I've got a 1990 Honday Civic with a 1.5L dual point injection. Just recently (this past month) my car has started to run really rough. The engine shutters when started, cold/hot, idle to highway speed. It almost feels like the spark plug wires are arcing between each other, but it's a constant shudder, no matter if there's load on the engine or no load. So I replaced those, and did not solve it. I've also replaced the fuel pressure regulator, injectors, fuel filter, air filter, cap, coil, and ran injector cleaner through it. While I'm driving to work, within the first 10mins of driving it will spiratically run smooth for 1/2 a second, then go back to bucking. What I have noticed is that during deceleration the engine does not run rough. Would this be a sign that my igniter has kicked the bucket? Or my distributor bearing is shot? No codes coming up from the ECM, and it sounds like the main relay is working properly. Please Help txgreasemonkey!

Within the past 3 days, a local man experienced expensive damage to his new BMW. The vehicle ran well, until he took on a tank of bad fuel at a gas station... the station hadn't been draining water from storage tanks, or the delivery tanker had water from the "tank farm" or something... the case is in court, with everyone from the national gas station brand-to the car owner pointing fingers at each other. You may want to pull a bottom sample from your car tank, to see what you have... good luck...

It does sound like fuel starvation!!

Throttle1982, I think you nailed it. Yes, replace the ignitor. Be sure to apply heat-transfer silicone grease to the back of the new ignitor. When the distributor bearing goes, it's usually an unmistakable sound, which can easily be isolated with a large-handle screwdriver or mechanic's stethoscope.

Have you replaced the spark plugs recently? I only recommend NGK plugs in Hondas.

Yeah the plugs were done maybe a month ago.

Great, thanks txgreasemonkey, I'll try replacing that tonight and get back to you on this!

Here's a detailed break down for the Honda distributors

Anatomy of a B-series Distributor - Team Integra (http://www.team-integra.net/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?get=last&ForumID=13&TopicID=237113)

Does anyone have a part number for this part? I tried looking in the wrecker for this part, but no go...

So I replaced the ICM and the COIL and now it runs rough at idle... :confused: but driving is good now.

Attach a strobe light and check the timing. It may be retarded too much.

This link may help:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-trucks/faq-how-troubleshoot-repair-maintain-hondas-46563.html#post219963

Be sure to clean the throttle body, Idle Air Control Valve, and PCV Valve and hose.

Ok, now the car is running the same as it was before... even with the new igniter... I'm going to try replacing the rotor inside the dist. today, and clean out the IAC.
I've already tried playing with the timing, it was spot on.

This IAC Valve link may help:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-trucks/faq-how-troubleshoot-repair-maintain-hondas-46563-7.html#post1054149

What is that other sensor that is inside the distributor? Is that not a cam position sensor?
What all controls the advancement of the timing other than the ICM and coil? I'm going to try replacing the PCV valve today too and see if that helps.

Unserviceable sensors inside the distributor are the Crankshaft Position Senson, Camshaft Position Sensor, and Top Dead Center Sensor. If there's a problem with any of these sensors, the whole distributor housing needs to be replaced.

The MAP Sensor is involved in advancing timing. Ensure there are no vacuum leaks in the hose running from the throttle body to the MAP Sensor. Ensure the small throttle body fitting the MAP Sensor hose attaches to is clear. Run a very fine wire through it.

Could a worn out rotor cause my problems too?

Is the map sensor, the sensor that is located on the side of the throttle body? It looks like its riveted on? How do I remove it?

A bad rotor can be big problems. The MAP Sensor is usually attached to the firewall and connected to the throttle body by a hose. On newer Hondas, there are two machine screws securing it to the throttle body.

MAP Sensors are very, very reliable.

Have you checked the distributor... could be a crack in it allowing damp to get in

I've ordered a new dist. cap. Seal. I've noticed oil leaking from the dist. O ring is seeping slightly into the dist. cap. I cleaned it out really well, then put it back in, but made no difference...
Does anyone have a picture of where the map sensor is located?

Ok so yesterday I replaced the PCV valve, and the distributor rotor, then blew out the port for the MAP sensor. Still no change. I did happen to notice inside the distributor that one of the black sensors inside the distributor was all covered in a yellow type of corrosion. Kind of like the stuff you get on battery terminals. I'm going to pull the IACV off today and clean it out with some brake clean to see if that makes any difference as well. I'm also wondering now if I should look back at the fuel system. I did replace the fuel filter only 2 months ago, but these symptoms seemed to start after hitting the gas really hard and reving up around 5000rpm (not redline) to avoid a collision. Would it be possible that the fuel pump may have dislodged some junk in the tank and clogged the filter?

Another question I have, is when I'm doing the timing, it says to jump the blue connector under the dash on the passenger side. When I jump this connector, will it change how the engine runs at idle? Because I notice absolutely no difference in timing whether the connector is jumped or not...

The dust you described on the sensor inside the distributor indicates the distributor bearing has failed, sensors are in the process of being taken out, and the housing needs to be replaced. Go with a genuine Honda housing and use your current ICM and coil. This is the cause of your problem.

Even though the dust was primarily located on the sensor? I'll try replacing that tonight.

Yes. It's only a matter of time before everything inside the distributor will be coated with the dust. It makes a mess.

So when looking for a new distributor in the wrecker, when I turn the keyed shaft that goes to the cam, should it turn smoothly?

Yes.

Wow, I just got quoted $450 from Honda for a new housing!! Yikes!! Looks like I will be going around to the local auto-recyclers to find a new one!

$450 has to include ICM and coil. Just the housing is much less ($150).

Here's a picture of the corrosion I was telling you about. Its definitely not metal dust from the bearings
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/lazmcswaz/DSC01185.jpg

I just got a reply email from Honda. I had asked them if the $470 was for just the housing, no coil, no icm, no rotor, no cap... and they said yes... JUST for the housing! Yikes! Had a 2.5hr meeting last minute lastnight and couldn't get to the auto recycler, so hopefully tonight!

That price blows me away! I don't believe it's corossion, but material from deep inside the distributor. The bearing goes and then as the inner guts start to get destroyed and the dust coats everything. That's what happened to mine.

Hmmm so now I had to turn around half way to work because the car could barely idle. It would cough every couple seconds doing 30mph. Pedal to the floor I could just barely reach 45mph. I was about to pick up a used distributor from the auto recyclers, but they wanted $150 for it!! Yikes...

Have you checked the engine's compression?

Just finished checking the engines compression, 175PSI across the board... manual says minimum 135 and correct psi is 185psi, so 175 is good I would say?

Excellent numbers. Resolution awaits the new distributor housing.

Yes, I found a couple at a couple auto-recyclers, and going to try that. I also pulled the valve cover off and the oil was BLACK... it seems that I have neglected to do an oil change lately OOPS! I also noticed that I've got a valve tick that almost matches the sputtering of the engine at idle. So I'm going to do a double engine oil flush, starting with 1L of automatic tranny fluid, run for 15 minutes then drain and refill with clean oil and an engine flush additive, run for 15 minutes, then drain and refill with clean engine oil.

I wouldn't add ATF--it's not safe. Instead, start using high mileage oil, which will safely start to clean the engine and seals. Alternatively, use Auto-RX, which knowledgeable individuals at BOBISTHEOILGUY.com love. I only use full-synthetic engine oil, which keeps the engine super clean.

OK so I changed the oil and replaced the distributor, but now I'm getting code 4 and 16 which is crank position sensor and fuel injector... grrr... still running rough.

Replacing the distributor (with a good one) will take care of Code 4. It looks like your replacement distributor is no good. One of the distributor's internal sensors is the CKP (Crankshaft Position Sensor). On this site, we have had many problems with even new aftermarket distributors for Hondas.

Yeah, I guess I'll be looking at getting a new distributor then!

So I ordered a new distributor off Rock Auto. Going to be putting it in tomorrow. Crazy thing is, I ordered it this morning at 7am, and by 330pm just before I left work I checked the tracking and it was already up here in BC. Must have caught the last flight out of Texas!

Great. Now the drama should be coming to a climax--I bet it fires right up.

Hahah yeah so do I!
I'm really grateful for all the help. You really know your Hondas!

Well it didn't fix it. Still running like poo...

Since I didn't hear back from you, after the new distributor arrived, I figured it must not have solved the problem.

Yeah sorry, I didn't get the new distributor in until today...
I took the catalytic off and looked inside to see if maybe it had melted and plugged the exhaust, but no go. I also replaced the fuel filter, still no change. Checked the timing again and it was still bang on...

I'm going to try a fuel pressure gauge on the output of the fuel filter and check to see if the pressure is correct.

Well I checked the fuel pressure and that's good. Checked the valve clearances, and those are good. I checked the timing once again, and that was spot on...

I'm at a total loss. I've go outside to work on it every day, trying something different, but it just doesn't change anything. What bugs me is that the computer isn't giving me ANY codes for what's wrong...
Could a sticky valve cause this? If so, how does a car run with a sticky valve?

Are you away txgreasemonkey?

Your situation sounds like a very difficult one. Without being there and, based on everything you have already done, I don't have any great ideas on what to check next.

Well I eventually broke down and paid someone to come take a look at the car. As it turns out, I had 2 cracked spark plugs... It was only running on 2 cylinders. Replaced the spark plugs... ran like a charm!

After all that you had done, I knew it had to be something unusual. Glad to hear it's running well.