When we discuss Christianity, is there fear of causing more harm then good? Should we avoid it?

Titus 3:8-11 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. 9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Scripture should be enjoyed with the bitter and sweet, yet without harmful intent. Do we achieve what is favorable?

The verses before this, which tell us the "faithful saying", give the answer.

Titus 3:5-8
He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a trustworthy saying.
NIV

When Christianity becomes just a discussion or argument about trivia and non-essential things then such time spent on Christianity is harmful... against Christ .

The essential truth where we need to focus is :
"He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life."

This is the teaching from God that the enemy of God wishes us to be distracted: God has given salvation to those who look to Jesus Christ for justification.

Jude 1:3
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
(KJV)

If we are obedient, we have no choice. We are charged to transmit the whole council of God, not just that part that is comfortable.

Jude 1:3
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
(KJV)

If we are obedient, we have no choice. We are charged to transmit the whole council of God, not just that part that is comfortable.

Yes agree, and that was the choice.

The effect to obey comes from an inner desire to do God's Will. The reality of knowing everything in thought should be examined in mind before the mouth opens to flaw. Understanding there is error, and mercy remains in God's love through Jesus. Answered prayers to the revealing Truth of God's presence, His hand offered for comfort, and strength. The willing heart to learn more if it is God's Will, so that His Light shines bright. Everything comes forth from The Holy Spirit, Christ Jesus, and The Father as One.

2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word of God. Be prepared, whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke, and encourage your people with good teaching.

Matthew 5:19
So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God's laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Colossians 3:16
Let the message about Christ, in all its richness, fill your lives. Teach and counsel each other with all the wisdom he gives. Sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs to God with thankful hearts.

1 Thessalonians 4:8
Therefore, anyone who refuses to live by these rules is not disobeying human teaching but is rejecting God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you.

1 Timothy 4:16
Keep a close watch on how you live and on your teaching. Stay true to what is right for the sake of your own salvation and the salvation of those who hear you.

1 Timothy 6:3
Some people may contradict our teaching, but these are the wholesome teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. These teachings promote a godly life.

1 Timothy 6:4
Anyone who teaches something different is arrogant and lacks understanding. Such a person has an unhealthy desire to quibble over the meaning of words. This stirs up arguments ending in jealousy, division, slander, and evil suspicions.

2 Timothy 2:2
You have heard me teach things that have been confirmed by many reliable witnesses. Now teach these truths to other trustworthy people who will be able to pass them on to others.

1 John 2:27
But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don't need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true—it is not a lie. So just as he has taught you, remain in fellowship with Christ.

1 Timothy 6:2-5 And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. 3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

I see what you're saying, so we need some kind of reference point to know when we're causing more harm than good. I believe that point is love.
If we sense that what is being presented is for our good, we're able to discuss things cheerfully. When an error in our logic appears, if we're teachable, we can learn from someone who presents something different.
So another reference point is humility, to allow another's perspective, and admit when we're wrong.
Finally, a third point is pride, in the sense of our preconceived ideas, or religion, that has supported our own development in the past, might have to be rejected, if that development becomes stagnated by traditional beliefs.

When we discuss Christianity, is there fear of causing more harm then good?

Sure. This is why St. James warns:
James 3 1 Be ye not many masters, my brethren, knowing that you receive the greater judgment.

So, St. James warns that if you go about teaching the Christian faith, you'd better know what you are talking about or you will receive the greater judgement.


Should we avoid it?

Not if you know what you are talking about.


Titus 3:8-11 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.

You see here, St. Paul is teaching Titus to teach. He says "affirm constantly that they which have believed in God be careful to maintain good works."


These things are good and profitable unto men. 9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Here, St. Paul says to avoid foolish contentions. And to avoid heretics.

Now I think I've proved the heretical nature of teachings such as Scripture alone and faith alone by people on this forum, including, I believe yourself sndbay. But, I'm certain that St. Paul didn't mean, let heretics teach their heresies unabated.

Whenever I see a heretical teaching being justified, I give the Catholic perspective.

As for one on this forum who has pretended to be Catholic in order to misrepresent the Catholic faith and another who was party to that deception, I did my best to correct that which they misrepresented.


Scripture should be enjoyed with the bitter and sweet, yet without harmful intent.

Agreed. But I would say that the "WORD OF GOD should be enjoyed with the bitter and sweet, yet without harmful intent." You see, Scripture says that the Word of God is also in Tradition. And if we know our faith and want to teach our faith, we should not neglect to teach the Traditions of God.


Do we achieve what is favorable?

We're human. Sometimes we achieve what is favorable. Sometimes we fail. A famous and very great man, in my opinion, John Cardinal Newmann once said, "God wills that we succeed in failure."

Sincerely,

De Maria

i see what you're saying, so we need some kind of reference point to know when we're causing more harm than good. i believe that point is love.
if we sense that what is being presented is for our good, we're able to discuss things cheerfully. when an error in our logic appears, if we're teachable, we can learn from someone who presents something different.
so another reference point is humility, to allow another's perspective, and admit when we're wrong.
finally, a third point is pride, in the sense of our preconceived ideas, or religion, that has supported our own development in the past, might have to be rejected, if that development becomes stagnated by traditional beliefs.

I'd like to pull just one thought from your message, if we're teachable,.

The problem is that many are not teachable. They are set in their ways and no matter how logical the argument presented, they REFUSE to believe.

No matter how many times their deceptions are revealed, they WILL NOT TO ACCEPT THE TRUTH.

And so, the fact is, not everyone is teachable.

On the upside, many are seeking truth. And if we believe we can impart the truth, we should not shirk from teaching that which we believe is true.

Sincerely,

De Maria

When we discuss Christianity, is there fear of causing more harm then good? Should we avoid it?

Titus 3:8-11 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. 9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Scripture should be enjoyed with the bitter and sweet, yet without harmful intent. Do we achieve what is favorable?


I think that those who believe in Jesus Christ can agree on His lordship, that is the primary thing.

I think it is more important that those who are not Christians know us for our love for each other [ John I think ], and for our service to others [ James - I'll show you my faith by my deeds ].


Thanks all.

Sure. This is why St. James warns:
James 3 1 Be ye not many masters, my brethren, knowing that you receive the greater judgment.

So, St. James warns that if you go about teaching the Christian faith, you'd better know what you are talking about or you will receive the greater judgement.

DeMaria, This definitely speaks of The Spirit of Truth from Our Father. James 3:2 goes on to say that if any man does not offend by what he teaches, it comes from the perfect man that [bridles his teaching.] To bridles ones teaching is to walk in the light of Christ, which would be the law. And walk with Christ as One unitied with Him. This is the perfecting of saints that is refer: in

Eph 4:3-6 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who [is above all], and through all, and in you all.

It is important to realize that the Spirit of Truth from Our Father was given unto everyone in grace according to the gift of Christ.

Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

He gave some to all on earth Eph 4: 9-10 does refer that as fact. And this is told of in refer to The Spirit of Truth from Our Father. Again for that perfecting of saints, thats everyone, a communion of saints in fellowship with Christ Jesus. He loves us! The Perfect Faith walks in the perfecting saints.

Eph 4:11-12 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the [perfecting of the saints], for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Colossians 1:16 For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him: And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.





Not if you know what you are talking about.

You see here, St. Paul is teaching Titus to teach. He says "affirm constantly that they which have believed in God be careful to maintain good works."
Here, St. Paul says to avoid foolish contentions. And to avoid heretics.


Titus 3:8-11 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. 9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

DeMaria, And continues that it should be profitable unto men. Yet the warning to avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 3: 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

A heretick does not realize from the first to the second, but will follow false doctrine, rather then what was exhorted fom the first to the second. (or )you could say the admonities knowing what [belongs to the Lord] (Christ) proceeds from Him, [ Eph 4 ]



Now I think I've proved the heretical nature of teachings such as Scripture alone and faith alone by people on this forum, including, I believe yourself sndbay. But, I'm certain that St. Paul didn't mean, let heretics teach their heresies unabated.

Whenever I see a heretical teaching being justified, I give the Catholic perspective.

As for one on this forum who has pretended to be Catholic in order to misrepresent the Catholic faith and another who was party to that deception, I did my best to correct that which they misrepresented.

Then I would offer this as my choice of Free Will, knowing that we all have Free Will given by Our Father. It is important to each individual to own, in mind and heart, their choice in Free Will. Any of us can plant good seed, but it is Our Father will reveal unto who He chooses. My choice in authority remains firm in believing all power, thrones, dominions, or principalities, are in Chirst from the Father who gave it. Christ alone exhorted in The Spirit of Truth unto us.

Galations 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ

Galatians 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.




But I would say that the "WORD OF GOD should be enjoyed with the bitter and sweet, yet without harmful intent." You see, Scripture says that the Word of God is also in Tradition. And if we know our faith and want to teach our faith, we should not neglect to teach the Traditions of God.

We're human. Sometimes we achieve what is favorable. Sometimes we fail. A famous and very great man, in my opinion, John Cardinal Newmann once said, "God wills that we succeed in failure."

De Maria

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

Galatians 1: 9-10 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed .For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Choice, in mind and heart, I will walk in the light of Christ and with Christ as One.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

DeMaria, This definitely speaks of The Spirit of Truth from Our Father. James 3:2 goes on to say that if any man does not offend by what he teaches, it comes from the perfect man that [bridles his teaching.] To bridles ones teaching is to walk in the light of Christ, which would be the law. And walk with Christ as One unitied with Him. This is the perfecting of saints that is refer: in

James 3 1My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. 2For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

St. James begins by admonishing men not to seek honor by being teachers. He immediately moves on to admonishing about bridling the tongue in all matters. You have read the words "offend by what he teaches" into the text.

The fact is that even Jesus offended men by what He taught. And the servant isn't better than his Master.


Eph 4:3-6 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who [is above all], and through all, and in you all.

It is important to realize that the Spirit of Truth from Our Father was given unto everyone in grace according to the gift of Christ.

But note that there is one Lord, One Faith, One Baptism. Those who have left the teaching of the Catholic Church have splintered the Church into many Faiths and many Baptisms. Yet Scripture is clear:

1 Corinthians 1:13 Is Christ divided?

As you yourself said, there is but one Gospel:
Galatians 1:8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.


Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

He gave some to all on earth Eph 4: 9-10 does refer that as fact. And this is told of in refer to The Spirit of Truth from Our Father. Again for that perfecting of saints, thats everyone, a communion of saints in fellowship with Christ Jesus. He loves us! The Perfect Faith walks in the perfecting saints.

Certainly He loves us. But He expects love in return:
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.


Eph 4:11-12 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the [perfecting of the saints], for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

This is one of those Scriptures which proves that Sola Scriptura is a doctrine of men. Why would Jesus give us apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers for the perfecting of saints if Sola Scriptura were true.

Remember, Jesus commanded the Saints to teach:
Matthew 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

He never said, write a book or pass out Bibles.


Colossians 1:16 For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him: And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.

AMEN!!


Titus 3:8-11 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.

Why do the Apostles always say that we who believe should work?

Because if we don't we won't be saved:
Revelation 20:12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


These things are good and profitable unto men. 9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

DeMaria, And continues that it should be profitable unto men. Yet the warning to avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 3: 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

You know what, you're the second person to give me that advice and I firmly believe that God speaks to us through His people.


A heretick does not realize from the first to the second, but will follow false doctrine, rather then what was exhorted fom the first to the second. (or )you could say the admonities knowing what [belongs to the Lord] (Christ) proceeds from Him, [ Eph 4 ]

I guess I was worrying too much about how they could subvert God's people. But God knows how to take care of His own. I'll follow your advice.


Then I would offer this as my choice of Free Will, knowing that we all have Free Will given by Our Father. It is important to each individual to own, in mind and heart, their choice in Free Will. Any of us can plant good seed, but it is Our Father will reveal unto who He chooses. My choice in authority remains firm in believing all power, thrones, dominions, or principalities, are in Chirst from the Father who gave it. Christ alone exhorted in The Spirit of Truth unto us.

I follow.


Galations 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ

Galatians 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

That is true. Note that St. Paul accepted the Tradition given Him by Christ and left the tradition of his fathers for which he was formerly zealous.

That is again why we keep Tradition and Scripture.
1 Cor 11 23For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:


Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

Galatians 1: 9-10 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed .For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

Amen!


Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Amen! I just want to clarify that the Traditions of the Catholic Church are not traditions of men, but the Traditions which Jesus left the Apostles.

Choice, in mind and heart, I will walk in the light of Christ and with Christ as One.


Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Very good. I believe we are close in understanding of the Scriptures.

But you believe in Sola Scriptura, do you not?

Sincerely,

De Maria

James 3 1My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. 2For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

St. James begins by admonishing men not to seek honor by being teachers. He immediately moves on to admonishing about bridling the tongue in all matters. You have read the words "offend by what he teaches" into the text.

The fact is that even Jesus offended men by what He taught. And the servant isn't better than his Master.

There is one master, and we receive from Him strong censure or severe reproof. Because we do offend many thing in all we do. But if we don't offend the Word, if we exhort Christ , His doctrine, all that is Christ, the same is a perfect man in perfect faith, able to bridle the whole body.

As you see DeMaria, we differ in what is opinon of being said. The offend of word, is that Christ is the WORD, and what many things we offend, bridle [not to] offend Christ the WORD.



But note that there is one Lord, One Faith, One Baptism. Those who have left the teaching of the Catholic Church have splintered the Church into many Faiths and many Baptisms. Yet Scripture is clear:

1 Corinthians 1:13 Is Christ divided?

As you yourself said, there is but one Gospel:
Galatians 1:8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.


Eph 4 tells us Eph 4:3-6 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who [is above all], and through all, and in you all.

You all Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

This was done Eph 4:8-10 herefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

There is no mention of different dominations by name, but there by the measure fo gifts given grace of the gift of Christ to Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Choice goes to follow what Christ has offered as gifts to all. We are all God's children, and we are all loved. We have choice to be one with Christ. The church is the house of God where God is the Pillar. God's house is to be entered giving praise, honor and glory to "ONE" The father, Son, and Holy Ghost.



Certainly He loves us. But He expects love in return:
[I]John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.


Yes I agree, and to show that love we serve Him, we follow Him, we exhort Him.

John 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will [my] Father honour.

1. Serve Christ
2. Follow Christ
3. Where Christ exists
4. We exist in Christ
5. Serve Christ
6. Our Father honor those who serve Christ

Note 1 and 5 are to serve Christ... We our to exhort Christ in all things..



Eph 4:11-12 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the [perfecting of the saints], for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:


This is one of those Scriptures which proves that Sola Scriptura is a doctrine of men. Why would Jesus give us apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers for the perfecting of saints if Sola Scriptura were true.

Being baptizes is being one with Christ. Those baptized are given the Holy Spirit which reveals belief or faith in Christ, and baptism gives you grace being dead to sin, and alive with Christ (New Life) opening the door to heaven. Christ holds all hope to those that believe in Him. Christ is the Key that opened the door. As a baptized believer one individual becomes one with Christ, a perfecting saint, as was Peter, Paul, phophets,evangelists, pastors, teachers, apostles.. a fellowship in Christ/communian of saints.
None of these are followers of men, because none is brought to them by man, but it is brought by Christ. Should you follow man the individual can be deceived because he is not a believer in Truth as it is written of the doctrine in Christ.



Remember, Jesus commanded the Saints to teach:
Matthew 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

He never said, write a book or pass out Bibles.

Joshua 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

2 Kings 22:13 Go ye, enquire of the LORD for me, and for the people, and for all Judah, concerning the words of this book that is found: for great the wrath of the LORD that is kindled against us, because our fathers have not hearkened unto the words of this book, to do according unto all that which is written concerning us.

These scriptures make it pretty clear as choice to do all that is written in The Word. Christ is the Word. As are those in Revelation

Revelation1:2-3 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Plus 1 Corinthians 10:1-11 tells us why it was all written so that we would not be ignornant in this earth. It does go on in 1 Corinthians 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.



[I]1 Cor 11 23For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

Amen! I just want to clarify that the Traditions of the Catholic Church are not traditions of men, but the Traditions which Jesus left the Apostles.


Choice, in mind and heart, I will walk in the light of Christ and with Christ as One.

John 12:35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.

John 12:36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.


Hebrew 13:15 By Him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to His name.

Hebrews 13:21 Make [you perfect] in every good work to do [His will,] working in you that which is wellpleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.





But you believe in Sola Scriptura, do you not?

Sincerely,

De Maria

I never heard of this phase Sola Scriptura until I visited this forum. But I will note this:

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, [not of men, neither by man,] but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;

Note the intended sufficiency of this statement, not of men, neither by man, but by Christ. We walk in the light of Christ, and we walk with Christ. Putting nothing else on us, other then Christ by choice of Free Will..

My Choice:
I believe in the doctrine of Christ, I go to the House of God to give praise honor, and glory to "ONE"
The Spirit of Truth, Our Father;
The Blood and Saving Grace of The Word, The Son;
The Water of Baptism , The Holy Ghost.

1 John 5: 6-7 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is Truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in ONE.

Christ ' Doctrine

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

John 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Deu 32:2-4 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of Truth and without iniquity, just and right [is] He.

Those Who Rule as Man

Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the Word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of [their] conversation.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and forever.

There is one master, and we receive from Him strong censure or severe reproof. Because we do offend many thing in all we do. But if we don't offend the Word, if we exhort Christ , His doctrine, all that is Christ, the same is a perfect man in perfect faith, able to bridle the whole body.

Correct. But you seemed to be reducing this to bridling the teacher. Whereas, St. James is talking about bridling the tongue in every situation:

St. James 4 8 But the tongue no man can tame, an unquiet evil, full of deadly poison. 9 By it we bless God and the Father: and by it we curse men, who are made after the likeness of God. 10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.


As you see DeMaria, we differ in what is opinon of being said. The offend of word, is that Christ is the WORD, and what many things we offend, bridle [not to] offend Christ the WORD.

I hope you don't disagree with that. Because Scripture is clear:

Matthew 12 36 But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment.

2 Thessalonians 2 16 Exhort your hearts, and confirm you in every good work and word.


We will be judged by every word that we speak.


Eph 4 tells us Eph 4:3-6 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who [is above all], and through all, and in you all.

You all Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

This was done Eph 4:8-10 herefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

There is no mention of different dominations by name, but there by the measure fo gifts given grace of the gift of Christ to Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Choice goes to follow what Christ has offered as gifts to all. We are all God's children, and we are all loved. We have choice to be one with Christ. The church is the house of God where God is the Pillar. God's house is to be entered giving praise, honor and glory to "ONE" The father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

All that is Catholic Teaching.


Yes I agree, and to show that love we serve Him, we follow Him, we exhort Him.

John 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will [my] Father honour.

1. Serve Christ
2. Follow Christ
3. Where Christ exists
4. We exist in Christ

5. Serve Christ
6. Our Father honor those who serve Christ

Note 1 and 5 are to serve Christ... We our to exhort Christ in all things..

That is correct. But especially by participating in the Bread and the Cup:
1 Corinthians 11 26 For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall show the death of the Lord, until he come.


Being baptizes is being one with Christ. Those baptized are given the Holy Spirit which reveals belief or faith in Christ, and baptism gives you grace being dead to sin, and alive with Christ (New Life) opening the door to heaven.

Amen. Baptism is a Tradition of God which we must keep.


Christ holds all hope to those that believe in Him.

And belief is proved by obedience:
Romans 1 5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith, in all nations, for his name;

Romans 16 26 (Which now is made manifest by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the precept of the eternal God, for the obedience of faith,) known among all nations;


Christ is the Key that opened the door. As a baptized believer one individual becomes one with Christ, a perfecting saint, as was Peter, Paul, phophets,evangelists, pastors, teachers, apostles.. a fellowship in Christ/communian of saints.
None of these are followers of men,

Why yes. Many are followers of men. Being a follower of man does not mean that you don't follow Christ.

Romans 4 12 And might be the father of circumcision; not to them only, that are of the circumcision, but to them also that follow the steps of the faithful, that is in the uncircumcision of our father Abraham.

Hebrews 13 7 Remember your prelates who have spoken the word of God to you; whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation,

1 Cor 11 1 Be ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ.

And that is in accordance with Scripture


because none is brought to them by man, but it is brought by Christ. Should you follow man the individual can be deceived because he is not a believer in Truth as it is written of the doctrine in Christ.

The doctrine of Christ says to follow men of the Church. As they follow Christ.


Joshua 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

2 Kings 22:13 Go ye, enquire of the LORD for me, and for the people, and for all Judah, concerning the words of this book that is found: for great [is] the wrath of the LORD that is kindled against us, because our fathers have not hearkened unto the words of this book, to do according unto all that which is written concerning us.

These scriptures make it pretty clear as choice to do all that is written in The Word. Christ is the Word. As are those in Revelation

And the Word shall not depart out of thy mouth. Therefore there is no such thing as Scripture alone.

We must believe Scripture and practice the Traditions revealed in Scripture.
We must Teach:
Matthew 28 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

Baptize:
Matthew 28 19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Eat His Flesh:
John 6 52 If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world.

Drink His Blood:
1 Corinthians 11 25 In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.

Keep the Feast:
1 Corinthians 5 7 Purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new paste, as you are unleavened. For Christ our pasch is sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us feast, not with the old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Remember the Assembly:
Hebrews 10 25 Not forsaking our assembly, as some are accustomed; but comforting one another, and so much the more as you see the day approaching.

So we keep Scripture and Tradition. Not Scripture alone.


Revelation1:2-3 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

and keep those things which are written therein

AMEN!!


Plus 1 Corinthians 10:1-11 tells us why it was all written so that we would not be ignornant in this earth. It does go on in 1 Corinthians 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Choice, in mind and heart, I will walk in the light of Christ and with Christ as One.

John 12:35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.

John 12:36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.


Hebrew 13:15 By Him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to His name.

Hebrews 13:21 Make [you perfect] in every good work to do [His will,] working in you that which is wellpleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

I never heard of this phase Sola Scriptura until I visited this forum. But I will note this:

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, [not of men, neither by man,] but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;

Note the intended sufficiency of this statement, not of men, neither by man, but by Christ. We walk in the light of Christ, and we walk with Christ. Putting nothing else on us, other then Christ by choice of Free Will..

My Choice:
I believe in the doctrine of Christ, I go to the House of God to give praise honor, and glory to "ONE"
The Spirit of Truth, Our Father;
The Blood and Saving Grace of The Word, The Son;
The Water of Baptism , The Holy Ghost.

1 John 5: 6-7 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is Truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in ONE.

Christ ' Doctrine

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

John 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Deu 32:2-4 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of Truth and without iniquity, just and right [is] He.

Those Who Rule as Man

Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the Word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of [their] conversation.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and forever.

Sola Scriptura is the idea that the Bible is the source of all doctrines. Scripture itself doesn't say this, therefore, by its own definition, this is a false doctrine.

Scripture also says that men were appointed to rule over our souls. So, anyone who disobeys these men, disobeys God. Because God tells us to obey them:

Hebrews 13 17 Obey your prelates, and be subject to them. For they watch as being to render an account of your souls; that they may do this with joy, and not with grief. For this is not expedient for you.

Good talking to you.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Correct. But you seemed to be reducing this to bridling the teacher. Whereas, St. James is talking about bridling the tongue in every situation:

St. James 4 8 But the tongue no man can tame, an unquiet evil, full of deadly poison. 9 By it we bless God and the Father: and by it we curse men, who are made after the likeness of God. 10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

Any that speak of the doctrine of Christ. Reason: Because there should be no shame in The Spirit of Truth.



I hope you don't disagree with that. Because Scripture is clear:

Matthew 12 36 But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment.

2 Thessalonians 2 16 Exhort your hearts, and confirm you in every good work and word.


We will be judged by every word that we speak.

Agree.. Walking in the Light = Lamp of the Law = Walking in Christ as one in Christ



All that is Catholic Teaching.

All that is The Spirit of Truth from Our Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost
One can not take what Our Father has given as a gift and say it is his to now re-gift.
Our Father alone reveals The Spirit of Truth by the seed that is planted of Christ. It is not called exhortation of the Catholic Church, it is exhortation of the Truth of Our Father.
No other above The Spirit of Truth, and One being The Son is in the same with Our Father. Bridle the tongue and follow the heart and mind in free will in ONE.



That is correct. But especially by participating in the Bread and the Cup:
1 Corinthians 11 26 For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall show the death of the Lord, until he come.

Amen. Baptism is a Tradition of God which we must keep.


Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.





And belief is proved by obedience:
Romans 1 5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith, in all nations, for his name;

Romans 16 26 (Which now is made manifest by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the precept of the eternal God, for the obedience of faith,) known among all nations;

Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.




Why yes. Many are followers of men. Being a follower of man does not mean that you don't follow Christ.

Romans 4 12 And might be the father of circumcision; not to them only, that are of the circumcision, but to them also that follow the steps of the faithful, that is in the uncircumcision of our father Abraham.

Hebrews 13 7 Remember your prelates who have spoken the word of God to you; whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation,

1 Cor 11 1 Be ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ.

And that is in accordance with Scripture


Read aliitle further in 1 Cor 11:1 thr 11:3.
Perhaps for you as a woman.. but I too am female, and choice to follow my heart in Christ, and not man.

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

Also I am baptized in a full coverage of the body, washed into a New Life in Christ.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.





The doctrine of Christ says to follow men of the Church. As they follow Christ.

And the Word shall not depart out of thy mouth. Therefore there is no such thing as Scripture alone.

We must believe Scripture and practice the Traditions revealed in Scripture.
We must Teach:
Matthew 28 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

Baptize:
Matthew 28 19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Eat His Flesh:
John 6 52 If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world.

Drink His Blood:
1 Corinthians 11 25 In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.

Keep the Feast:
1 Corinthians 5 7 Purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new paste, as you are unleavened. For Christ our pasch is sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us feast, not with the old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Remember the Assembly:
Hebrews 10 25 Not forsaking our assembly, as some are accustomed; but comforting one another, and so much the more as you see the day approaching.

So we keep Scripture and Tradition. Not Scripture alone.

and keep those things which are written therein

AMEN!!!

Choice... The Word of Truth, The Word is Christ, Gifted by The Holy Ghost.

What you call traditions: in baptism, commemoration of bread and blood, passover are actually ordained in The Spirit of Truth by Our Father.

Traditional celebration of the birth of Christ is an example of what man has brought. Exhortation of His birth, and the Life that brought us life.



Sola Scriptura is the idea that the Bible is the source of all doctrines. Scripture itself doesn't say this, therefore, by its own definition, this is a false doctrine.

Scripture also says that men were appointed to rule over our souls. So, anyone who disobeys these men, disobeys God. Because God tells us to obey them:

[I]Hebrews 13 17 Obey your prelates, and be subject to them. For they watch as being to render an account of your souls; that they may do this with joy, and not with grief. For this is not expedient for you.

Good talking to you.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Choice again...
1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

All souls belong to God, and Christ will judge.

Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are Mine; as the soul of The Father, so also the soul of the Son is Mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Choice putting my soul in the hands of Christ is my choice. And His Will be done.

Any that speak of the doctrine of Christ. Reason: Because there should be no shame in The Spirit of Truth.

Agree.. Walking in the Light = Lamp of the Law = Walking in Christ as one in Christ

Sounds as though we agree.


All that is The Spirit of Truth from Our Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost
One can not take what Our Father has given as a gift and say it is his to now re-gift.

That is exactly what we are supposed to do. We are not supposed to keep it to ourselves.


Our Father alone reveals The Spirit of Truth by the seed that is planted of Christ. It is not called exhortation of the Catholic Church, it is exhortation of the Truth of Our Father.

It is both. Once you accept it, it is yours also. We all recognize that it comes from the Father. Note how the Jews called it the Apostles doctrine:
Acts Of Apostles 5 28 Saying: Commanding we commanded you, that you should not teach in this name; and behold, you have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and you have a mind to bring the blood of this man upon us.


Did the Apostles deny it? NO! Even St. Luke called it the Apostles' doctrine as well:
Acts Of Apostles 2 42 And they were persevering in the doctrine of the apostles, and in the communication of the breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Jesus put it this way:
Luke 10 16 He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.



No other above The Spirit of Truth, and One being The Son is in the same with Our Father. Bridle the tongue and follow the heart and mind in free will in ONE.

Agreed.



Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.





Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.





Read aliitle further in 1 Cor 11:1 thr 11:3.
Perhaps for you as a woman.. but I too am female, and choice to follow my heart in Christ, and not man.

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

Also I am baptized in a full coverage of the body, washed into a New Life in Christ.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.





Choice... The Word of Truth, The Word is Christ, Gifted by The Holy Ghost.

What you call traditions: in baptism, commemoration of bread and blood, passover are actually ordained in The Spirit of Truth by Our Father.


They are traditions nonetheless. They are traditions ordained in the Spirit of Truth by Our Father. But they are traditions and that is why Scripture says:
2 Thessalonians 2 14 Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.


Traditional celebration of the birth of Christ is an example of what man has brought. Exhortation of His birth, and the Life that brought us life.

There are some of man's traditions which are not in line with the will of God. But there are some which are perfectly in line with the will of God. The celebration of Jesus' birth is one of them.

In fact, God made the stars in the sky so that we could keep the times and the seasons and so that we could celebrate His Creation and His role in our Salvation. That is why all the feasts of the Old Testament and all the feasts of the Church are celebrated in worship.

The Church calendar is the celebration of God's sanctifying time. We celebrate every day as God's day, because time is God's. That is why we "eat our daily bread" in assembly if at all possible. EVERY DAY.

This is from Scripture:
Acts Of Apostles 2 46 And continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they took their meat with gladness and simplicity of heart;


Choice again...
1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

All souls belong to God, and Christ will judge.

Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are Mine; as the soul of The Father, so also the soul of the Son is Mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Choice putting my soul in the hands of Christ is my choice. And His Will be done.

I agree with all of that. But God put men here to pastor our souls. Therefore, I don't consider them as stumbling blocks to my faith. But I consider them men of God whose faith I am to follow.

Hebrews 13 7 Remember your prelates who have spoken the word of God to you; whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation,

The importance of the Church can't be overemphasized:
Ephesians 3 10 That the manifold wisdom of God may be made known to the principalities and powers in heavenly places through the church,

Sincerely,

De Maria

De Maria,
I think you have sum it up quite well and that you ARE a very good teacher.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I agree with all of that. But God put men here to pastor our souls. Therefore, I don't consider them as stumbling blocks to my faith. But I consider them men of God whose faith I am to follow.

Hebrews 13 7 Remember your prelates who have spoken the word of God to you; whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation,

The importance of the Church can't be overemphasized:
Ephesians 3 10 That the manifold wisdom of God may be made known to the principalities and powers in heavenly places through the church,

Sincerely,

De Maria

Choice.... note the scripture manifold wisdom of God.. His Spiritual Truth

KNOW THE FOUR "W's"
1. WHO? CHRIST
2.WHERE? JERUSALEM
3.WHEN? PASSOVER
4.WHY? TO SAVE THE WORLD FROM DEATH


In 1 Corinthians 2, Paul comes to straighten the church out because it began to worship man and follow foolishness of man.

1 Corinthians2:1-2 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1 Corinthains 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Paul assures the power of Christ is over all. And that no man should glory in their own work, beause it is Christ that is present, to hold all glory for what can be and is.

1 Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

1 Corinthians 1:27-29 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, " He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord." ( Jeremiah 9:23-24 )

Not the enticing words of man in traditions

1 Corinthains 2:4-5 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

No wisdom found in man

1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. ( Isaish 64:4)

Christ is the High Priest, The Head of the Church in God's House. Christ is power over all authorities. We are subject to being a servant to Christ and His Will be done.

Hebrews 10: 21-24 And having an High Priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for He is faithful that promised) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

1 Peter 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers, being made subject unto Him.

1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

The church does not baptize, but the Holy Ghost baptizes. Power is in the hands of God. We look to Christ to follow Him. Christ is present through the Holy Spirit. We call upon Him and He will answer.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and {{{ they follow me:}}}

John 10:30 I and My Father are one.

De Maria,
I think you have sum it up quite well and that you ARE a very good teacher.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Another follower of man in praise? Praise in glory to man's traditions rather then The Spiritual Truth Our Father. What do you follow at Passover Season? The traditions of man, and the Easter eggs? Double mindedness perhaps?..

DeMaria should Fred praise what you offer (or) give praise to what God reveals in scripture?

Fred if DeMaria is gifted in teaching, then who desires the praise ?

I pray thee to know the truth.. follow Christ who receives all glory honor and praise.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, " He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord." ( Jeremiah 9:23-24 )

sndbay and De Maria,
I praise both of you for a great discussion using God's word.
There is nothing in the bible that says we should NOT honor those who speak and do well.
We should all keep in mind that the bible is full of what men have said. The Christian religion is based on what men have said including, but not limited, the words of the God/Man Jesus Christ.
We should also keep in mind that the Holy Spirit DID NOT stop inspiring people after Christ's physical time on earth.
He inspired the promulgation of the Bible and other men long after that including The Church Fathers after the Bible was put together.
Great theologians yet today are inspired.
Without the theologians of today and yesteryears we would not have much of the understanding of Scripture and its traditions that we have today.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Choice.... note the scripture manifold wisdom of God.. His Spiritual Truth

KNOW THE FOUR "W's"
1. WHO? CHRIST
2.WHERE? JERUSALEM
3.WHEN? PASSOVER
4.WHY? TO SAVE THE WORLD FROM DEATH

Where did you get these four "w's"? From man or from Scripture?


In 1 Corinthians 2, Paul comes to straighten the church out because it began to worship man and follow foolishness of man.

1 Corinthians2:1-2 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1 Corinthains 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Paul assures the power of Christ is over all. And that no man should glory in their own work, beause it is Christ that is present, to hold all glory for what can be and is.

1 Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

1 Corinthians 1:27-29 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, " He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord." ( Jeremiah 9:23-24 )

Not the enticing words of man in traditions

1 Corinthains 2:4-5 And my speech and my preaching

MY SPEECH AND MY PREACHING

Here St. Paul takes possession of the Word of God and makes it his. That is the example we follow.


was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

No wisdom found in man

Is St. Paul a man? He calls the Gospel "my" speech and "my" preaching.


1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. ( Isaish 64:4)

Christ is the High Priest, The Head of the Church in God's House. Christ is power over all authorities. We are subject to being a servant to Christ and His Will be done.

Hebrews 10: 21-24 And having an High Priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for He is faithful that promised) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

1 Peter 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers, being made subject unto Him.

1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

The church does not baptize, but the Holy Ghost baptizes.

But Scripture says that we baptize WITH water and the Holy Ghost:
John 3 5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Show me where Scripture says the Holy Ghost baptizes.


Power is in the hands of God. We look to Christ to follow Him. Christ is present through the Holy Spirit. We call upon Him and He will answer.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and {{{ they follow me:}}}

John 10:30 I and My Father are one.

We also obey Christ. And Christ told us to hear the Church.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Another follower of man in praise?

Do you not permit anyone to praise anybody else?


Praise in glory to man's traditions rather then The Spiritual Truth Our Father.

Praise in glory to God's traditions which are taught by men in obedience to the Word of God.


What do you follow at Passover Season?

Christ is our Passover
1 Corinthians 5 7 Purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new paste, as you are unleavened. For Christ our pasch is sacrificed.

Our Passover is celebrated daily:
Acts Of Apostles 2 46 And continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they took their meat with gladness and simplicity of heart;

1 Corinthians 11 2 Now I praise you, brethren, that in all things you are mindful of me: and keep my ordinances as I have delivered them to you.



The traditions of man, and the Easter eggs? Double mindedness perhaps?..

We follow all of Scripture. And Scripture does not condemn all traditions of men. Only those which contradict God's word.


DeMaria should Fred praise what you offer (or) give praise to what God reveals in scripture?

Why should he not praise what is worthy of praise in man and what God reveals through His Traditions as well as through Scripture.


Fred if DeMaria is gifted in teaching, then who desires the praise ?

Can you honestly say that you don't desire praise if you do something that is worthy of praise?

As for me, I thank God if I have done something praiseworthy.


I pray thee to know the truth.. follow Christ who receives all glory honor and praise.

What? Did you leave out these verses of Scripture?
1 Corinthians 11 1 Be ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ.

Philippians 3 17 Be ye followers of me, brethren, and observe them who walk so as you have our model.


1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, " He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord." ( Jeremiah 9:23-24 )

Where does that verse say we must not praise men?

And what do you do with these?
Romans 13 3 For princes are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? Do that which is good: and thou shalt have praise from the same.

1 Corinthians 11 2 Now I praise you, brethren, that in all things you are mindful of me: and keep my ordinances as I have delivered them to you.

1 Peter 2 14 Or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of the good:

Sincerely,

De Maria

sndbay[/B]]When we discuss Christianity, is there fear of causing more harm then good? Should we avoid it?

Titus 3:8-11 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. 9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


YES!

Show me where Scripture says the Holy Ghost baptizes.

We also obey Christ. And Christ told us to hear the Church.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Believe in the Holy Spirit and His mission (John 16:7-14; Acts 2).

John 16:7-14 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on Me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see Me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify Me: for He shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Holy Spirit in Baptism, destories evil that brings sin

1 Peter 3:20-21 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 John 5: 6-7 This is He that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is Truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Believe in the Holy Spirit and His mission (John 16:7-14; Acts 2).

John 16:7-14 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on Me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see Me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify Me: for He shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Holy Spirit in Baptism, destories evil that brings sin

1 Peter 3:20-21 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 John 5: 6-7 This is He that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is Truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

All those say that we RECEIVE the Holy Ghost in baptism. Not that the Holy Ghost baptizes.

The Church baptizes and we received the Holy Ghost.

Sincerely,

De Maria

All those say that we RECEIVE the Holy Ghost in baptism. Not that the Holy Ghost baptizes.

The Church baptizes and we received the Holy Ghost.

Sincerely,

De Maria

End of Discussion For me, because my choice is the Holy Spirit in baptism as "One" with the Father and Christ will save me. Forever Amen..

1 Peter 3:20-21 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


DeMaria ... Your choice in the Catholic Church to baptize ... saving you

My door is closed..

Sdnbay,
Yes, from biblical times it is men of The Church who baptize so that we can receive the Holly Spirit. The Holy Spirit comes during that work of sacred ceremony.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sdnbay,
Yes, from biblical times it is men of The Church who baptize so that we can receive the Holly Spirit. The Holy Spirit comes during that work of sacred ceremony.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

To realize the disciples were servants of the Lord's, as the church ceremony is today a service done by a servant, and that The Holy Spirit decends upon with His power of baptism, washing the wickedness so that we receive new life, and Christ' blood was His power to receive forgiveness for sins. All in agreement in heaven and earth as "ONE" The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

To suggest otherwise is turning to man as god. in mind a delusion in reaping what choice was made in free will.

Nothing is done upon this earth except by which the Holy Ghost will do.. 8 And when He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on Me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see Me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify Me: for He shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.

Thus blessings from Our Father, or reap what you have sown in free will. Choice. Grace and mercy from the Father

John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of My hand.

John 10:29 My Father, which gave them Me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 10:30 I and [My] Father are "ONE".

YES!

I have learned that feelings change, so there is no point in getting overly attached to them.

1He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.



True.. tsila777

The Holy Spirit is the comforter and He brings change to those who walk in Christ if need be. We as children of God can only plant the seed of hope by what is written. Our Lord alone will reveal.

Jeremiah 33:6 Behold, I will bring it health and cure, and I will cure them, and will reveal unto them the abundance of peace and truth.

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me.

sndbay,
Then please tell us why God chise men to be His servants and instituted ceremonies and activities for them to do in service to Him and his people?
I am a servant of God and his creations. Do you mean that I and others should not be?
The work of God on earth is through and by him and also His followers and servants who do his work.
Should all the clergy quit and not do as God instructs?
Jesus tells us that He is the vine and we are the branches which are to bear fruit. Are we to ignore that?
Why did he tell men to do the baptizing?
Are we to ignore that?
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

sndbay,
Then please tell us why God chise men to be His servants and instituted ceremonies and activities for them to do in service to Him and his people?
I am a servant of God and his creations. Do you mean that I and others should not be?
The work of God on earth is through and by him and also His followers and servants who do his work.
Should all the clergy quit and not do as God instructs?
Jesus tells us that He is the vine and we are the branches which are to bear fruit. Are we to ignore that?
Why did he tell men to do the baptizing?
Are we to ignore that?
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

When you as a servant call upon Christ.. ]{{{in the name of Jesus Christ}}} that is calling upon Christ to have The Holy Ghost baptize..
Ask anything in My name and it will be done..(You are calling upon Him) Christ is the power.
When you walk in Christ, you walk in His light which is the lamp of His Law. A child of God understands that He is above all, so we walk in Him and with Him. Present in the Holy Ghost. Christ is the vine.. the vine to The Father who gave Him charge over all.


Do you think He is weak and needs man? No way! Seek the Lord God with all your heart and mind. The Spirit of God will come upon anyone who calls in His name. The Spirit of God is the Holy Ghost. "ONE" ..being The Father , Son, Holy Ghost.. Have you not heard this?

1 Corinthains 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Man has no power.. Man is not a god.. Rebuke the idea of foolish deception from the prince of this earth, satan.

1 Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Power of Christ
1 Corinthians 1:27-29 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:That no flesh should glory in his presence

Everyone should be baptized in a pool of water, or a lake of water, as Our Father in scripture has commanded. The disciples did not call upon Christ to baptize using water that they carried in animal skin. The intention of full coverage is like the flood of Noah, to destroy wickness for new life. Christ blood then is for forgiveness of sin which the wickness had done.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The three as "One"

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and {{{ they follow me:}}}

John 10:30 I and My Father are "ONE."


1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

If You Follow Man, you are spiritually discerned

1Corinthains 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Door Closed...