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orange
Mar 28, 2006, 09:27 PM
At synagogue recently there was a reading from the Torah about the age of Noah when he died. It said that he lived to be 950 years old. Afterwards I read some other passages from Genesis and lots of other people had super long lives, too.

So:

Did people just live longer then? Or,
Did they use a different calendar for years? Or,
Was it not meant to be taken literally? Or,
Was it maybe even gematriya (code)?

I realize there are probably a lot of differing opinions but I'm very interested to hear about this, thanks.

Err the Board has censored the Hebrew name for Genesis, Bere****, LOL! It's spelled B-e-r-e-s-h-i-t, and roughly pronounced as "bear-ray-sheet", in case anyone is interested.

Fr_Chuck
Mar 28, 2006, 09:34 PM
Using such lanagage, (shaking head) and around children

But it is believed that because man was closer to creation, and closer to Adam, he was more physcially pure and perfect ( not perfect) but better than we are today.

So he could live longer. After the flood, I believe the life span was to be set at about 125 but I am not sure where that is.

So man today does not live to 125 today ( more today but because of science not because of mans real better health)

No one knows for sure how long Adam lived ( we have an idea after he was out of the garden, but no one knows how long he was in the garden)

orange
Mar 28, 2006, 09:46 PM
using such lanagage, (shaking head) and around children

LOL. Thanks Fr Chuck.

That's actually a pretty cool explanation. It makes sense too, in the sense that when I read further, I noticed that Abraham only lived 175 years. So by that time people were living shorter lives. The immortality or closeness to G-d or whatever was wearing off. I'm not sure if I believe it or not, but I think it's neat that people could live that long, kind of reminds me of the Elves in the Lord of the Rings. :p

Nez
Mar 29, 2006, 03:05 AM
Sorry to go off track,but as a side note,at the time of Jesus,the average Roman soldier,25 years service,numerous battles,full health care,pension... yes... even that... had a life average of 35-40 years maximum.Apparently it did not help that lead was widely used in a lot of their products.
It is interesting that Bible characters seemed to live to be "odd ages".Maybe the translation was lost,or how it should be interpreted.Noone could possibly live to be 950 years old,as the human bodies cell decay rate,would prohibit such a happening.However there is more than enough evidence,to suggest that these people existed,and were not simply figments of some spiritual teachers imagination.

RickJ
Mar 29, 2006, 03:28 AM
The books of the Old Testament have many different styles: poetry, parables, proverbs, history, legal, symbolic, etc.

It is not always easy to tell what is what... especially in Genesis and Exodus.

We just do not know whether those ages are to be taken literal or not.

fredg
Mar 29, 2006, 06:27 AM
Hi, Orange,
Another opinion.
Roman Soldiers were not Christians, in the sense that they were Baptized, and accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior. They did not have the Grace of God.
So, I believe the ages, because I am a believer in Christ.

NeedKarma
Mar 29, 2006, 06:48 AM
Fred, are you saying that because they weren't christian there didn't live as long? Like some sort of punishment? Do all christian people feel this way?

ScottGem
Mar 29, 2006, 08:51 AM
Hi, Orange,
Another opinion.
Roman Soldiers were not Christians, in the sense that they were Baptized, and accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior. They did not have the Grace of God.
So, I believe the ages, because I am a believer in Christ.

First, this is just another example of intolerance. To state that a non Christian would not live as long as a Christian even in those days, is ridiculous.

Second, the ages referred to are listed in the OLD TESTAMENT (Genesis to be exact). So what does a belief in Christ have to do with believing those ages? By the time of Christ, life spans were much, much shorter for all peoples.

Nez
Mar 29, 2006, 09:59 AM
My two sisters are not christians,nor is my father.Only me,my wife,and my mother are baptists.My six year old son,some weeks he comes to church,sometimes he does not,and stays with either myself or Sally at home.He has not been baptised.That choice is his when he is older,and able to understand.If he "grows out of church",so be it.
So that makes him,my two sisters,and my father,like the Roman soldiers then,and all will only live to be 35-40?
Er... my father is 68.

orange
Mar 29, 2006, 11:05 AM
Wow... thanks for all the comments.

I also don't think that people live longer or shorter lives because of their beliefs. And as Scott mentioned, I'm speaking of the Old Testament here, before Christ. If you look at Genesis 5, everyone lived an extremely long time, whether they were good or bad. And at the time of Jesus, I don't think the Romans were dying off early and Jesus' followers were living way longer. If that was the case, the Romans probably wouldn't have been able to occupy and conquer all the countries that they did. Everyone had shorter lifespans in those days.

My grandmother lived to be 96, and she was a Jewish communist and staunch atheist. She got pregnant with her first child before she was married (a huge scandal in those days!) and ran off with a gentile man who was fighting in the Spanish Civil War. Her brother, who was a very devout religious Jew, so devout that he was opposed to the creation of the State of Israel without the Messiah, died in his early 40s. Was G-d punishing my great uncle for being so devout and rewarding my grandmother for not believing in Him and living so freely?? That doesn't make much sense. Have any of you read the book, "When Bad Things Happen to Good People" by Rabbi Harold Kushner? It's a really excellent book which explains, in Kushner's opinion, why people suffer in the world. Basically, even though he believes in G-d, he thinks bad things are random and can happen to anyone. And I agree with that.

NeedKarma
Mar 30, 2006, 07:36 AM
First, this is just another example of intolerance. To state that a non Christian would not live as long as a Christian even in those days, is ridiculous.

Second, the ages referred to are listed in the OLD TESTAMENT (Genesis to be exact). So what does a belief in Christ have to do with believing those ages? By the time of Christ, life spans were much, much shorter for all peoples.If I were a 16 year old gamer I would say here that he was p0wn3d!

jduke44
Mar 30, 2006, 02:43 PM
Did people just live longer then? Or,
Did they use a different calendar for years? Or,
Was it not meant to be taken literally? Or,
Was it maybe even gematriya (code)?


1) yes, I believe so
2) possibly
3) I don't believe so
4) I doubt it

Wow, this ended up being a loaded question?

I think that possibly the air was cleaner and they didn't have the crap that we have today. Everything was pure back then (except the water) and they ate more purer foods and their diets were more nutritious as a whole. I amnot sure of the drastic change in ages from almost 1000 to being only 100-150 yrs old. This did seem to happen after the flood. I have ideas but don't care to get into that right now because I don't have proof of it. Maybe someone else can expand on that.


Fred, are you saying that because they weren't christian there didn't live as long? Like some sort of punishment? Do all christian people feel this way?

Need, I don't necessarily believe this way. However, I do believe that some people's lives could be cut short for one reason or another. I also do believe that God does heal people.

orange
Mar 30, 2006, 11:39 PM
Thanks for your input, jduke!


Wow, this ended up being a loaded question?

Yeah no kidding!! I thought it was a pretty straightforward non-controversial question actually lol.


I think that possibly the air was cleaner and they didn't have the crap that we have today. Everything was pure back then (except the water) and they ate more purer foods and their diets were more nutritious as a whole. I amnot sure of the drastic change in ages from almost 1000 to being only 100-150 yrs old. This did seem to happen after the flood. I have ideas but don't care to get into that right now because I don't have proof of it. Maybe someone else can expand on that.

Yeah that's a good theory. Also the earth was much more sparsely populated, and people didn't travel far, so there wasn't the spread of infectious diseases that there is today. And no global warming, climate change, or depletion of the ozone, etc. And who knows, maybe the water was even purer back then. It wouldn't have any pollutants, anyhow.

The reason I was wondering about the code was, I was thinking of 666 in the New Testament, which a lot of people consider to be gematriya or code. But then later on I realized duh that was a name not an age...

I did a little more research on my own, and also asked the rabbi at the synagogue about the long lives, and it seems that traditionally, Christians, Jews and Muslims all believe that people lived longer then. Of course there are more modern theories I'm assuming (although no one has elaborated on them yet, and I can't find anything online, either!). But it's interesting that all three religions basically share the same traditional belief about this.

JoeCanada76
Mar 31, 2006, 02:49 AM
Hello Orange,

Very interesting. There are some who believe that giants existed in the bible days. Or some people consider them other gods. As far as living to 900 and something's. That is hard for me to grasp and always was hard for me to grasp. Although since creation just started and there were not as many people, no pollution, more pure creation then I guess those things contributed to a long life. Although, I do believe that it is possible that calendars and years and months were counted differently. I do believe that the months and years were shorter and that would explain a record of a higher year life. That explanation makes more sense to me.

Now a days we are lucky to live to our nineties, and not many people hit that 100 mark even with all the medical advancement and so called better living conditions.

I have a suggestion, which most people know it is not in the number but how you live your daily life to the fullest, but humans have always wanted to record, days, months, hours, minutes and years and so forth. I think if it benefits our spirit, mind and body. May I suggest to the government we shorten the months, shorten the years and then if we do that we all could start living until we are 900 years old. Whoo hooo, solutions. Although I always said I do not want to live past 100 because I would rather die and see what the next life has to offer!! Wink Wink.

Excellent Questions again. I really do enjoy them.

Joe

orange
Mar 31, 2006, 12:31 PM
Thanks Joe, I'm glad you like the questions. I really enjoy reading everyone's responses, while the kids are at karate! :p

Someone suggested to me that another explanation of the long lives was, that it was an ancient way to show what a good life the person had led, by saying that they lived so long. At least that's a popular theory apparently. And Cain, who was supposed to be the "bad" son of Adam... his age is not mentioned at all, so that seems to work with the theory.

DrJ
Mar 31, 2006, 01:20 PM
I will have to look it up for the resource, but I am sure I can find it. My brother used to have a set of videos that went into a deep study of these times. I believe part of their explanation as to how man was able to live so much longer had to do with the ozone.

Aparently, before the floods with Noah, there was quite a different chemical makeup of the ozone. I remember them saying something about a thin layer of Au, which is Gold. Sounds a little strange but they had actually done some extensive scientifical research. Anyway, this blocked out a lot of UVs I guess and really slowed the wear and tear on the human body.

I'll have to ask my brother and find out who these guys were or where we can find their studies.

jduke44
Mar 31, 2006, 01:37 PM
DrJizzle, I am glad you brought that out. That was the thing I decided to leave because I had no proof. That is actually what I was alluding to when I said "cleaner air". I heard something about that but was going to sound to wacky of answer to explain without having the proof. If you do get a chance please let us know. I think that is an interesting and even probable reason.

orange
Mar 31, 2006, 07:42 PM
Oh thanks to you too then, jduke! I thought you just meant the air was less polluted. That gold theory sounds very very cool. Like sci fi cool, haha. Lots of science fiction has eventually turned into science fact. And yes Dr. Jizzle please post more about this if you are able to. Whether one believes in it or not, it sounds fascinating!

Style
Apr 1, 2006, 12:39 AM
LOL. Thanks Fr Chuck.

That's actually a pretty cool explanation. It makes sense too, in the sense that when I read further, I noticed that Abraham only lived 175 years. So by that time people were living shorter lives. The immortality or closeness to G-d or whatever was wearing off. I'm not sure if I believe it or not, but I think it's neat that people could live that long, kind of reminds me of the Elves in the Lord of the Rings. :p

Personally I think it's a different calendar system,because I believe we live in a more immoral society today,yet due to increases in medicine and such we have much longer lives than say 100 years ago

ScottGem
Apr 1, 2006, 04:35 AM
personally I think it's a different calendar system

I'm inclined to go along with that. The calendars that we use today were not in existence at that time. So who is to say what constituted a year?

Nez
Apr 1, 2006, 04:44 AM
I'm not totally convinced about the ozone.Volcanoes still exploded,methane swamps,animals,etc. :D
Personally I do not believe that the human body is designed to live beyond a certain age.Cell degregation being the main concern.Yes we are livng in the so-called modern age,with pollution,stress,and other variables.I tend to agree with Style,and Scott,in that how people "used" the calender count,might have been different.Still,as Joe said,living to 900 might be nice,if I could avoid the boredom.

ScottGem
Apr 1, 2006, 04:49 AM
I'm not totally convinced about the ozone.Volcanoes still exploded,methane swamps,animals,etc. :D
Personally I do not believe that the human body is designed to live beyond a certain age.Cell degregation being the main concern.Yes we are livng in the so-called modern age,with pollution,stress,and other variables.I tend to agree with Style,and Scott,in that how people "used" the calender count,might have been different.Still,as Joe said,living to 900 might be nice,if I could avoid the boredom.

I think Nez's point about the cell degradation is very important. That aging occurs and cells degrade is a fact of physical law. It can be measured. While it might vary from organism to organism, there is an range. Given that scientific fact, I think it makes more sense that ways of measuring time have changed.

orange
Apr 1, 2006, 09:35 AM
Yeah I agree with the cell degeneration theory as well. My first degree was in Zoology, so I guess I should be defending this more! :p Still, the other theories are intriguing to me, from the point of view of someone who loves science fiction!

I wondered about them using a different calendar or a different definition of years, but I can't seem to find any theories on that, and I've done a lot of searching online. If anyone finds anything please post it here, as I am fascinated by calendars. Obviously they would not have used the Jewish calendar, as that was not used until much later, and Noah wasn't a Jew anyway. I would think, though, that they would use approximately the same year as we do now. Ancient peoples such as the Sumerians were able to measure the seasons and years in quite sophisticated ways. But I guess Noah was even before them, so who knows.

I did find another modern theory which I thought was interesting and made some sense. Appparently the story of Noah is very similar to (and some say is derived from) a story in early Mesopotamian mythology, about a man called Gilgamesh. Apparently Gilgamesh survived a great flood, and as a reward from the gods, was granted immortality. The immortality part would explain Noah's extremely long life.

DrJ
Apr 1, 2006, 11:03 AM
Hmmmm... Im having a hard time buying the calendar difference. That is A LOT of difference. How could their calendar year be 1/10 less than ours? Even the old Hebrew Calendar had 12 months of 30 days. It was all lunar based back... so I could see if they counted a year as a full lunar cycle (which would put ages between 30-75 or so) but that seems ridiculous to think that the verbage was confused so quickly through time. I don't know how far back the Hebrew Calendar goes but it definitely dated back well into the Old Testament.

Cell degeneration is a good point... but that could also be contributed to the atmoshperic makeup. Everything is subject to its environment and if our environment was severely different, isn't easily possible that we could be living considerable longer, or shorter, lives?

ScottGem
Apr 1, 2006, 04:01 PM
Hmmmm.... Im having a hard time buying the calendar difference. That is A LOT of difference. How could their calendar year be 1/10 less than ours? Even the old Hebrew Calendar had 12 months of 30 days. It was all lunar based back... so I could see if they counted a year as a full lunar cycle (which would put ages between 30-75 or so) but that seems ridiculous to think that the verbage was confused so quickly thru time. I dont know how far back the Hebrew Calendar goes but it definitely dated back well into the Old Testament.

Cell degeneration is a good point... but that could also be contributed to the the atmoshperic makeup. Everything is subject to its environment and if our environment was severly different, isnt easily possible that we could be living considerable longer, or shorter, lives??

The Hebrew Calendar is in year 5766. I can understand what you are saying, but there is still no clue how they did things. Did they understand lunar phases, season changes, the orbit around the Sun? We really have no idea, maybe their years were one lunar month.

orange
Apr 1, 2006, 05:28 PM
A year in the Hebrew calendar (which is a lunar-solar calendar) is approximately the same length as a year in the Gregorian calendar. There are 12 "regular" months and one extra "leap" month used every few years. All of the months are 29 or 30 days long. So a person's age according to the Hebrew calendar would not be very different than that of someone measuring their age in our calendar. It certainly wouldn't be a difference of several hundred years.

If we used the month as year theory, the people mentioned in Genesis 5 would have lived fairly normal lifespans. For example, Adam 77 years, his son Seth, 76 years, his descendents Enosh and Jared 75 and 80 years respectively, and Noah would have lived 79 years. However, this only works in early Genesis. By the time we get to Abraham, if we continue with the lunar month as a year, Abraham would only have lived to be 14 lol. But it seems to make sense for Genesis 5 anyway!

Actually I think someone could do a whole doctoral thesis on this topic! :p

Starman
Apr 3, 2006, 10:44 PM
The lifespans mentioned in Genesis are pitiful in comparison to the eternity that Adam and Eve were designed to live. The reason that these lifespans seem great to us is because we have slipped even further down the physical deterioration continuum since then.

Notice also how quickly the lifespans dropped after the Noachian Flood.

ttzippe85
Apr 4, 2006, 08:47 AM
The andeluvian people (pre-flood) were bigger in stature and intelligence. They also lived much longer than we do. However this intelligence and long life span enabled the unrighteous to do much more evil in their lifetime.This is one of the reasons God allowed Noah to eat meat on the ark. The eating of meat has deteriorated the condition of man and shortened our lifespan.

NeedKarma
Apr 4, 2006, 09:13 AM
The eating of meat has deteriorated the condition of man and shortened our lifespan.On the contrary - the eating of meat has allowed man to survive. What about all the other meat eating animals? Are they doomed too? I don't think so. Your rhetoric is faulty.

orange
Apr 4, 2006, 12:58 PM
The eating of meat has deteriorated the condition of man and shortened our lifespan.

What about the Inuit and Yupik peoples of Canada, Alaska and Russia? They've eaten nothing but meat for at least 5000 years, and they only started getting sick when the Europeans brought them alcohol and various diseases such as smallpox.

ttzippe85
Apr 4, 2006, 01:00 PM
On the contrary - the eating of meat has allowed man to survive. What about all the other meat eating animals? Are they doomed too? I don't think so. Your rhetoric is faulty.


I didn't say they were doomed to death, however its been proven that dogs that eat vegetarian diets live longer. Our original diet consisted of fruits, nuts, and grains but God allowed the eating of meat for several reasons.

DrJ
Apr 4, 2006, 01:03 PM
So if God allowed it and Jesus pardoned it, why is it killing us off faster?

ttzippe85
Apr 5, 2006, 08:39 AM
Please make your question more specific. Do you mean why is he allowing it to kill us off faster or why (scientifically) is it killing us off faster?

orange
Apr 5, 2006, 10:28 AM
I didn't say they were doomed to death, however its been proven that dogs that eat vegetarian diets live longer. Our original diet consisted of fruits, nuts, and grains but God allowed the eating of meat for several reasons.

The problem with using dogs as an example is that dogs are omnivores (they eat both meat and vegetables). So they can survive without meat. But what about true carnivores? Cats for example only eat meat, they would get very sick if they had to live on a vegetarian diet. But interestingly enough, even though they eat meat, cats live longer on average than dogs.

DrJ
Apr 5, 2006, 10:32 AM
Please make your question more specific. Do you mean why is he allowing it to kill us off faster or why (scientifically) is it killing us off faster?

LOL no, I don't want a scientific shpeal about why it is killing us off faster.. Im saying that if God decided that it was okay for us to eat meat and Jesus even came along and pardoned meats that were "forbidden," why would it be such a "poison" to us??

orange
Apr 5, 2006, 10:53 AM
LOL no, I dont want a scientific shpeal about why it is killing us off faster.. Im saying that if God decided that it was okay for us to eat meat and Jesus even came along and pardoned meats that were "forbidden," why would it be such a "poison" to us???

You're assuming the Bible makes sense, DrJizzle! :p Seriously though I share your questions about this. I was also going to say that the Bible sure changes its mind a lot about what people can and can't eat... first people didn't eat meat (before the flood), then people could eat any animal (after the flood but before Moses), then they could only eat certain animals and never with milk (Moses' time), then people were allowed to eat any animal again (Jesus' time).

If G-d really is behind all of this eating business (which I doubt!), He either has a hard time making up His mind, or He has a pretty awful sense of humour! :p

ScottGem
Apr 5, 2006, 11:08 AM
You're assuming the Bible makes sense, DrJizzle! :p Seriously though I share your questions about this. I was also going to say that the Bible sure changes its mind a lot about what people can and can't eat... first people didn't eat meat (before the flood), then people could eat any animal (after the flood but before Moses), then they could only eat certain animals and never with milk (Moses' time), then people were allowed to eat any animal again (Jesus' time).

If G-d really is behind all of this eating business (which I doubt!), He either has a hard time making up His mind, or He has a pretty awful sense of humour! :p

That's one of the things about the Bible. Usually someone can find a passage to support almost anything. Or find 2 passages that directly contradict each other.

Of course G-d has one hell of a sense of humor. Look at his creations!

orange
Apr 5, 2006, 11:30 AM
That's one of the things about the Bible. Usually someone can find a passage to support almost anything. Or find 2 passages that directly contradict each other.

Yup even the rabbi at the synagogue we've been attending admits to this, because I asked him. He says that's why we have the Talmud, to interpret everything, but that the Talmud also seems to contradict itself in parts! It doesn't seem to bother him though... he made a joke about it the other day actually! It's nice to see a sense of humour in a religious person! :p

ttzippe85
Apr 6, 2006, 12:59 PM
The problem with using dogs as an example is that dogs are omnivores (they eat both meat and vegetables). So they can survive without meat. But what about true carnivores? Cats for example only eat meat, they would get very sick if they had to live on a vegetarian diet. But interestingly enough, even though they eat meat, cats live longer on average than dogs.


Yes, but is has also been proven that vegetarian humans live longer lives than their omnivorous fellow humans. For example vegetarian adventists live an average of 4-5 more years, take less medicine, have fewer hospital stays, and have lower rates of several chronic diseases.

orange
Apr 6, 2006, 01:12 PM
Yes I agree with that, vegetarian diets are better for humans, but do you really think G-d would tell people to eat meat on purpose so that they would die sooner? I have a hard time believing that. Does it actually say in Genesis that Noah before the flood (or any of the people before him, Adam, Eve, Seth, etc.) never ate meat? I looked after you first posted this, but couldn't find anything. It does say in Genesis 9 that Noah was allowed to eat meat, but it's not clear about before hand.

DrJ
Apr 6, 2006, 06:02 PM
I will have to look it up for the resource, but I am sure I can find it. My brother used to have a set of videos that went into a deep study of these time periods. I believe part of their explanation as to how man was able to live so much longer had to do with the ozone.

Aparently, before the floods iwth Noah, there was quite a different chemical makeup of the ozone. I remember them saying something about a thin layer of Au, which is Gold. Sounds a little strange but they had actually done some extensive scientifical research. Anyway, this blocked out a lot of UVs I guess and really slowed the wear and tear on the human body.

I'll have to ask my brother and find out who these guys were or where we can find their studies.

Well, my brother remembered a little about it. He said it was the "Rose-something Group" from Texas. It was called the Creation Model. I googled it and the first result was by Hugh Ross... I think this must be it. I didn't get the chance to review the site much but I will. It is here:

http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/testablecreationsummary.shtml

I don't know if this is the authority site on the subject so I would suggest, for anyone that wants to look into this more, to Google it and check out all the results.

Starman
Apr 7, 2006, 08:19 AM
Actually, the permission to eat meat was given after the waters had receded and Noah left the Ark. But such eating might have been taking place illegally since we are told that
Pre-deluvian world was a violent one in which disobedient angelic beings materialized producing hybrid offspring called nefilim. So disrespect for prohibitions against eating meat, if such existed, would seem inevitable. In any case, the pre-flood world was much different from ours. We are told that instead of rain, a mist would rise from the ground to water the plants. Also, earth's surface was shielded from cosmic ray and ultraviolet radiation by a water canopy. This canopy added its weight to the floodwaters and ceased to exist. Some have linked the additional cosmic and solar radiation reaching the earth's surface due to the canopy's disapearance as the main cause of the sudden drop in life-spans.

DrJ
Apr 7, 2006, 09:23 AM
we are told that
pre-deluvian world was a violent one in which disobedient angelic beings materialized producing hybrid offspring called nefilim.

Where did you get this from, Starman?

Starman
Apr 7, 2006, 09:54 AM
Where did you get this from, Starman?

The book of Genesis gives a short account of pre-deluvian conditions. The book of Jude in the NT also mentions the angelic disobedience which occurred at that time and the punishment meted out to the angelic rebels involved.

DrJ
Apr 7, 2006, 10:34 AM
Really? Does it also speak of these hybrid creatures, nefilim?

(im not doubting.. just curious. I would love to find passages that speak of this)

Starman
Apr 8, 2006, 12:37 PM
Really? Does it also speak of these hybrid creatures, nefilim?

(im not doubting.. just curious. I would love to find passages that speak of this)

Here are some scriptures that speak about this.

Genesis 6:1-4. 2 Peter 2: 4. I Peter 3:19, 20.



All angels have the power to materialize. For example, the ones that were at Jesus' tomb at the time of his resurrection, and the angel Gabriel who appeared to the prophet Daniel and to Samson's mother, Judges 13: 2,3. later to Jesus' step father Joseph, Luke 1: 5-11. To Mary, Luke 1: 26--28 But the ones during Noah's day used this ability in the service of their own interests.


Perhaps Satan had already used this power in an unnatural way and had tempted these formerly faithful angels by recounting his immoral exploits. In any case, they took whatever women they pleased and the earth became full of violence during that time. As a consequence God decided to take action against these rebels and give mankind a new start.

When the Flood came, it destroyed the nephilim who were material beings but the rebel angels, their fathers, escaped by shedding their human-like bodies dematerializing back into the spirit realm. The book of Jude speaks of them as still being alive during the first century of our common era Jude 6 . However, they are no longer part of God's heavenly organization and seem to have been divested of their powers to materialize.

BTW

Some Bible scholars suggest that the Neanderthals were the nephilim.

Not all translations use the word Hebrew word nephilim though. Some translate the word as giants, or mighty ones. Some believe that the idea of mythological Greek demigods such as Hercules was based on the dim recollection of those pre-deluvian times when the Nephilim roamed the earth.

One thing to keep in mind is that these Nephilim had angelic fathers. So any human effort to irradicate them by means of military action would have come up against additional overwhelming superhuman forces.

orange
Apr 10, 2006, 04:13 PM
Wow Starman, fascinating stuff, thanks for sharing! :)

To change the subject slightly, I just wanted to let you guys all know that the baby I'm pregnant with (I'm 7 months pregnant), is going to be named Noah. I'm thinking about saving this discussion and printing it out so that he can read it when he's older! So seriously, if anyone has anymore interesting things to write about Noah please feel free!

Starman
Apr 10, 2006, 11:07 PM
Wow Starman, fascinating stuff, thanks for sharing! :)

To change the subject slightly, I just wanted to let you guys all know that the baby I'm pregnant with (I'm 7 months pregnant), is going to be named Noah. I'm thinking about saving this discussion and printing it out so that he can read it when he's older!! So seriously, if anyone has anymore interesting things to write about Noah please feel free!

Congratulations on your new son soon to arrive. The name Noah means "rest" or "peace".
http://av.rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9ibyJxQRjtEFnMBajBrCqMX;_ylu=X3oDMTBvdmM3bGl xBHBndANhdl93ZWJfcmVzdWx0BHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=12c3bjfhp/EXP=1144821712/**http%3a//www.babynames.com/Names/name_display.php%3fn=NOAH

I gave my son a biblical name as well--Emmanuel which means "With us is God."


Here are some scriptures that speak further about Noah. They can be read at the Bible Gateway site to which I have provided a link.

AGRICULTURE » Practiced by Noah (Genesis 9:20)

ALTAR » Built by Noah (Genesis 8:2)

ANTEDILUVIANS » Noah preaches to (Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:18-20; 2 Peter 2:5)

ARARAT » The ark of Noah came to rest in the mountains of (Genesis 8:4)

ARK » NOAH'S » Noah and family preserved in (Genesis 6:18;7:8; Matthew 24:38; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:20)

BENEDICTIONS » By God » Upon Noah (Genesis 9:1,2)

BLESSING » TEMPORAL, FROM GOD, EXEMPLIFIED » To Noah, at the time of the flood (Genesis 7:1)

CARPENTRY » Building the ark of Noah (Genesis 6:14-16)

COMMUNION » INSTANCES OF » Noah (Genesis 6:9,13-22;8:15-17)

COVENANT » INSTANCES OF » Noah (Genesis 8:16;9:8-17)

http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=Noah&x=15&y=8


BTW

All mankind is descends from Noah and his wife via his three sons Japeth, Shem, and Ham and their wives.

orange
Apr 11, 2006, 07:14 AM
Thanks for all the great information, Starman. I really appreciate it. Tried to comment but I am not allowed to give out anymore reputation for 24 hours. I think I always give out too much or something.

I agree with you about biblical names... they are timeless, sound nice and generally have good meanings. My name is biblical too... Chava is Hebrew for Eve. And my adopted kids are Shaina (which means beautiful in Hebrew) and Levi (pronounced lay-vee, not the English lee-vy). Only my husband is left out, because his name is Alexander, lol. But I love the name Alexander too.

Another nice thing about biblical names is that they are not so popular that everyone in the class is going to have that name. When I was in school there were about 5 each of Jennifers, Michelles and Jasons! Noah is a fairly popular name right now as well, but not as much so as some of the more trendy names. Our baby's second name is going to be Samuel or Solomon. We haven't decided which one sounds better yet.

Interesting about Emmanuel... that was the name of one of my childhood friends. He also had a brother named Israel and a sister named Praise. Actually the female version of Emmanuel, Emmanuelle, is pretty popular among French Canadians here. I knew 2 girls with that name growing up.