Hello,

It has been 13 months since I was declared divorced, here in Jackson County Oklahoma. Since that time I've been paying the $750 a month in spousal support, as per the judges written order. But I still do not have a written decree.

3 months- My Lawyer says her lawyer is writing it.
4 months we get a draft, but it is toatlly incorrect and has issues concerning military retirement, survivor benefits and life insurance. I will not sign it.

9 months- They produce another draft, same issues as before except life insurance clause is dropped.

11-months I ask my lawyer again, what's going on with the decree. He says he will press to get just a journal entry for the divorce and work the other problem issues afterward. We did receive a release form requesting me to release my military and civialian records to them so they can get the wording right on the decree. Again I declined to sign. Since I've already given them all of my records, the booklets and pamphlets, spelling out the wording required by the federal agencies involved.

13- Months still no final decree or action by either attorney.

What should I do? Contact the Bar Association and file a complaint? Contact the Judge?
What should I do?
Thank You Rumple


*************** Post 2 merged

I'm in Altus Oklahoma, during our divorce hearing, my ex,s attorney presented numerous financial documents that were incorrect. My pay statements, one of those that had 12 hours of overtime on it. When asked in court if it was correct I said yes, considering it had 12 hours of overtime. Then they submitted an "aid to the court" stating that I made $4250 per month net income. That figure was based on the one pay statement with the overtime. So they were about $1000. Off my actual income. I may only work overtime 2 times a year.
Her attorney also submitted, they version of my monthly expenses, crossing out my numbers and then adding their own trying to show what my cost of living would be after the divorce. One thing they crossed out was the house payment, since it had to be sold. But didn't even add a dollar amount for rent or a future mortgage payment.

But when the Judge, took things into consideration when he did his written order he gave her "spousal support" at a sum of $750 per month. He looked at the paperwork in front of him, pay staements and aids to the court rather then listening to or reading the transcript. So basically I got screwed since I don't make that kind of money. Plus I'm paying rent that wasn't taken into consideration.

Now I need to get the spousal support modified. Based on those documents

What steps do I need to take to do that? Can I do it myself without hiring another attorney?

Thank you
Rumple.

Never heard of something like this taking that long. Keep after your attorney to get the paperwork RIGHT and get it right NOW. This should have been taken care of a long time ago as you were thinking. If nothing is done to finalize this situation within a short amount of time you can contact the local bar association or write a letter to the judge.

Hello R:

Maybe...

Write a letter to the judge. Tell him that NEW, DIFFERENT, and/or UNDISCOVERED information has come to light regarding your income.

However, if all you have is the SAME information that the judge already saw, then you're out of gas in that court. You're going to need to appeal his decision, and I'll bet you're going to need an attorney to do THAT.

excon

Sounds like you didn't have an attorney to represent you the first time. And you are paying for that lack. Do the smart thing now and pay an attorney to file for amending the support order.

Rumple,

If I were facing the same situation, I believe I would look for a lawyer who is: (1) skilled in the area of need, (2) ethical, and (3) reasonably priced. Knowing what I know at this point in my life, I would not go to a "clearance sale" or "bargain basement" to find a lawyer. And I would consider even trying to get a loan if necessary to pay a lawyer to do what I need to have done.

I would want to be sure I have my facts straight, that I am not trying to get revenge, and that I have some interest in the well-being of the other person also. That last point does not mean to "fold" and give in. Wishing for another's well-being can, at times, include the accepting of hardship for them which might teach them a much-needed lesson. But then, we need to be willing to undergo hardship as needed for ourselves also in order to learn a much-needed lesson.

Best wishes for a good outcome for everyone involved. And while it's happening, I encourage that you...

I'm in Altus Oklahoma, during our divorce hearing, my ex,s attorney presented numerous financial documents that were incorrect. My pay statments, one of those that had 12 hours of overtime on it. When asked in court if it was correct I said yes, considering it had 12 hours of overtime. Then they submitted an "aid to the court" stating that I made $4250 per month net income. That figure was based on the one pay statement with the overtime. So they were about $1000. off my actual income. I may only work overtime 2 times a year.
Her attorney also submitted, they version of my monthly expenses, crossing out my numbers and then adding their own trying to show what my cost of living would be after the divorce. One thing they crossed out was the house payment, since it had to be sold. But didn't even add a dollar amount for rent or a future mortgage payment.

But when the Judge, took things into consideration when he did his written order he gave her "spousal support" at a sum of $750 per month. He looked at the paperwork infront of him, pay staements and aids to the court rather then listening to or reading the transcript. So basically I got screwed since I don't make that kind of money. Plus I'm paying rent that wasn't taken into consideration.

Now I need to get the spousal support modified. Based on those documents

What steps do I need to take to do that? Can I do it myself without hiring another attorney?

Thank you
Rumple.



You can always file to amend the order yourself - that being said, it sounds like you were rattled in Court and, therefore, should find a family court Attorney to file on your behalf, get the paperwork together, present the correct facts to the Court.

Rumple,

If I were facing the same situation, I belive I would look for a lawyer who is: (1) skilled in the area of need, (2) ethical, and (3) reasonably priced. Knowing what I know at this point in my life, I would not go to a "clearance sale" or "bargain basement" to find a lawyer. And I would consider even trying to get a loan if necessary to pay a lawyer to do what I need to have done.

I would want to be sure I have my facts straight, that I am not trying to get revenge, and that I have some interest in the well-being of the other person also. That last point does not mean to "fold" and give in. Wishing for another's well-being can, at times, include the accepting of hardship for them which might teach them a much-needed lesson. But then, we need to be willing to undergo hardship as needed for ourselves also in order to learn a much-needed lesson.

Best wishes for a good outcome for everyone involved. And while it's happening, I encourage that you...



How would you verify whether an Attorney is ethical? That's a problem in my area - if you're admitted to practice you are assumed to be ethical (and that's not always the case).

Replying to JudyKayTee:

I would consider the search for an ethical lawyer much the same as looking for a skilled one, or a mechanic, or doctor.

Word of mouth seems to be an effective way to "assess" service providers (or products) through third parties. Many of us, (those of us who use this forum included) like to teach or share information. And many of us like to be helpful. Asking someone for the name of a "good" and "ethical" lawyer might reveal who the provider is for that person. If that person is ethical, they probably want an ethical lawyer.

If you know someone who is in divorce proceedings or who has been through a divorce, that person may be a resource for referrals.

Pastors and other leaders in religious organizations frequently are in contact with persons going through the crisis of divorce and other heavy-duty family issues. These persons are likely to have some idea of the counselee's impression of their lawyer. Without giving away confidences, the ministers might simply say they have heard good things about (Mr/Ms Attorney).

I live in a small town. Secondly, I have reason to be in the court house frequently. I hear things, and I observe with interest. I consider arrogance and combativeness on the part of lawyers as signs that all might not be well in other areas also (though this may not be a dependable universal screen).

I'm kind of taken with the low key professional who is so well-informed, so well-prepared, so smooth, and apparently so personally secure that they don't find it necessary to attack others or exude a lot of bluster. It's kind of a "just the facts" approach. What is the word in fencing? They "parry" effectively and in a very professional manner, they just simply disarm the opposition with the law and appropriate procedural conduct.

I don't know if this is helpful, but we'll hope that I, myself, am secure enough for you to tell me.

Thanks for the question, and...

First you were there, you had the right to challenge the info, and in fact at the time you agree they were all true and/or did not object to any of the info they provided. Why did you not provide all of your own evidence, your own budget, your own pay reciepts?

In many states, you may be bound by that amount for a certain amount of time, in some places you can not just appeal a month or two afterwards, but have a time you have to wait for a new hearing

And remember it is not what is real, or what is actually happening, it is what is proved in court. So you are going to need an attorney, and you are going to have to review and not accept anything as valid unless it is exactly what you are producing.

So they did not actually screw you, you basically screwed yourself.

My bet is you did not have an attorney, and now the money you saved on an attorney is being paid, in paying more to the ex.

Hello,

It has been 13 months since I was declared divorced, here in Jackson County Oklahoma. Since that time I've been paying the $750 a month in spousal support, as per the judges written order. But I still do not have a written decree.

3 months- My Lawyer says her lawyer is writing it.
4 months we get a draft, but it is toatlly incorrect and has issues concerning military retirement, survivor benefits and life insurance. I will not sign it.

9 months- They produce another draft, same issues as before except life insurance clause is dropped.

11-months I ask my lawyer again, whats going on with the decree. He says he will press to get just a journal entry for the divorce and work the other problem issues afterward. We did receive a release form requesting me to release my military and civialian records to them so they can get the wording right on the decree. Again I declined to sign. Since I've already given them all of my records, the booklets and pamphlets, spelling out the wording required by the federal agencies involved.

13- Months still no final decree or action by either attorney.

What should I do? Contact the Bar Association and file a complaint? Contact the Judge?
What should I do?
Thank You Rumple


It would be helpful if you posted all of the problems with your divorce on the same thread - I thought (based on your other question) that you were not represented by an Attorney - now you refer to "your Attorney." You also posted about paying Court-ordered support. This post indicates there is (as of now) no Order.

Should be combined for purposes of clarity.

First you were there, you had the right to challenge the info, and in fact at the time you agree they were all true and/or did not object to any of the info they provided. Why did you not provide all of your own evidence, your own budget, your own pay reciepts?

In many states, you may be bound by that amount for a certain amount of time, in some places you can not just appeal a month or two afterwards, but have a time you have to wait for a new hearing

And remember it is not what is real, or what is actually happening, it is what is proved in court. So you are going to need an attorney, and you are going to have to review and not accept anything as valid unless it is exactly what you are producing.

So they did not actually screw you, you basicly screwed yourself.

My bet is you did not have an attorney, and now the money you saved on an attorney is being paid, in paying more to the ex.



If you really want to be confused, there's a second thread with somewhat different details, questions, problems involving the Judge, the "ex's" Attorney, the OP's Attorney, whether a support order has been issued and so forth.

There is an Attorney involved for OP (or was an Attorney involved) and that is the person who should be addressing these problems now.

Wonder if the threads should be combined for clarity? Otherwise it's almost impossible to compare the two threads and answer.

You are correct, the two separate posts don't make sense when viewed togther.

But with it all said and done, time to hire a new attorney maybe, or find why yours is not getting anything done.

But divorce agreements if not able to agree can take years in court.

I can add some further details to this I didn't post before. My ex and the kids left to live in Texas back in Aug of 2000. Saying she didn't like the school district or the community. We had just purchased a house in 1998. With her leaving and the BRAC going on around the country the housing market was flat. I continued to live and work here and she found a job and an apartment and lived in Texas. The kids went and finished high school there. I work civil service and have 30 years invested between military time and civil service so I really can't just quit my job and throw away my retirement. I continued to pay the house payment, car payments, insurance auto and medical, fuel and maintenace on vehicles and gave her and the kids any moneys I had left over. She always had a key to the house. But I never had a key to her apartment. I would always have to call ahead to make sure someone was home to let me in.
We continued this way for 5 years, she started to press for a divorce since we had grown further and further apart, but I didn't want to do that because of financial reasons, mainly child support and insurance. Instead I filed for legal separation. This way she was still covered for medical insurance, the child support was not a real big deal since at that point we had just the one son still in high school in his senior year. Plus the vehicles were paid for. The legal separation was signed by the same family court Judge that we went in front of for our divorce. In the separation I signed over two vehicles of her choice into her name. If the house sold she would receive half the proceeds. I continued to pay the insurance and made the monthly chld support payment as it was written. The house I lived in had become the storage unit for any thing and every thing they had no further use for. I was expected to hang on to it. Hers the kids and even her moms and sisters stuff.

After 6 years of being separated, living alone a person starts looking for companionship. So yes I found a girl friend after the legal separation was finalized. But my ex didn't like that idea, as most woman. So she filed for divorce at that point and with a vengeance.

I had made numerous improvements to the house waiting for the economy to improve and the BRAC to be completed. Tile work, paint, laminate flooring etc. So it was ready to sell. Her or the kids never once helped me with fixing up the house. It was on the market and sold within 3 months. We split the proceeds. They never helped me move all that stuff out and put it in storage. So I moved it all and stored it all.

We went to court. Yes I had an attorney. He disputed their claims verbally, but they presented they claims in writing "aid to the court" or exhibits. I had completed my discovery in a timely manner and had all my reciepts to prove my expenses. Her discovery was a joke with the list of expenses she was claiming. But anyway the bottom line here, is her attorney knew, who she was up against from previous court cases. She knew what my lawyer would do or not do. So she knew piling on the paperwork for the Judge would out do my lawyers verbal rebutal. She also knew the Judge would look at the paperwork presented to him rather then listening or reading a transcript. The Judge even had the balls to throw out his own signed legal separation. So yes my lawyer sucked, her attorney was a smart lady, the judge was lazy and now between the lazy Judge, my ex wanting to drag this out as long as possible just to torture me. My ex is getting her $750 a month, I can't get a final decree, my lawyer don't give a damn. I've tried to secure another lawyer here in town to take my case and try to get things back on track. But in small town USA, they won't step on each others toes. The response I get is he was hired to do the job and he should see it through to the end.

Thank you
Rumple

I can add some further details to this I didn't post before. My ex and the kids left to live in Texas back in Aug of 2000. Saying she didn't like the school district or the community. We had just purchased a house in 1998. With her leaving and the BRAC going on around the country the housing market was flat. I continued to live and work here and she found a job and an apartment and lived in Texas. The kids went and finished high school there. I work civil service and have 30 years invested between military time and civil service so I really can't just quit my job and throw away my retirement. I continued to pay the house payment, car payments, insurance auto and medical, fuel and maintenace on vehicles and gave her and the kids any moneys I had left over. She always had a key to the house. But I never had a key to her apartment. I would always have to call ahead to make sure someone was home to let me in.
We continued this way for 5 years, she started to press for a divorce since we had grown further and further apart, but I didn't want to do that because of financial reasons, mainly child support and insurance. Instead I filed for legal separation. This way she was still covered for medical insurance, the child support was not a real big deal since at that point we had just the one son still in high shcool in his senior year. Plus the vehicles were paid for. The legal separation was signed by the same family court Judge that we went infront of for our divorce. In the separation I signed over two vehicles of her choice into her name. If the house sold she would receive half the proceeds. I continued to pay the insurance and made the monthly chld support payment as it was written. The house I lived in had become the storage unit for any thing and every thing they had no further use for. I was expected to hang on to it. Hers the kids and even her moms and sisters stuff.

After 6 years of being separated, living alone a person starts looking for companionship. So yes I found a girl friend after the legal separation was finalized. But my ex didn't like that idea, as most woman. So she filed for divorce at that point and with a vengance.

I had made numerous improvments to the house waiting for the economy to improve and the BRAC to be completed. Tile work, paint, laminate flooring etc. So it was ready to sell. Her or the kids never once helped me with fixing up the house. It was on the market and sold within 3 months. We split the proceeds. They never helped me move all that stuff out and put it in storage. So I moved it all and stored it all.

We went to court. Yes I had an attorney. He disputed their claims verbally, but they presented they claims in writing "aid to the court" or exhibits. I had completed my discovery in a timely manner and had all my reciepts to prove my expenses. Her discovery was a joke with the list of expenses she was claiming. But anyway the bottom line here, is her attorney knew, who she was up against from previous court cases. She knew what my lawyer would do or not do. So she knew piling on the paperwork for the Judge would out do my lawyers verbal rebutal. She also knew the Judge would look at the paperwork presented to him rather then listening or reading a transcript. The Judge even had the balls to throw out his own signed legal separation. So yes my lawyer sucked, her attorney was a smart lady, the judge was lazy and now between the lazy Judge, my ex wanting to drag this out as long as possible just to torture me. My ex is getting her $750 a month, I can't get a final decree, my lawyer don't give a damn. I've tried to secure another lawyer here in town to take my case and try to get things back on track. But in small town USA, they won't step on each others toes. The response I get is he was hired to do the job and he should see it through to the end.

thank you
rumple


All of the details aside - if you can fairly say that your Attorney did a poor job of representing you and no other law firm will take your case, then YOU have to do your research and re-open the matter yourself. Also reporting your Attorney to the County/State Bar - again, if these aren't just allegations and you have proof - I do not recommend reporting an Attorney unless there is no other choice - is an option.

I understand the whole small town Attorney aspect but wasn't your divorce heard in a State Court?

You would also have to purchase the transcript of your hearing (and that gets pricey) to pursue your Attorney or re-open the matter but I don't see any other option.

Was an Order/Judgment issued by the Judge? Was there a ruling from the bench? In NYS, at least, there is a requirement that the Order be reduced to writing, approved by both sides and filed within a certain number of days.

As far as: "After 6 years of being separated, living alone a person starts looking for companionship. So yes I found a girl friend after the legal separation was finalized. But my ex didn't like that idea, as most woman. So she filed for divorce at that point and with a vengeance" I don't think this is a "woman only" feeling.

Here's my more specific problem here - your ex left for Texas in 2000; you continued that way for 5 years (which takes you to 2005); you filed for a separation; after 6 years of being separated (which takes us to 2011) you found a girlfriend and your wife took you to Court for a divorce.

The poster is definitely confused about timelines here...

The poster is definitely confused about timelines here......


Good, I thought it was me.

Judy Kay Tee,

I'm not sure what kind of math your using for your time line. I was referring to the 6 years from 2000 to 2006. Not adding 6 years on to 2005. We were apart for six years after she moved to Texas. I didn't file for legal separation until the middle of 2006. She filed for divorce the 13th of Dec 2006.

Our divorce took place in the county court. The Judge did a "verbal" I declare your marriage dissolved on the 8th of May 2007. Then he came out with a written order the 18th of May 2007. But here in Oklahoma the winning side so to speak generates the final decree and both parties have to agree and sign it. So far her attorney hasn't been able to produce a fair draft that matches the judges written order. She is trying to add things that are not there, like survivor benefits and life insurance etc.

His written order just, finalized the separation of property including retirement, her spousal support, the throwing out the original separation agreement and who was responsible for the attorneys fees. That was all there is on it. 3 paragraphs.

Thank you for your insight
Rumple

Judy Kay Tee,

I'm not sure what kind of math your using for your time line. I was refering to the 6 years from 2000 to 2006. Not adding 6 years on to 2005. We were apart for six years after she moved to Texas. I didn't file for legal separation until the middle of 2006. She filed for divorce the 13th of Dec 2006.

Our divorce took place in the county court. The Judge did a "verbal" I declare your marriage disolved on the 8th of May 2007. Then he came out with a written order the 18th of May 2007. But here in Oklahoma the winning side so to speak generates the final decree and both parties have to agree and sign it. So far her attorney hasn't been able to produce a fair draft that matches the judges written order. She is trying to add things that are not there, like survivor benefits and life insurance etc.

His written order just, finalized the separation of property including retirement, her spousal support, the throwing out the orginal separation agreement and who was responsible for the attorneys fees. That was all there is on it. 3 paragraphs.

Thank you for your insight
Rumple


You said you found a girlfriend 6 years after the legal separation was filed - here you say you filed that document in 2006. Or am I reading wrong? Entirely possible. It makes me somewhat "nervous" when dates and/or circumstances appear to conflict - lots of people post and leave out pertinent details in order to make themselves appear less at fault. Of course, the girlfriend is a side issue, anyway.

But that's not the issue here - it is unconscionable for a marriage to be ordered dissolved in May 2007 and for you to still be standing here with no finalized paperwork in June 2008. Absolutely unconscionable. NYS is similar - one Attorney writes the order, the other Attorney consents, the Judge (or his/her Clerk) compares with the transcript and approves, it's filed. Technically it's the Judge's Order, reduced to writing. I don't know what the rule of thumb is but I have seen action taken against an Attorney who held the Order for over 60 days.

I don't see any choice for you other than what I suggested - you MUST find another Attorney. File for another hearing yourself or pursue it yourself through the Bar Association. I see no other options if the Attorneys won't get moving.

If your wife is holding things up, I have no idea what her plan is - makes no sense to me. However, whatever her reason is only you at this point can break the stalemate. She (apparently) is happy the way things are.

My ex, packed up and left OK, in Aug 2000. I didn't file for legal separation until May of 2006. I didn't even look for anyone or seek out anyone until the separation was final in June of 2006, (several months after in fact). Once she found out about that she filed for divorce and has taken me to the cleaners.

So, yes she is very content getting her $750 per-month knowing I can't file for a modification until I get a decree. Her $750 is strictly what's on the judges order.

Thank you
Rumple

Something you could try but Im not sure how legal or not it is. You need to find out from your lawyer. But if the decree isn't final then I wouldn't pay her alimony till it was. Instead I would set the money into an account ( a trust ) until the final paperwork comes through. When it does then the money would be distributed in the proper order. In some states there are lawyers that refuse to push any paperwork that makes things final until they are paid in full for their services. They will do anything in their power including run up the tab just because they are jerks and abuse the system.