We owe more than our house is worth by $120,000-$150,00 and have an ARM that just increased. We can't afford our new payment and can't refinance. We tried everything from working with our lender to the new FHA secure. Our only option at this point is to short sale or foreclose. We have accepted this option and the impact on our credit. We would like to purchase a new house before our credit takes a hit. I found a company called Wilshire Holding Group, Inc that buys your property for what you owe. Their website is WilshireHolding: short sale real estate, short sale antioch, what is a short sale in real estate, tips to avoid foreclosure (http://www.wilshireholding.com). What they do is buy your property through assuming your loan subject to its original terms and transfer the deed. They then work with the lender to shortsale/foreclose the property. They provide you with a purchase contract, loan assumption agreement, executed transfer deed and HUD-1 settlement statement. We have found a new house and have been qualified. We were told that all we need to provide to get this new loan is the HUD-1 settlement statement from our current home. One of my questions is if the closing statement that we would get from Wilshire is a valid legal document that would be acceptable to get our new loan. I have been trying to do research on this company and can't find anything info stating it is a scam or not legit. I even tried the BBB and there was no complaints. Through the research I found that in Arizona the lender can't legally come after us for the remaining amount owed after the shortsale/foreclosure and with the new tax law we won't be affected on our taxes either. My second question would be if this is accurate? I read over our deed of trust on our existing house/loan and there is a due on sale clause but in Arizona I found that they can't come after you by law. Does this sound correct? If someone could look into this for me and let me know if this is a legit company and if we can use this to get a fresh start into a new home I would appreciate it. Thank you.

Hello j:

I don't know about that company, but before you DO anything, just yesterday, our wonderful congress passed some legislation that is supposed to bail out PEOPLE like YOU, instead of the big banks.

I'm sorry that I don't know more about it than that, but check it out BEFORE you do something.

excon

Thank you. I appreciate your help.

There are 1000's of people that claim to do things like that, and if your bank will take a short sale why have you not done that, And why would they assume the mortgage if at the short sale they don't get any money, that is what happens in a short sale, the bank takes the money from the sale but says you don't owe anything, the owner does not get any money from it.

So how is this company going to do it, do they change you a fee for this? Also what happens if the bank refuses a short sale, I have had 10 refused last year.

And let me see you want to walk away from this home to buy another home? Not try and keep the home you have by working with the lender??

I'm curious how someone can afford to get a mortgage for a second house while they already have one that they can't afford on the first house. Didn't the bank look at debt to earnings, current liabilities, etc. before deciding to lend the money?

What they do is buy your property through assuming your loan subject to its original terms and transfer the deed. They then work with the lender to shortsale/foreclose the property. They provide you with a purchase contract, loan assumption agreement, executed transfer deed and HUD-1 settlement statement.

The thing that jumped out at me when I read this is your statement that they'll "assume your loan subject to its original terms." I HIGHLY doubt that they're assuming your loan. Most loans are not assumable - especially not if you're in default.

What they'll do is purchase your home subject to the mortgage. That means that YOUR name will still be on the mortgage. But you'll be signing the house over to them. And before everyone jumps down my throat and says "you can't do that"... No, technically you shouldn't be able to do it, but it happens every single day! If the mortgage company suddenly gets a payment or two, or this Wilshire group brings the mortgage current, which they'll need to do to buy some time to work out a short sale, they'll (the mort. co.) will hang tight and not enforce the due on sale clause.

This is a tried and true property investment technique. I've sat through seminars all about how to buy houses this way. There are honest investors out there who do it successfully and help the home owners out a lot in the process. Then, on the other hand, it could go terribly wrong for you. And there are a lot of investors out there who aren't so honest.

If you can't bring yourself to let the idea go just yet why not ask this Wilshire Group (gosh, that sounds very high class - doesn't it?? ) for references of 10 people in your area who they've helped by this method? If they're on the up and up they should be able to provide you with references.

The whole thing just doesn't sound good. If you owed what the house was worth, or closer to it, maybe. But come on, they're doing this to make a profit. With the nubmers you gave us I just don't see how they're going to pull that off without some kind of funny business.

THEY'LL have control of your property... YOUR name will still be on the mortgage. NOT a position I'd want to be in!

We are in the same position and have considered Wilshire as well. Did you go through with the process?

Just wanted an update if you went with Wilshire? I agree with other writers regarding the assumption part. But I too am interested and have spoke with them on a number of occasions. Still am worried to do something like this.

Hey we are about to use Wilshire holdings, but of course have some concerns that this may all be too good to be true.

I can't find any negative remarks about them other than attorneys saying watch out. I have been trig to research the whole process but am not too bright when it comes to real estate law. Let me know how it goes and I'll keep you posted here how it is going for us.

WE have all the paperwork here ready to sign, I just need a real estate lawyer to take a look at it, I think that we just need to be aware of any worst case scenario/s

Hello Wilshire customers:

I took a look at the website. I don't like what I see. They assume your mortgage, but that will trigger the due on sale clause. That's going to get you into worse trouble.

I don't know how they work their magic. That's probably because there IS no magic. One of you just said that you thought it was too good to be true.

When it's too good to be true, it usually is.

excon

Wilshire has an article on their website regarding the "due on sale clause". Check it out. I have emailed the author with some questions. Who knows if he will respond? lusardix let me know what the attorney says. I am going to wait and if your attorney says it looks good them we will order the paper work too. BTW her is another link I found that has been helpful… Stop Foreclosure | Free Foreclosure Help | Free Evaluation (http://www.foreclosurefish.com/findhelpnow.htm)

If it's the same Wilshire, they owe me big money! They gave me a bad payoff amount on my loan and said they paid my property taxes at closing but never sent the check. This WIlshire is out of Portland Oregon.

I just started talking to wilshire holding... just wanted to know if anyone decided to go through with it... my current mortgage position is that I can make my payments... barely, but I can make them, but I am upside down in my mortgage by at least 80-100k... it makes me sick to pay it... I want to do something just to get out of it and buy something in a year or two

I have also spoken to them but I'm very hesitant. It does indeed see too good to be true. I even asked for some references, but of course they weren't "able" to do that.

Anyone out there actually give it a shot?

Hi

Lawyer has suggested that this is not a good idea. However, much Google searching has still not produced one negative comment about this Company. The fact that they have been in business for 14years , should produce at least some negative comments. There is also nothing on the Better business bureau on them either. They are not registered with the BBB but there are no complaints against them.

I wish that I had a crystal ball to help us to decide what to do.:confused:

Hi

Lawyer has suggested that this is not a good idea. However, much google searching has still not produced one negative comment about this Company. The fact that they have been in business for 14years , should produce at least some negative comments. There is also nothing on the Better business bureau on them either. They are not registered with the BBB but there are no complaints against them.

I wish that I had a crystal ball to help us to decide what to do.:confused:



You paid an Attorney for a legal opinion. I would follow that opinion.

If it's the same Wilshire, they owe me big money! They gave me a bad payoff amount on my loan and said they paid my property taxes at closing but never sent the check. This WIlshire is out of Portland Oregon.


I don't believe that this is the same company, these guys work from Nevada I believe, I have spoken to Stuart Vener who owns the company, and I have to say in doing so he presents a very good argument for doing this.:)

I'm in the same situation and I was wondering if anyone here went through the process with this particular company? How did it go?

If you search for better business bureau and go on their website you can type in Wilshire Holding Group and find they are a member of the Better Business Bureau if it is the same one you are looking at using. They have no compaints for the past 36 months. You should go on their website and check this company out. If you are considering letting them have your house, you certainly want to use a lawyer to represent you in the transaction to make sure there are no unknown risks.

DON'T USE THIS COMPANY! YOU NEED TO GO TO THESE GOVERNMENT WEBSITES WHO HAVE RECENTLY PUBLIUSHED PUBLIC WARNINGS ABOUT THESE PEOPLE!! AND READ MY STORY!!

FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD-
FRB: 5 Tips for Avoiding Foreclosure Scams (http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/foreclosurescamtips/default.htm)

US DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE-
USTP - Bankruptcy Fraud Scams (http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/public_affairs/factsheet/docs/fs06.htm)

FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION-
FTC Sues Mortgage Foreclosure “Rescue” Operation (http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2009/02/nfr.shtm)
Foreclosure Rescue Scams: Another Potential Stress for Homeowners in Distress (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre42.shtm)
A note to Homeowners Flyer (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/homes/rea16.shtm)
Mortgage Payments Sending You Reeling? Here’s What to Do (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/homes/rea04.shtm)

FDIC-
FDIC: Beware of Foreclosure Rescue Scams (http://www.fdic.gov/consumers/loans/prevention/rescue/beware.html)
FDIC: Beware of Foreclosure Rescue Scams (http://www.fdic.gov/consumers/loans/prevention/rescue/watch.html)
FDIC: Beware of Foreclosure Rescue Scams (http://www.fdic.gov/consumers/loans/prevention/rescue/protect.html)
FDIC: Beware of Foreclosure Rescue Scams (http://www.fdic.gov/consumers/loans/prevention/rescue/signs.html)
FDIC: Beware of Foreclosure Rescue Scams (http://www.fdic.gov/consumers/loans/prevention/rescue/caught.html)

US TREASURY DEPT-
Consumer Advisory 2009-1 (http://www.occ.treas.gov/ftp/ADVISORY/2009-1.html)

THESE ARE ALL RECENTLY RELEASED PUBLIC AWARENESS STATEMENTS BY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT AND ALL THE PROOF YOU'LL NEED TO NEVER DEAL WITH WILSHIRE OR ANY OTHER BUSINESS LIKE THIS!

I am a tenant in property that "Wilshire Holding Group, Inc" has acquired the Deed to, in fact they acquired Deeds to 3 properties on my street, which have 2 rentals at each property, so 6 rentals. I have lived here for 8 years, and many of my neighbors have lived here for 5 years or more, with no problems. In February 2009, "Wilshire" sent a letter notifying 2 of us that they were the new property owners, and to mail rent to them. Now I wouldn't have been so sceptical but:

1- The letter didn't have a postmark anywhere on the envelope
2- The return address was in Santa Clarita, California
3- Inside were self addressed stamped envelopes to mail our rent to a P.O.Box in Land O Lakes Florida
4- The letter stated to contact "Lisa" on her direct line, which was a Las Vegas number, and when each of us tenants called, we could never get an answer or any kind of voice mail of machine to leave a message, no matter what time of day or night we called.

After not beign able to contact anyone we looked "Wilshire" up online and were all in shock about the "claims" and the pictures of his staff, looked so generic, and thought some might possibly be hookers. At this time, the website had a Las Vegas Address listed as their business address and "Lisas" direct line as the business number.

Within a few days from the first time I looked at their website, it all changed, it looked more "professional" the address changed to 18803 Soledad Canyon Rd. Canyon Country, Ca 91351 and now had 877 and 800 numbers.

On May 17, 2009 I printed out some pages from their site and everything was the same.

On May 22, 2009, I was showing a neighbor their page and I couldn't believe it, they added a staff member "Nicole" and the address had changed AGAIN, its now 27013 Langside Ave, Ste C, Canyon Country, Ca 91355 AND has P.O. Box 1067, Land O Lakes, Fl 34639 listed.

I too, looked on the BBB right away. In February 2009 "Wilshire Holding Group" had a D- for their grade. The BBB stated this grade was given because they couldn't verify that the business was doing business with valid and required licenses. They were listed as a Las Vegas business then. To my surprise, when I logged onto BBB May 17 2009, the BBB had NR or No Rating for "Wilshire Holding Group" but amazingly had another business "Wilshire Holding Group INC" listed as one of their "Accredited Businesses" with an A- as the grade and a "business license" # listed in Florida. After researching the BBB, I found that you can't go back and look at past "gradings" and that to be an "Accredited Business" with them, the business listed pays $500 a year to be an "Accredited BBB Business" which is where the money to pay the BBB's employees and expenses comes from, those very businesses that pay to be "Accredited" Now how does that work out? If the BBB was giving "bad" grades to these businesses then that business probably won't pay for their "Accredidation" next year. The BBB has been under scrutney for their business practices for years now. I DON'T TRUST THE BBB after my own experience. Search "Wilshire Holding Group" (no INC) and see what comes back.

After reseaching "Stuart Vener" (who also goes by Vener Stuart) and finding his numerous "real estate" businesses that have been listed at his home address and P.O. Box 1067 in Florida, and ones in Las Vegas Nevada, and the numerous times he's changed his business names, and the numerous times he's been sued, had leins against his properties, and not to mention that he has had "Lingere, Escort and Dating" businesses in He and his son Chris Vener's names in Clark County, Las Vegas (which supports my "hooker" comment from before) he seems to be a CON ARTIST!

He also claims to have real estate license in California and Nevada but if you search

CA Dept of Real Estate-
Department of Real Estate Home Page (http://www.dre.ca.gov/)

1-click on the "Consumers" tab
2-click on "License Status Check"
3-type in "Vener"
4-click find

Click on Vener, Stuart David to see his status;

You see his "Broker" license (#00875431) was in Las Vegas and expired in 2000 and there is NO RECORD of any other type of Real Estate License in CA for him.

In Nevada-
License Lookup (http://red.prod.lookup.nv.gov/)
1-click Continue
2-scroll down and in the Last Name box type Vener
3-click search- this takes a few minutes but it really is searching
When its done there will be a list under the search box area
Click on "Vener, Stuart"

You can see the only thing under his name is a BROKER license (#B.0022237.INDV) that expired 4/30/1999

You can click back to the search page and search "Wilshire Holding Group Inc" and you'll see that- "No Results Found for Specified input" is what the search result is, which means they're not doing business legally in Nevada.

I also researched public records on the internet FOR FREE, 2 counties in California where I knew for a fact "Wilshire" had acquired Deeds from and found the results to be very upsetting. In ALL cases, the people who hired "Wilshire" end up having the forecloser process started OR being foreclosed on and losing their property in the end, within just a few months of Deeding their property over to "Wilshire." Here are the links to those counties, take a look yourself-

Tehama County-
TehamaPublic.CountyRecords.com (http://tehamapublic.countyrecords.com/)

1-Click "Search Now" then "Official Records thru 00/00/2009"
2-In the "Grantor or Grantee" box type Wilshire Holding Group Inc
3-you can press enter or click search

THEN go back to the search page but this time,
In the "Grantor or Grantee" box type the last name of one of the people "Wilshire" got the Deed from, here are the names of the people from Tehama County-

Palmer, Eugene
Palmer, Jeanie

Valdovines, Jamie
Valdovines, Alysa

Monterey County has a strange web address but it is Monterey Countys Official Website
Monterey County-
Monterey County Recorder's Office (http://65.249.61.8)

1-on the left side of the page click on Official Records
2-click on Granor/Grantee
3-In the "Grantor or Grantee" box type Wilshire Holding Group Inc
4-click search

THEN go back to the search page but this time,
In the "Grantor or Grantee" box type the last name of one of the people "Wilshire" got the Deed from, here are the names of the people from Monterey County-

Palmer, Jeanie
Torres, Ofelia
Espinoza, Juventino

Notice the order or the dates when different things happen (deed transfers, notice of default, notice of sale) and notice that "Wilshire" has the Deed, but the Notice of Default and Notice of Trustees Sale are ONLY given to the persons who DEEDED their property over to "Wilshire," with "Wilshire" having no financial or legal liabilty to anything! Notice that the Valdovines lose their prorerties, and they are sold at a courthouse auction. I've seen the records and what the highest bid was and "Wilshire" does not buy the property, nor do they owe anything on the property.

And in Clark County Nevada, you'll find that "Wilshire Holding Group Inc" has 2 Lein's and 2 Notice of Default's against them all occurring in 2009 most recent was 3/18/2009. Does this sound like actions that would be taken against a good business to you?

Clark County Recorder-
http://recorder.co.clark.nv.us/extReal/Navigate.asp?SimpleSearch.x=57&SimpleSearch.y=14

1-type in "Wilshire Holding Group"
2-hit enter
3-click in the box next to "Wilshire Holding Group Inc" name
4-click detail data

The Requestor is the person taking action, the 1st 2nd 3rd ext... Party, is the person action is being taken against. Document type is pretty obvious what it means. You can see "Wilshire" has a few things going on...

Needless to say, "Wilshire" acquired the properties in Jan 2009 the properties in my neighborhood got Notice of Defaults, AFTER "Wilshire" acquired the Deed, and they are now being sold at the courthouse, the first one, on June 4, 2009, second one on June 10, 2009, and mine will prob be July 10, 2009 because for some reason, the Notice Of Default on my house wasn't filed until 30 days after the one being sold on June 10th so I'm just guessing July 10th will be my houses sale date.

I have much much much more INFO and RESEARCH on Stuart Vener and his past businesses and his partner Fred Claridge. I think I've said A LOT here, but if you want more info, let me know.

Hope you weren't one of the people who got "CONNED" into this "SCAM"

Radd32 What is your point? As a renter you have no say to whom you pay your rent to unless you can prove this Wilshire is not the property owner. However, since you seem so adept at research go and see if indeed this Wilshire has a legitimate recorded deed. If they do then they are the owners. Period. You have no standing to dispute.

Further, as a renter what is your issue. I surmise you are looking to get our of paying your rent.

Also, all the cites you have do not mention Wilshire specifically. They are all about mortgage foreclosure scams that pertain to the property owners, NOT renters.

Please write back as to exactly what your issue is all about since I have done the homework and their process appears to be legitimate. However and being redundant as a renter you have no standing.

I have also been researching this company, and RADD32, I have this question for you all those links you provided, none of them mention Wilshire. Not one. I am not saying they are not in that group of fraudulent companies, but I could not find anyone that has used them say anything bad about them. Why? I am in the same situation was another poster on this board and I am also looking into using them. I have called the attorney general in the state they reside as well as the state I my home is in, and they checked out clean. I have spoke with 3 attorneys and have gotten mixed reviews from them. What bothers me is that I can't find any concrete examples good or bad for that matter on them. Just people speculating about it. I called three attorneys in my area and got 3 different opinions, 1 good , one OK, and one that was convinced it was a scam. So I have not done anything with this company yet, and I was wondering since you have people who you know who have, what have they said? Are they happy with Wilshire?

We are in the same position and have considered Wilshire as well. Did you go through with the process?

Did you guys end up using them? Why/Why not? I am also considering them.

I just found this out and I think this is what keeps me away from doing it. This is off the BBB website. Stuart Vener is owner of Pacific Properties in CA and I have talked to him and he seems to be proud of his accomplishments in CA during the down cycle in the 1990s. Pacific Properties which is now known as Affirmative Mortgage has an A rating with the BBB. However in the comment section of the BBB this is there:

This company's promotional materials contain a number of misleading statements. The company claims it can help avoid tax liability in situations where property may go into foreclosure. It also claims their services enable the consumer to legitimatly dispute negative information on a credit report by using their services. According to the company, all of this is accomplished by conveying title of the property to them. In January 1995, the IRS issued a press release stating that transfers of property to companies like this will be regarded as a sham and will not be recognized as a bona fide sale for tax purposes. In other words, if income tax comes due as a result of foreclosure or other transfer of property, conveyance of the title to companies like this will not avoid that liability. Most mortgages require that you obtain the permission of the mortgage company before assigning the note to a third party. Failure to comply with that requirement constitutes a default of the note which will result in foreclosure. Any non payment of the mortgage or foreclosure will be reported to the IRS and will appear on the credit report of the original maker of the note. Transfer of title will have no effect on those obligations.

So this is exactly what Wilshire is claiming to do, and there it is in black and white, the documents you get from them don't accomplish anything. You might as well just stop paying the bank and let it go to foreclosure, and save yourself the 1 percent Wilshire charges. It sounds like to me this company just keeps opening up new companies, gets a clean BBB record and then moves on until that name is tarnished. I think time and the government agencies will catch up to Mr. Vener soon, its unfortunate that promises of hope are all bull.

I just found this out and I think this is what keeps me away from doing it. This is off the BBB website. Stuart Vener is owner of Pacific Properties in CA and I have talked to him and he seems to be proud of his accomplishments in CA during the down cycle in the 1990s. Pacific Properties which is now known as Affirmative Mortgage has an A rating with the BBB. However in the comment section of the BBB this is there:

This company's promotional materials contain a number of misleading statements. The company claims it can help avoid tax liability in situations where property may go into foreclosure. It also claims their services enable the consumer to legitimatly dispute negative information on a credit report by using their services. According to the company, all of this is accomplished by conveying title of the property to them. In January 1995, the IRS issued a press release stating that transfers of property to companies like this will be regarded as a sham and will not be recognized as a bona fide sale for tax purposes. In other words, if income tax comes due as a result of foreclosure or other transfer of property, conveyance of the title to companies like this will not avoid that liability. Most mortgages require that you obtain the permission of the mortgage company before assigning the note to a third party. Failure to comply with that requirement constitutes a default of the note which will result in forclosure. Any non payment of the mortgage or forclosure will be reported to the IRS and will appear on the credit report of the original maker of the note. Transfer of title will have no effect on those obligations.

So this is exactly what Wilshire is claiming to do, and there it is in black and white, the documents you get from them dont accomplish anything. You might as well just stop paying the bank and let it go to foreclosure, and save your self the 1 percent Wilshire charges. It sounds like to me this company just keeps opening up new companies, gets a clean BBB record and then moves on until that name is tarnished. I think time and the government agencies will catch up to Mr. Vener soon, its unfortunate that promises of hope are all bull.

candria77- THANK YOU FOR YOUR RESEARCH AND INFORMATION ON THESE SCAMMERS!! GOOD FOR YOU FOR BEING SMART AND DOING YOUR HOMEWORK!! WOW! That is EXACTLY what I was going to tell you about in my response to you. All the different businesses and/or business STUART VENER has, or has had, that ALL have to do with real estate, foreclosure, second chance mortgages, etc. YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT! He keeps changing the name of businesses, (as he has already done with "WILSHIRE HOLDING GROUP INC as can be seen if you search BBB) and keeps changing the states he does business in. BBB (a joke), police, the government, and unfortuanatly, probably alot of vunerable people haven't caught on to this scam STUART VENER has been pulling for years now. That's why I responded to the original question about "WILSHIRE HOLDING GROUP" in hopes that I would stop just one person, hopefully more, from dealing with these people in amy way ever.

Did you happen to go to Clark County, Nevada's public records search? I just dont get how a business claiming to "help" people with foreclosure, has properties being foreclosed on themselves? That doesn't make any sense to me. I could go on about all the information I have found on "STUART VENER" and his "SO CALLED" businesses. I have a pile of stuff printed out from the internet. Everytime I find anything, I print it. I have proof they've changed their webpage (addresses, phone numbers, employees, etc) at least 6 times since February. I know that's not the biggest deal, but its just one of the many peices to the big puzzle, that will one day be put together.

I am a renter, not the owner. But unfortunatly, the owners, for some unknown reason, didn't do their homework on these people, as yo and i did, and got mixed up with "WILSHIRE" now the house I've lived in for 8 years, and 5 others on my street, will be sold at auction next week. And the owners not only delt with "WILSHIRE" to "help" them with their rental properties, but also their own home in another county, which they are losing anyday now too. They paid out major money to this scam, they could've used that money to pay past due payments, but didn't find out they were caught up in a scam until it was to late. The government has FREE help out there for people dealing with foreclosure. The link is
Foreclosure Avoidance Counseling - HUD (http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/hcc/fc/)

I also wanted to respond to your comment about not finding anything mentioning "WILSHIRE" on the government links I posted. The government hasn't stated the name of any business specifically. However, what they do have on their sites is very important - they state the fact that these types of businesses are popping up at an alarming rate, and they've all issued public warnings, and listed the warning signs of "foreclosure relief scams" these are from the Federal Trade Commission website-

Red Flags
If you’re looking for foreclosure prevention help, avoid any business that:

*guarantees to stop the foreclosure process – no matter what your circumstances
*instructs you not to contact your lender, lawyer, or credit or housing counselor
*collects a fee before providing you with any services
*accepts payment only by cashier’s check or wire transfer
*encourages you to lease your home so you can buy it back over time
*tells you to make your mortgage payments directly to it, rather than your lender
*tells you to transfer your property deed or title to it
*offers to buy your house for cash at a fixed price that is not set by the housing market at the time of sale
*offers to fill out paperwork for you
*pressures you to sign paperwork you haven’t had a chance to read thoroughly or that you don’t understand.

If you read the warning signs, then compare the warning signs to "WILSHIRE'S" business practices, you can go down the list and put a checkmark next to each item on the list, except for one - they don't have you make mortgage payments to them, in fact, they tell you not to make payments and that they won't be either and for you to live in the house for "free" as a "house-sitter" for 6 months, because that's how long it will ltake for the "WILSHIRE AQUISITION" to be completed.

All I can say to anyone wanting to know info about "WILSHIRE" or any other business is to do your homework like candria77 and myself have done. You will find that one thing or that one person who commented on a site, such as this, that will help you. I think the first thing people should do is go to government websites and see what they are saying. Then your're not just getting what you might think is other people's opinion's about a business.

The FTC just released another public notice on Fri May 29, 2009, about foreclosure relief scams, that makes 3 public releases on this issue in the month of May, 2009, which is very disturbing. Other government websites with warnings on foreclosure relief scams are-
FDIC
Federal Reserve Board
U.S. Dept of Justice
U.S. Treasury Dept
FHA

If I can answer any other questions for anyone, feel free to ask me

I too was looking into this. I think I'll order the package and read the fine print. The main concept as stated above is whether they really "assume" your loan. If the Lender agrees to let Wilshire Holdings formally assume your loan. You're OK. If they don't, don't do it. Period.

The Lender is who decides whether you get a 1099 for debt relief or to calls the loan due. And, by the way, in answer to one of the people above, Wilshire Holdings charges a 1% fee (calculated on your existing loan balance) for this "service". Call your Lender and ask some questions - even though WH tells you not to.

No one should be telling you not to contact your Lender in a legitimate deal - should they?

This coming from a Commercial Note Department (loans) Manager with 30 years of real estate experience -

Hi, I just talked to this company, too. I have six houses in Houston under water and I'd like to offload about three of them. These guys sounded really defensive on the phone (and even hung up on me) when I started asking why they charge money up-front just to email out the documents. Let me know if you go through with this and how it works out. Thanks.

If you are charged a fee, then this is a scam. You will convey legal title to your property over to Wilshire. They will in turn write your bank and tell them that they (Wilshire) have purchased your property and have assumed your loan. However, to quote from one of their letter to a lender they state that "during the period WHGI (Wilshire) is in possession of the property, we will NOT be making payments". No bank is going to agree to this. The bank does not have a contractral relationship with Wilshire. The foreclosure ad will be in your name and the bad debt credit report will be in your name.

It looks like it's a decent deal and only costs $100 to find out. I think I'm going to do it. I'll pay the $100 and bring the paperwork to my attorney to have them check the legal part. I wouldn't consider doing anything like this without an attorney though.

If you don't have an attorney and want information on how you can get legal advice for low dollars let me know and I'll show you how to do it. If anyone is on this page and doesn't have an attorney they can call for advice any time they need this service.

It looks like it's a decent deal and only costs $100 to find out. I think I'm going to do it. I'll pay the $100 and bring the paperwork to my attorney to have them check the legal part. I wouldn't consider doing anything like this without an attorney though.

If you don't have an attorney and want information on how you can get legal advice for low dollars let me know and I'll show you how to do it. If anyone is on this page and doesn't have an attorney they can call for advice any time they need this service.


Call who for advice any time they need this service? Who should we call?

Also - I'd be interested in how to obtain legal advice for low dollars.

Has anyone tried this yet. Please someone let us know if this thing works or not.

I just found this out and I think this is what keeps me away from doing it. This is off the BBB website. Stuart Vener is owner of Pacific Properties in CA and I have talked to him and he seems to be proud of his accomplishments in CA during the down cycle in the 1990s. Pacific Properties which is now known as Affirmative Mortgage has an A rating with the BBB. However in the comment section of the BBB this is there:

This company's promotional materials contain a number of misleading statements. The company claims it can help avoid tax liability in situations where property may go into foreclosure. It also claims their services enable the consumer to legitimatly dispute negative information on a credit report by using their services. According to the company, all of this is accomplished by conveying title of the property to them. In January 1995, the IRS issued a press release stating that transfers of property to companies like this will be regarded as a sham and will not be recognized as a bona fide sale for tax purposes. In other words, if income tax comes due as a result of foreclosure or other transfer of property, conveyance of the title to companies like this will not avoid that liability. Most mortgages require that you obtain the permission of the mortgage company before assigning the note to a third party. Failure to comply with that requirement constitutes a default of the note which will result in forclosure. Any non payment of the mortgage or forclosure will be reported to the IRS and will appear on the credit report of the original maker of the note. Transfer of title will have no effect on those obligations.

So this is exactly what Wilshire is claiming to do, and there it is in black and white, the documents you get from them dont accomplish anything. You might as well just stop paying the bank and let it go to foreclosure, and save your self the 1 percent Wilshire charges. It sounds like to me this company just keeps opening up new companies, gets a clean BBB record and then moves on until that name is tarnished. I think time and the government agencies will catch up to Mr. Vener soon, its unfortunate that promises of hope are all bull.

__________________________________________________ ___________________

Well Claudia and Rad who clearly has a personal axe to grind - that's not entirely accurate - especially with the taxes as they relate to primary residences. I went to the IRS website and found that those debts are forgiven under law as not taxable in almost all cases and have been since 2007:

Don't trust me - Trust a government website that addresses this specific issue:

Home Foreclosure and Debt Cancellation (http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=174034,00.html)

The Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act and Debt Cancellation

It seems that some people are trying to scare people away from this company - I assume it's personal because they haven't used the company.
__________________________________________________ ____________

What I am looking for is an unbiased opinion from someone that has used the company or actually has discussed it in depth with their attorney instead of just a conference call. I still cannot find anyone with a bad "experience" (other than the renter posting) and would like any insight from someone who doesn't have an axe to grind.

PS: this is my first time using this site and as quoted the original poster is candria77 not claudia.

I hope there is help for the people like the original poster - I may be in that situation soon.

PS: this is my first time using this site and as quoted the original poster is candria77 not claudia.

I hope there is help for the people like the original poster - I may be in that situation soon.


You have oversimplified the Statute you quoted.

"If you borrow money from a commercial lender and the lender later cancels or forgives the debt, you may have to include the cancelled amount in income for tax purposes, depending on the circumstances. When you borrowed the money you were not required to include the loan proceeds in income because you had an obligation to repay the lender. When that obligation is subsequently forgiven, the amount you received as loan proceeds is reportable as income because you no longer have an obligation to repay the lender. The lender is usually required to report the amount of the canceled debt to you and the IRS on a Form 1099-C, Cancellation of Debt.

Here's a very simplified example. You borrow $10,000 and default on the loan after paying back $2,000. If the lender is unable to collect the remaining debt from you, there is a cancellation of debt of $8,000, which generally is taxable income to you."

This is a situation which must be reviewed on a case-by-case basis by a Tax Attorney.

(And, yes, Radd has issues.)

I was almost going to use this company until I read these entries. They said that THEY would be getting the 1099, NOT ME because they would be the new owners and that they would shortsale the property, no mention was made about foreclosure - I could easily do that myself, I don't need to pay them to do this. They also said that there would be no deficiiency judgment from the way that they do the deal because it is a trustee foreclosure.

You have oversimplified the Statute you quoted.

"If you borrow money from a commercial lender and the lender later cancels or forgives the debt, you may have to include the cancelled amount in income for tax purposes, depending on the circumstances. When you borrowed the money you were not required to include the loan proceeds in income because you had an obligation to repay the lender. When that obligation is subsequently forgiven, the amount you received as loan proceeds is reportable as income because you no longer have an obligation to repay the lender. The lender is usually required to report the amount of the canceled debt to you and the IRS on a Form 1099-C, Cancellation of Debt.

Here’s a very simplified example. You borrow $10,000 and default on the loan after paying back $2,000. If the lender is unable to collect the remaining debt from you, there is a cancellation of debt of $8,000, which generally is taxable income to you."

This is a situation which must be reviewed on a case-by-case basis by a Tax Attorney.

(And, yes, Radd has issues.)

__________________________________________________ ___________

True, but it is still possible depending on the situation. This is a quote from the IRS website - it largely depends on whether it's a recourse or nonrecourse loan:

*

Home Foreclosure and Debt Cancellation


Update Dec. 11, 2008 — The Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act of 2007 generally allows taxpayers to exclude income from the discharge of debt on their principal residence. Debt reduced through mortgage restructuring, as well as mortgage debt forgiven in connection with a foreclosure, qualify for this relief.

This provision applies to debt forgiven in calendar years 2007 through 2012. Up to $2 million of forgiven debt is eligible for this exclusion ($1 million if married filing separately). The exclusion doesn’t apply if the discharge is due to services performed for the lender or any other reason not directly related to a decline in the home’s value or the taxpayer’s financial condition.

The amount excluded reduces the taxpayer’s cost basis in the home. More details. Further information, including detailed examples, can also be found in Publication 4681, Canceled Debts, Foreclosures, Repossessions, and Abandonments.

The questions and answers, below, are based on the law prior to the passage of the Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act of 2007.

1. What is Cancellation of Debt?

If you borrow money from a commercial lender and the lender later cancels or forgives the debt, you may have to include the cancelled amount in income for tax purposes, depending on the circumstances. When you borrowed the money you were not required to include the loan proceeds in income because you had an obligation to repay the lender. When that obligation is subsequently forgiven, the amount you received as loan proceeds is reportable as income because you no longer have an obligation to repay the lender. The lender is usually required to report the amount of the canceled debt to you and the IRS on a Form 1099-C, Cancellation of Debt.

Here’s a very simplified example. You borrow $10,000 and default on the loan after paying back $2,000. If the lender is unable to collect the remaining debt from you, there is a cancellation of debt of $8,000, which generally is taxable income to you.

2. Is Cancellation of Debt income always taxable?

Not always. There are some exceptions. The most common situations when cancellation of debt income is not taxable involve:

* Bankruptcy: Debts discharged through bankruptcy are not considered taxable income.
* Insolvency: If you are insolvent when the debt is cancelled, some or all of the cancelled debt may not be taxable to you.You are insolvent when your total debts are more than the fair market value of your total assets.Insolvency can be fairly complex to determine and the assistance of a tax professional is recommended if you believe you qualify for this exception.
* Certain farm debts:If you incurred the debt directly in operation of a farm, more than half your income from the prior three years was from farming, and the loan was owed to a person or agency regularly engaged in lending, your cancelled debt is generally not considered taxable income.The rules applicable to farmers are complex and the assistance of a tax professional is recommended if you believe you qualify for this exception.
* Non-recourse loans:A non-recourse loan is a loan for which the lender’s only remedy in case of default is to repossess the property being financed or used as collateral.That is, the lender cannot pursue you personally in case of default.Forgiveness of a non-recourse loan resulting from a foreclosure does not result in cancellation of debt income.However, it may result in other tax consequences, as discussed in Question 3 below.



3. I lost my home through foreclosure. Are there tax consequences?

There are two possible consequences you must consider:

* Taxable cancellation of debt income.(Note: As stated above, cancellation of debt income is not taxable in the case of non-recourse loans.)
* A reportable gain from the disposition of the home (because foreclosures are treated like sales for tax purposes).(Note: Often some or all of the gain from the sale of a personal residence qualifies for exclusion from income.)

Use the following steps to compute the income to be reported from a foreclosure:

Step 1 - Figuring Cancellation of Debt Income (Note: For non-recourse loans, skip this section. You have no income from cancellation of debt.)

1. Enter the total amount of the debt immediately prior to the foreclosure.___________
2. Enter the fair market value of the property from Form 1099-C, box 7. ___________
3. Subtract line 2 from line 1.If less than zero, enter zero.___________

The amount on line 3 will generally equal the amount shown in box 2 of Form 1099-C. This amount is taxable unless you meet one of the exceptions in question 2. Enter it on line 21, Other Income, of your Form 1040.

Step 2 – Figuring Gain from Foreclosure

4. Enter the fair market value of the property foreclosed.For non-recourse loans, enter the amount of the debt immediately prior to the foreclosure ________
5. Enter your adjusted basis in the property.(Usually your purchase price plus the cost of any major improvements.) ____________
6. Subtract line 5 from line 4. If less than zero, enter zero.

The amount on line 6 is your gain from the foreclosure of your home. If you have owned and used the home as your principal residence for periods totaling at least two years during the five year period ending on the date of the foreclosure, you may exclude up to $250,000 (up to $500,000 for married couples filing a joint return) from income. If you do not qualify for this exclusion, or your gain exceeds $250,000 ($500,000 for married couples filing a joint return), report the taxable amount on Schedule D, Capital Gains and Losses.
__________________________________________________ _____

In any event, I am looking for someone who has any comments after dealing with this group personally please??

I'm sure there was a point to posting the entire site. Why not just post the applicable parts?

I'm certainly not going to read all of this, particularly when there are no quotation marks and I don't know where the section ends and you begin.

I find nothing to verify your statement "I went to the IRS website and found that those debts are forgiven under law as not taxable in almost all cases and have been since 2007."

I'm in a desperate situation like some of you who have written above and decided to contact Wilshire Holdings for assistance. As of today, I have not returned their call because of friend of mine directed me to this page. I've read all of your reviews and I have to say even though I initially thought this process was too good to be true... I feel it is. I can do bad by myself I don't need more trouble by another company. I will keep this page on my favorites to see if anyone has gone through the process with Wilshire Holdings 100% and will be able to write about it (good or bad). Thanks everyone for your reviews.

Lots of great information on this topic... but has anyone gone through the process, and have some first-hand experience with what ended up happenning? Thanks

DON'T USE THIS COMPANY! YOU NEED TO GO TO THESE GOVERNMENT WEBSITES WHO HAVE RECENTLY PUBLIUSHED PUBLIC WARNINGS ABOUT THESE PEOPLE!!! AND READ MY STORY!!!

FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD-
FRB: 5 Tips for Avoiding Foreclosure Scams (http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/foreclosurescamtips/default.htm)

US DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE-
USTP - Bankruptcy Fraud Scams (http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/public_affairs/factsheet/docs/fs06.htm)

FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION-
FTC Sues Mortgage Foreclosure “Rescue” Operation (http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2009/02/nfr.shtm)
Foreclosure Rescue Scams: Another Potential Stress for Homeowners in Distress (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre42.shtm)
A note to Homeowners Flyer (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/homes/rea16.shtm)
Mortgage Payments Sending You Reeling? Here’s What to Do (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/homes/rea04.shtm)

FDIC-
FDIC: Beware of Foreclosure Rescue Scams (http://www.fdic.gov/consumers/loans/prevention/rescue/beware.html)
FDIC: Beware of Foreclosure Rescue Scams (http://www.fdic.gov/consumers/loans/prevention/rescue/watch.html)
FDIC: Beware of Foreclosure Rescue Scams (http://www.fdic.gov/consumers/loans/prevention/rescue/protect.html)
FDIC: Beware of Foreclosure Rescue Scams (http://www.fdic.gov/consumers/loans/prevention/rescue/signs.html)
FDIC: Beware of Foreclosure Rescue Scams (http://www.fdic.gov/consumers/loans/prevention/rescue/caught.html)

US TREASURY DEPT-
Consumer Advisory 2009-1 (http://www.occ.treas.gov/ftp/ADVISORY/2009-1.html)

THESE ARE ALL RECENTLY RELEASED PUBLIC AWARENESS STATEMENTS BY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT AND ALL THE PROOF YOU'LL NEED TO NEVER DEAL WITH WILSHIRE OR ANY OTHER BUSINESS LIKE THIS!

I am a tenant in property that "Wilshire Holding Group, Inc" has aquired the Deed to, in fact they aquired Deeds to 3 properties on my street, which have 2 rentals at each property, so 6 rentals. I have lived here for 8 years, and many of my neighbors have lived here for 5 years or more, with no problems. In February 2009, "Wilshire" sent a letter notifying 2 of us that they were the new property owners, and to mail rent to them. Now I wouldn't have been so sceptical but:

1- The letter didn't have a postmark anywhere on the envelope
2- The return address was in Santa Clarita, California
3- Inside were self addressed stamped envelopes to mail our rent to a P.O.Box in Land O Lakes Florida
4- The letter stated to contact "Lisa" on her direct line, which was a Las Vegas number, and when each of us tenants called, we could never get an answer or any kind of voice mail of machine to leave a message, no matter what time of day or night we called.

After not beign able to contact anyone we looked "Wilshire" up online and were all in shock about the "claims" and the pictures of his staff, looked so generic, and thought some might possibly be hookers. At this time, the website had a Las Vegas Address listed as their business address and "Lisas" direct line as the business number.

Within a few days from the first time I looked at their website, it all changed, it looked more "professional" the address changed to 18803 Soledad Canyon Rd. Canyon Country, Ca 91351 and now had 877 and 800 numbers.

On May 17, 2009 I printed out some pages from their site and everything was the same.

On May 22, 2009, I was showing a neighbor their page and I couldn't believe it, they added a staff member "Nicole" and the address had changed AGAIN, its now 27013 Langside Ave, Ste C, Canyon Country, Ca 91355 AND has P.O. Box 1067, Land O Lakes, Fl 34639 listed.

I too, looked on the BBB right away. In February 2009 "Wilshire Holding Group" had a D- for their grade. The BBB stated this grade was given becasue they couldn't verify that the business was doing business with valid and required licenses. They were listed as a Las Vegas business then. To my surprise, when I logged onto BBB May 17 2009, the BBB had NR or No Rating for "Wilshire Holding Group" but amazingly had another business "Wilshire Holding Group INC" listed as one of their "Accredited Businesses" with an A- as the grade and a "business license" # listed in Florida. After researching the BBB, I found that you can't go back and look at past "gradings" and that to be an "Accredited Business" with them, the business listed pays $500 a year to be an "Accredited BBB Business" which is where the money to pay the BBB's employees and expenses comes from, those very businesses that pay to be "Accredited" Now how does that work out? If the BBB was giving "bad" grades to these businesses then that business probably won't pay for their "Accredidation" next year. The BBB has been under scrutney for their business practices for years now. I DON'T TRUST THE BBB after my own experience. Search "Wilshire Holding Group" (no INC) and see what comes back.

After reseaching "Stuart Vener" (who also goes by Vener Stuart) and finding his numerous "real estate" businesses that have been listed at his home address and P.O. Box 1067 in Florida, and ones in Las Vegas Nevada, and the numerous times hes changed his business names, and the numerous times he's been sued, had leins against his properties, and not to mention that he has had "Lingere, Escort and Dating" businesses in He and his son Chris Vener's names in Clark County, Las Vegas (which supports my "hooker" comment from before) he seems to be a CON ARTIST!

He also claims to have real estate license in California and Nevada but if you search

CA Dept of Real Estate-
Department of Real Estate Home Page (http://www.dre.ca.gov/)

1-click on the "Consumers" tab
2-click on "License Status Check"
3-type in "Vener"
4-click find

Click on Vener, Stuart David to see his status;

You see his "Broker" license (#00875431) was in Las Vegas and expired in 2000 and there is NO RECORD of any other type of Real Estate License in CA for him.

In Nevada-
License Lookup (http://red.prod.lookup.nv.gov/)
1-click Continue
2-scroll down and in the Last Name box type Vener
3-click search- this takes a few minutes but it really is searching
When its done there will be a list under the search box area
click on "Vener, Stuart"

You can see the only thing under his name is a BROKER license (#B.0022237.INDV) that expired 4/30/1999

You can click back to the search page and search "Wilshire Holding Group Inc" and you'll see that- "No Results Found for Specified input" is what the search result is, which means they're not doing business legally in Nevada.

I also researched public records on the internet FOR FREE, 2 counties in California where I knew for a fact "Wilshire" had aquired Deeds from and found the results to be very upsetting. In ALL cases, the people who hired "Wilshire" end up having the forecloser process started OR being foreclosed on and losing their property in the end, within just a few months of Deeding their property over to "Wilshire." Here are the links to those counties, take a look yourself-

Tehama County-
TehamaPublic.CountyRecords.com (http://tehamapublic.countyrecords.com/)

1-Click "Search Now" then "Official Records thru 00/00/2009"
2-In the "Grantor or Grantee" box type Wilshire Holding Group Inc
3-you can press enter or click search

THEN go back to the search page but this time,
In the "Grantor or Grantee" box type the last name of one of the people "Wilshire" got the Deed from, here are the names of the people from Tehama County-

Palmer, Eugene
Palmer, Jeanie

Valdovines, Jamie
Valdovines, Alysa

Monterey County has a strange web address but it is Monterey Countys Official Website
Monterey County-
Monterey County Recorder's Office (http://65.249.61.8)

1-on the left side of the page click on Official Records
2-click on Granor/Grantee
3-In the "Grantor or Grantee" box type Wilshire Holding Group Inc
4-click search

THEN go back to the search page but this time,
In the "Grantor or Grantee" box type the last name of one of the people "Wilshire" got the Deed from, here are the names of the people from Monterey County-

Palmer, Jeanie
Torres, Ofelia
Espinoza, Juventino

Notice the order or the dates when different things happen (deed transfers, notice of default, notice of sale) and notice that "Wilshire" has the Deed, but the Notice of Default and Notice of Trustees Sale are ONLY given to the persons who DEEDED their property over to "Wilshire," with "Wilshire" having no financial or legal liabilty to anything! Notice that the Valdovines lose their prorerties, and they are sold at a courthouse auction. I've seen the records and what the highest bid was and "Wilshire" does not buy the property, nor do they owe anything on the property.

And in Clark County Nevada, you'll find that "Wilshire Holding Group Inc" has 2 Lein's and 2 Notice of Default's against them all occuring in 2009 most recent was 3/18/2009. Does this sound like actions that would be taken against a good business to you?

Clark County Recorder-
http://recorder.co.clark.nv.us/extReal/Navigate.asp?SimpleSearch.x=57&SimpleSearch.y=14

1-type in "Wilshire Holding Group"
2-hit enter
3-click in the box next to "Wilshire Holding Group Inc" name
4-click detail data

The Requestor is the person taking action, the 1st 2nd 3rd ext... Party, is the person action is being taken against. Document type is pretty obvious what it means. You can see "Wilshire" has a few things going on....

Needless to say, "Wilshire" aquired the properties in Jan 2009 the properties in my neighborhood got Notice of Defaults, AFTER "Wilshire" aquired the Deed, and they are now being sold at the courthouse, the first one, on June 4, 2009, second one on June 10, 2009, and mine will prob be July 10, 2009 because for some reason, the Notice Of Default on my house wasn't filed until 30 days after the one being sold on June 10th so I'm just guessing July 10th will be my houses sale date.

I have much much much more INFO and RESEARCH on Stuart Vener and his past businesses and his partner Fred Claridge. I think I've said A LOT here, but if you want more info, let me know.

Hope you weren't one of the people who got "CONNED" into this "SCAM"

I would like more information on Stuart Vener I had been thinking about going through this program. I am aware that he lets the home go into Foreclosure. I can either walk away or Deed it over to him. When I get another mortgage or fill out that rental application and on the bottom of the app. It asks if I ever filed a Bankruptcy or a Foreclosure I can say No. Because I will have a copy of my settlement statement and Hud-1 closing package. Its also a good way to clean it of the credit report. The banks are not working with these short sale offers forcing home owners to foreclose. Him not being licensed is a big concern. Any information you have would be wonderful. I agree one of those staff members does look hookerish.;) Thanks Mmuuaahh

I would like more information on Stuart Vener I had been thinking about going through this program. I am aware that he lets the home go into Foreclosure. I can either walk away or Deed it over to him. When I get another mortgage or fill out that rental application and on the bottom of the app. It asks if I ever filed a Bankruptcy or a Foreclosure I can say No. Because I will have a copy of my settlement statement and Hud-1 closing package. Its also a good way to clean it of the credit report. The banks are not working with these short sale offers forcing home owners to foreclose. Him not being licensed is a big concern. Any information you have would be wonderful. I agree one of those staff members does look hookerish. Thanks Mmuuaahh

Hello,

Quickly looked at the Official Records of Orange Counnty Florida where I live. They are currently in Title to 3 properties. In searching the records they took title to 2 of the properties after the Lis Pendens was filed (start of foreclosure) therefore the deed where they took title is invalid because the Lis Pendens was filed first. Secondly there was no assumption agreement or loan modification filed on any of the three properties. Thirdly, 2 of the three houses have been foreclosed on and they have been lost. It appears it is a major scam. I am not an attorney but have been in real estate title for over 10 years.

Has anyone done this yet?
We are 100K underwater and our lender won't work with us, even though we've never been late and are current with our mortgage. We want to buy another home ASAP because real estate in Michigan is as cheap as double wide trailers. We'll need a mortgage before we are foreclosed on (or transfer to WIlshire).Who is lending to people with the HUD-1 closing documents Wilshire provides?

Has anyone done this yet?
We are 100K underwater and our lender won't work with us, even though we've never been late and are current with our mortgage. We want to buy another home ASAP because real estate in Michigan is as cheap as double wide trailers. We'll need a mortgage before we are foreclosed on (or transfer to WIlshire).Who is lending to people with the HUD-1 closing documents Wilshire provides?

DO NOT use these people! It is a scam, and unfortunately I was scammed by them. They took our money, changed the deed to their name and did nothing. When we finally got a hold of someone, they transferred us to the President of the company. He said that since nothing had been done, they would probobly let the house go into foreclosure. We are signing a release form from them to get our deed back, and losing the $2000 we spent on this so called program. If you are looking to get rid of your home, go to a large realty firm and tell them you want to do a short sale. You pay nothing and in a lot of cases they can get the mortgage company to not make you pay any difference owed. Don't make the same mistake we did.

Hi RADD32,
I was considering using this business and have several personal questions to ask you regarding Wilshire Holding Group Inc.
After reading your previous posts regarding your research I figured it would be best to discuss with you about several key questions I have first before I take any action.

Can anyone please give me a lot more accurate information on Stuart Vener and the Wilshire Holding Group business??

Can anyone please give me alot more accurate information on Stuart Vener and the Wilshire Holding Group business???


What are you looking for? Anything else anyone here knows is available by using Google.

I would like to know if there are any individuals who have used this business and can validate whether this is a complete scam or whether it is legitimate. After searching around on Google I have come across mixed reviews, much of which were negative remarks about the business.

For legal reasons I don't believe anyone here can give you a definitive answer. This is one of those "do your homework and make your own decision" questions.

Sorry but no one wants to post something they can't back up and get sued and every situation is different. What I think and what happened to me might not be what happened to you.

Have you tried your State's Attorney General?

We used wilshire about a year ago and I might as well have just gone into foreclosure myself. My credit is screwed up (theres no fixing it), and I paid wilshire to do it. Don't waste your money. Just go through a trusted company and you'll be better off!

we used wilshire about a year ago and I might as well have just gone into foreclosure myself. my credit is screwed up (theres no fixing it), and I paid wilshire to do it. don't waste your money. just go through a trusted company and youll be better off!


An individual can't put himself into foreclosure. Do you mean bankruptcy?

What company do you consider to be trusted?

Thank you for all of your comments. DO NOT do business with any of Stuart Vener's companies. This is now more than 2 years since we have signed and transferred our timeshare to Timeshare Assistance INC / Wilshire Holding Group. Since then, we have been continuously harassed by our time share company regarding the nonpayment of the bills. The latest bill is $1510.44 from their company. As far as I can see, there has never been any payment made from Stuart Vener's Timeshare Assistance to our timeshare company since our transfer. He and his staff had even told us and emailed us that we are no longer the owner of the timeshare and do not need to pay any bills and to ignore the bills. And that Timeshare Assistance "will take care of it."

We have sent a certified letter and email to Stuart Vener, the owner of Timeshare Assistance, INC on 11/29/2010. We requested within 10 business
Days that he complete the followings:
1. Full payment of all maintenance fees and any other fees due to the timeshare compnay
2. Any necessary steps finalizing the transfer of the Property from Sellers to Timeshare Assistance, Inc.; and
3. Confirmation in writing with me that (1) and (2) above have been finalized.

I have NOT heard from Stuart Vener nor has any of the above actions been undertaken.

In summery, Timeshare Assistance INC was paid more than 2 years ago to transfer our timeshare. Timeshare Assistance has repeatedly assured us during that time that they will proceed with the transfer even though they have never done anything or paid the necessary transfer fees to complete the transfer. Timeshare Assistance INC even told us not to pay any of the bills because Timeshare Assistance would take care of it. Now we owe the maintenance fees for the last 2 years. We are both retired senior citizens, > 65 years old, and on fixed income.

If anyone has any suggestions, we would really appreciate it! Thanks in advance.

I don't believe this statement. Customers know the truth. If you can open your window and throw your money away, then do it because you will be no more and no less screwed in the end.

Well put. My lender had NEVER spoken to them, heard from them or even knew I "sold" the place and I was told not to speak with the lender.
I could have walked away and ruined my credit all on my own!

"The Lender is who decides whether or not you get a 1099 for debt relief or to calls the loan due."

They asked me to send them this but it is not known if they paid it. They abandoned the property as far as the city is concerned.

I would never do it again. It cannot be more clear than that. I paid and I'm paying. Get it?

I can say from experience that I do believe the attorney general will someday chew this guy and his company up and I would never recommend it to someone I like. I actually paid him to ruin my credit.

They aren't going to pay a cent to anyone for anything. They apparently never do.
What JUDYKAYTEE doesn't seem to understand is that people that are finally willing to take a loss do not BEG and PAY for additional distress of being financially ruined by credit damage.
I hope you will find a remedy. For me it was bankruptcy. I had great credit and had to go bankrupt to get this off me. Karma will get this guy. For sure it will.

Judykaytee, why do you think people would pay them, give their houses away, then get permanent damage to credit?
Predators is what they are. You can act like they are business as usual, but that is telling of you, not the ones that READ & ASKED.

I'm truly sorry for your problem. Good fortune in the future and the New Year. When you buy your next home do your homework financially/legally before taking on new obligations. Bankruptcy to repair credit seems extreme. Many hard working Americans have suffered financially over the past several years; but, our country is too strong to let us down and you'll put this behind you and emerge stronger in the future. Regards.

Excellent comments Radd32 and superb research. It IS in the renters interest to know that rent payments are going to who actually owns the property. The alternative is a best case scenario that they are a pawn in the game or worse case that they are party to a crime.
The reason why you get mail that does not have post mark is that the sender is trying to avoid RICO Federal laws. RICO gets organized crime when they use the postal system as their venue of scam communication. If there is no post mark there is no RICO case. If there is no post mark you are being contacted by affiliates in organized crime. The reason why you come across so much evidence of name changes of entities and individuals is because there is a shell game being played in order to avoid prosecution. The criminals can get the property, strip the owners of their equity and leave them homeless yet, once they get the property (if they actually legally did get the property) they also want to preserve a cash flow. By cutting off that cash flow you cut off cash being paid to criminals who almost assuredly do not have the right to collect that cash in the first place. That is the Foreclosure scam 101 brief explanation.

As a renter maybe that is not your concern. A landlord should prove they own the property. It sounds like Wilshire holding is saying that by having the "Deed" they have "possession" of the property. To have true possession of the property they must have physical control of the property to "perfect" their interest in the property. It would be interesting to see that if rent was not paid, but held in an interest bearing account until proof of ownership was given, and see if they try to evict you. A promissory note and deed would be required to prove ownership which, I seriously doubt, these organizations would be able to produce.

What is really going on is that securities are being transacted as property transactions through the court systems. Stock is property and can be discerned as coming under the same laws as real property (a house). It is a game that bankers and their lawyers like to play because it is faster than doing it the legal way. These issues effect all of us because the court systems are being abused and some judges are playing along. The banks that manage pension funds for the local police for example are the one's that have a great deal of power and they will abuse it. Groups of investors buy into the mortgage, it's pooled, and now you have a bunch of people, you may even know or know you who actually own your mortgage and may not have an interest in seeing you retain your home when times get tough for you. Also; Your promissory note is also as good as currency. There was literally nothing from stopping bankers from photocopying that note and selling it again and again and again.

The scam is classic. They use renters, "the front man or woman" to perfect their interest. They then bleed the property of whatever profits they can. Your best bet is to find a home that is paid for and owned by a private individual you know and rent from them.

If you don't want to be a victim of the scams that even the big banks are party to then don't take out loans. When you take a bank loan you are taking on a partner who does not give a damn about you.

I know about the issues because my two homes and my business were stolen from me through the scams I mention. Though I thought I was the sole stock-holder of my business, stock was sold and without me knowing a thing. 15 years of building a multi million dollar company was stripped away from me over night.

The problem is with organized crime which is more prevalent than most want to believe.

To stay abreast for the issues got to the OCC, SEC, FBI and other websites to get the real 411 on mortgage and property scams.