I have been with my husband 12 years and married for 5. I never married him for looks but he is the most beautiful person I have ever known. I was fresh sixteen when I met him and we are a family with one child now with one on the way. He still puts me and my daughter first above his needs a “true gentleman” and I mean we still hold hands, he still holds the door at times, and walks on the dangerous side of the sidewalk so to speak. Best of all tells me he loves me at the end of each telephone call. I am in love with him just the same as before, if not more. Anyone that meets him ardors him, he is easygoing and likable.

We do engage in having sexual intercourse couple times a week since my daughter was born 1 ½ ago so I am not complaining about his performance. I just have a slight issue around his porn. He is been hiding porn forever, even while dating... about that time I should have realized that I had three choices (1) to change it, (2) accept it, or (3) move on. My guy friends at the time where so open with it I thought was weird but figured he was embarrassed and I didn't have the right to probe besides sex was good. He likes his porn, he likes it private, and he does not want me involved in any shape or form whatsoever. That was fine 5 years ago but till this day he is not open with it and he hides it and lies about it. It has escalated from then to larger lump sums of explicit material and some fetishes adopted but it is nothing to be alarmed about. I laugh because he tries to cleverly hide it all away but unfortunately for him I am a good cleaner and run across it. The most important thing is, sometimes I leave it, other times I bring it out and set it in plain view in our room, and I don't say anything to attack, embarrass or upset him (but boy does his mood change from good to bad without directing it to me). Instead I try to be supportive and I have given up explaining or trying to convince him its OK, so at times I will avoid the subject just so he sees that it is really no big deal (ignoring it). Arguing only makes it worse. But that doesn't work because he just hides it again... and again... and again! I tried sharing my stuff but he holds out, and I don't want him taking advantage of me either. For some time it seems as though everything is going well, he's opening up, he admits his problem and he sees I support him. I don't get emotional about it, I just tell him that its exhausting to go over the same thing over and over again. He says he will change but "his stash is always in his words "thrown out"". In the end I always get the same results and the same response “those aren't mine their my brothers” or “oh, I threw them out”. So now I have my stash and he has his. I just would feel better if he didn't hide it you know? After all there is nothing to be ashamed of everyone does it! I just don't want to do this for the rest of our lives. He is a man and I am a woman and this is normal and sexual desire is normal for “both” of us. He looks, I look, he fantasizes well guess what... I do too... like that is news! I respect that some things should remain discreet and I don't have high any expectations of him, just be honest and truthful just like most men have it and leave it. What's the problem here? For the first 3 years in our marriage we only did it monthly, which started it. For a long time I thought it was me, I know it wasn't and I am not jumping to conclusions I just think that he had a major addiction and it is getting better. All I am trying to do is understand him and support him. We had talk couple months ago (these talks are relatively short and from my heart…I don't want to impede or agitate an already sensitive subject, which also means I don't get emotional about it) and since then we have gone to stores together and I like to have him buy stuff for me. But for some reason he can't pick out a porn?

This all leads me back to my three choices (1) to change it, (2) accept it, or (3) move on. (1) Change it. I know I can't change it because I can not change him, but I have the power to change myself…how do you change your perspective on it? Or what can I change about myself to make myself feel better about the situation? (2) Accept it. I have no alternative but to accept it as it is, as he is? (3) Move on. Is it really that big of an issue that a separation/divorce can be a result. The hiding is the problem not the porn.

Thank you for taking your time to read my question and thank you for any helpful and constructive responses.

So if I understand you correctly, it's not the porn per se that bothers you, but the fact that he hides it? Believe it or not, you do have a 4th option - ignore it. If it's the porn that's the problem, you need to sit down with your husband and express your feelings in no uncertain terms. Men have a way of drifting off when "feelings" get involved. Once you've said your peace, stop searching for a stash, and do you best to let it go. The ball with then be in his court and hopefully his conscience will guide him.

He hides AND lies about it. I agree it's weird since the PO has given him every possible message that she's okay with it. Has he never admitted he used any of it?

Xoxa, How does he react to your "stash" of porn?

He admits he has a problem with porn but not particularly the hiding part. I don't have a problem with the porn (unless it changes our sex life) just the hiding part. I find it dishonest and if someone is misleading me I am not sure whether to entirely trust that individual.

He gets upset when he finds my stuff, he gets moody and calls me a hypocrite I said oh really that's different huh? He never responds.

I think I just need to concentrate on other things this will never change. I was really hoping for a better answer but aside from that I am happy.

That helps me understand him better. Still, it's unclear to me if your husband really hasn't got the message that the porn is okay with you, or if he is pretending to not get that message so he can continue to object to yours. I'm favoring the second, that HE's the one who is being hypocritical. But it could also be partly that he just loves having it be a secret, that that's part of what makes it exciting to him.

I went through something similar but different with a recent boyfriend. We had given up on the idea of a long term relationship (in part because I couldn't trust him) and he told me he was reregistering at a dating site and beginning to date others. It hurt me at first, but then I accepted it and I made it clear I accepted it, even though we continued in an on and off friends with benefits sort of relationship for a little while. I just wanted to know how far he was going with his dates. But although I knew he was seeing other women, he wouldn't ever admit that he was really dating, even though he'd told me he was. He kept telling me it was just social, that he wasn't looking for anyone. But, as I asked him, "Do your dates know that?"

No matter how open I was with this guy and easy about his dating, he continued to lie about it. He would downplay everything and leave things out. A dinner date and a concert was "canceled at the last minute" or "just a phone call." A second date was a first date that didn't go well, and so on. He just lied for no reason. After 6 weeks, I started dating myself and eventually met someone I cared about. I then told my ex boyfriend I couldn't stay in contact. He was upset and continues to write or call now and then, although I've tried to discourage him. I think I'm now one of the people who he uses to try to emotionally "cheat" on whoever he's seeing now.

Thinking it over, I think he just liked the thrill of lying to me and feeling he was in control of the situation, maybe he liked almost cheating without the guilt or risk of actually getting involved with two people, which would be messy, I guess.

Anyway, maybe porn isn't exciting for your husband unless it's a secret. Or maybe he wants to be able to object to yours. What do you think?

A word to the wise:

Don't pick on your husband!! Nobody is perfect, and his use of porn isn't effecting his real life responsibilities.

Forget about this and find yourself a hobby... broaden your life and enjoy! Talk about your new interests with your husband. Be an interesting lady!!


Best wishes, :)

Fact(s):
Guys are visual creatures. They like looking at women.
Hiding is bothersome to you.
The porn is all over the house.
You have a young child.
Husband is good otherwise.

Solution: (as I see it)
He has to put his toys away. Get him a toybox. A small file cabinet. Posibly lockable in the future.

Tell hubby, that the porn goes in this box when your done with it. If I find it in the same spot for 24 hours, I'm throwing it away. If it's in the box, I won't bother it. It's not good for our kids. It's not good for company to find it. I'll respect your privacy, but you have to put it away.

If you find it when he is home, ask him to put it in his toybox before he goes to bed. When your both in bed, get up and check. If it's there cut it up and throw it away, but don't make an issue out of it.

For the first month, if you find it, you'll put it back in the box.

It's a very simple compromise. A toybox. Put stuff back when your done playing.

This wasn't about kids --one of which isn't even born yet--nor about the OP being uninteresting to her husband. These answers seem patronizing and not relevant to her concern, which is that he obsessively hides and lies about something she has told him directly he doesn't need to hide from her at all.

Hello:

Even if I didn't need to hide my magazines, I would anyway. Who wants 'em laying all over the house?

excon

I put away the dishes, too, so they aren't all over the counters. I even hide the dirty laundry basket sometimes. But that's different from telling my partner I never have any dirty laundry or don't have or use any dishes and she shouldn't either.

I agree that if he's wonderful in every other way, it may be just something that's very weird about him. But it is weird.

Only a serious 20 something bachelor pad would have porn laying around.

With a child it would be prudent to hide it.

My recommendation is just deal with it. Unless the collection has grown to closet size. A box of private stash is nothing to worry or sweat over.

smoothy, your right... it's not affecting our sex life! So until it does I will leave it be... and if it gets worse... really bad, then I think family counseling for him (and me) would be ideal... oh and if we ace it... a second honeymoon after! Keep it positive.

Thank you for your responses... I really appreciate the difference of opinions. :)

Mmm seems like this is the only issue with him-you have virtually nothing to complain about. The rubbish that my wife has to put up with on the other hand...


I think that the concept of a toy box seems brilliant to me-I think that will definitely work.

He is dishonest, but you have a stash as well? I'm not sure what this is supposed to "cure" or rectify?

Anyway,
I'd drop it, but then again, I'm not a woman or a wife for that matter.

Cheers.

He can't have a toy box without HIDING it! The purpose of that is pointless, my simple goal is to have an open (not too open of course) marriage. I have my stash since he masturbates more then we have sex and what am I suppose to do sit there in heat? No, I have toys and I play on my time too so I don't go... well you know! I tried the toy-box concept. I can't get in a guys head and every other guy friend of mine thinks he's crazy.

I think as suggested this is nothing but a waste of energy for me and I need to focus it somewhere else, that's all. But it was really interesting to see the different objective points of view. Much appreciated from all.

Well he shouldn't be polishing the knob while you sit there in heat. Now if you were brushing off his advances that would be a totally different thing.

Is your head that far up your a** that you don't even hear what I am saying?

You are saying you love him but he has this one strange behavior that bothers you. You want him to be open with it and not hide or lie about it.
What reasons does he give you for hiding and lying about it?

You say he hides it BUT I am sure you MUST realize he DOES know you always do find it so in his eyes he is stashing it not hiding it. I agree with the others, get a box for him to put it in and when you 'find' it just put it in that box and don't make a big deal out of it.

Non of the advise given was appropriate. You need to understand... its a secretive thing, like having an affair it releases certain feelings of "she has no idea" like adrenaline or something alike. But, I know what I am facing. We have arranged for some counseling for him for us and more importantly for myself. After meeting with us both, so far the counselor has raised this issue of a major concern and in confidence he said to me that it was abnormal behavior especially if it develops any further and can result to infidelity (especially if this is the only issue in our marriage). From his observation of me he said there shouldn't be a problem. Your young, attractive, extremely ethnic, sexually active, willing and able... open and ready to communicate. He also said that over the last five years of dealing with this amongst my career and all other stresses, I have developed what is called an anxiety disorder and body pain (I thought great! This is all I need).

Like I have mentioned in my previous posts, I have taken my focus off the situation and on to myself. I trust that this counselor will guide us both in the right direction or even just one of us. I have started up my art landscaping and abstract portraits for personal development, I have dedicated a room in the house for creative works with plants and animals. You would not believe the work coming from my hands... its amazing, I thought I lost it a long time ago. I have also started my nature trail expeditions for peace of mind and spiritual awareness. I now know that I needed time for me. Now that everything is in the air he is concerned, I took my ring off (so it doesn't bear as a constant reminder of us but so that I can go inwards and work on me first) and have requested for a brief separation... I need my time to think of me and my children. Again its only temporary, but I think we both need a break from each other. He is really upset and persistent about getting back together in September for our anniversary and he absolutely hates the fact that I am not spending time with him but I really need this time to gather the pieces up off the floor that I left behind and start fresh and get in touch with my roots. This is not just about him... this is about my life. I think once I have had some good time to reflect on what's important to me and he has the same opportunity we will get back together and work as a unit as it should be. But one step at a time. Thanks for the advise but my counselor advised me that the statements made herein where inappropriate and demeaning and I will not be participating in this discussion anymore.

Well that's just great. You ask for advice, you comment on the advice given in a negative manner, you get defensive an argumentative, then you say "I'm out, Ive had enough, the advice was inappropriate"... Holy mackerel, some people are hard to deal with.

Good luck,

Cheers. Thanks for dropping in.

I'll second what Xrayman said. If you had all the answers to life then why did you need to ask for advice. A sign of maturity is to listen to advice even if you might not agree. An immature person will ask advice and discount what they don't want to hear.

Perhaps you will learn to listen what you don't want to hear before you make a serious mistake in life.

Her counselor doesn't sound all that great with the advice either as far as the hubbie looking at it like a secret affair... unless he feels the getting caught is safer somehow.
I must inform others that it is abnormal for them to hide their porn too I suppose?
Here I thought when my ex was hiding his Playgirl books it was more an adolescent 'boys will be boys' type thing than a secret affair type thing.

It's more complicated then just that... there is a lot I have reserved your only getting some of what's going on but the important thing is I need to get myself together. It's not just about this, there are revolving issues. It's nothing we can't work out but in the meantime I just want to concentrate on my baby and my pregnancy and it starts with me and not him and his issues anymore. So the counselor is constructive and he is just rendering his decision on the basis of what we both discuss and finding solutions that work... it starts with communication not a toybox... sometimes you need an objective and neutral person to point flaws out on both partners accounts.

You asked him for a separation; so you asked him to leave for a while?

Anyway, if you have reserved a lot, it's true that people here can't get a sense of things from just a few paragraphs compared to talking to someone for an hour. On the other hand, I think there's a lot of communal wisdom here. We don't all agree, but I think most of us do understand that it's his secretive behavior that worries you.

Anyway, good luck and congratulations on rediscovering your artistic self. I hope the birth goes well and you and your husband can fix things up soon.

You asked him for a separation; so you asked him to leave for a while?

Anyway, if you have reserved a lot, it's true that people here can't get a sense of things from just a few paragraphs compared to talking to someone for an hour. On the other hand, I think there's a lot of communal wisdom here. We don't all agree, but I think most of us do understand that it's his secretive behavior that worries you.

Anyway, good luck and congratulations on rediscovering your artistic self. I hope the birth goes well and you and your husband can fix things up soon.

Well not really separation just some time apart, we agreed on about a month and I feel its in my best interest... I can't even get 15 minutes alone in the bath... its either my daughter or him (could you imagine me trying to paint for a couple of hours - yeah, not going to happen at least with baby she can finger paint :)). I need him to respect my space and maybe I will give him his. So, its just me needing space and it is going great, we go on dates and take turns with the baby... plus I am focusing on what really matters... my pregnancy and we will get back together soon. We have no intentions of splitting up... we still do love each other undoubtedly just need to make some constructive time to ourselves - everyone needs air right? Thank you for the pep talk and a push into the right direction.

A man has to have his private life just as a woman should have her own private business.

As long as you are treated well, just leave this whole issue alone. He keeps it private; it's not in your face. :)

Best wishes going forward,

Fun stuff... thanks...

April, let me start by saying that I have appreciated many of your posts on the AS boards. There have been a great many instances in which you have been kind, generous, thoughtful and patient.

That said, I just finished reading this entire thread for the third time, and I have some feelings about it that I would like to share with you. To be honest, I think you might have some things going on with you. Perhaps you would benefit from carefully reading this thread again from beginning to end. You might completely disagree with me. If this is the case, that's fine. I still think you might benefit from having someone tell you like they see it. Also, you should know that this isn't about the content of your question; it's about the way you've handled the information that was given to you.

I was confused by some of your responses. They looked like the kinds of things one would write if they were suffering from heavy mood swings. One minute you were happy, and the next you were lashing out without justifiable provocation.


I think I just need to concentrate on other things this will never change. I was really hoping for a better answer but aside from that I am happy.

Thank you for your responses...I really appreciate the difference of opinions. :)

...it was really interesting to see the different objective points of view. Much appreciated from all.
From all of these comments, it seemed that you were happy and highly appreciative of the different opinions that were offered to you.

And then...

Is your head that far up your a** that you don't even hear what I am saying?
Where did this come from? This was the first of your extremely rude comments that were entirely uncalled for. smoothy responded to the points you made referring to your husband's use of porn as a replacement for intimacy with you. I saw his comments as supportive of you, so I really don't know what caused you to lash out at him like that.

If you think that someone has not understood your question, then you should either consider the possibility that what you wrote was unclear, you should try to clarify yourself with different words, or you should just ignore it. These kinds of responses are neither constructive nor appropriate.


Non of the advise given was appropriate... Thanks for the advise but my counselor advised me that the statements made herein where inappropriate and demeaning and I will not be participating in this discussion anymore.

What on earth was this about? It looked to me like it flew right out of left field. I would sincerely like to know what you found to be so inappropriate and demeaning.

Did you show your counselor a copy of this thread? If not, what did you tell him it said for him to find it so offensive, inappropriate and demeaning?

I will also say that I found this post especially insulting considering how much members of this site wrote to support you from the very beginning. I thought that Asking was especially helpful and patient with you.
You might also consider how much attention your thread actually received. You were given a lot more help than most people get.

If you don't agree with members' suggestions, don't chew on their advice so that you can spit it in their faces. If you didn't like what you were hearing, you could have easily chosen not to take their advice. Of course, I still think there is a lot to be said for hearing new perspectives and ideas in relation to any difficult situation.


It's more complicated then just that...there is a lot I have reserved your only getting some of whats going on but the important thing is I need to get myself together. It's not just about this, there are revolving issues.

If you aren't giving us the whole story, you cannot possibly expect others to guess what else is going on. Your posts gave the impression that this is the only thing that has kept your marriage from being idyllic.


...it starts with communication not a toybox... sometimes you need an objective and neutral person to point flaws out on both partners accounts.

Can I suggest that you might not have understood the concept of the toy box as it was being presented? At least, as I saw it, keepitsimple made this suggestion so that you would know where any and all porn was. He also said that if the porn is continually hidden in other places, to throw it out as a consequence. His intention was to give you more power in the situation. He didn't suggest that a toy box would be a good replacement for communication in a relationship. With a young child in the house, this is an entirely reasonable idea.


Thank you for the pep talk and a push into the right direction.


Fun stuff...thanks...

This was, again, unnecessarily rude.

I'm really not interested in policing the threads. I just found this one to be so far out there that it deserved my attention. The only reason anyone responded to your thread was to help you. If you didn't want to hear their opinions, then you shouldn't have asked for them. I am sure their time would be better spent helping people who really do appreciate their advice.

As this is a private and anonymous arena in which many of us come to learn and grow, I think these were worth saying... and hearing. Honestly, I think the people who came here to help you deserve an apology from you. That's just my opinion.

With all of this said and done, I do think you bring many special, wonderful and unique qualities to the table. I think you're generally very sweet and highly perceptive. Just consider how others might be perceiving your words from the way you have presented them here.

(one last thing... don't take this the wrong way, but I keep wanting to ask you to break your posts up a little bit more. Maybe it's just me, but I always find they're easier to read that way. I'm sorry if you have taken offense to the things I have written, as my intention was not to be hurtful to you. I wish you well.)

Firstly, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your personal, thorough and constructive response to my evidently discourteous past posts and with all due respect none of what you said was taken inadvertently. Congratulations on your successful policing :), I feel obligated to respond to your public post. I agree there are a lot of deserving threads (this I know being one of them) there are ones that have name-calling to the OP which is awful but not lesser in the least. I must have made some sort of an impression on you on other threads for you to view all my posts on the AS Boards.

Clearly, I had made this thread when I first joined the site in August with many unresolved emotional dilemma's which not all where outlined appropriately. This I respectfully understand will make it harder for someone to assist. At that time I may have not been prepared to hear exactly what was being said, however, my responses, some of which may have not been suitable or had I carefully thought of how my responses would effect others or how it would be understood on the receiving end (many of which where not “intentionally” intended to be inconsistent, unstable and/or volatile, but where). You can understand, I had enough of what was going on at that time and became unstable, depressed and angry and as a result of that I was lashing out to undeserving recipients which are typical stress responses (not excusable in any event). In many of my posts I did admit that the changes had to start within myself and thanks to Choux…I started a hobby which opened a lot of therapeutic insight and personal passion. I do not feel at liberty to share any more information due to your post other then when I initially brought it up to the counselor, I did pull a copy of this thread as per his request. He didn't like it because he “could” assess the situation from both standpoints and had clear knowledge of what was going on in both partners lives, some posts where not constructive for my situation nor where they relevant (In his opinion) and I needed a different approach as per "his" assessment.

I should have been more careful when “everyone” was suggested as that was not the case and in particular Asking actually provided the most support and also found some comments seemed patronizing and not relevant to my concern. Actually, Asking is by far, in my opinion, one of the most unbiased and optimistic persons on this site.

These posts below where not intended for this site and are evidently inconsistent with what was being said. Considering the last post was entered two months after; you can plainly see it was an inadvertent error. I run a few programs off my tool bar and type 86 words per minute, but for future reference I will close some programs and slow it down, you have obtained my full attention at that.

-Is your head that far up your a** that you don't even hear what I am saying?
-Fun stuff... thanks...

What you have presented to me herein was bold of you; I appreciate your concentration on this post. I have taken everything into account. So having said all of that, I sincerely apologize if I have offended anyone and thank you for your assistance and personal insight in this regard.

Wow.

I am actually quite impressed with the way you handled this. I will tell you that I was nervous about adding my last post for fear of creating unnecessary drama for you, for this thread and, also, for myself.

It's clear that you've been dealing with a lot over the last several months, and for that I am sorry.

I wish only good things for you as you continue to put each piece where it belongs.

I look forward to seeing you in other threads. Again, thank you.

Your post took a lot of time and effort and I thought was deserving a response. You can not base a person by one post... this particular thread was "my" problem and I evidently could not handle the situation well but no one is innocent of that :). Everyone has problems unique from everyone else; I am sure you can concur. We all fall only stand up and try walking again :).

linnealand you could not cause additional stress or drama but you did take steps in possible confrontation... if of course, that was your intention and if of course, I decided to take your post personal and retort. Besides I enjoy someone with a wholesome and healthy heart.

Things have "somewhat" improved and I still get "confused" (I guess I wouldn't be human if I didn't) thank you for asking and I have been going through a lot of big changes but they are all positive turn of events.

I am sure we will be meeting again... it was a pleasure.

Best regards,

I work for psychologists and psychiatrists who perform psychological evaluations for our court system. I mention this because these evals are more involved in examining behaviors and predicting future behaviors than a general visit to a "counselor."

Having said this : Generally, men hide porn out of embarrassment. This comes from knowing that the material is, or "should be" demeaning to women (particularly a woman he loves), and having been told it is wrong and/or disgusting.

It is embarrassing because porn is a tool for masturbation, which although perfectly natural, is intensely private. Very often, as a young male begins to discover porn and/or masturbation, a female who is in an authority position (mom) catches him in the act, or finds the porn, and scolds him. Depending on the embarasment this causes and the punishment that may have been given him, he will ALWAYS feel that he must keep is "dirty little secret." Especially when another female with authority (you) finds it.

Masturbation, or the accusation of masturbation, is often used as a means to tease, reject, or socially alienate. The use or possession of pornography is also used in this way. Men LOVE to tease other men about masturbatiing, porn, or having a blown up doll for a girlfriend.

Although we all know that men (and women) enjoy porn, whether it be online, magazines, movies, or even a live show, it is still considered by many to be a weakness of character. A flaw in a man's ability to be "faithful."

I would bet that your husband gets a flash of embarrassment from one or all of the above experiences, and this makes him unable to admit that the material belongs to him, and to refrain from sharing any of this side of himself with you. He does not trust that this is, and will remain, OK with you.

Many men are relieved to find a woman who is not offended by porn, and even accepting of it. Many others do not trust this aspect of the relationship, or feel that if the depth of his use (or possibly even addiction to porn) is discovered , she will become angry.

If you think he would not be offended, try buying a subscription to his favorite magazine(s) as a gift for him (if you're sure the porn doesn't bother you). He may be less likely to hide it if he can accept it as a gift from you. He may feel that you wouldn't give it to him if you thought badly about it, or lowly of him for having it.

Although we all know that men (and women) enjoy porn, whether it be online, magazines, movies, or even a live show, it is still considered by many to be a weakness of character. A flaw in a man's ability to be "faithful."


To give it another spin... look at the clientele at your local strip club. If you see someone walking in or out what is the first thing you think?

I imagine the prevailing thought is "wow - how pathetic". Granted, that person you just judged might be single, unattached, financially stable and otherwise a great person.

He has done nothing wrong... but he is still judged.

As open minded as our society has suggested it has become, it still holds certain things as "wrong" even though they are perfectly legal.

Failure begins@ fear

The situation with your husband is clearly an addiction problem.

This is the best way someone can help me if I was your husband, who loves his family and cares for his wife, but dwell in some secret weird activities and lie about it to my wife(as I definitely judge himself) is by not: continuously tell me why what am doing is wrong, or why what am doing is OK, I will prefer you to completely ignore me after making your true feeling known to me. I may continue in my mystery but my wife must realise that nobody can love someone more than they love themselves.

If you want to stay with me, you must ignore, to ignore, you need to totally ignore, not pretend, you need to hold no hard feelings, you must be strong and not fear.. when you fear, you fail... no matter how much you try, I will continue to get frustrated and I will turn the table around by criticizing you as he did.

At the end off it all, I will come to realise my short comings maybe by some bad experiences that may have occurred as a result of my open secret life.. but, will it be too late then? Only you can answer that question now... whenever I decides to be 100% open about it, you will be there with me and if you are not, I, unfortunately learnt the hard way

If you continue to frustrate yourself by reacting to the situation, I will turn you to what you are not.. ur personalty could be affected.. if you decide to stand by me, you must ignore, and just be normal.. thats if you are interested.. if you are not interested, and you know you can not condole me lying to you about porn, then lady, DECIDE NOW.

If you fear to make a decision you fail and the result isn't good news.


I pray that the love you have for him help you to turn him around so you can both have the wonderful life you both deserve.

[QUOTE=festalcom;1389447]failure begins@ fear
The situation with your husband is clearly an addiction problem. ]


I'm not sure that way to deal with something that "is clearly an addiction problem" is to totally ignore the addiction. True addiction is normally a behavior that that the addict needs help to overcome. Be it rehab for drug addiction, or cognitive therapy for behavioral addiction.

With addiction, the question the addict asks her/himself must be "Has this behavior reached a point where it is interfering in the normal progression of my life/relationship?"

I didn't get that feeling from the original post that this was the case, so I wouldn't label the issue an addiction. I agree that if the porn doesn't interfere in the relationship, and the problem is with the denial of it, then berating it over and over again may only force a deeper denial.

I stick by the suggestion of purchasing a subscription (or a "couples" trip to an adult store to explore the possibility of sharing a fantasy experience) may help to ease the embarrassment and hence the denial. After all, it's not necessary to deny or hide a gift from your significant other :)

Pam

I really appreciate these November posts... unbelievably insightful and on target... especially ibrat64! It was actually his dad…he would embarrass him in front of his neighbors and really mean stuff. So by me revealing it and reacting to it just added to his problem. I found this out in one of our sessions…I was upset that he never told me so I could take a different approach. My past reactions where destructive in this issue; if I would have only known I would have handled things with due diligence and care.

Stevetcg... I have no issues with the strip club... I "use" to go with my guy friends and sometimes by boyfriend (now husband) would come along. I found it simply entertainment and I totally agree with you only some men are there EVERY day and well, I feel sorry for them more then anything because they sit there when they can be going out and meeting people :(. Usually the every day clients lead very lonely social lives and you can't hold them to that and knowing a few myself I found that they where one of the nicest and generous people. (I use to work at one of the clubs as a server/waitress on the floor…sometimes I think the non-regulars gave me the worst end of the bargain - dancers don't get touched, directly hit on or bothered during the dance (nice to have regulars looking out for your safety and step up when someone is out of line…bar and staff knows them and they have somewhat of a poll of what happens around the club when the bouncers are preoccupied)) My hubby and I use to go to the clubs before our first and I found it just created the “right” tension for desire after…lots of couples go together. He does go on occasion but I never gave him a hard time about it because I know where he is going after, home.

Fastalcom, to better understand you, you are basically saying that he beats himself up over it without me telling him how I feel or "hounding" on him. This is true I am sure. That I need to make a decision to be supportive, patient and understanding... and to ignore it as it will only antagonize me, him and our relationship... let it go. Sometimes things are better not to be discussed and maybe they are things I really don't need to know (I could agree with that too :)). You are right about my reactions and it affecting personality (which it did) because it targeted my esteem and desire... I am sure you can tell by my past responses.

To update and for you to analyze…tell me what you think about this. Am I doing the right thing? Is there anything else I can do to help myself or help him?

1. We had a fall out prior to the counseling, its just hard for me because am sexually frustrated and hard for him because he has emotional issues (that I didn't know about). I have come to terms with it, I don't talk about it, I don't bring it up and at bed I don't expect him to advance (I have given up trying) kiss him goodnight, tell him I love him and go to sleep. By doing this I have chosen to ignore the situation and just be his wife.

2. I didn't actually say this to him but I thought instead of him wasting money on CD's I have arranged our satellite to have non-stop porn (with the option of locking it from my daughter (she likes to push buttons))... he can have at it all he wants now and since I am not giving him an option to hide it (its right there) then I can move on its working for me since that is generally all I wanted when I initially wrote my thread. So, this way I have it and he does too…no hiding, no problem.

3. As it goes for sexual tensions, it wasn't too bad in bed when I first wrote this thread but now I am completely neglected so I self stimulate that way I don't go completely crazy (though it is never the same thing). I am keeping myself busy and active to cope with it and looking at it in a new light so far so good.

4. New Drive: The counselor was helping but we haven't gone and since then and the hiding kicked up again but I think now the biggest problem is being pregnant gives you a lot of drive and excess emotions…sex is great when your pregnant but maybe not his cup of tea (evidently since its been over three months). This isn't just because of my pregnancy... this has been going on for four years (since we got married) its good for 5 months and then not so good for the remainder of the year... I don't get that but I am sure there is a reason for it maybe its medical? Also, previous to, we went to adult stores together and it seems to be getting better but its always short lived and he is always so ruff in bed... he doesn't' take the time to please me as I do for him (orally or whatnot) I feel like telling him that the porn is getting to his head. Sometimes that's what I want but not all the time (I like the use of organic material and new ideas – slow to fast, pleasure and being a element of earth... this is important to me but not to him). I don't actually get turned on before he decides to take me in my sleep. I wake up and don't know who, what, when and where I am…sometimes I think I am with someone else and freak out. Wow, I thought it was just hiding porn but now I find that as a result to that I am neglected and find him to be not so good in bed... but it takes two. He wasn't like that before we got married and the porn I am sure was always around. I just think I tried and he tried and it just isn't the answer, neither is starting a fight or ignoring it but I don't think I have much of a choice. I am pregnant (found out late June or early August) and have 2 more months to go so I don't need any additional stress but I have decided that in 2009 I am taking the "emotions" and turning into fuel. What I mean is I will be getting back into shape and using all that reserved emotion and energy to put it to work to better myself. I am better then I give myself credit for (before and after pregnancy) and my esteem issues got caught up in it, I should have known better; I should have known it wasn't about me. I have chosen to grin and bear it (since talking about it nicely won't work and he becomes very sensitive and upset…sometimes physically upset and I can't take any risks now being pregnant) until the pregnancy is over since it is so short term... when the baby is here I will be too tired to think about it and when I am ready to start getting back in shape I will be using up all my energy there. I will make attempts to show him my sexual appetite and ability to be flexible with his needs when I am ready after the baby. So relax for now, back off and give him some space. If things go back to the way they are now my fear is I don't know how long I am willing to wait for him to come around.

What do you think about this? Much appreciated for you taking the time to read this post, I know it was a long one.

I stick by the suggestion of purchasing a subscription (or a "couples" trip to an adult store to explore the possibility of sharing a fantasy experience) may help to ease the embarrassment and hence the denial. After all, it's not necessary to deny or hide a gift from your significant other :)

Pam

I have a question for you... I really appreciate your posts... why is it when we did go, he could pick out "anything" for me but have a hard time picking out a dvd we could share? I picked a few and asked him which one or if there was something else because I wasn't sure and he wouldn't help and said I am fine with whatever you want. Then I try to get us to watch it together and "I am not in the mood" comes from him. I evidently gave up on this because I thinks he prefers to do it on his own. Is it just case he's embarrassed? Or fears my response?

Xoxaprilwine, I am so sorry about your husband's problems. You have been as understanding and patient with him as any wife can be. I doubt many women would be as compassionate about this situation as you have been.

If he refuses to make love to you for long periods, it is normal for you to begin to think about infidelity. I have faith that you won't act on it. Don't beat yourself up about thoughts. I am impressed with your determination to use all your energy next year. That's very positive. Keep those goals! They will help you keep perspective through this difficult time.

Your husband's lack of interest in pleasing you sexually and his sometimes taking you in your sleep--to me that's a rape; have you talked to the counselor about this?--are demonstrations that he does not really cherish you the way he seems to in other contexts. Your feelings when he does this make perfect sense to me. I would not allow it myself. I would tell him if he ever does it again I will sleep elsewhere and lock the door. It's almost as if he doesn't want you to feel any pleasure.

I wonder if your now being a mother is part of the reason he has lost interest. He seems seriously messed up to me. I know you said early on that he was wonderful in all other ways. But you deserve better than this. You are young, vital, loving, kind to him, and there is really something wrong with him that he doesn't want you and appears to not to want to please you. It almost feels to me as if he is punishing you for being so attractive and eager for love. I'm not sure if that makes sense. I guess I'm thinking that he might (might) have some sort of madonna whore complex. And he can't handle the fact that you can be everything he needs, so he's sticking to pornography, which feels safer to him. Forgive me if you think this is all completely wrong. I'm trying to understand this guy through your posts...

I also wanted to thank you for the compliment you posted about me earlier. That was so nice to read! Thank you!

why is it when we did go, he could pick out "anything" for me but have a hard time picking out a dvd we could share? I picked a few and asked him which one or if there was something else because I wasn't sure and he wouldn't help and said I am fine with whatever you want.

I think this is a great question and highlights something important in the relationship. If he's not involved in the selection, then it's not really shared, is it? Why is he resisting sharing in this area? He does the same thing in bed, where if he's there at all, it's all about him. He's saying, in essence, "this DVD thing is your idea and I'm not going to engage with you about it." Passive aggressive. Do you think he wants to work on things at all? It seems like he is just getting everything he wants now, which is to have you for wife/mother to his kids and a separate sex life that consists of masturbation and porn.

It doesn't seem like he'd be motivated to change things if he doesn't want a sex life with you. If everything is perfect for him now, he can only lose by making changes. Maybe.

What's he like otherwise? Does he help with household chores significantly? Does take care of your daughter during the week? Does he pay the bills or repair things? What's his role in the household?

Please note that my contribution is based on IF I WAS UR HUSBAND... this method is had but it may help if some of us here as guys put ourself in his situation. Firstly, if I was your husband, I will go madddddddddddd if I find out that you are discusing me online. So , I think you should TAKE A DECISION and live by it.

From your latest post, am afraid I am beginning to see sign of you turning to a nagging, frustrated, etc wife which you are clearly not made up to be.. u cannot afford to be on this thread for too long if you want to save your marriage.

There is an unsolved pussle.. it says.. who rules the world?

Some say men rule the world

And some say women rule over men

So who rules the world?

The fact is both statements are correct. Take the second statement for example.. women rule over men.. how? Find out and victory will be yours.

I think this is a great question and highlights something important in the relationship. If he's not involved in the selection, then it's not really shared, is it? Why is he resisting sharing in this area? He does the same thing in bed, where if he's there at all, it's all about him. He's saying, in essence, "this DVD thing is your idea and I'm not going to engage with you about it." Passive aggressive. Do you think he wants to work on things at all? It seems like he is just getting everything he wants now, which is to have you for wife/mother to his kids and a separate sex life that consists of masturbation and porn.

It doesn't seem like he'd be motivated to change things if he doesn't want a sex life with you. If everything is perfect for him now, he can only lose by making changes. Maybe.

What's he like otherwise? Does he help with household chores significantly? Does take care of your daughter during the week? Does he pay the bills or repair things? What's his role in the household?

Asking, thanks for the support... I felt like I was losing control over myself for sometime... poking my brain trying to find solutions while trying to wage the angry war inside of me. Not having a balance and sound/clear approach. Aside from the thread and to answer your question he is a very handy guy, he does all the handy-man stuff around the house and has a sub-contractor labor job. I am left to the laundry, cleaning, cooking, his accounting/admin/receivables/billables/receipts/taxes etc because he said "I don't know anything, your smarter then me" and (as of last month) staying home with our daughter and baking one in the oven :) which is a fair exchange. I had a full-time job and I always resented his compliment; I think he's pushing his responsibility on me. I this also sounds like a bit of role playing... he was hoping for that, he sees my mom and thinks maybe I will be the same; but knows I would never weigh on hand and foot because I believe relationships should be mutual... still waiting for spaghetti 4 years later :D... so in a way I am. But most importantly, he also understands my need for independence and having a career that revolves around responsibility and accountably; I need adult interaction and I need to be intellectually challenged. He does show some aggressiveness when I talk about work and says he would like me to stay home but then supports the idea of me going back to school to either upgrade or change the direction of my career objectives? When I was working he got our daughter ready and out the door in the morning and would spend about 15 minutes with her after work but he likes his t.v. too and sometimes would potato couch it... I try to get us out for a walk but he says "I am too tired and I just got home; can't I relax for an hour" but I never bug him when he gets in the door, he has a shower, eats, has a beer and watches some t.v. I ask, then it ends up being the remainder of the night. Unless I grab the keys and leave... he won't move his butt, hehe. He does work a lot and he gives me money and I do all the budgeting (like his sub-contracting) which I hate because it leaves all the onus on me... I do all the administrative stuff in our lives which makes me feel inferior because I never wanted that he can't even pick up the phone to talk to anyone except for family and friends... I always ask him to help out make decisions but he wants no part of it so in some sense he is giving me control but I don't want it... I know because it leaves him with one less thing to worry about but I don't think he realizes how much additional stress he gives me on top of what I already do. When I leave for vacation I have to go buy food and pay all the bills in advance because I know nothing will be done when I get back. But that's typical of a guy :) and how many daddy's do their daughters hair in piggy tails :) for the most part everything seems to be OK... everyone has flaws, so do I, so I don't pick at all of them, I accept them because I love him but this one part of his life I don't think he wants me to understand. Our lives have been like this for sometime and it never affected our sex life before, I guess I am just trying to come to terms with it.

Fastalcom, I appreciate your post... I think I had a hard time fully understanding you in the first place and was trying to make sense of it since it didn't seem to clear to me.

“Fastalcom, to better understand you, you are basically saying that he beats himself up over it without me telling him how I feel or "hounding" on him. This is true I am sure. That I need to make a decision to be supportive, patient and understanding... and to ignore it as it will only antagonize me, him and our relationship... let it go. Sometimes things are better not to be discussed and maybe they are things I really don't need to know (I could agree with that too ). You are right about my reactions and it affecting personality (which it did) because it targeted my esteem and desire... I am sure you can tell by my past responses.”

Was I incorrect?…because for me to take your advice…I need to be sure I understand you :). True enough I don't think he would be impressed if he found out I was talking about him online but I don't exactly have anyone to talk to since he has been the only thing in my life since I was sweet sixteen. I have made a lot of sacrifices for him too so I did choose to accept some things and change others; I did post them. So far our marriage seems to be stable, affection and intimacy are being given in other ways (kissing, cuddling, tickling and by him & I telling each other we love each other after every telephone call) I know he loves me and I love him…just this one thing which I hope I have taken the right steps to mitigate. I appreciate your comment about men/women ruling the world but that dosen't really give me advice. Of course I will seem nagging you're my husband and I am a frustrated wife... when are wives not nagging, pestering and redundant? And when are husbands not passive, selective listeners? I think we all have our challenges being the sexes we are but you said something about being "open" and it ruining your marriage or it not being the best decision and you regret it. What do you mean?

Is your advice telling me to get off the computer and go and ignore (is this the DECISION you indicated or is what I am doing on the right path) the situation to save my marriage? Please help me understand. Because I did make decisions... I just wanted everyone to tell me if I made the "right" ones.

God I think he's right though... this is the first time the dirty laundry came out and I feel better now but it is difficult putting yourself out there... it took a huge piece of me to get out and post this thread. I think I have given everyone a clear idea of my life now and will just read the posts from hereon in (too much information).

Thank you for everything.

..who rules the world?

some say men rule the world

and some say women rule over men

so who rules the world?

the fact is both statements are correct. take the second statement for example..women rule over men..how? find out and victory will be urs.

There is plenty of objective evidence that men rule the world. They make laws, control most finances, exert political power in myriad ways, decide when a nation goes to war and which cities will be bombed, shut down access to contraceptives in developing nations (or allow them to be made available), and so on. You only have to look at the pictures in the Wall Street Journal or any similar publication to see who is in charge of making most major decisions.

In contrast, there's little objective evidence that "women rule over men." The fact that most men depend on women for sexual satisfaction, for reproduction, and, in some households, to provide services such as laundry, cooking, cleaning, child care, errands, and book keeping does not make women "rulers" any more than a modern domestic servant or a 19th century slave was a ruler. Women are useful, indeed necessary. But they do not rule the world.

It was also an unhelpful answer.

Whether we like to admit it or not, the male brain is wired differently than the female brain. Sex and sexual stimuli fall within this category.
Men are "hard wired" to seek out many different females for sex. This drive is useful as it creates the best/most opportunities for offspring (whether having children is desired or not, the brain says have sex. Make babies. Procreate. Pass long your DNA). Women on the other hand are wired to find a man who will provide for and protect the family unit, so we expect fidelity.

Not all sex drives are created equally. Some men are more comfortable with substitutes for physical sex often due to the emotional disconnection. It's easier to self-pleasure than to worry about the pleasure/satisfaction of a partner. Worrying about their ability to please can defeat them before the sex act even starts. Therefore it's easier not to have sex, than to feel inadequate.
There are psychological reasons for a lower than average sex drive.
1) It's often difficult for men to continue to have sex once the female has given birth. She is now a mother. He has a mother. Mother's are not sexual objects.
2) It's possible that what turns him on would, in his view, be objectionable to you. Rough play, role playing, bondage, or just simply "I need a release. This will only take a minute."
3) Also, since sex is actually a brain function (fact, not fiction) it may be that having intercourse does not live up to his expectations. In his mind, the scene plays out entirely different. There are no expectations of him. No failures. No giggles. No uncomfortable positions. No leg cramps, etc.

It is very important to understand that NONE OF THIS IS YOUR FAULT. You had absolutely nothing to do with how his sexual maturity came about. Whether it be his self doubt, a run of the mill low sex drive, or any other reason, You did not create it, and you cannot take responsibility for righting it.

Now, as to why he might not speak up while choosing a movie: The list is long, but my gut feeling is that he has needs that he isn't comfortable with, and so does not expect you to be comfortable with. This can be almost anything from preferring fetishes like BDSM, latex, pain, and humiliation, to not wanting to offend you my liking redheads more than brunettes (or whatever your hair color is). Don't forget that the reason most people keep their secrets secret is because they feel it is too risky to share. It doesn't make him a bad person (unless the secret is illegal), it just means that the two of you need to find a way to a meeting of the minds.
Not an easy task. Your frustration will eventually leak out. It is very difficult to keep emotions in check if you're feeling neglected. If you are not getting what you need, but he seems to be satisfied by the status quo (with the help of the porn), your options are rather limited.
You said before that you've tried ignoring the problem. That only works for the short term.
You can't "fix" the problem if he doesn't think there's anything to fix. Continued counseling may help, but again, only if there is something the counselor can correct.
So, ultimately it falls to you. Can you live with the issue? Are you able to say to yourself, "I have a wonderful husband, who is a terrific father, and hard worker. He just happens to have a low sex drive, and prefers his sex with "Miss Michigan."
Can you feel satisfied in a relationship that isn't physically sexual? Can you get your emotional fix in other ways, such as dinners out, firelight "chick" movies at home, couples body massage,etc?
I think you mentioned that you've been together for 12 years. That's wonderful! It's great that you want to continue a physical relationship. Can you reconcile yourself to moving to the next level in the marriage where it's simply nice to have the stability, and a great friend whom you happen to love? This is the level that those who stay married for 50 years, find the most satisfaction. Friendship.

I think you answered yourself in the last paragrah, but Porn like Religion and Politics can be a touchy subject even amongst married couples.

Now in breaking down your story many things popped out to me. Read them like this and tell me what this says about you and him?

Your title : My Husband Hides Porn and I Think It's Stupid "I never married him for looks but he is the most beautiful person I have ever known.
"I just have a slight issue around his porn."
"He likes his porn, he likes it private, and he does not want me involved in any shape or form whatsoever."
"I laugh because he tries to cleverly hide it all away"
"I bring it out and set it in plain view in our room, and I don't say anything to attack, embarrass or upset him"
"Instead I try to be supportive and I have given up explaining or trying to convince him its ok, so at times I will avoid the subject just so he sees that it is really no big deal (ignoring it). "

I think you answered yourself in the last paragrah, but Porn like Religion and Politics can be a touchy subject even amongst married couples.

Now in breaking down your story many things popped out to me. Read them like this and tell me what this says about you and him?

Your title : My Husband Hides Porn and I Think It's Stupid "I never married him for looks but he is the most beautiful person I have ever known.
"I just have a slight issue around his porn."
"He likes his porn, he likes it private, and he does not want me involved in any shape or form whatsoever."
"I laugh because he tries to cleverly hide it all away"
"I bring it out and set it in plain view in our room, and I don't say anything to attack, embarrass or upset him"
"Instead I try to be supportive and I have given up explaining or trying to convince him its ok, so at times I will avoid the subject just so he sees that it is really no big deal (ignoring it). "

It looks bad is how it looks, and it feels just as bad. I admit I have made mistakes but I honestly didn't know half of what was going on in his head either until one of our sessions with the counselor. Which it seems he failed to address some things. I guess I needed a break down of how it is but at that time it wasn't a big deal... my needs where met to some extent, now sex is obsolete and I can't even begin to tell you how these last few posts hit me.


I think you mentioned that you've been together for 12 years. That's wonderful! It's great that you want to continue a physical relationship. Can you reconcile yourself to moving to the next level in the marriage where it's simply nice to have the stability, and a great friend whom you happen to love? This is the level that those who stay married for 50 years, find the most satisfaction. Friendship.

WOW, you are amazing... I am not even just saying that, you are so right in so many ways. I said I wouldn't post on my own thread anymore but I had to because you gave me so much to think about. I now know where I stand (being a mom) and now I am really afraid of the next step of marriage because I am a sexual being a creature of the physical plane (which you pointed out sex drive... mine is obviously higher and more intense). I have a good life with him and after my daughter our sex life actually improved since the first years of marriage where shabby... now I am pregnant and its slowed down again but after I am staying optimistic things will get better after as before. I made personal adjustments to give him freedom and liberty to do as he wishes but when I am ready again I am worried things won't get better. How do some women accept not having their physical needs met in a marriage when they evolve to the next stage? What happens when I hit my peak? My sister said it was awful - that's all she could think about and it sounds very intimidating. I am sorry if it sounds like a silly question :p but I am 26 (I am sure this all comes with maturity) and I am inexperienced with men (I have only a few bf's prior to sexual but not home run (if you can call them even relationships) and had one partner (him)). I love him and enjoy him around so obviously I want to stay in the marriage... that means I have to make these changes within myself and make some serious realizations of facts here. I guess I am just trying to find a way to cope now.

Thank you.

"now sex is obsolete"
Well you did not mention that. This is an issue, because although sex is obsolete, I am assuming the porn is not. This is where it becomes a problem. An addiction if you will.

I think counseling will be good for you two. Go as a couple and as individuals. It will allow you two to communication with each other, but remember we are individuals even though we are in a marriage. You are not him and he is not you.

I have been with my wife for 20 years and we have both admitted to each other that we have our emotional secrets and we respect that. I do not pry into hers and she does not pry into mine.

"How do some women accept not having their physical needs met in a marriage when they evolve to the next stage? There are many toys now on the market. If he is giving you the emotion part, you can used these as an aid.

What happens when I hit my peak? My sister said it was awful - thats all she could think about and it sounds very intimidating.This is where women realize what men go through their whole lives. We always are thinking about sex and who we can have it with.. even if we are in a loving relationship. We could even be with a supermodel and will think about it.

You sound like a great and understanding lady. I see you started quite young. I am assuming he was as well and did not have tomany partners. I wish you lluck with your family.

Whether we like to admit it or not, the male brain is wired differently than the female brain. Sex and sexual stimuli fall within this category.
Men are "hard wired" to seek out many different females for sex. This drive is useful as it creates the best/most opportunities for offspring (whether having children is desired or not, the brain says have sex. Make babies. Procreate. Pass long your DNA). Women on the other hand are wired to find a man who will provide for and protect the family unit, so we expect fidelity.

Just speaking as a biologist, since that is the topic, and to set the record straight:
There's no scientific evidence to support what is in this paragraph.

It's simply wrong. Fidelity is not more natural for one sex than the other. In a nutshell, men and women are not fundamentally different that way. Among animals generally, females have just as good reason to hedge their bets and mate with multiple partners as males do. (That is, to put it in ibrat's terms, "whether we like to admit it or not, women are hard wired to seek out many different males for sex.") In some situations, females have more reason than their partners. It's untrue that infidelity only benefits males. Not only does theory say that females benefit from mating with multiple partners, but research in animals shows that infidelity by both males and females in mated pairs is commonplace. (Of course, in animals it's not called "infidelity." Who ever heard of an unfaithful fish?)

That said, large numbers of both men and women are faithful throughout life because they choose to be. Just as we can choose to be civilized in other ways, we can choose fidelity if we want.

Similarly, the family--the bond between people in the service of raising children--benefits men as well as women. Just like women, men have a biological interest in seeing their children reach adulthood. Anything dads can do to help their children become healthy attractive mates helps dads pass on their own DNA.

One thing ibrat hinted at is true. It IS true that females' limited number of eggs (compared to sperm) and the 9 months of pregnancy limits the number of babies born to any cohort of males. It's a zero sum game. That means if one guy has more than his share of children by multiple women, some other guys aren't going to have any kids at all. That's the rarely discussed, dark underbelly of multiple partners.

(It's also the reason that in polygamous societies men so often marry 12 year olds. The men quickly run out of adult women and LARGE numbers of men don't get to have wives and kids at all.) Even in our society, lots of men don't pass on their genes because other men have kids by two or three different women, or because we lock the men up on some pretext, or send them into dangerous jobs where they are killed or badly hurt.

Women sometimes choose not to have kids, or they may be infertile, but, unlike men, they virtually never have to worry about finding a mate to have kids with. They just have to worry about finding a good one.

Monogamy is a covenant among men that says one per customer, so that every man gets a chance to breed. When men cheat, they aren't just cheating their wives, they are cheating other men.

So back to Mr. Xoxaprilwine...

[QUOTE=asking;1390669]Just speaking as a biologist, since that is the topic, and to set the record straight:
There's no scientific evidence to support what is in this paragraph.
It's simply wrong. Fidelity is not more natural for one sex than the other.


I certainly didn't mean to imply that fidelity, or lack thereof, benefits one sex more than the other. My intention was merely to state that the sexes drive for mating is for different reasons.
I apologize for the confusion.

Pam

I certainly didn't mean to imply that fidelity, or lack thereof, benefits one sex more than the other. My intention was merely to state that the sexes drive for mating is for different reasons.
I apologize for the confusion.

Pam

Hi Pam, Sorry for coming down like a ton of bricks. It's a pet peeve of mine that so many people invoke biology to justify inequities, whether it's slavery or the unsupported idea that women lag behind men intellectually. I thought you were arguing that it's natural for men to want multiple partners and unnatural for women to want that.

Lots of people believe that and I wanted to address that. But I should have said it in some other context so it wouldn't seem like everything I said was specifically directed at you. It's been simmering. Apologies back!

I wish I had a magic cure for problems that arise in marriages. The problem with having a cure is that no one cure would be able to fix all the issues. It sometimes seems that we finally resolve one problem, when another comes our way.
I think the most successful marriages are between friends. True friends. We hold the hand of our friends during bad spells in their life, telling them that we're always there for them, it will get better, just hang in there. We stick up for them when we know they're wrong, tell them they're an idiot when they need to hear that, too. But we always remember that they're our friends and we teat them a such.
For some reason, we don't treat our marriages as long-term friendships, but as living with a person who is supposed to make us happy. It isn't always possible to make someone happy, or to keep them happy if you do achieve that goal.
Only you can make you happy. I know it's cliché, but it's true.

I would suggest that you speak to your OB Doctor at your next visit. They are not counselors per se, but I've never met a OB/GYN doctor who did have information on sex and relationships.
Maybe there really is a pshycial problem with hubby. Does he take any medications that might be lowering his sex drive? Is there any medical conditions that he may be prone to that might be weighing on his mind? Prostate issues come to mind, but I'm certain that isn't the only possibility.
Also, your doc can help you with information to help you deal with the lack of sex. Please talk to the OB ( or any other professional that you trust) before you take any steps that may be more harmful, on this issue.
Talking about it helps tremendously. Information gained from those chats can be like a light bulb going off. A virtual DUH! Moment.

I wish I had a magic cure for problems that arise in marriages. The problem with having a cure is that no one cure would be able to fix all the issues. It sometimes seems that we finally resolve one problem, when another comes our way.
I think the most successful marriages are between friends. True friends. We hold the the hand of our friends during bad spells in their life, telling them that we're always there for them, it will get better, just hang in there. We stick up for them when we know they're wrong, tell them they're an idiot when they need to hear that, too. But we always remember that they're our friends and we teat them a such.
For some reason, we don't treat our marriages as long-term friendships, but as living with a person who is supposed to make us happy. It isn't always possible to make someone happy, or to keep them happy if you do achieve that goal.
Only you can make you happy. I know it's cliche, but it's true.

I would suggest that you speak to your OB Doctor at your next visit. They are not counselors per se, but I've never met a OB/GYN doctor who did have information on sex and relationships.
Maybe there really is a pshycial problem with hubby. Does he take any medications that might be lowering his sex drive? Is there any medical conditions that he may be prone to that might be weighing on his mind? Prostate issues come to mind, but I'm certain that isn't the only possibility.
Also, your doc can help you with information to help you deal with the lack of sex. Please talk to the OB ( or any other professional that you trust) before you take any steps that may be more harmful, on this issue.
Talking about it helps tremendously. Information gained from those chats can be like a light bulb going off. A virtual DUH! moment.

No, no medication, no medical condition, healthy 27 year old guy... has a low sex drive because of porn. He has admitted it was a problem because he agrees that when he watches porn... he doesn't watch it just to watch it for enjoyment/entertainment but that he masturbates to it every time... this is addictive to the counselor. He would rather have sex alone (I think) and this puts the competition between the two drives and the type of addition. I know this is not a cause... this is a symptom of a cause and we needed to work on the intimicy and emotional stuff because when we do make love "something doesn't feel right" and "something is missing" for me... I don't feel he is all there and I can't remember the last time he made love to me with his eyes fully on me... I just have this feeling that I don't have his emotional commitment. I have started to "get turned off" as a result and though I am complaining of 3 months of no sex... I sometimes think I just don't want sex with him anymore because I am tired of trying to initiate and get shut down. So I have made changes for me since evidently its more painful for me then it is him and that is a fact. I wouldn't be here telling you the details of my sex life... it just use to be so DAMN good... but I am sick of being a servant in bed... its not a two way thing... maybe I am contributing now, I have given up and honestly, I am really turned off when with him... I know he's not all there. Everything else is great though... it bugs me. I am staying optimistic that once this baby is here it will get better and if not... back to further supportive efforts... if sex life is good then I will have no issues... I have taken care of the hiding part by subscribing and I can always hit him up with "big d*** dvd's" and see how he likes it hehe... that was immature... I know :). I tried talking... he gets really heated and sometimes physical... I am pregnant so not a good idea right now. But I will definitely take your advice with the OB Doctor.

Thanks for everyone's help.

April,

Sorry I couldn't be more help. Sounds like you have a pretty good understanding of what's happening, though. Good luck to you :)

ANd thatnks for the answers you gave to my post. Too.:)

Have a nice Holiday with your family, and if I don't chat with you again, have a Merry Christmas too.

Pam

April,

Sorry I couldn't be more help. Sounds like you have a pretty good understanding of what's happening, though. Good luck to you :)

ANd thatnks for the answers you gave to my post. too.:)

Have a nice Holiday with your family, and if I don't chat with you again, have a Merry Christmas too.

Pam

Awww, ibrat you and everyone gave me great advice... I have been trying to understand the situation and its great to have so many different answers to give me an optical zoom on it :).

I was not finished with your post... wasn't sure if you wanted to private message the rest... but don't hesitate to call me out on anything because I love talking about those things.

Thank you for your thoughts of me and my family. And from my family to yours I also wish you a Merry Christmas & Happy New Year... hope we will be in touch soon :).

Best wishes,

April

LOL... I just don't want to keep talking if you've had enough. Wear out my welcome, so to speak. Your head has GOT to be spinning with all the advise and comments.

You're welcome to email me anytime if you want to speak privately, or just post to this question, and I'll get notice.

Pam
[email protected]

Its not the porn I'm guessing it's the fact that he hides it maby he just feels weird that you know so he just wants to hide it or maby he doesn't want to hurt you by making you think your not good enough for him you should just talk to him and have a open discussion! :)