My Ceiling fan is acting up in a strange way. It is a 9 month old Harbor Breeze from Lowe's. It recently broke. Now it only functions in one direction. And in that direction it only functions at much lower speeds than usual (there are still 3 speeds but each speed is about 1/3 it's original functioning speed). When the fan is trying to spin I can hear the motor trying to spin it (that normal higher pitch motor sound).

When it broke I heard what sounded like 3 clicking sounds before High speed slowed to 1/3 high speed. Later that night I pulled the speed cord (HARD) several times and it started working for 30 minutes until the clicking happened again and it slowed again.

I thought it was the Cap so I called "Litex" (they make the fan) and got a replacement Cap. Installed it. Functions the same. Is this a definite motor problem? Is this a switch problem (I doubt it since the switch still toggles by the way the 3 speeds and off).

Any help is appreciated.
-Kevin

Edit: Other possibly useful info:
-the fan is wired to 3 wall switches (one for light, one for fan(on/off), one other for direction) (I don't know how the 3 switches connect to this fan via the connections below?)
-this is a remote fan but I don't have the remote module connected (never did)
-this fan has 2 pull chains for speed and light (& one 2 position switch for direction)
-today I checked the connections and redid the wire nutting (I did not change the wiring, just redid the nutting)
Wiring is: house red-> fan black
House white -> fan white
House black -> fan blue
House ground -> fan ground

Again this fan worked for 8 months before crapping out. Thanks in advance.

Did you determine anything with fan speed switch, replacement has to have exact switching, several types.
Check direction switch. It just basically swaps 2 wires for reverse.

Usually this means the fan switch has gone bad. I assume no-one knocked into the fan such that the moving part of the motor is now physically touching the stationary part

Fan was not knocked at any time to harm the motor.

The pull chain switch still works in one direction though... i.e.. It toggles through the speeds and then to off (the speeds are wrong though (much slower)). When I switch the direction switch on the fan (the 2 position switch) the pull chain appears to still engage the motor (I hear the hum)... just no spinning at any speed.

I believe that all faults with this fan occurred simultaneously. Is there no one fault that is a catch-all for these symptoms?

Thanks again for the fast replies
-kevin

What type of switches do you have controlling the fan/light (no dinners for the fan rite), and are you sure you have the remote completely disconnected? Something doesn't sound rite.:confused:

I still think it's the switch or switches. Does this fan also have a multiple position wall switch-those are famous for going bad?

I don't understand how a fan can be wired to a reverse wall switch unless it is part of an RF control set.

The symptons you described are that of a bad capacitor. You say they sent you a new capacitor. Are you sure you wired it in right?

Who installed the fan and the three switch setup?

Hello gents :)

In response:
No dimmers and I'm positive that the remote module isn't in there (it's on a different fan mounted in a different room with a raised ceiling)

The fan is wired to 3 (very common) flip (on/off) wall switches... 2 are on the same plate, one is separate.

I'm positive that they sent me the right capacitor.. I just compared them again... and I'm sure that I soldered it correctly. I installed the fan myself by removing the older fan and connecting the wiring just like the old fan. And I don't know what you mean by an "RF control set", what would the reverse wall switch have to do with an RF unit? I don't know how the reverse wall switch works but I assume that it would just reverse the voltage like the switch on the fan does?

Also after reading online I assumed it was a bad cap, but the cap showed no signs of warping (like I would expect)... the fan just clicked a couple of times and then slowed, then after some hard pull switch pulls (a day or 2 later) worked for about 30 minutes then clicked and slowed again

Any other information I can offer... cause I'm clueless? Is it time to borrow a multimeter from work and check the voltage up there?

I disconnected and toyed with the pull chain switch... to no avail (I didn't expect anything since it does seem to toggle like it's supposed to)

You didn't answer my most important question:


Who installed the fan and the three switch setup?

A hard wired wall mounted reverse switch is a custom wiring job, the ceiling fan would have had to have been heavily modified, and it will be VERY difficult to troubleshoot from online.

Hmm... I didn't know this

I installed the new fan using the setup of the old fan as my standard. I don't know who did the wiring for the fan, installed the switches, or setup the original old fan. I'm new the this house as of a year and a half ago.

If you think the wiring was bad, how come this setup worked so well for 8 months before breaking?

I may not understand your wiring setup completely. Pictures would help a lot-- of the fan and of the switches, as well as anything you've opened up and any wires currently exposed.

I think that I'll check the voltage up there after work tomorrow, and report back. Are you pretty confident that it's a wiring problem and not a fault of the fan? I heard a popping/clicking come from the fan when it broke... what part would have broken within the fan if not the cap? Fuse or something else as a result of bad wiring?

All I know about the fan wiring I already reported
Wiring is: house red-> fan black
House white -> fan white
House black -> fan blue
House ground -> fan ground

I know that tells you nothing about the wall switches though... I just took off the wall switch plates for the first time... and I'm officially over my head :) way too many wires in there for me to manage. Might look for disconnections or shorts in there tomorrow when I turn the circuit off... getting to late for that right now. Thanks for your help tonight... would rather spend a couple of hours working on this problem than talk to Litex again.

I have seen fans where the wire touch the motor will produce a clicking sound, wonder if it caught and pulled something undone, this is a possibility if it has the very large canopy, a ceiling hugger.

Ok.. I'll crack open the fan and take a look at the motor too... it's kind of a fun project. I just hope that I can fix it without spending too much $$$

The fan is very close to the ceiling by the way

This is going to sound really dumb, but verify you are actually getting 120 volts at the fan.
You should not have to go into the regular switch box in the wall; I was referring to an add-on "speed controller" you stick on the wall. Usually, when the switch goes bad it is the motor that makes the noise.
A wire up in the fan's ceiling box that got cut may divert some supply voltage elsewhere-such as ground.
Again, there should be no need to go into the house wiring at the home's switch box

I think that I'll check the voltage up there after work tomorrow, and report back. Are you pretty confident that it's a wiring problem and not a fault of the fan? I heard a popping/clicking come from the fan when it broke .... what part would have broken within the fan if not the cap? Fuse or something else as a result of bad wiring?

All i know about the fan wiring i already reported
wiring is: house red-> fan black
house white -> fan white
house black -> fan blue
house ground -> fan ground

I know that tells you nothing about the wall switches though...i just took off the wall switch plates for the first time.... and I'm officially over my head :) way too many wires in there for me to manage. might look for disconnections or shorts in there tomorrow when I turn the circuit off... getting to late for that right now. Thanks for your help tonight... would rather spend a couple of hours working on this problem than talk to Litex again.

The wiring you describe, I don't see how you would be able to reverse the fan from the wall.

I rarely used the reverse wall switch.. (once or twice since the fan was installed)... I believe that it worked. I would shut off the fan. Stop the blades. Flip the reverse wall switch and turn the fan back on. To the best of my memory it turned the opposite direction.

Now that I think of it... currently the fan (in it's broken state) only works in one of the possible four direction settings... i.e..
Wall direction switch on, fan direction switch counterclockwise: fan spins (but very slowly)
Wall direction switch on, fan direction switch clockwise: fan does not spin
Wall direction switch off, fan direction switch counterclockwise: fan does not spins
Wall direction switch off, fan direction switch clockwise: fan does not spin

This might indicate that the wall switch never worked correctly and you very well might be right... all I can say for sure is that it doesn't work now

I will check the voltage up at the fan tonight, I will toggle the wall direction switch as well remeasure and report my results

We need: 1. pictures of the switches and wiring at the switches, and wiring at the fan
2. A description of all the wires at the ceiling
3. A description of all the wires at the switches and how the switches are wired.

Ok, so I have a matrix of voltages I took after disconnecting my fan... which I thought might be very helpful. It appears as though the direction switch does nothing like "celingfanrepair" seemed to know even though I was telling him otherwise (sorry about that)

I have 3 wall switches: Direction (D), Fan(F) and Light (L) and 3 wires coming from my ceiling Red (R), White (W) and Black (B) (white appears to be common so I won't list it)

D | F | L | R | B
0 | 0 | 0 | 31 | 120
0 | 0 | 1 | 11 | 40
0 | 1 | 0 | 120 | 120
0 | 1 | 1 | 120 | 48
1 | 0 | 0 | 30 | 120
1 | 0 | 1 | 12 | 40
1 | 1 | 0 | 120 | 120
1 | 1 | 1 | 120 | 49

Also, a colleague at work said that he's heard about Relays getting arched and then oxidizing and creating their own internal resistance. He suggested that this may happen to the direction switch on the fan (possibly explaining too much resistance in one direction and a no connection in the other direction) Do you all think that this has any merit (before I tear the direction switch apart in futile effort)?

Thanks again for your in depth help. I really do appreciate it. I know little about home wiring, but I took these reading with a Fluke set to V-AC with the range set all the way up.

Is the direction switch, a relay or a switch? If a switch, with power off, switch back and forth to maybe improve the contacts.
If it is a relay, and has 6 wires, 2 may be for the coil, and the 2 pair are swapped for direction, if you have the relay switching diagram on side(hopefully), or can physically see the switching, just bypass relay, see if it runs one direction, and then swap those 2 wires with the other wires, if it runs the other direction in all speeds, it would most likey be the relay.

Strat, he clearly has non standard wiring, and he attempted to wire a new fan in a standard fashion to the non-standard wiring. This is the root of the issue.

I still need what I asked for in my last post.

Your matrix isn't helpful without knowing what wires they correspond to.

Ok.

Sounds like a plan to me... I'll take some photos of the wall switches tomorrow after work.

I was hoping that the matrix would be good enough, but I guess more info on the wall switches is needed. Looking at the voltages, you guys think that fan is operating fine? Just the wall switches are miswired? Or what part of the fan broke as a result of the miswiring?

also, the direction switch has 6 wires coming out of it. Does this mean for certain it's a relay and not a switch?

It's a switch.

I have no idea from the matrix since I have no idea what the voltages correspond to.

If you want to test the fan to see if it's the problem, remove it from the ceiling, wire it to an extension cord, and plug it in to a working outlet.

Even if the fan is messed up it could be because of the wiring still. The problem is not necessarily the same thing as the cause.

Ok... I'm back. Sorry about the delay. I really hope someone will still help me. I have pictures of my wall switches.

I don't know much about wiring so all I can really do is post the photos and ask for your help. As for the ceiling box... there is simply a red wire, a black wire, a white wire, and the unshielded copper wire.

Please take a look and give me a hint as how I can rewire this so that my next fan doesn't break on me.

CeilingFanRepair: I did plug my fan into a wall outlet via an extension cord and it still operates at the slower speeds like when mounted on my ceiling. I guess this means the bad wall switch wiring broke the fan somehow. (though I know it didn't break the cap since I got a replacement from Litex and I soldered it in myself)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31126550@N08/2907772575/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31126550@N08/2908618840/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31126550@N08/2908618808/



Thanks in advance for your help.
-Kevin

shimer45, That's odd, never seen a direction switch done with single pole contacts. If so, it could energize a relay to do the multiple wire switching.
With the direction switch that accessible, I could see other people, switch quickly/unknowing and hurt the fan. If the fan is nice/expensive, we will try to help.
A new Fan might be nice? Good Luck

Stratmando,
I'm not certain the Direction Switch on the wall ever worked. The fan I installed broke after 9 months so I may have switched the direction switch once (maybe).

CeilingFanRepair seemed to think that it never worked and after I took voltage measurements at the Ceiling Fan box, my measurements seemed to confirm that toggling that particular switch didn't alter any of the voltages up there.

The matrix of voltage measurements also confirmed that there is something funny going on with the wiring at my wall switches. I posted the matrix of voltage measurements at the ceiling fan box earlier in the thread.

I'm conceding that I need a new fan... I just want to fix the wiring so this doesn't happen again.

Thanks for you help
-Kevin

We also need pictures of the wiring at the ceiling :)

Ok. I took the photos at lunch. Here they are. One with flash and one without. It's a little difficult to see up there, but the copper and the Green wire are nutted together and connect to the ceiling mount that came with the fan.

switches 013 on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/31126550@N08/2910281258/)

switches 012 on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/31126550@N08/2909433479/)

Thanks again for your help,
-Kevin

I only see three wires-- black red white-- besides ground.

Yeah. That's all there is.

And in my little matrix of voltages only the Red and the Black changed upon toggling of the 3 wall switches (direction, fan light, fan on/off).

The white was steady between 0 and 1 volt.

What should there be up there?

It only takes 2 switches to control 3 wires. You should get two voltages from each wire: 120vAC or 0. You need to trace this wiring and figure out where it's going.

So what I need to do:

-Make sure the direction switch is out of the wall circuit.
-Configure the 2 switches (referencing the fan light and fan on/off) so that toggling the 2 wall switches will change the Red from 0<->120 and the Black from 0<->120
-Confirm that the white wire always stays at 0

Before hooking anything up to the ceiling box

Right?
-Kevin

Yes!

BTW the 1v readings on the white wires aren't important.