I have located my main line under my concreted slab and have dug trench to accommodate line for toilet and shower. Do I run my 4" for my toilet hooking into my main using two 45 degree bends? The shower is beyond the toilet. Do I just connect to the 4" with the shower drain anywhere at all once I bring it past the toilet? Where exactly does the vent pipe get attached on these two pipes?

Private Message: hooking into main line
Yesterday, 10:29 PM
mickeyrory
New Member Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1


Hooking into main line

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Hello Tom,
Know you are gone from original site I was asking question on. Nobody answered any more questions I asked. Thanks for the help. I have located my main drain and dug up a trench for the toilet and shower drains. They will approach at a 90 degree angle. Will I hook into the main by using two 45 degrees, one just before getting to the main and the other to hook into? Also, my shower is beyond the toilet so is it o.k. to hook the shower drain into the toilet drain anywhere between the toilet and main? I told you I have a vent pipe just for these two fixtures. Can I hook these two fixtures into the vent anywhere between the toilet and main line? On exposing the main drain I have unearted part of a section that appears to be a clean out. Is that possible? Why would there be such a thing as the main line runs under my basement floor? It is not capped off, just open. Of course I didn't expose the whole portion so I don't know 100% if it is in fact what it appears to be. If it is does it confirm which direction the flow is? I ask because I have found no outside evidence of which direction it would hook into the city sewer. Would putting a level on it tell me with certainty? Appreciate any help.

Thanks again
Mickey

Hey Mickey, Nice to see you again. I took a year off from All Experts to devote more time to building up this page.
1) "I have located my main drain and dug up a trench for the toilet and shower drains. They will approach at a 90 degree angle. Will I hook into the main by using two 45 degrees, one just before getting to the main and the other to hook into?"
You will connect to the main using a combination Wye and eighth bend, (a eighth bend is a 45 degree bend).
2) "my shower is beyond the toilet so is it o.k. to hook the shower drain into the toilet drain anywhere between the toilet and main?"
Not unless you run a separate vent for the shower. You may wet vent the shower by connecting back to a lavatory drain.
3) "I have a vent pipe just for these two fixtures. Can I hook these two fixtures into the vent anywhere between the toilet and main line?"
If this is a dry vent,( no other fixtures draining into it) you may tie the two vents back any place you wish.
4)" I have unearthed part of a section that appears to be a clean out. Is that possible? why would there be such a thing as the main line runs under my basement floor? It is not capped off, just open."
If it's open and under the slab then that would indicate a line that has been discontinued. Why else would a drain be left open for dirt to fall into and stop it up.
5) " if it is in fact what it appears to be. If it is does it confirm which direction the flow is? I ask because I have found no outside evidence of which direction it would hook into the city sewer. Would putting a level on it tell me with certainty?"
"Putting a level on it would indicate the direction the branch took but putting a level on the main would tell you more. It would give you the direction of flow and since we attempt to keep out mains straight then following the mains direction should give you a pretty good idea of where the main exits the house. Good luck, Tom

Tom,
I just need to clarify what you said below.
"my shower is beyond the toilet so is it o.k. to hook the shower drain into the toilet drain anywhere between the toilet and main?"
Not unless you run a separate vent for the shower.
The vent I ran is a dry vent directly to the outside. This is what I had planned. My drain for my shower would come past the toilet and then I would vent it. A foot down the line I would tie it into the toilet drain. The toilet drain would be vented near here also. They would go up inside my wall and tie together and then connect to the dry vent that I have installed. Does venting the shower drain before I tie into the toilet drain constitute a separate vent per your answer above? That's what I'm not clear about.

3) "I have a vent pipe just for these two fixtures. Can I hook these two fixtures into the vent anywhere between the toilet and main line?"
If this is a dry vent,( no other fixtures draining into it) you may tie the two vents back any place you wish.

Hey Mickey,

"My drain for my shower would come past the toilet and then I would vent it. A foot down the line"
Mickey, I don't care if the vent's a inch down the line. You're stll discharging a major fixture past a unvented minor one. Perhaps if you moved the vent vent upstream of the shower or connected directly to the shower drain it would fly but not the way you describe. Can you move the shower vent? Regards, Tom See you in the morning, I'm kicking back!

Tom,

My drain for my shower would come past the toilet and then I would vent it.
Mickey, I don't care if the vent's a inch down the line. You're stll discharging a major fixture past a unvented minor one.
So what makes this not work is that if the shower drain isn't vented before it's tied into the toilet drain, my shower trap would be siphoned dry by the discharge from the toilet as it goes by the tied in shower drain. Is that correct?
If that's correct, would this work? About three feet from my shower drain trap I would vent the shower drain. The drain would continue and be tied into the toilet drain just before the toilet drain is tied into the main drain. The toilet drain would be vented just before the shower drain is tied into it.

Mickey

Hey Mickey,

"So what makes this not work is that if the shower drain isn't vented before it's tied into the toilet drain, my shower trap would be siphoned dry by the discharge from the toilet as it goes by the tied in shower drain. Is that correct?"
Right!

"would this work? About three feet from my shower drain trap I would vent the shower drain. The drain would continue and be tied into the toilet drain just before the toilet drain is tied into the main drain. The toilet drain would be vented just before the shower drain is tied into it."
I'll buy that. Your shower would be vented by code and the toilet would be wet vented through the same vent
Mickey, In the future could you post back to this thread instead of starting a new one every time you post? It saves space and me the hassle of merging the posts. Thanks, Tom

Tom
I haven't located a cleanout for my main line nor will I. The plummer at Home Depot said I should put a cleanout on my toilet drain just before tying into the main. The reason is only for testing the system. It would be the only access I would have to block off the water flow to do the test. Would that be your suggestion?
Do I understand you correctly that my closet would be wet vented because the shower drain which is vented is tied into it? I had planned to vent it separately but if that does the trick, all the better.
How important is the slope of the vent? It is horizental for a good distance in the attic because I am exiting through the side of my house. In my mind(no comment) it doesn't seem like enough condensation would be in the pipe to make much difference as far as allowing air into the system.

Hey Mickey,
"The plummer at Home Depot said I should put a cleanout on my toilet drain just before tying into the main. The reason is only for testing the system. It would be the only access I would have to block off the water flow to do the test. Would that be your suggestion?"

What test? A static drainage test? Dd you pull a permit that calls for a inspection?

"Do I understand you correctly that my closet would be wet vented because the shower drain which is vented is tied into it? I had planned to vent it separately but if that does the trick, all the better."

The toilet will be vented by the system. Unless local code calls for a toilet to have its own vent you're OK.

"How important is the slope of the vent? It is horizental for a good distance in the attic because I am exiting through the side of my house. In my mind(no comment) it doesn't seem like enough condensation would be in the pipe to make much difference as far as allowing air into the system."

From the highest point you will slope the vent back 1/4" to the foot. However if that's too much fall you may reduce back to 1/8th inch to the foot if necessary.
Good luck, tom

Tom,
What test? A static drainage test? Dd you pull a permit that calls for a inspection?
I think he said to put a plummers ball into the drain to block it and then fill it with water to see if there were any leaks. Not exactly sure but that seemed to be his point. No, I didn't pull a permit so I don't need to worry about that aspect but would still like to be sure it's o.k. Anything simple I could do that would satisfy the question of leaks?

If you fill the stack s with water and check for leaks, that's called a static water test. The static test is done by blocking off ALL DRAINS, filling the stacks with water and letting them set all night where a inspection will uncover any leaks. These drains are blocked off with inflatable rubber test balls and test caps on the smaller stubouts. Good luck and let me know how you made out. Tom

Tom
I will install a cleanout so I can put one of these inflatable test balls in to block the drain. Would it be sufficient for me to then fill all the pipes I've installed with water and let them sit overnight or do I also have to fill the vent pipes also.

Another question--In tying into the main drain does the whye get attached at 1/4 in. a foot, that is, the same slope as the drain or can there be a drop. I ask because if I have the drain at that slope I have to make a drop at the toilet or the main drain, one or the other. I am only going about six feet between toilet and main so I'm wondering where the major drop would be. Thanks again for your help.

Mickey

Mickey,

Cap everything off and fill from the roof vents.

"In tying into the main drain does the whye get attached at 1/4 in. a foot, that is, the same slope as the drain or can there be a drop. I ask because if I have the drain at that slope I have to make a drop at the toilet or the main drain,"

That depends. How much of a drop are we talking about? I need more information. Give me a fitting by fitting explanation, I'm having a problem visualizing your set up. Thanks. Tom

Tom,
I didn't quite think this through. The toilet is five feet from the main drain and the top of the main drain is about 8 inches below the floor level.There won't be much of a difference after connecting the fittings to the flange. A 1/4 in. drop would just about do it but say there is an inch more of a drop; would I add that to the drop at the toilet or to the slope of the pipe? This brings up another question though. Do I use a 90 degree bend from the flange or two 45's or is it just a matter of preference or how much drop is available? Thanks.

Mickey

Tom,
I didn't quite think this through. The toilet is five feet from the main drain and the top of the main drain is about 8 inches below the floor level.There won't be much of a difference after connecting the fittings to the flange. A 1/4 in. drop would just about do it but say there is an inch more of a drop; would I add that to the drop at the toilet or to the slope of the pipe? This brings up another question though. Do I use a 90 degree bend from the flange or two 45's or is it just a matter of preference or how much drop is available? Thanks.

Mickey
Hey Mick,
At five feet from flange you'll have a drop of 1 1/4". If there is 8" differential then I would tale up the extra inches in the drop from the flange to the correct elevation.

" Do I use a 90 degree bend from the flange or two 45's or is it just a matter of preference or how much drop is available?"

You may use a closet bend or a 90 degree elbo to connect to the flanges stubup. Make al, your measurements center to center and you'll be just fine.
Good luck and have a great week end. Tom

Tom,
Just out of curiousity, on a 20 ft. section of pipe that drops 1/4 in. a foot for a total of four inches. I have a four ft. level and I've accounted for a one inch drop over that four feet by attaching a piece of one inch wood to the end. My question is after raising the pipe four inches should my level be showing level anywhere along the length of the pipe?

Mickey

Tom,
Just out of curiousity, on a 20 ft. section of pipe that drops 1/4 in. a foot for a total of four inches. I have a four ft. level and I've accounted for a one inch drop over that four feet by attaching a piece of one inch wood to the end. My question is after raising the pipe four inches should my level be showing level anywhere along the length of the pipe?

Mickey

On your 20' run you would have 5" of fall at 1/4" to the fooi.

"My question is after raising the pipe four inches should my level be showing level anywhere along the length of the pipe?"

We aren't that precise. We just crack the bubble on a level when we tun drainage but with your block on the low end of the pipe it should read level the entire length .
Have a great day! Tom

Tom
I'm having a problem tying the wye into my main line. I've used a rubber collar to connect the plastic and cast iron but can't seem to stop the drip although it's very small. My opinion is that the rubber is so thick that it can't be tightened enough to seal, especially since the cast iron is not exactly smooth. Is there any type of glue or sealer that is used for this purpose? Any suggestions? If not I will try another type that Home Depot has. Appreciate any help.

Mickey

Tom
I'm having a problem tying the wye into my main line. I've used a rubber collar to connect the plastic and cast iron but can't seem to stop the drip although it's very small. My opinion is that the rubber is so thick that it can't be tightened enough to seal, especially since the cast iron is not exactly smooth. Is there any type of glue or sealer that is used for this purpose? Any suggestions? If not I will try another type that Home Depot has. Appreciate any help.

Mickey

Mickey, I don't recoment using Fernco Couplings unless there's no other way.
Rubber couplings tend to sag at the joint unless they are supported. Try a No-Hub Band, (see image) they make No-Hub Bands to convert from cast iron to plastic and the joint is ridged unlike a Fernco Coupling which is not. Regards, Tom

Tom,
Thanks! The no hub band was the other that I had seen. Another question. Would there be a problem with having a 45 degree bend in the line? Here's the way it would go. My flange, the pipe dropping to the 90 degree bend, then the pipe going about two feet and taking a 45 degree turn to the wye tying into the main. Thanks.

Mickey

Tom,
I didn't quite think this through. The toilet is five feet from the main drain and the top of the main drain is about 8 inches below the floor level.There won't be much of a difference after connecting the fittings to the flange. A 1/4 in. drop would just about do it but say there is an inch more of a drop; would I add that to the drop at the toilet or to the slope of the pipe? This brings up another question though. Do I use a 90 degree bend from the flange or two 45's or is it just a matter of preference or how much drop is available? Thanks.

Mickey
Good questions Mickey,
For a 5 foot toilet drain it won't make much difference. However on a longer run It might depending upon how long the run was. Too little slope and you won't get drainage, too much slope and the water will run so fast solids will drop and build up. We try to just crack the bubble on a level when running drainage. You may use a 90 degree elbo for the vertical drop from the flange.
If it were a horizontal run I would suggest a short or long sweep or 45's.
Regards, Tom

Tom,
I've put the no-hub on but the slow leak remains; I'm talking about one drip about every five seconds. I'm thinking a plummer would bury everything regardless. I can't see it being much of a problem but you can tell me if I'm wrong. I will be moving ahead with the water supply pipe installation soon and have tried my hand at soldering. Good seals but sloppy work with the solder. The pre soldered fittings seem great; no mess by this novice. What do you think of them? Should I start a new post for this?

Good morning Mickey,
A small drainage leak will heal itself in time, while a pressure leak will only get worse. Myself? I'd let it go but if it disturbs you undo the clamp and run a small rope of putty on the side that leaks and retighten.
If you are having a little trouble with soldering why not just use cold solder:
http://www.justforcopper.com/
Let me know, Tom

Tom,
When I originally located my main drain under my cement I put a torpedo level on it and it indicated the slope of the pipe to be the opposite of what it is. Since I had rented a jack hammer I broke through leaving more room on one side to accommodate the whye so it would be lined up with my intended drain. Before I began the tie in I got the local water and sewer people out to make sure and that's when I found out it flowed the opposite way. My house is situated so that it could have been in either direction to go out to a street. I have installed my 3in. Pipe for my toilet and it is exactly 1 1/4 in. rise over the five feet from the main line to where the toilet will be. I hadn't connected the flange and 90 degree to the line but left the drain leading up to it uncapped. There is evidence that what is flowing through my main line backs up through this new line. Would this be happening because I left the end uncapped and it draws this waste up? I would think that everything would just go on past the line. I don't have or have I ever had any problem with any blockage. Since I don't quite know what is normal with any of this I want to make sure it's correct before anything is buried. I know with the buildup of sludge in the main drain that the wye not having this buildup would be slightly lower. Appreciate your input.

Mickey

Mickey,
Would it be possible to make a drawing of what you have done so far showing the direction of flow and attach it to your next post? Thanks, tom

Tom,
I'll send a drawing when I can find someone to scan it. In the meantime if you can picture this. Draw a line from left to right to illustrate my main line. The flow is from left to right. My wye is fitted into the main line so that the drainage coming from the branch of the wye goes with the flow of the main line. My new line is downstream of all discharges in my house except my floor drain in my basement which is about two feet downstream of where I'm working. When I had the main line open I poured some water down this floor drain and even though the flow goes away from this opening I did have some water back up and out the opening. Is what I did with the keyboard enough to illustrate? When posted the slanted line that illustrated the wye is displaced, it should be with the other dash marks and show the direction the wye enters the main line.

Flow from left to right wye
------------------------------/-----------------------------------
l
l
l
l
O toilet

Tom,
I'll send a drawing when I can find someone to scan it. In the meantime if you can picture this. Draw a line from left to right to illustrate my main line. The flow is from left to right. My wye is fitted into the main line so that the drainage coming from the branch of the wye goes with the flow of the main line. My new line is downstream of all discharges in my house except my floor drain in my basement which is about two feet downstream of where I'm working. When I had the main line open I poured some water down this floor drain and even though the flow goes away from this opening I did have some water back up and out the opening. Is what I did with the keyboard enough to illustrate? When posted the slanted line that illustrated the wye is displaced, it should be with the other dash marks and show the direction the wye enters the main line.

flow from left to right wye
------------------------------/-----------------------------------
l
l
l
l
O toilet
"When I had the main line open I poured some water down this floor drain and even though the flow goes away from this opening I did have some water back up and out the opening." This tells me that you have back fall in your drainage and that should be addressed first.
On your drawing I don't see a vent and is the toilet all that you're installing?
Scan me a drawing and check out that back fall before you add anything more. Regards, Tom

Tom,
Again, I'll send a drawing as soon as my daughter gets home and shows me how to operate the scanner. Would back fall mean that there is a buildup in my main line that would cause the drainage to flow back when it gets to that point?

Tom,
Again, I'll send a drawing as soon as my daughter gets home and shows me how to operate the scanner. Would back fall mean that there is a buildup in my main line that would cause the drainage to flow back when it gets to that point?
Backfall simply means that the drain line is sloping backwards. When you have backfall gravity can no longer do its job and the fl,ow will slow down and drop solids. They will build up,and cause a clog. The drainage systen should slope uniformly twards the esit point to operate efficiently. If you have backfall I advise you to fix it before you go any farther. Regards, tom

Tom
What does this entail? Sounds like something for a professional which of course I've been hoping to avoid.

Mickey

Tom
What does this entail? Sounds like something for a professional which of course I've been hoping to avoid.

Mickey

Not really Mickey,

You just open up the cement and track the backfall back to the "bell/dip" in the pipe that caused it. You then block the line back up until the correct slope is reached. Regards, Tom

Tom,
I can't get my scanner working. I'll attempt to describe what I have finished here so maybe in your mind's eye you can picture it. If you drew a vertical line on paper this would be my main line under my basement. The flow would be from top to bottom. My toilet drain extends five feet to the left at the correct slope. My shower is located three feet beyond this but at a 45 degree angle from the toilet, that is, upwards from the toilet. My shower drain is vented near the toilet, about three feet from the shower trap. After the venting the drain continues down the trench towards the main drain. About two feet from the main drain it ties into the toilet drain. I think you told me this would be a wet vent for the toilet. I think it's o.k but if you spot anything you think is not correct, let me know. One thing I had second thoughts about is that the shower drain is vented after taking the 45 degree turn towards the main drain. Thanks again Tom.

Mickey