Humans have designed computers, etc. We drive cars instead of horse-drawn wagons. We can call our parents in Wherever, whenever we feel like it. But are we smarter than we were 200 years ago?

Invention is fantastic and 200 years ago there was "nothing" that was dependent on electricity. Now we can watch the news and see what's new. Does that mean that we are more inventive?

Before electricity became commonplace, 90% of women menstruated together when the moon was new. Is this change positive or negative? Is it careful or smart?

Are we more intelligent or simply more able to tell each other how great we are? I live comfortably with both electricity and the rest of today's world. Am I just accustomed to these or would I be better off, living off the land with candles and fat-burning lamps?

It's not our intelligence that has increased so much (although it probably has), it is our 'knowledge' which has increased with every passing year.

Are we better off? I don't know about you, but I kind of like not having to go outside in sub-zero temperature every time to use the bathroom. Now sure how much you enjoy this modern luxury.

I do think our own technology might do us in if we aren't careful. So if that's what you're getting at, I agree.

I don't see how this relates to religious discussions?


How would you be able to quantify smart?

I don't see how this relates to religious discussions?


How would you be able to quantify smart?

Maybe he wants to know if god ever meant for us to have electricity and indoor plumbing? What do you think? And why didn't god ever mention the coming of the internet? Or space exploration, or quantum mechanics? I think he does mention the value of pi in the bible, but got it wrong.

There... I turned it into a religious discussion for you! :)

Maybe he wants to know if god ever meant for us to have electricity and indoor plumbing? What do you think? And why didn't god ever mention the coming of the internet? Or space exploration, or quantum mechanics? I think he does mention the value of pi in the bible, but got it wrong.

There... I turned it into a religious discussion for you! :)
If God told you everything that would ever happen your mind would explode. You can't handle it. That's why He is God.

if God told you everything that would ever happen your mind would explode. You can't handle it. That's why He is God.

But on a serious note...

Don' you find it odd that the bible, which is supposed to be the word of god, makes no mention of manned flight, landing on the moon, cancer, the internet, AIDS, etc. In fact, there isn't a single mention of anything beyond bronze age knowledge. That doesn't strike you as strange coming from an all-knowing, all-powerful, supernatural being? He had a lot to say about worshiping other gods and stoning non-virgin women to death, but nothing about how man should cope in the 21st century.

Then again, it's even stranger still that he hasn't made a cameo in over 2000 years. Do you think bronze age people needed to hear the voice of god more than we do? Did they have more problems in their time than we do? Why did god favor them with all those miracles and leave people like me to doubt, because there isn't a single shred of evidence for me to go on, so now I'll have to spend eternity in hell? Doesn't seem fair to me.

Humans have designed computers, etc. We drive cars instead of horse-drawn wagons. We can call our parents in Wherever, whenever we feel like it. But are we smarter than we were 200 years ago?

Invention is fantastic and 200 years ago there was "nothing" that was dependent on electricity. Now we can watch the news and see what's new. Does that mean that we are more inventive?

Before electricity became commonplace, 90% of women menstruated together when the moon was new. Is this change positive or negative? Is it careful or smart?

Are we more intelligent or simply more able to tell each other how great we are? I live comfortably with both electricity and the rest of today's world. Am I just accustomed to these or would I be better off, living off the land with candles and fat-burning lamps?

Even though man has invented many inventions did you know that there are so many who do without any of the modern conveniences we take for granted.
Poverty Facts and Stats - Global Issues (http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Facts.asp)

I don't know about being smart, even though we have information available to us of the negative effects of alcohol,smoking etc some of us still choose to continue down a path that destroys our physical selves from within.

We have information that by destroying the natural environments around us unnecessarily leads to changes in the eco systems and in turn affect our daily lives,yet we continue to feed our greed and need for money by destroying the very forests,oceans,water resources we depend on.

Yes we have computer,Tv,phone etc,but isn't this also leading to so many health problems too?Some of us spend so much time using these devices that we forget to take care of our bodies,our kids put on weight ,they lose interest in real social interactions and do not realise that there is a world outside virtual reality.

Maybe we need to rethink how we define smart.Maybe we need to find the right balance regarding our dependence on technology.

But on a serious note...
Sorry but I enjoyed savedsinner7's "if God told you everything that would ever happen your mind would explode. You can't handle it. That's why He is God" more.

savedsinner7's post is loaded with mysticism, wild claims, explosions, and unsupported suggestions.
Your reply was only based on logic, reasoning, factual support, actuality, and even archeology.
But if fails completely in the humor department...

Ok back to the topic : you are smarter than SS7 because I think so !

:D ;) :p :rolleyes: :D

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Sorry, this post was not supposed to be on the religious forum. Just be glad you're not like me, twice I have tried to brew coffee by putting unground beans straight into the coffeemaker, once I accidentally put fresh grounds in the carafe. Stuff like that just happens all the time. If I got upset I'd die from stress. Forgive and forget... What?

firmbeliever had some very thought-provoking thoughts. How do we define smart?

I got frustrated reading something on the religious forum about how smart we are today.

The Bible hasn't been updated lately has it? If there is a God she definitely knows how to answer prayers about the internet, or something covers for screw-ups. Maybe we are Gods too. There is evidence of something helping me.

Are we smarter? I don't think so. There are many more opportunities in 2008 to show off our smarts. Hundreds of years ago, musicians composed "pop music"--symphonies and cantatas and oratorios that we still listen to today. (How many people 100s of years from now will be humming "Viva la Vida"?) Thousands of years ago, people built pyramids that we still aren't quite sure about how they did it. Being smart is relative to what one needs to accomplish using available tools.

But are we smarter than we were 200 years ago?
Smarter maybe, but probably not wiser. We have more powerful tools, which means we can do more damage with the same amount of stupidity.


Before electricity became commonplace, 90% of women menstruated together when the moon was new. Is this change positive or negative? Is it careful or smart?Some people think that the onset of puberty is affected by photoperiod and that artificial lighting is responsible for the trend toward earlier puberty.


would I be better off, living off the land with candles and fat-burning lamps?I had a back-to-the-land phase when I was younger, but I sold my soul for hot running water.

If you are defining smarter by what our institutions of learning are turning out these days, the answer is no. We have more information, but less powers of reasoning, as students are not much encouraged to think for themselves. Too often when that happens, the student is punished with a lower grade because he doesn't parrot the professor.
As to the Bible saying anything about modern technology, just how much reading are you willing to do? It says everything we need to know about how to live successfully here and have everlasting life hereafter.

We have more information, but less powers of reasoning, as students are not much encouraged to think for themselves. Too often when that happens, the student is punished with a lower grade because he doesn't parrot the professor.
Sorry, gal, that makes no sense.

Sorry, gal, that makes no sense.

That was my experience in college. Learning how the professor thinks gives a tremendous edge when taking a multiple guess exam. Understanding the person who formulated the test helps weed out the "distractors," the answers that are wrong.

Perhaps essay tests are more difficult to grade because it takes time and effort to evaluate human understanding. Multiple guess is deductive reasoning and parroting.

That was my experience in college. Learning how the professor thinks gives a tremendous edge when taking a multiple guess exam. Understanding the person who formulated the test helps weed out the "distractors," the questions that are wrong.

Perhaps essay tests are more difficult to grade because it takes time and effort to evaluate human understanding. Multiple guess is deductive reasoning and parroting.
I'm sorry you went to such a horrible college.

Your statement made no sense, because the two ideas are mutually exclusive:
1) as students are not much encouraged to think for themselves, 2) the student is punished with a lower grade because he doesn't parrot the professor.
So which is it you want to say? 1) The student doesn't think for himself, or 2) he thinks for himself and gets a lower grade?

"Are we smarter just because we think so?"

Some here THINK and even BELIEVE they are smart(er). But very few are.

:rolleyes:

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The literacy rate is much higher than it was 200 years ago, although still rather pathetic. That is why people in first world countries are smarter... there were few intelligent people in times past, only the nobility and higher religious officials were beneficiaries of higher education, reading, writing and mathematics, and philosophical training. Today, illiteracy is a huge problem worldwide.

Relating this thread to religion, religion is a great enemy of rational thinking and intelligence... religion promotes magical thinking, superstition, passivity, and *belief* in ancient outdated texts instead of *learning* facts and knowledge which is much more difficult... it is harder to be intelligent because it involves work and dedication.

Simone.. when you think like this, just remember that people from previous generations before antibiotics(thanks to medical science) spent a lot of time burying their brothers and sisters, other relatives and friends... that alone rules out yeaterdays as the good ole days! Death was very real and very personal, all the time. :)

Just because a person can read and do higher mathematics does not meant that they are more intelligent than the villiage genius in an illiterate area. Can we identify intelligence only as it is useful in a technological society? Most IQ tests require the person to be able to read which eliminates all illiterate folks from even testing.

What about balance? There are those who are geniuses at programming software who cannot explain what they are doing, to anyone. There are engineers who design bridges beautifully but cannot hold a conversation with a child. Then, what about common sense? Is that measured by an IQ test?

You're right Choux, in the past far fewer people were taught to read and write. That meant that when the Bible was written, very few could read it, or add to it, edit it or contest content. The "educated" controlled the masses, through their own ideas of how Christ should be worshipped. That's not to say that they did it all wrong, but they had absolute power... Does that mean that those who cloistered themselves and put the Bible together were smarter than those whose tithes they collected?

Wondergirl I looked at that sentence and you're right, it contained two opposing concepts. When I first read it my brain automatically corrected it.

Are we "smarter is perhaps not the right question. Maybe what we should be asking is, does this work for the good of the many?

Simone.. I think you missed my points.

Illiterate and uneducated people are ruled by superstition, magical thinking, and assorted nonsense. That does not mean that they are not happier in their interpersonal relationships... they need each other to survive and perhaps, they work better together in that common goal of survival. I don't know.

There is no doubt that a villager in a primarily illiterate society is not as smart as Oxford and Cambridge graduates. However, you can bring up the point that intelligence can be culture specific, but, by definition of intelligence as scope of knowledge and rationality, I don't buy it.

Best wishes, I wasn't trying to irritate you. :)

Most IQ tests require the person to be able to read which eliminates all illiterate folks from even testing.
A good IQ test has no cultural bias and does not require reading, but measures memory, spatial skills, abstract thinking, deduction of relationships, reasoning, etc.

If you have to read, it's an achievement test.

Simoneaugie, Choux , Wondergirl :

Humanity in general gets over time more intelligent. But if they get more happy and mentally stable I doubt...

:rolleyes:

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Humans have designed computers, etc. We drive cars instead of horse-drawn wagons. We can call our parents in Wherever, whenever we feel like it. But are we smarter than we were 200 years ago?

Invention is fantastic and 200 years ago there was "nothing" that was dependent on electricity. Now we can watch the news and see what's new. Does that mean that we are more inventive?

Before electricity became commonplace, 90% of women menstruated together when the moon was new. Is this change positive or negative? Is it careful or smart?

Are we more intelligent or simply more able to tell each other how great we are? I live comfortably with both electricity and the rest of today's world. Am I just accustomed to these or would I be better off, living off the land with candles and fat-burning lamps?


As a whole I think we are " smarter " in terms of our lives in Western society being easier.

We don't have to grow our own food [ we go to the grocery ] or build our own house [ contrators] or start our own fire for warmth or stay in the shade to get away from the heat thanks to central air. We are pretty secure - we don't have to kow how to use a weapon or gun to defend ourselves.

I think we have lost something though. My wife's greatgranfather 84 yo, can grow a garden, fix things, build things, fish, hunt... that is he can survive without electricity, [ that generation lived through the great deppression ] I could not.




I also think there are different types of "smart"

- book smart
- street smart
- business smart
- emotionally smart

etc...




Good question:)

As a whole I think we are " smarter " in terms of our lives in Western society being easier.
Smarter? Is exploiting others "smarter" in your book ?
I thought you claim to be a Christian. Did Jesus not teach his version of socialism in his time? Did Jesus sell bread and fish, or share bread and fish ? Did Jesus exploit others by letting them sell or share that bread or fish ?

Just asking...

:D ;) :p :rolleyes: :D

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[QUOTE=Choux]simone.. I think you missed my points.

Illiterate and uneducated people are ruled by superstition, magical thinking, and assorted nonsense. That does not mean that they are not happier in their interpersonal relationships... they need each other to survive and perhaps, they work better together in that common goal of survival. I don't know. [quote]

I find your attitude somewhat arrogant. I definitely believe in The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, and yet I am certainly not illiterate, and am not ruled by superstition, magical thinking and assorted nonsense! Your statement is nonsense and your refusal to admit that you are ruled by your beliefs (just like everyone else) shows how blind you are in some ways.

Ps 111:10
10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
(KJV)

Prov 9:10
10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
(KJV)

What is the difference between wisdom and intelligence?

What is the difference between wisdom and intelligence?
According to some psychologists:
* A wise person can discern the core of important problems.
* A wise person has self-knowledge.
* A wise person seems sincere and direct with others.
* Others ask wise people for advice.
* A wise person's actions are consistent with his/her ethical beliefs.

Intelligence is having knowledge, smarts, abilities, skills.

I'd say the difference between the two is discernment. I could be intelligent but not wise. On the other hand, I could be wise without being very intelligent--or could I?

simone..., I think you missed my points.

Illiterate and uneducated people are ruled by superstition, magical thinking, and assorted nonsense. That does not mean that they are not happier in their interpersonal relationships.....they need each other to survive and perhaps, they work better together in that common goal of survival. I don't know.

There is no doubt that a villager in a primarily illiterate society is not as smart as Oxford and Cambridge graduates. However, you can bring up the point that intelligence can be culture specific, but, by definition of intelligence as scope of knowledge and rationality, I don't buy it.

Best wishes, I wasn't trying to irritate you. :)
So how do you account for someone with a 138 IQ, a college degree,and follows Jesus?

Yes, discernment.

Discernment is paramount to making decisions that help others. Some discern that Jesus is the Way, Truth and Light. Others seek concrete proof before placing steadfast belief in anything. Among those two groups some decide that it's important to help their fellow human beings. The ones who choose only to help themselves live in fear. Of course they deny that the fear exists within themselves, because it's mixed with shame. Shame is pretty tough to admit... The truth will set you free?

Smarter? Is exploiting others "smarter" in your book ?
I thought you claim to be a Christian. Did Jesus not teach his version of socialism in his time? Did Jesus sell bread and fish, or share bread and fish ? Did Jesus exploit others by letting them sell or share that bread or fish ?

Just asking ....

:D ;) :p :rolleyes: :D

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Just asking... but what the heck are you asking?

Jesus took a boy's lunch, and after He blessed it, He broke it and fed thousands of people, then took up basketfuls that were leftover for the boy to take back home.

And yes that's just what I believe, that's my belief, it's not a proven fact. It is based on faith, which without faith it is impossible to please God, so I am glad I cannot 'prove' it to you, because I would rather please God than man.

The puzzle of learning new things and gaining more knowledge, is laid out before us, we just have to fit the pieces together.

The puzzle of learning new things and gaining more knowledge, is laid out before us, we just have to fit the pieces together.Doesn't learning new things gain us more knowledge? How is it a puzzle?

What I meant was every thing that give us more knowledge, is around us but not always obvious... therefore a puzzle, we just have to find the pieces, to reveal the answers.


Hope that makes better sense to you.

I kind of took it as a whole different aspect...

I personally don't think we're smarter. We're as smart as we are in that moment... if that made any sense?

I'm sure the first caveman that invented the wheel... their society thought they were brilliant. When the lightbulb was introduced, they hailed Edison a genius and thought that innovations could NOT get any better. We think we're really brilliant now, but I'm sure people 200+ years down the road will think that we were actually cavemen.

Leave it to sneezy to put it into a nutshell. Thanks.

....but I'm sure people 200+ years down the road will think that we were actually cavemen.
If one sees the US bull run amok in porcelain cupboards all over the world, I know who presently the actual cavemen are...

"Will there be any civilized people left in 200 years from now"? Is the real question...

;)

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Now, civilized is wiping, instead of shaking it all over the walls... Isn't it?

Civilized! I'm hoping the proverbial pendulum will swing back to the days of Palmer Penmanship and diagramming sentences and sending thank-you notes and not texting while walking or driving and being parents (not buddies) to children... I could go on and on.

I think we have enough new inventions now for a while. Let's stop inventing things and enjoy what we have.

Are we smarter? I don't think so. There are many more opportunities in 2008 to show off our smarts. Hundreds of years ago, musicians composed "pop music"--symphonies and cantatas and oratorios that we still listen to today. (How many people 100s of years from now will be humming "Viva la Vida"?) Thousands of years ago, people built pyramids that we still aren't quite sure about how they did it. Being smart is relative to what one needs to accomplish using available tools.

Good response Wonder... :)

Ok than : if current natural developments continue on the same scale : "will there be any (civilized) people left in 200 years from now"? Is the (real) question...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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The work of Aristotle, Plato, Socrates or Archimedes are almost general knowledge to people today. The cutting edge things that Newton did are learned by 16 year olds. But can anyone really say that they are smarter than these people? I don't think so.

The difference between us and them? We have greater technology and further build up of knowledge from previous generations. It's like a snowball. Plato's the little tennis ball sized ball at the top, Newton's a bigger ball part way down, we're a bigger still ball even further down.

And look how much hill we still have left to roll down!

... But can anyone really say that they are smarter than these people? I don't think so.
For sure we have (almost) all more knowledge than the average individual had in previous generations.
But unless "smarter" is specified clearly, no general line can be drawn from that increased knowledge to an increase in being "smarter"...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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For sure we have (almost) all more knowledge than the average individual had in previous generations.
But unless "smarter" is specified clearly, no general line can be drawn from that increased knowledge to an increase in being "smarter" ...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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You're not going to believe this Cred. On this point, I AGREE with you. Wonders never cease!

You're not gonna believe this Cred. On this point, I AGREE with you. Wonders never cease!There has to be a mistake somewhere in my statement !

:D :D :D :D :D

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