This question could be posted just about anywhere under "Law" but since it's specifically about my kids' attorney, I'm posting here.

My kids were appointed an attorney during our custody litigation. The attorney was given a $1000 retainer at the beginning and about 6 weeks into litigation, she asked each parent to contribute another $500. The day I got the letter requesting the deposit through my attorney, my current husband was hit on his motorcycle. My attentions shifted to caring for my husband and I forgot to make the deposit until a few weeks later. The attorney took issue with it and snapped at my attorney when he asked her for an update, stating that I had not contributed the $500 she requested. My attorney relayed the kids' attorney's message to me and I immediately phoned her office and used my CC to make the payment and apologized for the delay. I only met with this woman once and my attorney had received no input from her for weeks. So I asked my attorney if it would be appropriate for me to request a detailed billing statement from the kids' attorney. He replied and said that this attorney said she would only provide billing details through our respective attorneys and not directly. My attorney thought this was silly but made the request on my behalf. He asked again two weeks ago and still... no statement.

So what's a reasonable amount of time to expect this attorney to comply with the request before filing a complaint with the State Bar?

This question could be posted just about anywhere under "Law" but since it's specifically about my kids' attorney, I'm posting here.

My kids were appointed an attorney during our custody litigation. The attorney was given a $1000 retainer at the beginning and about 6 weeks into litigation, she asked each parent to contribute another $500. The day I got the letter requesting the deposit through my attorney, my current husband was hit on his motorcycle. My attentions shifted to caring for my husband and I forgot to make the deposit until a few weeks later. The attorney took issue with it and snapped at my attorney when he asked her for an update, stating that I had not contributed the $500 she requested. My attorney relayed the kids' attorney's message to me and I immediately phoned her office and used my CC to make the payment and apologized for the delay. I only met with this woman once and my attorney had received no input from her for weeks. So I asked my attorney if it would be appropriate for me to request a detailed billing statement from the kids' attorney. He replied and said that this attorney said she would only provide billing details through our respective attorneys and not directly. My attorney thought this was silly but made the request on my behalf. He asked again two weeks ago and still... no statement.

So what's a reasonable amount of time to expect this attorney to comply with the request before filing a complaint with the State Bar?



Honestly, I think it's ridiculous to file a complaint with the Bar Association, quite frankly. You made your payment a "few weeks late" because you shifted your attention.

Maybe she has other clients she's representing and she's shifted her attention.

I don't see that she went back to Court and reported you for non compliance. Give her the same courtesy.

In my area once you have an Attorney EVERYTHING goes through that Attorney and nothing comes directly to you.

I realize you are having problems with custody - from your other threads - but I think blaming the Attorney is not the way to go.

Judy - thanks for your reply. I'm not suggesting that I'm running to the bar to complain - I'm asking how many times do I ask before requesting assistance? Further, when I was late with my payment, she sent no reminder until mentioning it to my attorney, at which time I paid it immediately. He has asked her twice now - maybe even three times and she has made no comment in any of her replies that address his request. Yes - I am very angry with this attorney. She met me once and spent much more time with my ex, who was always hovering around the kids during their visits with her. She based her opinion on me on heresay so how else should I feel? My ex shared HIS legal matters directly with the children, which further pitted them against me - saying I'd filed to have him "questioned" when I requested a deposition. Ex also blatantly lied during deposition and on the stand in the courtroom, so one can only assume he lied to the kids' attorney. Since the kids wouldn't testify against, him - why shouldn't he get away with lying?

Since I'm paying for half of my children's attorney fees, I think I'm entitled to a detailed billing statement within a reasonable period. So perhaps I should rephrase my question: In what period is an attorney REQUIRED to provide a detailed billing statement once it's been requested?

Judy - thanks for your reply. I'm not suggesting that I'm running to the bar to complain - I'm asking how many times do I ask before requesting assistance? Further, when I was late with my payment, she sent no reminder until mentioning it to my attorney, at which time I paid it immediately. He has asked her twice now - maybe even three times and she has made no comment in any of her replies that address his request. Yes - I am very angry with this attorney. She met me once and spent much more time with my ex, who was always hovering around the kids during their visits with her. She based her opinion on me on heresay so how else should I feel? My ex shared HIS legal matters directly with the children, which further pitted them against me - saying I'd filed to have him "questioned" when I requested a deposition. Ex also blatantly lied during deposition and on the stand in the courtroom, so one can only assume he lied to the kids' attorney. Since the kids wouldn't testify against, him - why shouldn't he get away with lying?

Since I'm paying for half of my children's attorney fees, I think I'm entitled to a detailed billing statement within a reasonable period of time. So perhaps I should rephrase my question: In what period of time is an attorney REQUIRED to provide a detailed billing statement once it's been requested?




There is no required time frame - I am a little confused. You were ordered to pay and agreed to pay a bill which you hadn't seen? Where is your Attorney during all of this?

If you are that unhappy, report her to the Bar. I don't think she's in violation; she may or may not be but you were unhappy with her so go ahead.

How you should or shouldn't feel is not a legal question - I understand you are upset. I understand you've walked a long road and it didn't end well for you. You are asking me for what should or shouldn'd happen and I can only address legally what has and probably will happen.

But the rest of this - how you should or shouldn't feel, what people should or shouldn't get away with - has nothing to do with the legality of the various issues you have raised.

There is no required time frame - I am a little confused. You were ordered to pay and agreed to pay a bill which you hadn't seen? Where is your Attorney during all of this?

If you are that unhappy, report her to the Bar. I don't think she's in violation; she may or may not be but you were unhappy with her so go ahead.

How you should or shouldn't feel is not a legal question - I understand you are upset. I understand you've walked a long road and it didn't end well for you. You are asking me for what should or shouldn'd happen and I can only address legally what has and probably will happen.

But the rest of this - how you should or shouldn't feel, what people should or shouldn't get away with - has nothing to do with the legality of the various issues you have raised.

Correct - I have never seen a bill. A letter was sent to my attorney from the children's attorney, requesting that $500 be deposited to the retainer. I intended on sending a check the next day, but that very evening, my husband was injured in a motorcycle accident, so of course - I was distraught by this and the check slipped my mind over the next couple of weeks. I made the deposit as soon as my attorney attorney informed me there'd been an inquiry. At that time, I asked my attorney to request the billing statement and he has since made at least one other inquiry. She simply has not acknowledged the requests.

Correct - I have never seen a bill. A letter was sent to my attorney from the children's attorney, requesting that $500 be deposited to the retainer. I intended on sending a check the next day, but that very evening, my husband was injured in a motorcycle accident, so of course - I was distraught by this and the check slipped my mind over the next couple of weeks. I made the deposit as soon as my attorney attorney informed me there'd been an inquiry. At that time, I asked my attorney to request the billing statement and he has since made at least one other inquiry. She simply has not acknowledged the requests.



I'd give the Attorney as much time as she gave you and then if there's no response I would file a complaint.

Seems the only fair way to handle it -

Thanks - that sounds reasonable.

Thanks - that sounds reasonable.


I must be on Plant Zippy today - :)

I'd write her a letter of demand, sort of a "Dear X. I would appreciate an itemized statement of the services you rendered in connection with your representation of x and x.

Your early response would be appreciated and a response within 10 days would be most helpful."

Then bite your tongue before you write down any more and mail it. I'd then give her 10 days.

I would think in most cases the longest it should take is 1 billing cycle. And that's up to the lawyer doing the billing as to how long that is. Why did your children need a lawyer ? What under the law were they trying to perform ?

Was this attorney "for the children" as you put it a guardian ad litem for the children? I can't see the children having their own attorney as you put it, but a guardian ad litem. Usually the guardian ad litem will send the judge a detailed report of their findings with a copy of this report being given to your attorney. I'd ask your attorney for a copy of this report or the opportunity to read it in his office if you can't be sent a copy. Usually for the amount of money that you paid and your ex paid you'll get something like a 5-10 page report of her findings about the children, the home situation, etc. and her recommendations to the Judge. I've never actually remember seeing a for real "statement" or accounting for their services rendered that was truly itemized. Maybe you'll be fortunate to actually get a for real bill from her, maybe not.

Was this attorney "for the children" as you put it a guardian ad litem for the children? I can't see the children having their own attorney as you put it, but a guardian ad litem. Usually the guardian ad litem will send the judge a detailed report of their findings with a copy of this report being given to your attorney. I'd ask your attorney for a copy of this report or the opportunity to read it in his office if you can't be sent a copy. Usually for the amount of money that you paid and your ex paid you'll get something like a 5-10 page report of her findings about the children, the home situation, etc. and her recommendations to the Judge. I've never actually remember seeing a for real "statement" or accounting for their services rendered that was truly itemized. Maybe you'll be fortunate to actually get a for real bill from her, maybe not.

They (the courts or my attorney) never referred to this attorney as a guardian ad litem. She was their "attorney" as I read every document referencing her role. My children are 14 and 16 and when I met this attorney, she specifically told me that her role was not to make any recommendations to the court; she could only serve as a voice for the children and express their wishes. She never visited either home (if she had - she would have screamed at the condition of ex's home) and she never did an 'evaluation' such as a custodial study case worker would have done. However, the day before the hearing, she was told by my ex's attorney that MY attorney was not going to allow her to use hearsay. We filed a motion to disallow hearsay and offered to meet with her and the children prior to the hearing to stipulate to their wishes. She refused and said if we disallowed her hearsay, she was left with no other choice than to put the children on the stand. Then she chastised me in the hearing for filing the motion. She really is in the wrong business. She was trying to play the role of psychologist but she does not have the education to back that role.

I've been told (by a friend who works at a legal firm) that by law, attorneys must be able to produce a detailed billing statement upon request. Just like other jobs that bill by the 'project', attorneys must keep a detailed record of their time each day. It cannot be entered at a later date, based on recollection.

I do not know the state of the OP, but in California, a judge can and will appoint a child or children in a custody matter their own attorney when it is deemed necessary (long divorce, parents can't even get along in courtroom, etc) They actually represent the child or children in the matter and report to the court their findings after interviewing each parent, neighbors, co-workers, etc... most importantly the child or children. They are a voice for the child or children when the courts finds it necessary. They stay appointed as long as the court deems it necessary and are there the ensure the best interest of the child or children. They are unbiased, like mediators are (although sometimes parents have a hard time seeing that). (no offense intend to MomWontGiveUp, just my firsthand knowledge of how it works in my area of the world)

As for getting a bill, unless you want to have extra time added to it for a bill outside of the normal billing statement time, I would relax and wait to see it when the attorney sends out her bills. You can specifically request to see an itemized copy of the bill at the time of the billing cycle end, but I know of attorneys who use this as an excuse to add extra fees onto a bill if demanded otherwise as it time taken away from the regular scheduled work of the attorney and office staff.

I do not know the state of the OP, but in California, a judge can and will appoint a child or children in a custody matter their own attorney when it is deemed necessary (long divorce, parents can't even get along in courtroom, etc) They actually represent the child or children in the matter and report to the court their findings after interviewing each parent, neighbors, co-workers, etc... most importantly the child or children. They are a voice for the child or children when the courts finds it necessary. They stay appointed as long as the court deems it necessary and are there the ensure the best interest of the child or children. They are unbiased, like mediators are (although sometimes parents have a hard time seeing that). (no offense intend to MomWontGiveUp, just my firsthand knowledge of how it works in my area of the world)

As for getting a bill, unless you want to have extra time added to it for a bill outside of the normal billing statement time, I would relax and wait to see it when the attorney sends out her bills. You can specifically request to see an itemized copy of the bill at the time of the billing cycle end, but I know of attorneys who use this as an excuse to add extra fees onto a bill if demanded otherwise as it time taken away from the regular scheduled work of the attorney and office staff.



Preparing bills is the job of the Attorney and office staff, is their scheduled work. A charge to prepare a bill SHOULD be reported to the Bar.

Everything is on computer - this is not brain surgery, it's running an up-to-date printout. I am not aware of anyone who sits with pencil and paper and works out a bill.

Momwhowontgiveup - I have read all of your posts and I am confused about your situation. Why was there a change of custody with your children in the first place? You only go on and on about how your ex is unstable, etc. was unemployed, etc. You don't give us here at AMHD any information about why you would be the better parent. Are you employed or stay at home? Were you always a stay at home mom? Do you have emotional issues that require you to take medicine and see a doctor for this?

You give me the impression that you are overreaching in a lot of areas - such as the topic of this post about a detailed accounting of the children's attorney. Who wanted the children to have their own attorney in the first place? Did the Court order this?

As I had posted earlier, I was familiar with guardian ad litems for children during divorce and post divorce custody proceedings. The ones that I had any dealings with were quite fair in their assessments. I am not familiar at all with what role this attorney is playing in the custody process.

There must have been some pretty fancy legal tapdancing for your ex to get the children's full custody. Something is definitely wrong with this picture here. You can't be that wonderful and great for a Judge to strip you of 50/50 custody. I'm really confused here. Maybe you would like to enlighten us here about this aspect of your case. You are good at pointing out other people's shortcomings such as the Judge being a recovered alcoholic, etc. but we have yet to hear about your human side in all of this.

The attorney for the children will give you a detailed bill sooner or later. Probably at the end of the hearing is my guess.

Momwhowontgiveup - I have read all of your posts and I am confused about your situation. Why was there a change of custody with your children in the first place? You only go on and on about how your ex is unstable, etc., was unemployed, etc. You don't give us here at AMHD any information about why you would be the better parent. Are you employed or stay at home? Were you always a stay at home mom? Do you have emotional issues that require you to take medicine and see a doctor for this?

You give me the impression that you are overreaching in a lot of areas - such as the topic of this post about a detailed accounting of the children's attorney. Who wanted the children to have their own attorney in the first place? Did the Court order this?

As I had posted earlier, I was familiar with guardian ad litems for children during divorce and post divorce custody proceedings. The ones that I had any dealings with were quite fair in their assessments. I am not familiar at all with what role this attorney is playing in the custody process.

There must have been some pretty fancy legal tapdancing for your ex to get the children's full custody. Something is definitely wrong with this picture here. You can't be that wonderful and great for a Judge to strip you of 50/50 custody. I'm really confused here. Maybe you would like to enlighten us here about this aspect of your case. You are good at pointing out other people's shortcomings such as the Judge being a recovered alcoholic, etc. but we have yet to hear about your human side in all of this.

The attorney for the children will give you a detailed bill sooner or later. Probably at the end of the hearing is my guess.

Fancy tapdancing is correct. I am NOT a terrible mother and I can't think of anyone in my neighborhood or children's school who would have testified to that effect. This is a difficult situation for anyone who knows me, my children or my ex to understand.

We had had a reasonably amicable divorce (well, as far as not letting it drag on). We stipulated to joint custody and 50/50 parenting time. I had to file a RO on ex at the time, because he physically restrained me and bruised my arms during the final weeks that we lived together. After that, he just kept harassing me by showing up and sorting through mail, looking at my cell phone bills, following me when it was his weekend with the children and my weekend off. The animosity has been on/off for 8 years. However, somehow we managed for the most part.

Last December, my ex checked into rehab. His parents were terrified I'd file for modification so they begged me not to - in front of my children and current husband. They said "If you don't support him through this, he's not going to make it. He won't be able to get a job or pay you child support. I just don't know what he'd do if..." She was quite hysterical. I told them I'd suspected drug use for over two years but could never prove it. The kids nodded and said they'd seen drugs for a long time but were afraid to tell anyone.

In April, I learned ex was arrested a year prior for hit and run. He had my son in the car at the time, which is how I learned of the event. I took what bits of info. He gave me and pulled the police report. I was horrified. I went further and tracked down the arresting officer, assisting officer and the woman whose car my ex hit. My son tried to tell me a different story and in doing so, he further incriminated his father, without even realizing it. "Well Dad got really mad then and... this wasn't exactly legal, but he passed her on the left, next to the big cement thing" So you see, my ex has a way of twisting the right from the wrong so that my kids think he's a hero. Two hours after the incident, my ex was arrested on his front door step, while my kids watched and saw 2 police cars on their front curb. Ex had his parents post bail and hire an attorney to get him dismissed of the charges. His parents have been hiding other things too, which the kids know about - but they all knew it was enough to take custody from him if it were ever brought out.

I became very frustrated one evening in April and my son demanded a candid conversation, which I should have never fallen into - my mistake. I told him what I thought of his dad and called him a name. My son became angry and started yelling profanities at me. I told him that I wasn't going to allow him to speak to me that way and when he didn't stop, my husband stepped in and told him to stop. He laid his hand on my son's shoulder and pushed him.

My ex took us to court for temporary custody and admitted to falsifying/exaggerating statements on the paperwork to get the order. The judge dismissed his temporary relief but suggested I take a one week time-out with the kids. I agreed. The incident was not raised in court during the preliminary hearing and my ex even said that he thought my husband was a good man and has brought a lot of good to his children's lives. This was a one-time incident and my children were not afraid of my husband.

So... what I was chastised for was badmouthing Dad in front of the children. The children's attorney drove it hard and made me feel like a criminal and implied that I was a bad mother all around; that I did not provide a healthy, happy home.

For eight years, I've sent my children to my ex's house so they could maintain contact with him. I did not want them to get drug through this painful court process and they were happy with the 50/50 arrangement until just very recently.

I've been proactive in seeking counseling for myself, as well as family counseling for myself and my children attend to and my ex missed delivering the kids to two of the appointments I made. Further sending the message that Mom doesn't really count. My attorney asked him to come up with two qualities I had as a mother and my ex said I had none. How do you think he conveys this to my children? You can darn well bet there are disparaging remarks going on over there, as well (not that two wrongs make a right) but the kids are afraid to go against him. In the back of their minds, they know I would never hurt them or reject them so when put into the position of choosing, they chose their father - the one who needs them most. The one who allows them to stay up all night, who leaves them alone all night long to play poker or... snort cocaine. This is the life they've chosen and I have to accept it.

I would have to write a book for anyone to understand the half of what I've been through with this man. I met him 30 years ago. He is my Freddie Krueger.

I will adjust to letting my children go but I am having a very difficult time processing how I could be painted as such a horrible mother when all I've ever done is love my children. I've been driving them across town every day on my days so they could be with their dad. I've packed their lunches so they ate a healthier diet than the school lunches provided. I've always worked. I've worked at Hickory Farms when there was no other work to be found. I've gone to school nights and made the Dean's list. Does this make me a bad mother? Apparently so.

I will adjust to letting my children go but I am having a very difficult time processing how I could be painted as such a horrible mother when all I've ever done is love my children. I've been driving them across town every day on my days so they could be with their dad. I've packed their lunches so they ate a healthier diet than the school lunches provided. I've always worked. I've worked at Hickory Farms when there was no other work to be found. I've gone to school nights and made the Dean's list. Does this make me a bad mother? Apparently so.


If I didn't work in the system on and off, I wouldn't believe you - but I do and so I do.

And you are right - I've seen a parent with trash for a life get custody because one day the other parent exploded. Hard when the kids get involved and it's (I guess) a natural instinct to protect "Dad."

I, quite frankly, don't know why/how you are still sane.

No legal advice - other than time has to pass and then you have to see what can/will happen.

If I didn't work in the system on and off, I wouldn't believe you - but I do and so I do.

And you are right - I've seen a parent with trash for a life get custody because one day the other parent exploded. Hard when the kids get involved and it's (I guess) a natural instinct to protect "Dad."

I, quite frankly, don't know why/how you are still sane.

No legal advice - other than time has to pass and then you have to see what can/will happen.

Thank you, Judy. I wish I could have said it in as few words as you were able to capture it.

What's so baffling is that this was presented to the judge as though a full investigation had been done. The woman met me once - more than 6 weeks after I'd been severed from my kids and my ex had time to work on them. If she interviewed anyone, it certainly wasn't on my side - they all would have told her the same thing about my ex that I've posted here (and it would not be hearsay - they've seen it first hand). I'm dealing with more than one pain here - the loss of my children and the fact that I've been publicly deemed as an unfit mother. It hurts A LOT. I hope my faith in Karma is not in vain.

Have your attorney subpoena the drug rehab records for the ex and see what sort of goodies your attorney can glean from the records. It's fair game.

Also have the attorney get ahold of the hit and run accident report and use that as well.

You're looking too much at the small details and totally missing the real ammunition you have at your disposal. You need to build a bad character picture of this guy for the judge showing him HE's the bad character in this scenerio - NOT YOU. You mentioned about the kids knowing other things about dear old dad that could result in his losing custody. Well, have at it. Tell your attorney. Who's feelings are you going to hurt at this point? His? I don't think so. He's gone way beyond that point a long time ago when he started lying about everything. What are you afraid of? The children's feelings? They've obviously chosen to protect old dad and throw you under the bus while doing it.

You need to build up a good picture of yourself showing how your home is superior to his for the children. You stressed academics over sports. You also mentioned something about the boy getting a d/l. At this point I don't think that's important for a 16 year old to be driving a car just yet. Also the porn issue needs to be addressed here as well. You really need to get a list of things the ex lets the kids do that is not right or moral or shows good parenting skills. Such as the hit and run, the porn, the neglecting of the academics over sports to the detriment of his grades. Stuff like that.

I'm still mystified how a temporary one week time off turned into a full time custody. That still makes no sense to me. You said the other attorney drove it home that you were a bad mother. Just what was so bad about you that would sway a judge into thinking this when dear old dad had a hit and run, a rehab problem, and his son is using a cell phone calling porn sites? I guess that's good? What did your attorney counter with on that baloney shoved out in court? Your attorney apparently has no real handle on what is going on from what I can see. You didn't get your full say in things as you claim at the one hearing as you were "out of time". Your ex obviously has a very aggressive attorney (paid for by mommie and daddy no doubt).

Have your attorney subpoena the drug rehab records for the ex and see what sort of goodies your attorney can glean from the records. It's fair game.

Also have the attorney get ahold of the hit and run accident report and use that as well.

You're looking too much at the small details and totally missing the real ammunition you have at your disposal. You need to build a bad character picture of this guy for the judge showing him HE's the bad character in this scenario - NOT YOU. You mentioned about the kids knowing other things about dear old dad that could result in his losing custody. Well, have at it. Tell your attorney. Who's feelings are you going to hurt at this point? His? I don't think so. He's gone way beyond that point a long time ago when he started lying about everything. What are you afraid of? The children's feelings? They've obviously chosen to protect old dad and throw you under the bus while doing it.

You need to build up a good picture of yourself showing how your home is superior to his for the children. You stressed academics over sports. You also mentioned something about the boy getting a d/l. At this point I don't think that's important for a 16 year old to be driving a car just yet. Also the porn issue needs to be addressed here as well. You really need to get a list of things the ex lets the kids do that is not right or moral or shows good parenting skills. Such as the hit and run, the porn, the neglecting of the academics over sports to the detriment of his grades. Stuff like that.

I'm still mystified how a temporary one week time off turned into a full time custody. That still makes no sense to me. You said the other attorney drove it home that you were a bad mother. Just what was so bad about you that would sway a judge into thinking this when dear old dad had a hit and run, a rehab problem, and his son is using a cell phone calling porn sites? I guess that's good? What did your attorney counter with on that baloney shoved out in court? Your attorney apparently has no real handle on what is going on from what I can see. You didn't get your full say in things as you claim at the one hearing as you were "out of time". Your ex obviously has a very aggressive attorney (paid for by mommie and daddy no doubt).

You hit the nail on the head on every point. My attorney does know about these things and I have the police report. I've become an excellent sleuth over the years. I didn't mention that the first road rage report I pulled was in 2002 - when dad was still in an apartment near the house he's in now (I stayed in the house for 2 years, paying the mortgage). The kids were acting funny one day and said enough for me to ask "What are you talking about?" They looked at each other and said "Should we tell her?" I said "Too late now... you're gonna have to." Dad was pulling out of Blockbuster and honked at the guy in front of him, who was trying to turn left from the right turn exit lane. The guy got mad and got out of the car and walked toward ex's car. Ex rolled down the window and started yelling at the guy... who reached in and grabbed ex by the collar. So my kids tell me that their dad reached out and grabbed the other guy by "the voice box" and the man started coughing and spitting. Both men had each other by the collar now and so my ex pulled a hunting blade out from the front seat and held it against the guy and said "Don't make me cut you, man" That's the kids' story. I had to do some digging to figure out where it happened, time of year, municipality, etc. but I found it - bingo! And guess what? The police write up matched the story exactly... minus the knife bit. The police report ends with the other man "just left and got into his car" The license number was never matched to the car description. I promised my kids I would never tell their dad they told me about this - and I've been able to keep that promise, as he thinks I just went to the county and found it on my own. About a year later, ex was taking my kids to my house after a game 20 miles south of here. As he got onto the freeway, he apparently cut another driver off who threw a Big Gulp of soda at ex's car. That was enough for ex to chase the guy down, exit the freeway and follow the guy into an empty high school parking lot. The driver of the other vehicle was actually a woman and the guy who threw the soda was in the passenger seat. They cornered ex in the parking lot. Even though ex was on the phone with police, the guy got out of the car and pounded on the windows of my ex's car, kicked in the entire left side of the car, then slashed the tires so he couldn't leave. My kids were screaming in the back seat the whole time. Ex had to call his father to come get the kids and finish the transport to my house. THIS incident he had to tell me about, because there was a delay in their delivery and he didn't have a week to buffer their trauma (unlike the earlier time). Unfortunately, each one of these road rage incidents were not discovered until well over a year after they occurred and I've always been told that by then, the court wouldn't view it as 'current.' Again, it seems like he just keeps operating outside the lines.

His home has become disgusting. The kids have told me that the shower is black but my son says "But only our feet are touching, so it's not that big of a deal" My daughter refuses to clean her dad's bathroom. She scrubbed it 6 times once and said it still wasn't clean. I remember what a pig he was. It was only because of me that the house was kept clean.

My husband and I have put a lot of work into our home. It's an older home but people always comment on how welcoming it is from the first step in. I gave my attorney photos of inside and out, as well as some exterior photos of my ex's home I took on the same day. Weeds were hip high, fence is falling down, etc. Lord only knows how it looks inside. I'm sure the pointsettia table cloth is still on the dining table from 5 years ago. Ex has never put up a Christmas tree for the kids - they always look forward to going out with me and my husband do cut their own. We finish off the day by having lunch in a country 'tavern' (for families), then let the kids string the lights and decorate. It's their day. I'll probably get an artificial tree if the kids aren't here to do the ritual with.

I know my attorney mentioned all these things in his memorandum, but there is no evidence attached and we had no time to present anything. This was just a parenting time hearing, but the judge has obviously already made up his mind on custody as well. He told the attorneys in chambers before the hearing that I would not be getting custody if I sought it. The judge was bouncing his knees the entire hearing and clearly not listening to the testimony given. Also, with respect to my ex lying about kicking the kids out last year, who can prove it - except for me and my husband? Especially if the kids are not willing to testify against their dad (not that I'd ever want to put the on the stand to do so.) I have kept a journal of events since April 2007 (and emails from long before that). It just doesn't seem to be enough. My attorney is very young... and I think "too kind" as my husband stated. He (I think) truly wants to be above board and is not willing to practice law like a TV drama show.

I feel like I should have had more coaching about what to expect at this hearing. My ex went first and his attorney and the kids' attorney asked him questions where he could trump himself up. When my attorney cross-examined him, my ex lied on several points. Who's to prove it on the spot though? And I have never understood why he didn't ask all those other questions about the road rage, the fact that he perjured himself in deposition and on the stand. I don't have any more money (I've already mortgaged my house to pay for getting this far). I think part of the strategy from ex' side was to take it beyond where I could afford financially, since his parents keep the fire stoked on his side. He doesn't have to worry at all - I do.

What it all boils down to is that the kids see me as the enemy because I DO have ammunition against dad and yes - they've decided to throw me under the bus to protect him. I don't have so much as a parking ticket. I have a nice husband, a nice (albeit modest) home, and wonderful friends while ex has nothing. The kids don't have friends spend the night at ex's house - they spend the night at their friend's homes on weekends. I'm the family matriarch, so my siblings and any 'orphans' (friends who have no family around) always end up here for the holidays. Ex relies on his parents for holiday cheer.

Anyway... this has helped me feel at least a little vindicated just being able to vent. I will wait until this is all over and once the kids' attorney is released from her position, I will send her a letter and spell it out for her - she made a horrible mistake.

I hope it's possible to turn in all this evidence by the February hearing but I also feel like it will just be an exercise in futility, since judges don't like to be told they're wrong.