Hello:

When I read a newspaper or watch a TV newscast, I don't think I'm being lead. I think I'm being talked to. When I see a movie, I don't see someone trying to influence me. I see them trying to entertain me.

In my view, these two entities reflect society - they don't lead it.

Apparently, there are others of you who disagree. I see the media and Hollywood being blamed for all sorts of society's ills all the time, and on THESE pages too. I say what?? Clearly, there are those of you who feel as though Hollywood and/or the Media DOES influence your thinking and your activities... And, they do so PURPOSEFULLY. I suspect you think there's a great left wing liberal conspiracy going on. Yes??

If so, please report. Come on, you can tell me.

excon

It's the right-wing's way of life: 'the media made me do it', it absolves them from personal responsibility.

Hello excon: You have posed a neat observation and question. I am certain that the news media and Hollywood try to shape public opinion and attitudes. My recollection is that in 1969, Newsweek Magazine and 60 Minutes on CBS were doing everything they could to disengage the U.S. from Vietnam. Particularly on 60 Minutes, there was no balance. I haven't watched 60 Minutes since then, with the exception of the Hillary and Bill show in 1992. The demise in readership of the mainstream newspapers continues as well from what I hear. Of course, it is on purpose. And just as Mr. O'Reilly says, if you want balance, read the editorial page from The New York Times and The Wallstreet Journal. Influence me? No way.

Hello George:

Thanks for your comments.

I don't know. I think I'm a fairly politically astute and somewhat intelligent individual. While I didn't read Newsweek, I DID watch 60 minutes during the Vietnam war, and I still do. I DID enjoy Dan Rather.

I have to tell you that, in all candor, when I read that some believe (as you do), that they were actively promoting a political agenda, I didn't see it. Maybe I missed it, but I don't think I did.

excon

It's the right-wing's way of life: 'the media made me do it', it absolves them from personal responsibility.

Is that your alternate reality, NK, because the right is leading the charge for personal responsibility. We aren't the ones trying to ban trans fats and Fox News.

So why do some conservatives blame movies and the media for "corrupting" people? Can't people think for themselves?

.... And, they do so PURPOSEFULLY. I suspect you think there's a great left wing liberal conspiracy going on. Yes????

If so, please report. Come on, you can tell me.

excon
For your further study: Media Bias Basics (http://www.mediaresearch.org/biasbasics/biasbasics3.asp)

And: NewsBusters.org | Exposing Liberal Media Bias (http://www.newsbusters.org/)

I turned off network TV news 35 years ago so it doesn't bother me at all.

When I read a newspaper or watch a TV newscast, I don't think I'm being lead. I think I'm being talked to. When I see a movie, I don't see someone trying to influence me. I see them trying to entertain me.

When I read a paper or watch the news, I'm not being led either - but I see less and less reporting and more and more analysis disguised as news. As for Hollywood, yeah they're trying to entertain me but if you can't see the messages they're sending, regardless of which side they're from, you aren't paying attention.


In my view, these two entities reflect society - they don't lead it.

To a degree it does reflect society, but in what universe is Michael Moore's Sicko, Fahrenheit 9/11 or Brokeback Mountain not trying to shape society? Filmmakers are not shy about their intent to influence culture and too many already acknowledge the impact it has.

Fields of Fuel (http://www.fieldsoffuel.com/cast)
Indie filmmakers and their influence on modern culture (http://www.helium.com/items/312659-indie-filmmakers-and-their-influence-on-modern-culture)
George Lucas Speaks About Hollywood's Influence on Society (http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2006/03/24/george_lucas_speaks_about_hollywood_s_in)
Saving the environment, one celebrity at a time (http://media.www.fairfieldmirror.com/media/storage/paper148/news/2008/05/01/Entertainment/Saving.The.Environment.One.Celebrity.At.A.Time-3357456.shtml)

You can find these all day, ex. Fortunately however, Hollywood's influence is waning as the box office receipts for so many activist movies recently has shown.


Apparently, there are others of you who disagree. I see the media and Hollywood being blamed for all sorts of society's ills all the time, and on THESE pages too. I say what?? Clearly, there are those of you who feel as though Hollywood and/or the Media DOES influence your thinking and your activities... And, they do so PURPOSEFULLY. I suspect you think there's a great left wing liberal conspiracy going on. Yes??

Apparently both sides think so, ex. The left thinks there's a vast right-wing conspiracy in the media and the right thinks there is a vast left-wing conspiracy. Who's right? Where does the evidence lead? I say it's decidedly tilted to the left - as do many studies, surveys and admissions from the media themselves. The BBC admitted it (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56228), ABC's News Political Chief admitted it (http://technorati.com/videos/youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DcSFYNyZmaX0), NPR admitted it (http://www.mediaresearch.org/BozellColumns/newscolumn/2003/col20031021.asp), Chris Matthews gets a thrill up his leg from Obama for crying out loud.

Hello again, George:

Sending me to conservative web sites that mirror your opinion doesn't do it for me. I certainly didn't think you were alone.

excon

Here is more reading for you:
Media bias in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_media_bias)

Media Bias : the media is saturated with bias (http://www.rushlimbaughonline.com/articles/mediabias.htm)

What Liberal Media? --Eric Alterman (http://www.whatliberalmedia.com/)

the right is leading the charge for personal responsibility.
Yeah, "We don't torture, it's those 'bad apples' that did it". Bwa HaHaHa!!

Hello again, Steve:

There's a difference between news and analysis. I have no trouble making the distinction. Most people can't. Or maybe I should say most right winged people can't.

excon

To a degree it does reflect society, but in what universe is Michael Moore's Sicko, Fahrenheit 9/11 or Brokeback Mountain not trying to shape society? You're not listening - in a society where the people have free will and personal responsibility you can throw all messages at them and let them decide. What do want? More censorship? A bigger government to oversee and protect you?

In my view, these two entities reflect society - they don't lead it.
I agree. I'd include politics as well. It's all demand-driven.

So why do some conservatives blame movies and the media for "corrupting" people? Can't people think for themselves?

Why do you pick on Fox News?

Sorry mate, I don't follow you.

You're not listening - in a society where the people have free will and personal responsibility you can throw all messages at them and let them decide. What do want? More censorship? A bigger government to oversee and protect you?

I'm not listening? LOL, I never said anything about censorship, we're not the ones screaming to restore the Fairness Doctrine - it is the left that wants to mandate "fairness" in media and silence Rush Limbaugh and Fox News. It is the left that is championing hate speech laws, speech codes and intolerance toward conservatives and their ideas. What are they afraid of?

Hello again:

Let's look at Brokeback Mountain... First off, I didn't see it. Second off, it appears to be a love story about two gay cowboys.

You, and your right winged cohorts however, see something else. Maybe you can tell me why. Do you doubt there's homosexuality in the world? Do you doubt that some were cowboys? Should their story not be told? Is telling their story promoting homosexuality? Or is it just telling their story. Is a love story between a man and a woman promoting heterosexuality? Does a love story promote anything other than love? I don't know. You tell me.

excon

I view hate speech in the same vein as yelling "Fire" in a crowded theatre. Rush falls into that category. "Intolerance towards conservatives"? If this website is any subset than the intolerance is towards anything liberal.

Hello again, Steve:

There's a difference between news and analysis. I have no trouble making the distinction. Most people can't. Or maybe I should say most right winged people can't.

Isn't that what I said, there's a difference between news and analysis? Seems I made the distinction just fine.

I view hate speech in the same vein as yelling "Fire" in a crowded theatre. Rush falls into that category. "Intolerance towards conservatives"? If this website is any subset than the intolerance is towards anything liberal.

Examples please. I've heard more than enough Rush to know what you guys consider "hate speech" is usually satire. Can't tell the difference? Don't have a sense of humor? I'm not intolerant toward liberals, NK, some of my best friends are liberals. Many liberal ideas have merit and there are plenty of fair-minded liberals. What I'm intolerant of is this penchant for the radical left to dismiss conservatives and conservatism completely and to ignore all evidence contrary to their claims.

I'm not intolerant toward liberals, NK, some of my best friends are liberals. I doubt you have many liberal friends, I also doubt your claims of tolerance, my evidence is your history of posts here.

What I'm intolerant of is this penchant for the radical left to dismiss conservatives and conservatism completely and to ignore all evidence contrary to their claims.That's odd since this board was quite free of political slandering of one party against another until you guys arrived.

Hello again:

Let's look at Brokeback Mountain... First off, I didn't see it. Second off, it appears to be a love story about two gay cowboys.

You, and your right winged cohorts however, see something else. Maybe you can tell me why. Do you doubt there's homosexuality in the world? Do you doubt that some were cowboys? Should their story not be told? Is telling their story promoting homosexuality? Or is it just telling their story. Is a love story between a man and a woman promoting heterosexuality? Does a love story promote anything other than love?? I dunno. You tell me.

Why didn't you pick the other two examples? Fine then, tell the story, that's what movies are for - but if you can't get the fact that the story is told to promote sympathy for gays then maybe you aren't as sharp as I thought, ex. If we would only abandon our prejudices then these two cowboys could have lived and loved out in the open without fear and gays would no longer be victims of intolerance. Maybe that's a message you approve of and that's fine, but it IS purposefully sending a message hoping to influence our culture. How can you deny that? It happens on both sides, Lord of the Rings, the Chronicles of Narnia, Juno, etc. but the liberal message is far more prevalent. It ain't just storytelling...

Every story has a message, ideas ,a subject. Yes some are created to provoke a reaction to teach as well as entertain. You don't think so ? Then why the rash of antiIraq war movies ? Do you think their sole purpose is to entertain or are they tugging at the emotions of the audience they are trying to influence?

What is The Hulk promoting?
What agenda is Indiana Jones promoting?
Can't wait to hear your ideas on Sex and The City.
What about Get Smart? Does that have an underlying sinister message?

Then why the rash of antiIraq war movies ?Why aren't there any pro-Iraq war movies?

I doubt you have many liberal friends, I also doubt your claims of tolerance, my evidence is your history of posts here.

You have no idea, NK. If you'd look you'd see that with most non-conservatives here we actually discuss things, not just butt heads. I've even agreed with you a number of times and I respect that. That's the difference, is their mutual respect or is it just intolerance? So far the most intolerance I've seen here is from one person... and it ain't me.


That's odd since this board was quite free of political slandering of one party against another until you guys arrived.

Prove it.

What is The Hulk promoting?
What agenda is Indiana Jones promoting?
Can't wait to hear your ideas on Sex and The City.
What about Get Smart? Does that have an underlying sinister message?

I have no idea, but because all movies don't have an underlying message does that mean that none do?

I have no idea, but because all movies don't have an underlying message does that mean that none do?Sure man, you find the messages if you're really looking for them. Spend some time watching all those movies and dig out the nasty messages.

Sure man, you find the messages if you're really looking for them. Spend some time watching all those movies and dig out the nasty messages.

It was a simple question, NK.

but if you can't get the fact that the story is told to promote sympathy for gays then maybe you aren't as sharp as I thought, ex. If we would only abandon our prejudices then these two cowboys could have lived and loved out in the open without fear and gays would no longer be victims of intolerance. Maybe that's a message you approve of and that's fine, but it IS purposefully sending a message hoping to influence our culture. How can you deny that? It ain't just storytelling...Hello again, Steve:

I see no purpose other than to tell a love story. I see no message. I wasn't lying when I posed my question. Maybe I'm not as sharp as you thought.

But, like all good stories, it makes you think. If YOU drew, from the movie, a conclusion that abandoning our prejudices is a good idea, then that's an idea that sprung from your head. You may draw the conclusion that our prejudices should be even stronger to wipe out such behavior. That too, is a conclusion that you may derive from your own mind having seen the movie.

I maintain, however, that the makers of the movie were making a love story - nothing more.

excon, sharper than you think

PS> I wonder why it's only the right side of the spectrum that sees these hidden messages... I saw plenty of John Wayne movies. Was he sending me secret messages too?

Why aren't there any pro-Iraq war movies?
Why aren't there any pro war movies?

To say that there are not hidden messages and agendas in movies is a bit if a stretch, I think.

To say that Hollywood is responsible is a bit of a stretch too.

Hollywood is just a place, the hidden messages and agendas are from the people making and directing the movies.

Obviously someone, and I use the term loosely, like Michael Moore, is not trying to entertain us, while much of his crap is laughable, that was not his intention.

So I say everyone here is correct, not all movies are to entertain, and not all movies contain hidden messages or agendas.

Why aren't there any pro war movies?
You're kidding, right? That's the only kind of war movies there were during and after WWII.

Hello:

When I read a newspaper or watch a TV newscast, I don't think I'm being lead. I think I'm being talked to. When I see a movie, I don't see someone trying to influence me. I see them trying to entertain me.

In my view, these two entities reflect society - they don't lead it.

Apparently, there are others of you who disagree. I see the media and Hollywood being blamed for all sorts of society's ills all the time, and on THESE pages too. I say what????? Clearly, there are those of you who feel as though Hollywood and/or the Media DOES influence your thinking and your activities.... And, they do so PURPOSEFULLY. I suspect you think there's a great left wing liberal conspiracy going on. Yes????

If so, please report. Come on, you can tell me.

excon

Excon,
Not sure about the political side of things.

As a mother,wife and just a concerned woman when it comes to young teens/adults- I do believe what they view does influence them in the wrong way unless it is accompanied by the right messages from an adult/parent.

I agree movies and TV programmes do show a lot of realities that exist in our societies,but something's which are not right when presented in a different light makes it seem exciting and fun and something to explore.
Drug use or drinking or smoking or even teenage pregnancies maybe portrayed in a movie in a way that makes it seem it is OK or not as bad as people make it sound.Even teen romances sometimes influence young adults in the wrong way.
Unless as I said before,the right message is being put across to them by adults and parents and teachers and anyone else who can influence them.

Hollywood lifestyle itself is something many youngsters idolise and some have their idols copied to a T.
This I do believe is not totally to be blamed on the media or movies,but parents and adults who look after these kids may not have instilled in them the right values and the right people to idolise.In place of the vacuum of right guidance,some teens find TV and movies their guide to life.

Regarding the news media;-
not being from a western country I am able to watch different news channels from various countries and I can compare them and I do find that there are some news more covered on some channels while others are not.
For example Britney Spears(and other celebrities) keeps popping up in the international news channels for the wrong reasons.Very few celebrities are mentioned for their humanitarian or any other good works that affect the good of society.

Some channels balance by showing two sides of the same story which is rare but there are some news networks that seem to ignore one side of the story.
Unless a person is well read or aware of the world happenings regarding politics etc,it is hard for them not to be biased by the media.

Some are ill informed and very few actually take the time (or have the time) to verify news reports to make sure whether it is true or not.

I do believe media and movies and TV does influence some in a negative way and others in a good way.

EDIT::One thing I forgot to mention was that those who have the money and time to back up any media(newspaper or movie,news etc) will surely use their influence to sway whomever they want to target their ideas/products to.

You're kidding, right? That's the only kind of war movies there were during and after WWII.
Care to name any? Obviously, war movies during WW II were propaganda; we can dismiss those, right? Even though not created by neo-cons?

Newspapers, TV, movies, radio, the whole lot are ENTERTAINMENT. That is not to say that some movies have a "message" such as war is hell. Or, on the radio, some blowhard is *selling* Fascism to angry folks. Or, on television, just about everything is trash except my home decorating shows...

Many Americans are impressionable today; the fundiEv Christians have rejected education and intellectual growth, so they are very prone to believing BS. They don't know how to think and like to accept simple, magical solutions to America's problems. There are no simple solutions to complicated problems. So, they believe anyone who speaks simply about problems and with anger and blame and shouting... it makes "learning" fun! Lol

Educated folks know how to think for themselves. :)

Never forget: the all the media is about MAKING MONEY, so they have to appeal to the lowest common denominator to draw in the revenue in most cases. There are a few exceptions like "Meet the Press"... that's why so many Americans were hit so hard by the death of Tim Russert... he was an honest man, a fairminded man. He stood out because the rest of the men were sell outs, unremarkable.

What is The Hulk promoting?
What agenda is Indiana Jones promoting?
Can't wait to hear your ideas on Sex and The City.
What about Get Smart?

Have not seen them all yet.

Did see the newest Indiana Jones and there was a definite black and white hero and villain ;the American was the hero and the Russian was the villain .

I am familiar with the story of the Hulk and it clearly has an anti-nuke message . The main character got a dose of radiation while building a gamma bomb.

Get Smart ? If it follows the television series it probably is a spoof on James Bond movies .

Sex and the City . No comment but I'm sure there is a social message in there and gaging from the shows popularity it probably did influence the lifestyle of some women...

Pro Iraq war movies ? None yet from Hollywierd but Bruce Willis is planning to produce a film that tells the story of the bravery of U.S. combat troops in Iraq and their success in liberating the Iraqi people.

Newspapers, TV, movies, radio, the whole lot are ENTERTAINMENT...Or, on the radio, some blowhard is *selling* Fascism to angry folks.

Many Americans are impressionable today; the fundiEv Christians have rejected education and intellectual growth, so they are very prone to believing BS. They don't know how to think and like to accept simple, magical solutions to America's problems. There are no simple solutions to complicated problems. So, they believe anyone who speaks simply about problems and with anger and blame and shouting....it makes "learning" fun!! lol

"Meet the Press"....that's why so many Americans were hit so hard by the death of Tim Russert...he was an honest man, a fairminded man. He stood out because the rest of the men were sell outs, unremarkable.
Well, Russert, Matthews, the clowns on 60 minutes, even Brian Lamb, always have deep, furrowed brows when interviewing conservatives; and agreeable, smiling countenances when interviewing fellow libs. So, who is angry and what are they angry about?

Hello again, Steve:

I see no purpose other than to tell a love story. I see no message. I wasn't lying when I posed my question. Maybe I'm not as sharp as you thought.

Ex, you know I don't doubt you're sincerity or how sharp you are, but surely you really don't doubt that Hollywood and the media DO attempt to influence culture and shape political views. I like movies and media of all types that makes me think, but I also don't deny the bias and the intent of much of it, and that it does indeed influence society.


PS> I wonder why it's only the right side of the spectrum that sees these hidden messages... I saw plenty of John Wayne movies. Was he sending me secret messages too?

It's not and I think you know that. If not, I'm always glad to help...

Is "Juno" Anti-Choice? (http://womensissues.about.com/od/teenpregnancy/a/JunoAntiChoice_2.htm)


Negative Depiction of Women's Health Clinics Worries Choice Activist
As the former President of Planned Parenthood Federation of America, Gloria Feldt has fought for many years on the front lines of choice. She was a teen mother at sixteen, and later returned to school to earn a degree and work on behalf of women's reproductive rights.

Feldt's take on Juno comes from her own first-hand experiences, and she spoke to me about why the film worries her.

In the film Juno initially plans to have an abortion. But she changes her mind, partly because she has an unpleasant experience at a women's health clinic. The heavily pierced receptionist is barely older than Juno; she's unprofessional, bored and unfeeling. The depiction of the women's clinic is supposed to be comic. But as the former President of Planned Parenthood Federation of America, you must be bothered by it.

The clinic in Juno is terrible. It's a terribly untrue stereotype. My experience is that the people who work in women's health facilities where abortions are performed are so compassionate. Think about what it takes to work there daily. They have to walk through protesters and picket lines; they have to be committed to what they do. They are passionate in their convictions.

I worked for 22 years for Planned Parenthood affiliates and have seen how people are dedicated to making women feel comfortable.

One man who ran the surgery program (which included abortion and vasectomy) researched what colors were most soothing to women in distress. He found out it was pepto bismol pink and had the walls painted that color.

Patients who come in are in a difficult situation and we try to make it as welcoming to them as possible.

For Juno to deliver that stereotype to audiences shows you one example of how the anti-choice point of view has begun to influence even Hollywood, which everyone regards as left wing. They've gotten their point of view into the intellectual ether of our county.

The screenwriter, Diablo Cody, once worked as a stripper and writes a blog called Ranch. One might expect her to have a liberal attitude but in many ways the views are conservative. Do you have thoughts on this?

It would be amusing if it weren't so distressing that a woman whose profession has been in the sex trade would express this in her writing. I have two thoughts about this:

The first is "Good for her that she has the talent to write a commercially successful film."

The second is that we all have social responsibility for what we communicate through our words. And as a former stripper, of all people she should understand our society's retrograde attitudes toward women and sex...


Juno is the latest in a series of recent movies in which the heroine, faced with an unexpected pregnancy, chooses not to have an abortion.

Others include Knocked Up, Waitress and Bella.

Dr. Vanessa Cullins, vice president for medical affairs at the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, said these story lines — generally with upbeat endings — oversimplify the tough choices facing real-life girls and women.

Each year, more than 1 million of them in the United States opt to have an abortion.

"Hollywood is in this for money and entertainment," Cullins said. "They are shying away from having the characters fully explore all their options when faced with an unplanned pregnancy.

"In the real world, it's important to weigh all the possible options and then come up with the best one for the teen, the family and the child," Cullins added. "That will be different for different circumstances."

Cullins expressed hope that the buzz about teen pregnancies would prompt candid conversations between parents and children about relationships, values and how to avoid unintended pregnancies through abstinence or effective contraception.

National statistics released earlier this month showed the teen birth rate on the rise for the first time in 15 years.

Absence of alternatives
Demie Kurz, a sociologist who co-directs the University of Pennsylvania's women's studies program, noted that the Juno heroine and Jamie Lynn Spears come from well-off families and do not represent the many girls from low-income backgrounds who get pregnant.

"Some of them have the babies as part of their path to what they see as adulthood, but they often put their education on hold, and it makes life a lot tougher," Kurz said. "Do we want to put burdens on these teenage girls by encouraging them to think that having a baby is cool?"

She said it was reflective of the U.S. political climate that few movies depict abortion as a valid option.

"There should be a responsibility to portray a young person who makes a reasonable choice to have an abortion, or take the morning-after pill," Kurz said. "The absence of films showing alternatives is really upsetting."

The clinic in Juno is terrible. It's a terribly untrue stereotype.LOL! The movie was part comedy! That's like saying that Dumb and Dumber didn't portray pest control people in the right light.

LOL! The movie was part comedy! That's like saying that Dumb and Dumber didn't portray pest control people in the right light.

No one ever accused feminists of having a sense of humor, NK.

Wait in Juno she went to planned parenthood? I guess I missed that part because I was thinking damn the character Juno is annoying how much longer do I have to sit through this stupid movie. I would imagine that a lot of kids and people who won't think for themselves are influenced by movies and the media. I think a lot of people are to lazy to think for themselves so they actually believe everything they see on TV. But if any move has taught me anything it would be Jaws! Don't kill a great white shark because a great white shark's family will hold a grudge forever and they WILL come after you ;)

But if any move has taught me anything it would be Jaws! Don't kill a great white shark because a great white shark's family will hold a grudge forever and they WILL come after you ;)

What I learned from Jaws, "You're gonna need a bigger boat."

The difference is there are some people who are easily influenced and some who are not.
You just happen to be one of the ones that is not influenced.
Look at all the pranks that as soon as they are done on South Park and other shows
*idiots* are out doing the very same thing.
Just 2 Examples:
Fire in the hole
Kids riding on the cab roof of pick up trucks. Two got killed by a tree limb in Erie, Pa.

The difference is there are some people who are easily influenced and some who are not.
you just happen to be one of the ones that is not influenced.
Look at all the pranks that as soon as they are done on South Park and other shows
*idiots* are out doing the very same thing.
Just 2 Examples:
Fire in the hole
Kids riding on the cab roof of pick up trucks. Two got killed by a tree limb in Erie, Pa.See, that's just natural selection doing its job. :)

This is a bunch of biased, opinionated bull crap! *CLICK*

My friends at work nicknamed me "Zohan," ever since this Adam Sandler comedy came out. I have yet to see the movie, but I want to. My sister-in-law said it was silly hilarious.

YouTube - You Don't Mess With The Zohan - In Theaters June 6th (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmMXk0bA8gk)

My friends at work nicknamed me "Zohan," ever since this Adam Sandler comedy came out. I have yet to see the movie, but I want to. My sister-in-law said it was silly hilarious.

YouTube - You Don't Mess With The Zohan - In Theaters June 6th (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmMXk0bA8gk)
Cute: so is this like a 'Borat Sequel'?

I think so, but with more action. I liked Borat also, although it got a bit slow as the movie dragged on between comedy bits.

But you have to admit, the nude wrestling scene was off the hook. Sick but off the hook.

Yes. I had forgotten about that scene. That was funny!

Movies don't influence people, people do... No wait, I got that wrong. Its guns don't kill people, people do! I get confused sometimes with you blokes. In one situation its about personal responsibility, in the other it's a big conspiracy to brainwash people to make the world feel sorry for gay's. Hahahaha!!

Skell, you been out pub hoppin again?

But mags, I agree with his message.

Movies don't influence people, people do... No wait, i got that wrong. Its guns don't kill people, people do!! I get confused sometimes with you blokes.
Hahahaha!!!!

This wasn't you or was it?;)
FOXNews.com - Australian Man Charged With Driving Wheelchair While Drunk on Highway - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,370524,00.html)

But mags, I agree with his message.

Sorry, I just don't like being called a Bloke.

Better than being called a sheila. :)

Skell, you been out pub hoppin again?

LOL! How you know that?? You sound like my missus.

This wasnt you or was it?;)
FOXNews.com - Australian Man Charged With Driving Wheelchair While Drunk on Highway - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,370524,00.html)

Queenslanders... They're only just considered Australians! :D

LOL!! How you know that??? You sound like my missus.

I could just tell by the tone of your voice.

Hello again:

Work with me here, people.

You know I smoke marijuana. Having mentioned that I do, do you then think I'm "promoting" its use? Were I to write a story about my history with pot, would that story "encourage" people to use drugs? Or would it just be a story?

I just want to know how YOU think?

excon

If I identify with you and think that you're a 'cool guy' then my perception might me that it's acceptable. Well that was my thinking when I was 13, today I'm immune to peer pressure - it's nice.

I would think that would depend on how the story was told by you and by the Hollywood maker of the movie.

Did you see the movie directed by Clint Eastwood starring Hillary Swank called 'Million Dollar Babies'. Just a boxing movie right ? Or was there also a message supporting euthenasia inherent in the plot also ?

During it's time the 'Breakfast Club ' was a very popular and influential "coming of age " film. It depicted a bunch of students with little in common;all from a different clique or social group, serving detention in the same class room. However ;after they all sat down with a joint they managed to overcome their differences and bond .
As you know ;the careers of Sean Penn and Matthew McConaughey were launched performing in "stoner" roles.

The reality is that movies are more influential than you think. Why is it that the nuclear industry stalled to a standstill after the movie "The China Syndrome" was made ?

Hello again, tom:

I'm sorry. I don't see it. I just don't.

I think you let the cat out of the bag, though. As long as the story depicts a viewpoint that YOU agree with, it ISN'T somebody manipulating the public. But, if you don't like the viewpoint, they are...

Take my story... If my story was about how pot dragged me down, and made me lazy so that I couldn't live up to my life's potential - you might think I'm NOT trying to tell people anything... But, if my story was how much fun I had being stoned, and how many cute chicks I got by being in the marijuana culture - you'd say THAT story has a message...

I don't know. What if I was just telling my story? Really, nothing more than me telling a story...

Now, I don't argue that the arts AREN'T influential. They ARE, and they SHOULD be. THAT'S why we HAVE a freedom of expression. I do suggest, however, that if the story teller starts by trying to make a point, instead of just telling a story, I think the story will suck, and I think people will see through it.

I can tell you this because I AM an artist, and I'm writing the story I mentioned. I'm going to tell it like it is. If people SEE, in my story, with their own eyes, that the drug laws are unfair, then that's ON THEM. I DIDN'T tell 'em that. I'm only telling my story. In truth, I'm not smart enough to write a good story AND include my political message.

I, thereby, reassert my proposition. My story is going to REFLECT society. If society takes a lead FROM it, then the arts did their job.

I can tell, of course, that you think the arts job is to manipulate. That's why you want limits put upon the arts.

DO you think the arts should depict society as it SHOULD be? I think you do. Doesn't that sound a little 1984 to you?

excon

I think you let the cat out of the bag, though. As long as the story depicts a viewpoint that YOU agree with, it ISN'T somebody manipulating the public. But, if you don't like the viewpoint, they are...


I make no such claim . The war films of WWII were clearly meant to portray a positive image of the war effort. They were clearly movies with a message. I wish there were more of them but I would not make a claim that they are only for the pure entertainment value.

Steve already pointed out contemporary movies that have clear Christian messages. To some they may just be well done cartoons and great entertainment but yes even those are meant to influence the audience.

I can tell, of course, that you think the arts job is to manipulate. That's why you want limits put upon the arts.


Again I have made no such proposition. I am just pointing out what I see as obvious . Yes I make personal judgements on the movies but in no way do I think there should be "limits" ( except perhaps on the age of admission for the obscene and graphic)

Again I have made no such proposition. I am just pointing out what I see as obvious . Yes I make personal judgements on the movies but in no way do I think there should be "limits" ( except perhaps on the age of admission for the obscene and graphic)
And absolutely zero funding from the taxpayers, for my own part.

but yes even those are meant to influence the audience.Hello again, tom:

Of course, there are those filmmakers who DO start with a viewpoint. Notice that I didn't call them artists.

I still think you've got it backwards. A work needs to be appreciated before it can influence. An artist does his art to BE appreciated - NOT to influence.

I'll bet you're not an artist, huh? Don't you draw? Have you ever drawn? Do you take pictures? Do you scribble or doodle stuff on a legal pad?

Is the stuff you create cool looking?? Are your photographs breathtaking? Even if they're not, what if somebody wanted to buy them?

Did you doodle that stuff, or take those pictures hoping to influence somebody? I don't think you did.

excon

I think every aspect of the arts, media, and any form of entertainment are to serve different purposes to society and thus have an effect on it in several ways. OF course some people will have a different perspective on what that purpose is, and consequently, what the effect will be as a result. YES, it is supposed to be a means of self expression and to share ideas, information and different types of creative thought.

HOWEVER, what that means to each person, is as vastly different as each individual is in each society. We are given the opportunity to receive so much information and yet it is interpreted in such a wide spectrum of understanding. Some people include their personal and moral beliefs into their perspectives of what they see, hear, read or watch. Some people simply view it as entertainment and put no thought outside of that whatsover. The amazing thing is, how everyone assumes that everyone else sees the same thing as they do. Just like we all have different beliefs, religions, customs, languages and ways of life, the way we interpret things is just as different.

One person sees Brokeback Mountain as the equivalent as a permission slip to endorse homosexuality and its acceptance by society. Another person simply views a love story between two people. The creators of the movie had their own reasons for making it and what story they wanted to tell, what ideas and perspectives they wanted to portray but they cannot assume or expect anyone else to share those views. IT is through art, media and entertainment ,through movies and t.v. that we are innundated with ideas about how we should look, think, act and what we should buy. Some people see it as brainwashing, to others it is just good marketing skills. IT is all in the eye of the beholder and therefore, to argue about your own perception or view being the right one is a futile point. WHAT makes my view any more or less significant than yours?
Moreover, just like with politics and war and issues about pro life and pro choice, no one is going to change their perspective on what they believe based on a movie, book, piece of art, or literature. ONe may become more open to different views but certainly isn't going to change what they consider the moral fiber that they live by.

The only people who are effected beyond a level of fairness are those that are too young and too impressionable by what they see, hear and take part in learning about. YES children are given all sorts of mixed messages by everything they come into contact with, especially in this critical technological age. HOWEVER< it isn't the media or the culture or entertainment or art that are responsible in what the children are seeing, hearing, watching or reading. THAT responsibility lies with the parents and how they interact and explain to their children what their own perception is. EVERYTHING is an opportunity for parents to understand what their children think, believe and are aware of. These outlets for self expression are also means to connect with kids and find out what they really know and how they think about the world.

YOu can look at it as evil and corrupt, or as educational and an opportunity for children to become critical thinkers. Whether it be about politics, body image, religion, abortion or war, I think anytime a dialogue is available for the youth of any society to actively engage in intellectual debates or perspectives, we are on the right track. HoW else do we expect society to be educated but by the means we are given. It doesn't mean we cannot question it, disagree with it or absolutely live by it, it means its essential to grow and learn as people and as a society.
WE won't ever agree on everything but we can have a meeting of the minds, open up dialogue to appreciate and understand different perspectives, ways of life and issues of morality. NOT a hostile atmosphere, but with an open mind to respect each other's views and agree to disagree. Maybe what we need is less criticism and more awareness and acceptance of other people's differences.

That might be a start.
I am not here to be critical or to argue but to simply show that no one is really right or wrong, it is just like a movie, it is open to each person's perception...

People make and listen to music all day every day to influence others and identify with others.

Actually you have hit upon one of my lesser hobbies. I draw political cartoons . Guess what I start with...

Now my wife is a great photographer (in my opinion) . She is trying to make a beautiful picture. Other photographers on the other hand have taken pictures for the point they are trying to make. Have you ever seen Matthew Brady's Civil War photos of Antietum (or as George likes to say Sharpsburg) ? Not exactly meant for entertainment I think .

Music, as with every other form of entertainment is always open for debate, criticism and perspective and it varies with each person. One person would say a song about war would have an effect on how we view war, another person would just say it has a cool beat and loves the guitar section... OPEN TO INDIVIDUAL PERCEPTION>
I find it interesting that whenever someone finds something objective to say, no one wants to reply but if its critical or accusatory or incites a personal attack, there are multiple responses, WHY?? And lets see who responds to my last post that addresses the opinions of both sides of this argument. (Maybe because I didn't clarify my personal position on these subjects it isn't as interesting.. I don't see the point in putting people into groups of either liberal or conservative, LOTS OF PEOPLE ARE NEITHER!!

Individual preceptions are one thing . I think the point of the posting is what the "artist " intended.

Tom Hanks made 'Saving Private Ryan' to honor that generation and to challenge the current generation to earn the sacrifices made by that generation . I know this because he has said so many times and beyond the most shallow viewing of the movie that point is driven home.

That would contest the statement "When I see a movie, I don't see someone trying to influence me. I see them trying to entertain me" The additional contention that it is only us on the right who notice this has also been fairly disputed .

THe original poster, as well as everyone else cannot know what the artist originally intended, unless their perspective was made explicit by that person . Thus, it is open to interpretation, as with movies or any other form of entertainment or self expression.

Even further, THE effect on society, or attitudes or perception on war will be vastly different for each person who sees Saving Private Ryan, or any other movie. Whether the writer, producer or director had a vision and perception he was trying to share with the masses, really is irrelevant. It may not be received or understood by each person the way he INTENDED. I think the only thing the "right" has proven is that they only view their own moral view as the correct one, and therefore anything that deviates from that is considered immoral, innapropriate or even more, UNAMERICAN.. that is a joke in and of itself.
Even further, the statement about what Tom Hanks said doesn't change the fact that some people wouldn't even consider that notion when watching SAVING PRIVATE RYAN. THAT is just the way it is. Funny thing is, just because that is what he SAID doesn't mean that is how everyone else views or understands it. It will ultimately be their OWN PERCEPTION. Broke back MOuntain could have been made for several reasons, but based on your own personal beliefs about homosexuality, it could make you incapable of viewing it the way that the "WRITER INTENDED" you to see it.

As a matter of fact, INDIVIDUAL PERCEPTION has everything to do with it. For example, the way you view what Excon said and how I view it, is completely different, yet we were given the same information. The same could be said for any other subject. PERIOD.

Also, just as your statements that you have on your signature are again, YOUR PERCEPTION, it does not effect my view or beliefs about OBAMA, even though I am given that information. That is because I am educated and aware of the real issues and of the facts behind the other candidate as well. YOU see a narrow scope and others see a wider one. AGAIN, its in our own beliefs, awareness, education and experience that determine our perspective, NOT the information we are given itself.
THE original poster was trying to make a mockery of what others see as media or other means of self expression, "influencing society" He doesn't agree with it and was clarifying his objections with making a joke of HOLLYWOOD's INFLUENCE on society and whether it's a "left wing Conspiracy". At least that is how I interpreted it and the amazing thing is, that is what makes each one of us different, the ability to think differently. The sad part is, not everyone is respectful of that ability.

think the only thing the "right" has proven is that they only view their own moral view as the correct one, and therefore anything that deviates from that is considered immoral, innapropriate or even more, UNAMERICAN.. that is a joke in and of itself

Yeah I know I've heard it before ;everything in life including morals are relative.

Wow are you actually agreeing with me on something?? I just might fall over... lol I think its time to smoke a big fat one EXCON and we can all sing We are the WORLD lmao... Thanks for keeping an open mind on at least one thing TOMDER... really. Yes.. it really is all relative..

Hello shattered:

Yup. Take a hit of this... By the way. I think you've been making a lot of sense.

excon

Thanks For The Love Excon... Ohh And Next Time Try A Flavored Blunt.. Lol Lol Im Glad Im Making Sense To Someone.. .

Here's a greenie:D for shattered soul... loved your post.

I believe a lot of things that are produced are intended to manipulate society... hopefully for the better of mankind.

I do want to say that as someone that was taught to hate people of different races. A fun time for my dads family was to take the kiddies to the end of town and throw rocks and bottles at the black people and trade racial slurs. I'm sure there were physical fights... I probably blocked those out.

I am so happy that there were movies such as Roots to show me that black people had feelings too and had a right to be on this earth. Because for the first 7 years of my life I wasn't taught such. I don't remember any altercations with people of other races but I'm sure if they were around there would have been.
I do remember we were taught that mexicans were lazy, jewish people were money grubbers etc... don't shop with them they will rip you off... get my point.

Now those things were burned in my mind for 7 years and even though my mom did not act like that or participate in it, she was complacent and never stood out against it... probably wasn't allowed to.

She basically believed that everyone belonged with their own group to live in harmony, separately, she believed her bible told her that, because people spoke differently.

So without movies t.v shows who the he!! would have taught me anything about race relations. I certainly would not have given a person of color, even a chance if it had not been for movies and books that I saw on slavery when I was in the 4th grade.

So yeah, Excon I believe when pieces are written and produced even drawn, painted that the artist wants to show their views to the world and sometimes the sole purpose is intended to bring about change. What they think needs to be changed.

I will say that it is up to the viewer how they perceive it, but at least the seed has been planted.

I'm not a great artist but I know when I have written poems that talk about the plights of dogs spending their life and dying on chains... my hope is that whoever reads them will speak out against chaining dogs. They will speak to who they can... because like me how do you know something is wrong if you have never been told or shown.

bushg says: "So yeah, Excon I believe when pieces are written and produced even drawn, painted that the artist wants to show their views to the world and sometimes the sole purpose is intended to bring about change. What they think needs to be changed.

I will say that it is up to the viewer how they perceive it, but at least the seed has been planted."
Can't rate this, but very well said. So I was thinking about the movie, Ghost Busters, and lots of scifi, have mostly entertainment value; but most movies influence or attempt to influence. I make myself a pest analyzing movies, to the point I don't go see them, anyway. Case in point: I thought Love Story one of the stupidest flicks ever ("Love is never having to say you are sorry"). Still makes me want to barf!

The country song "Stand by Your man" makes me want to slap some sense in her.
I'm sure that song influenced poor women for the worse. I was rasied in the country, I know it did.

George... Aside from those that are attempting to influence.. some movies are just for pure viewing pleasure or to invoke a specific reaction from people. For the movie that you thought was stupid, to someone else... that movie was the BEST love story ever... its all in the perspective of each viewer, reader.. what you find repulsing or vulgar, someone else could see as a fun form of creative entertainment. I think that is the point. What we get out of art and the media is different for all of us, that is why there are so many facets of entertainment. Everyone has a taste for something different.

BUSHG... OHHH and THANKS FOR THE GREENIE... I agree with you also.. WHAT I find fascinating about you is that, not only did your upbringing directly affect your outlook and beliefs, but your exposure to art, media and the entertainment culture, changed your views profoundly. While one person wouldn't have given it a moment's thought, you questioned your own beliefs based on what you viewed, learned and internalized. That is the amazing thing. LOOK at the positive effect that being open and exposed to different kinds of entertainment does, instead of stifle it, we should embrace it. That doesn't mean we will always like what we see, hear, or learn, or that we will agree with it. BUT it gives us the opportunity to learn from it, discuss and debate different issues surrounding each form of entertainmen, as well as, widen the scope of awareness as a culture and as a society that is interconnected with other cultures and societies.

Without differing interests, talents, artistic direction or creative outlets, we would be quite a stale and boring society.
NEEDLESS TO SAY< as screwed up as the media as, as slanted and biased as it has become, its still drama and entertainment and thus, interesting to the masses...

George... Aside from those that are attempting to influence.. some movies are just for pure viewing pleasure or to invoke a specific reaction from people. For the movie that you thought was stupid, to someone else... that movie was the BEST love story ever...its all in the perspective of each viewer, reader.. what you find repulsing or vulgar, someone else could see as a fun form of creative entertainment. I think that is the point. What we get out of art and the media is different for all of us, that is why there are so many facets of entertainment. Everyone has a taste for something different.
...
Without differing interests, talents, artistic direction or creative outlets, we would be quite a stale and boring society.
NEEDLESS TO SAY< as screwed up as the media as, as slanted and biased as it has become, its still drama and entertainment and thus, interesting to the masses...
I'm not quarreling with what is quoted, and quite agree. Excon was making a point about what the movie's creator may be trying to impart. Every story has a point of view; you may agree or not with that point of view. Every story has characters with whom you may identify or not. A movie I've not seen (and there are many in that category) is Pulp Fiction; it must have some horrendous murder in it because several months after its release I recall hearing that there was a copy-cat murder from the movie in my vicinity. A couple movies from years ago that impart messages are Easy Rider and Walking Tall. I agree that whether one is easily led or influenced is a different issue than whether the creators wish to impart a message or thesis.