Hey folks -- we've been in this house -- our first -- for about a year.

A few times it has leaked in the basement at the foot of the walls -- today it was an inch of water.

No leaking from pipes. No leaking from holes/ cracks in walls. No leaking from windows.

It seems to seep in through the bottom-most concrete blocks.

What should we do? We want to drywall the basement sometime in the future.

These pictures seem to show past water damage at the bottom of the wall.

Mmmm from your other posts, you seem to be having a lot of problems with this house of yours ? Have you learned anything yet from other posts ?

It's a little bit of a fixer, but we've had a couple of surprises along the way. This is one of them.

I read the archives and have *eliminated* some possibilities, but do not have any solutions yet.

First you should look at you gutters and down spouts to insure that they are clean and working. You should have splash blocks at each down spout or better yes pipes to carry water away from the house. Next look at your grading to insure that rain water is running away from the house. You may be surprised how effective these things can be.

If you still have water or dampness in the basement you will have two options.
One, dig up the outside down to the footer level and install drain piping, hopefully draining to daylight.

Two, cut out the perimeter of the basement floor and install drain piping and a sump pump.
If the leaking is confined to a small area you may get away with just installing a sump pump in that area but the correct way would be to put in the drain piping, especially if you plan on finishing off the basement.

antipode12 - You can dig down about 2' and put in what is called a ( FRENCH DRAIN )- you dig out ward from the wall 2' , wide and 2' deep around the outside of the house( You want the water to go to a certain area that is lower then the highest point that you start at you will need about 1/4" to 1/2" fall in the line in every 10'. In the ditch you dig put about 2' of ( pea gravel ) lay and adjust fall in the 3" Black plastic SEWER FIELD LINE. It has holes in it 1/2 way around it .( When you lay it in the Center of the dug out area ( Make sure that the holes are faceing ( UP ). A good exper. Plumber that has done this before can give you a detailed explantion of what has to be done to put this system in.
If this don't work then youy will have to go to another way , Way # 2 - Go to Lowe's, HOME DEPOT < A LUMBER YARD , Ect. And get yourself what is called ( WATER SEAL) you pain it on the concrete blooks ( usealy 2 coats ) But WATER DRY WORKS PRETTY GOOD.
Antipole - what has happened is that the contractor that built the house, DID NOT do what was susposed to do before backfilling around the outside of the basement walls, the way I always done it was to tar the walls on the outside and put a layer of felt then put the 2nd coat of tar over that, it's been several years since I done some and as far as I know the basements are still dre. :: Good luck and GOD BLESS::: F.B.E.

I just want to agree with previous posts: Wall bellow the ground level needs some kind of de-watering system - like suggested French Drain embedded in gravel. In many cases, we also install moisture barrier that is applied directly onto the wall. We never install hose bibs on basement walls. Period. Their presence creates more damage than you can imagine. Keep rain away from that area using gutters and strategically placed downspouts. Remove sprinklers. If you have plants in that area replace them with plants that don't need constant watering. Also, you can pour 24" flat concrete "walkway" around that wall gently sloping away from the house.

It would not be a good idea to cover that wall on the interior unless you are absolutely sure your moisture problem has been eliminated.

I agree with FBE and Milo. Either a french drain,(see image) or a sump pump would seem to be the solution to your problem. Good luck, Tom

OK, so I took your advice, and finally had a chance to assess the perimeter of the house.

The areas of the basement that take water (and have stains on the walls) are dirt outside. They also grade either flat or *toward* the house slightly. BUT, the adjacent yard (which is an undeveloped lot 10 feet away) is graded higher than mine.

(@speedball: my basement -- if it matters -- is a full 7 feet. Does a french drain have to drain below that?)

3 starting points:
A) Gutters: My gutter's leader drains right at the house (no splash block). I could attach an extension to draw it away from the house, but the neighbor's yard and my yard grade *toward* the house. Won't water travel back to the foundation?
Is there an alternative?

B) French drain: I don't really understand this. The water drains through soil to underground drain. Where does the water travel to? Again, my grade is flat-to-slightly-inclined against my house.

C) Re-grading: If I were to build up the grade against the house to create a slope, I'd probably come *very* close to the bottom of the siding. Bugs, termites, etc. an issue?

Thanks for all of your ideas.


EDIT: I took a couple of pics that highlight the grade and the clearance of the foundation wall. Also, you can see the distance to the adjacent yard.

It sounds lik you're getting the run off from the empty lot. Here's a "bare bones" explanation of how french drains are installed. Perhaps a sump pump would do you a better job. Have you water proofed the basement walls? If your grade slopes toward the house the basement's acting like a holding tank.
A sump pump might just be your only answer or perhaps combination of both. But I would start by water proofing the basement walls and floor if necessary and grading away from the house would certainly help.
Good luck, Tom



Good drainage is one of the most important ways to ensure that a home you construct stays dry and free of mold. Without proper drainage systems, groundwater can collect in the basement and lead to wood rot and mold—something you don't want to deal with later down the road. HGTVpro.com shows you how to install a French drain to eliminate water problems before they arise.

French Drain Systems
The most reliable way to eliminate undesirable, freestanding water is to build a French drain system with slotted pipes, filter fabric and gravel. The outdated way to install French drain pipes doesn't require the gravel and the fabric. But without the gravel and the fabric, the French drain design can clog up with sand and soil over time.

The best way to build a French drain is to use perforated drainage pipes, which allow water to enter or exit through small openings along the pipe. The perforations can be circles or slots. But slotted pipes are better in French drain installations because they tend to reduce the amount of fine soil particles that get into the pipe.

How To Do It

Dig a trench along the outside of your footing. The trench should be at least 2 feet wide, and can be as deep as 6 feet for a basement or as shallow as 2 feet for a slab-on-grade home.

Lay the pipe on the virgin soil. It is very important that the pipe always be sloped from a higher starting point to an ending point of lower elevation, so gravity can force the water out. The grade should always slope away from the home to ensure that the water is directed away from the walls of the home.

Cover the pipe with at least 12 inches of washed gravel.

Lay filter fabric over the gravel to prevent any soil from clogging the pipe.

Back fill the foundation with topsoil back to its original grade height.

Finally, plant your grass and you're done.

Thanks -- that's a lot of good info.

My one question is what is the terminus for the french drain? If I bury it 2' deep, where does the water go?

Antipode12 - The question you just asked above this post, (ANSWER)- you need to get a little help on this project by a Expen. PLUMBER with this type of problem. HE should have a ( TRANSIT LEVEL<THAT HE CAN SHOOT THE GRADE OF THE AREA IN QUESTION< AND, Find the spot/s that would best for the water to come out the pipe of the french drain. That is going to be the final decision on the whole system, this will need to be done to find out , Also who owns the property next door that is vacant a and slopes and drains right against your house, You can talk to them about doing something about the problem or if they won't then all you have to do is write a letter to them and so much time to do it and then when they don't just go down to city hall and file a complaint. By law ,every where I have done construction , it has been the property owners next door to solve that problem, at their cost ,not yours, you might even want to talk to a lawyer about this . You may even be surprised about your leadle rights , Im going to try to get a member on here to address it, she is just in the right line of work and is from NY I think
Good Luck AND GOD BLESS AND DO KEEP IN TOUCH WITH US ON THIS< SO THAT WE CAN ALL LEARN FROM IT AND KNOW BETTER HOW TO ANSWER A SIMLER QUESTION LATTER ::: F.B.E.

I'd strongly suggest you go with an internal perimeter drainage system. A french drain relies on gravity to divert the water away from foundations, or it needs to be hooked to a sump pump.

And then, french tiles clog with debris and mud, the filter fabric do too. External waterproofing is not ever-lasting and it is not something you can maintain or service. You will eventually run into the same problem years from now.
And there is the hassle and mess of ruining your yard to dig out your foundations.

A internal perimeter drainage system running along your basement walls and diverting the water to a sump pump is your best bet. The installation is much less complicated and compared to digging out your foundation. And those systems can be easily maintained and serviced as needed without having to dig anything else, ever.

Look for a reputable contractor and a decent reliable interior drainage system. The type or warranty offered by the manufacturer on the product and the contractor on the service, should be your main indicator of the system's reliability.

Here's some info on the subject:
How to Waterproof your Basement (http://www.ronhazelton.com/projects/waterproofing-your-basement.htm)

Thanks a ton.

I'm sure a plumber (or any other professional) would help, but I need to try to solve this myself first. I have the time to do the work. I just need to figure out the answer.

In the meantime, I'm going to fill the grade with soil to try to create a downslope.

Then, I'm going to try a simple surface french drain. It won't go very far (5 feet) but I'm hoping it will diffuse the water enough.

Has anyone simply tried concrete tile to redirect water?

Cy, thanks for the response.

This seems like a LOT of work to solve the *symptom*, though. Am I wrong? The basement still gets water, but now it is pumped out?

I'm trying to avoid the water coming in in the first place. That seems like a more permanent solution.

Like I said... french drains will too eventually need maintenance. It is not even a matter of if your basement will ever have any water coming in again, but when.
Basements are also prone to water "accidents" such as bursting washing machine hoses, corroded water heaters, condensation around pipes and ducts, pipe leaks... The kind of very common problem that can never be addressed by a french drain.

Antipode - Uselly ,concrete tile dot have the openings in it like the type we have described, also clay type tile doesent either , SORRY , But a short one to do a test with might give you a good idea as to what will help . As to what the gentleman stated above ,I know some that has been in the ground for several years and the french drain is still woorking fine, If the system is put in right , its going to work fine for years to ncome. :: F.B.E.

Also who owns the property next door that is vacant a nd slopes and drains right against your house, ,You can talk to them about doing something about the problem or if they wont then all you have to do is write a letter to them and so much time to do it and then when they dont just go down to city hall and file a complaint. By law ,every where i have done construction , it has been the property owners next door to solve that problem,,at their cost ,not yours, you might even want to talk to a lawyer about this . you may even be surprized about your leadle rights , Im going to try to get a member on here to adress it, she is just in the right line of work and is from NY i think
Good Luck AND GOD BLESS AND DO KEEP IN TOUCH WITH US ON THIS< SO THAT WE CAN ALL LEARN FROM IT AND KNOW BETTER HOW TO ANSWER A SIMLER QUESTION LATTER ::: F.B.E.



I don't see the Town/City acting on this UNLESS there has been a change in the property next door which you can prove is causing this problem.

For example, they have put in 12" of fill and now you have flooding. If this is a long-standing problem (and it appears it might be because there is staining) and there have been no changes and the Town/City in most cases will do nothing.

If the old staining is visible and not concealed you are assumed to have checked these issues before you purchased and are taking possession sort of as is - and that includes the water problem.

The other problem is if this only happens, for example, in times of very heavy rain, uncommon heavy rain, there may not be fault even after the 12" of fill. Some of this cannot be anticipated.

If, of course, the problem was hidden by paneling or something, well, then I would believe the previous owner has some liability here.

(Thanks for the vote of confidence, Flyingblueeagle - you put a smile on my face and made my day!)

Unless your house is very old, it should have a perimeter drain already that drains to a location lower than the basement floor. Usually these are connected to the municipal storm-water system. From the surface down to the pipe should be gravel of uniform size, so that water can flow between the rocks down to the perforated pipe at the bottom before it hits the basement wall. This is your french drain. If the water is seeping in in one place, the gravel may be sealed with a layer of soil (a flower bed, maybe) or an accumulation of leaves, perhaps, allowing surface water to reach the wall. It may be that the drain is plugged downstream. You need to find a convenient place to dig down by the wall and see what is there.

@wwpierre: The house is from 1960, and I see no sign that there are drains or pumps anywhere. Also, we have cesspools, not sewers. Oh, and no gravel around the house.

@Judy: I agree, and we knew of prior issues when we bought. However, we were assured that it hadn't happened in a long while. To be fair, it only happened twice on us in one year. Moderate - heavy rain.

Foundation or footer drains were probably installed when built but long since clog with sand and silt. Sounds like you should plan on cutting out 18 to 24" of basment floor around the walls, installing new drainage pipe and a sump pump. Better now than after you finish off basement.

Although I would rather see the water intercepted before it hits your basement wall, you need to have a place to drain it to that is lower than the elevation of the basement floor. Harold's suggestion of intercepting it inside the wall and running it to a sump is valid as well, especially since this is an intermittent occurrence.

When you get around to finishing the basement walls, make sure you allow for the circulation of air behind the new finish assembly so that the small amount of water that does come in on occasion is allowed to evaporate. Think vertical supports for your drywall and some sort of opening bottom and top. If you seal up the wet area, you will be creating a very good habitat for nasty molds and other undesirable organisms, (sow bugs, carpenter ants).

Excuse the timeliness of my response to your ongoing issue. Looking at your 2 follow up photos of the subject area, I see as follows:

Photo 1: Fence appears to be wet along side of the bottom. Ground visibly slopes towards your house. Downspout. There is a garden hose.

Photo 2: In-ground irrigation box. Hose bib riser. Some strange water connection at the hose bib riser. Wood post on the left appears to have water damage on the bottom of the post.

Both photos give me "wet" feeling. Do you water that area a lot ?

Do this on non-rainy days: Remove hose. Put it in the garage, so nobody will use it. Cap off that hose bib. Thoroughly inspect underground plumbing at and around the irrigation box, hose bib, and that strange connection. If possible, cut off water to it completely. Don't water the plants of grass. . Leave it like that for 2 weeks. I bet you that mysterious basement leak will disappear.

From my experience, I would concentrate on the hose and / or the irrigation box. A small, drip will produce exactly the same basement wetness as you are describing. The drip is probably going on for weeks w/o you noticing it. Ground saturates and water shows in the basement. Even badly attached hose, dripping at the connection while it is being periodically used for washing your driveway or car will eventually show up in your basement.

Irrigation plumbing leaks all the time. Above ground and under ground. Again, a small, persistent drip at a connection will saturate ground over the time showing up in your basement.

Furthermore, that downspout is not installed properly. It has to be lowered, terminating right above the ground. Then, extend it as far away from that area as you can. Best would be to install 4" underground pipe and lead it towards the street / curb. Attach the down spout directly into the discharge pipe. Use Schedule 40 PVC and GLUE all joints. Use 4"PVC-to-Downspout transitional fitting to assure proper fit and minimize spill. Pouring 24" of concrete slab around the building, sloping away, would not be a bad idea at all.

If you really like plants in that area then use drought-resistant species.

When we work on new houses we never install hose bibs or irrigation system by basement areas. They are always a problem. Always. Gutters and Downspouts are a must over basements. French drains are installed regardless as extra precaution. Strips of concrete flat work along side of the basement walls is poured in areas where eves are less then 24".

Good luck...

When you get around to finishing the basement walls, make sure you allow for the circulation of air behind the new finish assembly so that the small amount of water that does come in on occasion is allowed to evaporate. Think vertical supports for your drywall and some sort of opening bottom and top.

Question: doesn't that undermine any fire-blocking built into the framing and wall?

Photo 1: Fence appears to be wet along side of the bottom. Ground visibly slopes towards your house. Downspout. There is a garden hose.

Photo 2: In-ground irrigation box. Hose bib riser. Some strange water connection at the hose bib riser. Wood post on the left appears to have water damage on the bottom of the post.


Both photos give me "wet" feeling. Do you water that area a lot ?
Nope, almost never. It is heavily shaded and hardly ever goes really dry. Not wet, but not dry... moist is a good word.



Do this on non-rainy days: Remove hose. Put it in the garage, so nobody will use it. Cap off that hose bib. Thoroughly inspect underground plumbing at and around the irrigation box, hose bib, and that strange connection. If possible, cut off water to it completely. Don't water the plants of grass. . Leave it like that for 2 weeks. I bet you that mysterious basement leak will disappear. No leaks there. The problem is only on heavy rains.



Irrigation plumbing leaks all the time. Above ground and under ground. Again, a small, persistent drip at a connection will saturate ground over the time showing up in your basement. The irrigation is not running this year -- no water in the pipes -- shut at the main valve.



Furthermore, that downspout is not installed properly. It has to be lowered, terminating right above the ground. Then, extend it as away from that area as you can. Best would be to install 4" underground pipe and lead it towards the street / curb. Attach the down spout directly into the that discharge pipe. Use Schedule 40 PVC and GLUE all joints. Use 4"PVC-to-Downspout transitional fitting to assure proper fit and minimize spill. Pouring 24" of concrete slab around the building, sloping away, would not be a bad idea at all.Yes, that is to be corrected in short order. Without running a 100 ft trench to the street, I will try to drain it about 10 ft away and see if this helps.



Good luck... Thanks

FYI -- I have a few drainage guys coming in for estimates to talk about my options. I'll keep you all posted on what an in-person assessment says.

WWPiere: have you ever heard "mold" ?

Antipode12: That's great. You've done your "homework". So you have pretty much isolated your problem. There is lots of good suggestions in this blog as to how to proceed with installation of de-watering system. Proceed as suggested and you should be fine...

So, I had a pro come out to evaluate.
1) He's going to grade the ground to drain away from the basement.
2) Then, the gutters will connect to a dry well about 15 feet from the basement.

If this doesn't alleviate, he believes the best bet is to dig out the foundation and seal the wall.

I just thought everyone would like to know. Thanks for you ideas.

WWPiere: have you ever heard "mold" ?

Yes, of course that is why I specified ventilation of the finish assembly. As for the lack of firestops, Antipode12, in the event of a fire in the basement, the heat would quickly concentrate at the ceiling, and there would be no opportunity to initiate the chimney effect.

In any case, You have decided upon the very best course of action: to intercept the water before it hits the wall. Once you have done the remediation, and monitored it through a few "high water" events, as long as there is no sign of dampness, you could slap up 1x4s or 2x2s (or whatever) strapping on 16" centers and hang whatever finish you want.

If there IS any dampness, (moisture in the soil can wick through the concrete blocks, which is why basements are usually cool) put your strapping on vertically, hang your finish paneling leaving a 1/2" gap top and bottom, then space your baseboard 1/4" above the floor, and disguise the gap at the ceiling with a crown moulding spaced 1/4" down. That way, air can circulate between the damp wall and the finish paneling, taking away moisture before it can accumulate, causing a chance for mould to grow.

Yes, of course that is why I specified ventilation of the finish assembly. As for the lack of firestops, Antipode12, in the event of a fire in the basement, the heat would quickly concentrate at the ceiling, and there would be no opportunity to initiate the chimney effect.

In any case, You have decided upon the very best course of action: to intercept the water before it hits the wall. Once you have done the remediation, and monitored it through a few "high water" events, as long as there is no sign of dampness, you could slap up 1x4s or 2x2s (or whatever) strapping on 16" centers and hang whatever finish you want.

If there IS any dampness, (moisture in the soil can wick through the concrete blocks, which is why basements are usually cool) put your strapping on vertically, hang your finish paneling leaving a 1/2" gap top and bottom, then space your baseboard 1/4" above the floor, and disguise the gap at the ceiling with a crown moulding spaced 1/4" down. That way, air can circulate between the damp wall and the finish paneling, taking away moisture before it can accumulate, causing a chance for mould to grow.

A high-quality post that I will definitely save for future reference. Thanks.