There has been lots of Miracles coming from the Virigin Mary Statues and also sightings of her as well. Icons such as the Madonna and even Pictures of Jesus Christ Crying Blood.
These have been seen my Millions of people at the same time, in certain parts of the world. I believe that this has to be some kind of message from God that the world is in a lot of trouble and heading for a disaster. Even my Supervisor saw her Aunts Statue of the Blessed Virgin Mother Cry on three different occasions, it was not blood but just tears.
Her Aunt who is the owner never saw her do that, but it was revealed to my supervisor for some reason, and she is a Believer in God, but she is a non-practicing Catholic. Anyway here is a web.site on all of these wonderous things that have been happening all over the world.

Visions of Jesus Christ.com - Weeping statues and Icons (http://www.visionsofjesuschrist.com/weepingstatuesandicons.htm)

Mary's Touch (http://www.marys-touch.com)

Beware of extra-Biblical happenings and ideas.

1. Where in the bible does it say to pay attention to weeping statues, and 2. if it's not specific instructions from god, we should ignore it.

I have heard that a smell of roses when there is no reason for it is also supposed to be associated with Mary. I have had that happen to me outdoors in the wintertime (no it wasn't perfume)

1. where in the bible does it say to pay attention to weeping statues, and 2. if it's not specific instructions from god, we should ignore it.

Well according to that Web.site that I read, they were coming from God, as they saw an apparation of Mary and Jesus that spoke to the people about Repenting, so it had to be from God, Few People are called to Bear the wounds of Christ, But as the Bible states try the Spirits to see if it is from God or not. Many of the Saints Bored the Stigmata the Wounds of Christ.

Also my Supervisor's Aunt has a Statue of the Blessed Mother Mary, My Supervisor saw that Statue Cry Tears on 3 different occasions, and she wiped the statue at 3 different times. She is not one to make up Stories, also she was terrified and told her aunt she would not go near her statue again, but her Aunt who is the owner never saw her statue due that. I have the Blessed Mother Mary and St.Martha on my Altar, and I would love to see my Statues weep, that would be a Blessed event to see something so Supernatural like that.

There has been lots of Miracles coming from the Virigin Mary Statues and also sightings of her as well. Icons such as the Madonna and even Pictures of Jesus Christ Crying Blood.
These have been seen my Millions of people at the same time, in certain parts of the world. I believe that this has to be some kind of message from God that the world is in alot of trouble and heading for a disaster. Even my Supervisor saw her Aunts Statue of the Blessed Virgin Mother Cry on three different occasions, it was not blood but just tears.
Her Aunt who is the owner never saw her do that, but it was revealed to my supervisor for some reason, and she is a Believer in God, but she is a non-practicing Catholic. Anyway here is a web.site on all of these wonderous things that have been happening all over the world.

Visions of Jesus Christ.com - Weeping statues and Icons (http://www.visionsofjesuschrist.com/weepingstatuesandicons.htm)

Mary's Touch (http://www.marys-touch.com)

One should be very careful with these icons, statues and/or images. Only those that have been fully accepted by the Roman Catholic Church are entitled to receive the worship and devotion of the faithful.
In many cases, they are simply the result of some old traditions or superstitions. For instance, there are hundreds of Catholic Churches and Temples in the whole world who seriously complaint they keep a fragment of the Holy Cross! However, the same Vatican recognizes the fact that ALL these fragments put together would be enough to make not one Cross but several hundreds...
Consequently, while there must obviously be some which are the true ones, the majority are fakes although people do not really care. :)

The bible is very clear when it comes to idols. Just saying...

The bible is very clear when it comes to idols. Just saying....

I of course agree with you!

Just what do these supposed tears add to our knowledge of God? Nothing. We have what He has given and preserved for our code of conduct and revelation of Himself to us. All these occurrences do is to further confuse people's minds and detract from the message that God would have them hear.

Well my father has passed on, but he always said that seeing something like this was a sign revealed by God to that person who saw it, a sort of watershed moment in that person's life. That something important was about to happen to that person. And if this strenghtens their faith somehow I don't see any harm in it. But as for feeling special that they saw it and others didn't, I don't agree with that. That would lead to pride on their part.

Sure statues cry etc. It's another way God shows us that he is everywhere, even in us. This is threatening to those who seek to control God by only approving of certain things.

1 Corinthians 10:14
Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.

Again I will warn.. the bible is clear when it comes to the topic of idolatry. God laid down the ground rules. Praying to Marry, or any false idol is idolatry.

Just what do these supposed tears add to our knowledge of God? Nothing. We have what He has given and preserved for our code of conduct and revelation of Himself to us. All these occurances do is to further confuse people's minds and detract from the message that God would have them hear.

Tears and some of these beliefs, as I already said, do not add much, if anything, to our knowledge of GOD, as you say.
However, we cannot neglect or ignore other accepted occurrences like the ones in Lourdes or Fatima, or the much more recent in Medjugorje (Citluk, Bosnia y Herzegovina) where for the last 15 years in a row /from June 24th, 1981) The Virgin has been appearing almost on a daily basis to the 6 children, that are now grown up men and women.
Incidentally, ALL the towns and villages surrounding Medjugorje were almost fully destroyed during the war (1992/1995) BUT, for some strange reason, Medjugorje was spared... Not a single shell fell into the town!

Well my father has passed on, but he always said that seeing something like this was a sign revealed by God to that person who saw it, a sort of watershed moment in that person's life. That something important was about to happen to that person. And if this strenghtens their faith somehow I don't see any harm in it. But as for feeling special that they saw it and others didn't, I don't agree with that. That would lead to pride on their part.

I think your father was right! Please see my answer to Galveston 1. Miracles DO happen every now and then:)

Its real mary that you can see. If its true, why it have a different face. Im not a catholic but I believe in the bible

Its real mary that you can see. if its true, why it have a different face. Im not a catholic but i believe in the bible

It does not matter at all what your denomination may be! The important thing is that you believe in the Scriptures which implies believing in Jesus Christ, as the Son of GOD.
This is what really matters! If you believe in THE WORD and you follow what it says you are on your way to Paradise!
:) :)

It does not matter at all what your denomination may be! The important thing is that you believe in the Scriptures which implies believing in Jesus Christ, as the Son of GOD.
This is what really matters! If you believe in THE WORD and you follow what it says you are on your way to Paradise!
:) :)

Some denomination they believe in the bible but they don't understand the bible and don't follow what is written in the bible. They bow down in grieven images. Bowing in images is an act of worshipping. In the bible it is wriiten" And Ifell down at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it no: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit od prophecy" Revelation 19:10. Even the angel of Lord St. John don't allow to fell down in feet. Now the other denomination its okey to them to fell down images made of stone or wood.

Some denomination they believe in the bible but they dont understand the bible and dont follow what is written in the bible. They bow down in grieven images. bowing in images is an act of worshipping. In the bible it is wriiten" And Ifell down at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it no: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit od prophecy" Revelation 19:10. Even the angel of Lord St. John dont allow to fell down in feet. Now the other denomination its okey to them to fell down images made of stone or wood.

As I say, the important thing is to follow Jesus' message to us. Which implies complying with the 11 Commandments! That's All

It is my opinion that anything the Lord wants to reveal to us, he did in his WORD.. period. None of these things mean anything to me, nor should they mean anything to a Christian. He has said all he needs to in his WORD. But we being stupid sheep would rather look for some sign... sigh... we are no different than Israel in the Old testament.

By the way, Mary had to be saved too! She was a sinner saved by Grace. Yes she was special because she was our Lord's mother... yet she needed salvation.

It is my opinion that anything the Lord wants to reveal to us, he did in his WORD..period. None of these things mean anything to me, nor should they mean anything to a Christian. He has said all he needs to in his WORD. But we being stupid sheep would rather look for some sign....sigh...we are no different than Israel in the Old testament.

By the way, Mary had to be saved too! She was a sinner saved by Grace. yes she was special because she was our Lord's mother...yet she needed salvation.

Absolutely. Whatever we should know to get Salvation HAS ALREADY BEEN TOLD TO US through OUR LORD'S WORD! ALL THE REST IS ACCESORY, or so I think.

What is the lord's word? How does the holy spirit speak? Also, if we should shed tears, wouldn't that have more meaning than something inanimate?

There has been lots of Miracles coming from the Virigin Mary Statues and also sightings of her as well. Icons such as the Madonna and even Pictures of Jesus Christ Crying Blood.
These have been seen my Millions of people at the same time, in certain parts of the world. I believe that this has to be some kind of message from God that the world is in alot of trouble and heading for a disaster. Even my Supervisor saw her Aunts Statue of the Blessed Virgin Mother Cry on three different occasions, it was not blood but just tears.
Her Aunt who is the owner never saw her do that, but it was revealed to my supervisor for some reason, and she is a Believer in God, but she is a non-practicing Catholic. Anyway here is a web.site on all of these wonderous things that have been happening all over the world.

Visions of Jesus Christ.com - Weeping statues and Icons (http://www.visionsofjesuschrist.com/weepingstatuesandicons.htm)

Mary's Touch (http://www.marys-touch.com)

We are not seek after signs. Here is what scripture says:

Matt 12:38-40
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." 39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
NKJV

As I say, the important thing is to follow Jesus' message to us. Which implies complying with the 11 Commandments! That's All

Did you 10 commandments! Following Jesus message is not complying with 10 commandments. You are so wrong on that my brother. 10 commandments is law of moses. You will not be save by 10 commandments. According to the bible on Acts 13:39 "And by Him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."

Tears and some of these beliefs, as I already said, do not add much, if anything, to our knowledge of GOD, as you say.
However, we cannot neglect or ignore other accepted occurrences like the ones in Lourdes or Fatima, or the much more recent in Medjugorje (Citluk, Bosnia y Herzegovina) where for the last 15 years in a row /from June 24th, 1981) The Virgin has been appearing almost on a daily basis to the 6 children, that are now grown up men and women.
Incidentally, ALL the towns and villages surrounding Medjugorje were almost fully destroyed during the war (1992/1995) BUT, for some strange reason, Medjugorje was spared... Not a single shell fell into the town!

It would be best to depend upon the facts and not unsubstantiated rumours.

Check out these 2 pages of a book which provides some factual information regarding the impact of the war on Medjugorje. Clearly any claims that it was untouched are completely fabricated.

Neighbors at War: Anthropological ... - Google Book Search (http://books.google.ca/books?id=EEBkON-ySQUC&pg=PA200&lpg=PA200&dq=Medjugorje+war+casualties&source=web&ots=JOcmwNam7d&sig=AG34O7oojWsC2qN0ji838GyDIrk&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result)

As I say, the important thing is to follow Jesus' message to us. Which implies complying with the 11 Commandments! That's All

The important thing is to receive Jesus as Saviour. Since no one has ever perfectly obeyed the law (Rom 3:23), it is impossible to be saved through obedience to the law. Further if we fail to obey one point of the law, we are guilty of failing to obey all of the law:

James 2:9-11
10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
NKJV

Therefore we cannot depend upon obedience to the law for salvation. The purpose of the law was to point us to Christ:

Gal 3:24
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
NKJV

When we receive Christ as Saviour, the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us, and it is through the empowering of the Holy Spirit that we are able to obey the law, not in letter, but in spirit.

...When we receive Christ as Saviour, the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us, and it is through the empowering of the Holy Spirit that we are able to obey the law, not in letter, but in spirit.
Since we couldn't follow the law without the spirit, what will change that we can follow the law with the spirit? What's the difference in us?

since we couldn't follow the law without the spirit, what will change that we can follow the law with the spirit? what's the difference in us?

The Holy Spirit indwells, guides and empowers those who are saved as we submit ourselves to Him.

The Bible says we are not to make or bow down to any image.
Exodus 20:4-6 4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

I would want to take a closer look at the Mary statue, myself. Recently on the history channel they have been re-creating Greek and Roman 'miracles'. Statues that cry or pour forth water... etc.
There are mechanical ways that can explain a crying statue.
But it doesn't matter what I believe, what matters is what YOU believe and how it affects you.

The Bible says we are not to make or bow down to any image.
Exodus 20:4-6 4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

The Bible also says that GOD created the Universe in SIX days and in the seventh GOD decided to take a rest (Genesis 2: 1- 3), and I expect you do not accept that as a dogma.

If we have to accept what most exegetes say, the Exodus was written by Moses around the 15th century BC. In those days, probably due to the Egyptian and Mesopotamian Pantheons, there was a certain trend to worship all kind of gods and goddesses, many of them represented by animal parts or even animal figures.

Obviously, Moses was trying to avoid this “hobby” to spread too much. Not very successfully, though. For while he was at the Sinai Mountain, his brother Aaron built a Golden Calf and let the Israelites adore it!!!

The Bible has to be interpreted with a certain amount of logic, and not necessarily in accordance with our preferences...

Thus, it is unlikely that in Exodus 20:4-6 4, Moses may have been thinking of the future Mother of our Lord... when he spoke of “any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above”.

Anyway, nobody forces you to consider bowing down to any image of the Virgin Mary. It is just a matter of preferences. I prefer to bow down to an image of the Virgin or Jesus rather than doing it before the image of the Beatles, as many youngsters use to do way back in the 60s...

I would want to take a closer look at the Mary statue, myself. Recently on the history channel they have been re-creating Greek and Roman 'miracles'. Statues that cry or pour forth water...etc.
There are mechanical ways that can explain a crying statue.
But it doesn't matter what I believe, what matters is what YOU believe and how it affects you.

You are absolutely right. What you -or I- may believe DOES NOT MATTER AT ALL. WHAT DOES IS HOW IT MAY AFFECT TO THE THOUSANDS GOING TO LOURDES EVERY YEAR -just one example- to the point that EVERY YEAR there are one or two healings that medical doctors CANNOT explain!!! They keep a register of these unexplainable cures signed by eminent doctors.
Anyway, these cures would be hard to explain by using mechanical ways...

The Bible also says that GOD created the Universe in SIX days and in the seventh GOD decided to take a rest (Genesis 2: 1- 3), and I expect you do not accept that as a dogma.

Are you saying that you don't believe what the Bible says?

I believe it.


Thus, it is unlikely that in Exodus 20:4-6 4, Moses may have been thinking of the future Mother of our Lord... when he spoke of “any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above”.

Then are we to assume that you do not believe that God was thinking of that, or that scripture is wrong when it says that it is inspired by God?

Personally, I believe the Bible when it says that God is omniscient - do you believe that?


Anyway, nobody forces you to consider bowing down to any image of the Virgin Mary. It is just a matter of preferences. I prefer to bow down to an image of the Virgin or Jesus rather than doing it before the image of the Beatles, as many youngsters use to do way back in the 60s...

The question is whether it is acceptable, according to scripture to do so. The Bible is very clear on this point.

Are you saying that you don't believe what the Bible says?

I believe it.



Then are we to assume that you do not believe that God was thinking of that, or that scripture is wrong when it says that it is inspired by God?

Personally, I believe the Bible when it says that God is omniscient - do you believe that?



The question is whether it is acceptable, according to scripture to do so. The Bible is very clear on this point.

Sorry, but I refuse to enter into any kind of debate over double meaning and captious questions.

Sorry, but I refuse to enter into any kind of debate over double meaning and captious questions. [/I]

When God says that we "shall not" do something, I think that is more than just a trivial matter and hardly "double meaning". But I do agree that God left no room for debate for over the matter.

We are not seek after signs. Here is what scripture says:

Matt 12:38-40
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." 39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
NKJV

Here's what else Scripture says:

1 Thessalonians 5 20 Despise not prophecies. 21 But prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Here's what else Scripture says:

1 Thessalonians 5 20 Despise not prophecies. 21 But prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Sincerely,

De Maria


Can something be good if God shall that you shall not do it?

To me the answer is obviously NO.

Can something be good if God shall that you shall not do it?

To me the answer is obviously NO.

This is correct. But it is a non sequitur.

Here is the previous message:

TJ said:

We are not seek after signs. Here is what scripture says:

Matt 12:38-40
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." 39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
NKJV

But when God provides a sign, are we to despise it?

No.

Therefore when God provides the sign of the Virgin Mary as described in Scripture:
Apocalypse 12 1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars:

The Church does not despise this prophecy but tests it and if it is good, holds on to it.

Sincerely,

De Maria

This is correct. But it is a non sequitur.

Not at all. God did give that exact command.


Here is the previous message:

TJ said:

We are not seek after signs. Here is what scripture says:

Matt 12:38-40
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." 39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
NKJV

But when God provides a sign, are we to despise it?

No.

Does God gives signs contrary to His commandments? No.


Therefore when God provides the sign of the Virgin Mary as described in Scripture:
Apocalypse 12 1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars:

First, that prophecy is not usually understood to be Mary, but rather the church. Note that this does not take place at the time of the 1st century, but rather is a future revelation.

So this is no proof of anything, but we do know that God will never contradict His word.

Not at all. God did give that exact command.

Correct. Despise not prophecies.


Does God gives signs contrary to His commandments? No.

Also correct.


First, that prophecy is not usually understood to be Mary,

Sure it is. Mary is the only woman who gave birth to Christ.


but rather the church.

Only as an image of Mary. Since Mary gave birth to Christ and the Church gives birth to Christians in Baptism.


Note that this does not take place at the time of the 1st century, but rather is a future revelation.

Sure it does. St. John saw this vision in heaven.


So this is no proof of anything, but we do know that God will never contradict His word.

Sure it is. It is proof that the Catholic Church is perfectly consistent with Scripture on the handling of prophecy.

Sincerely,

De Maria

There has been lots of Miracles coming from the Virigin Mary Statues and also sightings of her as well. Icons such as the Madonna and even Pictures of Jesus Christ Crying Blood.
These have been seen my Millions of people at the same time, in certain parts of the world. I believe that this has to be some kind of message from God that the world is in alot of trouble and heading for a disaster. Even my Supervisor saw her Aunts Statue of the Blessed Virgin Mother Cry on three different occasions, it was not blood but just tears.
Her Aunt who is the owner never saw her do that, but it was revealed to my supervisor for some reason, and she is a Believer in God, but she is a non-practicing Catholic. Anyway here is a web.site on all of these wonderous things that have been happening all over the world.

What's italicized in green, sounds like this:

Eze 8:14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of Jehovah's house which was toward the north; and behold, there sat the women weeping for Tammuz.

There's no evidence the tears are some kind of message from god. But the world has been, and is, in a lot of trouble and heading for disaster, if we continue worshipping false gods:

Eze 8:18 Therefore will I also deal in wrath; mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity; and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.

Correct. Despise not prophecies.

But that has nothing to do with the topic.



Sure it is. Mary is the only woman who gave birth to Christ.

That is your private interpretation.


Since Mary gave birth to Christ and the Church gives birth to Christians in Baptism.

The second half of that sentence is not Biblical.


Sure it is. It is proof that the Catholic Church is perfectly consistent with Scripture on the handling of prophecy.

That is circular reasoning. Because you accept your denomination's private interpretation, you therefore believe that your denomination's private interpretation is consistent with your denomination's private interpretation.

2 Peter 1:20-21
20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
NKJV

Therefore when God provides the sign of the Virgin Mary as described in Scripture:
Apocalypse 12 1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars:

The Church does not despise this prophecy but tests it and if it is good, holds on to it.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Not the Virgin Mary.. Chapter 12 of Revelation is descriptive to the longest period of time written in one single chapter. No other chapter in the bible does this. It is a chapter of [inserted reference] from the beginning first age through the present age of salvation.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

1. The great wonder in heaven is a "sign"
2. The woman is (mother Israel) or a "believer"
3. The sun, moon, star, is the zodiac that will offer signs to the believer and their path to walk, and keep in mind to watch (signs foretold of in Genesis 1:14)

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

The believer being born here on earth of woman

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

1. another sign
2. a red dragon is a deceiver, satan
3. again with signs of what? satan

On earth there is "Good" and there is "bad". From the beginning of creation as children of God, we have been offered signs from heaven. And we are fore told of certainty in each sign which to follow that is written and which are not to be followed also written. We are within the generation of the fig tree.

"The Good"

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me.

Matthew 13: 37-38 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;



The bad, sons of Cain

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Matthew 13: 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Genesis 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

From the Beginning Good and bad

Not the Virgin Mary.. Chapter 12 of Revelation is descriptive to the longest period of time written in one single chapter. No other chapter in the bible does this. It is a chapter of [inserted reference] from the beginning first age through the present age of salvation.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

1. The great wonder in heaven is a "sign"
2. The woman is (mother Israel) or a "believer"
3. The sun, moon, star, is the zodiac that will offer signs to the believer and their path to walk, and keep in mind to watch (signs foretold of in Genesis 1:14)

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

The believer being born here on earth of woman

The believer being born? That is one way to look at that. But, the more explicit understanding is that this is Jesus Christ:

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne.


Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

1. another sign
2. a red dragon is a deceiver, satan
3. again with signs of what? satan

On earth there is "Good" and there is "bad". From the beginning of creation as children of God, we have been offered signs from heaven. And we are fore told of certainty in each sign which to follow that is written and which are not to be followed also written. We are within the generation of the fig tree.

Correct. The dragon is Satan.


"The Good"

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me.

Matthew 13: 37-38 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;



The bad, sons of Cain

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Matthew 13: 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Genesis 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

From the Beginning Good and bad

All of those are true verses from Scripture. None of them has anything to do with the fact that the woman portrayed in Rev. 12 Mary the Mother of Jesus Christ.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

refer: Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,



The believer being born? That is one way to look at that. But, the more explicit understanding is that this is Jesus Christ:

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne.


Man child= a son

Luke 2:23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord)

nations = the nations
with a rod

Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Revelation 2:9 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.




All of those are true verses from Scripture. None of them has anything to do with the fact that the woman portrayed in Rev. 12 Mary the Mother of Jesus Christ.

Sincerely,

De Maria

It is a matter of choice, and interpretation. I can refer other verses within scripture which confirm what I have shown you for an interpretation, and whom I follow. The Spirit leads today if an individual opens the ear to hear, doing the Will of God on earth as it is in heaven.

Finally, I have lost the thread of this debate. Are we discussing the Virgin Mary being the Mother of Jesus Christ?
If we are, then we probably do not believe in Jesus Christ's divinity (as the FATHER'S SON) either.
And if we do not, then we are NOT Christians! As simply as that!

Finally, I have lost the thread of this debate. Are we discussing the Virgin Mary being the Mother of Jesus Christ?
If we are, then we probably do not believe in Jesus Christ's divinity (as the FATHER'S SON) either.
And if we do not, then we are NOT Christians! As simply as that!

I think that this is not so much a case of trying to argue whether Mary is the mother of Jesus, but De Maria is trying to argue a specific passage in Reveleation as being prophetic of Mary giving birth to Jesus even though, for one thing, the timing is all wrong.

I think that this is not so much a case of trying to argue whether or not Mary is the mother of Jesus, but De Maria is trying to argue a specific passage in Reveleation as being prophetic of Mary giving birth to Jesus even though, for one thing, the timing is all wrong.

St. John's Revelation CANNOT be prophetic regarding anything in connection with Jesus or His Mother because it was written AFTER Jesus' death in the Cross. The only texts that might eventually be considered prophetic are those of the Old Testament which were, of course, written much before Jesus or Mary.

Still, my point was not that. It rather was on the usefulness of such type of debate, for while debatable whatever conclusion reached nothing can be changed.:):)