I stumbled upon a websith that really has me wondering if bush is the Antichrist. Please go to www.bushisantichrist.com and read the proof that he is indeed the antichrist or at least fits the 666 part of it. I know that in the last year all of the great scholars have come forth to say that the mark or number of the beast is really 669. I am now thinking this is more disinformation since G.W. Bush fits the 666 thing. :confused:

If you mean the AC mentioned in Revelation,

1. the first problem is that it is not a "common Christian belief" that this AC is a single person. It is common among many Protestant churches, but not of Catholic or Orthodox.

2. If it is a person, then we are fairly sure of one thing: Christians will not identify him prior to his coming to world power.

Bottom line: Scripture does not give us a formula whereby we can "test" anyone. Scores of people have been shown that some formula shows that they are "666".

Ah yes, spoken like a true Catholic! I say that because we have all been taught everything we know and perceive so that all of our collected information will be our basis for our reasoning as to how we perceive the world and what is happening in it at this very moment. Hummm, I just hope they told me the truth! Catholics, Mormons and so on all have a different take on this subject. Then there is the element that does not even suspect that a great war is in progress in this world and that the negative side, or evil side or what ever one wishes to call it, for the sake of argument, just may wrestle the power away from the other and reign for a time. Since all of the religons don't see eye to eye on this trivial subject, then I guess there really is nothing to worry about so I'll be getting back to my video games now. Ta-Ta!

G W Bush is more like Hilter, Blindly having the Congress and House pass more and more bills to take your rights away from the Constitution. Dictator Bush claims all for the prevention of Terrorist. Well, the New Pearl Harbor on 9/11 got what Bush wanted, more rules against the every day person. Bush is the biggest terrorist we have. In my opinion.

Mr. Yet... quite observant. Papa Bush and the idiot son are members of the illuminati. The folks like Rockefeller, Globalists that want to get rid of millions of us... they call us unnessasary eaters. They would love the world to be populated by just their servants and workers, ie: a few farm labors, builders and such. Then they could galavant around a totally pristine world void of the rest of us and do as they please. That way, they can selectivly breed and propagate their offspring to rule this part of the universe. Some of them, and this is no joke, call themselves the Masters of the Universe! Now just how much ego can fit in one tiny head I will ask you. The funny thing is, they will never succeed and we, the people will end up having a huge bar-b-que and eating their young! They work in the shadows because they are cowards and the police are their private army. Still, good always overcomes evil and they are going to fail. Deep down inside, they know it, it's just that ego thing they can't seem to control! :cool:

This is a great thread... Magprob. I completely agree with you and Mr.Yet.
Dictator? Id have to agree. The guy is off his rocker! Only a couple more years.. if we make it that long. And I don't necessarily mean that as a joke.. :(

I don't think he's the antichrist in the religious sense of the word, but I do agree that he's a despot and a dictator, and that he's done a lot of harm. His foreign policies stink. All he's succeeded in doing is making the people who live in the rest of the world (outside of the US) hate Americans more. I have never met anyone here in Canada who likes him or agrees with his government. Even the people I know here who vote conservatively don't like him. In fact just the other day I saw some T-shirts for sale downtown, featuring a picture of George Bush and the words "American Psycho" written underneath.

I don't see Dubya as an antichrist. Frankly, I don't think he has the intelligence. I think he's mostly a spolied brat who has always gotten his way so he thinks he can do anything he wants.

You know the only problem with all of this, is that he reallly can't do or coninue to do any of this without the congress allowing him or passing the laws to allow him, or giving him the funding to do it.

And guess who votes all these people into power, the people, so in general he is doing what a lot of the people want him to do.
( except for the immigration issues which are not passing congress at this time)

But the American people were all behind him in the war, ( until it did not get over in 12 months) but then they cry foul if the try to actually win it,

But I bet the next election will not show much difference, the same senators and congress will get re-elected. Bush of course can't run again but niether side has a good showing for the next President.

You know the only problem with all of this, is that he reallly can't do or coninue to do any of this without the congress allowing him or passing the laws to allow him, or giving him the funding to do it.

Ahh, but that's not exactly true. Many of the things Bush has done has been by Executive Order. The prime example is the wiretaps. Another example is the recent revelations about the leaks to Libby. Dubya wanted the info leaked so he declassified the documents.

I don't see Dubya as an antichrist. Frankly, I don't think he has the intelligence. I think he's mostly a spolied brat who has always gotten his way so he thinks he can do anything he wants.

LOL!! I agree, he is not intelligent enough! I've always thought that.

Bush is not the antichrist
I personnaly fill that he was a breath of fresh air
All these people crying foul because the war has taken to long to bad so sad
I have two brothers in iraq right now
And all they say is they now they are doing what needs to be done
He has done a good job over the years

Just think if clinton was president when this happened he would have run back to canada

Then we would have had to deal with gore who I fill is a coward

My filling about antichrist stuff is bullsh-- he is always talking to different heads of chuches
He has done a good job

my filling about antichrist stuff is bullsh-- he is always talking to diffrent heads of chuches
he has done a good jobSadly his front is that of a religious god-fearing man but his real god is money - no president has pandered to corporations more in any term than that man; Bush and Cheney are all about padding the pocketbook.

Wrong you can look up his taxes for the last four years and see exactly how much he has made not much compared to clinton and gore

So don't tell me about padding his wallet

Sorry, Anyone who thinks that Bush has done a "good job", is just turning a blind eye to the facts. We should NEVER have been in Iraq in the first place. The cost both in American lives and monetary cost are causing huge problems. Dubya's disregard for civil rights, his frequent bending of the truth, if not outright lies and the many mistakes made by his administration will have him go down in history as one of the worst presidents ever.

Just because Bush's visible income may be lower, its still very clear that his sympathy and focus is lining the pockets of corporate America.

A breath of fresh air?? Just the opposite, the stink coming out of D.C. is permeating the country.

Another point I would bring up is the election. Does anyone out there really think that Dubya won that election fair and square? I personally think that Papa Bush and the power elite put Dubya in by hook and crook. Now the puppet does exactly what the people pulling the strings want him to do. We are going after Iran next. 200 billion a year in oil revenues? Does that sound right? Now that's what I call "WILDCATTIN"! :eek:

Another point I would bring up is the election. Does anyone out there really think that Dubya won that election fair and square? I personally think that Papa Bush and the power elite put Dubya in by hook and crook. Now the puppet does exactly what the people pulling the strings want him to do. We are going after Iran next. 200 billion a year in oil revenues? Does that sound right? Now that's what I call "WILDCATTIN"! :eek:

Exactly, Dubya is a puppet. Its clear to me that he doesn't have the intelligence to run this country. There are forces behind him that are forming the policies. I think that's why he has been caught with so many contradictions. If he doesn't have someone feeding him lines, he screws up.

Exactly! He cannot articulate a complete sentence on his own without reading the teleprompter! Boy, the whole world has lost respect for America because of the Bush's and the election scam. They have shown the world what is really possible in a democracy and I don't think the world really wants to emulate it anymore. So if you don't agree with us we will just kill you! We have to stop... we can't fight everyone! Not at the same time anyway. Russia and China are in the background holding hands. Just because we are China's biggest customer, will that stop them when we are spread too thin?

What makes you think 9/11 wouldn't have happened with clinton in office

And no daddy didn't help put bush in office.

You say those who think bush is doing a good job has turned a blind eye

What about old clinton and monica
Your probable one of the people who thought that was OK
He lied about that at the beginning of the whole thing

You probable want his old lady as are next president
If that happens the world is in for a lot more trouble then you think

My opinion about the war in iraq. It needed to happen
You are probably one of those people who think the holocaust never happened
Sorry but it did

I am proud of the way bush has run the country

Demon

How many people turn to the usa when they need help

So how can you say they have lost respect for us

what makes you think 9/11 wouldn't have happened with clinton in office

Maybe the fact that it DIDN'T happen while Clinton was in office gives us a clue. But frankly, I don't think it would have mattered who was president.


and no daddy didn't help put bush in office.

you say those who think bush is doing a good job has turned a blind eye

what about old clinton and monica
your probable one of the people who thought that was ok
he lied about that at the beginning of the whole thing

If you want to believe that daddy didn't help get Dubya elected I doubt if anything I say will change your mind.

What about Clinton and Monica? Clinton's actions with Lewinsky were shameful, but they were personal actions that had nothing to do with the presidency. Nor do they have anything to do with the quality of the job Dubya is doing.


you probable want his old lady as are next president
if that happens the world is in for alot more trouble then you think

I think Hilary would make a better president than Dubya, but that's not saying much.


my opinion about the war in iraq. It needed to happen
you are probably one of those people who think the holocaust never happened
sorry but it did

First I'm jewish. Second, why did the war in Iraq need to happen? So we could destroy their WMDs? Well there were none. So we could depose an evil dictator? We've supported evil dictators before. What right do we have to invade a sovereign nation just because we don't like its leader?


how many people turn to the usa when they need help
so how can you say they have lost respect for us

What does respect have to do with asking for help? How many countries ask for our aid then laugh at us behind our backs for giving it to them?


i am proud of the way bush has run the country

demon

If you really feel that way, there seems little point in discussing this with your further. I prefer to debate people who think reasonably and rationally.

so how can you say they have lost respect for usI think you need to travel outside of North America to feel that. Have you been to Europe in the last couple of years?

Demon, It's very probable that you will fall for anything they tell you. It's very probable you put words in people's mouth's because you don't have much of an argument. The thing that is the most probable is that at best, you are very ill informed. But don't worry, at the rate we are going, Armagedden is very close and after it goes down, you can tell every one it did'nt happen.

Magprob

Tell me what makes you think Armageddon is very close
Where do you get this information

Scottgem

Why do you think we didn't need to do it
My philosophy about it is hit them before they hit us.

If we would have wiped them out with the first bush or even when clinton went in there in 98
See don't forget clinton tried it to

If we would have listened to the founding fathers of this country we wouldn't be having this conversation

why do you think we didn't need to do it
My philosophy about it is hit them before they hit us.

if we would of wiped them out with the first bush or even when clinton went in there in 98
see don't forget clinton tried it to

if we would of listened to the founding fathers of this country we wouldn't be having this conversation

I already answered why we didn't need to do it. The Iraq war is the first time in the history of the US where we struck the first blow. Granted Sometimes we provoked the first blow, but this was the first time we struck it.

I believe in peace not war. I do not believe in pre-emptive first strikes. Nor did our founding fathers. I supported the action in Afghanistan because that was in retaliation. The invasion of Iraq was not. The reasons Bush gave us about it have all been shown to be false.

I actually agree with you that we should have gone all the way in Desert Storm. We had some justification then. But Bush had to preserve what was a very fragile alliance. If he had gone into Baghdad, that alliance would have broken apart.

Try learning some facts about what is going on. So far all you have displayed is ignorance.

"Demonspeeding_2005 disagrees: i have been to germany, canada, and england within the last year."

Wow, I wasn't aware EMTs made that much (considering that you would be travelling from clear across the USA to boot!) and allowed such an amount of vacation time. Bravo!

What brought you to all those place within a year?

One of my brothers is stationed in germany
Another of my brothers in england
Canada just because I got bored

Emt is not my only job
I am also in secutity

Demonspeed, you ask why I think we are headed for Armageddon. Well, you can call it what you like but we are going into Iran next and then probably Syria next and with all of the nukes that are unaccounted for from the old USSR, (which, by the way, may be in the background drawing us in or at least suppling arms to these countries), there is going to be some nukes shot off before this is over. This is a serious situation that the whole world is involved in and I just don't happen think Bush is the man for the job dude! Kennedy handled Cuba and Russia quite well in his day but this is much, much, bigger and all we have is G.W.(Dubya) Bush. Oh man I am scared and I fear for my grand kids future. If you want to play cowboy with Dubya just remember one thing, when those wagons are in a circle, Dubya will be under ground... will you?

Have any of you served in the military

My feelings about it are kill them all let good sort them out

Demonspeeding 2005,

More power to you . You are an E.M.T? God bless you! I am an R.N. with 20+ yrs. Experience with trauma patients.
And also security? Oh you are so right on . How absolutely nice of you to be so helpful to our nation and to people in need. I think it's totally biased of someone to even suggest a stupid thing like the leader of our country- being, well I won't even dignify it by repeating it.

I find it amazing how these people complaing about Bush in every way... yet they do it with such disrespect! Wow, too bad if they can't overlook some of your words AND if they can't see the positive things Bush has done for our country. Oh, even though I liked Clinton- he actually backed down from retalliation after the USS Cole was hit because it was towards the end of his 2nd term.

I've survived my own 9/11 TWICE. So I hope G.W. gets Bin-Laden after all... before he leaves office! I cried for every single person that had their story put on A&E and Discovery channel & court TV, etc...

Now, I think Red China has a right to have their own nuclear weapons. This way we don't stand out as The Big Cheese by having a monopoly as such.

Demonspeeding 2005,

More power to you . You are an E.M.T? God bless you! I am an R.N. with 20+ yrs. experience with trauma patients.
And also security? Oh you are so right on . How absolutely nice of you to be so helpful to our nation and to people in need. I think it's totally biased of someone to even suggest a stupid thing like the leader of our country- being, well I won't even dignify it by repeating it.

I find it amazing how these people complaing about Bush in every way....yet they do it with such disrespect! Wow, too bad if they can't overlook some of your words AND if they can't see the positive things Bush has done for our country. Oh, even though I liked Clinton- he actually backed down from retalliation after the USS Cole was hit because it was towards the end of his 2nd term.

I've survived my own 9/11 TWICE. So I hope G.W. gets Bin-Laden after all....before he leaves office! I cried for every single person that had their story put on A&E and Discovery channel & court tv, etc......

Now, I think Red China has a right to have their own nuclear weapons. This way we don't stand out as The Big Cheese by having a monopoly as such.

Respect has to be earned. I agree that a newly elected president deserves his country's respect out of the gate. But to keep that respect it has to be earned. Dubya has not earned it! I'm not going to repeat the reasons, it would take too long.

I would like to know what positive things Dubya has done for this country. Please name some. About the only thing I can name is the strong stance he took after 9/11 in Afghanistan. I can think of little else. Yet I can name (as I have) a large number of things he has screwed up.

I too hope Bush gets Bin Laden, but he's had more than 4 years to do it and hasn't come close. By the way, I survived THE 9/11. I was on the 50th fl of the south tower when the first plane hit. I was still in the building, in a 16th fl stairwell, when the second plane hit.

As to Red China having nuclear weapons, where have you been? Red China has been a nuclear power for years! I don't believe ANYONE should have nuclear weapons. Because this world will not survive a nuclear war.

You need to wake up to the reality of today's world.

"I too hope Bush gets Bin Laden, but he's had more than 4 years to do it and hasn't come close. By the way, I survived THE 9/11. I was on the 50th fl of the south tower when the first plane hit. I was still in the building, in a 16th fl stairwell, when the second plane hit."

Very interesting information above from the previous answer. That is amazing.
I am truly glad you were not one of the casualties of that cruel disaster. You are truly Blessed, in every sense of the word.

Thanks Fred. I have told the story on occasion, but its not something I like to speak of. I mentioned it in this case, because I feel it gives a weight of experience and background to my opinions here.

I don't consider myself "blessed". The blessing would have been if it hadn't happened at all. I can't believe that some entity chose me to live and others to die. I can't believe that an entity that could pick would have allowed the tragedy to happen in the first place.

I am not a pacifist, but neither am I a hawk. I'm a realist first and foremost. The reality to me is that war should always be a last resort. That war should be engaged in as a defense against attack.

I don't want to get Underdog and his friend Sweet Poly Purebred going again but I just wanted to comment to ScottGem that I really am glad you came out unscathed and with a strong appreciation for the art of diplomacy when it comes to anilation of an entire planet. I have, in previous posts, sensed a certain element in your posts that only comes with having "been to the gates of hell and back and now i'm not trifling" attitude. You truly understand what is at stake. I personally have no idea what it is like to have your world crashing down around your feet but I have a suspicion it isn't good. I don't want that for anyone and all I am saying is that things are heading that way really fast. When Bush went into Iraq it was not for the reason he gave us. That leads me to believe we are being lied to. With the stakes as they are, this isn't the time to be in the dark.
Also ScottGem, what do you make of all of the conspricy theroies about the Twin Towers? Why are people, lots of people saying it did'nt happen the way they told us it did?

OK
I am done with this post for now

Thanks for the nice comments Mag. I caught the history bug when I was about 8 and went to Gettysburg on vacation. I wound up getting my BA in Poli Sci (and now I'm a computer geek, go figure). So, some of my opinions go back before my WTC experience.

I'm not sure which conspiracy theories you refer to. People like a conspiracy. So such rumors will always grow around an event like that. I read, just the other day, that a great deal of what they know about the terrorists comes from luggage that didn't make it onto one of the WTC planes. Apparently Atta, the attack leader, and one other boarded a commuter plane to Boston in Portland Me. They got there only 15 minutes before the flight and checked their luggage. Because of the rush, the luggage never made it onto the flight from Logan. The FBI took possession of the 3 bags and found a lot of the info that told them who the hijackers were, what their plans were etc.

Dubya may or may not be the antichrist but he's close enough for me!:cool: :mad:

Basically I agree with everything scottgem has to say! I am glad that you can live to tell about a terrible tragedy such as "911" SO many people can't. You are right, it should have never happened. As for why we are in Iraq, I think people have their facts mixed up about why we are there. It is not to kill Bin Laden. He is somewhere getting high in a mountain top because Bush LET HIM get away. I don't think that 911 and the reason we are currently in Iraq have ANYTHING to do with one another. Hillbilly Bush and Topshooter Chaney are just doing what they were raised to do... Be ignorant men hiding behind guns, that they think make them look tough.

Is there any proof that saddam wasn't supporting osama

THe fact is, The only war that has been necessary in the last 100 years was WORLD WAR II... and That's IT! It is sad that our troops have to be put in the position of fighting for such a worthless cause. God Bless them, but it still sucks.

Is there any proof that saddam wasn't supporting osamaLogistically you don't try to prove that something did not happen. For instance: Is there any proof that George Bush is not a devil worshipper? See? It doesn't work that way. The Saddam/Osama link was presented to us by the top echelon of the US military, unfortunately they seem to be wrong. Saddam is indeed a tyrant but his involvement in Osama's nefarious plans has yet to be conclusely proven. If you can offer some concrete proof it would be interesting to see.

Thank you NEEDKARMA... you hit the nail right on the head! Where's the proof. THe facts are there is NONE! That was just a smokescreen for the real reason we are fighting this war. GREED. OIL. MORE GREED. And now our gas prices are going up again to an all new record high. Yea, Bush is great... hah!

So let me ask.
What would you have done.
They have proof he was on his way to becoming the next hitler.

So let me ask.
What would you have done.
They have proof he was on his way to becoming the next hitler.I would have taken a step back and wondered: "what do they hate us so much that they would want to take such drastic measures to hurt us? what policies of ours incite so much hatred?"

BTW Hitler had charisma and a whole nation following him, Osama did not nor does he have a huge army and the proper technology to overun the world.

Any time a U.S. president goes into war with our troops for his own reasons we become a Dictatorship and not a Democracy. We the people should have the last say as to whose *** we want to kick. Not a group of billionaire globalist with a hidden agenda. I am sorry my fellow Americans but our country and our freedom is slipping away from us... and fast. I am to the point I do not trust anyone! They are all out for their own gain by promoting their own agenda. That is what an elected position has become.:mad:

Aw shucks, stopped by the spread rule:

I AGREE!! Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, Iraq: Should've never gone there.

Is there any proof that saddam wasn't supporting osama
The question is not whether there is proof that he wasn't but whether there is proof that he was. And no proof has been uncovered to support that he was. That was just another piece of information put forward by the Bush Administration to justify this war.


So let me ask.
What would you have done.
They have proof he was on his way to becoming the next hitler.

What proof? There was the Iraq-Iran border war that ended in a draw. Then Hussein got his nose blooded in an ill considered and ill fated incursion into Kuwait. Since he got creamed by the elder Bush in a war justified by Iraq's aggression, Hussein has done nothing but saber rattling. Everything else he did (and there were atrocities. That's why he's being tried for war crimes) was done within his own borders. If he was such a tyrant, then why didn't the oppressed subjects rise up against him. If they had done so during Desert Storm, the elder Bush might have had the backing to finish the job.

What would I have done? I would have continued exactly what we were doing. Using boycotts and economic sanctions to keep him confined to his own borders. I would have heightened our prepardedness so that we could strike back decisively and swiftly if he attacked.

I firmly believe that Hussein was playing with us. He made us believe that he had more weaponry then he did. He was thumbing his nose at us and enjoying his ability to jerk America's chain. His big mistake was underestimating Dubya's pride and stupidity. I don't think he ever believed that Dubya would be stupid enough to invade.

If you look at the facts, these conclusions become almost inescapable.

Edit:
What does the mass graves have to do with anything? As I said, that's why he is being tried. There was no question about his attacks against the Kurds. But that was internal. How do you think America would have reacted if another country interferred with us because of what we did to Native Americans?

Here is what I think we need. A place to post and communicate with people from Iran, Iraq and everywhere. The software should translate to any lanuage you want to communicate in. All the people of the world are my brothers and sisters and I send them a mental message of love every day. I want to tell them that I do not want to fight with them. I want their Children and Grand children to live peaceful, abundant lifes along with mine. When we the people begin to communicate instead of just hearing and reacting the rhetoric of these greedy, self serving fools that are controlling things now, I bet you things will start to change. Tell me true, do any of you really want to kill anyone because of oil or any other material thing. GOD has always provided me with everything I have ever needed, not this boondoggle we call government. Is there any software that has been developed to provide such a forum? Is there such a forum? :confused:

Here is what I think we need. A place to post and communicate with people from Iran, Iraq and everywhere.

Actually the Internet has provided such a venue. The Internet had a direct impact on the collapse of the Soviet Union. The ability of people within the Soviet Union to see what was really going on in Western countries and to communicate with Western peoples showed them that their leaders had lied to them.

Unfortunately, the communications facilities in MidEast countries are not as good as in other areas. And they are more tightly controlled by government.

They have proof he was on his way to becoming the next hitler.

If that's true, then the troops should have invaded Rwanda, where one of the worst genocides since the Holocaust recently took place. But the world turned a blind eye to the devastation there. Why? Because Rwanda is not a rich country, no oil or any other exploitable resources.

Edit: Yes you're right magprob, they are African, and the African continent is being almost completely ignored right now.

OK... then this is what we need... underground internet cafes! :} Yes, I understand, why, Google has designed the software to allow the tyrants running China to keep a tight grip on the free speech on the internet. Anything for a buck! Guess I'll just have to go back to my original plan. Rent an airplane and start dropping flyers! How many people live in that region anyway? Hope this old HP printer is up to it.
I am being bombarded with the mess Bush has us in. I just received this:

This was originally sent by a retired Coca Cola
executive It's worth a try.

Join the resistance!! I hear we are going to hit
close to $4.00 a gallon by next summer and it might
go higher! Want gasoline prices to come down? We
need to take some intelligent, united action.

This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy gas on a certain
day" campaign! It was more of an inconvenience
to us than it was a problem for them.

Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have
conditioned us to think that the cost of a gallon of gas is
CHEAP at $1.75, we need to take aggressive action to
teach them that BUYERS control the marketplace.. not
sellers.

Since we all rely on our cars, we can't just stop
buying gas. But we CAN have an impact on gas prices if
we all act together to force a price war

For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase
ANY gasoline from the two biggest companies
(which now are one), EXXON and MOBIL. If they are
not selling gas, they will be forced to reduce prices.

It's well worth the effort because this has potential to work.
Send Exxon-Mobil a message. Their profits for last year were
off the map - only because we bought their gas. Therefore,
we are just as much to blame if we continue to increase
their profit margins. If we don't buy their gas, they will
lower prices. This is the American spirit that made this country
so great. Let's work together and show these fat cats that
"we, the people" are the heart and soul of this country.

To have an impact, we need to reach literally millions
of Exxon and Mobil gas buyers. It's really simple to do! Now,
don't wimp out at this point...

I'm sending this to 30 people.
If each of us send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and
those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 =
3,000)... and so on, by the time the message reaches
the sixth group of people, we will have reached over
THREE MILLION consumers.

If those three million get excited and pass this on to
ten friends each, then 30 million people will have
been contacted! If it goes one level further, you
guessed it... THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!

Let's do it!!
Things are getting out of hand folks!

How many of the worlds tyrants have started as a small potato?
Then gotten bigger?

How many of the worlds tyrants have started out as a small potato?
Then gotten bigger?Yes, that's it - let's murder them early if they show signs of being bad. Why hasn't the US taken out Kim Jong-Il?

I am talking about the history of the world.
Maybe we got this one before he got to big.

As I said earlier, we need to focus on our country... and the wars that are going on within this nation... like drugs and poverty. Katrina was a perfect example of how we have failed to do this. It is very sad that there are so many countries out there that have horrible poverty levels and terrible things happening to them. But Bush doesn't REALLY care about that. He only cares about what he can REAP from other countries, and make it look like he is the BIG hero of the day. HAH!

Now Bush says that the oil companies "may" be price gouging. If the price of gas drops soon, due to Bush looking into it, will he be our hero once again?

"MAY"?? On New Years Eve, one gas station near me ( pass it going to and from the highway) started the day with a price of $2.59. On my way home it had risen to $2.65. On the way home from our New Years festivities it was up to $2.75!

Does anyone believe they got a delivery between 8PM (when I left for the party) and 1AM (when I returned) on New Years Eve?

Gas stations and gas companies should be made to charge what they PAY for gas. Not what their supplier tells them the next delivery will cost. When they get the delivery, they can raise the price even though their may still be cheaper gas in the tank. That's reasonable. But to raise prices based on the cost of their NEXT delivery??

And the stations are not totally at fault. Their suppliers are raising the prices based on anticpated increases, not real ones. When the price goes up on the commodities market, prices are raised and passed down the line. Even though they are selling stockpiles that were made from lower priced crude. That's why the oil companies posted huge windfall profits after Katrina.

So one might think they would temper their price raises to compensate. But obviously not. And why not? Because they they have a friend in the White House who won't do anything about it.

Here in Northern IL it is supposed to go up to $3.00 by memorial day and not go down from $3.00 all summer long, or at least that is what they are predicting. That is ridiculous! And now since the news reported this, you better believe those gas station owners are thinking they can raise them now, since everyone is expecting it, not because they need to.

Well yes! I say to ScottGem first and foremost! Bush is spoiled. But in a good way. Did you not think that that can happen to Christian men too? Or are you just a tad bit jealous..


~ I didn't vote at all this time around. I moved and the rush for me to register was a pain. I wasn't so happy with the war, & the Democrats couldn't even take advantage of the "deficit thing" Instead they offered that clown Kerry. But now I'm glad God was in control and put Bush in. My husband had no problem voting, and for Bush. Forget about it!

Now in regards to your post- Cgirl - When you say "we" should concentrate on this country's needs more. Don't you mean the Politicians and Bush?
Last I checked... I wasn't getting paid for rebuilding New Orleans. In fact, the Army Corp of Engineers are trying to do a better job building up the levies this time. Bush has given plenty of tax cuts to those affected by Katrina.
Private citizens donated mucho dinero to the casualty funds.
The rest is up to God and a few thousand truckloads of good people.

Have a lovely day!

Well yes! I say to ScottGem first and foremost! Bush is spoiled. But in a good way. Did you not think that that can happen to Christian men too? Or are you just a tad bit jealous............?


Huh? I haven't a clue what you refer to. Not even sure how someone can be spoiled "in a good way". The word spolied means to turn rotten. And what would I be jealous of?

Try dealing with the real points I made.

I am talking about the history of the world.
Maybe we got this one before he got to big.

The fact is that Hussein DID get too big. That was when he invaded Kuwait. What happened then was the proper reaction. He was condemned for his aggression by the just about every nation. They banded together to throw him out of Kuwait. He was contained at that time. There was no proof he was going to try such an act of aggression again.

AMEN ScottGem!

And as for Katrina, yea, now Bush has his tail between his legs and is fixing things now, but TO LITTLE TOO LATE. What about all of the poverty that was ignored before Katrina happened? What about all of the people that were forgotten when Katrina struck? THe Levie's would have held up better if they had been updated to begin with, and not after the fact. No, this is not all Bush's fault, but once again, it just goes to show you that he should worry about what is happening here in the US, and not what is good for his pocketbook. Period.

Try reading your former posts in this section! And YOU try getting your own points!!

Try reading your former posts in this section! And YOU try getting your own points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't have to read my former posts. I know what I said. Try explaining yourself instead of posting cryptic remarks. I refer back to specific statements when necessary. If you show me what you are referring to, I will respond. But I haven't a clue.

I did go back reread my previous answer to you. I still haven't a clue what you refer to. As for my not showing respect. As I said respect has to be earned. Dubya has not show himself worthy of my respect.

As for my girlfriend, I've been happily married for 32 years.

Our dear Heavenly Father, please plant the seeds of truth into the minds of the thinking impared. Amen

Mag, it seems like you have done your research already. So whay ask what you have already come to terms with? To see if others see and believe? it is still hard for folks to come to terms with the idea of illuminati, Icke theory and such. Im glad you brought this up but even if Bush isnt the "Antichrist" he sure is an evil, ignorant, self serving person that most can agree is not a good president but an ignorant one. And there will be those who adore him because they truly believe in his lies and have some form of hope.
Woe to those who live within the illusion and never question reality. For it is they who will breathe the smoke while their leaders point the mirrors.

Hypatia

What I don't understand is, I hear some Americans talking about respecting the president, respecting the government, etc. But how is criticizing the president's actions disrespect? Isn't it just a right as part of freedom of speech? If you threw a pie in the president's face as he was greeting people THAT would be disrespect (actually that happened to one of our prime ministers a few years back!). But when disagreeing with government policies is labeled "disrespect", that scares me. Do you want to live in a country where people are not allowed to disagree with the president??

What I don't understand is, I hear some Americans talking about respecting the president, respecting the government, etc. But how is criticizing the president's actions disrespect?

Perfect Chava!! Got stymied by the spread feature. But your whole comment here was absolutely perfect.

Originally Posted by orange
What I don't understand is, I hear some Americans talking about respecting the president, respecting the government, etc. But how is criticizing the president's actions disrespect?


I agree, Orange. What once again it goes back to Freedom of Speech, not criticism of the president.

Cgirl, I realize Bush hasn't made the best decisions, but then again, what president has in the last 20 years? New Orleans? It is funny how no one has blamed the Mayor and the Governor who in my opinion did a horrible job in the whole evacuation.

Although everyone does make valid points. I am not sure who should be believed and who I shouldn't. You have the liberal media and a conservative media. Everyone will tell their side and what they think is right. This is almost as bad a thread on religion. I don't think anyone can make an assessment on whether the right decisions are being made unless you are 1) in the government 2) real close to people who work in government. It is the same as where you work. The higher ups are making decisions that the lower end people are shaking their heads as to why things are being done this way. I am not saying this is all right, I am just saying that this is the way of politics. I think because it is Bush people are aware of the decisions that are being made.
magprob -- you mentioned the iluminata. Don't they control all the nations leaders anyway? I am not quite sure Bush is totally conforming to their demands. I know Bush Sr. didn't.

It was pretty funny how Osama was endorcing Kerry. Why? I think because Osama thought he could control Kerry better than Bush.

We need to get independent on oil. I heard awhile back the Senator from Alaska did a favor for 2 other Senators and set aside 19 million acres for wild life so later they could set aside 1 million for oil. Now those Sneators aren't in office anymore and we cannot get our oil drilled there. I remember Bush trying to get that pushed through but the other Senators wouldn't allow it.

Anyway, that is the end of my rant. I probably will only read the rest of the posts.

2. If it is a person, then we are fairly sure of one thing: Christians will not identify him prior to his coming to world power.

Im jumping in really late and haven't read through the whole thread as of yet... but I wanted to comment on this.

The thing about this is that, in this day and age, do you really think that ANYONE could come CLOSE to world power, without everyone saying "ANTICHRIST, ANTICHRIST!!" I mean, I know that what the Bible tells us but how could someone rise so high without everyone seeing it coming, without ANYONE screaming "ANTICHRIST!"?

I must say this about Bush though. I look at him, even just a picture of him, and it gives me the creeps. Something about him just does that. He definitely does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling. There is just something not right about that man. I don't think he is the "anti-christ" but I do think he is out for himself. Does this make him evil? You tell me?

EDIT: Jduke44, he gave me the creeps to, but just on his moral standings

Wow... now that I have read on, this really turned into a steaming political debate... how boring! I like the Anti-Christ discussion much better! Lol

Gosh I better stop posting things about the government, someone might bust me via the "Patriot ACT"... they might think I am a traitor. The fact is, I LOVE my country, wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I love my freedom, I just want those freedoms to remain protected, for me, my children, my grandchildren, etc. I am just afraid that they won't be much longer. But I am trying to think "good thoughts" for my son's sake. I just hope that I can raise him to love his country too, and not hate it because of all of the bad events taking place.

Some very thoguhtful comments, JD. But I do have some counterpoint.

No one is perfect, including presidents. They have all made bad or just unpopular decisions. But Bush's record is one of the worst. There have been so many mistakes and bad decisions.

As to Bin Laden endorsing Kerry, I have an alternative theory. Do you believe that Bin Laden's endorsement would induce any American to vote for him? So maybe Bin Laden endorsed Kerry because he was afraid of him, figuring that his endorsement would be the kiss of death.

While its true that the media is slanted, certain facts have been presented and I'm making my judgments not on what the media has said but on the facts that have been presented.

Well, at least y'all got your sense of humor back!

As A REBORN Christian I'm NOT going to worry about Armeggedon. No one with THIS FAITH concerns themselves with the end because WE will be caught up in the Rapture anyway.

Sometimes I do have to fake it for the sake of the younger ones here & there. So hopefully they don't see my post, BUT, Take a look @ Iran. Sen. John McCain stated last night on a program that Iran is developing their nuclear weapons with the sole interest in destroying Israel! I'd say the leaders (what is it they have, president or whoever) I'd say he or she could be your beast. Whatcha think?

Well, not many folks think that G.W. Bush is the Antichrist. I really don't either. I don't think he is a very good president and I don't think the American people come first with him. I agree with rickj, our superfearlessmoderator, do we really know what the Antichrist is? Anyway, I see this thread going in circles and I need to rest my brain. I'm going back to the home and garden section! Goodnight and Goodluck!:p

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. —


From the: IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

This statement is valid today.

If Bush was doing something which the American people disagreed strongly with, why did they reelect him for a second term?

If Bush was doing something which the American people disagreed strongly with, why did they reelect him for a second term?

That's a very good question. Its got no cut and dried answer. But there are several factors involved.

One reason is the American party system. Many people (on both sides) vote blindly along party lines. Another reason was the lack of a strong opposition candidate. Bush was also still riding the 9/11 tragedy. He gained a lot of favor (for reasons not totally logical) over his handling of the attacks. His first term was not as obviously bad as his second term has been. A lot of the problems and mistakes are first coming out now. Since he gained a clear victory the last time, and since he's a lame duck, he's free to do what his handlers want him to do. So the excesses have now become more obvious. These are just some of the factors.

Hi,
Good answer in the previous answer.
Why get elected a second term? He was riding much higher; with many political "promises" of better things to come, and there wasn't a Democratic candidate who could have beat him.

Scot, you hit the nail on the head! If the war in Iraq had not been going on some of his other policy would have come under closer scrutiny and in my opinion exposed his lack of a domestic policy and his pandering to interest groups with his energy bill. Would his ratings been so high without the war? I doubt it!:cool: :mad:

Scot, you hit the nail on the head! If the war in Iraq had not been going on some of his other policy would have come under closer scrutiny and in my opinion exposed his lack of a domestic policy and his pandering to interest groups with his energy bill. Would his ratings been so high without the war? I doubt it!:cool: :mad:

Which begs the question. Was one of the reasons the war was started, especially when it was, to provide impetus to his re-election?

I have no proof to offer,but I do know he was very aware his father was a one term president and he didn't want to repeat the legacy, also he knew the war would lead us to be in Iraq for years but I have no solid proof to say this was part of an "agenda". But I also have no proof that GWB is not the anti-christ either! I do know that a lot of fat cats are getting very rich because of this war! That's a fact!:cool: :mad:

[QUOTE=ScottGem]That's a very good question. Its got no cut and dried answer. But there are several factors involved.

One reason is the American party system. Many people (on both sides) vote blindly along party lines. Another reason was the lack of a strong opposition candidate. Bush was also still riding the 9/11 tragedy. QUOTE]

Voting blindly along party lines and riding high on 9/11. That's a good explanation. Thanks for the response. About the illogical nature of voters, that's the main reason why Socrates was against democracies both direct and representational. Man primarily reasoning justify his decisions based on emotion.

WE WILL KNOW FOR SURE IN 2008

It was the mysterious, self-proclaimed Internet prophet John Titor, I believe, who warned us in 2001 that "2008 was when we all realized that the America we thought we were living in was gone forever" or something to that effect. Whether there was anything to the whole bizarre Titor saga, he may have been right about 2008. What happens in 2008 in America? Or rather what is scheduled to occur in America in 2008, just like it is scheduled to occur every four years?

Yes, the presidential election. The very centerpiece of our entire democracy.

And who is widely held to have stolen the last two elections via election fraud? Of course, GW Bush.

But it's a little harder to steal an election when you're not legally allowed to be on the ballot, so if GW wants to keep his power in 2008 he'll have to come up with something a little more drastic, some whole new way to hold the American Presidency. He might try to simply have the laws changed so he could legally run for a third term, and in fact he already has his people working on that, but I don't for a moment believe that he views this as his only path to retaining power. There is nothing in the prophecies to suggest that the Antichrist will be at the mercy of public opinion; he is presented there more as possessing absolute power than as as just having remarkable popularity. Bush could easily retain control of the government for a third term through a military coup if another "emergency" occurred and he had an arguable reason to declare martial law. He wouldn't need to convince everyone that he had the right to take such a step, nor even a majority of the population. All he would need would be plausible deniability of any premeditated intent to circumvent the election laws, and any number of national crises would provide that shelter for him.

Would he really dare do something like that? Bush's popularity has already had very little to do with how long he stays in office. He stole his first Presidential election, then orchestrated a national disaster to supplement his powers, and then stole his second election to keep those powers. Why should we think he will suddenly decide to start playing by the rules in 2008?

If he is the Antichrist, stealing a third term will be the single most predictable move he will make in his entire career.

And then we will know.

Peter Novak

"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ [... ]
That day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first,
And the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
Who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship,
So that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.[... ]
And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work.
Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.
And then the lawless one will be revealed."
- 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8

I think if people cared more about today and the immediate future they would be better off!

I also think Bush has a real SH - - job... but somebody's got to do it!

Has Bush ever denied Christ?

"And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work."
:eek: :eek: :eek:

"And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work."
:eek: :eek: :eek:


I understand the lawlessness referred to in this scripture as the slow development of the apostasy during the first century and the man referred to is a composite or a type and not an individual. Of course opinions differ on this and others prefer to understand the man of lawlessness as one person. In any case, assuming that the scripture refers to one person, why choose Bush? That's my question to you.

I refur to Dubya as the figure head or puppet that is doing the bidding of the main body of the secret movement that is going against the law of human rights to reach an end that seems to be known only to them... and a few outsiders. The civil rights and basic protections of Americans and Europeans in free countries, and other countries where those tenicles reach, are being shuffled like a deck of cards in preparation for a "new deal". I am very happy with the U.S. Constitution and I consider it the "LAW." This force or hidden movement does not and they are breaking the law in their quest to gain control of the masses. Thus, lawlessness on a massive scale. Bush (Dubya) could not pull it off on his own as I think we all agree!

Maybe it's his membership with Skull & Bones Society (http://skullandcrossbones.org/articles/skullandbones.htm)?

That was very interesting N.K.. . I have a dumb question though...

Did G.W. graduate from a law school? The article notes him grad. From Yale but being rejected from another law school. So did he just go onto business/politics after Yale? :confused:

Endgame for the Constitution

PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS | May 3 2006

The Bush administration has done more damage to Americans and more harm
To America's reputation than any other administration in history. Yet,
A majority of Republicans still support Bush. This tells much about
Blind party loyalty.

By encouraging the move offshore of American jobs and manufacturing,
Bush has run up tremendous trade deficits that have undermined the
World's confidence in the dollar as the reserve currency. Recently,
Both Chinese and Russian government officials warned of the dollar's
Shaky status. The fall in confidence in the dollar is evidenced by the
Sharp run-up in the price of gold. In January 2001 the price of gold
Was about $240 per ounce. Today the price is $660 per ounce.

The price of gasoline has risen from around $1.30 per gallon to over
$3.00 per gallon. Obviously, Bush's war in the Middle East did not
Ensure the oil supply.

On Bush's watch, three million US manufacturing jobs have disappeared.
Tens of thousands of highly qualified US engineers have lost their
Employment. US job growth has fallen six to seven million jobs behind
Population growth. Recent college graduates are employed as waitresses
And bartenders.

Illegal immigration has continued to explode. While Bush spends $1
Trillion and many lives trying to control borders in the MIddle East,
America's borders remain undefended and over run. Bush advocates
Amnesty for the illegals who have invaded America while Bush invades
Distant countries.

On false pretenses Bush invaded Iraq, a country that comprised no
Threat to America. American high explosives have devastated Iraq and
Its infrastructure and killed at least 100,000 Iraqi civilians, people
Who Bush claims to be bringing freedom and democracy.

All stability has disappeared from Iraq. Iraqis now live in fear of one
Another as well as fear of American troops. On April 28 Iraqi vice
President Adil Abdul-Mahdi said that 100,000 Iraqi families have been
Uprooted by the sectarian violence unleashed by Bush's overthrow of
Saddam Hussein.

Not content with the uncontrollable mayhem he has brought to Iraq, Bush
Hopes to expand the catastrophe by attacking Iran. The US Secretary of
State, sounding like the warmonger she is, says the US may ignore the
United Nations and attack Iran on its own initiative. This would be the
Second time that the Bush administration initiated wars of
Aggression--war crimes under the Nuremberg standard established by the
US.

Bush claims that he is higher authority than both US law and
International law. In the past, US presidents vetoed laws with which
They disagreed. Bush signs the laws and ignores them.

Bush has declared himself to be the sole judge of the limits of his
Powers--a claim that violates Bush's oath of office to uphold the US
Constitution. Bush has set aside the Bill of Rights by detaining people
Indefinitely without charges, by kidnapping and torturing people, and
By spying on Americans without warrants. These are actions that are
Illegal under law as well as unconstitutional. All of these violations
Of law and the Constitution are serious impeachable offenses.

Yet. Congress is supine as the Bush regime exercises dictatorial
Powers. The exercise of these dictatorial powers by the executive is a
Far greater danger to American liberty than are Muslim terrorists.

Bush's apologists claim that only terrorists have anything to fear.
However, unaccountable executive power is inconsistent with free
Societies. America is no exception. Unless Bush is impeached and turned
Over to the war crimes court in the Hague, Americans will never reclaim
Their liberties from an executive branch that has established itself as
The sole judge of the limits of its powers.

As Jacob Hornberger, president of the Future of Freedom Foundation
Wrote last month, "we now live in a nation in which the president has
the omnipotent power to ignore all constitutional restraints on his
power." Bruce Fein, a Justice Department official in the Reagan
Administration said that Bush "is moving us toward an unlimited
executive power."

The Bush regime's practice of excessive secrecy and denial of
Information to Congress allows the regime to avoid judicial review of
Its power claims. Bush ignores Congress and evades the courts.

When President Richard Nixon made excessive claims for presidential
Powers, principled Republicans revolted and helped to bring down Nixon.
Today's Republicans are loyal only to power. They have no principles.
By supporting Bush, Republicans are bringing down

People look at Bush’s invasion of Iraq and see a miserable failure. But a failure to do what? Democratize Iraq? Eliminate Iraq’s WMD arsenal? Reduce global terrorism? If those were, in fact, the reasons for invading Iraq, then the invasion would have to be classified as a failure. But what if the real reason was to secure Iraq’s oil supplies, perhaps not for immediate use, and perhaps not even for use by the United States? Then the invasion of Iraq would have to be judged a success, a “mission accomplished,” so to speak.Or take Bush’s seemingly irresponsible handling of the domestic economy. How can any sane person fail to understand that cutting revenue while increasing spending will produce deficits, and that those deficits cannot increase in perpetuity? Sooner or later that accumulated debt has got to have consequences. Bush appears to be acting as if there were no tomorrow.
Link :Questions & Thoughts (http://benotdeceived.blogspot.com/)

And the Oscar goes to:

While I can't deny some of the "beefs" we have against Bush- the question still asks "is he the antichrist?"

The issues you raise are more of a political one. Republicans always benefit the rich, and Democrats benefit the less rich.

Now a little story, por favor. When my daughter heard that I didn't vote in 2004, she ( a grad student) said quite"dramatically"- "How could you not vote for Kerry? Bush is the "Demon seed!". Oh forget about it. First of all, "Don't be saying things like that about him. He is a Christian man. A you, dear daughter, shouldn't be talking like that! You are a born-again Christian. So cool it! "
I keep in mind that she has friends and some of those friends like to say things b/c they are cool. Yeah, so cool? Like how cool it is to have the next diagnosed mental illness and take Prozac for? Oh how cool is that. This one or that one saying that they think that one has a Borderline personality disorder?

I think some of them have too much money or time on their hands b/c - I don't want to put anything really in her mind but- Is this "troubled" friend cutting their f------ arms up? I don't think so!

So now we have Bush- a Republican. He's helping the businesses' bottom line, but not the workers' paychecks.

So, where's the Democrat? Or Independent?

For the time being, we should pray for those in authority and our country. The Bible says- BLESSED are the PEACEMAKERS-- not the PEACEKEEPERS... there is a big difference.

And what's happening from what I read -- that in the job that Bush has to do... that PEACE is a PROCESS!

God BLESS! :rolleyes:

The American voters have to accept some of the responsibility for electing some of the duffess characters to represent us so hopefully the next elections will bring about enough change so we don't have to worry if the Antichrist is our president or not!:cool: :eek:

AMEN ScottGem!

And as for Katrina, yea, now Bush has his tail between his legs and is fixing things now, but TO LITTLE TOO LATE. What about all of the poverty that was ignored before Katrina happened? What about all of the people that were forgotten when Katrina struck? THe Levie's would have held up better if they had been updated to begin with, and not after the fact. No, this is not all Bush's fault, but once again, it just goes to show you that he should worry about what is happening here in the US, and not what is good for his pocketbook. Period.


OMG, I cannot believe you are blaming the poverty in New Orleans and Katrina on Bush, apparently you have nothing better to do!! Poverty exists all over this country, it is not the president's fault no matter who the president is. If you do not like the poverty, then start giving out money and letting people stay in your house. Those people were not forgotten, the CHOSE not to leave New Orleans. And, please do not tell me you are blaming the levies on Bush!! Why didn't Clitoris, sorry Clinton fix them?

He is not worrying about his pocketbook he is worrying about the country. Go to WAR, kill those people before they kill my 4 year old!! Did we have a choice with the planes flying into the WTC? H** NO!!

At least this man is doing the job he was elected to do!! He is not in the Oval Office getting his you-know-what sucked off!! That is the man that wanted only for his pocketbook and his penis!!

Anyone thinks they can do a better job under the circumstances then you run for office!! How many of you voted? If you did not vote you have no right to criticise!!

OMG, I cannot believe you are blaming the poverty in New Orleans and Katrina on Bush,

First, if you read what you quoted from CGirl, she did say; " No, this is not all Bush's fault,". As for blaming the levees on Bush, it was Bush's administration that cut funding that might have strengthened them. So, yes, you could lay some of that blame on Bush.

As for Bush worrying about the country, you apparently aren't paying much attention. How much time has Bush spent vacationing on his ranch?

As for whether he is doing the job he was elected to, that is highly debatable. But lets say he is doing the job, then he is doing it very badly.

Your trying to justify Bush by citing Clinton's sexual escapades is just trying to divert focus from the real issue. Yes Clinton's presidency was marred by the Lewinsky thing. But try an look past that peccadillo. Try looking at how good the economy was under Clinton. Whatever problems Clinton had, you can't say he wasn't there doing his job, you can't say he didn't care about his constituents. I can't say the same for Bush.

Look at the good Clinton continues to do. They announced today that he has convinced the drink industry to cease selling sugared sodas to schools to help combat obesity in kids. Can you imagine Bush convincing the Oil industry to forgo profits to lower prices?

And yes, not only did I vote, but I worked in both the Gore and Kerry campaigns.

I always voted since I was 18 and I can say George sucks as a president and all our grandkids will be paying for it! The best antichrist impersonation I've ever seen!:cool: :eek: :mad:

Well I didn't vote obviously, because I am not an American citizen and don't live in the United States. But I still believe I have a right to an opinion about the president, because the President of the United States is an extremely important person in the grand scheme of things... he's basically the leader of the free world. So decisions he makes (especially foreign policy decisions) don't just effect Americans they also effect those of us who are outside the USA.

As for J_9's post, I feel like I should defend what I wrote. 1st off, yes I DID vote. Secondly, I am not saying poverty is Bush's fault, but it is a known fact that his campaign has always benefited the rich and hurt the poor, and soon our middle class will be wiped away to nothing. Katrina was not his fault, BUT maybe if he wouldn't have been so focused on being the BIG TOUGH president trying to "save" the Iraqi people, those people in New Orleans would have been better informed and gotten out of there. AND NO, they were not all "informed" and chose to stay, some of them did not have the means to get out of there, and the whole busing thing proved to be a big mess. Yes, there is poverty all over the country, Katrina was just a perfect example of how America's people are being forgotten by the Bush administration. I've said it once and I will say it again, Bush needs to focus more on what is happening here in the United States, like the drug problem that is killing our teens everyday in this country, and poverty is one of the main causes of this. WE AS A NATION ARE BEING IGNORED!!

Politics of oil: Cheney visits Kazakhstan
U.S. eyes huge resources, also notes country's weak human rights record

The Associated Press
Updated: 9:48 a.m. ET May 5, 2006


ASTANA, Kazakhstan - Vice President **** Cheney traveled to Kazakhstan on Friday for talks with President Nursultan Nazarbayev, seeking to maximize access to the vast oil and gas reserves in the central Asian nation with a troubled human-rights record.

Cheney became the fourth top administration official to visit the former Soviet republic in recent months, underscoring the importance placed on a country that is strategically located and an ally in the war on terror, as well as rich in energy resources.

Administration policy favors development of multiple means of delivering Kazakhstan's energy supplies to markets in the West and elsewhere.

Among them, Assistant Secretary of State Richard Boucher told Congress recently, the United States is “working on securing the flow of oil” from North Caspian oil fields by tanker to a pipeline terminus in Azerbaijan. That route would bypass Russia and Iran. There has also been periodic talk of building a pipeline under the Caspian Sea.

Rights record 'remains poor'
Energy aside, one senior administration official said the vice president would prod Nazarbayev to make further democratic reforms in the country he has ruled since the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991.

“The government's human-rights record remains poor,” according to a recent State Department report.

It was unclear how Cheney would attempt to balance the two concerns — American energy needs in a time of high prices alongside a desire for political reforms. His talks came one day after a speech to East European leaders in Lithuania that sharply criticized Russia for backsliding on democracy.

One senior administration official traveling with Cheney said the remarks, which drew quick criticism from Moscow, had been “very well vetted” in advance within the administration.

Officials disclosed belatedly that while in Lithuania to attend a meeting of eastern European leaders, Cheney had met Thursday afternoon with Inna Kulei, the wife of the jailed Belarusian opposition leader, Alexander Milinkevich.

Meanwhile, a private group said Kazakh authorities on Friday barred an opposition leader from traveling to the capital Astana for a meeting with Cheney.

Police refused to grant Galymzhan Zhakiyanov permission to leave his home city, the commercial capital Almaty, the For a Fair Kazakhstan Alliance said in a statement. Zhakiyanov and other leaders of the alliance were invited to meet with Cheney in Astana on Saturday.

Last month, Zhakiyanov and another opposition leader, Bolat Abilov, were barred from leaving the country for meetings with European officials. Sentenced to seven years in prison for abuse of office, Zhakiyanov was considered the Central Asian nation's highest-profile political prisoner before his early release in January.


HERE IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF THE TRUE REASON THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH ANOTHER COUNTRY-OIL;)

Yes, but I hear it's the Democrats that are against tappinginto our own oil because of environmental issues, ie: Alaska, Gulf of Mexico, Arizona, Texas, etc.

Why do they do that? I don't understand the BIG environmental issue regarding that?
:cool:

I don't understand the BIG environmental issue regarding that?
:cool:Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's not a big issue.

Yes, but I hear it's the Democrats that are against tappinginto our own oil b/c of environmental issues, ie: Alaska, Gulf of Mexico, Arizona, Texas, etc.

Why do they do that? I don't understand the BIG environmental issue regarding that?
:cool:

Its not true that Democrats per se are against tapping into resources. However, many people, Democrats among them, are concerned about the environmental impact of such actions. If you are not aware of the very real impact of such actions, I suggest you do some research because there are too many things to go into in a forum like this.

I will say this, the planet has a relatively delicate balance in its ecology. Anything that has an impact on that balance can, and often does, have repercussions that have not been given full consideration in the past. Smog, Acid rain, global warming, endangered species are all consequences of the wanton rape of the environment in the past.

At least I'm an objective thinker. You like to use that word IGNORANT a lot! You don't win anybody over with that attitude.

Why don't you put your arrogance in your back pocket and maybe be able to describe the environmental issue ! Describe- "PER SE". Is it not the Democrats that are against drilling or not. Are my media sources wrong?
Because YOU, a seemingly Democrat, don't seem to be very convincing.

Are my media sources wrong?
Yes.

http://today.reuters.com/investing/financeArticle.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=2006-05-02T220942Z_01_N02307543_RTRIDST_0_ENERGY-ALASKA-OIL.XML
No mention of Democrats, it's the environmental groups.

Alaska Oil Drilling - GovSpot Issues (http://www.govspot.com/issues/anwr.htm)
Look at the Supporters and Opponents, no mention of Democrats

BBC NEWS | Americas | Senate blocks Alaska oil drilling (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4549884.stm)
The plan fell 4 votes short. Obviously all the repubs aren't buying into it.

Do you want me to continue?

To all participants,

As this thread has gone so far off course from the original question I'm closing it.

Thank you.