Having our bad slate roof removed, re-sheeted with osb and dimensional asphalt shingles and new gutters and downspouts. We are keeping existing soffit and fascia. Job has already been started.

Roofer told me today that with the type of gutter hanger he is using (I believe they are hidden type hangers), the hanger would have to sit partially on the drip edge and would cause a gap which he says would not look good. He says he would rather not use the drip edge where the gutters are and he would give the shingles a 2" overhang into gutters. He would use drip edge on all other area of house where no gutters are being installed.

Does this sound alright?

Is a 2" overhang too much?

Thanks in advance!

About 1/2 to 5/8" is reccomended for the overhang. 2" does create the possibility of wind lifting the shingles.

If you do the job right, using ice and water shield for the first, I forget the number, but it's like somewhere between 24 and 36" from the inside wall, the drip edge would not cause a problem at all since the ice and water shield attaches to the drip edge. It's adhesive backed.

There is also three methods to do the first course. 1) invoves cutting the shingles, 2) involves a double layer of shinges (less wind resistance) and 3) involves using a starter strip. The starter strip has a layer of adhesive on it. When you cut and invert it, the shingles, you make sure the adhesive strip is present.

I don't like it. I'm pretty sure using the ice and water shield you won't have a problem. Some shingle installations will not be warrentied without the ice and water shield.

Two inches of shingle overhanging the gutter is going to make cleaning the gutters extremely difficult if not impossible. If I had reason to be concerned about water getting between the gutter and the fascia, I'd slip a piece of aluminum flashing up under the drip edge and let it cover the fascia. Then install the gutter. Indeed, this is what I did when I replaced the roof and gutters on a piece of rental property. As far as appearance, you are not going to see the drip edge from the ground.

Thanks for the reply. Roofer is only using ice/water shield in valleys, no place else.

Also, he is doing the roof in sections so he won't leave the house open to elements, but some recent sections he has worked on look like he shingled them all the way to the peak, but the first course looks like it hasn't been laid yet. I know this sounds weird and hard to picture, but the entire section is shingled all the way to peak, but you can see the osb and felt paper where it meets the fascia (a negative overhang if you will). I am assuming he is doing this so the overhang does not get messed up while climbing the roof until he gets the gutter up, but is this the norm to do it this way?





about 1/2 to 5/8" is reccomended for the overhang. 2" does create the possibility of wind lifting the shingles.

If you do the job right, using ice and water shield for the first, I forget the number, but it's like somewhere between 24 and 36" from the inside wall, the drip edge would not cause a problem at all since the ice and water shield attaches to the drip edge. It's adhesive backed.

There is also three methods to do the first course. 1) invoves cutting the shingles, 2) involves a double layer of shinges (less wind resistance) and 3) involves using a starter strip. The starter strip has a layer of adhesive on it. When you cut and invert it, the shingles, you make sure the adhesive strip is present.

I don't like it. I'm pretty sure using the ice and water shield you won't have a problem. Some shingle installations will not be warrentied without the ice and water shield.

Actually he is not using any drip edge at the gutters, that is what I am questioning on whether that is OK or not. We wants to do a 2" shingle overhang instead of the dripedge.



Two inches of shingle overhanging the gutter is going to make cleaning the gutters extremely difficult if not impossible. If I had reason to be concerned about water getting between the gutter and the facia, I'd slip a piece of aluminum flashing up under the drip edge and let it cover the facia. Then install the gutter. Indeed, this is what I did when I replaced the roof and gutters on a piece of rental property.

I guess it all depends on the pitch. The drip edge would keep any water clinging to the shingle from running back to the fascia if you have a low pitch roof. May not be necessary but I don't see what objections would be other than a little cost. I wouldn't let shingles hang over gutters 2". Gutters hard enought to clean as it is. If you only have 3" of a 5" gutter to get leaves out its going to be a real pain. Also make installing any leaf guards practically inpossible.

Thanks for your input. I think I will tell the roofer to decrease the overhang to 1" or should I go less?

Our original contract calls for drip edge throughout, but he says there would be some sort of gap if he used the drip edge at the gutters because the hidden gutter hangers would sit partially on the drip edge and wouldn't look right. I am not entirely sure what he means by this. I'm just concerned that the osb will get wet and rot if no drip edge is put up.







I guess it all depends on the pitch. The drip edge would keep any water clinging to the shingle from running back to the facia if you have a low pitch roof. May not be necessary but I don't see what objections would be other than a little cost. I wouldn't let shingles hang over gutters 2". Gutters hard enought to clean as it is. If you only have 3" of a 5" gutter to get leaves out its going to be a real pain. Also make installing any leaf guards practically inpossible.

1" sounds about right. Don't know what kind of hangers he is using. If drip edge interfears with gutters, lower gutters or cut off some of the drip edge to make it flush with bottom surface of OSB.

What's the pitch of the roof?

The type of hangers he said are called "hidden gutter hangers". I'm not sure why he can't make adjustments to make the drip edge fit up there with these type of hangers. He said if I want the drip edge, I would have to use the type of gutter hangers that strap over the shingles on the outside and can be seen very easily. These do not look good to me. I am not sure of the roof pitch, attached is a picture of the house as we bought it before construction started that shows the roof lines.


http://home.comcast.net/~sk77/house1.jpg



1" sounds about right. Don't know what kind of hangers he is using. If drip edge interfears with gutters, lower gutters or cut off some of the drip edge to make it flush with bottom surface of OSB.

Whats the pitch of the roof?

Let him demonstrate on scrap lumber what I would look like. Sheathing+drip+Ice/water+hanger+6" of gutter.

Not a bad idea, I think I will try that tomorrow. If he already started with a 2" overhang in some places (not sure if he got to that point today or not), can he cut down the overhang a little to get it to 1"?






Let him demonstrate on scrap lumber what I would look like. sheathing+drip+Ice/water+hanger+6" of gutter.

If it's a 2" overhang, ask him if he would clean the gutters every year.

That looks like about a 5 in 12 pitch. A drip edge might not be necesssary. The biggest problem I see is that the fascia is not perpendicular or plumb. All gutter straps or hangers I have seen are attached to the fascia. In reality attached to the ends of the rafters. I can see that some other type might be necessary since the fascia is not plumb. Again, I'm having problem with why drip edge can't be installed and then gutter hangers, which appearently are attached to roof, installed over drip edge.

I just noticed that down spouts are in place. Are gutters there? I'm assuming standard 5" seamless aluminum gutters. Are speaking of some different type of gutter system?

:)


If it's a 2" overhang, ask him if he would clean the gutters every year.

The picture shows the house with the slate roof and box gutters that are being removed. The existing downspouts shown in picture are also being removed and replaced as well. The type of gutter he said he was putting up was Alcoa 320 gauge seamless, I'm assuming it to be 5" as well.







I just noticed that down spouts are in place. Are gutters there? I'm assuming standard 5" seamless aluminum gutters. Are speaking of some different type of gutter system?

How is your leave problem?
What kind of leaves are they?
Are you planning any leaf guards in the future?

What's yout downspount size? You can potentially avoid a lot of leaf problems by increasing the downspout size and/or installing "The Wedge".

If you want a new toy, you can always purchase the remote controlled gutter robot from iRobot Corporation: Home Page (http://www.irobot.com)

I do not think I would have a leaf problem, not sure yet though. As of now, I'm not planning on getting leaf guards. I am assuming my downspouts are to be 2 x 3, I could be wrong though.

I did talk to roofer today and when I asked him to show me what the gap would look like on scrap material, he tried, but couldn't explain it properly. He then said that if I would like the drip edge with the hidden hangers, he would do it and make it work.

I also questioned him about the 2" shingle overhang and he said we was referring to the amount of shingle hanging over the osb, not the amount of shingle going in gutter. He said he would extend the shingle about 1/2" past drip edge near gutters and cut it flush with drip edge on gable ends.

I also asked him why he was roofing entire sections to peak, but I can still see the first few inches of osb/felt near fascia and he said because he didn't have the gutter hangers up yet or drip edge and he didn't want the shingles hanging over fascia and get damaged. He said once the drip edge and gutters are up, we will put in that last row of shingles.

I've never seen it done like this before, anyone else?








How is your leave problem?
What kind of leaves are they?
Are you planning any leaf guards in the future?

What's yout downspount size? You can potentially avoid a lot of leaf problems by increasing the downspout size and/or installing "The Wedge".

If you want a new toy, you can always purchase the remote controlled gutter robot from iRobot Corporation: Home Page (http://www.irobot.com)

Very odd. He must go to a very different school.

The hidden hangers I'm familiar with basically screw into the fascia on a slight angle.

You know what might be happening, His drip edge might be too wide. They come in about a 1 inch wide size and these would not interfere at all and possibly smaller, but if they were wider, they very much would. The gutter mounts below the drip edge. Even at 1" and a 5/8 piece of sheathing, that leaves 3/8 of an inch. So the gutter goes down 3/8 of an inch.

If it's 2" or 6", you have a real problem.

1" drip edge at Lowe's
Drip Edge Aluminum White 4 1/2"x1"x10' (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=11688-18591-WHA1F45TSRE&lpage=none)

Hello,

Thanks for your reply. What exactly do you mean by "gutter goes down 3/8 of an inch" and "If it's 2" or 6", you have a real problem."

I apologize, I do not know too much about roofs or gutters at this point.





Even at 1" and a 5/8 piece of sheathing, that leaves 3/8 of an inch. So the gutter goes down 3/8 of an inch.

If it's 2" or 6", you have a real problem.

The drip edge has a verticle section. That is available in various lenghts from 1" to maybe 6" long. It also has a fixed section that goes under the shingles and the length doesn't matter.

A drip edge is a little fancier than a 90 deg bend, but for all intents and purposes for this discusson, assume that is what it is. About 4" that goes under the shingle and some distance X that folds over the edge.

Assume X is 1". Roof thickness is 5/8" of an inch. 1" minus 5/8 = 3/8". Thus 3/8 of an inch of the drip edge extends below the edge of the roof. The top of the gutter, then buts up against this. This puts the gutter 3/8" of an inch below the bottom edge of the roof.

If that overhand was 2", the gutter would be 2" minus 5/8" or 1 and 3/8. In this case the gutter would be 1 and 3/8 of an inch below the bottom edge of the roof and that would not look good at all.

Make sense?

I'd have to measure what the stuff I used last year was.

Aside:
The tar paper or ice and water shield goes ON TOP OF the drip edge portion that goes on top of the roof.

The drip edge actually extends the roof line by about 1/4", but it mounts flush against the thichness of the plywood. It ten goes down X distance and has a small outward bend to it, so water is directed away, rather than under the roof.

Got it! Thanks for the explanation. :)



The drip edge has a verticle section. That is available in various lenghts from 1" to maybe 6" long. It also has a fixed section that goes under the shingles and the length doesn't matter.

A drip edge is a little fancier than a 90 deg bend, but for all intents and purposes for this discusson, assume that is what it is. About 4" that goes under the shingle and some distance X that folds over the edge.

Assume X is 1". Roof thickness is 5/8" of an inch. 1" minus 5/8 = 3/8". Thus 3/8 of an inch of the drip edge extends below the edge of the roof. The top of the gutter, then buts up against this. This puts the gutter 3/8" of an inch below the bottom edge of the roof.

If that overhand was 2", the gutter would be 2" minus 5/8" or 1 and 3/8. In this case the gutter would be 1 and 3/8 of an inch below the bottom edge of the roof and that would not look good at all.

Make sense?

I'd have to measure what the stuff I used last year was.

Aside:
The tar paper or ice and water shield goes ON TOP OF the drip edge portion that goes on top of the roof.

The drip edge actually extends the roof line by about 1/4", but it mounts flush against the thichness of the plywood. It ten goes down X distance and has a small outward bend to it, so water is directed away, rather than under the roof.

OK, I decided that the only way to do this is to go and take a picture of what I did.

This is "the impossible".

Hidden hangers + seamless gutter + Ice&water + 7/8" drip edge.

No problem.

Are your hangers attached behind the drip edge?





OK, I decided that the only way to do this is to go and take a picture of what I did.

This is "the impossible".

Hidden hangers + seamless gutter + Ice&water + 7/8" drip edge.

No problem.

I did an earlier post that appears to have gotten lost. I probably forgot to hit the send button.

That post basically said that no, I have not heard of a roofer doing it his way. His way seems like a lot more work. If he is willing to do it this way to protect his shingles he must be very conscientious about his work.

However, if this is the type of "hidden" hanger he is using, he needs to just do the shingles (with drip edge) and let the gutter man hang the gutters.

Don't see any conflict between the drip edge and the gutter.

Are your hangers attached behind the drip edge?

Not really, but the drip edge (7/8" dimension) limits the position of the gutter. 7/8" doesn't really limit it at all, but a 1.5" drip edge would.

Here is some dimensions that are large:

Open Angle Drip Edge (http://www.constructionmetals.com/Flashing/oa_drip.html)

Hey guys,

Roof was just finished and I posted a new question recently with pictures showing some possible issues. Could you possibly take a peak and give me your thoughts?

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/exterior-home-improvement/roof-installed-professionally-completed-pics-240932.html


Thanks in advance!