How many people are like King Herod was.
He had heard about Jesus and His miracles but came to the wrong conclusion.
How many do you speculated are like that?
Here is the gospel reading from the New Jerusalem Bible.
Matthew 1: 1. At that time Herod the tetrarch heard about the reputation of Jesus 2. and said to his court, "This is John the Baptist himself; he has risen from the dead, and that is why miraculous powers are at work in him."
3. Now it was Herod who had arrested John, chained him up and put him in prison because of Herodias, his brother Philip's wife.
4. For John had told him, "It is against the Law for you to have her."
5. He had wanted to kill him but was afraid of the people, who regarded John as a prophet.
6. Then, during the celebrations for Herod's birthday, the daughter of Herodias danced before the company and so delighted Herod
7. that he promised on oath to give her anything she asked.
8. Prompted by her mother she said, "Give me John the Baptist's head, here, on a dish."
9. The king was distressed but, thinking of the oaths he had sworn and of his guests, he ordered it to be given her,
10. And sent and had John beheaded in the prison.
11. The head was brought in on a dish and given to the girl, who took it to her mother.
12. John's disciples came and took the body and buried it; then they went off to tell Jesus.
:) Peace and kindness,:)
Fred (arcura)

How many people are like King Herod was. He had heard about Jesus and His miracles but came to the wrong conclusion.

What WRONG conclusion, Fred ? That is what you BELIEVE, Fred. Can you PROVE is was a WRONG conclusion, Fred ?

:)

·

Hey arcura, how's it goin',
I think that Herod did everything from fear, he was afraid of the people, afraid of Herodias, afraid of his guests, probably a man that had little self confidence, got to the position of power by default,e.g.. Born into it.
Probably had a easy life, able to have whatever he wanted as a child, a father who was a tyrant and murderer, who probably had many affairs.
He probably grew up with no real role model as such, even though he was taught the scriptures by his teachers.
He would have known about the Magi, looking for the Saviour of Israel.
He knew John was a righteous man who taught that the Kingdom of God was near.
He may have known his scripture stories, but had little or no understanding of them.
I surmise that as soon as he was old enough, he stopped taking lessons at all.
Perhaps he was afraid that God was bringing about a change in the kingdom and Jesus was the one that was risen from the dead, the one that he had learnt about in his scripture class, the one that would save Israel.
If that was the case, he would soon be out of a job.
Whatever it was that led him to that conclusion, it was instigated by fear.
How many people make the same mistakes today, that come to a conclusion based on fear.
If you come to a conclusion about Jesus, based on fear, then you've got the wrong gospel.
When we come to believe in Jesus, it is based on love and trust.
So, I don't know how many people would come to faith, based on fear, but I am sure of this, any that hold that view, will never know the true Jesus.
May the ministry of the Holy Spirit lead you into all Truth.

Hi Fred,

I think the Christianity Board is a good place to post this set of Bible verses as well as all the Bible verses you love to post.

Anyway, if the Romans didn't want to get involved in the Jewish spiritual upheaval of the time, and there were many itinerant preaching rabbis, that's good enough for me. ;)

I think Herod, like myself, gets offended for being called out on bad behavior.

No one likes to be told what is right and wrong. A lot think, I'll just follow the golden rule or I'll be as good as I can be. Then to be called out like that, by John, some wild rabble rouser telling everyone to repent [ change their ways ], in public! I can imagine what the audience was saying, "Man, what are you going to do?"" Are you just going to let him get away with that?" :eek:


But I guess, God says that to all of us. Then he says trust in me:D

Credendovidis,
I'm sure that you know that the only "proof" I have comes from what the bible says.
I believe the bible, you don't, so there we stand; friends with different points of view on spirituality and the bible.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura).

I'm sure that you know that the only "proof" I have comes from what the bible says. I believe the bible, you don't, so there we stand; friends with different points of view on spirituality and the bible.
I know Fred. That is why I asked you : What WRONG (King Herod's) conclusion, Fred ?
You BELIEVE that his decision was WRONG. But I like you to support WHY his decision was WRONG !
Can you PROVE is was a WRONG conclusion, Fred ? Or do you BELIEVE it was a WRONG decision ?

Yes, we are friends with different points of view on spirituality and the bible.
But that does not allow either you or me to make wild statements, Fred.
Either you have to say that you BELIEVE the King's decision was wrong, or you have to PROVE it was wrong!

:)

·

Yes Fred most attack Christians more out of fear, they often know Or perhaps "believe" in their hearts the real truth but because of fear or because of some event in their life they turn to attacking that faith in an attempt to justify their behaviors. So as in Harolds case he was in fear of all the events to come, If he had not actually "beleived" in the teachings he would have never attacked them.

... as in Harolds case he was in fear of all the events to come ...
So is that what you BELIEVE, Chuck?

:rolleyes:

·

Herod was obviously wrong. John Baptist was not Jesus. Jesus was not John Baptist risen from the dead. Herod had his own part in the crucifixion of Jesus, who only died once. Use your head, Cred.

Herod was obviously wrong.
You BELIEVE he was wrong. Nothing in religion is obvious...


John Baptist was not Jesus. Jesus was not John Baptist risen from the dead.
Both John the Baptist and Jesus are mythical figures. There is no objective supported evidence that they were more than that, although many people BELIEVE that !


Use your head, Cred.
I do Galv. But when will you ?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

·

Chuck,

You like to speak for other people, especially non-believers, but you can't do that! You are just *making stuff up*.

Speak for yourself, man!

Credendovidis,
Herod was wrong ins assuming that Jesus was John the Baptist brought back to life.
He was afraid of John while he was alive and probably mire so as a person brought back life.
So the bible tells us and I do believe that, OK?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fr_Chuck,
Hi Bishop,
I do agree with your post.
Free and lack of good information can cause many a person to assume wrongly.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

So the bible tells us and I do believe that, OK?
Yes, you believe that, Fred !

:)
·

Credendovidis,
Yup, John, you believe as you do and I believe as I do.
It looks like everyone does that.
I sometimes wonder if there are any animals that have a belief ability similar to what we humans have.
What do you think about that?
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

In Mathew 16 there were many opinions, perhaps Herod heard some of these rumours.
I do have one question for chuck, who was Harold, Herod's long lost brother? :)

13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
14They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."

Hardness of heart causes people to reject Who Jesus is. Having Him point out sin causes some to hate Him.

Remember, Jesus did not come to bring peace luke 12. (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=12&version=51&context=chapter)

Matthew 21:44
Anyone who stumbles over that stone will be broken to pieces, and it will crush anyone it falls on.

Peter Wilson,
Herod The Great was in power when Jesus was born.
His son, Herod II, was in power when Jesus began his ministry.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

I sometimes wonder if there are any animals that have a belief ability similar to what we humans have.
Dear Fred

To believe anything one requires first self-awareness.
To require self-awareness you require sufficient brain power.
The limits to (religious) belief are therefore set : too little brain power and you can't believe anything.
Too much brain power and you do not require (religious) beliefs anymore to copy with life.

You might find some belief abillity in higher primates, but nothing at all will ever be similar to what humans have. Almost all animals will fall below the lower cut-off line allowing (religious) beliefs.

:)

·

Peter Wilson,
Herod The Great was in power when Jesus was born.
His son, Herod II, was in power when Jesus began his ministry.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)



Thanks Fred I know, Herod Antipas tetrarch of Galilee and Perea. I was referring to Chucks spelling error. :)


So as in Harolds case he was in fear of all the events to come, If he had not actually "beleived" in the teachings he would have never attacked them.

Yes, you believe that, Fred !

:)
·Cred does not follow Christians around the board, and he never repeats the same thing on every board over and over and over and over and over and over... :p

Credendovidis,
Thanks for telling be what you believe about that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

tsila1777,
Credendovidis is Credendovidis, that is the way he is and has been for as long as I have known him. That is several years in several boards.
He believes as he believes and that us his right to do so.
His telling others what they believe (whether true or not) all of those years is annoying to some people and it was for me for a long time.
Now I just laugh at his belies obsession and agree to him with this, "Yup I believe that and you believe as you do"
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

Dear Arcura,

Cred does not annoy me. It did not take me long to catch on to his stratagem.;)

He said he did not follow Christians around from board to board to try to ‘make us climb the walls’; my post was just a repartee for his distraction.

He does not bother me at all, although he wishes so much that he could. I, too, have had a few belly laughs at his expense.

I do wish he would open his eyes, mind, and heart. God loves Cred and wants to set him free. If only Cred would believe the truth.

I also wish he would get some new vocabulary words so that he could use some variety in his posts. These boards, as I understand them, are for questions and answers.

May God grant many blessings upon you, dear one. Peace and love in Christ. I hope that I have never said anything to offend you, if so; I do apologize. I can only state my beliefs, and as I am adamant about them, I sometimes get overly zealous when I am typing. Forgive me if I have said anything that even ever so slightly hurt you.

I do understand that you also are just as adamant. We agree to disagree.:)

tsila1777,
You have not ever posted anything that hurt me in any way.
I'm a believer who believes that others have the right to believe as they wish and to freely discuss that belief with others.
I do not try to change others beliefs rather I try to help them understand why I believe as I do.
Understanding leads to wisdom.
Regarding Cred, I think that at one time he was a believer in Christianity but fell in love with science which did to him as it did to many.
That is change one belief for another.
I have no poof of that. It is just something I think and feel.
I pray much for him and others who claim to be atheists or agnostics hoping that the Holy Spirit will bring them to a firm belief in God and Jesus before it is too late for their souls.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

Fred,
Thank you. I also hope Cred can see the truth before it is too late.

Love in Christ,
T

Hardness of heart causes people to reject Who Jesus is. Having Him point out sin causes some to hate Him.

Remember, Jesus did not come to bring peace luke 12. (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=12&version=51&context=chapter)

Matthew 21:44
Anyone who stumbles over that stone will be broken to pieces, and it will crush anyone it falls on.


Greenie for you :D excellent

inthebox
Jesus also came to bring salvation.
To me that is number one.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

Regarding Cred, I think that at one time he was a believer in Christianity but fell in love with science
No Fred. I am NOT "in love" with science. You know quite well that I originally am from Jewish stock, but due to the attitude of the Germans in the 1930's and 40's that I grew up in a Protestant family.
And that I at the tender age of 12 rejected religion as a reality and became a Secular Humanist.
Why do you suggest that you do not know that ? You know that very well, Fred! I have always been open to that, and discussed this anywhere, including the boards we both jointly attended in the past

:rolleyes:

·

Credendovidis ,
No Thanks for the explanation.
No, I did not know that whole story.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[quote=Fr_Chuck] Yes Fred most attack Christians more out of fear, they often know Or perhaps "believe" in their hearts the real truth but because of fear or because of some event in their life they turn to attacking that faith in an attempt to justify their behaviors. So as in Harold’s case he was in fear of all the events to come, If he had not actually "believed" in the teachings he would have never attacked them.[/quote

Yes, I believe they are so adamant in their persecutions because they know we are right in our beliefs, and they really want what we have, and are hoping we can convince them to repent and call on God. I pray that we can.


He told us in the world we would have persecutions, but to be of good cheer, for He has overcome the world. Therefore, in a way, Cred (and the others) are proving what Cred is asking us to prove. Cred is our proof….:cool:





Blessings to you in Christ Jesus, Who takes away the sins of the whole world and brings salvation to those who will believe and call on His Name.

....Therefore, in a way, Cred (and the others) are proving what Cred is asking us to prove. Cred is our proof…
What a nonsensical rubbish ! Just make sure you stay in Georgia or you will be admitted...

:D :rolleyes: :p ;) :D

·

Yes, I believe they are so adamant in their persecutions because they know we are right in our beliefs, and they really want what we have, and are hoping we can convince them to repent and call on God. I pray that we can.


He told us in the world we would have persecutions, but to be of good cheer, for He has overcome the world. Therefore, in a way, Cred (and the others) are proving what Cred is asking us to prove. Cred is our proof….

The above quote is just asking for a fight, you do realize that, don't you?

Not everyone who believes in God believes the same way you do. Not everyone feels the need to "spread the word" of the bible and try to save others souls. I do believe, but not in a man written book, or a man made religion, just in God, that's enough for me.

You say that deep down atheists truly believe, that they are jealous of our faith? Then why wouldn't they believe, there is no logical reason, is there?

Have you never had a moment of doubt that God exists, one small twinge of doubt? I have, I will admit that, but I choose to believe, that choice is mine and mine alone, and I will not force it on anyone else.

There is spreading the word and there is forcing the word, there is a big difference. If you believe in the bible than you should realize that nowhere does it say go forth and force the word on others.

I hope that you can read this with an open mind. It does sound a bit harsh, for that I do apologize, sometimes harshness is needed to get your point across.

I respect your beliefs, now you have to respect others, that's the only way that an open honest discussion will happen.

Having said that, if you cannot respect others rights to defend their beliefs then stick to the Christianity boards where you will get to talk with others of your faith, about your faith.

Peace. :)

tsila1777
Excellent post.
Cred called it rubbish, but it is not. You will often see him say nonsense and rubbish to truths which people publish.
Cred will never admit that he would like to convert everyone to believe has he does.
I've been posting on boards with him on it for years so I know from his many posts and way of posting that that is true.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Cred ... You will often see him say nonsense and rubbish to truths which people publish.
And I wonder why that post with also "nonsense and rubbish" is NOT removed by the powers that be. The rules of - and the judging on - this board seems to become more "flexible" every day towards religious intolerance...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

·

Credendovidis
I believe that cred believes that everyone believes in something.
So what.
Big deal.

Credendovidis I believe that cred believes that everyone believes in something. So what. Big deal.
Fred : that your post #35 still appears on this board PROVES that Admin and/or Chuck are measuring with their own religious filled bushels.
If any post that states "nonsense and rubbish" is deleted, why than is a post that states "You will often see him say nonsense and rubbish to truths which people publish" not deleted ?
That's an unfair and dishonest approach !

Dear Fred : note that I have no problems at all with your views. I only comment on your posts, and I am sure you do not expect me to do otherwise !

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

·

Cred,
I see what I see and you have posted "nonsense and rubbish".
Obviously it was not deleted.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

What is the "New Jerusalem Bible"? How many different versions are there ? Which one is the absolute truth and completely historically correct??

Handyman2007
The New Jerusalem Bible has been around for several years.
There is no version of the bible that everyone will agree is the best, most accurate, most error free,etc.
But a great many of the most recognized scholars say that The New American Standard, The Revised Standard and the New Jerusalem Bible version are the best for accuracey in translation.
I have 8 different version and those are the one I use mostly.
I like the New Jerusalem very much because it is so easy to read and a very good summary and explanation is before each book in the bible.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Cred is clearly an angry and bitter moron---plain and simple. And what is so funny, he wants to be a moron and works hard at it, thinking himself to be cleaver when the opposite is so obvious to everyone except him. And I not only believe it, I think you have proved it yourself in your own rantings that make absolutely no sense.

Some will accuse me of name-calling, but when are believers (Christians) going to stop laying down with a false sense of humility and let people like Cred continue with his attacks!

Teresa51.
Cred is not a moron. He is a very intelligent person; highly educated and knowledgeable.
He is an atheist and believes in nothing religious.
He is married to a Catholic woman.
Like all atheists he is spiritually bankrupt and needs much prayer to help him spiritually.
I pray for him and all here every day.
As a Christian I suggest that you do the same.
He is a lost sheep that Jesus tells us should be found.
There would be great joy in heaven if he and others lost are found and all Christians should also work to have reason to experience such joy.
I think that if you ponder that somewhat you will agree.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

I pray for him and all here every day. As a Christian I suggest that you do the same.
Thank you Fred. That's the Fred I know and appreciate - though we differ religiously !
Peace and kindness to you too !

:)

================================================== =============


Cred is clearly an angry and bitter moron
Moron? Just a matter of opinion. Angry and bitter? Not at all ! I enjoy life to the fullest. All I dislike is the phariseen and haughty attitude of so many Christians on this board, you included now.


... in your own rantings that make absolutely no sense.
To you maybe. So now you blame me for your own lack of intelligence and understanding?


... when are believers (Christians) .... Christians are believers. Fortunately not all believers are Christians. The world would be hell if that happened!


... when are believers (Christians) going to stop laying down with a false sense of humility and let people like Cred continue with his attacks!
Stripped of the nonsense : "when are believers (Christians) .... let people like Cred continue with his attacks!"
Well : I hope very long. Only : I do not attack Christians at all. I have great respect for real Christians who are not only Christian in word, but also in deed!! Unfortunately this board is overloaded with "Christians of the word only". Fanatics who insist that what they BELIEVE is the one and only "truth". Like the group of fanatic creationists and christian fundamentalists. But also your reaction gives reason to frown. A newcomer to the board, who never has directly communicated with me before , posting this type of frustrated drivvel in this topic.

I always have stated that - if it is to me to decide - anyone may believe whatever suits him or her. That is my tolerance. I am more than happy to hear opposition to my ideas. Unfortunately you have other ideas : you would like to see either "the word" be forced through my throat, or me being driven off this board on top of a virtual "dung car" covered with pitch and feathers.
How intolerant ! How unchristian!! You clearly have not yet understood the New Testament!!

What I have seen from you is this : a religious closedminded fanatic who would love to see anyone opposing her own religious ideas being removed from here. But... this board is called " Religious Discussions Board" and not the "Christianity Board".
Within the board rules I may participate with my views just as well as you may.
And if you have a problem with your own intolerant behavior, may be it is not me who should be removed.

My advice to you : keep with the "dog posts". That seems to be where your ideas are most valuable!

:D :rolleyes: :p ;) :D

Cred, I have never suggested nor has the thought ever crossed my mind that you should be removed from this board.

I think your heralded, quite convincingly, my point on more than 1 occasion in your posting above. No further comment from me is necessary.

arcura: I believe you may have mischaracterized Cred as a "lost sheep". I see him as the "goat" or "wolf" sent for harm, not as a follower/sheep that has taken a wayward step. Although you did not say so, perhaps you are suggesting that Cred is a 'sheep" b/c he really doesnt believe most of the stuff he says anyway and all his postings are his way of hoping to provoke someone enough to provoke HIM to challenge his own thinking. I don't know that of course, but I get the sense that that may be the case here.

I personally believe that there is no such thing as a true atheist---that in his/her heart-of-hearts, he (an "atheist") knows there is a God, or at least has a sense that there is something greater than he is. I believe we are all "wired" that way.

One aspect of Jesus is that He is a shepard, yes, but I don't want us to forget that Jesus is described also as being a Warrior, and that being a shepard means carrying a big stick, not only to guide, but to also beat off the wolves or other animals from destroying/stealing his flock (an offensive action, and not defensive).

No further comments from me on this matter.

First of all to Arcura : Dear Fred : my apologies, but I can not allow Teresa51 to get away with that. So here is my reply to her. If she keeps to her word that "No further comment from me is necessary" than I will not react on this any further neither.
Also my apologies for the long post, but I had to be precise in my reactions.

And now to Teresa51 :

Cred, I have never suggested nor has the thought ever crossed my mind that you should be removed from this board. Everybody can see that you caled me "an angry and bitter moron---plain and simple".
Also that (acc. to you) "I want to be a moron".
And that you believe that "I have proved (that) myself in my own rantings that make absolutely no sense".
Later you also queried why "people like Cred continue with (his) attacks"?

You never communicated with me before, and neither provided any support for your wild claims and insults.
Your sentence "but when are believers (Christians) going to stop laying down with a false sense of humility and let people like Cred continue with his attacks!" can only be taken as incitement to others to attack me and/or force me off the board.
So don't lie that you never suggested that. You even tried to incite others in following your "quest".
What a phony and failed "Christian" you are !!! One that is "lying for God" ...

I do not even want to query why board management did not remove your post for rudeness, insulting, and unbecoming comments - although your post was entirely against the board rules. I suppose that I being a Secular Humanist (SH) and you claiming to be a "christian" has something to do with that !


I think your heralded, quite convincingly, my point on more than 1 occassion in your posting above. No further comment from me is necessary.
In my reaction I clearly show you for what you are : a religious closed-minded fanatic who would love to see anyone opposing her own religious ideas being removed from here.
And I concluded that you should keep with the "dog posts". As that seems to be where your ideas are most valuable! But now I read your reaction here, all I can think is "poor dogs"...


(To Fred) : I believe you may have mischaracterized Cred as a "lost sheep". I see him as the "goat" or "wolf" sent for harm, not as a follower/sheep that has taken a wayward step. Although you did not say so, perhaps you are suggesting that Cred is a 'sheep" b/c he really doesnt believe most of the stuff he says anyway...First of all you have no idea how well Fred and I know each other. Though we have different worldviews we respect each other and each others ideas. But Fred is fully correct : I am an ex-Christian, a "lost sheep". Though I am already more than forty+ years convinced SH / Atheist-Freethinker.

How can you suggest that "he really doesnt believe most of the stuff he says anyway..."
For over ten years on Q&A boards nobody has ever been able to prove such nonsense, simply because I never lie (other than in "social traffic". Simply because lying - as you proved here with yours - ALWAYS will be found out and used against you!


... and all his postings are his way of hoping to provoke someone enough to provoke HIM to challenge his own thinking. I don't know that of course, but I get the sense that that may be the case here.
If you do not know that, than why suggest that ? Just incitement ! Nothing else !


I personally believe that there is no such thing as a true atheist---that in his/her heart-of-hearts, he (an "atheist") knows there is a God, or at least has a sense that there is something greater than he is. I believe we are all "wired" that way.
You may BELIEVE that. No problem. But I can tell you that you are dead-wrong !
First the use of "true" shows your lack of understanding of Atheism. "True" is in this context a rather nonsensical word, indicating unsupported wild claims (almost always religious). No self-respecting Atheist wants to be described with words like "true". All Atheists know that there is no "God", or agree that never ever any proof for "God's" existence was provided.

NO Atheist/SH has a sense that there is something greater than he is, other than other humans.
EVERY Atheist/SH agrees that there is nothing greater than "homo sapiens" as intellectual and moral entity. At least as far as we can know.

My conclusion
Once again you prove with your angry reaction that you are a religious closed-minded fanatic who would love to see anyone opposing her own religious ideas being removed from here. Simply because you know you have no leg to stand on. All you have is belief, though you refuse to accept that fact...

:rolleyes: :) :D :) :rolleyes:

Teresa51,
Cred IS a lost sheep.
I believe that all humans are God's children and that He wants them all to come home to him.
That is why he provided the opportunity for all to be saved through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.
Though some sheep are making goats of themselves that is for God alone to decide on Judgment Day.
So I do believe.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)