Hi! I live in Tx my question is can a judge deny me a public definder?I went to court on July , 9 2008 and was told that if wanted a public definder I would have to show the court 4 years of my tax returns. Is this legal ? I am on walfare and can't afford a lawyer. All the lawyer I called wanted 1,000 to 3,000 to take the case. I was charge with crimmal mischif less than 500.00 dollars damage.

hi! i live in Tx my question is can a judge deny me a public definder?i went to court on july , 9 2008 and was told that if wanted a public definder i would have to show the court 4 years of my tax returns. is this legal ? iam on walfare and can"t afford a lawyer. all the lawyer i called wanted 1,000 to 3,000 to take the case. i was charge with crimmal mischif less than 500.00 dollars damage.


Yes, it's legal. There are guidelines and rules.

Why don't you want to show your tax returns?

hi! i live in Tx my question is can a judge deny me a public definder?i went to court on july , 9 2008 and was told that if wanted a public definder i would have to show the court 4 years of my tax returns. is this legal ? iam on walfare and can"t afford a lawyer. all the lawyer i called wanted 1,000 to 3,000 to take the case. i was charge with crimmal mischif less than 500.00 dollars damage.
Because I filed bankrupt 4years ago

because i filed bankrupt 4years ago


I still don't see why you don't want to use this as proof you can't afford a private Attorney - if you can't afford a private Attorney, of course.

If you can afford to pay someone, then don't furnish your tax returns and retain an Attorney.

Hello m:

Public Defenders are for poor people. If you're poor, then show the judge your welfare papers, and tell him that you make so little, that you aren't required to file a tax return (assuming that it's true - and it probably is).

Don't DO anything. Wait till your next court appearance, and ask the judge AGAIN. If they TRY to DO something else at your next appearance, tell the judge that you CANNOT continue WITHOUT legal counsel. Do NOT let yourself get railroaded. STAND UP!

excon

What is wrong about you going bankrupt that does not mean you don't have tax records.
There are income guidelines and other rules, for example in GA if you have the money to make bail, normally you will not get a Public defender since if you have money for bail you have money for an attorney ( that is the thought)

So if you want a public defender supply them the tax records

Thank you excon and judy. As for why I can't show my tax returns is because I don't have 4 years of tax returns I only have that one and he won't accept it . I filled out the paper work to get a public defender and the judge denied it.

what is wrong about you going bankrupt that does not mean you don't have tax records.
There are income guidelines and other rules, for example in GA if you have the money to make bail, normally you will not get a Public defender since if you have money for bail you have money for an attorney ( that is the thought)

So if you want a public defender supply them the tax records
My friend is a bails bonds man and got me out without no moey I still owe him for getting me out.

You can easily get your other IRS tax returns from the IRS.

If you did not file, you will have to go back and refile for those years, and then supply the forms for them.

If you don't provide what they need, they will not provide the attorney

my friend is a bails bonds man and got me out without no moey i still owe him for getting me out.Hello again, m:

The above PROVES nothing. The judge wants you to PROVE you're poor. If you can't do it with tax returns, then take him EVERYTHING you've got. Show him your bankruptcy. Tell him the name of your welfare case worker. Better yet, get an affidavit from your case worker. Take the judge every single piece of paper that backs up your claim of poverty.

Then again, request that you be assigned counsel. Do NOTHING other than that. Do NOT let them proceed with your case. If you don't watch out, Texas WILL railroad you!!

excon

Thanks excon and all the other here for your insite on this matter. excon I will get all my paper work together tonight because I have court this Tuesday sept 9 2008 8:00 o clock once again thanks everyone. mauj

OK! excon will do. Sorry for the late reply

In addition to what has been said above, I as a court bailiff have seen many cases where a defendant delayed meeting the requirements for getting a public defender or otherwise seeking legal counsel and the judge ruled that they had, by their actions, waived their right to an attorney.

While I have also seen appeals based on this practice, it does happen and the judges don't like to mess around with someone who appears to not be doing everything they can to get an attorney as quickly as possible. There is, of course, a Constitutional mandate to ensure a speedy trial.

Do everything you can to get all the documentation requested as quickly as possible. The fact that you had a bankruptcy doesn't matter in this circumstance.

In my state the judge is not involved in determining eligibility for the public defender, it is all done in their office. They don't look at tax returms, but pay stubs and other documentaion of current, as opposed to past, income, or the lack thereof. If you qualify for welfare, as you said, you should also qualify for a public defender.

In addition to what has been said above, I as a court bailiff have seen many cases where a defendant delayed meeting the requirements for getting a public defender or otherwise seeking legal counsel and the judge ruled that they had, by their actions, waived their right to an attorney.

While I have also seen appeals based on this practice, it does happen and the judges don't like to mess around with someone who appears to not be doing everything they can to get an attorney as quickly as possible. There is, of course, a Constitutional mandate to ensure a speedy trial.

Do everything you can to get all the documentation requested as quickly as possible. The fact that you had a bankruptcy doesn't matter in this circumstance.

In my state the judge is not involved in determining eligibility for the public defender, it is all done in their office. They don't look at tax returms, but pay stubs and other documentaion of current, as opposed to past, income, or the lack thereof. If you qualify for welfare, as you said, you should also qualify for a public defender.
Thanks,jimgunther I guess you're right about the judge because he would not let me submit my walfare papers in court today. He the(judge) stated that I already had enough time to comply with the courts order to hire a lawyer but as I stated I have no money to afford a lawyer and that's why I needed a public definder. I ask the judge if I could submit the papers that I had from the walfare office to show the courts I have very little income but he the (judge) said no that if I was'nt ready oct 14 2008 he's going on to proceed with the trial weather I had a lawyer or not or that I would have to repersent myself. After all that put down by the judge here's comes the d.a's asking me would I take 2 years defereded judacataion probation I said no.so the judge set trial 10-14-08 and this is were I stand now!

thanks,jimgunther i guess you"re right about the judge because he would not let me submit my walfare papers in court today. he the(judge) stated that i already had enough time to comply with the courts order to hire a lawyer but as i stated i have no money to afford a lawyer and thats why i needed a public definder. i ask the judge if i could submit the papers that i had from the walfare office to show the courts i have very little income but he the (judge) said no that if i was'nt ready oct 14 2008 he's going on to proceed with the trial weather i had a lawyer or not or that i would have to repersent myself. after all that put down by the judge here's comes the d.a's asking me would i take 2 years defereded judacataion probation i said no.so the the judge set trial 10-14-08 and this is were i stand now!



And so what are you doing to resolve the situation?

Hello again, m:

Texas is going to railroad you, EXACTLY LIKE I SAID THEY WOULD. Texas railroads EVERYBODY. Isn't the dufus in chief from Texas?? Texas should be blown off the map.

excon

PS> (edited) Private Message received earlier today:



hi! excon this is mauj; you answered one of my ouestion the other day( about can a judge deny me a public definder).well let me start off by thanking you for your post back second this is what happend today! i tryed to submit my paper work from the walfare office to the courts today and the judge would not let me he stated that i was given enough time to hire a lawyer and that it was to late to ask for a public definder and that my papers were not acceptable. the d.a. came and offered me a plea of 2 years audj. probation after i finished talking to the judge. i told him no because i didn't do it. thats when the d.a. told me my d.l. had been suspended 3 times. the problem with this is after the first time i never paid to reinstate them. So how can they suspend them 3 times? Then he was saying that if i take the probation that when i got through with it, it wont go on my record. I know thats a lie from my last experience. (But i'm stupid). Now the judge is saying that when i come back in there this time they're going to proceed with the case, and i'm going to have to represent myself. Do you have any suggestions? thanks again maujHello again, M:

I TOLD you they were going to railroad you. If you want to lay down, then take the plea.

If it were me, I would tell them that you can't continue WITHOUT legal representation.

I know the judge doesn't care. But, by saying that, you reserve your rights to appeal.

I HATE Texas.

excon

Mauj, I hope you undertand what deferred adjudication is, in my state its called probation before judgement and is a great way to go if you want to prevent a conviction from appearing on your record. If you are able to get a public defender or other attorney to represent you by the court date, I am sure he will explain it to you.

Basically, it means that you plead guilty, but instead of a finding of guilt being entered, a period of probation is imposed, and if the person completes the probation satisfactorily, no finding of guilt is entered. In other words, you are not convicted of the crime.

In your case this might be a problem because if the offense involved damaging property of some kind, you can pretty much be assured that one of the conditions of probation will be restitution for the damage, which you probably can't pay in your current situation.

Try to get the PD as hard as you can and let us know...

Hello again, m:

Texas is going to railroad you, EXACTLY LIKE I SAID THEY WOULD. Texas railroads EVERYBODY. Isn't the dufus in chief from Texas??? Texas should be blown off the map.

excon

PS> (edited) Private Message received earlier today:hee hee I agree but wait until I get my family out. Hee hee

Mauj, I hope you undertand what deferred adjudication is, in my state its called probation before judgement and is a great way to go if you want to prevent a conviction from appearing on your record. If you are able to get a public defender or other attorney to represent you by the court date, I am sure he will explain it to you.

Basically, it means that you plead guilty, but instead of a finding of guilt being entered, a period of probation is imposed, and if the person completes the probation satisfactorily, no finding of guilt is entered. In other words, you are not convicted of the crime.

In your case this might be a problem because if the offense involved damaging property of some kind, you can pretty much be assured that one of the conditions of probation will be restitution for the damage, which you probably can't pay in your current situation.

Try to get the PD as hard as you can and let us know.....hello... jimgunther yes I understand what deffered judication is and that's why I told the d.a. that I wouldn't accept deffered judication. I'm not admitting guilt for something I didn't do. Now on the other hand if I had committed this crime I would be more than happy to accept the 2 yrs. Probation.

In addition to what has been said above, I as a court bailiff have seen many cases where a defendant delayed meeting the requirements for getting a public defender or otherwise seeking legal counsel and the judge ruled that they had, by their actions, waived their right to an attorney.

While I have also seen appeals based on this practice, it does happen and the judges don't like to mess around with someone who appears to not be doing everything they can to get an attorney as quickly as possible. There is, of course, a Constitutional mandate to ensure a speedy trial.

Do everything you can to get all the documentation requested as quickly as possible. The fact that you had a bankruptcy doesn't matter in this circumstance.

In my state the judge is not involved in determining eligibility for the public defender, it is all done in their office. They don't look at tax returms, but pay stubs and other documentaion of current, as opposed to past, income, or the lack thereof. If you qualify for welfare, as you said, you should also qualify for a public defender.hey! Jim I agree with you 100 percent. Its just these little towns think they can do anything they won't to people and they do. This what's makes the world we live in so bad you got rotten judges;lawyer; d.a's; and the rest of the crap in the system. Seems that your guilty until proven innocent instead of the other way round innocent until proven guilty.

And so what are you doing to resolve the situation?hello judykaytee what I am doing is trying to get the courts to let me admit my welfare papers in court so they can see I do need a public definder.but I am denied every time by the judge.

hello judykaytee what i am doing is trying to get the courts to let me admit my welfare papers in court so they can see i do need a public definder.but i am denied every time by the judge.



Right, got that. I meant what are you doing to get the welfare papers admitted - ?

Have you sent away for copies of your tax returns?

Hello Jude:

I'm sure he doesn't HAVE tax returns. People bouncing along the bottom don't generally file. Of course, if they made LESS than around $9,000 they aren't required to file. But, whethere they DID or not, isn't an issue for Texas.

What this appears to me to be, is just your ordinary Texas railroad job. They have a fictitious bar that poor people need to reach in order to be appointed counsel. Of course, most can't reach it, so, these people get thrown away.

There's got to be 1,000's of innocent people inside Texas dungeons...

excon

Hello Jude:

I'm sure he doesn't HAVE tax returns. People bouncing along the bottom don't generally file. Of course, if they made LESS than around $9,000 they aren't required to file. But, whethere they DID or not, isn't an issue for Texas.

What this appears to me to be, is just your ordinary Texas railroad job. They have a fictitious bar that poor people need to reach in order to be appointed counsel. Of course, most can't reach it, so, these people get thrown away.

There's got to be 1,000's of innocent people inside Texas dungeons....

excon



Not disagreeing about Texas law - where you are allowed to legally shoot people in the back - but OP didn't say she didn't file. She said she only had 1 of the 4 returns.

Suppose it could be either way -

I have no idea what proof of need she showed to get on public assistance.

I can't afford a lawyer either. I was arrested for shoplifting under 100.00. If I gave my tax returns they would say I can afford one but I can't. I have 3 mortgages, a car payment, behind in every bill we have. My husband only brings in enoguh for half the bills without OT and he hasn't gotten much OT lately, aka that's why I shoplifted at a grocery store. I will never do it again but would it be bad to go in without a lawyer??

I can't afford a lawyer either. I was arrested for shoplifting under 100.00. If I gave my tax returns they would say i can afford one but i can't. I have 3 mortgages, a car payment, behind in every bill we have. my husband only brings in enoguh for half the bills without OT and he hasn't gotten much OT lately, aka thats why i shoplifted at a grocery store. I will never do it again but would it be bad to go in without a lawyer???



This should be a separate thread or no one will see it.

I'd go without an Attorney and explain all of this - appears to be your only choice if you don't qualify for a public defender and can't afford an Attorney.

You will probably end up with some sort of community service, a fine, restitution, particularly if it's your first offense.

What does restitution mean? Will It go on my record? Will I be scared for life now? Will I be convicted?

what does restitution mean? Will It go on my record? Will I be scared for life now? Will I be convicted?


Karyn, I just answered you at some length on your other post.

Restitution means you have to pay the store back for what you stole. Given your circumstances, this could very well be waived.

There may or may not be a record. You have to ASK that you not have a record and explain your reasons.

No, this will be just one of those bumps in life and won't follow you around if all goes well. You made a mistake.

I don't see a conviction. I see an explanation, a plea to something (who knows what it'll be reduced to). The Police are definitely trying to help you and you have to hope that the Court will, too.

hi! i live in Tx my question is can a judge deny me a public definder?i went to court on july , 9 2008 and was told that if wanted a public definder i would have to show the court 4 years of my tax returns. is this legal ? iam on walfare and can"t afford a lawyer. all the lawyer i called wanted 1,000 to 3,000 to take the case. i was charge with crimmal mischif less than 500.00 dollars damage.
It is your right to have legal representation and no-one can deny you of that.
However,I'm unsure of the legal system in Texas as far as being poor or not or their ways of determining that, but you are on welfare and if you take that to the judge along with any other government assistance you may be getting, you should be able to prove your being poor. I would NOT allow the case to go any further without legal help.

[QUOTE: AARON602: "It is your right to have legal representation and no-one can deny you of that.
However,I'm unsure of the legal system in Texas as far as being poor or not or their ways of determining that, but you are on welfare and if you take that to the judge along with any other government assistance you may be getting, you should be able to prove your being poor. I would NOT allow the case to go any further without legal help. QUOTE]


This is correct - everyone is entitled to legal representation. HOWEVER, the Courts can and do set up guidelines for which income levels do and do not qualify for FREE legal representation and what proof is required. And that is what happened here.

How would you propose the OP keep the case from going forward without legal representation now that the Judge has told her to either provide tax returns or return with an Attorney?

[QUOTE=JudyKayTee]Right, got that. I meant what are you doing to get the welfare papers admitted - ? Hi! Judykaytee the judge told me it was to late for me to admitt anything into court, he the (judge) said no matter what I try to give the courts he would not accept it ,and to be ready for trial oct 14 2008 I had welfare papers in hand that day to show him the(judge). The d.a"s even took a look at my welfare papers and said well let me talk to the judge to see if he will let you present them into court because we see you do need a public definder.

Right, got that. I meant what are you doing to get the welfare papers admitted - ?what can i do ? when i,ve been told by the judge its to late to admit anything into court.

Have you sent away for copies of your tax returns?yes!

I'm sorry that you're having so much trouble with the court system. However, you say that you went to court on 7/9 and were told at that time to provide documentation of your income which would make you eligible for a public defender; you didn't post this question until 9/6. Now the judge has told you that it's too late to submit anything and you want to know what your options are. Quite frankly, I don't think you have any. You asked for a public defender; they asked for documentation. You waited for 2 months before even posting the question here which, in my eyes, is more than ample time to provide documentation. However, you did not.

I could be totally wrong but I don't think you have many options at this point. Yes, you can tell the judge that you cannot continue without legal counsel, which you are legally entitled to. But the court allowed you time to either a)prove that you need a public defender or b)obtain an attorney. You chose to do neither. The court system can't be put on hold just because you chose option C.

Ask for a continuance, postpone court date. Explain that you know nothing about what is going on with the case and that you NEED legal help. Also explain that you are working on getting the proper documentation proving that you are poor.
On that note, I don't understand how a court can try you while denying you legal help, that being your RIGHT here in the United States...

Ask for a continuance, postpone court date. Explain that you know nothing about what is going on with the case and that you NEED legal help. Also explain that you are working on geting the proper documentation proving that you are poor.
On that note, I dont understand how a court can try you while denying you legal help, that being your RIGHT here in the United States....



Again, the Court did not deny her legal assistance. It denied her FREE legal assistance because she either doesn't qualify OR can't prove that she does.

Everyone who walks into a Courtroom is not assigned a FREE Attorney. Not everyone qualifies.

Yes, she NEEDS an Attorney - one she may very well have to pay for.

You need grounds for a continuance, a postponement. This has been going on since July. The Judge is probably up to here with the whole "free Attorney" argument.

Continuing to post the same wrong legal information does not make it correct legal information.

Again, the Court did not deny her legal assistance. It denied her FREE legal assistance because she either doesn't qualify OR can't prove that she does.

Everyone who walks into a Courtroom is not assigned a FREE Attorney. Not everyone qualifies.

Yes, she NEEDS an Attorney - one she may very well have to pay for.

You need grounds for a continuance, a postponement. This has been going on since July. The Judge is probably up to here with the whole "free Attorney" argument.

My point exactly. The OP has never once been told that s/he will not be allowed legal representation. Instead, the OP squandered the time that they were given to provide proof of income, or lack thereof, which would entitle them to a public defender. And as I said, the court is not going to wait until the OP decides to start being more responsible; if they did, then they'd have to make that exception for every person who walked in through the doors and nothing would ever get accomplished.

My apologies to Ex but I just don't see this as a case of being "railroaded." While it may be true in a few or in a majority of cases, it's not in this one. The OP neglected to follow the court's guidelines and is now paying the price for it.

My apologies to Ex but I just don't see this as a case of being "railroaded." While it may be true in a few or in a majority of cases, it's not in this one. The OP neglected to follow the court's guidelines and is now paying the price for it.Hello again, this:

No apologies necessary. I don't disagree that the defendant fiddled around while he or she should have been diligent. He MAY not have understood the importance of it. You must remember, he DIDN'T have ANYONE guiding him along until he happened upon us.

The punishment for that indiscretion, however, should NOT be a DENIAL of his Constitutional right to counsel.

Every effort should be made by the judge to insure that the defendant has counsel. In TEXAS, as has been demonstrated, they do their best to insure the opposite.

I don't think the court should act in the manner it has, until it is CERTAIN that the defendant is stringing it along. I don't think that threshold has been reached yet. Of course, we only know what we've been told.

excon

Hello again, this:

No apologies necessary. I don't disagree that the defendant fiddled around while he or she should have been diligent. He MAY not have understood the importance of it. You must remember, he DIDN'T have ANYONE guiding him along until he happened upon us.

The punishment for that indiscretion, however, should NOT be a DENIAL of his Constitutional right to counsel.

Every effort should be made by the judge to insure that the defendant has counsel. In TEXAS, as has been demonstrated, they do their best to insure the opposite.

I don't think the court should act in the manner it has, until it is CERTAIN that the defendant is stringing it along. I don't think that threshold has been reached yet. Of course, we only know what we've been told.

excon

We agree the OP spent their time foolishly. However, I don't think they're being "punished" by the court; they knew the situation was important enough that they asked for a public defender. Why they waited 2 months to even pose the question is beyond you, me or anyone else on this board.

Should the OP have counsel? Absolutely. As you pointed out, that is their Constitutional right. On the other side of the coin, I don't think it's right that taxpayers' money should be spent having one hearing after the other just because the OP is dragging their feet. They were given time to act and they chose not to.

But that's just me :)

I'm sorry that you're having so much trouble with the court system. However, you say that you went to court on 7/9 and were told at that time to provide documentation of your income which would make you eligible for a public defender; you didn't post this question until 9/6. Now the judge has told you that it's too late to submit anything and you want to know what your options are. Quite frankly, I don't think you have any. You asked for a public defender; they asked for documentation. You waited for 2 months before even posting the question here which, in my eyes, is more than ample time to provide documentation. However, you did not.

I could be totally wrong but I don't think you have many options at this point. Yes, you can tell the judge that you cannot continue without legal counsel, which you are legally entitled to. But the court allowed you time to either a)prove that you need a public defender or b)obtain an attorney. You chose to do neither. The court system can't be put on hold just because you chose option C.
Hello 8384 frist of all I am dealing with Texas who give a rats a** about giving a public defender to anyone. Second I did try to show the courts the I am on public assistant the very first day that court started 07-09-2008 and was told by judge I needed 4 years of my tax returns not public assistant papers I don't have 4 years of tax returns which I tried to tell the judge and he replied to me well it's to bad because the courts had given me enough time.to hire attorney I was trying to come up with some money to hire an attorney but had no luck.thats why I was trying to show the courts that I am poor and can't afford an attorney.

We agree the OP spent their time foolishly. However, I don't think they're being "punished" by the court; they knew the situation was important enough that they asked for a public defender. Why they waited 2 months to even pose the question is beyond you, me or anyone else on this board.

Should the OP have counsel? Absolutely. As you pointed out, that is their Constitutional right. On the other side of the coin, I don't think it's right that taxpayers' money should be spent having one hearing after the other just because the OP is dragging their feet. They were given time to act and they chose not to.

But that's just me :)hello again 8384 why is it so hard for you to understand that the court don"t wont to even see my papers that i have from the walfare office i've tried to submit the papers from the very first day of court to the courts and they did'nt won"t to see what I had to show them.if the government gives me cash assistance and food stamps would you consider that being poor enough to get a public defender?

We agree the OP spent their time foolishly. However, I don't think they're being "punished" by the court; they knew the situation was important enough that they asked for a public defender. Why they waited 2 months to even pose the question is beyond you, me or anyone else on this board.

Should the OP have counsel? Absolutely. As you pointed out, that is their Constitutional right. On the other side of the coin, I don't think it's right that taxpayers' money should be spent having one hearing after the other just because the OP is dragging their feet. They were given time to act and they chose not to.

But that's just me :)8384 you are getting on my nerves with your negative remark. Go back to my first post and read from there. The reason I've just now started posting on this site is because I just found it surfing on the net and no I am not draging my feet I called many attorneys to see if they would help me but they all wanted 1,500 to 3,000 to take the case ONCE AGAIN I DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF MONEY. From day one I told the courts I needed a public defender but when you have a smart a** judge that thinks that everybodys well off like he is then its OK for him to dog me out just because I am poor when you have no one on your side to fight for you then you are easy pray for the courts to have their way with you and I think that's wrong.

Ask for a continuance, postpone court date. Explain that you know nothing about what is going on with the case and that you NEED legal help. Also explain that you are working on geting the proper documentation proving that you are poor.
On that note, I dont understand how a court can try you while denying you legal help, that being your RIGHT here in the United States....hello arron602 I did ask the courts for legal help but was turned down due to the fact I cuuld"nt show tax returns for the last 4 years but... like I explain before if the state of Texas gives me food stamps and cash assistance and then the courts should see that I need a public defender.

Again, the Court did not deny her legal assistance. It denied her FREE legal assistance because she either doesn't qualify OR can't prove that she does.

Everyone who walks into a Courtroom is not assigned a FREE Attorney. Not everyone qualifies.

Yes, she NEEDS an Attorney - one she may very well have to pay for.

You need grounds for a continuance, a postponement. This has been going on since July. The Judge is probably up to here with the whole "free Attorney" argument.

Continuing to post the same wrong legal information does not make it correct legal information.helo judy how? Can I prove to the courts that I am poor and can"t afford an attorney when the courts won"t allow me to show them my paperwork from the walfare office, stating that I get public assistance I don't have the 4 years of tax returns I only have the one from when I filled bankrupt seven years ago but I do have my walfare papers. By the way when I filled out out the papers from the courts asking if I needed a public defender I checked the box (yes) no where on that paperwork it said that I would have to show 4 years of tax returns in order to get a public defender. It asked if I needed assistance which is yes! Someone posted why did I wait two month to post like, I said it was because I just found this site an I also had been looking to see if I could afford an attorney not sitting on my a** but.. when you got no money what do you do?

My point exactly. The OP has never once been told that s/he will not be allowed legal representation. Instead, the OP squandered the time that they were given to provide proof of income, or lack thereof, which would entitle them to a public defender. And as I said, the court is not going to wait until the OP decides to start being more responsible; if they did, then they'd have to make that exception for every person who walked in through the doors and nothing would ever get accomplished.

My apologies to Ex but I just don't see this as a case of being "railroaded." While it may be true in a few or in a majority of cases, it's not in this one. The OP neglected to follow the court's guidelines and is now paying the price for it. hello 8384 mauj here! After reading your post I have to disagree with you on everything you quoted for one I did not squandered time I did look for legal help. I did ask if I could submit my public assistance papers into court I was denied and this was just the second court date so what do you mean the court gave me enough time when in fact I asked for a public defender the first court date and was turned down just because I did"t have 4 years of my tax returns but.... i did let the court know that i was on public assistance but was told it was to late to submit anything to the court and to be ready for trial next court date.now you tell me who"s being railroaded. The state of Texas gives me tanf which stand for temporely assistance for need familys that means that I am below the poverty line so why don"t you think this would"nt be good enough for the courts to see that I need a public defender I don't have 4 years of tax returns.

helo judy how? can i prove to the courts that i am poor and can"t afford an attorney when the courts won"t allow me to show them my paperwork from the walfare office, stating that i get public assistance i don"t have the 4 years of tax returns i only have the one from when i filled bankrupt seven years ago but i do have my walfare papers. by the way when i filled out out the papers from the courts asking if i needed a public defender i checked the box (yes) no where on that paperwork it said that i would have to show 4 years of tax returns in order to get a public defender. it asked if i needed assistance which is yes! someone posted why did i wait two month to post like, i said it was because i just found this site an i also had been looking to see if i could afford an attorney not sittin on my a** but.. when you got no money what do you do?


I didn't disagree with you or criticize your situation - I was disagreeing with Aaron who thought you could simply walk into the Courtroom and ask for a continuance without grounds or despite the fact that Judge has already said you need to provide tax returns.

I never said you were sitting around doing nothing - I said the Judge at the moment doesn't want to hear it. He wants proof - and, no, I don't know how you get around that.

Hello again, mauj:

Apparently, justice is NOT available in the court you happen to be in. As I said earlier, that's not news in Texas.

The only way I know how to get around a judge who is bound and determined to deny you your Constitutional rights, and consequently CONVICT you, is to appeal his decision to another court.

I reiterate again, that you say to the court, the following words: "I cannot continue without legal counsel. I request AGAIN, that you appoint a lawyer for me".

In order to preserve your appeal rights, you MUST get these words into the court record! Don't argue with the judge. Don't argue your case. If they put on your case, as I suspect they will, every single time they come to you for a remark or a defense, say those words again, and say NOTHING else.

Whatever you say isn't going to matter to THIS judge in any case, so say nothing. The very day you're finally convicted, hand write a letter to the court stating that your Constitutional right to counsel has been denied, and you hereby, appeal that decision. In your letter ask the court to consider your letter to be a notice of appeal OR a motion to reconsider. Ask them also, to appoint a lawyer to represent you in the appeal.

File your letter with the clerk of court THAT DAY. Send a copy to the prosecutors office, send one to the public defenders office, and send one to the judge.

Hopefully, justice will be available to you in the appellate courts.

excon

I'm sorry if you felt I was being negative. However, I gave my opinion based on the information that was provided by none other than yourself.

You initially posted on 9/6/08 that your first hearing had taken place on 7/9/08.

i went to court on july , 9 2008 and was told that if wanted a public definder i would have to show the court 4 years of my tax returns.

After being advised on this site to submit your welfare paperwork, you posted later that same day that you had court on 9/9/2008.

... i will get all my paper work together tonite because i have court this tuesday sept 9 2008 8:00 o clock ...

You then try to say that you had this paperwork on 7/9/08 but the judge didn't want it...

... i did try to show the courts the i am on public assistant the very first day that court started 07-09-2008 and was told by judge i needed 4 years of my tax returns not public assistant papers ...
... then say that you tried on 9/9/08 to resubmit the paperwork which had already been denied on 7/9/08.

... i don't have 4 years of tax returns which i tried to tell the judge and he replied to me well it's to bad because the courts had given me enough time.to hire attorney ...
If you already knew that the judge did not want your welfare paperwork, then why did you try to resubmit it 2 months later?

You state that you "called many attorneys;" did you explain your situation to any of them after you realized you don't have the funds to retain one? I can't believe that not a single attorney wouldn't have been able to provide you with the same information that you received on this board, if not better.

As for this paragraph:

I did ask if i could submit my public assistance papers into court i was denied and this was just the second court date so what do you mean the court gave me enough time when in fact i asked for a public defender the first court date and was turned down just because i did"t have 4 years of my tax returns but.... i did let the court know that i was on public assistance but was told it was to late to submit anything to the court and to be ready for trial next court date.
1. You were not "turned down" at the first court date. You were asked to provide proof of income to determine whether you were eligible for a public defender.
2. You waited until the second court date to try to submit proof of income; this should have been done weeks prior, not the day of.

I'm not even sure what the whole truth of this story is because you keep changing little bits and pieces. First you say that you're going to get your welfare paperwork together for the 9/9 hearing; then you say you already tried to submit it at the 7/9 hearing and were denied. Judy asked if you had sent for copies of your tax returns and you told her yes; now you're saying that you don't have anything. It's all rather confusing.

And before you start quoting me 4 different times and telling me that I'm getting on your nerves, please remember that others agree with me:

I don't disagree that the defendant fiddled around while he or she should have been diligent.

I'm sorry if you felt I was being negative. However, I gave my opinion based on the information that was provided by none other than yourself.

You initially posted on 9/6/08 that your first hearing had taken place on 7/9/08.


After being advised on this site to submit your welfare paperwork, you posted later that same day that you had court on 9/9/2008.


You then try to say that you had this paperwork on 7/9/08 but the judge didn't want it...

...then say that you tried on 9/9/08 to resubmit the paperwork which had already been denied on 7/9/08.

If you already knew that the judge did not want your welfare paperwork, then why did you try to resubmit it 2 months later?

You state that you "called many attorneys;" did you explain your situation to any of them after you realized you don't have the funds to retain one? I can't believe that not a single attorney wouldn't have been able to provide you with the same information that you received on this board, if not better.

As for this paragraph:

1. You were not "turned down" at the first court date. You were asked to provide proof of income to determine whether or not you were eligible for a public defender.
2. You waited until the second court date to try to submit proof of income; this should have been done weeks prior, not the day of.

I'm not even sure what the whole truth of this story is because you keep changing little bits and pieces. First you say that you're going to get your welfare paperwork together for the 9/9 hearing; then you say you already tried to submit it at the 7/9 hearing and were denied. Judy asked if you had sent for copies of your tax returns and you told her yes; now you're saying that you don't have anything. It's all rather confusing.

And before you start quoting me 4 different times and telling me that I'm getting on your nerves, please remember that others agree with me:I don't care who agrees with you. Again because you must can NOT read. The first time I went to court the judge told me to bring him 4 yrs tax returns NOT and I say it again NOT anything about my welfare papers. It was excon who advised me to take my welfare papers and anything else to show I was poor.

All this is over a $500 criminal mischief charge. This sounds like a misdemeanor crime. You shouldn't get jail time for this.

All this is over a $500 criminal mischief charge. This sounds like a misdemeanor crime. You shouldn't get jail time for this.

Hello twinkie yes its all over a $500 dollars criminal mischief. If someone said that you broke the law and you know that you did"nt do it what will you do lay down and let the system convict you or would you fight for your rights like i"am trying to do it may be a criminal mischief but if you are convicted it goes on you record will you want the system to charge and try to convict you for every time someone said that you did something.

hello twinkie yes its all over a $500 dollars criminal mischief. if someone said that you broke the law and you know that you did"nt do it what will you do lay down and let the system convict you or would you fight for your rights like i"am trying to do it may be a criminal mischief but if you are convicted it goes on you record will you want the system to charge and try to convict you for every time someone said that you did something.


I'm amazed that the Court is putting this kind of time into a $500 charge which is a misdemeanor.

I'm amazed that the Court is putting this kind of time into a $500 charge which is a misdemeanor.Hello Judy:

They found an opening in one of their facilities, and want to fill it ASAP.

excon

PS> I HATE Texas

i don't care who agrees with you. again because you must can NOT read. the first time i went to court the judge told me to bring him 4 yrs tax returns NOT and i say it again NOT anything about my welfare papers. it was excon who advised me to take my welfare papers and anything else to show i was poor.

I can read. I can read very clearly that you posted:

... i did try to show the courts the i am on public assistant the very first day that court started 07-09-2008 and was told by judge i needed 4 years of my tax returns not public assistant papers ...
So if you weren't using your welfare papers to prove your income on 7/9, what were you using? These are your words, not mine.

Something else I thought of: how were you able to get on welfare? That requires proof of income, which you keep insisting that you don't have.

Hello again, this:

Let's for a minute, assume that everything you say mauj did, he did. Let's say he WAS, indeed, irresponsible.

I reiterate; THIS isn't like a school assignment he missed where he'll get a bad grade. It isn't like an application for a job that he forgot about. It isn't even like a ticket that he missed the deadline on and now has to pay more. Nope. We're talking about JAIL TIME, here. A misdemeanor is a CRIMINAL offense that is punishable by imprisonment for up to ONE year in the county jail. That's a YEAR.

Now, some of you poo poo this, as though you can't believe that they actually would put him in the slam for a FULL year. But, they would. And, they'd enjoy doing it. If you think they wouldn't, you shouldn't be answering questions on the criminal law board. Plus, Mauj asks a good question of you. Would YOU lay down for them, even for such a piddly thing as this?? I don't think you would.

And, that's exactly WHY he is entitled to a lawyer. The Constitution says so. Now, I agree with you, that this TEXAS judge IS treating it as though he missed a school assignment, and too bad for him.

However, in THIS country, mauj, and people like him, are presumed to be innocent. It is incumbant on the court to insure that every effort is made to insure that his Constitutional rights are upheld. A cornerstone of those right, is the right to counsel - even if it means inconveniencing the court. That isn't ME saying that. It's the Constitution.

Therefore, in my view, the issue ISN'T "did he screw around?", cause even if he did, he ISN'T screwing around now. THAT is abundantly clear. He absolutely should be appointed a lawyer.

excon

Whether I'm right, wrong or just plain stupid, I still say we're not getting the full story. Like I asked in my last post, how was mauj able to get on welfare? If s/he was able to provide the documentation required by the welfare office, then there shouldn't be an issue providing it to the court.

Yes, mauj is innocent until proven guilty. But we don't know; this could be his/her 2nd, 3rd, 4th time in front of this judge. Perhaps mauj has a history of stringing out trials, perhaps not. We only know what we're being told.

Whether I'm right, wrong or just plain stupid, I still say we're not getting the full story. Like I asked in my last post, how was mauj able to get on welfare? If s/he was able to provide the documentation required by the welfare office, then there shouldn't be an issue providing it to the court.

Yes, mauj is innocent until proven guilty. But we don't know; this could be his/her 2nd, 3rd, 4th time in front of this judge. Perhaps mauj has a history of stringing out trials, perhaps not. We only know what we're being told.

Hello 8384 yes it is my 4th time in front of this judge. And I do not have a history stringing out trials thank you! Why! Don"t you hop on a plane come here to texas and go to court with me so you can get the picture on whats going on here,instesd of guessing. why! won"t you get it through that head of yours that the courts don't want any documentation I have. Say what you want about me with your negative thoughts but its not going to break my hope that I will come out of this a winner.

hello 8384 yes it is my 4th time in front of this judge. and i do not have a history stringing out trials thank you! why! don"t you hop on a plane come here to texas and go to court with me so you can get the picture on whats going on here,instesd of guessing. why! won"t you get it through that head of yours that the courts don"t want any documentation i have. say what you want about me with your negative thoughts but its not going to break my hope that i will come out of this a winner.



I think it's time to close this thread. Going nowhere and getting insulting.

I'm amazed that the Court is putting this kind of time into a $500 charge which is a misdemeanor. I agree judy

I think it's time to close this thread. Going nowhere and getting insulting.well judy if people would stop jumping the gun on me and quoting me on how I am not being truthful when all I did was told the truth on this site I "am not trying to play games with anyone here I ask for help not to be put down like 8384 is doing and say I not telling the truth. Thank you!

Whether I'm right, wrong or just plain stupid, I still say we're not getting the full story. Like I asked in my last post, how was mauj able to get on welfare? If s/he was able to provide the documentation required by the welfare office, then there shouldn't be an issue providing it to the court.you answered your on question just plain stupid.i didn"t have to show the walfare office nothing they done their own checking on me and saw i had no income reported back on me from the i.r.s

Yes, mauj is innocent until proven guilty. But we don't know; this could be his/her 2nd, 3rd, 4th time in front of this judge. Perhaps mauj has a history of stringing out trials, perhaps not. We only know what we're being told.what ever miss 8384 since you think I"am not telling the truth come and arrest me because you have been putting me down since you read my post. if this were you in my shoes you would try to get help any way you could like i"am trying to do so please!. stop all the remarks about I"am not telling the truth when infact i "am .

Hello again, this:

Let's for a minute, assume that everything you say mauj did, he did. Let's say he WAS, indeed, irresponsible.

I reiterate; THIS isn't like a school assignment he missed where he'll get a bad grade. It isn't like an application for a job that he forgot about. It isn't even like a ticket that he missed the deadline on and now has to pay more. Nope. We're talking about JAIL TIME, here. A misdemeanor is a CRIMINAL offense that is punishable by imprisonment for up to ONE year in the county jail. That's a YEAR.

Now, some of you poo poo this, as though you can't believe that they actually would put him in the slam for a FULL year. But, they would. And, they'd enjoy doing it. If you think they wouldn't, you shouldn't be answering questions on the criminal law board. Plus, Mauj asks a good question of you. Would YOU lay down for them, even for such a piddly thing as this??? I don't think you would.

And, that's exactly WHY he is entitled to a lawyer. The Constitution says so. Now, I agree with you, that this TEXAS judge IS treating it as though he missed a school assignment, and too bad for him.

However, in THIS country, mauj, and people like him, are presumed to be innocent. It is incumbant on the court to insure that every effort is made to insure that his Constitutional rights are upheld. A cornerstone of those right, is the right to counsel - even if it means inconveniencing the court. That isn't ME saying that. It's the Constitution.

Therefore, in my view, the issue ISN'T "did he screw around?", cause even if he did, he ISN'T screwing around now. THAT is abundantly clear. He absolutely should be appointed a lawyer.

exconthanks excon for clearing this matter up for me maybe people would realize that there are unjust people in our courts. By the way I got a call from the district courts today asking if I wanted to sue the state of Texas and that she going to send me the paper work in the mail to file. So if was wrong about this situation why would a district judge phone me today and ask me if I wanted to file suit.again thanks for all your help! mauj

Hello Judy:

They found an opening in one of their facilities, and want to fill it ASAP.

excon thats so true

PS> I HATE Texas me to

thanks excon for clearing this matter up for me maybe people would realize that there are unjust people in our courts. by the way i got a call from the district courts today asking if i wanted to sue the state of texas and that she going to send me the paper work in the mail to file. so if was wrong about this situation why would a district judge phone me today and ask me if i wanted to file suit.again thanks for all your help! mauj



A Texas District Judge called you and asked you if you wanted to sue the State of Texas and is going to send you the paperwork necessary to file the lawsuit?

Not doubting you but I have never heard of anything like this, never.

A Texas Court helping someone file a lawsuit against Texas -

I'll be curious how this plays out.

what ever miss 8384 since you think i"am not telling the truth come and arrest me because you have been putting me down since you read my post. if this were you in my shoes you would try to get help any way you could like i"am trying to do so please!.... stop all the remarks about i"am not telling the truth when infact i "am .

Fourth time in front of this judge, eh? I'd be tired of you too.

Stop having pity soup for dinner. I never once said you weren't telling the truth and I never put you down. What I did say was that we only know one side of the story. Far too many people come on this website and ask for advice without providing the whole story. You can't give accurate advice when you receive biased information.

I did question how you were able to prove your income to the welfare office but can't prove it to this judge; you still have yet to answer that. Instead, you pout and complain about your trial and make irrational comments like:

... maybe people would realize that there are unjust people in our courts ...
Give me a break. I've been screwed over by the court system too. The difference is that I gave the court the paperwork they asked for in a timely fashion. I wasn't in front of the same judge four times. I had witnesses on my side and the judge screwed me over anyway. So quit patting yourself on the back.

I doubt it was a district judge, I even doubt it was really the court. Most likely a legal chaser ( some lawyer or firm) who looks over records and tries to find civil right cases to sue for big money ( and of course they get the majority of that money)

Bet when paper work comes it will be to file a case but though an attorney office

I doubt it was a district judge, I even doubt it was really the court. Most likely a legal chaser ( some lawyer or firm) who looks over records and tries to find civil right cases to sue for big money ( and of course they get the majority of that money)

Bet when paper work comes it will be to file a case but though an attorney office


Waiting to see how this plays out -

I doubt it was a district judge, I even doubt it was really the court. Most likely a legal chaser ( some lawyer or firm) who looks over records and tries to find civil right cases to sue for big money ( and of course they get the majority of that money) chuck you"re wrong the papers came today the envelope clearly say u.s district courts eastern district 211 w ferguson room 106 tyler tx 75702.

Bet when paper work comes it will be to file a case but though an attorney officewrong again chuck the folder contain great news for me all I have to do is fill them out and send them back to the u.s district court. This was requested by the district courts.

Waiting to see how this plays out - judy the folder I received today is big golden envelope with these exact words u.s district court eastern district of Texas 211 w ferguson room 106 tyler tx 75702 now! Would you say its from a lawyer I think not . What's inside is good news for me all the district courts asked is that when I fill them out make copys for my record to keep and they would file the rest for me free I say it again free of charge. So someone is looking out for me and that's god I will keep this site up to date on what happens.

Fourth time in front of this judge, eh? I'd be tired of you too.

Stop having pity soup for dinner. I never once said you weren't telling the truth and I never put you down. What I did say was that we only know one side of the story. Far too many people come on this website and ask for advice without providing the whole story. You can't give accurate advice when you receive biased information.you're right but i'am not telling one side of the story it was just a disagreement between you and me on this site.

I did question how you were able to prove your income to the welfare office but can't prove it to this judge; you still have yet to answer that. Instead, you pout and complain about your trial and make irrational comments like:look who"s pouting now! ...you
Give me a break. I've been screwed over by the court system too. The difference is that I gave the court the paperwork they asked for in a timely fashion. I wasn't in front of the same judge four times. I had witnesses on my side and the judge screwed me over anyway. So quit patting yourself on the back. just my point you've been screwed by the system and it don't feel to good do it) so that's why I'am trying to stand up for my rights.also did you have lawyer or did you just go into courts with your little witnesses and expect to win maybe that why you got railroaded. No lawyer = gulity every time so do you see my point now!

I doubt it was a district judge, I even doubt it was really the court. Most likely a legal chaser ( some lawyer or firm) who looks over records and tries to find civil right cases to sue for big money ( and of course they get the majority of that money)

Bet when paper work comes it will be to file a case but though an attorney officealmost everyone here have their doubt about me but its OK! Say what you want but" before you call the kettle black you better look again, again, to see if its black.I don't have the time to come on a site and make up bull. What I've told on this site is all true it may sound a bit crazy but it's the truth.

judy the folder i received today is big golden envelope with these exact words u.s district court eastern district of texas 211 w ferguson room 106 tyler tx 75702 now! would you say its from a lawyer i think not . whats inside is good news for me all the district courts asked is that when i fill them out make copys for my record to keep and they would file the rest for me free i say it again free of charge. so someone is looking out for me and thats god i will keep this site up to date on what happens.


This is absolutely the strangest thing I've ever heard! PLEASE keep us updated - I would say it's a scam but putting the wrods 'US District Court... " on the envelope would make it fraud.

Just when I think never, never happens!

Yes. It all depends on your income. Sometimes, if the State is not requesting jail you also are not entitled to a PD

Hello again, mauj:

One of the problems you're having here, is the lack of details. I know you don't understand this. In fact, it's that basic misunderstanding of the law that is at the heart of your problem.

That's NOT surprising. You don't know the law or how it works. That's why you needed a lawyer from the get go.

That's ALSO why you're getting the answers you are here. In fact, the BEST answers are the ones that question your behavior, because they mirror exactly how the judge and the prosecutor look at your behavior. Hopefully, this has given you a heads up as to who the people are that you're dealing with. They're NOT nice people.

We, on the other hand, ARE nice people. Nobody here is putting you down. The way the conversation is proceeding, is exactly what you need.

Which brings me back to where I began - your lack of details. Not only are we NICE people, but in order to give you an answer you can count on, we're DETAIL people. We NEED to know ALL the little things that happened in between the BIG events. We're just like the law - we want it all. That's GOOD for you.

Now, we KNOW that the court itself doesn't initiate contact with prospective litigants. That doesn't mean we don't believe that you were contacted, and that we don't believe that you received your yellow envelope, or who it's from. We just don't believe it happened out of the blue. As a matter of fact, it DIDN'T happen out of the blue. We just want to know exactly HOW it did happen.

If you don't know, and you probably don't, we wish you would ask more questions. Do you have the name of the person who called?? Can you call them back? Can you ask them their interest in the case. It's VERY mysterious to us.

I'm also going to request that you post all your stuff here on the public board. As I said, earlier, you're getting BETTER stuff from those who are questioning you.

excon