noted as the first murder from the beginning/son of the devil John 8:44) This truth he told was well approved by God because it came from Enoch knowing the heritage of his father ... Cain ... satan. (The church of Smyrna is also shown in praise of God for the same that Enoch proclaimed in truth)

Reply and posted by Galveston1 #99


[I do believe you are confused here. This Enoch is the prophet, the son of Jared, not Cain.

Gen 5:18-29
18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:
26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
28 And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.
(KJV)]


There are Two = Enoch

Enoch
1) eldest son of Cain

2) son of Jared and father of Methuselah whom God took home to heaven without dying

Genesis 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Enoch of Jude, does say the seventh from Adam.. and Cain's Enoch hertiage is known to be from satan. This is a differ thread so let's not discuss it here..

Some believe the word caught up means rapture.. I do not agree.. Christ himself was caught up with the Father, and I ask would that mean Christ was raptured? No raptured is not in the bible...
It is a man that came up with the idea from a little girl's dream or vision, and that is all it is, an idea. We are all lacking in wisdom, and no man holds all truth except "ONE" (This too is written)

Another refer for the angels would be Deu 33:2 among all the others

sndbay
I agree that the rapture is NOT in the bible.
It is a man's idea and bogus theology at that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Well, its your privilege to not believe it. But according to scripture, if you are not looking for the return of Jesus, you probably won't go.

You are right about the word "rapture" not being in the Bible. I still say that Paul desribed it.
Neither of you have proved that 1 Thes 4:17 does not come before the great tribulation.

Galveston1
I do look forward to the return of Jesus.
I pray for it to happen soon for I think the world needs Him to do so very much.
The bible says that there will be one return of Christ.
That is what I believe.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Galveston1 as long as you have found the subject in I Thes 4:13 it is your choice to believe in a rapture.

And, I can tell you that Christ did say in Mark 8:15 beware of the leaven. A word of false teaching can sure make things rise up differently.

As for me, I stand by the word as it is written, and feel that Jesus rebuked Peter in Mark 8:33 because he spoke what was in his heart of his own mind, rather then by "The Word" Wanting something because you love the idea better, or because man said it was so is not what The Word tells us to follow.

Mark 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

Jeremiah 33:3

~WATCH

Well, its your privilege to not believe it. But according to scripture, if you are not looking for the return of Jesus, you probably won't go.

You are right about the word "rapture" not being in the Bible. I still say that Paul desribed it.
Neither of you have proved that 1 Thes 4:17 does not come before the great tribulation.

I don't think so Galv, I think every Christian goes whether they believe in a rapture or not... ( I'm not nearly as merciful and kind as God, I'm make them stay just for being so stubborn! OK maybe not the whole time but just enough to scare the puddin out of them. Ha!) But alas, they too will be there.

sndbay,
If there is a rapture as is being taught only the dead will rise first and neet Jesus in the clouds.
Since it is only after people l;east expect it, I will be long dead of body will be delighted to meet Jesus.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay,
If there is a rapture as is being taught only the dead will rise first and neet Jesus in the clouds.
Since it is only after people l;east expect it, I will be long dead of body will be delighted to meet Jesus.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I thought you were a better Bible scholar than to write the first paragraph above.


1Thes 4:15-18
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
(KJV)

Those believers still alive will be caught up WITH the resurrected believers. If you argue with Paul, then I don't know how to convince you.

Rusty,

The Lord Jesus discussed it plenty because he wanted us to know..he gave some signs of the times...he did this because he said we can KNOW that it is near...even at the DOOR.

He gave a parable of the fig tree...(fig tree is Israel) he said consider it..when it blooms you know that summer is near. Then he goes on to say that the generation that see the leaves on the fig tree would see the second coming.

hmmm? since 70 A.D. there was no Israel and then on May 14, 1948 she is on the map. He went on to say that the generation that witness the fig tree would see the second coming. you err in not understanding the signs.

It is important to be ready NOW..but there is nothing and I mean nothing unbilical abouting discerning the signs of the times...Jesus talked about it himself.

No, it's certainly NOT un-biblical. It's just irrelevant.

Jesus routinely offered proof of God's love, and His divinity. He performed miracles. He touched hearts. He was crucified, resurrected, and offered Thomas the opportunity to inspect His wounds. He gave us signs to tell when He would return.

My point is that the date is irrelevant to those people who have faith. Just knowing that it will happen is all that really matters.

sndbay,
If there is a rapture as is being taught only the dead will rise first and neet Jesus in the clouds.


Fred, The idea of "if" does not exist in my mind and heart concerning a rapture, because I take the Word to be a reality, just as God is a reality. Man teaches religion, and The Word speaks of reality as Flesh.

The dead shall rise, would be those baptized are said to be dead in Christ. They will rise in life to eternity, as Christ was raised to live again in eternity. It is thought of dead to being alive living an eternital life, ever lasting.

Note that I Thessalonians 4:13 is where the subject begins to tell us not to be ignorant or in sorrow concerning them asleep or them which have no hope. This is an unintentally unaware of deception and so like unitentally sleep those which have no hope of not being deceived is unintentally. Asleep at the Watch post..

I Thessalonians 4:13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

Note that I Thessonians 4:14 For if we believe (means assuming you do find that true) that Jesus died and rose again, (meaning died a death and rose as became alive again) even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him. (believer in Christ who were deceived such as by false teaching, yet God will save them in Christ)
I Thessonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Note that I Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word, (reality of truth) that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord, (Phl 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.)shall not prevent them which are asleep. ( stand in the way )
I Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.



Since it is only after people l;east expect it, I will be long dead of body will be delighted to meet Jesus.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

No one can know that Day, whether tomorrow, next week , next year or years, we do not know and should remain Watchful as Christ has told us. At this time we should pray as it is written to pray that Day does not come in the winter months.. I believe there is reason for any and all advise..



Those believers still alive will be caught up WITH the resurrected believers. If you argue with Paul, then I don't know how to convince you.

This believer still alive is one that survived the deception. I would like to hear what time frame you have in mind? Chapter 5 tells of a sudden destruction which is what we stand against and successfully Watch for Christ to return after.. Michael is that voice as a servant, in which Christ shouts

Post#20

I am convinced that the rapture will be the signal for the final week of Daniel's prophecy to start. At that time, everyone will have a God given time table of events.2nd

Yes, The Antichrist must come to power before Jesus returns. The rapture is when the resurrected and changed saints are called up to Him in the air, as Paul teaches.

I gather you believe (rapture) is the rise of people? And I call this the resurrection of people from dead to live in eternity as Christ did..And you believe The Lords Day does follow antiChrist? and is indeed the millinium 1000 years?

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Galveston1,
Please reread what I said.
I do not disagree with Paul.
You quoted the passage that I was referring to the dead in Chrsit.
Peace and kindness,
Fred.

It appears SND, that you and I have differing ideas of who the "dead in Christ" are. I believe they are those righteous people from both the OT times and NT times who have died physically and presently await their resurrections.
If I understand you, it seems you believe the calling up to meet the Lord in the air to be AFTER the Millennium. Is that what you believe?

Dear Ashley0716,
Do you truly believe in your heart of hearts, sitting here typing on a keyboard, at a computer - that mankind is coming to an end right now?
*If it actually happens within the next couple of months - I will hunt you down in the afterlife to offer up a formal apology.

If everything around us: a kleenex box, the telephone, your hair brush, the milk in the fridge, the shampoo in the shower, was to just - (end) VANISH - what would you want to do to prepare? What can the church or your brother and sister in law do that could change this?
How do you expect to prepare?

??

?
?
?

Dear Galveston1,

What is the proper definition of a 'rapture'? And what do you perceive it in your mind to be?

Never mind. Found the definition. I hope when you all meet HER/HIM it is as wonderful and as ecstatic as you presently envision it.

p.s. It's not something you wait for - to experience during the transition from this life, to the next. You can find it in your heart right now. It lives inside you.

It doesn't matter what you think is going to happen or not it's what high people are not telling you that you should be worried about. Just believe in Glory Of Deliverance and your be OK!

Remember: What do we actually know about what's out there and things explode everywhere around us. Just be glade that you believe and that GOD gives you another Day OK!

Bonnie46,
The second coming of Christ is not then end of life on earth but the end of this life as we know it.
The bible tells us that there will be 1000 years of peace, and more after that but different when Satan is released after the 1000 years of him being bound in hell.
There really are no specifics as to when life on earth will completely end.
It may be so far in the future that the sun will become a nova and absorb this planet millions of years from now.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Can't you give me more time to be religious?

Dear Ashley0716,
Do you truly believe in your heart of hearts, sitting here typing on a keyboard, at a computer - that mankind is coming to an end right now?
*If it actually happens within the next couple of months - I will hunt you down in the afterlife to offer up a formal apology.

If everything around us: a kleenex box, the telephone, your hair brush, the milk in the fridge, the shampoo in the shower, was to just - (end) VANISH - what would you want to do to prepare? What can the church or your brother and sister in law do that could change this?
How do you expect to prepare?

????????

?
?
?

It's not that I think I can do anything to stop it. And the Bible DOES teach us that we are supposed to long for the day of Christ's return, for it will mean a world of pain, suffering and sadness is coming to an end. But I am a new mom, and I have dreams of watching my children have children, so me, being human, is a little dismayed about the idea of not getting that opportunity, although a better one lies ahead. And no, it isn't that my groceries and our material things will disappear, but God's word is clear, that WHEN the rapture takes place, all those believing he is the son of God and He died for us, will be caught up in the air with Him, and it WILL be the SCARIEST most CHAOTIC thing the people left behind will ever experience.

If I understand you, it seems you believe the calling up to meet the Lord in the air to be AFTER the Millennium. Is that what you believe?

YES..somewhat ... AFTER Millinium and AFTER the 2nd release of satan which has no power over those dead in Christ, and this first resurrection is a gathering/caught up. (Revelation 20:5-7) The dead will live again on the 2nd gathering when the Book of Life is open to grant the white line garment showing the works of all servants. This plays an example of the cloth linen Christ was given by a young man being as a single event told of in ( Note: Mark 49:51) Live means eternity and dead means the dead in Christ/baptized believers.
The "Elect" which are the dead in Christ,will play a roll in teaching thoses asleep and others who were probably good doers that were falsely lead. (known to be unintental) The millinium 1000 will be a time of feeding/eating the WORD which Christ had His saints/angles gather to the wilderness. The Book of Life is open on the final coming (Revelation 20:12)

Those not in the book are throw in the pit along with satan.(Revealtion 20:14) The we have a new heaven and new earth.. Note scriptue say new earth, so I feel this leads us to think we will live again on the new earth(another age)..However it will be in a spiritual existance/in the air, and not of flesh body(Revelation 21:1) no more seas means flesh, because we are the seas/people in the scripture.

There is a scripture that tells of the day=1000 and added days which follow in total number which is in likelness to the few satan will be given after the 1000. Then it goes on to mention those who reach past those days and even a feww more added days will see eternity. Perhaps you know that verse, and can offer it as the final refer.

Example yet still not the one that states the exact amount of days in fact. Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

1 Corinthians 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. read as 1023

I wish they would hurry it up and then we will all see for ourselves. I mean the longer it takes the more versions of the truth we will have again. "The Day Mankind believed in on Faith"

I cannot see any reason for resurrected and living saints to be called to meet the Lord in tha air AFTER the Millennium.

The only time it would make any sense for anyone to be caught up to meet the Lord is BEFORE He actually sets foot on Earth again. Once He has returned and set up His Kingdom, there is no scripture that says He will again go away. In fact the New Jerusalem will come down, and Heaven will be here. The verse we are discussing says "so shall we ever be with the Lord".

I believe that to say our resurrected bodies will not be physical is an error. After Jesus' resurrection, he proved himself to be physical and not a spirit by eating food in the presence of His Apostles.
Of course, He was not subject to the ordinary laws of physics, and neither will we be.

WakkieRob,
Take all the time you need, just hope and pray that the end of time as we know it does not run out first.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I cannot see any reason for resurrected and living saints to be called to meet the Lord in tha air AFTER the Millennium.

The only time it would make any sense for anyone to be caught up to meet the Lord is BEFORE He actually sets foot on Earth again. Once He has returned and set up His Kingdom, there is no scripture that says He will again go away. In fact the New Jerusalem will come down, and Heaven will be here. The verse we are discussing says "so shall we ever be with the Lord".

I believe that to say our resurrected bodies will not be physical is an error. After Jesus' resurrection, he proved himself to be physical and not a spirit by eating food in the presence of His Apostles.
Of course, He was not subject to the ordinary laws of physics, and neither will we be.

There is no such thing as rapture! Men worked this as leaven into the teaching of religion. Christ would have this rebuked as satan work of deception.

You feel Christ's return on THE LORDS DAY, and that day He will be Flesh/man, never to leave us?
Well I say He returns and will never leave us on THE LORDS DAY.We will all change that DAY to spiritual bodies. Christ [in flesh] is false!!! Christ is of the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN/Spiritual desending upon us.

It is satan that will be man/666 the instead of christ/antichrist here on earth before THE LORDS DAY and satan will be in flesh/man.

This entire conprehension of deception for man by satan is based on the reversed happening with satan trying to deceive everyone.

You said it, There will be no need for Christ to prove himself again.

When Christ comes to help/recompence us from satan and the trouble satan caused us ( II Thessalonians 1:6) Christ comes with His saint/angels in command of His order, (II Thessalonians 1:7).

The angels are a part of The Kingdom realm in Heaven, which are to bring Christ glory by us in admiration. The angels rejoice at the belief in those that did not fall worship to satan, all in the glory of Christ who with his flesh brought the warning "THE WORD" (II Thessalonians 1:10)

Now satan return in II Thessalonians 2 and there it does causion as written by Paul. Paul speaks of the falling away first and that the man/666 be revealed son of perdition (II Thessalonians 2:3)

Again told that even "Him" that comes after the working of satan ( II Thessalonians 2:9)

Knowing you must accept the WORD of TRUTH ( II Thessalonians 2:10) in the mist of deceivableness.

Note: Matthew 24:29-30 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


As for us on THE LORDS DAY do you agree that this will be the millinium 1000?
That Christ will come with His angels and gather/caught up those to take then to a safe place to rest here on earth?
And at that moment in time the change from flesh to terrestrail body takes place so that the remaining time here on earth will be in the celeestail body? ( I Corinthians 15:40)

So as is the resurrection of the dead, it is sown in [corruption/it will parish=flesh;] it is raised [incorruption/celestrail] changed...
Reading all of (I Corinthains 15:42-50) will confirm what takes place when Christ returns. Flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Note: we should not all sleep but we should all be changed.. (I Corinthians 15:51)

If I understand you, it seems you believe the calling up to meet the Lord in the air to be AFTER the Millennium. Is that what you believe?


YES..somewhat ... AFTER Millinium and AFTER the 2nd release of satan which has no power over those dead in Christ, and this first resurrection is a gathering/caught up.]

Understand why I say somewhat... What you refer as coming up to the Lord, I feel means when the book opens for the final judgement and wedding. This is indeed after the Millinium 1000.
The change is done on THE LORDS DAY.
All flesh changes to spiritual so there is no further deception. We are gather/caught up to a safe resting place (wilderness to be fed)
while Christ and His angels in His order of command will lock satan up for a short season. We are safe, and Not near the wrath of God when it comes down on satan.

From Greek , Hebrew, and English that is how best I can explain. I do pray this is understood..

My Son will be baptised the day before the day you say arcura and my the GODS be with him bless his soul!

I cannot understand the bible even when I've read it before am I evil or am I blinded by the light.

sndbay,
I believe as the bible says that we will have glorified bodies as Jesus has now after he rose from the dead.
Jesus could be touched, be broke bread, he ate fish, and he walked through walls and appeared instantly in a far different place.
That's a glorified body ability.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay,
I believe as the bible says that we will have glorified bodies as Jesus has now after he rose from the dead.
Jesus could be touched, be broke bread, he ate fish, and he walked through walls and appeared instantly in a far different place.
That's a glorified body ability.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I agree with that, Fred.

I Jn 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
(KJV)

I have serious differences with the way SND interprets things. The chronology makes no sense to me, and neither does the denial of our getting glorified bodies, which are just as real as the ones we have now, only not subject to the physical laws as now.

"THE WORD" was made Flesh

ICorinthains 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

I Corinthians 15:46-47 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.

I Coringthians 15:48-49 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Note I Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

I Corinthians 15:51-52 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
I Corinthians 15:53-54 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Galveston1,
Thanks.
I agree with you about sndbay's post on this subject.
According to the bible what was said does not make sense to me.
Peace and kindness,
Fred