I ama father of to the first child is 9 yrs old and lives in NC. Ihave no relationship with that child since 4 yrs ago. I have visitation and CS but at this point I have chosen not to have a relationship with that child. (Currently, the court is not aware of this) The second child is 15 months, by a different woman, and is in md. I am am originally from FL but currently reside in DC. I have no family here. Prior to my return to fl, I got a girlfrend pregnant with the 2nd child. We broke up before the birth. She filed for custody immediately afer the child was born. I didn't respond until after a default order was approved and I got it vacated. Mom said I was trying to prolong the case. I was unemployed before and after the child was born because I was a fulltme student living off VA benefits and a school stipend. (At the first hearing, the court was aware I was unemployed because of school and master was not very happy about that) I did not get to see the child (since brith) until court visitation in January when child was 10 months old. Temp order has me paying support and visiting child every other weekend, which I have done both. Last year I met a new girlfriend and we have been living together since. I graduated school in May and recently got a job. Up until now, girlfriend has been supporting me. I would like to get full custody of the child with mom paying child support. Mom is currently employed, has a house. Makes more than me. This is her hometown so all of her family is here. Child has been living with her snce birth. We were never married. Child is still young. I am not a criminal, no history of abuse. I want to know my chances of getting full custody based on the merits of our history.

Slim to none. You have one child that you are not visiting, and that I am not sure you are sending child support for. That wasn't clear in your post. Your ex-girlfriend seems to have been supporting you, you've just moved in with a new woman (and, given your history, the odds that there is a new baby soon seem high), you don't currently say that you are employed. Does that sound like a better environment for a 15-month-old than a parent that has a house, a job, and a family support system? To be quite honest, it sounds to me like someone who is looking for a sugarmama to pay his bills so that he doesn't have to take responsibility for his child.

Slim to none. You have one child that you are not visiting, and that I am not sure you are sending child support for. That wasn't clear in your post. Your ex-girlfriend seems to have been supporting you, you've just moved in with a new woman (and, given your history, the odds that there is a new baby soon seem high), you don't currently say that you are employed. Does that sound like a better environment for a 15-month-old than a parent that has a house, a job, and a family support system? To be quite honest, it sounds to me like someone who is looking for a sugarmama to pay his bills so that he doesn't have to take responsibility for his child.


I am working now. I just started two weeks ago. Federal government. Ex and I go back to court in September. I want the court to see a change in my circumstance. I now have a good job. I don't own a home but I have a decent apartment. Why should it matter whether I am paying support of the other child? Shouldn't the court only focus on my effort to be a father with this child? Are there any other coments from other experts on the site?

I am working now. I just started two weeks ago. Federal government. Ex and I go back to court in september. I want the court to see a change in my circumstance. I now have a good job. I dont own a home but I have a decent apartment. Why should it matter whether or not I am paying support of the other child? Shouldnt the court only focus on my effort to be a father with this child? Are there any other coments from other experts on the site?


The Court will look at the whole picture - your past behavior, other children, your marital situation, your general stability, who supports you, your school record. More importantly if you want sole physical custody (is that what you want?) what is your ability to parent this child... and more importantly, why should the mother lose custody? Is she unfit in some way?

Maybe joint custody, maybe visitation -

I think your "you want to have custody with the Mom paying support" says the whole thing. Nowhere do I see one word about your love for this child but I sure see a lot about money!

JudyKayTee is right, they will look at all of that. Your chances are slim to none of getting full custody because the court likes to see the child have a relationship with both parents, unless doing so would be detrimental to the child (ie unfit parent,abusive relationship, etc). If she has been raising this child since birth and has not been declared unfit, there is almost no chance the judge would take her child away and give him/her to you just because you feel like raising this one. As far as joint custody, you have a better chance, but why did you let it go so long to where you had to go back and get it vacated? The judge will want to know know why you want a relationship with this child and not the other and why you didn't want a relationship with this child until a while after he/she was born. If you have good reasons than you might be able to pull off joint custody, but they'd probably have to be really good reasons.

JudyKayTee is right, they will look at all of that. Your chances are slim to none of getting full custody because the court likes to see the child have a relationship with both parents, unless doing so would be detrimental to the child (ie unfit parent,abusive relationship, etc). If she has been raising this child since birth and has not been declared unfit, there is almost no chance the judge would take her child away and give him/her to you just because you feel like raising this one.


I am not abusive, unfit, or any negative thing, so why shouldn't I have just as much prenting time as the mother?



As far as joint custody, you have a better chance, but why did you let it go so long to where you had to go back and get it vacated?

Are you saying I have a chance a 50/50 custody with no CS? I don't know. I had 60 days to respond to the summons and didn't then the mother filed a default. I had 30 days to respond and didn't, but I was still able to get the order vacated. I was swamped with school work and lost track of time.



The judge will want to know know why you want a relationship with this child and not the other and why you didn't want a relationship with this child until a while after he/she was born.

My answer to the judge: The mother has withheld the child from contact with me so I wasn unable to deal with pressure of trying to contact the child. To date, I am not sure where the mother and my other child are.


If you have good reasons than you might be able to pull off joint custody, but they'd probably have to be really good reasons.

I have no other reason other than I want to be a father to this child. I have expressed some statemetns to the mother that she says she will use against me. She knows about my issues with the other child and she seems to think I am giving gender preference to the fact that his child is a boy, and my first child is a girl.

I'm with the others, I think your chances of full custody are very slim. As you pointed out, the mother's family is all in the area yet you have little support. You have been irresponsible about sex fathering two children out of wedlock. You might improve your chances if you were married, but it would still be a longshot.

You stand a much better chance of joint custody, maybe every other week until the child starts school, then, unless you lived close enough so he could stay in the same school, one parent will have to be given preference.

But I'm also bothered by your remark:



Are you saying I have a chance a 50/50 custody with no CS?


Again, it seems to show that you are more concerned with the financial issues.

Yes its often unfair that the mother is given preferences in custody cases. This is changing, but I don't see it your case. Your history precludes it.

I am not abusive, unfit, or any negative thing, so why shouldnt I have just as much prenting time as the mother?

Are you saying I have a chance a 50/50 custody with no CS? I dont know. I had 60 days to respond to the summons and didnt then the mother filed a default. I had 30 days to respond and didnt, but I was still able to get the order vacated. I was swamped with school work and lost track of time.

My answer to the judge: The mother has witheld the child from contact with me so I wasn unable to deal with pressure of trying to contact the child. To date, I am not sure where the mother and my other child are.

I have no other reason other than I want to be a father to this child. I have expressed some statemetns to the mother that she says she will use against me. She knows about my issues with the other child and she seems to think I am giving gender preference to the fact that his child is a boy, and my first child is a girl.


I am not smokedetector but I am jumping in here - the Court could very well see you as negligent, not being in contact or trying to be in contact with your children, abdicating your responsibilities. You didn't say you wanted as much time with the child as the mother has - you asked about full custody, MORE time with the child than the mother.

Your past history - didn't respond to the summons, default against you, swamped with school work, no time, you were unable to deal with the pressure, haven't hired anyone to locate the mother and child - does NOT read well on paper. May not be the case but it does read like excuse, excuse, excuse. And what happens if you DO get custody and are under pressure, again? I think a good Attorney on the other side will make mincemeat out of you.

You have "expressed some statements" which the mother may use against you? Sounds like you have shot yourself in the foot. Again - Attorney, mincemeat.

The Court will decide which of you is the more stable parent or if it's a tie, split custody, but I see no way you are going to get sole custody.

So come back after the proceeding and prove me wrong - I'm always open to learning something.

I am not smokedetector but I am jumping in here - the Court could very well see you as negligent, not being in contact or trying to be in contact with your children, abdicating your responsibilities. You didn't say you wanted as much time with the child as the mother has - you asked about full custody, MORE time with the child than the mother.

Your past history - didn't respond to the summons, default against you, swamped with school work, no time, you were unable to deal with the pressure, haven't hired anyone to locate the mother and child - does NOT read well on paper. May not be the case but it does read like excuse, excuse, excuse. And what happens if you DO get custody and are under pressure, again? I think a good Attorney on the other side will make mincemeat out of you.

You have "expressed some statements" which the mother may use against you? Sounds like you have shot yourself in the foot. Again - Attorney, mincemeat.

The Court will decide which of you is the more stable parent or if it's a tie, split custody, but I see no way you are going to get sole custody.

So come back after the proceeding and prove me wrong - I'm always open to learning something.



Thank you for your insite. I now believe I am just as stable as the mother. I just started working a full time federal job, with good benefits. I live w/ my girlfriend who helps in caring for the child. The mother does not have the in home helps she needs. Two sets of hands are better than one, right? I can, if needed, provide the medical insurance for the child on my insurance. I don't see why I can't get shared physical and legal at this point. I don't think the mother has a leg to stand on to prevent me from having shared parenting time with the child.

Now If I were to get shared parenting time, will the calculatoin for CS change, or can the courts deviate from the CS and still make me pay the full CS amount?

See there you go again. All you seem to care about is how much support you have to pay. You don't think a judge will see through that? A live in girlfriend does not qualify as a stable environment.

I do think you stand a good chance of joint physical and legal custody, which should affect your support. But, frankly, I think you care more about the support issue then being a parent and I hope the judge sees that.

thank you for your insite. I now believe I am just as stable as the mother. I just started working a full time federal job, with good benefits. I live w/ my gf who helps in caring for the child. the mother does not have the in home helps she needs. Two sets of hands are better than one, right? I can, if needed, provide the medical insurance for the child on my insurance. I dont see why I can't get shared physical and legal at this point. I dont think the mother has a leg to stand on to prevent me from having shared parenting time with the child.

Now If I were to get shared parenting time, will the calculatoin for CS change, or can the courts deviate from the CS and still make me pay the full CS amount?


Once again, are you talking sole custody (which you originally posted) or shared custody? Now you are talking "shared parenting time." Which is it?

I know you think you're as stable as the mother - but it's what the Court thinks based on the evidence that is going to count. The Court will evaluate her life, your life, make a decision based on what is best for the child. Less than a month of employment (Feds or not) may not qualify as "long-term stable employment."

Will the Court accept a live-in girlfriend as a caretaker? I don't know. Some Courts won't consider anyone who isn't a married partner. I don't know about your area. I know, I know - you could split up, a married couple could divorce. I don't make the rules, I just report them.

The person with physical custody will receive child support - why are you so fixated on the child support? No, if you have the child for alternate weekends (or something) it will NOT reduce your support, at least not in NYS. Most States fix support by Statute now (with a few exceptions) so ask your Attorney what you can expect to pay.

See there you go again. All you seem to care about is how much support you have to pay. You don't think a judge will see through that? A live in girlfriend does not qualify as a stable environment.

I do think you stand a good chance of joint physical and legal custody, which should affect your support. But, frankly, I think you care more about the support issue then being a parent and I hope the judge sees that.


What kind of schedule should I expect with a child of this age at joint custody?

Once again, are you talking sole custody (which you originally posted) or shared custody? Now you are talking "shared parenting time." Which is it?

When I counter filed, I asked for sole custody and child support. You guys keep mentioning I have no chance a full custody, so I guess I have to settle for joint. The mother is not going to want that so it looks like we will have to fight it out in court?



I know you think you're as stable as the mother - but it's what the Court thinks based on the evidence that is going to count. The Court will evaluate her life, your life, make a decision based on what is best for the child. Less than a month of employment (Feds or not) may not qualify as "long-term stable employment."

Well, we go back to court in September, I would have two months of employment under myself by that time.


The person with physical custody will receive child support - why are you so fixated on the child support? No, if you have the child for alternate weekends (or something) it will NOT reduce your support, at least not in NYS. Most States fix support by Statute now (with a few exceptions) so ask your Attorney what you can expect to pay.

Its not about cs. I would like to spend as much time as I can with the child. In my state 35%overnights is considered shared custody. EOW, combined with vacation and holidays should give me about 35% for shared custody calculation.

This is not "Let's make a deal", you are not negotiating the price of a house or a car. You are referring to real life business. Please stop. Pay your support and visit your child. Learn why we love our children and don't equate them to the money we spend on them. You need to take the time to learn to love your child and not see the $'s. I'm saddened by the fact that you look at your child as a bill. The previous posters are so correct that all this is about is the dollar. That is not sufficient reason to grant you "50/50 custody". At best you are looking at visitation and joint legal custody.

Mom doesn't want shared custody. She says the child is too young and getting him back on his schedule is already a pain after my visistaion weekend. Also we live about 40 min away from each other. That shouldn't make a difference should it?

If its not about CS then why do you harp so much on it?

If I were the judge, I would start you off with joint legal custody, award the mother primary physical custody, but give you generous visitation. Since the child is preschool at this point, I would suggest alternate weekends, alternate holidays, maybe one week a month. etc. I would then revist this in 2 years and see how things are going.

The mother does have a point about the age of the child and having a routine. Once the child is in the twos, that becomes less a factor. Yes living 40 min away will make a difference, especially when the child starts school. At that point, the child has to stay primarily with the parent near where he goes to school.

Hello m:

SHE will remain the custodial parent. You're going to get every other weekend, and two weeks in the summer. You're going to pay child support coming out your ears. Furthermore, in order to even get THAT visitation, the judge is going to require you to support your OTHER children too.

Yes, you're a wonderful fellow now, but you WEREN'T. If you can STAY a wonderful fellow, go back to court in a couple years and show the judge that you ARE. Maybe he'll change the order. Maybe he won't.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking with it.

excon

PS> I actually, don't think you're so wonderful... abandoning your daughter. Nope, I think you suck. She was FIVE when you threw her away! I don't think you deserve ANY kids.

Hello m:

SHE will remain the custodial parent. You're going to get every other weekend, and two weeks in the summer. You're going to pay child support coming out your ears. Furthermore, in order to even get THAT visitation, the judge is going to require you to support your OTHER children too.

Yes, you're a wonderful fellow now, but you WEREN'T. If you can STAY a wonderful fellow, go back to court in a couple years and show the judge that you ARE. Maybe he'll change the order. Maybe he won't.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking with it.

excon

PS> I actually, don't think you're so wonderful.... abandoning your daughter. Nope, I think you suck. She was FIVE when you threw her away! I don't think you deserve ANY kids.

Excon how can you just outright say I will not get custody based on the other child. I told you the mother of that child has keptme from being involved. I am a very upstanding guy, military veteran. I do think the only thing against me is the ltter I wrote to the court. I mentioned that I requested a reduction in CS with no answer. I still haven't received the paternity results, I only get 4 days a month, and that the mother has been a pain in the neck. I can't take that back, but I may have to explain myself in court. I was pretty frustrated at the time. It was regarding a contempt for visitation but I needed to vent. I don't think 4 days a month is helpful in me having a relationship with my child, yet that is what the judge ordered. He didn't even say I could get the holidays in between. NOw do to a continuance, I have to wait a few more months to go back to court. Im a little glad about it in that now I have a job and I expect things to be better in my case.

If its not about CS then why do you harp so much on it?

If I were the judge, I would start you off with joint legal custody, award the mother primary physical custody, but give you generous visitation. Since the child is preschool at this point, I would suggest alternate weekends, alternate holidays, maybe one week a month. etc. I would then revist this in 2 years and see how things are going.

The mother does have a point about the age of the child and having a routine. Once the child is in the twos, that becomes less a factor. Yes living 40 min away will make a difference, especially when the child starts school. At that point, the child has to stay primarily with the parent near where he goes to school.

I think joint legal is bs. Medical and education decisions are a no brainer. The only thing is, when baby was first born mom says she wants private school for the child. Why would I say no to private school or my child gettting necessary medical attention. My concern is that when the child is older, it will be tough for activities. Mom says she will not agree to any negotiation in the schedule other than what is in the order, and any information I need regarind medical, education, I have to go to the school to get it myself. She says the programs she puts him in outside of school are for her time with her child. That's going to affect the child if I can't be there. Suppose he has a soccer game on her weekend and she chooses not to take him... then what. I mean, this coparenting thing is going to suck.

Excon how can you just outright say I will not get custody based on the other child. Hello again, m:

Because you're batting .500. In order to get custody, you'll need to bat 1.000.

excon

I mean, this coparenting thing is going to suck.

Sure it does. But then who's fault is the existence of this child in the first place? I don't know whether your method of protection failed or you didn't use protection or what. I do know that I believe that no one should engage in sexual intercourse unless they are prepare to be parents to that child. And the most healthy parental arrangement is a two parent household.

So you sowed your seeds and now you reap the result.

Excon how can you just outright say I will not get custody based on the other child. I told you the mother of that child has keptme from being involved. I am a very upstanding guy, military veteran. I do think the only thing against me is the ltter I wrote to the court. I mentioned that I requested a reduction in CS with no answer. I still havnt received the paternity results, I only get 4 days a month, and that the mother has been a pain in the neck. I can't take that back, but I may have to explain myself in court. I was pretty frustrated at the time. It was regarding a contempt for visitation but I needed to vent. I dont think 4 days a month is helpful in me having a relationship with my child, yet that is what the judge ordered. He didn even say I could get the holidays in between. NOw do to a continuance, I have to wait a few more months to go back to court. Im a little glad about it in that now I have a job and I expect things to be better in my case.


We ALL say that based on experience with the Court system and what you have described/explained. Seems like the Judge knows a lot more about you than I do and he is even harsher than I am!

Again - the mother kept you from getting involved, you were "too busy" with school to reply, you had some other problems - you have a bag full of excuses. The "only thing" the Court may have against you is some letter you wrote - why don't you post that letter and then this panel will vote on how offensive the letter is. Oh, and whatever admissions you made to the mother which she intends to use against you.

It's not about the money, but that is part of just about every post.

As far as you thinking joint custody "sucks" - I think leaving two women with your children to raise while you got your life together "sucks" both for them and for the children. You are not the one being abused here, although that seems to be your opinion.

Now that it's been established pretty much that there is a problem paying for 2 children are you planning on a third?

Hello again, m:

I want you to understand something... I applaud you for trying to BE a father now. I hope you keep fighting the good fight for BOTH your children. It's going to be an uphill battle, however, due to your own history...

That doesn't mean you ARE your history. It DOES mean that you're going to have work TWICE as hard to prove it now. We're just letting you know what you're in for, so that you DON'T give up, or get busy, or run out of money. Fighting for your children in court is expensive, it takes a looooong time, and you don't always get what you want.

Nonetheless, from a personal perspective, I WANT you to overcome the headache you've created for yourself. Nahhh, not for you, dude - for your children.

excon

PS> Lest you think that I'm being holier than thou, I DIDN'T do the things I suggest you do, and it cost me, AND my son, bigtime...

Sure it does. But then who's fault is the existence of this child in the first place? I don't know whether your method of protection failed or you didn't use protection or what. I do know that I beleive that no one should engage in sexual intercourse unless they are prepare to be parents to that child. And the most healthy parental arrangement is a two parent household.

So you sowed your seeds and now you reap the result.

Actually, the woman got pregnant on purpose. I believe she went to a fertility clinic to get pregnant. Yes, I wrote the court and explained this to them. So its her fault. I believe she tricked me and now she has caused me all of these issues. I told the court how manipulative she is.

I have been to other websites and this is the first anyone has mentioned that I could get shared custody. If she doesn't accept this in mediation, then we will just have to do a merit trial. I am not prepared to agree to her getting full custody

actually, the woman got pregnant on purpose. I believe she went to a fertility clinic to get pregnant. yes, I wrote the court and explained this to them. So its her fault. I believe she tricked me and now she has caused me all of these issues. I told the court how manipulative she is.

I have been to other websites and this is the first anyone has mentioned that I could get shared custody. If she doesnt accept this in mediation, then we will just have to do a merit trial. I am not prepared to agree to her getting full custody


Wait a minute - you believe she went to a fertility clinic and got pregnant and tricked you?

With your sperm?

This gets better and better.

So you had unprotected sex. You may have thought she was providing the protection and she wasn't, but you trusted her and had unprotected sex. So the more the fool you. Without your sperm that you willingly (and I bet enthusiastically) contributed, any attmepts on her part to be more fertile would have been useless.

I do applaud you for wanting to be a big part of your child's life. But your concentration should be on that, not what effect it will have on child support. You will need to prove to the courts that you want to be a good father. That will help gert you more custody and visitation, maybe not at first, but as the child gets older.

So you had unprotected sex. You may have thought she was providing the protection and she wasn't, but you trusted her and had unprotected sex. So the more the fool you. Without your sperm that you willingly (and I bet enthusiastically) contributed, any attmepts on her part to be more fertile would have been useless.

I do applaud you for wanting to be a big part of your child's life. But your concentration should be on that, not what effect it will have on child support. You will need to prove to the courts that you want to be a good father. That will help gert you more custody and visitation, maybe not at first, but as the child gets older.


Scott, did you see that tricked him with this pregnancy by going to a sperm bank (which apparently had OP's sperm on tap)?

This doesn't seem to be a "no protection" problem.

Scott, did you see that tricked him with this pregnancy by going to a sperm bank (which apparently had OP's sperm on tap)?

This doesn't seem to be a "no protection" problem.

I didn't read it quite that way. Allegedly she went to a fertility clinic. I think he thinks she was on fertility pills to increase the chances of her getting pregnant when he had unprotected sex with her. Don't know what proof he has of that though.

I didn't read it quite that way. Allegedly she went to a fertility clinic. I think he thinks she was on fertility pills to increase the chances of her getting pregnant when he had unprotected sex with her. Don't know what proof he has of that though.


Idont have any proof, but I just know. In my frustration, I put this in writing to the court. I am not sure it was a good idea, since Ive been told "being tricked" is a popular excuse to the court. The ex knows about the letter. She says she is going to use it against me to prove that I am an argumentative person and that she minimizes her communication with me because it may provoke me. That of course is bs. I wrote the court about a contempt when she was late answering the door for pickup. I was frustrated. I went on to vent about other things as well including the fact that I don't trust her. I realize now it was a mistake, because the court thinks I am out of work, living off my girlfriend, and that I put everything aside, including fatherhood, for school. I am not sure how I can make the court see differently, but that is why I came to this site, to see what I can do. I am documenting everything, but its her word against mine.

Idont have any proof, but I just know. In my frustration, I put this in writing to the court. I am not sure it was a good idea, since Ive been told "being tricked" is a popular excuse to the court. The ex knows about the letter. She says she is going to use it against me to prove that I am an argumentative person and that she minimizes her communication with me because it may provoke me. That of course is bs. I wrote the court about a contempt when she was late answering the door for pickup. I was frustrated. I went on to vent about other things as well including the fact that I dont trust her. I realize now it was a mistake, because the court thinks I am out of work, living off my gf, and that I put everything aside, including fatherhood, for school. I am not sure how I can make the court see differently, but that is why I came to this site, to see what I can do. I am documenting everything, but its her word against mine.


OK - so are you saying she took fertility drugs in order to get pregnant or was artificially inseminated - ?

I have to know whether I owe Scott an apology or not.

Why was she so eager to have your child?

And, yes, I think it was a mistake and I think your reading of what the Court will think is 100% correct - the Court also isn't big on "I have no proof, I just know."

Well the first thing is to n ot make accusations you can't prove. You "just know" she was taking fertility treatments? Unless you have proof you don't "know" anything.

And yes it sounds like you botched everything from the get go. So, the only way around that is to build up the trust of the court. Tell the judge you understand you botched it and that you have to pay the price of doing so. So you'll accept whatever custody/visitation the court gives you and use it to show how good a father you can be. Ask only that they set it up to revisit the case in a year or so.

Well the first thing is to n ot make accusations you can't prove. You "just know" she was taking fertility treatments? Unless you have proof you don't "know" anything.

And yes it sounds like you botched everything from the get go. So, the only way around that is to build up the trust of the court. Tell the judge you understand you botched it and that you have to pay the price of doing so. So you'll accept whatever custody/visitation the court gives you and use it to show how good a father you can be. Ask only that they set it up to revisit the case in a year or so.


I saw a business card and pretty much assumed. I asked her about it and she said she was just seeing an ob/gyn and they were just testing her blood to see if her hormones were in balance. She did express to me her desire to have a child and I told her I didn't want one at this time. We did dontinue a sexual relationship and she got pregnant, but I just suspect that it was something that the clinic did. She welcomed me to look into the records. She said all that took place was a few blood tests and an x-ray, but I don't believe her. Now here I am with another mouth to feed and its not my fault. I want to know want the court will do if I can prove that she got pregnant on purpose this way.

I saw a business card and pretty much assumed. I asked her about it and she said she was just seeing an ob/gyn and they were just testing her blood to see if her hormones were in balance. She did express to me her desire to have a child and I told her I didn't want one at this time. We did dontinue a sexual relationship and she got pregnant, but I just suspect that it was something that the clinic did. She welcomed me to look into the records. She said all that took place was a few blood tests and an x-ray, but I don't believe her. Now here I am with another mouth to feed and its not my fault. I want to know want the court will do if I can prove that she got pregnant on purpose this way.

You really have to be kidding. You KNEW that she had gone to such a clinic, she discussed having a child and you continued to have unprotected sex with her and its not your fault?? Give me a break here. Sex Education 101, it takes an egg AND a sperm to fertilize it to have a baby.

Boy you are really digging yourself in deeper and deeper:



Now here I am with another mouth to feed


Its all about money with you isn't it. Every time you sit down out your keyboard, it comes out.

Even if you can prove (and you would need to subpeona the clinic's records) that she took fertility meds and didn't tell you, the court is not likely to do anything to her.

You really have to be kidding. You KNEW that she had gone to such a clinic, she discussed having a child and you continued to have unprotected sex with her and its not your fault??? Give me a break here. Sex Education 101, it takes an egg AND a sperm to fertilize it to have a baby.

Boy you are really digging yourself in deeper and deeper:



Its all about money with you isn't it. Everytime you sit down out your keyboard, it comes out.

Even if you can prove (and you would need to subpeona the clinic's records) that she took fertility meds and didn't tell you, the court is not likely to do anything to her.

Forget about the money. I will pay whatver the court asks. What about spending more time with my child. How can I go to court and show them I deserve as much time with him as the mother.

forget about the money. I will pay whatver the court asks. What about spending more time with my child. How can I go to court and show them I deserve as much time with him as the mother.



What you say (type) when making your case and what shows through the rest of the time are two different things - you are the one who keeps bringing up support and the money.

You work for the Feds? Are you supposed to be working now? Easy enough to find out.

Once again - you take your proof of what a good person and capable parent you are - in all ways - to Court; she takes hers. The Judge reviews the situation, asks a few questions, takes some sworn testimony, may appoint a guardian ad litem for the child, maybe requires a few visits with a Social Worker, makes a decision.

And I will say that one thing that will impress the court with your change of heart and realization that being a father is important is taking responsibility for your older child. Find here, start paying child support again, be a part of her life. Or what will you tell her if she hunts you down when she's an adult? No, you didn't love her as much as you did your son?

In MD I'm told it is illegal to record a phone conseration without the other party's consent. Can someone tell me where I can find the actuall law (in COMAR) saying it is illegal in MD to record a phone conversation without the other party's consent?

Also, I would like to know if those laws only apply to phone recordings as opposed to person to person recordings. And I would like to know if it applies to video recrodings as well. Thanks

Any audio recordings are illegal unless you get the others consent.
I have seen people take answering machine tapes to the TV courts
(I guess answering machine tapes are okay)
The Judges all say they will listen to the tape but they can not base the weight of their decision on the tape.
I believe it is a federal law, but some states allow it under certain conditions I think.
"Can We Tape?" (http://www.rcfp.org/taping/)

Click on the state-by-state and then click Maryland.

Video taping is okay in some states but with guidelines.

Persons calling an answering machine know they are leaving a recorded message. Most of those machines outgoing messages say some to the effect of "Record a message after the beep"

Actually they merely have to be informed, I guess if they keep talking they are giving concent. Part of the issue with recording is proving also that the person on the other end is really the person you are saying they are.

Recording phone call law Call Recording Solutions (http://callrecordingsolutions.com/recording_phone_call_law.htm)

American Legal Guide on Recording Telephone Conversations (USA) (http://www.callcorder.com/phone-recording-law-america.htm)

Any audio recordings are illegal unless you get the others consent.
I have seen people take answering machine tapes to the TV courts
(I guess answering machine tapes are okay)
the Judges all say they will listen to the tape but they can not base the weight of their decision on the tape.
I believe it is a federal law, but some states allow it under certain conditions I think.
"Can We Tape?" (http://www.rcfp.org/taping/)

click on the state-by-state and then click Maryland.

Video taping is okay in some states but with guidelines.


I just found the legal statue for MD wiretapping and surveillance act. It is illegal to audio record another party without their consent in MD.

It seems you can videotape a person without their consent if its in a public place, but the audio part would not be admissible. This is the way I understand the wording. Ill aske my next question in the appropriate forum. Thank you

That is basically what the link I gave you said.

Any audio recordings are illegal unless you get the others consent.
I have seen people take answering machine tapes to the TV courts
(I guess answering machine tapes are okay)
the Judges all say they will listen to the tape but they can not base the weight of their decision on the tape.
I believe it is a federal law, but some states allow it under certain conditions I think.
"Can We Tape?" (http://www.rcfp.org/taping/)

click on the state-by-state and then click Maryland.

Video taping is okay in some states but with guidelines.

Thanks. I just need to know what I can and can't do regarding recording and videotaping exchanges and conversations in my child custody/support case. I wonder how admissible it would be in family court

Child support
I think that would be a whole 'nother thing depending on what you are trying to accomplish.
Are you trying to prove the mother unfit? Are there Child service case workers involved?

In MD im told it is illegal to record a phone conseration without the other party's consent. Can someone tell me where I can find the actuall law (in COMAR) saying it is illegal in MD to record a phone conversation without the other party's consent?

Also, I would like to know if those laws only apply to phone recordings as opposed to person to person recordings. And I would like to know if it applies to video recrodings as well. Thanks
In Maryland it's the two party rule - both PARTIES to the conversation have to be aware and consent. You, for example, can't record someone else and a third party.

I would check with Family Court and see what the Court's policy is.

Small Claims usually allows them - Family Court, I don't know.

And if the other party denies giving permission and/or being taped, then you have to go into voice recognition which is quite expensive.

I was thinking if child services are involved they can request to tape interactions with kids themselves at his request and all parties consent but not sure what he is getting at.

I was thinking if child services are involved they can request to tape interactions with kids themselves at his request and all parties consent but not sure what he is getting at.


Agreed - and I've seen so many of these "do it yourself" recordings with one person asking very leading, transparent questions and the other party mumbling something or other. I've never seen a Perry Mason situation where one party asks questions and the other party suddenly shouts, "Yes. I did it. I'm guilty."

Never.

The custody complaint was filed in May 07 and I started paying support in feb 08. That means 9 months of back support may be ordered. I am figint for full custody with the hope of getting at least shared. The temp CO calculated CS wth me having a min wage salary but now I have a higher paying full time job.

1) how is back child support applied in the final order.
2) Are the #overnights from holidays and vacations included when calculating CS?


3)Just because the judge gave mom temp custody, does that mean thatn she will most likely get full custody even if I fight it. I ask because I was having a conversation with a friend and he said, the judge set the status quo when he gave mom temp custody with me having every other weekend.

4)I initially told the court at the first hearing I had no other child support. But I do. Will I need to bring proof of the ordred child support amount in order to get it factored into child support worksheet

the custody complaint was filed in May 07 and I started paying support in feb 08. That means 9 months of back support may be ordered. I am figint for full custody with the hope of getting at least shared. The temp CO calculated CS wth me having a min wage salary but now I have a higher paying full time job.

1) how is back child support applied in the final order.
2) Are the #overnights from holidays and vacations included when calculating CS?


3)Just because the judge gave mom temp custody, does that mean thatn she will most likely get full custody even if i fight it. I ask because i was having a convo with a friend and he said, the judge set the status quo when he gave mom temp custody with me having every other weekend.

4)I initially told the court at the first hearing i had no other child support. But I do. Will I need to bring proof of the ordred child support amount in order to get it factored into child support worksheet


They can go back and review the figures and assess at full salary.

The overnights are not percentaged out; I have seen LENGTHY vacations percentaged out - but the custodial parent still has rent and electric and so forth for when the child returns so possibly not -

Unless you now prove the mother is unfit or come in with some dynamite evidence I would say custody stays where it is on a permanent basis. The fact that you did pay support for a number of months and appear to still be in arrears does not sound good on your side.

If you lied to the Court you will have a problem - I don't know how you are going to "whoops, mistake" when it's money that feeds/clothes your child. The Court is not going to be very forgiving and now everything you say is open to question

A lot of this depends on the State.

They can go back and review the figures and assess at full salary.

The overnights are not percentaged out; I have seen LENGTHY vacations percentaged out - but the custodial parent still has rent and electric and so forth for when the child returns so possibly not -

Unless you now prove the mother is unfit or come in with some dynamite evidence I would say custody stays where it is on a permanent basis. The fact that you did pay support for a number of months and appear to still be in arrears does not sound good on your side.

If you lied to the Court you will have a problem - I don't know how you are going to "whoops, mistake" when it's money that feeds/clothes your child. The Court is not going to be very forgiving and now everything you say is open to question

A lot of this depends on the State.

Depends on the stae as to the question of overnights. In Cali overnights count so long as its consistent. i.e. laid out in the parenting plan. So if NCP gets 4 nights a month there is one set amount and if NCP gets 6 nights a month there is a different amount. Depending on past experience with the child and how close you live to the child's reguler activities ( like school or babysitter ) can also make a difference when asking for more time. If the child is very young ( like a baby ) then try to get it graduated for more time later. So when child is 3 or 4 your time with the child is higher then until that time. Some plans offer a 50/50 being that the child spends majority of time with mom ( liberal visitation with dad ) and later the situation flips to most time with dad and mom liberal visitation. There are many ways to ask and get what you want but be sure you don't lie stretch or get yourself into something you can't deal with.

Depends on the stae as to the question of overnights. In Cali overnights count so long as its consistent. i.e. layed out in the parenting plan. So if NCP gets 4 nights a month there is one set amount and if NCP gets 6 nights a month there is a different amount. Depending on past experience with the child and how close you live to the childs reguler activities ( like school or babysitter ) can also make a difference when asking for more time. If the child is very young ( like a baby ) then try to get it graduated for more time later. So when child is 3 or 4 your time with the child is higher then until that time. Some plans offer a 50/50 being that the child spends majority of time with mom ( liberal visitation with dad ) and later the situation flips to most time with dad and mom liberal visitation. there are many ways to ask and get what you want but be sure you dont lie stretch or get yourself into something you can't deal with.


Even if I got EOW and one overnight a week (mom says I canhave one afternnoon per week, but no overnight) , it would not be enough overnights to count as shared custody, so I am wondering if I can factor in the summer vacation I am asking for (4 weeks). I was told that some courts will only count the standard visitation, whichwould not inlude summer vacation and holidays

Even if I got EOW and one overnight a week (mom says I canhave one afternnoon per week, but no overnight) , it would not be enough overnights to count as shared custody, so I am wondering if I can factor in the summer vacation I am asking for (4 weeks). I was told that some courts will only count the standard visitation, whichwould not inlude summer vacation and holidays


Again - everyone is trying to help but it varies by State. What State?

Even if I got EOW and one overnight a week (mom says I canhave one afternnoon per week, but no overnight) , it would not be enough overnights to count as shared custody, so I am wondering if I can factor in the summer vacation I am asking for (4 weeks). I was told that some courts will only count the standard visitation, whichwould not inlude summer vacation and holidays


I agree with Judy on this one. Its very hard to offer you anything solid when we don't know what state it is. The courts are kind of like Baskin Robbins. You never know what flavor till you dig in.

We may be talking about nothing depending on where you live so please let us know.

I agree with Judy on this one. Its very hard to offer you anything solid when we dont know what state it is. The courts are kinda like Baskin Robbins. You never know what flavor till you dig in.

We may be talking about nothing depending on where you live so please let us know.

MD

OK here is a page for you to go through. It speaks directly about your issues.

THE CHILD SUPPORT GUIDELINES SECTION of MD LAW (http://www.dhr.state.md.us/csea/help.htm)

Also how old is the child / children ?

I know that site. I am asking if the holiday and summer vacation overnights will be included with the number of overnights, because I was told that those were not considered as part of the overnights that could be used to determine "number of overnights in custody"

i know that site. I am asking if the holiday and summer vacation overnights will be included with the number of overnights, because I was told that those were not considered as part of the overnights that could be used to determine "number of overnights in custody"


They should count so long as they are consistent. If you have every other then it's a wash. But if you had every ( certain holiday ) then it should count. Also when going for time in the summer be sure to leave time for her to have summer vacation with the child also. At least 1 week. So if child gets 6 weeks off for summer then don't ask for all 6. Also try to remember that if you live close to the child's reguler activities like school etc then you can extend weekends etc. Like instead of returning the child on Sunday from your weekend you're the one responsible for taking the child to school on Monday. Or thursdays through Sundays every other week. It can add up quick in your favor. Also you may want to make a plea for mediation if its not automatic in your case for custody. If she truly appears to attempt to keep you from reasonable visitation it will be noted. According to your State to affect child support your going to need 35% of time. But there is also a clause that says the judge can ignore it. An example of an 80/20 split is visitation on weekdays and overnights every other weekend.

Good Luck.

They should count so long as they are consistent. If you have every other then its a wash. But if you had every ( certain holiday ) then it should count. Also when going for time in the summer be sure to leave time for her to have summer vacation with the child also. Atleast 1 week. So if child gets 6 weeks off for summer then dont ask for all 6. Also try to remember that if you live close to the childs reguler activities like school etc then you can extend weekends etc. Like instead of returning the child on sunday from your weekend your the one responsible for taking the child to school on Monday. Or thursdays through Sundays every other week. It can add up quick in your favor. Also you may want to make a plea for mediation if its not automatic in your case for custody. If she truely appears to attempt to keep you from reasonable visitation it will be noted. According to your State to affect child support your going to need 35% of time. But there is also a clause that says the judge can ignore it. An example of an 80/20 split is visitation on weekdays and overnights every other weekend.

Good Luck.


Right now, I live 30 miles from the child's residence. The daycare is at moms job so she is insisting he be returned on Sunday nights. What do you mean consisten? The only thing that would be consistent is the EOW schedule. We will have every other holidayd. She wants to split the split the time for Xmas day until he is older, but I want Xmas eve until New years day.

A friend told me that holidays and summer vacation days cannot be included as number of overnights, because its just a block of time and not part of the standard visitation. If I get 4 weeks in summer, that would definitely put me over the mark of 35%. If only the standard visitation shedule applies, I will be way below. Based on what your telling me, even if I achieved the 35%, the judge can deviate from the guidelines and make me pay the full CS? The mother and I don't speak. She has never allowed me any visitation outside the 6pm friday-6pm Sunday schedule and I don't expect her to allow any additional time after the final order is in place. We don't communicate on anything and I am afraid that the court will think shared custody won't work because of it. If she is against me having a Friday -monday morning schedule, how hard would it be for me to get this in the final order?

Right now, I live 30 miles from the childs residence. The daycare is at moms job so she is insisting he be returned on sunday nights. What do you mean consisten?. the only thing that would be consistent is the EOW schedule. We will have every other holidayd. She wants to split the split the time for Xmas day until he is older, but I want Xmas eve until New years day.

A friend told me that holidays and summer vacation days cannot be included as number of overnights, because its just a block of time and not part of the standard visitation. If I get 4 weeks in summer, that would definitely put me over the mark of 35%. If only the standard visitation shedule applies, I will be way below. Based on what your telling me, even if I achieved the 35%, the judge can deviate from the guidelines and make me pay the full CS? The mother and I dont speak. She has never allowed me any visitation outside the 6pm friday-6pm sunday schedule and I dont expect her to allow any additional time after the final order is in place. We dont communicate on anything and I am afraid that the court will think shared custody wont work because of it. If she is against me having a friday -monday morning schedule, how hard would it be for me to get this in the final order?


I can guarantee 100% that you are not going to get permanent Christmas Eve to New Years Day if your ex disagrees.

Otherwise this is CalifDad's territory - NYS is different.

I can guarantee 100% that you are not going to get permanent Christmas Eve to New Years Day if your ex disagrees.

Otherwise this is CalifDad's territory - NYS is different.


I've seen some pland that have that schedule. My family lives in another state. I have no family here whatsoever. Ex wants a scheudle where one parent has xmas eve 6pm to Xmas Day 3pm, then other parent gets 3pm xmas day to 6pm the day after xmas. I would think that's unreasonable and interrupts my holiday time with my child. She says there is no point having and extended break since child is so young and not in grade school. We have not spoken in several months. This is based on my talk with her before things went sour.

I have seen more cases with split holidays as every other holiday every other year. This would mean that the child(ren) is with one parent for christmas including new year one year and the other the next. The same follows with other hollidays as well. Summer is generally done as a block of time with the non-custodial parent the same time every year because that isn't a holiday.

ive seen some pland that have that schedule. My family lives in another state. I have no family here whatsoever. Ex wants a scheudle where one parent has xmas eve 6pm to Xmas Day 3pm, then other parent gets 3pm xmas day to 6pm the day after xmas. I would think thats unreasonable and interrupts my holiday time with my child. She says there is no point having and extended break since child is so young and not in grade school. We have not spoken in several months. This is based on my talk with her before things went sour.


I have seen one parent have the week leading to Christmas and perhaps the following day and the other have from that day through NY but I have never - and I'm in NYS - seen a disputed visitation over Christmas that ended up with a permanent "one parent has the whole holiday" schedule. I have seen years that alternate - one parent the entire period one year and the other parent the following year - and there are lots of Orders out there I am not aware of (!) but I personally have never seen this.

Keep in mind that when I get involved it's because there is a dispute of some sort going on.

What I mean by consistent is that its exclusive to you. If you trade off then the time is a wash. Its equal so there is no gain no loss. What you have to remember is that when going to court what you read here or anywhere else is just a guideline. No one can predict what a judge will do or say on any given day. Depending on the age of the child you might be able to compromise and allow mom the child's return on Sunday but stipulate that when the child turns ( insert your number ) then overnights are extended through Sunday. Its something to consider since you want to gain time with your child as the ultimate goal.

Can someone explain the mediation process? What, if any, kind of questions does the mediator ask before providing recommendations?


How does Age health and gender of the child factor in to custody? My child is a healthy 16 month old boy, I am the father.


Why would it not be a good idea to start shared custody at this age when it would not adversely affect the child... or would it?

Mediation is simply the use of a (hopefully) trained professional to try and broker a compromise agreeable to all parties. What they will ask depends on the circumstances.

Age and health bear on the parents ability to raise a child. For example, an infant that is breastfeeding won't be able to spend overnites with the father.

Again, the circumstances are different with each case. At 16 months there is still a lot of bonding between the mother more than the father. So pulling the child from the mother for extended periods may not be best for the child.

So in your opinion (and I hope others can chime in on this) Is it best for a child this age not to have midweek overnight visitation? Would and evening (6-8) visitation be better?

I am about 30 min away (40-60 in traffic) from the child so I would think midweek overnights wouldn't work if she disagrees.

Right now I get EOW Friday 6pm to Sunday 6pm. Can I extend this to pick up child from daycare on Friday and return him to daycare Monday morning. Mom says this is not necessary since the daycare is across from her job.

To be honest, there are too many variables here for me to answer. Your attorney should be prepping you on what is doable given your coircumstances.

So in your opinion (and I hope others can chime in on this) Is it best for a child this age not to have midweek overnight visitation? Would and evening (6-8) visitation be better?

I am about 30 min away (40-60 in traffic) from the child so I would think midweek overnights wouldnt work if she disagrees.

Right now I get EOW friday 6pm to sunday 6pm. Can I extend this to pick up child from daycare on friday and return him to daycare monday morning. Mom says this is not necessary since teh daycare is across from her job.


I'm confused when I compare this post to your other posts - I can't quite get a grasp on the situation.

However - I am not certain that it is in the best interest of a toddler to go back and forth between parents for more than one overnight. Some children, obviously, make the switch more easily than others. Without knowing the child and the set up for the child in both houses I think it's impossible to know what is best.

The mediator will look at several factors, many of which you've already posted and the Board has already addressed.

As far as mediators - and I know other people will disagree - in most but not all cases I am not in favor of using a mediator. Some mediators are more skilled than others and I've seen least angry of the two participants, the least forceful, give up and agree to terms that the Court would never order. I've seen mediators make recommendations based on the mediator's untrained evaluation of people's stability and mental health.

There also was someone posting on this board who is/was a mediator based on some classes and absolutely no education. I found the situation to be chilling. I would check on the qualifications of the mediator - I would not meet with anyone who did not attend law school, who did not know the laws in your particular State.

Our court case ended a coupe weeks ago. Custody, visitation and child support awarded. I filed an exception to change the pickup time from 6pm to 7pm because the following visitation after court, I emailed ax and asked her to let me pickup ds late. She said no, because the order says we had to be on time. I wanted to come late because of work. She pointed out that I told the court I had a flexible schedule. I do. They post the schedule every week and sometimes I get off at 4, 5, or 6 depending on when they require me to come in. I testified to this in court. She said I mislead the court because I don't have a flex schdedule. I have a rotation scheudle, like shift work.


Before I always made the 6pm pickup time with the exception of missed visitaiton for out of town work. I submitted the email My ex says I can't use it as evidence because it occurred after the court date and does not mee the criteria of evidence that wasn't presented in court.


I also requested for us to meet at a police station because I believe my ex is hostile.

I also asked that a councilor or third party represent the child becaue I don't want to deal with exchanging my child with my ex.

What are the possibilities that the court will reconsider the ruling to include these requests?

It isn't likely that you will get back into court for such a small change. This is something that you are better off dealing with your employer about. I realize that you don't want to go against your boss but you can bring in a copy of the order as back up for your story about why you can't work till 6.

It isn't likely that you will get back into court for such a small change. This is something that you are better off dealing with your employer about. I realize that you don't want to go against your boss but you can bring in a copy of the order as back up for your story about why you can't work till 6.


What about the other requests? My ex responded and said the following


I should be denied because

1. the email is dated after the court trial
2. I hve never missed a 6pm pickup
3. Nothing in the court findings warranted the exchange be at the police station or that a third party should do the exchange.


Also, she filed a reconsideration for back child support. Apparently, it was not included in the support calculation and she wrote that my son is entitled to back child support from the date of filing which was May 2007 of last year.

This is regarding my older child. I am now in MD. I was divorced in VA and my ex got custody of our daughter. I was paying child support but then eventually she moved to SC and took our daughter without my knowledge. That was about 6 years ago and I never saw my daughter again. I eventually stopped paying CS beasue I wasn't working. Apparently she filed for child support some years ago in SC and I was found to owe them. I recently discovered that I owe over 28K in back child support. I think she was double dipping at some point. Shouldn't I be paying support to VA instead of SC? What can I do to get them to cancel the back support?

I suggest getting an attorney to sort this out. Theorectically, when she refiled in SC, that should havde cancelled the payments owed in VA EXCEPT for the back support.

So your saying although she illegally took our child out of state, and with a VA order in place, she can transfer her support to another state, although I didn't agree to her moving? How is that fair?

Her taking the child out of state is a separate issue. That refers to custody and visitation. Generally, those are dealt with separately from support.

Without knowing the terms of your custody/visitation, I don't know whether her moving was wrong or not. Nor have you mentioned what you have done to get enforce the custody/visitation.

Those are all things that should have been brought up when you were in front of the judge. A judge will not rehear a case so soon after he/she ruled because you forgot to mention some things. If you did bring up those other concerns at the hearing the judge simply ruled against you.

Her taking the child out of state is a separate issue. That refers to custody and visitation. Generally, those are dealt with separately from support.

Without knowing the terms of your custody/visitation, I don't know whether her moving was wrong or not. Nor have you mentioned what you have done to get enforce the custody/visitation.


I didn't do anything. Its been at least 5 years without contact. Our original court order for custody, visitation, and child support was in VA when we were both living there and without warning, she moved away at night and took our duaghet to SC where her family lives. I eventually made plans to move to South america, but I returned to my hometown in FL. I now live in MD where I have another child and I pay CS for that child.

So does that mean she will not get back child support awarded?

So she violated the visitation but you did nothing to enforce it. Also you decided on your own to stop paying support rather then seek a legal modification. That's 2 strikes against you.

They should not be able to collect support in VA past the point whre she filed for support in SC. But they certainly can go after the unpaid back support.

No, child support is usually figured from the date of filling. So the payments would be the same for current support but you would be in arrears so would be making higher payments until the arrears are caught up. There is a possibility that she won't get it but I am surprised that it wasn't done from the start.

Are these two threads about the same child? Or are they about two different children? I ask becaue you just brought up back support on the other thread as well.

They are about two different children. This is about my daughter. The other is about my son, who is by another woman. I haver support orders for both in different states

If it wasn't done, would that be considered an error on the judges part. Actually it wasn't a judge, he was more like a master who makes recommendations in an order for the judge to sign. She is pretty confident she will get the back support. I got a copy of her exception and it says that my son is entitled to back support and she also stated that I delayed the case which resulted in several months without my son receiveing support.

My order states that my ex is supposed to inform me of medical treatment related to my child. It also states that she has final say if we can't come to an agreement. If she takes him to the doctor and doesn't tell me until afterwards, can I take her for contempt?

Ok, new question, can my ex take me for contempt if she doesn't receive the CS by the next payment due date. That will be a third missed payment (Oct, Nove, Dec)

I have modified my questions

If you do not pay your child support on time, she can take you back to court to find you in contempt, she may also turn it over to child support enforcement, most states allow you to be arrested before any hearing if you are over so many payments late.
Also they can take your drivers license in many states for being behind.

You can take her to court for not tellng you about taking the child to the doctor, doubt if the judge will take it seriously, most likely see you are a trouble maker ( sorry but judges hage seeing couples using kids to fight each other.

The case is already with CSE. The order states I am to by wage lien to CSE who I assume will give my ex the payment. How would it be my fault for contempt if it's the employer's responsibility to deduct from my pay ans send to CSE. Will CSE go after my employer and me, or just me?

Also, how can you assume that I am a troublemaker?

We don't fight, we just don't communicate. She refuses to discuss anything with me via email because she thinks my girlfriend is writing the emails for me. While she does help me word things, its what I want to say.

The case is already with CSE. The order states I am to by wage lien to CSE who I assume will give my ex the payment. How would it be my fault for contempt if its the employer's responsibility to deduct from my pay ans send to CSE. Will CSE go after my employer and me, or just me?

Also, how can you assume that I am a troublemaker?

We don't fight, we just don't communicate. She refuses to discuss anything with me via email because she thinks my gf is writing the emails for me. While she does help me word things, its what I want to say.


If the money was taken out of your wages by your employer you have legally paid your ordered child support - what they employer has done with the money is your employer's problem. Not saying you won't get pulled back into Court, just saying I don't see this being your "fault."

The troublemaking part stems from your concerns about medical treatment of your child, treatment which apparently your ex-wife feels/felt was necessary and now you are asking about holding her in contempt. If the final say was hers, anyway, I don't know why the Court required her to consult you as opposed to simply advising you, either before or after the fact.

I'm sure you know having your girlfriend involved in this situation is not healthy for anyone, including your child who should be your first priority. Not saying she shouldn't be involved in the child's life, just saying your dealings with your ex are really none of her business.

The case is already with CSE. The order states I am to by wage lien to CSE who I assume will give my ex the payment. How would it be my fault for contempt if its the employer's responsibility to deduct from my pay ans send to CSE. Will CSE go after my employer and me, or just me?

Also, how can you assume that I am a troublemaker?

We don't fight, we just don't communicate. She refuses to discuss anything with me via email because she thinks my gf is writing the emails for me. While she does help me word things, its what I want to say.

Here's part of the problem: you didn't state initially that your employer is supposed to be sending in the CS payment. Fr_Chuck answered you based upon the information you provided. Obviously, it's out of your hands if your employer isn't getting the money to Child Support in a timely fashion.

Secondly, Fr_Chuck didn't say that you are a troublemaker; he said that's what the court will see it as. There are a lot of parents out there who don't abide by the terms agreed to and my husband's ex-wife is one of them. However, he doesn't run back to court every time she signs the kids up for baseball or takes them to the dentist without consulting him because that's like the boy who cried wolf; the court is going to be less likely to believe him if/when something major happens.

If your ex refuses to discuss anything through e-mail, that's fine. The bottom line is that it's getting discussed. As long as you're both considering what's in the best interest of the child(ren), then there's no issue here.

My employer has not began deducting the money from my checks. Its been two pay periods since they have received the order and nothing has happened. She is also quick to file, and my third payment since the order is due on December. If the employer refuses to deduct the money, the employer wiill be in contempt right? I don't see why I should if I can't control them taking money out of my check. My ex has already reminded me I am two payments behind. I am sure if she doesn't get anything on Dec 1, she will head straight to court and file contempt.

My employer has not began deducting the money from my checks. its been two pay periods since they hav received the order and nothing has happened. She is also quick to file, and my third payment since teh order is due on december. If the employer refuses to deduct the money, the employer wiill be in contempt right? I dont see why I should if i can't control them taking money out of my check. My ex has already reminded me I am two payments behind. I am sure if she doesnt get anything on Dec 1, she will head straight to court and file contempt.



This is how I see it - it takes some time for the employer to receive and implement the order. You knew money wasn't being taken from your check for child support. You didn't pay it direct. Did you notify the Court/your employer/your ex IN WRITING.

You owe the money and can end the contempt charge by paying it, even if you pay it late. If you don't want to keep getting hauled back into Court because of your complicated life - I've read your past posts - pay child support as ordered and if it's necessary to have it deducted from your checks, then make sure it actually is.

I see no contempt on anyone's part but yours.

This is how I see it - it takes some time for the employer to receive and implement the order. You knew money wasn't being taken from your check for child support. You didn't pay it direct. Did you notify the Court/your employer/your ex IN WRITING.

You owe the money and can end the contempt charge by paying it, even if you pay it late. If you don't want to keep getting hauled back into Court because of your complicated life - I've read your past posts - pay child support as ordered and if it's necessary to have it deducted from your checks, then make sure it actually is.

I see no contempt on anyone's part but yours.

No, I didn't think it was my business, and I didn't twant to interfere. I am already on the fence because I have two wage garnishment orders, and if my employer wants, the can fire me. I just rather let them do what they are supposed to do and ask me questions if necessary.

I do see contempt on her part. She is supposed to consult me on all major issues and she has not. I don't even know where my child's doctor and daycare is. The mother says that the order specified school, not daycare, and she says she doesn't want me going up there because the order states she is supposed to give me the info, but it doesn't say I can't get it myself. She says if I go the daycare will call her and she will come to remove my child (daycare is at her job). If she is not giving me info, or taking my child to the doc without my knowledge, can't I file contempt?

No, I didnt think it was my business, and I didn twant to interfere. I am already on the fence because I have two wage garnishment orders, and if my employer wants, the can fire me. I just rather let them do what they are supposed to do and ask me questions if necessary.

Congratulations; I do believe msir deserves the "Cop-out of the Year" award. Am I reading this right, that you "didn't want to interfere" with the money that is supposed to be supporting your children but wasn't? Give me a break. Of course it's your business; it's your money and your children.


I do see contempt on her part. She is supposed to consult me on all major issues and she has not. I dont even know where my childs doctor and daycare is. The mother says that the order specified school, not daycare, and she says she doesnt want me going up there becuase the order states she is supposed to give me the info, but it doesnt say I can't get it myself. She says if I go the daycare will call her and she will come to remove my child (daycare is at her job). If she is not giving me info, or taking my child to the doc without my knowledge, can't I file contempt?

Why does it bother you if she takes your child to the doctor? If she was neglecting your child, then I would say you've got something to complain about. My stepkids mother signs them up for baseball without talking to my husband and then demands half the enrollment fees. She takes them to the dentist and then tells him to give her post-dated checks for the balance of what his insurance didn't cover. She puts the kids in the middle of their financial situation constantly by telling them that Daddy needs to pay for their lunch milk, shoes, etc. All of these things are something that technically, he could file for contempt for. He chooses not to. And do you know why? Because nothing's going to change. The judge will readvise her that she is supposed to be sharing these things with him; she'll say "Okay, I will"; she'll leave court angry at my husband because she got called out and will continue to keep the information from him, if not on a greater level.

So go ahead, file for contempt. But I'm telling you right now, you're only going to waste your time & money and all you're going to accomplish is making your ex angry.

My employer has not began deducting the money from my checks. its been two pay periods since they hav received the order and nothing has happened. She is also quick to file, and my third payment since teh order is due on december. If the employer refuses to deduct the money, the employer wiill be in contempt right? I dont see why I should if i can't control them taking money out of my check. My ex has already reminded me I am two payments behind. I am sure if she doesnt get anything on Dec 1, she will head straight to court and file contempt.

Regardless of where the money is coming from as far as your employer is concerned its still your obligation. Would jail time help remind you to pay your child support? Would losing 65% of your gross be OK with you ? Are you positive you can live on that after taxes ? If you answered no to any of the above questions then I suggest you stop playing games and get real. YOU owe child support and its up to YOU to see that its paid. If your employer isn't taking it out then you still have those funds available to you to disburse at your discrection. In many states that have an aggressive child support enforcement what I have mention already is just the tip of what they can do should they want to. Be a dad and not a dummy. Play it smart. Pay your support on time and pay your arrears right away. If you object to the amounts etc then that's something you will have to take up with the judge.

No, I didnt think it was my business, and I didn twant to interfere. I am already on the fence because I have two wage garnishment orders, and if my employer wants, the can fire me. I just rather let them do what they are supposed to do and ask me questions if necessary.

I do see contempt on her part. She is supposed to consult me on all major issues and she has not. I dont even know where my childs doctor and daycare is. The mother says that the order specified school, not daycare, and she says she doesnt want me going up there becuase the order states she is supposed to give me the info, but it doesnt say I can't get it myself. She says if I go the daycare will call her and she will come to remove my child (daycare is at her job). If she is not giving me info, or taking my child to the doc without my knowledge, can't I file contempt?


If you already know the answers, why do you continue to post qustions?

You asked; several people answered. Arguing with me isn't going to change my advice.

I've read through your past posts - everyone is wrong and/or responsible for your (various) misfortunes. Judges, Attorneys, your employers all made mistakes. Meanwhile in order to get you to pay for the food your children eat it's been necessary to file a wage garnishment against you.

So it's your opinion that when your child needs medical care your ex-wife has to contact you, the deadbeat father, to get your "permission" to get that care - which she will undoubtedly have to pay for because you don't think paying support for your child is - and I quote - "your business."

If you already know the answers, why do you continue to post qustions?

You asked; several people answered. Arguing with me isn't going to change my advice.

I've read through your past posts - everyone is wrong and/or responsible for your (various) misfortunes. Judges, Attorneys, your employers all made mistakes. Meanwhile in order to get you to pay for the food your children eat it's been necessary to file a wage garnishment against you.

So it's your opinion that when your child needs medical care your ex-wife has to contact you, the deadbeat father, to get your "permission" to get that care - which she will undoubtedly have to pay for because you don't think paying support for your child is - and I quote - "your business."

Well, thanks, I am taking responsibility. I will do what I can, I am just tired of ex harping on me when the order says the job has to take it out. It doesn't require me to pay he directly so I am just waiting for them todo the wage garnishment. I am told it is a burden for them, but it should be just as simple as taking out money for my health insurance. They do it on my first pay, so why not now. I guess I have to talk to them

NCP, me, is directed to pay CS via wage garnishment. The garnishment has not started. The order states until the garnishment starts the NCP makes the payments himself. CSEA has me behind 3 payments. I have sent a payment directly to the CP. I think I was supposed to send to CSEA. I want to send CSEA a letter stating I paid CP and submit copy of money order stub. Will they give me credit for it in their system?


What happens if my job refuses to never honor the wage withholding order but I continue paying on my own to not get behind. Will they dismiss the wage withholding order and continue letting me pay on my own?

NCP, me, is directed to pay CS via wage garnishment. The garnishment has not started. The order states until the garnishment starts the NCP makes the payments himself. CSEA has me behind 3 payments. I have sent a payment directly to the CP. I think I was supposed to send to CSEA. I want to send CSEA a letter stating I payed CP and submit copy of money order stub. Will they give me credit for it in their system?


What happens if my job refuses to never honor the wage withholding order but I continue paying on my own to not get behind. will they dismiss the wage withholding order and continue letting me pay on my own?

You should get credit for what you paid directly, of course.

As to your employer not honoring the wage assignment, you might tell them to watch out. In California an employer who willfully refuses to honor a wage assignment is directly liable to the support obligee for the support payment not withheld, PLUS interest. (Family Code Section 5421(a).) In other words, if your employer doesn't deduct the support from your paycheck, the employer OWES IT DIRECTLY TO THE CP HIMSELF WITH INTEREST FOR BEING LATE! They get notified of all this stuff with the wage assignment order.

Will the wage assignment order be dismissed for the failure of your employer to honor it? Ah, NO WAY.

I've already sent her the payment . How can I prove to dcsea that I paid directly to cp. The order states I must pay to dcsea until wage holding starts. Right now dcsea has me delinquent on all payments which is correct. I havvnt sent any nor ha job since order so ii sent this one to her to not get behind. She thinks its not cs because its not through DCSEA as ordered and says I'm still responsible for all payments.

I've already sent her the payment . how can I prove to dcsea that I paid directly to cp. the order states I must pay to dcsea until wage holding starts. right now dcsea has me delinquent on all payments which is correct. I havvnt sent any nor ha job since order so ii sent this one to her to not get behind. She thinks its not cs because its not thru DCSEA as ordered and says im still responsible for all payments.

No, you'll get credit for anything you pay. The mom's not going to be able to double dip.

You prove your payments by copies of the checks you sent showing she cashed them (NEVER said cash-- in almost any dispute over cash payments in which it's your word against hers you're going to lose). Be sure to send all future payments to your local child support agency as ordered and you should be fine. And give them copies of any checks you wrote to the mom already and ask they give you credit.

What state are you in? I know in some jurisdictions (like mine) if you are ordered to pay through the child support office then you are only allowed to send one payment directly to the cp they will credit that one payment (with your proof obviously) but any more than that is a "gift".

What state are you in? I know in some jurisdictions (like mine) if you are ordered to pay through the child support office then you are only allowed to send one payment directly to the cp they will credit that one payment (with your proof obviously) but any more than that is a "gift".

Would that be in fam law regs.
My order states first payment only to be directly to ex. Garnishment to start after that. I pay to dcsea until iit starts. I paid that 3 months ago. Garnish had not started and csea says I'm 3 moonth arrears so I sent her another oone recently.

Have you asked your place of employment why they hadn't started taking payments out? If it shows that you are in arrrears then you neen to make a payment through the dcsea in order for it to credit properly.

Have you asked your place of employment why they hadn't started taking payments out? If it shows that you are in arrrears then you neen to make a payment through the dcsea in order for it to credit properly.

Not going to do that. I have 2 CS WOs against me and they could fire me if they wanted. Don't want to press issue with them.

Then I should have sent it to csea instead of her. Now I have too prove I gave her money.

A order to garnish pay has to be honored, in most states if they refuse to withhold the pay, they can actually be held liable thierself to pay it.

a order to garnish pay has to be honored, in most states if they refuse to withhold the pay, they can actually be held liable thierself to pay it.

That's true. That's what I said about California. If an employer doesn't withhold for it under an order they owe it themselves.

Its in my older thread

Is is worth it to go back to court over a legal custody issue, such as not providing the NCP with the required ordrered information?


I'd say it depends on what you have to win or lose -

Also important to read the other threads to find out what this situation is. Probably should be combined for ease in responding. For example: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/family-law/will-judge-re-hear-our-case-263152.html

OK, ill add it to the other thread

Ok so my motion got denied and ex's got heard and I have to pay more CS. Now I want to know if its worth taking her back to court over legal issues because ex is ordered to give me ds medical/school infor. Although he is indaycare I would think daycare applies to. I know of an upcoming event she didn't inform me of. I can't go because its too late. She is not doing what she is supposed to. Is it worth going back for contempt of this. How would the court penalize ex for not obeying the order

If your child is in daycare then it would stand to reason that you too know the daycare people. Do you ask questions when you pick your child up from there ?

If your child is in daycare then it would stand to reason that you too know the daycare people. Do you ask questions when you pick your child up from there ?

I never pick him up or take him to daycare. I never have him overnight during the work week.

My ex says she is preparing to file contempt against me and my employernow. Can she do that? Shouldn't that be at the descretion of CSE if they felt the need? Obviously CSE doesn't feel its necessary or else they would file. It is not my fault that my job has not started garnishing my pay as of yet?

I would say you should keep track of all payments sent to the CP. Please send them via registered mail and get a delivery receipt for service through the post office. Also in the memo line please indicate the payment is for child support and indicate what month. She can request that they go through the contempt process. However if your employer was served than you don't have to worry about the charges being filed against you. Can you ask your Human Resources Department what the hold up is. Do it in writing so you have a trail.

I would say you should keep track of all payments sent to the CP. Please send them via registered mail and get a delivery receipt for service through the post office. Also in the memo line please indicate the payment is for child support and indicate what month. She can request that they go through the contempt process. However if your employer was served than you don't have to worry about the charges being filed against you. Can you ask your Human Resources Department what the hold up is. Do it in writing so you have a trail.

The order staed everything goes through CSE and via wage garnishment. Technically, she would be correct if she stated she hasn't received 3 of the 4 payments that are due to her. I just don't think its her place to file since the case is with CSE

OCSE filed contempt on me for nonmpayment of support. The order to pay OCSE has been in effect for four months and Ive only been able to make 1 payment to the CP. I have a hearing in Mid feb. What is going to happen and what can I do to address the contempt charges.

Also, I filed for modification of child support due to financial hardship. Right now it is leaving me with less than 1k to live on monthly. Will the judge reduce my support due to financial hardship?

I have to go to a hearing because OCSE filed contempt for nonpayment against me. What will happen at that hearing? Will I be sent to jail.

Its unlikely you will be sent to jail, unless you refuse to pay. Most likely your wages will be garnished for the support payments.

Its unlikely you will be sent to jail, unless you refuse to pay. Most likely your wages will be garnished for the support payments.

Garnishment was in the original order since October and my employer never began the garnishment. So in the past five months Ive only made one payment, but I guess child support enforcement still filed on me.

garnishment was in the original order since October and my employer never began the garnishment. so in the past five months Ive only made one payment, but I guess child support enforcement still filed on me.

If you've only made one child support payment since October, of course they're going to file for contempt because you are in contempt. There is a order in place which you haven't been paying on. If your employer never began garnishment, it's your responsibility to find out why they haven't and to make sure they do, and if they don't, then you need to send the money in yourself.

They've filed for contempt to find out why you haven't been paying. You're not going to go to jail... yet. You need to catch up on your payments as soon as possible and make sure that you stay current so that this doesn't happen again.

Was your employer also served? It is illegal for your employer to not process a court ordered garnishment.

What will probably happen is a new garnishment order will be issued for the original amount Plus an amount to pay off the arrears.

Now my question to you is why you let it go this far? Why haven't you been paying?

Was your employer also served? it is illegal for your employer to not process a court ordered garnishment.

What will probably happen is a new garnishment order will be issued for the original amount Plus an amount to pay off the arrears.

Now my question to you is why you let it go this far? Why haven't you been paying?

Yes, according to CSE, they have been issued the garnishmen order 4 times. My ex is threatening to file for contempt on the job for not honoring the order. Can she really do that?

So my montly amount goes up? I am already paying over 700/month. With my perosnal bills and child support for my older child, I simply can't afford it. About how much more will it go up. Is economic hardship enough to modify for a lower support?

Its my employers job to garnish but they didn't. I now know I was supposed to pay until they garnished, but I am struggling to make a living.

If you truly can't afford the amount of support, you can request to have it lowered. However, it has to be due to actual economic hardship; you can't be driving a brand-new car and living in a mansion, then claim that you can't afford the ordered amount of support.

At least in TN and GA, if a company is served, and don't pay, they can be sued and held liable for all the money they were suppose to take out by the person asking for the garnishment.
** if of course you are a real employee, not a 1099 worker.

And in some states, like TN and GA, if you are that many months behind, yes, men often get sent to jail for a few weeks for non payment of child support, but that varies.

If it was not being garnished and you knew it was to be garnished why did you not just send them a check each week??

And of course now, they are going to order so much current payment and so much back payment, so now you will be paying more per week

If you truly can't afford the amount of support, you can request to have it lowered. However, it has to be due to actual economic hardship; you can't be driving a brand-new car and living in a mansion, then claim that you can't afford the ordered amount of support.

Actually, I did get a new/used car around December. This was necessary because I have a long commute to work and I was driving a lemon on its last leg before.

I am concerned about going to jail. There is no way I keep a roof over my head and pay this insane amount. According to recent letters form CSE, they have reported me to the credit companies, and have threatened to suspend my licence in 30 days if no payment is received.

I have an out of state license. Can they still suspend it if they only referred me to the state DMV?

Your license will be suspended in the State in which it was issued. Obviously no one can suspend a license you don't have.

If you have lived in your current state for over 30 days and are not in college or the military, your current license is invalid anyway by your state law.
But yes they will find it and suspend it

And how would I be able to pick up my child?

And how would I be able to pick up my child?


Either the child would be dropped off and picked up or you would take a bus and/or cab or a relative or friend would drive you.

Happens all the time.

In fact, if you're jailed for contempt you won't even have to worry about it.

Just for the heck of it - what model and year car did you buy, being unable to pay child support and all.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, but I don't think you understand the situation here. You were ordered to pay X amount of dollars in child support; you neglected to do so. If your employer wasn't sending it in, you should have noticed that it wasn't coming out of your paycheck. You chose not to, and now you're trying to say that the amount is too much. Why didn't you contest it when it was ordered back in October?

The courts aren't going to play around; you have a child and you need to support it. They will suspend your license, put you in jail, etc. until you get current. And if something like that were to happen, it's going to put you even further behind than you are now. They don't want to hear that you needed a new car, or that you need your driver's license, or any other reason. The bottom line is that they want you to pay, and they'll do everything in their power to make sure that you do.

Why is the year and make of my car so important. Its much better than the one I had before. I have to drive 45 min, even longer in traffic to get tot work

why is the year and make of my car so important. Its much better than the one I had before. I have to drive 45 min, even longer in traffic to get tot work


It's only important because you say you can't afford to support your child, yet you were able to buy a car, which you won't be able to drive once your driver's license is suspended.

You brought up the subject. I did not and you still haven't answered.

What I don't understand is what you have been doing since October. You knew you had to pay, yet you did nothing to do so.

And I also don't understand your employer. What possible grounds did they have to not deduct the support.

I don't think you will be going to jail, though may have to spend weekends in jail. If you are in jail you can't support your child. But you could have your license suspended and other sanctions.

These people are asking these questions because the judge will also take it into consideration if you contest the amount of child support you are paying. The amount awarded usually reflects the amount of money you earn, & that is quite a lot of money for one child.
We are all saying that you knew you were supposed to pay--by court order. It is your child. Why would you not want to? Then when it hits you in the face you claim it was your employer's fault? No matter, what's done is done, and you have to pay. Don't let your children grow up thinking their daddy is a loser. No matter what happened with the ex, make them part of your life. They need you, both financially and emotionally.
Talk to a lawyer. Maybe one could get you out of hot water--for a price.If you truly think you are paying too much child support think of how much you would be spending if they lived with you! Would you still have the same lifestyle?

I'm going to talk to my payroll. I'v submitted half the payment from this pay and will submit the other half if there is no garnishment next pay, ill send one in. My hearing is at the end of March, so with me paying consitently by that time, what will happen?

If you show that you have been making payments and paying the arrears, then the contempt charges against you should be dismissed.

If you show that you have been making payments and paying the arrears, then the contempt charges against you should be dismissed.


Not that Scott needs me to agree, but I agree with Scott - :)

You're on the right track.
You also need to make up any back due support. You can make arrangements.
Now I'm sure your 9 year old would really be thrilled to at least have some kind of contact from you, perhaps something tangible. A letter would be perfect. She can read it over and over again and no doubt will.

I have to go to a hearing because OCSE filed contempt for nonpayment against me. What will happen at that hearing? Will I be sent to jail.

Contempts are treated like criminal cases.

The first hearing is an arraignment. You are told what's going on and asked to enter a plea-- guilty or not guilty. If not guilty you are set for a pre-trial hearing and later trial.

You have a right to a trial (non-jury because of the maximum jail time isn't enough to require a jury) and a public defender because jail time is a possibility. You can't be sent to jail right off the bat because you have due process rights. So don't worry about that.

Defenses are many. If the contempt has to do with non-payment of support, inability to pay is the most common defense. You have all the same rights as a criminal defendant (not to be called as a witness, etc).

Here is the schedule in the order:

In 2009 mom gets easter and school vacation. Mom informed me of the upcoming easter spring break saying the dates of the official spring break. Thedates she gave are those in her county for public schools. I have a midweek visit with the child that week. She told me her spring break trumps my visit that week. I told her that my visit still stands since the order did not give specific dates for spring break. My son is in daycare and I don't think school vacation should apply since the daycare doesn't have one. But she says the order specifically givers her a 2009 spring break.

Also, it says that on the child's b-day each parent has reasonable time with the child. I told her that since she had him last year (when only a temp CO was in place, no specifics) I should get him this year. His b-day is on a weekend day. She is not budging and only offering me a four hour period based on the available times she has given after making her b-day plans. She says that that's reasonable particularly since its on her weekend time. She said he is to be returned by 8 to get him ready for bed since the next day is a Monday. She told me to call her because she didn't like emailing and that I needed to do it before the child's b-day which is next week. I don't like talking to her. Her reasoning is that she does not like the back and forth emailing when it can be resolved in one conversation, and she also can't confirm that I am actually writing and sending the emails.

What can I do here. Is she right about the easter? Also, what about the b-day. Do I not get to have him all day on his b-day? Is four hours reasonable on a Sunday?

You can always go back to Court for clarification - here (in NY) a vacation specifically addressed trumps the "usual" visitation. As far as last year's birthday I don't think it legally has any impact on this year's birthday.

Do I think 4 hours is reasonable - no, but I'm not the mother.

You can always go back to Court for clarification - here (in NY) a vacation specifically addressed trumps the "usual" visitation. As far as last year's birthday I don't think it legally has any impact on this year's birthday.

Do I think 4 hours is reasonable - no, but I'm not the mother.

So the straight answer is she can take spring break over my visit?


Ok, well mom is saying that she wants to have b-day time from 12-4. Would that be reasonable? We really don't have time to get clarification since both events are next week

In NY, yes, the spring break cancels that week's visit - if the Order calls for her to have the child during spring break. It appears that that is how your Order was drafted.

If you have a split birthday and the child needs to wake up, get dressed, go to bed, maybe there only are 8 viable visiting hours in the day and the 4 hour limit is not unreasonable.

I think it's a short visit but, again, I'm not the mother and legally it doesn't look like specific hours are addressed.

If ever you do go back to court over visitation issues then I suggest you ask the courts to grant resolution by mediation when you 2 encounter a problem and it will keep you out of the courts. Another thing is that so long as the emails are reasonable then I don't see a problem with it. It seems she fears them because once you press send.. its forever.

If ever you do go back to court over visitation issues then I suggest you ask the courts to grant resolution by mediation when you 2 encounter a problem and it will keep you out of the courts. Another thing is that so long as the emails are reasonable then I dont see a problem with it. It seems she fears them because once you press send .. its forever.

Right now, she has blocked my email and told me to call about my child's upcoming birthday. So, if I don't call, and she doest call me, can I file contempt for not allowing me reasonable visitation

right now, she has blocked my email and told me to call about my childs upcoming bday. So, if I dont call, and she doest call me, can I file contempt for not allowing me reasonable visitation

Its not contempt if you do not try to make contact.

I filed contempt for denial of visit, and motion to modify support against my ex. She hired a lawyer who sent me a 10 page discovery asking for lots of financial info. Because I didn't respond to it, the lawyer sent me warning letter and then sent me a motion to compel that asked for me to submit the infor and pay my ex's lawyers fees. Will I have to pay her lawyer fees even though I am the one filing the complaint because she denied me visitation?

You didn't respond to the Discovery regardless if it was one page or 10 pages. The attorney's fees can and will be awarded if the Judge has to take the time to hear the Motion to Compel Discovery. This is quite common procedure and is not an idle threat by the attorney. It's perfectly legal to ask for attorney's fees in order to get someone to comply with a discovery of financial matters. If you don't comply and have to go to a hearing, the Judge will ask you why you didn't comply and answer the questions and then award the attorney's fees to the other attorney. The attorney just can't charge you attorney's fees unless the Judge so orders them to be paid.

And yes, it does not matter who filed the complaint in the matter.

And yes, it does not matter who filed the complaint in the matter.

Why doesn't it matter when I am the victim?

I filed both a contempt/show cause against her as well as a motion to reduce CS because of financial hardship. As part of the show cause, ex could have got a public defender (free lawyer) so why should I have to pay. The motion to compel was asking for ridiculous financial info. I also filed a discover asking for infor. The ex didn't want to respond because she said it had nothting to do with the discovery and CS. She later gave it to me through her lawyer. I then sent a letter to the court stating I should have to pay her fees because she could have got a PD. I am the complaintant in this matter and don't see why I would have to end up paying her fees when I am trying to reduce support. If she is found guilt of contempt, do I still have to pay her fees. We go to court next week so I am trying to figure out what will happen if I haven't responded by then

The contempt and discovery motions are two separate matters. It's no defense to a discovery motion that you've got a contempt going against the other side.

Discovery on financial info makes sense if you are seeking to modify support. Of course, you can do your own discovery request and ask the same sorts of questions and request production of the same sorts of docs, so do that.

Better respond to the discovery before the hearing with all of the financial documents you've got and with it send a response to the discovery request explaining what you are producing and, if not everything they are asking, why you cannot provide it all. Verfiy the response as well. This might avoid an order to compel and you might also get a break on the request for fees (judges don't have to award everything asked for in a motion to compel, and he/she might make a modest order for fees, like a few hundred bucks if you get the financial docs to the other side BEFORE the hearing).

Your contempt motion is just totally separate. She might be arraigned on the date of the hearing and the case will be set for further proceedings after that. That's about all I can tell you.

The contempt and discovery motions are two separate matters. It's no defense to a discovery motion that you've got a contempt going against the other side.

Discovery on financial info makes sense if you are seeking to modify support.


The discovery also include info asking about witnesses I may bring and a description of each date I was denied visitation

YOU opened the door on the financial info by asking for a modification of CS. If you hadn't done that, they may not have been able to ask for financial info. But as soon as you did, you opened that door and could not have ignored the discovery.

As soon as you found out your wife has an attorney, you should have gotten one of your own. Going pro se against an attorney means you are starting with two strikes against you.

YOU opened the door on the financial info by asking for a modification of CS. If you hadn't done that, they may not have been able to ask for financial info. But as soon as you did, you opened that door and could not have ignored the discovery.

As soon as you found out your wife has an attorney, you should have gotten one of your own. Going pro se against an attorney means you are starting with two strikes against you.

She is not my wife, we were never married, and we were not together when the child was born.

I went pro se because that's how the case started when she filed for custody. I did not know she would get a lawyer. I cannot afford a lawyer.

One of thee CS issues is that I am having economic hardship, also, if I am now paying CS for another child can they modify my child support to include that CS in this calculation?

>TWELVE Threads Merged<
They are all on the SAME issue so please don't continue to open new threads and stick to this one.

Doesn't matter whether its your ex wife or a one night stand. The fact is that you opened the door by asking for modification of CS.

If you are paying CS for more than one child, they may take that into account when figuring your CS.

But you can't afford NOT to have an attorney. The possibility of losing when you go pro se against an attorney is too high.

Heads up to everyone! Unless you read through this entire thread (some 54 posts) you cannot figure out the background, which is needed to have an opinion.

Personally - I glazed over.

The question posted has nothing to do with the question on page one, which is why I don't understand why the moderator merged them.

Here's why: "TWELVE Threads Merged<
They are all on the SAME issue so please don't continue to open new threads and stick to this one."

the question posted has nothing to do with the question on page one, which is why i dont understand why the moderator merged them.

Unless it's a brand new case with a brand new woman and a brand new child, all of your threads are related and that's why they got merged.

OK, thanks for the clarification.

Well, I received a letter from court granted my ex motion to compel. It said I had to respond to the it within 5 days. I submitted it on last day. It also said the request for my to pay my ex's atty fees will be assessed at a future time, which I guess will be at the hearing. What is the likelihood that I will still have to pay my ex's atty fees now that Ive given information?

Heads up to everyone! Unless you read through this entire thread (some 54 posts) you cannot figure out the background, which is needed to have an opinion.

Personally - I glazed over.

here is the background. Mother filed for custody in 2007. 19 mos later she got primary custody and we got joing legal. Since then, its my belief she denied me visitation at least 3 times. I also felt that CS should be lowered due to economic hardship so I filed a show cause against her as well as a modificaiton of support. Hearing was set for early March. We both have always represented ourselves but this time she has a family law atty. Lawyer filed discovery and I didnt respond. Lawyer filed discovery for mostly financial info and asked for a continuance. Case was continued to next week so we go to court in a few days. I didnt respond by deadline so laywer filed MTC. Just recently I got an order from court ordering me to produce the documents. I just submitted them on the last day of the deadline to the lawyer.

I just want to know am I out of the clear of having to pay ex fees since i gave them some of the info?

And thanks, I do appreciate all the help I have gotten so far. this is a great site.

No, you're probably not. You probably have to pay the attorney's fees and you cost yourself even more dough by dragging it out. Every time her attorney had to file another piece of paper because you didn't act, you just took more money out of your own pocket.

I'm also curious as to how it's "your belief" that she denied you visitation. It's not religion; there's no room for belief. Either she denied you or she didn't.

I'm also curious as to how it's "your belief" that she denied you visitation. It's not religion; there's no room for belief. Either she denied you or she didn't.

Because my ex denies it. On the first occassioin, I believe she was home but refused to answer the door. I saw her car. I knocked for a long time. After that, I called th police. When the police came she finally came out. It was 45 min before I got my child. The police didn't take a report. My ex didn't even stick around to talk to the police. She just gave me the child and left.

The next occasion was a dinner time visit for 2 hours. She didn't show. She claims I told her wasn't coming. I told her I was going to be out of town, but not on that date.

The third occasion was also a 2 hr visit. She claims it was her day because it was her holiday.

I believe she intentionally denied me visitation.

Welcome to Divorce 101. Your wife is the bitter ex. My husband went through this with his ex-wife more times than he has fingers and toes. You're not the first and you're not going to be the last.

And it's still not a "belief." Either she did deny you visitation or she did not deny you visitation. There's no gray area; it's black-and-white.

I filed because I believed she denied me visitation. The lawyer says the first incident doesn't count because I did get visitation although it was late. She also said I misinterpreted the court order because it was my ex's visit due to the holiday. For the record the ex is not my wife. We were never married.

Judy, what do you mean by stretching the truth. In this case she did deny me visitation

I am in this alone and the only help I have is my girlfriend. My ex has a lawyer so I need all the help I can get. My ex won't communicate with me on this and I tried getting mygirlfriend to talk to her but she won't budge. What do I do. I can't afford to pay lawyer fees

I filed because I believed she denied me visitation. The lawyer says the first incident doesnt count because I did get visitation although it was late. She also said I misinterpreted the court order because it was my ex's visit due to the holiday. for the record the ex is not my wife. We were never married.

Judy, what do you mean by stretching the truth. In this case she did deny me visitation

I am in this alone and the only help i have is my girlfriend. My ex has a lawyer so I need all the help I can get. My ex wont communicate with me on this and I tried getting mygirlfriend to talk to her but she wont budge. what do I do. I can't afford to pay lawyer fees


If you don't have an Attorney I have no idea who told you that the first incident "doesn't count." Her Lawyer told you that? And you believed him/her?

Stretching the truth means one minute you "believe" she denied you visitation; the next minute she "did" deny you visitation.

I am not unsympathetic to your plight. I do see some 165 postings on this same scenario. You need an Attorney. I don't know what you are hoping someone here will tell you but apparently it hasn't been said so far.

What is it you are looking to find out?

And it's still not a "belief." Either she did deny you visitation or she did not deny you visitation. There's no gray area; it's black-and-white.

To expand on this you need to fully understand the visitation provisions in your divorce agreement. For example, if the provision states that you get the child on alternative weekends and Wednesday nights, and she does not hand over the child then, then she is clearly violating the order. But if the order says you get 2 hour visits 3 days a week, then you are going to have show she was clearly aware that you were coming for your visit and she still didn't hand the child over. Based on what you have told us so far, that's not going to be easy. And 3 times over a period of months is not going to impress a court. Why didn't you insist on the police making a report, by the way? That would certainly help your case.

If you don't have an Attorney I have no idea who told you that the first incident "doesn't count." Her Lawyer told you that? And you believed him/her?

Stretching the truth means one minute you "believe" she denied you visitation; the next minute she "did" deny you visitation.

I am not unsympathetic to your plight. I do see some 165 postings on this same scenario. You need an Attorney. I don't know what you are hoping someone here will tell you but apparently it hasn't been said so far.

What is it you are looking to find out?

Ok, well this was on a day I was to pick up for a weekend visit. I had my girlfriend. I knocked and knocked. It was for about 20 min. I decided to call the police. When I came back, my ex was outside with the child. My ex said she came out earlier and saw me in the car and waived, but I drove off. I don't recall seeing her. My girlfriend did say she saw me but apparently I didn't hear her. When I showed up with the police, she just gave me the child and left and didn't stick around to dicsuss the matter. In that case. I believed she denied me visitation. Her lawyer claims since I got that visit, I was not denied visitation.

In the second. I told her I would not be able to visit because I had to be out of town for 3 weeks. She assumed this was one of the days and did not show up. In that incident, lawyer is saying it was miscommunication and that they would offer makeup time, but I want her found in contempt.

The third. I had a visit on a day she says was her holiday and that her holiday time comes before the standar time if they occur on the same day, meaning, I wouldn't get visitaiton because holiday time comes first. In my opinion, I was supposed to get that visit regardless of her holiday time. In this situation, the lawyer said my ex holiday time bumps my regular time.

To expand on this you need to fully understand the visitation provisions in your divorce agreement. For example, if the provision states that you get the child on alternative weekends and Wednesday nights, and she does not hand over the child then, then she is clearly violating the order. But if the order says you get 2 hour visits 3 days a week, then you are going to have show she was clearly aware that you were coming for your visit and she still didn't hand the child over. Based on what you have told us so far, that's not going to be easy. And 3 times over a period of months is not going to impress a court. Why didn't you insist on the police making a report, btw? That would certainly help your case.

These three incidents occurred between May and December 2008. The first one occurred under a temp order with only EOW. I did file contempt for that, but it went no where. My ex claimed she didn't hear me knocking on the door so that's why she was late. I also brought it up in court at our custody trial, and the judge gave it no attention either. The second one occurred after custody trial in sept. The order had not yet been signed because I filed an exception to revise the schedule. I was having trouble meeting the Wednesday 2 hour visit. As far as the third, the lawyer is proposing to revise the order only to make the visitation schedule more clear so there is no confusion. While I agree there may have been confusion with the holiday occurring on my visitation time, I am certain ex is guilty of the other two incidents.

Can't she be found in contempt even if I got visitation on that day? How can I argue those in trial. Also, will I get to question the ex or can she choose not to testify since she has a lawyer?

Can't she be found in contempt even if I got visitation on that day? How can I argue those in trial. Also, will I get to question the ex or can she choose not to testify since she has a lawyer?

Ok, these three incidents occurred during a 6 month period. How many successful visitations did you have during that time? If these 3 incidents accounted for less than 10-20% of your visits, the judge is not likely to be happy with you. Frankly, given your explanation in your last two posts, if I were the judge I would say to the both of you to grow up and stop bothering the court with such trivialities. Work it out between yourselves.

As we have said before, if you go pro se against an attorney, you start with two strikes against you. Family court, while more informal, still has some rules. There is generally less of lawyers questioning witnesses as there is of the judge questioning witnessing. And, if you think you are going to harass your ex with a cross examination, forget it. Her lawyer and the judge won't permit it.

Ok, these three incidents occurred during a 6 month period. How many successful visitations did you have during that time? If these 3 incidents accounted for less than 10-20% of your visits, the judge is not likely to be happy with you. Frankly, given your explanation in your last two posts, if I were the judge I would say to the both of you to grow up and stop bothering the court with such trivialities. Work it out between yourselves.

As we have said before, if you go pro se against an attorney, you start with two strikes against you. Family court, while more informal, still has some rules. There is generally less of lawyers questioning witnesses as there is of the judge questioning witnessing. And, if you think you are going to harass your ex with a cross examination, forget it. Her lawyer and the judge won't permit it.

I really appreciate your input here.

Other than a few harsh exchange of words, there have never been any incidents with visiting. She is usually on time, and the only other missed visits were the ones I didn't show up for.

But can she choose not to speak at all? I just have some simple questions

Ok, well this was on a day I was to pick up for a weekend visit. I had my gf. I knocked and knocked. It was for about 20 min. I decided to call the police. when I came back, my ex was outside with the child. My ex said she came out earlier and saw me in the car and waived, but I drove off. I dont recall seeing her. My gf did say she saw me but apparently I didnt hear her. When I showed up with the police, she just gave me the child and left and didnt stick around to dicsuss the matter. In that case. I believed she denied me visitation. her lawyer claims since I got that visit, I was not denied visitation.
Wow, a whole 20 minutes? Try waiting and hour or 2, calling the police, being told they can't help you and then having your ex show up whenever she feels like it - that's a pain in the neck. Your 20 minute wait isn't breaking my heart. Why didn't you try calling her if she didn't answer the door?


In the second. I told her I would not be able to visit because I had to be otu of town for 3 weeks. She assumed this was one of the days and did not show up. In that incident, lawyer is saying it was miscommunication and that they would offer makeup time, but I want her found in contempt.
And the truth comes out. You're not worried about lost time with your kid(s); you want your ex to be punished.


The third. I had a visit on a day she says was her holiday and that her holiday time comes before the standar time if they occur on the same day, meaning, I wouldnt get visitaiton becuase holiday time comes first. In my opinion, i was supposed to get that visit regardless of her holiday time. In this situation, the lawyer said my ex holiday time bumps my regular time.
Sorry, unless your custodial agreement stated otherwise, holiday time takes precedence over scheduled visitation. Just because it's "your opinion" that you should have had visitation at that time doesn't mean you should have gotten it.

Quite frankly, I'm beginning to see how you got yourself into such a mess in the first place. You seem to think you get to make the rules in the courthouse; you don't. You want visitation that hasn't been granted, you want your ex found in contempt when she's clearly not, you don't want to pay attorney's fees that she incurred because of your actions... it's another case of "poor me, it's all their fault." Sorry, I'm not buying a single word of it.

But can she choose not to speak at all? I just have some simple questions

This is not a criminal trial so I don't think 5th amendment rights apply. You can present the judge with your questions and the judge will ask for answers or not depending on what the judge feels is relevant.

Wow, a whole 20 minutes? Try waiting and hour or 2, calling the police, being told they can't help you and then having your ex show up whenever she feels like it - that's a pain in the neck. Your 20 minute wait isn't breaking my heart. Why didn't you try calling her if she didn't answer the door?[QUOTE]





And the truth comes out. You're not worried about lost time with your kid(s); you want your ex to be punished.

I just want her to follow the order



Sorry, unless your custodial agreement stated otherwise, holiday time takes precedence over scheduled visitation. Just because it's "your opinion" that you should have had visitation at that time doesn't mean you should have gotten it.



Quite frankly, I'm beginning to see how you got yourself into such a mess in the first place. You seem to think you get to make the rules in the courthouse; you don't. You want visitation that hasn't been granted, you want your ex found in contempt when she's clearly not, you don't want to pay attorney's fees that she incurred because of your actions... it's another case of "poor me, it's all their fault." Sorry, I'm not buying a single word of it.


Well when It takes me 45 min each way, 20 min is a lot, not to mention is longer in traffic. There is nothing in the order about holiday time taking precedence over the scheduled visitation. They should have clarified that and may I wouldn't have included it.

Well what about the 2nd incident. I did call her. She didn't answer. Although the order was not signed, I still should have got my visitation. If they are going to make me pay child support for the months Ithere was no signed order, then I should get to have a wed visit although the order wasn't signed.


I do believe I am the better parent and that I should be the custodial parent

I do believe I am the better parent and that I should be the custodial parent

Frankly, I have seen no evidence of that. But then its impossible for us to know the whole story.

It seems to me that 3 visitation problems in 6 months is not a lot nor is it going to impress a judge. I think it just means that you need to coordinate better. Give a call the day before to confirm what time you will be there. Call when you are on your way with an estimated ETA. Set up a shared calendar on someplace like Yahoo or GMail where you can list visit dates and other activities so you have a written record that any of you can consult.

[QUOTE=msir;1669528 I do believe I am the better parent and that I should be the custodial parent[/QUOTE]


I do believe you are fixated on this - it does not reflect well on you.

I am, quite frankly, on overload with you and your questions.

And I agree with "This" - you are only seeking revenge. It's apparent to those of us on AMHD - it will be apparent to the Judge.

If you don't have money to retain an Attorney to fight for your kids you don't have money to support them if/when you have custody.

I just want her to follow the order
And she has been. As Scott pointed out, only 3 incidents in a 6 month period means nothing. You're trying to play a martyr and you're not, it's as simple as that.


Well when It takes me 45 min each way, 20 min is a lot, not to mention is longer in traffic. there is nothing in the order about holiday time taking precedence over the scheduled visitation. They should have clarified that and may I wouldnt have included it.
Try driving an hour and half one way, like I do every other weekend. Your sob story is wasted here. And $20 says you didn't read through the order completely; I have yet to see a custodial order NOT address holidays.


Well what about the 2nd incident. I did call her. She didnt answer. Although the order was not signed, I still should have got my visitation. If they are going to make me pay child support for the months Ithere was no signed order, then i should get to have a wed visit although the order wasnt signed.
You clearly don't understand child support. Just because there "was no signed order" doesn't mean you don't have to pay support. Child support isn't to buy you visitation; it's to support the child.



I do believe I am the better parent and that I should be the custodial parent
Then get a good attorney and file for placement change.

Frankly, I have seen no evidence of that. But then its impossible for us to know the whole story.

It seems to me that 3 visitation problems in 6 months is not a lot nor is it going to impress a judge. I think it just means that you need to coordinate better. Give a call the day before to confirm what time you will be there. Call when you are on your way with an estimated ETA. Set up a shared calendar on someplace like Yahoo or GMail where you can list visit dates and other activities so you have a written record that any of you can consult.

She will not communicate with me via email. She says its too much back and forth in one day and that also she hates that my girlfriend writes the email. I don't know how she knows, but apparently she does. I don't like calling her because she is rude on the phone.

I did tell you the whole story. We were together for two years. During our breakup, she got pregnant. I didn't believe thechild was mine but a DNA confirmed. I moved on and she didn't, she is bitter. She tried to bash me for not being in my other child's life. I eventually just gave up on trying to get full custody. We got a temp order in early Jan 2008 and a custody order in sept 2008. That order wasn't signed till late October, but we got it modified because I filed and exception. That led to me getting his with an additional 3k in back child support. I pay over 700 in CS. I am having financial hardship and I am trying to get it lowered. That led to lawyer filing a discovery for finanical info. We go to court next week. That's where we are now. What else would you like to know

She will not communicate with me via email. She says its too much back and forth in one day and that also she hates that my girlfriend writes the email. I dont know how she knows, but apparently she does. I dont like calling her because she is rude on the phone.

I did tell you the whole story. We were together for two years. during our breakup, she got pregnant. I didnt believe thechild was mine but a DNA confirmed. I moved on and she didnt, she is bitter. She tried to bash me for not being in my other childs life. I eventually just gave up on trying to get full custody. We got a temp order in early Jan 2008 and a custody order in sept 2008. that order wasnt signed till late october, but we got it modified because I filed and exception. That led to me getting his with an additional 3k in back child support. I pay over 700 in CS. I am having financial hardship and I am trying to get it lowered. that led to lawyer filing a discovery for finanical info. We go to court next week. thats where we are now. What else would you like to know

I'd love to know why you're making such a fuss over one child when you have no relationship with the other.

She will not communicate with me via email. She says its too much back and forth in one day and that also she hates that my girlfriend writes the email. I dont know how she knows, but apparently she does. I dont like calling her because she is rude on the phone.

I did tell you the whole story. We were together for two years. during our breakup, she got pregnant. I didnt believe thechild was mine but a DNA confirmed. I moved on and she didnt, she is bitter. She tried to bash me for not being in my other childs life. I eventually just gave up on trying to get full custody. We got a temp order in early Jan 2008 and a custody order in sept 2008. that order wasnt signed till late october, but we got it modified because I filed and exception. That led to me getting his with an additional 3k in back child support. I pay over 700 in CS. I am having financial hardship and I am trying to get it lowered. that led to lawyer filing a discovery for finanical info. We go to court next week. thats where we are now. What else would you like to know


This only gets better and better. Aside from what everyone else has said: you broke up, she got pregnant DURING the breakup, it's your child. That's very difficult to do. You either are having sex or you are not.

SHE'S BITTER?

No, I have no questions. If I did, though, I'm sure you would have answers.

I take that back - I do have a question. Why aren't you in your other child's life?

Judy, you copycat ;)

Also, I'd like to know how your ex "tried" to bash you for not being in your other child's life... doesn't seem like a very hard thing to do. Does this fall into the same category as "believing" you were denied visitation?

I have about 20 comments I could make right now, but I'm going to refrain because I like not being banned :)

My other child's mother would not let me see the child, but filed for state assistance and now I'm over 30k in back support. I tried to fight that but gave up. My ex didn't bash me. She told me she found out "the truth" and called me a deadbeat. I am not sure what she measn about the truth, but I did try to see my child. In any case, it has no weight on what's going on with my younger child. She tried to bring it up at trial and that's how she found out about the back child support. She said to the judge I lied to her the entire time about my other child but I didn't know what she was talking about. I am still working on issues with the other child but she's in another state and its expensive to do.

No, trying to see your child would mean you went to court and fought for visitation. You apparently didn't do that. If you had gotten a visitation order and the mother ignored it, it was your job to file for contempt. It's no one's fault but your own.

Your whole story is very tiring. Everyone else is wrong, you're always the victim... I feel bad for your kids.

My other childs mother would not let me see the child, but filed for state assistance and now I'm over 30k in back support. I tried to fight that but gave up. My ex didnt bash me. She told me she found out "the truth" and called me a deadbeat. I am not sure what she measn about the truth, but I did try to see my child. In any case, it has no weight on whats going on with my younger child. She tried to bring it up at trial and thats how she found out about teh back child support. She said to the judge i lied to her the entire time about my other child but I didnt know what she was talking about. I am still working on issues with the other child but shes in another state and its expensive to do.



Maybe this doesn't matter to you but "abandonment" of child #1 is going to matter to the Court.

Gee, the mother of the child you never supported called you a deadbeat? Go figure.

Maybe this doesn't matter to you but "abandonment" of child #1 is going to matter to the Court.

Gee, the mother of the child you never supported called you a deadbeat? Go figure.

No, she "tried" to call him a deadbeat... perhaps she has stutter? :D

Maybe this doesn't matter to you but "abandonment" of child #1 is going to matter to the Court.

Gee, the mother of the child you never supported called you a deadbeat? Go figure.

Just to clear things up, No, the mother of child #2 called me a deadbeat when she found out about the back CS for child #1. I told her I was paying. I stopped when she changed jurisdiction and moved to another state and filed for state assistance because the home state said they no longer had jurisdiction. So I had no where to pay. Then I get the notice in the mail. Anyhow, this was all heard in the first trial. I don't think it will matter.

Sooo... there was a custodial agreement in place for the first child, you were paying support, she moved without telling you and you did nothing? You don't think it will matter that you have no contact with your first child, but think you're "the better parent" to the second child? What planet are you on??

Again, you seem to think you get to make the rules in the courthouse. Wrong, wrong and wrong. Your ideas about life and children are very crooked and I'm sorry that these women have to go through this with you.

No, she "tried" to call him a deadbeat....perhaps she has stutter? :D



Maybe that's her belief - like in, "I believe she is withholding the child."

Well, I believe that what I'm trying to say is that the OP doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of getting his kid...

I think.

Well, I believe that what I'm trying to say is that the OP doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of getting his kid....

I think.



And I believe that this thread will go on and on and on and eventually only you and I will be left standing, "talking" to each other.

I believe I'll have another glass of wine and go to bed.

Well, I believe that what I'm trying to say is that the OP doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of getting his kid....

I think.

Well, I was told that I can eventually get 50/50 time and the mother would have to pay me child support because she makes more than me

Well, I was told that I can eventually get 50/50 time and the mother would have to pay me child support because she makes more than me

And who told you this? Is it the infamous "lawyer" that you have posted about before?

Do you have a steady job? How long have you lived at your current residence? Do you have a criminal record? I'm only asking because the court takes these things into consideration.

And once again, your true colors are showing. You almost had a good thing going until you went and posted, "..the mother would have to pay me child support." Absolutely devastating for that poor child.

Support is paid to the PRIMARY custodial parent. If there is not primary (like in a 50/50) then neither pays support.

Support is paid to the PRIMARY custodial parent. If there is not primary (like in a 50/50) then neither pays support.

You never know, Scott. Apparently it's his "belief" that he'd get support, just like his "belief" he was denied visitation, his "belief" that he's the better parent... I could go on, but I won't.

And who told you this? Is it the infamous "lawyer" that you have posted about before?

Do you have a steady job? How long have you lived at your current residence? Do you have a criminal record? I'm only asking because the court takes these things into consideration.

And once again, your true colors are showing. You almost had a good thing going until you went and posted, "..the mother would have to pay me child support." Absolutely devastating for that poor child.

I have no criminal record I am good guy, former military, divorced once. I excercisse my visitation to the fullest, except when I am late and the mother refuses to wait. That leads me t another question. I have been late several times due to congestion. I tried to ask the judge to let us meet half way, but he ordered the pickup spot to be near the mothers hous. Since we are going back to caourt also to address mothers motion for modification of visitation, can I ask she meet me half way?

Also, mom and I got into it and she said I didn't fully comply with the compel motin cause I didn't give my disability income, and I didn't give other information, such as my account of what happened on the dates in question. I also didn't give bank statements, work history, a lot of irrelevant stuff. I only gave them some information under production of documents. I didn't answer any of the interrogetories, although some of the answers, such as my salary, is shown on the paystub. Can a judge hold that against me and still make me pay for ex fees.


You never know, Scott. Apparently it's his "belief" that he'd get support, just like his "belief" he was denied visitation, his "belief" that he's the better parent....I could go on, but I won't.

My states CS is based on income share. Mom makes a about 25 k more than me. In a shared custody situation, where I have over 130 nights a year, she would have to pay me child support, even if she is deemed the primary "residential parent"