From what I've heard, you won't go to heaven if you have sex before marriage. My friend and her boyfriend are really close, and she has told me she might have sex with him. They are sixteen, and I'm not sure what to tell her. She also asked me this: "if i have sex with him, will i go to hell?"

So I guess my question is, will she go to hell, and how do I stop her?

Rather than worrying about hell, if I were your friend and her boyfriend, I would worry about life on earth. Sex produces babies. Your friend is very young and very unprepared to be a mother, just like her boyfriend is not at all ready to support a family. Both need more schooling and maturity and just having fun and freedom before thoughts of babies dominate their lives. And another thought is that, once they give away their virginity, it's gone. Poof! It's unlikely they will marry each other someday. Why not save that precious gift for that special person?

While I am not saying it is okay with God to have sex before marriage I don't see it as a simple you messed up by *sinning* so you are going to hell. God knows we are human and he knows are short comings and our faults. I believe it is more a matter of your heart and desire to please God and work toward being right with him. Basically it is not a black and white cut and dry thing. We are not suppose to just give into sin and then repent like it is nothing but we need to strive toward doing right. It is best she tries to find the inner strength to not but God isn't waiting to strike a person into hell for what they do either.

I don't think that it's a good idea for her to have sex, but there's nothing you can say or do to stop her if she has her mind made up. It says in the bible no sex before marriage, but you can repent of your sins. Not saying that it is okay because sin is never okay, but there's only one true judge. Sex is soomething big, not just something to jump into. There could be a lot of consequences other than hell, diseases or pregnancy.

OK thanks so much. Because I know that she told me they were going to use condoms. I think I will tell her that God won't send you to hell, but you should save it for that special one when you get married.

Sex was intended to be a beautiful joining of two, in confirmed love for one another. The love can be blessed with a gift of love from God, a baby.
As we grow up accountability for your actions are important for it is a balance to what leads you in doing right from wrong. As a christian we believe God teaches us to remain pure hearted and love one another. Casual sex can always hurt someone. So your friend should first answer whether she wants to hurt God? Hurt herself? Or hurt someone else?
In all cases, I would hope her accountability brings the answer to NO... Thus she has her answer to casual sex..

As I have said in previous posts, sex before marriage takes away the specialness of it. My example: consider graduation. We anticipate graduation for many years before it actually arrives. We can't hurry it along, but imagine if people could just graduate from school when they couldn't contain their excitement anymore and couldn't wait any longer, that would take away from the presitigiousness and honor of the graduation ceremony. It wouldn't be special anymore. Sex is a beautiful and wonderful thing to be shared only with ones spouse. That's what makes it special because it is saved for that one special person in your life.

That being said, do I think the sin of sex before marriage will mark you for hell. Yes and No. Yes, if you have not accepted Jesus as your Savior. No, if you have accepted Jesus as your Savior. (Mind you, your salvation is not an excuse to sin) Your afterlife destination (heaven or hell) is not determined so much as what you do, as what you don't do. Sin is sin, its not ranked by scores of 1-10; 10 being the worst. If you've lied once you have sinned and have earned hell, BUT the great thing is, all you have to do is believe and accept what Jesus did for you on the cross and that sin no longer bounds you to hell. In short, no your friend will not go to hell for having sex before she's married, she will go to hell if she has not accepted Jesus as her Savior (if she is not born again), should she have sex before marriage, no, she shouldn't. It's a sacred thing to be shared with her future husband. She'll be missing out on a beautiful moment she could share with her true love if she gives her most precious gift away to the wrong person.

Hope this helps.

the bible clearly states it more than once that all fornicators will go to hell. The answer therefore is simple, if she dies with that sin she is going straight to hell.
I am not a virgin and I am not married. I had sex when I was about your age and truth be told I have reretted it ever since. It is difficult to stop once you satrt and it has plenty of disadvantages. You could get stds, aids or get pregnant. Since your friend is not ready to have a child she will promptly abort once she gets pregnant. She will mess up her life and rue the day she had sex.
condoms are 97% reliable but there is a 3% chance it doesn't work.
her spiritual life will crumble and she will give assess to demons to confuse her and harden her heart.
when I had sex I became hardened and didn't know my right from wrong. I felt alone and confused but God rescued me and didn't let me die in my sin.
tell her that God loves her and if the guy she is going out with really loves her he won't even consider having sex with her. She is special in God's eyes and she deserves nothing short of true love. A man who loves you won't want to hurt u and that's what he's going to do to her if he sleeps with her.
u can't force her not to but just give her your sound advice! At the end of the day its up to her.
God doenst mess with our free will only the devil does. Sex is wonderful but only when done at the right time. Please remember. If u want to learn from my story then let me know

lilthechic disagrees: don't negotiate with sin. Yes God understands but there is a limited amount of grace

I wasn't saying otherwise, BUT things DO happen and SHE has no control over her friend.
I was saying it is not a direct ticket to hell, BUT it is not something to take lightly either.

I did say '' I am not saying it is okay with God''

I'll keep this short and sweet. Your friend might go to hell yes. But god is forgiving. But tell her it will be so much more special if she is married because its more sacred that way. Even if she has to wait years it will probably be worth it. I'm 16 as well and I know I would never partake in that behavior. She needs to worry about stds, babies, and just her overall emotional stress she could gain. If this boyfriend of hers is making her or suggesting sex then he needs to be dumped she is only 16 for god sake. Tell her NO.

Unfortunately all sinners go to hell. Actually everyone who dies go to hell. Now whether a person stays dead eternally depends on how one has lived life before death. Sex is only for an adult man and woman who are married to each other.
Life is sacred to God. Sex is sacred also. Life and sex are linked together because sex comes from life and life comes by sex. True sexual intimacy comes from mutual love and affection between married partners and eternally committed to each other only. One is not physically, emotionally, mentally, or financially ready for sex until some time during aduthood.
I do agree that it can be a challenge to maintain one's sacred virginity when we live in a world that is crazed about sex. We see it everywhere on TV. We hear about it all the time from friends and possibly family. You might even talk or hint or at least think about it daily. It is no wonder it is difficult to remain chaste.
The key to remaining chaste is to control ones thoughts and thinking about sex so often. Speaking about it also fuels the fire. Listening to others who talk about it does not help. Definitely have a boy or girl friend does very well lead to sex.

Put your mind on something more worthwhile and beneficial for ones age and for your future benefit. I hope this is something's you can share with your friend.

Patriarch Wrote: Unfortunately all sinners go to hell. Actually everyone who dies go to hell. Now whether a person stays dead eternally depends on how one has lived life before death.


Where in the world did you read that??????

Well, she's only sixteen so she should try and grow up so fast by having sex with her boyfriend. She's way too young for that and she should risk getting pregnant. I believe that couples shouldn't have sex before marriage, but I don't believe that they will go to hell if they do. From my beliefs, God doesn't send people to hell when they have sinned against him. God is forgiving and if something happens then it happens, but I would not put hell in the picture because of that.

If you go to Heaven depends on if you have accepted Christ as your Savior, we are all sinners, the difference is some are saved sinners and others are not. As saved people, we try not to sin, but we all fail at time.

I would worry at this point of STD, pregnancy and other first hand issues. Their relationship with God will be their own personal issue

That is a good question. In the bible if you read it it says that Jesus would always forgive us no matter what, just as long as you really mean your apology when you say it you'll be fine. You will not go to hell, although God does frown upon that and wishes you would listen to him.

It's not worth the heartache at this time in their life. They don't have the coping tools if something goes wrong. Please tell them to wait. I don't think their love of god will stop them, because we live in a secular, liberal society that pushes sex at every angle. The fact that they're thinking of it is a symptom of the depravity of our society. Dare them to be different. Our focus in a christian walk should always be purity first, internally and externally. I'll pray for their purity, cause I think they need our prayers.

Yeahh. I told her that she should wait until she knows her boyfriend is really the right one, and she loves him so much that they could get married.

However, she interjected me when I was talking to her. She said that her boyfriend had talked to his parents about sex, and they agreed with him that sex is for people that truly love each other. What do I say to that?

If that's all he took away from his discussion about sex with his parents, I think his parents would disagree that this statement would be a go-ahead to have sex. To truly love someone is to put their best interests first, not our own. They barely got a driver's license. They are very young, and sex is a responsibility to another person. Let them ask their parents if they should have sex. The parents are older, more experienced, and can make wiser decisions regarding their children, who are not yet adult.

Where in the world did you read that??????[/QUOTE]


Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20 "which befalleth...men befalleth beasts:...as the one dieth, so dieth
the other" "All go unto one place"
Ecclesiastes 9:10 ""in the grave, wither thou goest"

Unfortunately all sinners go to hell. Actually everyone who dies go to hell.
Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20 "which befalleth...men befalleth beasts:...as the one dieth, so dieth
the other" "All go unto one place"
Ecclesiastes 9:10 ""in the grave, wither thou goest"
How on earth did you get such an interpretation from those verses? That's not what that means at all!

With all do respect ( and please forgive my English) I think that we all miss something very important here.
We forgett that if I have sex with someone , I am one flesh with that person , in other words , married to that person and that's how God sees me.
If I amy say , dear unknown624,you could ask your friend that you care so much about, if she would like to be considered married before God, if your friend cares about God, because if she does not then probably you are just losing your time.But to those who really care about God , having sex with a person is equal to be married to that person.It's as simple as that!

How on earth did you get such an interpretation from those verses? That's not what that means at all!

Why do you think otherwise?

why do you think otherwise?
Because it's simply not what those verses mean. Read them in context.

Plus, God's grace is sufficient for me. Jesus' sacrifice was "good enough" to abolish eternal death for believers and to restore them to God's favor.

Because it's simply not what those verses mean. Read them in context.

Plus, God's grace is sufficient for me. Jesus' sacrifice was "good enough" to abolish eternal death for believers and to restore them to God's favor.

Then explain them to me by what other scripture says about the subject of death. This is the only way to prove the certainty of meaning of any scripture not by opinion or statement.

Then explain them to me by what other scripture says about the subject of death. This is the only way to prove the certainty of meaning of any scripture not by opinion or statement.
It's not my opinion. What do you want to know about death? Ask specific questions, and I will give you Biblical answers.

(It's 3:15 a.m. here in Chicagoland, and I must go to bed, but I will look for your questions when I am back online in the morning--after a cup or two of coffee.)

Dear Patriarch! I think you are focusing on the tree here than on the forest.
There are verces in the book of Ecclesiastes that you cannot isolate the way you do from the rest of the book because they can really mislead you.
The whole message of the book is coverd in chapter 12 ver. 13,14... 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

In other words I cannot say who's going to hell and who's not that's God's job , because there are many secret things , good and evil.

Do not judge by the phenomenon that can mislead even the strongest , but judge in Christ who can save even the weakest!

Unknown,

There is NOTHING in the scripture that says that you will to Hell if you have sex before marriage! That is simply not true and there would be hardly anyone there if that were the case. You go to hell by denying Jesus Christ as your savior... nothing else will send you there.

Having said that, there is plenty in the scripture that says that sex outside of marriage is a sin. It is a sin because it isn't good for us. It can cause disease and relationship issues, and can even mess with our emotions in a very negative way. But even more importantly I believe the Bible teaches it is a sacred and spirtual act that is meant for husband and wife. It is beautiful and God isn't trying to keep something from you, He is trying to give something special to you... if you will heed his Word. That is my two cents.

God condemns all those who have committed sexual sins.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
This would even include lust.
Matthew 5:27-30 27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
All of us have broken God's commandments, and we need a Savior. But there here is some good news. God promises to save any sinner who repents of their sins, and places their trust in Jesus Christ alone as their Lord and Savior.
1 John 1:7-10 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
If your friend places her trust in the Lord, she will not go to hell.
John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
If she rejects Christ, she will be thrown into the lake of fire, whether she commits fornication or not.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

God condemns all those who have committed sexual sins.

Not quite. God (the Law) condemns ALL sinners for ALL sins, big or small.

[QUOTE=Wondergirl;1293179]It's not my opinion. What do you want to know about death? Ask specific questions, and I will give you Biblical answers.


Please use scriptures that back up your rebuttal of my statements. This will prove that your assertions are not merely your opinion. Also, take note that since the Bible is in total harmony, the scriptural explanations you use should be in harmony with all other scriptures on any particular subject. If the scripture(s) you use are contradictory with other scriptures then the explanation of such will be inaccurate.

Dear Patriarch! I think you are focussing on the tree here than on the forest.
There are verces in the book of Ecclesiastes that you cannot isolate the way you do from the rest of the book because they can really mislead you.

The entire book nor the entire 3rd chapter of Ecclesiastes does not talk about death, which is the subject of discussion. I used scriptures that are about the subject of discussion.

The whole message of the book is coverd in chapter 12 ver. 13,14... 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

This I agree with, but we are talking about death.

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

In other words i cannot say who's going to hell and who's not that's God's job , because there are many secret things , good and evil.

The Bible does tell us who goes to hell.

Do not judge by the phenomenon that can mislead even the strongest , but judge in Christ who can save even the weakest!

This is true for there are many false prophets in the world, even those who claim to be Christian-- Matthew 7:15-23, 10:16, 15:1, 3, 24:4, 5; Acts 20:29, 30

Dear Patriarch!
You write somewhere that every one who dies go to hell and then you use verses from the Ecclesiastes book to support your opinion.
I have one question... Since as you say that everyone who dies go to hell , when Jesus died did He go to hell also?If everyone who dies go to hell , then why did the Lord say to the criminal that was crusified with Him that they will both be together in Paradise that night?Not everyone who dies go to hell but everyone who is in hell , is dead!Death is not hell, but hell is death.The verses you used simply do not match with sex before marriage , and that is the question here.How did death come up?
Your judgement comes easily , but remember that the Pharisses did the same thing.They judged by the word of the law and not by the Spirit of the Law.
So what about death?Do you actually say that everyone who dies go to hell?What about Lazarus and the rich guy?Where did Lazarus go after his death?Definetaly not in hell!So how can you say what you say?If you say that everyone who lives his life in sin until his death will go to hell then I agree with you , but this is something else from everyone who dies go to hell.

How on earth did you get such an interpretation from those verses? That's not what that means at all!

Back to my old argument, how valuable is the bible if everyone is trying to figure out what it REALLY means when it says this or that. Who is to say what is really meant by a verse?

To your question whether this girl will go to hell my candid answer is that NOBODY can tell. In the first place, let us hope she will live long enough to have plenty of opportunities to work for her own Salvation, is she believes in that possibility.

Being punished with whatever waits for us sinners who do not sincerely repent is something we cannot anticipate, as we cannot anticipate any of GOD’s designs.
If you read DANTE’s Divine Comedy, you will see that he “confortably” installs into Hell a lot of people that we should think we have gone directly to Heaven. Even some Popes! Of course, this is a fiction, but it has a lot of common sense in it.

On the other hand, premarital sex does not guarantee a successful marital life afterwards, and it does guarantee, instead, a potential source of problems which can be everyday seen and heard of in our media.

To stop this girl from doing it, you can only apply to her common sense! We have ALL being young, and we have ALL felt like having sex before having been married. I for one kept on begging my wife-to-be for the 3 last years before our marriage! Her answer was always the same – a flat NO! This next May we shall have been 59 years happily married!
Early sex may shorten sexual interest when married. We all know that the passion of newly weds does not last long! If they spend it before getting married what will be left for afterwards?

Perhaps this is one of the reasons so many couples who are living together for a while decide to get married one good day to divorce a few months later...

My gosh people!
This was originally written over 18 months ago, think it might be dead by now?

My gosh people!!
This was originally written over 18 months ago, think it might be dead by now??

And your point is..

unknown624,
If a person wants to mess up the rest of their life having sex before marriage is a great way to do that.
So far there has been some good advice given and it should be followed.
Keep in mind that having sex before marriage something special is gone forever and great danger for someone so young has taken place.
Condoms are not 100% safe and should not be trusted. They break, they leak and sometime they come off.
Resisting the temptation to have sex builds character. It is a great way to strengthen ones self for trials in later life.
It is also a great way to be proud on ones self rather than regretting for the rest of life something a person has done that could have been avoided.
This is one of those times that saying "NO!!!!" is extremely important.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I don't think its as simple as 'if u have sex before marriage u are going to hell' because Gos forgives every sin and also James said that a man that keeps all of Gods laws except one is as guilty as a man who brakes all of Gods laws. So doesn't that show that every sin is equal and we were born as sinners? We are always making mistakes but I don't think u should concentrate on them but concentrate on helping others and in your case I agree with the parenting expert, u should explain that it puts her in risk of getting pregnant and she is too young. Because also having sex is a way of binding two people together and most of the time at 16 your too young to make the decision as to who your going to be bound to for the rest of your life...
that's just my thoughts.. :)

Penguinio, Thanks for your thots on that.
Fred

My gosh people!!
This was originally written over 18 months ago, think it might be dead by now??

I what I said can be considered a piece of good advice, then I think tha date of the thread is irrelevant.
In fact, I believe it can be applied to anybody facing the same problem.

from what i've heard, you won't go to heaven if you have sex before marriage. my friend and her boyfriend are really close, and she has told me she might have sex with him. they are sixteen, and i'm not sure what to tell her. she also asked me this: "if i have sex with him, will i go to hell?"

so i guess my question is, will she go to hell, and how do i stop her?!

Sex out of wedlock is a sin. One goes to hell if one remains obstinately in sin until the end.

However, if one repents from sin and asks God's forgiveness, God forgives.

If your friend and her boyfriend are as close as you say, perhaps they should consider marriage.

Sincerely,

De Maria

gromitt82
Yup!!
Fred

Dear..
No one can tell you who is going to heaven and who is not.. I'm very much against premarried sex.. and also I believe that every one will be question and maybe even punished for every wrong they did.. But when it's about heaven and who is the one to say about going or not going to it... It's just HIM.. God is the only one that can say so about it.. not you, not me... not any one..
God bless.

Dear..
No one can tell you who is going to heaven and who is not.. I'm very much against premarried sex..and also I believe that every one will be question and maybe even punished for every wrong they did.. But when it's about heaven and who is the one to say about going or not going to it... It's just HIM.. God is the only one that can say so about it.. not you,, not me... not any one..
God bless.

Exactly. And no one but GOD has the last and only word about our final destiny, Let's not forget that. All the rest is sheer speculation.

No you won't go to hell. Only very bad people go to hell like murderers and rappists. As long as she knows to protect herself and that he's not using her then don't try stop her. You won't go to hell if you have sex before marriage everybody does it.

samdarwen,
Yes you are right.
Only God knows who will God where.
Jesus is the final judge.

BLONDE_MAFIA,
That is bad advice.
No one should advise other to commit sin
And...
NOT everyone has sex before marriage.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Dear..
No one can tell you who is going to heaven and who is not.. I'm very much against premarried sex..and also I believe that every one will be question and maybe even punished for every wrong they did.. But when it's about heaven and who is the one to say about going or not going to it... It's just HIM.. God is the only one that can say so about it.. not you,, not me... not any one..
God bless.

LOL... so Jesus work on the cross wasn't enough..? When I stand before him I will give an account for my sins? REALLY?? Give me the scripture for it...

No you won't go to hell. Only very bad people go to hell like murderers and rappists. As long as she knows to protect herself and that he's not using her then don't try stop her. You wont go to hell if you have sex before marrage everybody does it.

I think you are proposing a piece of advice completely unsuitable!

In the first place YOU CANNOT TELL ANYONE Whether HE/SHE WILL OR WILL NOT GO TO HELL OR HEAVEN. To the best of my knowledge, NOBODY has a direct redphone with GOD to ask about this or any other subjects connected with GOD.

In the second place, NOT everybody has sex before marriage! Perhaps you do or did. But this is your own business and eventually you will find out whether you were right or wrong!
But I believe it is utterly unwise to affirm that because, as you say, everybody does it, that's the final guarantee that it is all right.

Yes I will answer your wish... But please read and understand and don't let our stubborn lead you to the wrong way..
" He Who has my commandments and keeps them, it is who loves me, and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him. ( John 14, 15/ 21 ).
Also
When Jesus answered and said to Judas.. " If anyone loves me, he will keep my WORD; and my Father will love him, and will come to him and make our home with him,( John 14,15/ 23)
My friend, There is a lot more if you take time to read.. I don't wish to make this an argument, all what I'm saying is God love's you and every one, But don't be mistaking.. If you didn't carry his word and lived by it, then you are not whom he meant by loving and all... Please read more and have an open mind.. I mean good well for you and every other person.. I will keep respecting whatever you believe in.. And I wish you can do the same too..
Peace
Sam

Sam,

My sins were washed white as snow NEVER to be remembered anymore, as far as the east is from the west. If I have to account for ONE of them... I won't be fit to stand before the Lord and worse it would mean Jesus didn't finish the work on the cross... he just STARTED it. I believe you are wrong. But I've been through this a zillion times and guess what? I never did change anyone's mind.

gromitt82,
I agree.
It is bad advice to encourage anyone to sin.
Fred

Sam,

My sins were washed white as snow NEVER to be remembered anymore, as far as the east is from the west.

Your unrepented sins?

Or did you first repent of your sins, ask forgiveness and then they were forgiven by God?


If I have to account for ONE of them... I won't be fit to stand before the Lord and worse it would mean Jesus didn't finish the work on the cross... he just STARTED it.

Jesus did finish what He started on the Cross. He redeemed us. What does that mean to you?

Does that mean to you that you are no longer accountable to anyone?

What it means is that you have been bought at a very dear price. And now you are accountable to Jesus, the Just Judge. He it is who bought you at the price of His blood.


I believe you are wrong. But I've been through this a zillion times and guess what? I never did change anyone's mind.

Because Scripture is clear that sin has a consequence which must be paid.

Yes, Jesus died for our sins. But only if we repent of them. Otherwise, even unrepentant sinners would go to heaven. And that would violate God's justice.

And repenting of our sins doesn't just mean saying, "Oh, gosh, I'm sorry." True repentance means, doing our best to make right that which we made wrong. Making restitution where possible or paying back in the best way we can when restitution isn't possible.

Have you ever read in Scripture:

Luke 19:8And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold. 9And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

This is true repentance. Not simply saying, "I'm sorry for my sins".

Lip service has never been enough.

De Maria,
Right.
A person must repent and confess that they are sinners.
Also a person must be forgiving of others otherwise their sin will NOT be forgiven so Jesus tells us.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

To : Classy T
I hope for the sake of all this people that believe in it your way, that you are right about what you believe... And I wish you the best...
I will continue to see things my way, and also you will... I hope you the best.


"I must work the works of Him, who sent me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work". John 9/4

samdarwen,
I agree with you about your attitude concerning ClassyT.
But I will continue to believe what the bible says about the forgiveness of sins.
That is without confessing your sinfulness and having them forgiven there is no ticket to heaven.
And also the fact that we are forgiven "As we forgive those who sin against us."
Peace and kindness,
Fred

To continue my first reply and some of what others have said,
We have to realize we are a work in progress and God knows we are human and humans error. The bumper sticker that said Be patient God isn't finished with me yet says a lot.
We are not to use our 'being saved' as a license to sin but we do need to realize when we sin that it shows how far short we fall from God's righteousness and it is Jesus that redeemed us, that we can not save ourselves by our righteousness. Romans says a lot on the flesh and the spirit warring against each other.
14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

N0help4u,
That was very good.
Our human nature to sin is powerful and Satan's work at temptation makes it worse.
Without the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the lessons taught by the words and deeds of Jesus I would surely be lost as are others.
With God's help we can work well in attempt to be what He wants us to be and what we all should want to be, and that is good worthwhile people.
Peace and kindness,
Fred.

Sam,

My sins were washed white as snow NEVER to be remembered anymore, as far as the east is from the west. If I have to account for ONE of them...I won't be fit to stand before the Lord and worse it would mean Jesus didn't finish the work on the cross...he just STARTED it. I believe you are wrong. But I've been thru this a zillion times and guess what? I never did change anyone's mind.

I am sorry to interfere in your argument with Sam, and you can tell me to mind my own business. However, I can't help being a little surprised at your comments re. "your sins were washed white as snow NEVER to be remembered again..."

You are indeed very lucky and must have some kind of secret access to our Saviour and Creator that allows you to be so absolutely certain of having been totally pardoned.

To the best of my knowledge, the greatest saints of Christianity were always praying to GOD to have their countless sins forgiven... You are, no doubt, the exception!

I am sorry to interfere in your argument with Sam, and you can tell me to mind my own business. However, I can't help being a little surprised at your comments re. "your sins were washed white as snow NEVER to be remembered again..."

You are indeed very lucky and must have some kind of secret access to our Saviour and Creator that allows you to be so absolutely certain of having been totally pardoned.

To the best of my knowledge, the greatest saints of Christianity were always praying to GOD to have their countless sins forgiven... You are, no doubt, the exception!

Grommit , De Maria, Sam,

This is a direct quote from the word of God. My sins and inquities will be remembered NO MORE. I will NEVER stand before the Lord Jesus and give an acccount for my SINS. I will give an account of my life after salvation. The bible is clear on this subject. I still do sin but like John says... If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. We have no license to continue on in sin and the Lord will SURELY deal with us if we do.

I kind of smile in amazement at people that actually think they have to WORK their way to heaven AFTER they accept the Lord Jesus as their savior. ANYTHING that I may do right, good and pleasing to the Lord... is only because of HIM. ALL of my righteousness is as a filthy rag to him. ( did you read that?. ALL!! ) I couldn't be good enough before or AFTER salvation. He redeemed me. He bought me, He cleansed me. It is all about HIM and HIS work. My job is to die to myself and Live to please him... unfortunately with my flesh... I fail. And YET HIS promise to me is simple... I will NEVER ( catch that word?) NEVER leave you or forsake you. If we can't believe Jesus at His word... we are in trouble.

John also says in his epistle... The blood of Jesus Christ, HIS SON, cleanses us from ALL sin. Funny, I always thought ALL meant ALL. Go figure?

Grommit , De Maria, Sam,

[QUOTE]This is a direct quote from the word of God. My sins and inquities will be remembered NO MORE. I will NEVER stand before the Lord Jesus and give an acccount for my SINS. I will give an account of my life after salvation. The bible is clear on this subject.


How can the bible be CLEAR on any subject? Is it clear on EVERY subject? There is SO MUCH room for error due to the time lapse, translations, interpretations, influences at the time of the translation or interpretation.

[
QUOTE]I still do sin but like John says... If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. We have no license to continue on in sin and the Lord will SURELY deal with us if we do.[/QUOTE

Number one, when we have a personal relationship with our God, we do not want to play fast and loose with sin. We don't expect to have a license to sin, because when you have love, respect and honor for God , you wouldn't want to displease him. For someone who truly wants to please God, it's not all about just doing what is necessary to get to heaven. It is about just living to please for the sake of living to please. When a threat of hell is your motivation, doesn't it color the sincerity?


My job is to die to myself and Live to please him... unfortunately with my flesh... I fail. And YET HIS promise to me is simple... I will NEVER ( catch that word?) NEVER leave you or forsake you. If we can't believe Jesus at His word... we are in trouble.


This I do believe. "Die to myself and live to please him" means to separate yourself from your ego, leave it behind and live in the "I am" which is the inner Christ in us Living in the flesh is living in the egoic part of us. The ego/flesh will lead you astray.

[
Number one, when we have a personal relationship with our God, we do not want to play fast and loose with sin. We don't expect to have a license to sin, because when you have love, respect and honor for God , you wouldn't want to displease him. For someone who truly wants to please God, it's not all about just doing what is necessary to get to heaven. It is about just living to please for the sake of living to please. When a threat of hell is your motivation, doesn't it color the sincerity?



This I do believe. "Die to myself and live to please him" means to separate yourself from your ego, leave it behind and live in the "I am" which is the inner Christ in us Living in the flesh is living in the egoic part of us. The ego/flesh will lead you astray.[/QUOTE]

Cozyk,

Hmmm? Who is playing fast and loose with sin? Of course I want to please HIM! When you love someone and they just forgave you of something you could NEVER EVER pay for, you tend to get pretty Loyal. On top of the fact He puts his very own spirit to live within me. I can't earn my way to heaven and I never could. As far as motivation? I am assuming you mean BEFORE salvation. Well, I came to the Lord Jesus around 4 years old because I didn't want to go to hell and I KNEW I was a sinner and needed help. Some people come to the Lord because they get right away the LOVE of Christ and their need, some are on their death bed or sick, or have a family member sick... does any of those things mean they aren't sincere? Who comes to the Lord without a need or a motive? LOL who? NO ONE. You MUST recognize your condition as being lost and unable to do it yourself and in need of a savior. Oh YES I had motive but it didn't make me insincere.

It takes the Holy Spirit to understand the word of God. It isn't a book that one can pick up and read and get just like that. However there really is no wiggle room for error. If the God of the Universe can MAKE something out of nothing, I'm not too concerned about him being able to maintain and preserve accuracy in His word. The bible fits together like a big puzzle with the main thread from Genesis it is ALL about Jesus and it takes the Holy Spirit to open the mind and heart to understand it.

Coyz


hmmm? Who is playing fast and loose with sin? Of course I want to please HIM! When you love someone and they just forgave you of something you could NEVER EVER pay for, you tend to get pretty Loyal. On top of the fact He puts his very own spirit to live within me.

We so agree on this.


I can't earn my way to heaven and I never could. As far as motivation? I am assuming you mean BEFORE salvation. Well, I came to the Lord Jesus around 4 years old because I didn't want to go to hell


That is not my motivation. I don't even believe there is a hell. At least not the place of torture you hear about growing up in a baptist church.

Cozy,

I haven't met one person that I want to go to hell. Not even my enemies. Or people that give me reddies. Ha I don't WANT to believe in hell but the Lord Jesus spoke about it the most and it is in the bible and there just is no way around it... like it or not. But I don't suppose I'm going to convince you...

Cozy,

I haven't met one person that I want to go to hell. Not even my enemies. or people that give me reddies. ha I don't WANT to believe in hell but the Lord Jesus spoke about it the most and it is in the bible and there just is no way around it...like it or not. But i don't suppose I'm gonna convince you...

Not as long as you use something as "shakey" as the bible to get your facts.

I hope that you always have a smile on your face. I mean no harm by writing my believes and try to show a different ideas.. Thank you for understanding..
Now.. I would ask you to read one page, But , you have to read and try to keep everything out of the way, Just for one hour, and see if you can see it the same way..
Thank you again.
John : 15 /1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25,26,27..
In John 15:10 you will find "If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in His love.
and
In John 15/16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit. And
In John 15/22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now,, they have no excuse for their sin.

Dear friend... Please understand that I'm not trying to prove you wrong.. I understand your point view.. But to believe in Him, means allot more that saying it.. It means not to do wrong.. not to sin and have a thought of being saved because the salvation is not just talk.. It's also work.. That is the only thing I want others to see.
I'm sorry if I said or showed anything other than love and respect.. I will pull myself out of this conversation..
Peace..
Sam

I hope that you always have a smile on your face. I mean no harm by writing my believes and try to show a different ideas.. Thank you for understanding..
Now.. I would ask you to read one page,, But , you have to read and try to keep everything out of the way,, Just for one hour, and see if you can see it the same way..
Thank you again.
John : 15 /1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25,26,27..
In John 15:10 you will find "If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in His love.
and
In John 15/16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit. and
In John 15/22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now,,, they have no excuse for their sin.

Dear friend... Please understand that I'm not trying to prove you wrong.. I understand your point view.. But to believe in Him, means allot more that saying it.. It means not to do wrong.. not to sin and have a thought of being saved because the salvation is not just talk.. It's also work.. That is the only thing I want others to see.
I'm sorry if I said or showed anything other than love and respect .. I will pull myself out of this conversation..
Peace..
Sam

Now samuel, sammy, sammyboy ( or could it be Samantha?)

Anyway, now why in the world wouldn't I have a smile on my face. I am saved and headed for heaven. In ephesians I am already positioned sitting in heavenly places. That is something to smile about!! Don't ja think?

course YOU on the other hand must always be worried... did you have a wrong thought? Were your motives pure?? Was the Lord pleased with you? Or how about sins you didn't KNOW were... hmmmm? We have a flesh and it does get in the way even when we think it is in check. Or wait?? Does the blood of Jesus only cover ignorance when you sin after you are saved and you don't know you do? Or you forgot you did? I'd like a verse for that if you can find one. And my friend, care to give me the verse that says the Holy Spirit gets fed up and leaves you? Because I keep looking and my Bible says I'm SEALED with the Holy Spirit of Promise and the Lord Jesus himself will never leave me or forsake me. When the bible uses the word ALL and NEVER I stand up and take notice! Nope, I have a big smile on myself, and elephant of sin off my chest, and GOOD NEWS on my lips! This is the day the Lord has made let us be Glad and rejoice in it!! :)

NOTE: I do NOT believe that I can continue to get away with sinning!! That is not my point and the Lord will and HAS dealt with me. I am saying that all of my sins, past, present and future are covered under the blood and my salvation is secure. When Noah was put on the ark and the door was shut ( the ark is such a picture of Jesus)... he was safe and secure... Noah himself couldn't open the door. Jesus put it best... IT IS FINISHED! What a savior.

samdarwen,
I agree with you about your attitude concerning ClassyT.

Fred

Fred,

Just sos you know... I SAW that. Ha :p ;)

Good for you dear..
Like I said.. I didn't mean to disrespect or try to make this chit chat go this far.
You are intitle to believe whatever you want to believe, That what makes us mankind.
I truly wanted to share some knowledge I earned by reading g and studying.. I understand your point view and I respect it... So please try to have the same spirit..
Thank you any way..

By the way.. I'm not Samantha, nor Samuel.. my user name is also my email.. just add the hotmail to it... And I'm from a walking distance from the Church of the Nativity, where Jesus was born about two thousand year ago.. And I do like to change this argument to be more privet, because I believe it will effect other people in a negative way.. So if you wish to talk about it any more, You are more than welcome to email me..
Peace
Sam

Good for you dear..
Like I said.. I didn't mean to disrespect or try to make this chit chat go this far.
You are intitle to believe whatever you want to believe, That what makes us mankind.
I truly wanted to share some knowledge I earned by reading g and studying.. I understand your point view and I respect it... So please try to have the same spirit..
Thank you any way..

By the way.. I'm not Samantha, nor Samuel.. my user name is also my email.. just add the hotmail to it... And I'm from a walking distance from the Church of the Nativity, where Jesus was born about two thousand year ago.. And I do like to change this argument to be more privet, because I believe it will effect other people in a negative way.. So if you wish to talk about it any more,, You are more than welcome to email me..
Peace
Sam

Well, I was just debating it a bit with you. I suppose I should save my discussions and debates for the religious discussion board. Sorry.

I wanted to share my knowledge with you.. I got mine the same as you did, reading and studying AND I am not going to eat you up for having a different view point and I hope I am respectful but I won't concede when you are dead wrong. :D ( was that respectful? Lol don't take me so serious) you can tolerate me better that way.

Thank you dear.. You have a great spirit...
Like I said before; I mean no harm.. All what I mean is, If we really need to answer a question for some one indeed needs some answers, let's just answer them the way we think it's right.. As I said before; you do things the way you feel it serves you, and I will do mine.. I don't claim to know.. I'm just an average Joe.. But when I was researching for my post, this stuff took a lots of my time to understand.. And when I heard some one asking if they will be judged on the JUDGMENT DAY.. I thought, Hum.. They call it Judgment day for a good reason, and yes, we all have sins, I do and I speak for myself, and I know that if I didn't change, and kept on doing wrong, and not think of having the Lord's word delivered, then I have shared in the sin.. We as some one who believe some way or another.. Do have a duty, a duty for those in need for it.. All what I want is to help some one, and the last thing I want or need, is to try to prove stuff to some one who is not even willing to read.. And believe me, we didn't get the knowledge the same way.. I been through times that forced me to look and study, and see things I never believed it was there.. I use to believe the same way as yourself.. But things changes..
I have no wants in any way, to keep running this thing and know that we are not going no were.. I think you are here for the same reason as I'm.. You want to help some one, because that is a part of commandments that the Lord Himself asked us to deliver..
Peace
Sam

cozyk disagrees: I think it's your smugness that's condescending
Cozyk,

Well when I am replying to YOU I will remember that. Thanks for the tip.

Not as long as you use something as "shakey" as the bible to get your facts.

Shakey huh? I believe it is absolute truth. And by the way... my mind is WIDE open! But when it comes to TRUTH and the word of God... it is shut. I believe God he is smarter than me.

I don't understand how it works otherwise cozyk. What? Do you get to pick what you believe in the bible? How does that work anyway?? Inquiring" narrow minded thinkers" want to know.

Grommit , De Maria, Sam,

This is a direct quote from the word of God. My sins and inquities will be remembered NO MORE.

I can't find it. Will you post the reference.


I will NEVER stand before the Lord Jesus and give an acccount for my SINS. I will give an account of my life after salvation. The bible is clear on this subject.

Yes, the Bible is clear. This is what St. Paul says to believers:

1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.


I still do sin but like John says... If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. We have no license to continue on in sin and the Lord will SURELY deal with us if we do.

... if we confess...

Then you understand that you must repent of sin. Good.


I kind of smile in amazement at people that actually think they have to WORK their way to heaven AFTER they accept the Lord Jesus as their savior.

I kind of smile in amazement when I meet people who realize that Jesus died for our sins and yet claim they don't have to do anything. Don't you realize that anything worthwhile is worth working for? Don't you believe that Salvation, being united to God for all eternity, is worthwhile?

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


ANYTHING that I may do right, good and pleasing to the Lord... is only because of HIM.

No one denies that. What we deny is the claim that anyone who refuses to walk in the works which God has prepared for them from all eternity will go to heaven.

That would be disobedience. Refer to Heb 5:9 above.


ALL of my righteousness is as a filthy rag to him. ( did you read that?. ALL!! )

Does that mean that you will now refuse to do what is righteous? This is why even our works are God's gift. Because although our works are dirty rags, He rewards us for them.


I couldn't be good enough before or AFTER salvation. He redeemed me. He bought me, He cleansed me. It is all about HIM and HIS work.

Which He accomplishes through me. We are His hands, feet, mouth, eyes. It is through us that Christ works. That is why we are called His Body.

So, if you, a member of Christ's body, refuse to work, you will be cut off:

John 15 2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:


My job is to die to myself and Live to please him... unfortunately with my flesh... I fail. And YET HIS promise to me is simple... I will NEVER ( catch that word?) NEVER leave you or forsake you. If we can't believe Jesus at His word... we are in trouble.

Have you not read in Scripture, BY FAITH HE...

Heb 11
4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain,

7By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house;

8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

It is because we have faith in God that we work in obedience to His Word.

Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

It is lack of faith which leads us not to work. And without faith, we are condemned, because without faith, we can't please God:

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Do you not know that our works perfect our faith:
James 2:22
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?


John also says in his epistle... The blood of Jesus Christ, HIS SON, cleanses us from ALL sin. Funny, I always thought ALL meant ALL. Go figure?

It doesn't always.

If you say, "I invited all to my party." Did you really invite all? No, you invited all that you knew or all your friends.

In the same way, Jesus Christ cleanses us from all "repented" sin. But if there are any unrepented sins, they will not be cleansed until you repent of them completely. And repentance is more than giving lip service. Repentance is repayment.

Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

It is doing you best to make things right again. Simply saying, "I'm sorry I busted your window." Is not enough. Not in this world and not in the world to come.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Not as long as you use something as "shakey" as the bible to get your facts.

1. In what sense is the Bible shakey?
2. Are you a Christian who doesn't believe in the Bible?
3. If you aren't a Christian, why are you responding to questions about Christianity? Is there some reason why you don't believe this person is expecting a Christian response?

classyT,
As I understand it from what Jesus and the apostles say, only after we are sorry for our sins, confess that we are sinners and ask for forgiveness are our sins forgiven, washed away.
Since most of us sin often that means we must not assume that doing that one time is enough.
We must do so continually and forgive others who sin against us or our sins will not be forgiven.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Shakey huh? I believe it is absolute truth. And by the way... my mind is WIDE open! But when it comes to TRUTH and the word of God... it is shut. I believe God he is smarter than me.

I don't understand how it works otherwise cozyk. What? Do you get to pick what you believe in the bible? How does that work anyway?? Inquiring" narrow minded thinkers" want to know.

We all know what you believe and why you believe it.

"It's God's word"
"It's in the bible"
"The bible is absolutely literally truth"
"There is only one TRUTH"
Your way equals the fundamentalist christian way equals the only way.

Your mind is closed shut to any other ways, possibilities, or variables.
It's fine to whole heartedly believe what we do. But to insist that what we believe is the only way to believe is what is narrow minded.

I noticed that most every opinion you have is based off scripture. Even down to you being 4 yrs. Old and accepting Christ as your savior. "A child shall lead them". It makes me wonder if you are just following the rules or if you actually have intuitive feelings. Thoughts or beliefs that come to you from your gut. An internal dialogue with God that speaks to you. A deeper place than just what you read and choose to accept as 100% factual.

1. In what sense is the Bible shakey?
2. Are you a Christian who doesn't believe in the Bible?
3. If you aren't a Christian, why are you responding to questions about Christianity? Is there some reason why you don't believe this person is expecting a Christian response?

I have been a christian all my life, but as the years progressed I constantly was faced with christian beliefs that made me want to say... "HOLD THE BUS! "Don't speak for me as an organization and proclaim what I as a christian HAVE to believe about this or that because I don't."

I don't want to be called a christian if it means I have to just shut up and accept. Accept anything the bible or christian leaders tell me when it does not resonate as truth with my heart, brain, conscience, soul, and gut. That is where my truth lies. I don't think people give their internal voices enough credit. I think I would call myself a free thinker with an excess amount of christian baggage.

About the bible being shaky. I and many others have spoken about the many translations, interpretations, it's adherence to the times in which it was written, and other factors that could contribute to it's huge room for error. Not only do I not understand how people can't see that, I don't know how they don't take it as a strong probability.

cozyk ,
I believe the bible because I believe God has preserved His word therein.
Yes, there are several different versions with some differences, but the latest accepted versions are the best and most accurate, this I know and believe.
I believe that God is faithful, Therefore so is His word.
So I must do as best I can to be fathful to it.
That is why I accept the bible and what it says.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Dear...
I understand your point view, and I see what is it you have in your bag.. Any one who choose to read and learn, will need answers, and when answers become the source of confused, it become harder to believe..
I did read and study the Bible, and most of it was using the Aramaic.. I believe that you are right about the way people translated the Bible to a different languages and too many believes.. But the main idea of any believe is FAITH.. And I think you have it, and because you have it, you are looking for the truth.. I will ask you to go ahead with your looking, and I hope that you will find it somewhere and understand it.. Because for most of us.. Some shadowed areas are still not easy to understand.. So I will say to you, God bless you, and good luck with your search. By the way.. I don't mean to make it sound a big thing, but if you please not use the word shaky when talking about the Bible? Some of us will not understand what you mean and will take it the wrong way... Like I said, I see your point view and I understand your looking for the truth... God bless you
Peace
Sam

We all know what you believe and why you believe it.

"It's God's word"
"It's in the bible"
"The bible is absolutely literally truth"
"There is only one TRUTH"
Your way equals the fundamentalist christian way equals the only way.

Your mind is closed shut to any other ways, possibilities, or variables.
It's fine to whole heartedly believe what we do. But to insist that what we believe is the only way to believe is what is narrow minded.

I noticed that most every opinion you have is based off of scripture. Even down to you being 4 yrs. old and accepting Christ as your savior. "A child shall lead them". It makes me wonder if you are just following the rules or if you actually have intuitive feelings. Thoughts or beliefs that come to you from your gut. An internal dialogue with God that speaks to you. A deeper place than just what you read and choose to accept as 100% factual.

Cozyk,

I may have accepted the Lord young but I do NOT view Christianity as rules or even as a religion. It is for me a relationship with my savior. He knows me, he loves me in spite of me and he accepts me. My personalty is such that I could never just take what someone throws my way and gobble it up because they said so. I'm surprised you would think so. I don't think ANYTHING I have posted would suggest I would. When you have a personal relationship with the God of the universe it is an exciting thing. So, doubt no more.

The Lord Jesus said he was the way, the truth and the life... if my mind is closed to "other ways" than it is because I believe what Jesus said. AND I might add... what a wonderful compliment for you to say that most every opinion I have is based of scripture. Thank you very much. I hope so. His word is TRUTH. And when the Lord speaks to me through that internal dialogue you spoke of... He NEVER says things contrary to the word. The Lord places his word above his name!! WOW that is HUGE. Being a Christ follower... what else CAN I do? I know where I stand and it sure beats being a wishy washy, lukewarm, milquetoast, mush lover that picks and chooses out of the bible what is truth and what is somewhat questionable. (Hows about that for a opinion of my own.) :p I do NOT want to be caught tossed too and fro grabbing at every so called new intelligent thought that comes through the mind of a mere man. I believe God. Call me what you want. I know whom I believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep what I have committed unto him until that day!

I can't find it. Will you post the reference.



Yes, the Bible is clear. This is what St. Paul says to believers:

1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.



...if we confess...

Then you understand that you must repent of sin. Good.



I kind of smile in amazement when I meet people who realize that Jesus died for our sins and yet claim they don't have to do anything. Don't you realize that anything worthwhile is worth working for? Don't you believe that Salvation, being united to God for all eternity, is worthwhile?

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;



No one denies that. What we deny is the claim that anyone who refuses to walk in the works which God has prepared for them from all eternity will go to heaven.

That would be disobedience. Refer to Heb 5:9 above.



Does that mean that you will now refuse to do what is righteous? This is why even our works are God's gift. Because although our works are dirty rags, He rewards us for them.



Which He accomplishes through me. We are His hands, feet, mouth, eyes. It is through us that Christ works. That is why we are called His Body.

So, if you, a member of Christ's body, refuse to work, you will be cut off:

John 15 2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:



Have you not read in Scripture, BY FAITH HE....

Heb 11
4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain,

7By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house;

8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

It is because we have faith in God that we work in obedience to His Word.

Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

It is lack of faith which leads us not to work. And without faith, we are condemned, because without faith, we can't please God:

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Do you not know that our works perfect our faith:
James 2:22
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?



It doesn't always.

If you say, "I invited all to my party." Did you really invite all? No, you invited all that you knew or all your friends.

In the same way, Jesus Christ cleanses us from all "repented" sin. But if there are any unrepented sins, they will not be cleansed until you repent of them completely. And repentance is more than giving lip service. Repentance is repayment.

Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

It is doing you best to make things right again. Simply saying, "I'm sorry I busted your window." Is not enough. Not in this world and not in the world to come.

Sincerely,

De Maria

De Maria,

OK OK... it wasn't a direct quote. I should have said it was a paraphrase.. sorryyou asked for this earlier and I forgot to put it out... here you go Hebrews 8:

10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."[a]

I believe we need to confess our sins and repent ALWAYS... please do not misunderstand me. I do not believe we can continue to live in Known sin and get away with it... there is plenty of scripture to back it up.

I do NOT believe one can lose their salvation if they are really saved andif you would like to start a discussion on it we can. Although I think all of us have discussed it and NONE are about it change their position.

I just read the "repayment comment"... sorry I know you are sincere but I couldn't my debt to the Lord the first time and I can't pay it now. That does not mean I do not think you don't need to repent. It DOES mean that it doesn't KEEP my salvation.

"

I don't want to be called a christian if it means I have to just shut up and accept. Accept anything the bible or christian leaders tell me when it does not resonate as truth with my heart, brain, conscience, soul, and gut. That is where my truth lies.

WEll now Cozyk,

HEY!! I FIgired it out for you!! ( I know you wanted me to)

My bible tells me this... The Heart is deceitful about ALL things and DESPERATLY wicked. It is in every translation. Jesus says HE is truth and again His word is truth. Your conscience, soul, gut, heart and brain... are part of your flesh that needed to be redeemed because it is sinful. So see, I have helped you out!! Truth does NOT lie in your flesh. Don't thank me though... I am just here on amhd to do what I can to enlighten mankind (or womankind) with all of my wisdom. (narrow minded thinking and all) :D

Dear Fred..
Thank you for the way you look and understand things the way it is..
My friend.. I have one little thing to add, and I think you agree,, Confessing means to accept and coerect your sin, to understand what wrong you've done and the want to change it.. On the other hand, Some of us think that Confessing is just going to Church and tell about your sin, and that's it...
I believe that to gain forgiveness like it is in the Bible, have more in it than telling anyone about our sin... again, To confess, is to realize our mistakes and to fix them.. It's a way for us to be forgiven that the Lord made for us, And my friend I think you know, even I'm sure you know that some of us, like to use that part as a way to sin.. That's not how it should be... The true want and the real motives in us, must be what move us to reach that level... We all are sinners, And we all ask for forgiveness or why do we ask for it in the first place?
I've been looking around, and I saw most of what you wrote, and I believe that you are a smart person, and a very intelligent one too.. I saw between the lines, some one that really can tell the different between right and wrong, and if so, I think you will not choose the wrong because you know that you will be forgiven, See, that is what some do, and that is why I wrote what I wrote,, I know I don't know a lot, and I know that I maybe wrong about too many things, and I have been... And I know that some one will use what we write out here, as a way to make their choices, That is why I try to be careful of what we say in here, because I don't want to be a part of some one else's sin..
Peace
Sam

WEll now Cozyk,

HEY!!!! I FIgired it out for ya!!! ( i know you wanted me to)

My bible tells me this...The Heart is deceitful about ALL things and DESPERATLY wicked. It is in every translation. Jesus says HE is truth and again His word is truth. Your conscience, soul, gut, heart and brain....are part of your flesh that needed to be redeemed because it is sinful. so see, I have helped you out!!!! Truth does NOT lie in your flesh. don't thank me though....I am just here on amhd to do what i can to enlighten mankind (or womankind) with all of my wisdom. (narrow minded thinking and all) :D

You know what cozyk,

Ignore what I said I do believe it but it wasn't a kind way to say it. I'm having a bad week and I am taking it out on some woman on askmehelpdesk that isn't agreeing with me and giving me reddies. You are so entiled to your opinion and my sarcasm is not Christian like... sorry. You'd like me in real life... I'm not nearly as obnoxious. Just struggling with marriage issues... it isn't your fault. :(

WEll now Cozyk,

HEY!!!! I FIgired it out for ya!!! ( i know you wanted me to)

My bible tells me this...The Heart is deceitful about ALL things and DESPERATLY wicked. It is in every translation. Jesus says HE is truth and again His word is truth. Your conscience, soul, gut, heart and brain....are part of your flesh that needed to be redeemed because it is sinful. so see, I have helped you out!!!! Truth does NOT lie in your flesh. don't thank me though....I am just here on amhd to do what i can to enlighten mankind (or womankind) with all of my wisdom. (narrow minded thinking and all) :D

Once again, no original thought. You find a scripture to speak for you each time. Then you add sarcasm to the mix. And call it funny:D So... no you haven't helped me out. You have just shown me how in charge your ego is.

I think I am two parts, my flesh, this vessel that walks around this planet, it has an ego that is powerful and wants to survive and win at all times. Another word for ego is "the enemy", satin, or the flesh. It's the part that is proud, selfish, petty, needs to be right and basically looking out for number one.

The other part of me, not my flesh is my conscience. The little voice that tells me the real truth. When I speak of my soul, gut, heart , brain, they all contribute to my conscience.
It is my "inner christ" I use that term for lack of a better word. But it remains pure and it KNOWS what is the right thing to do, think, behave, etc. It is in constant conflict with my ego because the flesh is so weak, and wants what it wants, now.

I think I must have hit a nerve with that "narrow minded" thing because you continue to bring it up. I explained what I meant by that in another post. Please don't take it so hard.

You know what cozyk,

ignore what i said I do believe it but it wasn't a kind way to say it. I'm having a bad week and I am taking it out on some woman on askmehelpdesk that isn't agreeing with me and giving me reddies. you are so entiled to your opinion and my sarcasm is not Christian like... sorry. You'd like me in real life...i'm not nearly as obnoxious. Just struggling with marriage issues ....it isn't your fault. :(

Wouldn't you know it. After I hit the submit answer button, I saw this post. :p I'm sorry you are having such a bad week. We've all been there-done that. I absolutely accept your apology and I'm sorry for coming off less than christ like too. ( The devil made me do it) I think I'd like you in real life too. No one could ever say you were wishy washy.

cozyk,

I apologized for my sarcastic comment and I never once called myself funny. I do not have some great ego nor am I narrowminded. I have no other source other than the word of God and I don't want one. Man has yet to have an original thought. I will stick to the only truth I know, have or will ever need.

You are entitled to believe what you want to. I'm not going to change your mind.

Dear...
I understand your point view, and I see what is it you have in your bag.. Any one who choose to read and learn, will need answers, and when answers become the source of confused, it become harder to believe..
I did read and study the Bible, and most of it was using the Aramaic.. I believe that you are right about the way people translated the Bible to a different languages and too many believes.. But the main idea of any believe is FAITH.. And I think you have it, and because you have it, you are looking for the truth.. I will ask you to go ahead with your looking, and I hope that you will find it somewhere and understand it.. Because for most of us.. Some shadowed areas are still not easy to understand.. So I will say to you, God bless you, and good luck with your search. By the way.. I don't mean to make it sound a big thing, but if you please not use the word shaky when talking about the Bible? Some of us will not understand what you mean and will take it the wrong way... Like I said, I see your point view and I understand your looking for the truth... God bless you
Peace
Sam

Thank you Sam for your kind words and your attempts to understand where I'm coming from. And, I'm sure I can come up with a better word than "shaky" and I'll be working on that. You are right. I think a lot of good can be gotten from the bible and I don't mean to throw the baby out with the bathwater. " :o Dear Lord, please help me choose my words more carefully.:o "

Wouldn't you know it. After I hit the submit answer button, I saw this post. :p I'm sorry you are having such a bad week. We've all been there-done that. I absolutely accept your apology and I'm sorry for coming off less than christ like too. ( The devil made me do it) I think I'd like you in real life too. No one could ever say you were wishy washy.

cozyk,

Lol.. thanks. :)

cozyk,

lol..thanks. :)

You are welcome. Thank YOU. Now, peace... :)

samdarwen,
Thank you very much.
Fred

from what i've heard, you won't go to heaven if you have sex before marriage. my friend and her boyfriend are really close, and she has told me she might have sex with him. they are sixteen, and i'm not sure what to tell her. she also asked me this: "if i have sex with him, will i go to hell?"

so i guess my question is, will she go to hell, and how do i stop her?!

Well first... according to the Bible, only 144,000 humans will be granted the gift of heavenly life. This is the "little flock" that Jesus referred to. Jesus also referred to the "other sheep" that he would be the shepherd over along with that "little flock". Revelation 7 and Revelation 14 show that these 144,000 are NOT literal Jews (going by the 12 tribe listed in Revelation), but they are the ones who were "bought from the earth". The "other sheep" are also mentioned in Revelation, but are referred to as the "great crowd" which is a group so large they are not specifically numbered. These are the ones who will realize God's original purpose for mankind by enjoying everlasting life in perfect health here on the earth in paradise.

Secondly, God's arrangement (as set forth in the Bible) is that sexual relations are only to be engaged in by a legally married man and woman. NO sexual activity is permissible before marriage, and it is certainly not permissible in God's sight that it be engaged in by members of the same sex. Those actions fall under "fornication" which God views as a serious sin. But remember that when Jesus was on earth, he preached to people about the need for repentance. They have to recognize that what they were doing was wrong and stop doing it. If they did that, they would have the opportunity to have their sins forgiven, and through their faith in Jesus' sacrifice, may have that hope of everlasting life.

16 year olds really have no place even dating, let alone engaging in sexual relations. You shouldn't threaten the daughter with "going to hell" if she doesn't stop her activity with her boyfriend. The threat of going to "everlasting fire of hell" is something false religion has been doing for countless centuries to keep their people in line, even though there is absolutely no such thing as hellfire. If your friend has any love for God or any sense of spirituality on her own, do your best to reason with her from the Bible showing that God has a set arrangement for when and by who sexual activities should be engaged in... and the situation she's in now is not part of that arrangement.