From the Qur'an:


The Cow; [2.62] Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

I do not understand the Qur'an fully, so pardon me that I see this as contradictory to the many less than pleasing things that the Qur'an says about Christians.

... but there it is in black and white. What does a scholar of the Qur'an say that this passage means, if not exactly what it says?

Comparing the above to what my Faith teaches, it appears that the two are equally accepting of the other:


The Catechism of the Catholic Church:
Part 1, Section 2, Chapter 3, Article 9, Paragraph 3, SubSection 3, Heading 4
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims: "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

... however, so many other statements condemning of Christians in the Qur'an make me wonder...

I ask in complete sincerety, prompted by the recent discussions of Islam...

Maybe the problem is not the books themselves but the people that read the books! Oopps! Sorry Rick I'm not a moslem.:cool: :eek:

That is not the only place in the Quo'ran that says that anyone who submits themselves to the will of God is a muslim. Yes the problem is the people reading the book I think they like to leave parts of it out.

Every one,quran says about black and white that,every one is equall,nobuddy is greater than any one,every one is equal,n thing you asked about tat cow,muslims don't believe that cow is thir god or anything,muslim only believe in one god and that is ALLAH,I'm a muslim and I know it,ALLAH says in the quran that every one who will do good deeds in this world they will have their reward in the end,n they should not fear any punishment(if there are not sinners).

every one,quran says about black and white that,every one is equall,nobuddy is greater than any one,every one is equal,n thing u asked about tat cow,muslims dont believe that cow is thir god or anything,muslim only believe in one god and that is ALLAH,i m a muslim and i know it,ALLAH says in the quran that every one who will do good deeds in this world they will have their reward in the end,n they should not fear any punishment(if there are not sinners).
The cow is name of chapter 2 in english or Al-Baqarah question was not about "a cow"

Oh I'm sorry,I miss understood u,itz entirely my mistake.

oh i m sorry,i miss understood u,itz entirely my mistake.

No problem. I was just pointing out that the above passage seems to be saying that Christians will "have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them", yet I know of many Muslims who call Christians "infidels".

... so I was looking for Muslims to expand on what 2.62 means to them.

Well I haven't heard any thing which you are explaiing

That is encouraging! So you are taught that Christians go to heaven along with Muslims?

The teachings say that a Muslim is a person who submits themselves to the will of God and from the way it is stated in the Suras that includes Jews and Christians.
Hope that helps.

Well I will confirm it by a good scholar.but if your so confusing,so whydont you convert into a muslim(just a opinion),the choice is totally yours.

I am firmly Christian. I was asking only because I know of Muslims who say that only Muslims go to heaven... so I was wondering why they are taught that since the Qu'ran teaches otherwise.

Good lord I really wanted that question answered! Oh Mr. Aghamajihad, please come back and enlighten me. I'm not an infidel, I believe in one GOD. He just has three aspects. Will I still get to go to heaven?

magprob the Quo'ran speaks on this issue keep going in chapter 2 starting at verse 135 or 134 if I remember right.
The Quo'ran covers this in many suras give a few days to look up all of them and I may have a answer that covers it better.

Hey I got your answers,listen a infidels is a person who does infides,right,so de thin is iif we realte any one with allah(de one and de only god)its a infide,n I think that christian believe that jesus christ is de son of allah,that's a infide,n itz in quran and in hadiths that one who does infides can't go to heaven,thatz de whole story.n de thing I was telling of conversion,well it was just opinion de decision is totally yours,n I don't have any righht to say you anything.

hey i got ur answers,listen a infidels is a person who does infides,right,so de thin is iif we realte any one wid allah(de one n de only god)its a infide,n i think that christian believe that jesus christ is de son of allah,thats a infide,n itz in quran n in hadiths that one who does infides can't goto heaven,thatz de whole story.n de thing i was tellin of conversion,well it was just opinion de decision is totally yours,n i dont have any righht to say u anything.

There is only one God there are Christian religions that believe the way that the followers of Islam do that Jesus was a prophet of God and that being the "son" was in spirit.

The Quo'ran says that anyone who follows Allah (God) and the words of his prophets is going to heaven so saying all Jews or all Christians are not would be false.

Religion is a private matter between God and you not God a priest or rabbi and you the problem is when folks starting following some man and not God.

Listen,jesus christ was not de son of ALLAH,he was a prophet and a human being only,n there were four books from ALLAH,Quran was the lst of them, and listen you can go to any islamic scholar,hell tell u there de previous 3 books were altered by de man,but quran is not altered yet and Quran is de complete guide to live a happy and peaceful life.if we believe in prophet muhammad and then we should believe in hadiths too,and it is necessary to believe in hadiths,and the things which I told you is in hadiths and is in quran.

aghamajid going back to the question that started this thread on sura 2 verse 62 it says very clearly that those who follow Allah and do good (follow the will of God) will have there reward.
As for the islamic scholars these are part of the problem same as the christian scholars are. This is part of what I was saying when I said follow God not man.
As for Jesus being son of God we are all childern of God and maybe I am not explaining it well. There might be a language barrier that I am not crossing.

Dear RickJ:

Your sincere question is a sign that you are in the quest for truth and will be accepting of it when it is presented to you. May God bless your pure intentions and guide us all to the straight path.

Before I answer, let me clarify a few points: Islam is a verb and literally means submitting to the will of God in peace. This is unlike most of the major religions that are named after a person or place, e.g. Judah-Judaism, Christ-Christianity, Buddha-Buddhism, Indus Valley-Hinduism, etc. So Islam is an active verb and the one who submits is a doer of Islam or an Islamer. In Arabic there is a prefix 'mu' like the suffix 'er' in English. So a Mu-islam or Muslim is one who submits his/her will to the will of his Lord. All the Prophets sent by God to guide humanity from the time of Adam to Noah to Abraham to Moses to Jesus and Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all) were muslims in the true sense because they devoted their lives to the God's mission - to take mankind from darkness to light!

No muslim is a true muslim if he/she does not believe in all the messengers. So believing in Moses and Jesus as Prophets of Allah is an article of the muslim faith.

Here is the correct way to understand verse 2:62 and another similar verse 5:69 in the Holy Qur'an:

Allah, may He be exalted, points out that whoever of the previous nations did well and was obedient, will have a good reward, and this will be the case for everyone who follows the Unlettered Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) until the Hour comes – he will have eternal happiness, and they will not fear what they are going to face, nor will they grieve for what they have left behind.

As far as the Jews are concerning, their faith meant believing in the Tawraat (original Torah) and following the way of Moses (peace be upon him) until Jesus (peace be upon him) came, after which whoever continued to follow the Torah and the way of Moses and did not leave this and follow Jesus, was doomed.

As far as the Christians are concerned, their faith meant believing in the Injeel (original Gospel) and following the laws of Jesus (peace be upon him); whoever did this was a believer whose faith was acceptable to Allah, until Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) came, after which whoever did not follow Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and leave the way of Jesus and the Injeel that he had been following before, was doomed.

Another verse of the Qur'an: “And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers” [Aal 'Imraan 3:85] is a statement that Allah will not accept any way or deed from anyone, after sending His Final Messenger, except those that are in accordance with the laws of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Prior to this, however, anyone who followed the Prophet of his own time was on the Straight Path of salvation. So the Jews were those who followed Moses (peace be upon him) and referred to the Tawraat (Torah) for judgement at that time. When Allah sent Jesus (peace be upon him), the Children of Israel were obliged to follow him and obey him, and so they and others who followed him became Christians. When Allah sent Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), as the Final Prophet and a Messenger to all the children of Adam, all of mankind was obliged to believe in him and obey him, and refrain from what he prohibited. Those who did so are the true believers. The ummah (nation) of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) are called the believers because of their deep iman (faith) and conviction, and because they believe in all the past Prophets and in the prophesied events that are yet to come.

Hope that was clear. May Allah make us among those who follow His way - those who will not fear the future or grieve for what they leave behind. Ameen.

Sort of clear :o

In short then, Islam teaches that all but Muslims are doomed?

So a Mu-islam or Muslim is one who submits his/her will to the will of his Lord. All the Prophets sent by God to guide humanity from the time of Adam to Noah to Abraham to Moses to Jesus and Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all) were muslims in the true sense because they devoted their lives to the God's mission - to take mankind from darkness to light!

This makes sense so, so all who follow in the ways of the prophets will have salvation. That takes care of the middle east, but does this exclude Buddhist, or Taoist? Or any religion that has no roots in the middle east?

Anyone who worships the one true God - the Creator of the heavens and the earth and everything in between - without associating any partners to Him will be saved from the eternal hell fire. God has laid down instructions on how we need to be subservient to Him and how we need to live this short life in order to gain His pleasure and the never-ending reward of the hereafter. He has sent messengers and prophets at different times to different nations to guide the people and teach them.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the last and final messenger of Allah and the Holy Qur'an is the Last Testament which abrogates all the books that came before it. The Prophet Muhammad was prophesized in the Torah and the Gospel and Jesus had given the glad tidings of his coming. It is binding upon all mankind to now follow the teachings of Muhammad (peace be upon him). Every other way or ideology will only lead to misguidance!

He has sent messengers and prophets at different times to different nations to guide the people and teach them.

Hate to sound dumb but who did he send to Asia again or India or America for that matter??

Dear RickJ
Peace be upon you

The verse of the Glorious and Miraculous Qur'an is self evident if you read it in its proper context. If you note, the verse begins: [B][I]"Surely those who believe..." though the Jews, Christians and Sabians are mentioned thereafter, ALLAH (Glorified be HE) qualifies who the Believers are, they are: "...whoever believes in ALLAH and the Last Day and does good..."

The Glorious and Miraculous Qur'an affirms that among the Jews, Christians and Sabians there are those who subscribe to this concept of belief. What needs to be understood is that belief in ALLAH (Glorified be HE) is about an unconditional and uncompromising belief, it is about absolute pure monotheism, which in Islamic terminology is termed: "Tauwhid". There is no room for any form or concept of ALLAH (Glorified be HE) as the following would demonstrate: "Say: HE is ALLAH, (the) One. ALLAH, the Self-Sufficient Master whom all need. HE begets not, nor was HE begotten.And there is none co-equal or comparable unto HIM." (GMQ 112:1-4).

So anyone who subscribes to this concept of "Tawhid" in its pristine pure form will attain their Reward from their LORD and not fear nor grieve.

Hope this throws some light in your search for Truth.

Sort of clear :o

In short then, Islam teaches that all but Muslims are doomed?

?

Originally Posted by RickJ
Sort of clear :o

In short then, Islam teaches that all but Muslims are doomed?


It seems that being a muslim is more a way of life and a way to think as opposed to a label or a name, I think so all who believe in God and follow the ways of a prophet, can look forward to salvation.

But as Quor'an points out if you submit to the will of God you are a muslim. I know at times I do not express it well.

The best translation that I know of is by Maulana Muhammad Ali if you can locate this. It was done in 1917 I believe.

Hate to sound dumb but who did he send to Asia again or India or America for that matter??????

Previous Prophets & Messengers were sent to a particular place or people for a particular time. So not just the middle east but surely to other parts as well. But Allah sent the last and final messenger & the seal of Prophethood -Muhammad (peace be upon him) - as a guide to all of humanity until the end of time.

"And We did not send you (O Muhammad) except as a Mercy to the worlds" [21:107]

Surely God is All-Knowing and He knows what the future holds. The means of information have never been as advanced as in the modern age and who knows what improvements are in store for the future. The message of Islam - the Oneness of God both in Lordship and Worship - though originating in the deserts of Arabia about 1400 years ago, has spread far and wide. The very fact that I'm writing this in one part of the globe to be read, pondered upon and replied by others from various other locations at the click of a button bears testimony to the fact that the message has spread. Most but not all Arabs are Muslims. Most Muslims are not Arabs. About 85% of the world’s Muslims are not Arabs. Indonesia has the largest Muslim population in the world. In fact, I'm not an Arab or a citizen of the middle east myself!

So to conclude, I invite you to the truth - the worship of the One God, the One who begets not nor is He begotten, the One who has no father or son nor is it befitting for him to take any partners. Becoming a muslim is the natural disposition of man and is as easy as testifying "Laa ilaaha illa-Allah, Muhammad rasool-Allah" meaning "There is no diety worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad is His messenger"

If you say that with your tongue and firm conviction in your heart, hey you're a muslim! :)

So the pope could be considered a muslim?

Originally Posted by RickJ
Sort of clear
In short then, Islam teaches that all but Muslims are doomed?


It seems that being a muslim is more a way of life and a way to think as opposed to a label or a name, I think so all who believe in God and follow the ways of a prophet, can look forward to salvation.

Yep, well said. Believe in God and follow the ways of THE prophet.

Jesus (peace be upon him) had given glad tidings of Muhammad and it is binding now upon all Christians to follow him. Muslims believe Jesus to be one of the greatest of all messengers. We believe in his miracle birth, his healing the blind and the leper and his giving life to the dead with God's permission. But Jesus never claimed divinity for that would be against his mission. Nor was he crucified as Allah says in the Quran:

"And because of their saying (in boast). We killed Messiah 'Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah," -- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them" [4:157]

Jesus was raised up by Allah and just like the Christians, muslims believe that he will return before the end of time. But this time not as a messenger but as a leader of the muslims following the commandments of the Qur'an the legislations laid down by Muhammad. He will be a proof against the Christians as described so eloquently in the Qur'an, Chapter 5:

116. And (remember) when Allâh will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allâh?' " He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner­self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All­Knower of all that is hidden and unseen.

117. "Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allâh) did command me to say: 'Worship Allâh, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things. (This is a great admonition and warning to the Christians of the whole world).

118. "If You punish them, they are Your slaves, and if You forgive them, verily You, only You are the All­Mighty, the All­Wise."

119. Allâh will say: "This is a Day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise) - they shall abide therein forever. Allâh is pleased with them and they with Him. That is the great success (Paradise).

120. To Allâh belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is therein, and He is Able to do all things.

So the pope could be considered a muslim?

I'm not aware of the beliefs of the Pope of the Catholic Church but I do know that they ascribe to the Trinitarian belief despite proclaiming themselves to be monotheistic. This is blasphemy because Jesus never proclaimed divinity for himself nor did he ask his followers to worship him. In fact he prayed to God himself like a true subservient slave. After Christ, the religion and texts were tampered with and there is clear evidence from the early centuries of the adding and expounding of books, e.g. Council of Nicea in the year 325.

The word Trinity cannot be found in the bible but it is mentioned in the Qur'an:

O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allâh aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allâh and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rûh)[] created by Him; so believe in Allâh and His Messengers. Say not: "Trinity!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allâh is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allâh is All­Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs. [4:171]

Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allâh is the third of the three (in a Trinity)." But there is no ilâh (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilâh (God -Allâh). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them. [5:73]

So coming back to your question, yea, the pope could be considered muslim if he ceases to believe and call to the concept of trinity because God forgives every sin except that we associate partners to Him.

Verily, Allâh forgives not that partners should be set up with him in worship, but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He pleases, and whoever sets up partners with Allâh in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin. [4:48]

This is blasphemy because Jesus never proclaimed divinity for himself

This is where the disagreement lies. In our Scripture He affirmed He is Lord. I know, though, that Islam does not accept our Scripture... so for me it is about affirming who is right about Jesus: His apostles or someone who came 500 years later.

I do not say that to demean the faith of Islam, as I believe just as my Faith teaches: "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

My initial post was looking for an Islam answer that might be as clear as that either confirming or denying... but I have yet to see it.

This is where the disagreement lies. In our Scripture He affirmed He is Lord. I know, though, that Islam does not accept our Scripture...so for me it is about affirming who is right about Jesus: His apostles or someone who came 500 years later.

I do not say that to demean the faith of Islam, as I believe just as my Faith teaches: "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

My initial post was looking for an Islam answer that might be as clear as that either confirming or denying...but I have yet to see it.

Yes, I agree that's where we disagree! I do not mean to demean the Christians or the Christian faith either. Just wanted to clarify the Islamic standpoint on the issue.

The affirmation of who is right about Jesus: I'd rather have Jesus say the same about himself instead of his apostles or God reveal the truth to the next messenger. Keep in mind Muhammad was an unlettered Prophet and an illiterate who could neither read nor write. So the Qur'an is not his words but the speech of God revealed unto him.

Regarding your initial post, as discussed earlier, it is true for Jews from the time of Moses to Jesus and for the Christians from the time of Jesus to Muhammad but not after that time. That would be the correct way to interpret the verse you mentioned.

Thank you for clarifying.

fitnahpolice is right

I am not an expert ( so corrections welcome), I think the answer lies in the fact that Islam has always recoognised the existence of prophet Isa (Jesus) but that Chritianity (in the sense of the differing churches & differing ways to worship god) have been seen as man-made. Therefore anyone who truly worships the creator & follows Christs original teachings (ie be good to people, fllow the ten commandments, worship god NOT me, rather than what the romans incorporated into Pagan rituals etc. may have a chance on Judgement day. But the Quran is hard in other excerpts on Christianity as it is a fake religion & lot of the things that are divine are probably not divine & from an islamic viewpoint a lot of'blasphemy' (may not be the perfect word) is preached in the name of one of the gentlest prophets that existed - the main one that springs to mind where certain churches actually worship Jesus as a GOD rather than a seprate entity.

Please note that I am not a qu'ranic expert expert & this is just an educated opinion.

Hello new to the site so have just posted an opinion without following the thread. Please allow me while I play catch up!!

DEar RickJ and all others,
Peace be with and upon you all

What needs to be understood is that Islam did not come 500years after the disappearance of Prophet Isa (pbuh), Islam is the Way of all Prophets from the time of Adam (pbuh) right down to Muhammad (pbuh).

Revelation, like knowledge, was an evolutionary process and evolved with the evolution of human maturity. Not all Prophets received Revelation as the Torah (Old Testament), Injeel (New Testament), Zaboor (Psalms) and the Qur'an. Some Prophets received Epistles and some Prophets merely re-enforced previous scriptures. The Glorious and miraculous Qur'an was Revealed as the Last Revelation because humanity had now reached a level of intellectual maturity and was ready to receive a Messenger like Muhammad (pbuhah) and a Revelation like the Glorious and Miraculous Qur'an.

The Qur'an, unlike the previous Revelations set forth humanity the principles for the acquisition of knowledge and its tabulation, and introduced to humanity the process by which humanity would recognize the existence of ALLAH (Glorified be HE) through this process, namely: thought and observation. If analysed thoughtfully, it would be realised that "Islam" challenged humanity to discover that through the observation of all the phenomena surrounding it, i.e. humanity, is it possible that a being or thing other than ALLAH (Glorified be HE) is the designer of such Wonder and Marvel.

For want of space, we cite but one example. When the people around the Most Noble and Holy Messenger Muhammad (pbuh) questiined him about Resurrection, the Qur'an replied in the following: "Does humanity think that We cannot assemble their bones? Nay We are able to put together in perfect order the very tips of their fingers." (GMC 75:3-4). Now we all know that there is not one human being who has the same fingerprint as the other, and this was only discovered in recent history, whereas the Glorious and Miraculous Qur'an alluded to this fact 1400 years ago. There are many other such factual data in the Qur'an which, ALLAH Willing we will expound if asked to or if need be.

With Peace!

I am not an expert ( so corrections welcome), I think the answer lies in the fact that Islam has always recoognised the existence of prophet Isa (Jesus) but that Chritianity (in the sense of the differing churches & differing ways to worship god) have been seen as man-made. Therefore anyone who truly worships the creator & follows Christs original teachings (ie be good to people, fllow the ten commandments, worship god NOT me, rather than what the romans incorporated into Pagan rituals etc. may have a chance on Judgement day. But the Quran is hard in other excerpts on Christianity as it is a fake religion & lot of the things that are divine are probably not divine & from an islamic viewpoint a lot of'blasphemy' (may not be the perfect word) is preached in the name of one of the gentlest prophets that existed - the main one that springs to mind where certain churches actually worship Jesus as a GOD rather than a seprate entity.

Please note that i am not a qu'ranic expert expert & this is just an educated opinion.

Welcome fluid identity! Need to appreciate your open-mindedness. Surely God guides those who sincerely seek His way :)

Islam is not hard on Christianity as it considers the Jews and Christians as people of the book (scripture) and muslims are allowed to eat their slaughtered meat and marry their women. But Islam is surely critical of the innovations introduced by the Christians after Jesus (peace be upon him). And if introducing partners to the divinity of the One God is not blasphemy, what is?

Just curious, how does the muslims deal with those who have opposing views and will not convert? Can there be peace say with Buddhist or hindi's?

Just curious, how does the muslims deal with those who have opposing views and will not convert? Can there be peace say with buddist or hindi's?

Of course muslims can and must co-exist peacefully - be it jews, christians, buddhists or hindus.

There is no compulsion is religion. A muslim may deliver the message of monotheism but it is not up to him/her to guide anyone because guidance to the truth only comes from God.

So yea, Islam does not allow indiscriminate killing... not at all!

"...if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind..." [Qur'an 5:32]

Peace!

Just curious, how does the muslims deal with those who have opposing views and will not convert? Can there be peace say with buddist or hindi's?

Peace be upon you

The Freedom of Choice is an in integral concept within Islamic Precepts. As Fitnahpolice quoted quoted, "There is no compulsion in the Deen (Islamic Way of Existence)" (GMQ 2:256) The Glorious and Miraculous Qur'an goes further to elucidate this "non compulsion" by this very rational and logical statement: "Because Truth is made Manifest from Falsehood" (GMQ 2:256).

Din ul Islam is the embodiment of Peace, not only between human beings, but between all creation. Islam advocates the harmonious co-existence between all creation with the exception when attacked. The Glorious and Miraculous Qur'an clearly and unambiguously instructs: "Fight only those who fight you.....and if they incline towards Peace incline you then towards Peace."

Islam is about realising the great potential, ability and capability which is the "Human Being" and enhancing and upholding the Human dignity. Islam informs the Human Being about its nobility and loftiness and sets forth for it examples in the realm of creation around it. Islam is about the Human Character and its perfection and enhancing minuscule Divine Attributes which lurk within it.

Apt to this concept are the following:

"Verily, We created the human being in the best and highest stature. Then We reduce him to the lowest of the low." (GMQ 95:4-5)

"I have been sent only to Perfect human Character." "Imbue yourselves with Divine Attributes." (The Noble and Holy Messenger (pbuhah)

"Do not think of yourself as an insignificant drop of sperm, because you are the words on the pages of the book which unfolds the secrets of the universe." (Imam Ali ibn Abu Talib (as))

With Peace

Welcome fluid identity! Need to appreciate your open-mindedness. Surely God guides those who sincerely seek His way :)

Islam is not hard on Christianity as it considers the Jews and Christians as people of the book (scripture) and muslims are allowed to eat their slaughtered meat and marry their women. But Islam is surely critical of the innovations introduced by the Christians after Jesus (peace be upon him). And if introducing partners to the divinity of the One God is not blasphemy, what is?!

Just to clear up some misconceptions maybe , I actually agree with you & believe in the prophets ( Jesus & Mohammed) but that the romans misguided the path of chritianityy with nescian conference into the trinitarian belief system ( though once the prophet Muhammed came it was all obselete anyway)

I also do believe it is a blasphemy for Isa to be considered god but in no way cast aspersions as to his character or his message.

al-mukhleseen

I think that Islam has had some very bad speakers representing it in the media recently so I appreciate some one such as yourself who calmly particpates in discourse. Islam needs its scholars!

The problem is that the "media" seems to like discord I sometimes think it picks the most radical views it can find and says this is mainstream Islam.

There are many places on the web and in newspapers around the world where al-mukhleseen would fit right in. His grasp of english is a lot better than mine.

al-mukhleseen are you arabian,where are you from,I would like to know,as I am a muslim too,I would like to chat with you

Peace be upon all,
A hearty and humble thanks to "fluid identity & carbonite" for their kind words. Much appreciated.

Our manners, as well as basis for discussion stems from the Glorious and Miraculous Qur'an, which instructs: "Invite to the Way of your LORD with wisdom and beautiful words, and discuss in a dialectic manner." (GMQ 16:125). If you note, the Practice of the Most Noble and Holy Messenger of ALLAH, Muhammad (pbuhah), was to invite people to the reality of ALLAH (Glorified be HE) through reason, logic and experience. For fifteen years (thriteen in the Sanctified City of Makkah and two in the Holy City of Madinah), his (pbuhah) mission was to inform people of the Unity of ALLAH (Gbh), the Unity of Humanity and the Unity of Creation, and this too, under trying and difficult circumstances like verbal and physical abuse, economic boycott and torture. In all this while, never did he (pbuhah) advocate any form of violence against the perpetrators of these actions.

It was in the Holy city of Madinah, two years after migration, that Muslims were permitted to defend themselves against those who wished to destroy their new found freedom and annihilate them. The operative words here are: "to defend themselves", like the right of any country or nation to defend itself and its borders against invasion or hostile aggression, as the Glorious and Miraculous Qur'an directs towards this sort of preparation: "And prepare against them all you can of power and weapons of war, at your borders to dismay thereby the enemy of ALLAH and your enemy...."(GMQ 08:60).

We reiterate, Islam is about logic and reason and presenting irrefutable proof as the following from the Glorious and Miraculous Qur'an demonstrates: "Have you not considered him (Nimrod) who disputed with Ibrahim (Abraham) about ALLAH, because ALLAH had given him the kingdom? When Ibrahim said (to him): 'My ALLAH is He who gives life and causes death.' He (Nimrod) said: 'I give life and cause death.' Ibrahim said: 'Verily! ALLAH causes the sun to rise from the east; then cause it you to rise from the west.' So he (Nimrod) was utterly defeated. (GMQ 2:258). Nimrod, being a King thought of life and death in his limited underdstanding of granting freedom and putting to death those whom he commanded. Ibrahim (pbuh) having understood this limited understanding, poses a question which has to appeal to his logic, reason and experience.

We hope that this at least partially elucidates the intellectual nature of Islam, because "Faith" is an intellectual concept and not an emotional one.

With Peace

You express yourself well and have answered many questions, I'm glad you shared, and brought us knowledge.

Salaams aghamajid,
No I am not Arabian, I am from a beautiful country called South Africa and am an African of Asian descent.

You are welcome to chat at anytime.

Was Salaam,

Salaam aliekum al-mukhleseen
Its been a long time from the last time I was in South Africa it was very beautiful when I was there in 1963.

Stay in peace (wish I could remember how the Zulu's said this)

No problem. I was just pointing out that the above passage seems to be saying that Christians will "have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them", yet I know of many Muslims who call Christians "infidels".

...so I was looking for Muslims to expand on what 2.62 means to them.


No disrespect intended but many christians consider muslims Infidels as well.

No disrespect intended but many christians consider muslims Infidels as well.
That is what the problem is Jews Christians and Islam all come from Abraham and like most things in this world you just can't get folks to get along.

Rick:

I didn't read all the answers but I could tell that Aghamajid, although a nice guy, was taking the discussion to nowhere! Don't know about the rest! Your question was very smart and I'm honored to happen to know the answer.

I was born, went to elementary and middle school in Iran, then immigrated to the U.S. I was born a Muslim but am an Atheist. I respect to all religions and all religious people, of course.

Unlike the Bible which was written years after the crucification of Jesus, Quran was being written during the life of Muhammad, so it reports the events of the day. There are few events in which muslims were engaged in tribal fights with one or two jewish tribes back then. I don't want to go into the historical details.. There is absolutely nothing against Christians and Jews and whoever worships God, in Qoran! Allah is just the Arabic word for God!! Jihad, means going to war to defend!!

What you hear in media today is basically not true about that religion and that region of the world! I don't really understand why the media preaches so much hate between everybody these days. Probably some money somewhere goes into someones pocket!!

Between Palestine and Israel: It's got nothing to do with religion! Palestinians are just trying to take back some of their land and, although I believe violence is always the wrong approach, these guys blow themselves up simply because they don't have helicopters like Israel does!!

Or Al-Qaedeh: Most muslims don't consider them muslim at all! I know, for a fact, that you won't be able to find a muslim in Iran that doesn't disgust groups like Al-Qaedeh.