:confused: If a father walkes away and is not seen in almost 2 years and is not helping out with minor child or has no contact with child is that considered abanoment?? I live in Michigan do we have such a law here? :confused:

:confused: If a father walkes away and is not seen in almost 2 years and is not helping out with minor child or has no contact with child is that considered abanoment??? I live in michigan do we have such a law here? :confused:



No, it is not abandonment. Do you have a custody/support order?

There is no benefit to an abandonment action - keep collecting support.

This appears to be a common misconception. Abandonment of a child is leaving a child totally unsupervised for a period. This is a criminal charge.

Abandonment may be used as grounds to achieve something else, like a divorce or termination of parental rights. But there is little value in using it that way.

What is it you really want to accomplish?

As pointed out the term abandonment seems to have a lot of people confused. If you would let us know what you are trying to accomplish then maybe we can help you figure out a way to get it done but you have no case for abandonment.

Abandon |əˈbandən|
Verb [ trans. ]
1 give up completely (a course of action, a practice, or a way of thinking) : he had clearly abandoned all pretense of trying to succeed. See note at relinquish .
• discontinue (a scheduled event) before completion : against the background of perceived threats, the tour was abandoned.
2 cease to support or look after (someone); desert : her natural mother had abandoned her at an early age.
• leave (a place, typically a building) empty or uninhabited, without intending to return : derelict houses were abandoned.
• leave (something, typically a vehicle or a vessel) decisively, esp. as an act of survival : he abandoned his vehicle and tried to flee on foot.
• ( abandon someone/something to) condemn someone or something to (a specified fate) by ceasing to take an interest in or look after them : it was an attempt to persuade businesses not to abandon the area to inner-city deprivation.
3 ( abandon oneself to) allow onself to indulge in (a desire or impulse) : abandoning herself to moony fantasies.

It sounds like abandonment to me.

abandon |əˈbandən|
verb [ trans. ]It sounds like abandonment to me.


This is the legal board - here's the legal definition:

"In the case of children, abandonment is the willful forsaking or forgoing of parental duties. Desertion as a legal concept, is similar in this respect, although broader in scope, covering both real and constructive situations; abandonment is generally seen as involving a specific and tangible forsaking or forgoing.

Property That Can Be types of personal property—such as personal and household items—contracts, copyrights, inventions, and Patents can be abandoned. Certain rights and interests in real property, such as easements and leases, may also be abandoned. Suppose a ranch owner, for example, gives a shepherd an easement to use a path on her property so that the sheep can get to a watering hole. The shepherd later sells his flock and moves out of the state, never intending to return. This conduct demonstrates that the shepherd has abandoned the easement, since he stopped using the path and intends never to use it again. Ownership of real property cannot be obtained because someone else abandoned it but may be gained through Adverse Possession.

Elements of AbandonmentTwo things must occur for property to be abandoned: (1) an act by the owner that clearly shows that he or she has given up rights to the property; and (2) an intention that demonstrates that the owner has knowingly relinquished control over it.

Some clear action must be taken to indicate that the owner no longer wants his or her property. Any act is sufficient as long as the property is left free and open to anyone who comes along to claim it. Inaction—that is, failure to do something with the property or nonuse of it—is not enough to demonstrate that the owner has relinquished rights to the property, even if such nonuse has gone on for a number of years. A farmer's failure to cultivate his or her land or a quarry owner's failure to take stone from his or her quarry, for example, does not mean that either person has abandoned interest in the property.

A person's intention to abandon his or her property may be established by express language to that effect or it may be implied from the circumstances surrounding the owner's treatment of the property, such as leaving it unguarded in a place easily accessible to the public. The passage of time, although not an element of abandonment, may illustrate a person's intention to abandon his or her property.

Parental Abandonment of ChildrenParental abandonment of children is different from other cases of abandonment in that it involves a person rather than property. Abandonment of children is a criminal Cause of Action under most state laws. In the civil context, it arises when a court decides to terminate the natural rights of the parent on the grounds of abandonment to allow Adoption.

In a criminal context, abandonment of children is defined as actually abandoning a child, or failing to provide necessities of living to a child. In California, for example, a parent is guilty of abandonment if they fail to provide "necessary clothing, food, shelter or medical attendance, or other remedial care for their child." A parent is required to accept their minor child into their home, or provide alternative shelter. Parents in California are also punished for "desertion with intent to abandon." These laws are typical of most states.

In the late 1990s, the issue of baby abandonment in the United States came to a head as a result of several high profile cases. These cases prompted 38 states to pass so-called "safe haven laws." The laws decriminalize baby abandonment by allowing mothers to leave their unharmed babies at a designated "safe." location such as a hospital, fire station, or licensed child-placing agency. The laws include a time frame, beginning from the baby's birth, in which abandonment may take place; the time frame varies from state to state, ranging from 72 hours up to one year.

In a civil context, abandonment of a child is usually ruled on by a court to facilitate an adoption. State courts employ various guidelines to determine if a child has been abandoned. In an action for adoption on the ground of abandonment, the petitioner generally must establish conduct by the child's natural parent or parents that shows neglect or disregard of parental duties, obligations, or responsibilities. They must also show an intent by the child's parent or parents to permanently avoid parental duties, obligations, or responsibilities. Some jurisdictions require an actual intention of the parents to relinquish their rights to find abandonment, but most allow a finding of abandonment regardless of whether the parents intended to extinguish their rights to the child."

YOU posted that there was no legal abandonment - "he has totally walked out. that's abandonment, maybe not in legal sense but it's still abandonment" You are arguing with yourself!

Ok let me be spacific.. We had been in court Jan 07 he filed papers for child support. After appearing in court and finding out how much he would be ordered to pay he never signed the final papers and about a month later was the last time my son ever saw him.. he moved out of state and recently moved back litteraly around the corner.. I haven't got a phone call, email. No child support order was ever made because the final papers were never signed.. So now our case is non exsistant because when you go so long its thrown out of the system.. money is not an issue to me.. Just curious were I go from here. I would like to change my sons lastname back to mine and don't know what to do..

Have you tried walking around the corner and asking him if he would allow the name change? If he really isn't interested then he shouldn't have a problem with the name change.

Um no.. Its not that easy... Hes telling people that I won't let him see him but its not true.. he's never made an attempt

Then why not go back to court for support. The judge will order support and if he dosen't pay then he will go into arreas, have his license suspended, and eventually jail time. You just have to go back to court and if he dosen't pay what is ordered then you go back again to have it enforced. The judge won't let him just not sign to get out of it. But it is your responsibility to get on top of it.

You still haven't completely explained what you want to accomplish. I know you want to change your son's name, but is that all? Anything more?

As I said, abandonment may be used as grounds to get something else done. But that's not applicable to you so far. He would have to give permission to legally change your son's name. However, you can use any name you want as long as there is no intent to defraud. So if you want to have his scholl refer to him by your name, you can, but they will still need to know his legal name.

As far as child support goes, it was YOUR choice not to pursue. Just because he refused to sign the papers doesn't get him out of his responsibility. Loads for parents would refuse to sign the papers in that case. It was up to you to pursue it in court and you dropped that ball. Maybe you had good reasons for it, but it was your inaction at fault.

You can still refile against him, but not retroactively.

I went though this with my doughter a few years back I filed abandonment went to court father never showed for court hearing everythign was ruled in my favor then I had to go to another court and file to have her last name changed wich the judge asked me why and in the end it was up to him based on what and why I wanted it changed I then had to pay a fee for this and then have papers filed with the sate and wate and also had to register her new last name with all legal documents and have everything changed over with takes a lot of time and if just one of your papers are wrong its all throwen out and if it is past the deadline you were given to get this all done then you have to go back to court to have to go through it all over again it can be a long and lengethy prosses but there is never even a guarantee that you will be able to change your child's last name it will always be up to the judge to decide and the reason your are giving him on why you want to do so and I had seen a lot of people in there that day that were denied this they don't just do it because that's what you want

i went though this with my doughter a few years back i filed abandonment went to court father never showed for court hearing everythign was ruled in my favor

I doubt if you "filed for abandonment". You may have filed for something else using abandonment as a grounds, but there is no such thing as filing for abandonment.

Ok let me be spacific.. We had been in court Jan 07 he filed papers for child support. After appearing in court and finding out how much he would be ordered to pay he never signed the final papers and about a month later was the last time my son ever saw him .. he moved out of state and recently moved back litteraly around the corner.. I havent got a phone call, email. No child support order was ever made due to the fact that the final papers were never signed.. So now our case is non exsistant because when you go so long its thrown out of the system.. money is not an issue to me.. Just curious were I go from here. I would like to change my sons lastname back to mine and dont know what to do..
I am astounded why the Court did not enact Default order.

I am astounded why the Court did not enact Default order.

I suspect, because the OP never asked for one. She just dropped action and didn't pursue it.

Two simple questions:
1.Does he have visitation rights?
2.Is he required by order to pay child support?
If your answer is NO to both the questions,you do not have rights to file in court for child abandonment.
I agree with Scott -Abandonment of a child is leaving a child totally unsupervised for a period. This is a criminal charge.

The reasaons behind why I want to change his last name is he had mine first.. And its going on 2 years without seeing his biological father and I have taken care of him for all this time without any help from him.. He obviously doesn't want to have him in his life and all he has is his lastname.. My family has been their since day one.. I feel that it should be a part of him to carry on in his life.. he's not bennifiting from the last name he has.. And I would like to also know that in 2 more years he can't just walk back in his life and do this down the road to him again.. My son is going through "Trama" according to his therepist that he see's once a week.. Hes only 5 and Is having a hard time dealing with what is going on.. My son is my life and Im trying to help him adjust to this new lifestyle.. And I don't think I was in the wrong on not pursuing it.. He had a lawyer I didn't.. Why didn't his lawyer push the issue? U think if you can pay your lawyer $200.00 an hour and live a luxurous lifesyle you could afford to help with your child.. Money isnot an issue though.. Please understand that.. Its never been about the money.. Why does eveyone push the issue for money..

U think if you can pay your lawyer $200.00 an hour and live a luxurous lifesyle you could afford to help with your child.. Money isnot an issue though.. Please understand that.. Its never been about the money.. Why does eveyone push the issue for money..


I will say this as gently and non-judgmentally as possible - because you have raised the money issue - right here. He pays his attorney $200 an hour (which, in my area, is ridiculously low) and lives a luxurious lifestyle but can't afford to help with the child.

But money is not an issue (for you) - ?

I think somewhere deep down inside it is an issue for you and people pick up on that.

But that's not the original question - the question is abandonment.

I doubt if you "filed for abandonment". You may have filed for something else using abandonment as a grounds, but there is no such thing as filing for abandonment.


Questions on this same thing have been asked before, never answered.

Keri,
As I said in an earlier post, you may have had good reasons for not pursuing the child support. Since I don't know your financial situation, I can't say whether it was the right decision or not. I will say that the decision should have been made with the best interests of the child in mind. If getting suport would have made the child's life easier, that should have been your primary consideration.

So, lets say, that money was not an issue, that you have sufficient resources to raise the child without needing support from the father. So the next thing is the name change. This has already been answered. You are unlikely to get a legal name change without the father's consent, but you can have him use your name for most things.

Now you said this in your last post; "And I would like to also know that in 2 more years he can't just walk back in his life and do this down the road to him again.." So, essentially, you want to terminate his rights. But, if you read the hundreds of other threads in this forum that all deal with terminating rights you will see its unlikely to happen. Generally courts will only grant a TPR to clear the way for adoption or if the parent represents a danger to the child.

If money isn't an issue then why didn't you have a lawyer? The reason support is pushed is because it's really the only thing you can do and if you don't need the money then open a savings account for your kid to use for college! You can't have his rights terminated, you will need his permission to change the name. If he just lives around the corner you can go talk to him and ask him (with out the child being present) if he does want to part of his life. You said in an earlier post that he tells everyone that you won't let him see the kid so you could get that cleared up for yourself.

[QUOTE=meagank disagrees: disagree i went though this with my doughter and after 2 years no contact from her father the court ruled abandonment and he lost all rights to her and i was able to change her last name[/QUOTE]


No one on this board has ever heard of this - please post more info, including the State and circumstances.

Abandonment is a criminal charge, as Scott has said.

I have no trouble with your "doughter's" last name being changed if he was served with notice and didn't appear. I don't understand how the Court stripped him permanently of all rights - and neither does anyone else.

Most important - what State?

Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Texas, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia, and Wyoming and the District of Columbia include abandonment in their definition of abuse or neglect.Approximately 13 States/i.e.Arizona, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Maine, Montana, New Hampshire, New Mexico, New York, North Dakota, Ohio, and South Carolina/Guam, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands provide separate definitions for establishing abandonment.

Michigan does not have child abandonment definition.

Department of Human Services policies on child abuse and neglect reflect laws of the state of Michigan, enacted by the state Legislature to safeguard children.

In Michigan, the Department of Human Services is responsible for investigating reports of suspected child abuse and neglect. Michigan's Child Protection Law defines child abuse and neglect as harm or threatened harm to a child's health or welfare by a parent, legal guardian or any other person responsible for the child's health or welfare.
Termination of parental rights

Under state law in certain egregious cases, the DHS must file a petition for termination of parental rights at the same time a request to remove a child from his or her home is made. Michigan law defines the egregious cases to include the following:
CHILD PROTECTION LAW (EXCERPT)
Act 238 of 1975
722.638 Submission of petition for authorization under MCL 712A.2; conditions; request for termination of parental rights; conference.
* Abandonment of a young child.
* Criminal sexual conduct involving penetration, attempted penetration, or assault with intent to penetrate.
* Battering, torture, or other severe physical abuse.
* Loss of impairment of an organ or limb.
* Life threatening injury.
* Murder or attempted murder.

For a parent to use corporal punishment on their child is not a violation of state law. It becomes a matter of abuse if and when an injury occurs.

this is for JudyKayTee yes the court issued adbament in my case of his doughter we were married he left the counrty i hired a lawyer and went to court and was gratned full custdy of my doughter and the court determined this was adbandmint and revoked all his rights and he can ot see her or have any kind contat with her till she is 21 years of age
In my view the father of OP's child has never had neither rights nor obligations.
By the way what does "adbandmint" mean?

Abandonment may be used as grounds to achieve something else, like a divorce or termination of parental rights. But there is little value in using it that way.
Correct! No one may be charged with child abandonment if he/she does not have any rights and obligations.

this is for JudyKayTee yes the court issued adbament in my case of his doughter we were married he left the counrty i hired a lawyer and went to court and was gratned full custdy of my doughter and the court determined this was adbandmint and revoked all his rights and he can ot see her or have any kind contat with her till she is 21 years of age


He didn't lose all rights and he wasn't stripped of being her father. He can't see her until she's of legal age.

disagree i went though this with my doughter and after 2 years no contact from her father the court ruled abandonment and he lost all rights to her and i was able to change her last name
Make me laugh!
The Court CANNOT rule abandonment.The judge can rule TPR on the abandonment ground

this is for JudyKayTee yes the court issued adbament in my case of his doughter we were married he left the counrty i hired a lawyer and went to court and was gratned full custdy of my doughter and the court determined this was adbandmint and revoked all his rights and he can ot see her or have any kind contat with her till she is 21 years of age

I'm afraid you are not understanding what we are saying. You have to remember that this is a legal board and our answers have to comply with existing statutes.

I have no doubt that the judge said to you that the father abandoned the kids so I'm granting you full custody. The judge may even have terminated his rights becaused of that. But that's the point. The judge USED abandonment to justify his rullings. So abandonment was the GROUNDS for granting you custody and terminating his rights. Your lawyer filed a petition to grant you custody and terminate his rights. He did NOT file a petition to charge him with abandonment because there is no such thing in a case like this.

Again, remember that this is a legal board and answers have to comply with the law. The law can be very specific about things.

But that's the point. the judge USED abandonment to justify his rullings. So abandonment was the GROUNDS for granting you custody and terminating his rights. Your lawyer filed a petition to grant you custody and terminate his rights. He did NOT file a petition to charge him with abandonment because there is no such thing in a case like this.

Again, remember that this is a legal board and answers have to comply with the law. The law can be very specific about things.
Exactly!

He didn't lose all rights and he wasn't stripped of being her father. He can't see her until she's of legal age.
OK I don't know why you are saying He didn't lose all rights and he wasn't stripped of being her father. He can't see her until she's of legal age this makes no sense. The judge told me he has no legal rights to her at all what so ever and he has had all legal rights taken away from him it even states this in my papers I have that are sighend by the judge the judge put in there he may have contact with her at the age of 21 if she agrees and wants to get to know him but other then that he has no legal right to her at all

If there is a condition like that (that he has to wait until she's legal age) then he wasn't stripped of his rights. A TPR is generally a total, irrevocable loss of rights.

If there is a condition like that (that he has to wait until she's legal age) then he wasn't stripped of his rights. A TPR is generally a total, irrevocable loss of rights.


I think we are wasting our breath here - time to close the thread - ?

I think you all are reading someone else's page because I see a lot of my daughter this my daughter that.. I don't have a girl I have a boy and never filed anything just curious to know what happens at this point.. Obviously you just don't understand so leave it at that.. When you have a child that is being treated the way my son is.. then you'll understand why I have so many questions and no answers..

I think you all are reading someone elses page because i see alot of my daughter this my daughter that.. i dont have a girl i have a boy and never filed anything just curious to know what happens at this point.. Obviously you just dont understand so leave it at that.. When you have a child that is being treated the way my son is.. then you'll understand why I have so many questions and no answers..



Doesn't matter if your minor child is male or female.

You did get answers - you cannot change the child's name without the father's permission. You could ask him for permission or take him to Court.

Concerning abandonment (and I'm quoting Scottgem): "This appears to be a common misconception. Abandonment of a child is leaving a child totally unsupervised for a period of time. This is a criminal charge. Abandonment may be used as grounds to achieve something else, like a divorce or termination of parental rights. But there is little value in using it that way."

GV70 even quoted the law, directly quoted the applicable Statute.

As far as your son being treated this way - please don't assume no one has ever been in your shoes or that "we" don't understand. Unfortunately, the law is the law and nothing changes that - if your ex has abused the child in some way or left him (literally) uncared for at a bus stop, by all means file abandonment charges. But I don't see that that is what happened.

I do not believe the Court will entertain an action to strip your ex of his rights - but you can always try.

I absolutely agree this thread turned into a lot of good advice, bad advice, fighting over the advice, which certainly doesn't help you and must be very frustrating. However, the answer was given in the first couple of posts, as explained above.

What other questions to you have?

Original poster will not accept legal correct answers, you can take a horse to water but you can not make them drink, may want to drown them but can't make them drink

Thread closed

I think you all are reading someone elses page because i see alot of my daughter this my daughter that.. i dont have a girl i have a boy and never filed anything just curious to know what happens at this point.. Obviously you just dont understand so leave it at that.. When you have a child that is being treated the way my son is.. then you'll understand why I have so many questions and no answers..

Keri,
I'm sorry, but sometimes threads do go off on a tangent. We try to avoid it, but it happens. In this case, the reference to a daughter started because someone tried to give you advice by relating her experience with her daughter. Unfortunately, her advice was not entirely accurate and we had to correct her mistaken impression.

But I think you need to read the answers more carefully. We do understand your situation and you have been given the correct advice by a few of us.

Please reread the posts directed at you and not the sidebars.