My 17-year old son has a 15-year old female friend with whom he spends a great deal of time. Her mother would not allow her to go to a rave downtown on the weekend, believing she is too young. Her consequence for going would be a lengthy grounding. When at our house, I explained to both my son and his friend that she was not allowed to go, and that I trusted that they would make the right choices. When I spoke with them on a friend's cell phone around 8:00 pm, and they assured me that they were going to a party close by, and were not going to the rave. When they called at 1:00 am, they again said they were at a party close by, were going to stay at a friends house overnight, and had not gone to a rave. They called at 9:30 am the next morning wanting a ride from a local transit terminal.

The friend's mom has found out that they actually did go to the rave, using money given to them by another friend's mom who had been told that it was OK for my son's female friend to go. Neither my son nor his friend had enough money of their own to go downtown, a deliberate move on the part of both myself and her mom. They had been downtown all night, returning around 8:00 am to an in-town transit terminal.

What do I say to my son? His friend's mom has grounded her, and I don't know if they've been speaking with one another yet. He's lied to us about where he's been and other important matters on previous occasions, and always denies, denies, even when faced with what I see as incontravertable evidence. To complicate matters, he has been suffering from depression, and I'm concerned that if I push him on this, he may go the self-harm route in retaliation. I need to say something to him, but what?

First what in god's name is a 17 and a 15 year old doing staying out all night, what is in your all's mind. I was getting upset when I heard the 1 am call thinking they should have been home by 1 am.

Of course you ground him, and if he needs medical help for depression get him medical help. But you don't let him get by with not obeying you.

:confused:
First what in god's name is a 17 and a 15 year old doing staying out all night, what is in your all's mind. I was getting upset when I heard the 1 am call thinking they should have been home by 1 am.

Of course you ground him, and if he needs medical help for depression get him medical help. but you don't let him get by with not obeying you.


The kid is 17! That's legally an adult in most states, so what is all this crap about being home by 1 am?
Did you know that in Spain children are riding their bikes in the streets and playing after midnight? When I was there at 15 I could walk into a bar and drink anything I wanted (so it wasn't a big deal). Now I know we're not in Spain, but the point is this...
These things are not problems there... In fact they are perfectly normal, have been for quite some time and spanish kids don't have I'll relationships with their parents over this piddly stuff. In fact, the love, family and friendship bonds are quite greater than they are in the US.

So what does this mean, well obviously the real downfall of our society is the Christian Church itself (and I don't mean it's God's fault). You people let yourselves be brainwashed by some boob human that stands at the pulpit telling you how to live your lives, pushing his morals and interpreting the Bible to you as he sees fit. Well NO you're not right Fr_Chuck!! :mad:

:oworriedmom271, just love your kid!!! Love him no matter what!!! You won't need to make him obey you... Just show him love, respect his decisions and he will want to respect yours!... You can also Google the word "PLUR" for some more answers on rave culture. :D

First what in god's name is a 17 and a 15 year old doing staying out all night, what is in your all's mind. I was getting upset when I heard the 1 am call thinking they should have been home by 1 am.

Of course you ground him, and if he needs medical help for depression get him medical help. but you don't let him get by with not obeying you.

Fr. Chuck, I appreciate your perspective, however, it didn't answer my concern at the time I posted the question. I was not perturbed about his being out at 1:00 am or staying overnight with a friend, nor will I ever be as long as I know where he is, and that he's safe. As jxaxmxixn points out in today's response, at 17 he is nearly an adult, and while he is not yet legally one in my jurisdiction, he will be soon and needs to get used to making adult decisions and taking the consequences of those decisions. My major concern, as is clear from the title "17-year old son lies... " was that he mislead us about his whereabouts and plans, and took a 15-year old friend to a place her mom had clearly said she wasn't allowed to go. To some extent, most teens lie on occasion to keep their parents from spoiling their fun, but this was not the first, nor the last time, he has told me a lie that allowed him to do something that could have endangered him and/or a friend. I was looking for some help in dealing with the issue of chronic lying and endangering himself and others, not on how to handle a single occasion of disobeying curfew.

The "ground him" consequence was used, not as punishment for disobeying curfew, but for not being truthful. As a Christian, I believe it's much more important to teach my children accountability and the importance of being honest with me than to expect their total obedience. Remember that Christ as a child didn't strictly "obey" his parents when he stayed behind in Jerusalem to listen to the teachers and preach.

Incidentally, well before my original post we got professional help and a medication plan for my son's depression though, in the end, it's his choice as to whether he follows that plan.

Okay, I was a little harsh sounding in some of my last post and I'm sorry to the both of you for that... Now let's take a look at reality...
The reality of everything here is that your son has already made his decision. As someone familiar with the rave culture, I'm going to tell you that it can be a LOT of fun, especially for today's american youth who feel opressed. What goes on there, well a whole nights worth of happiness, dancing, hanging out with friends, and loads of water drinking. If you do your research, you'll know the reason your son might not want to tell you the whole truth. It's your responsibility to talk to your son about being responsible at these events. To keep that open communication line going, you're going to have to be a friend and not just a parent. He should feel guilty for lying but not for exploring his world. This might go against some of your beliefs, but if you can allow your son his freedom, and also keep him on track with family life and school, you'll have your son forever!

:confused:


The kid is 17! That's legally an adult in most states, so what is all this crap about being home by 1 am?
Did you know that in Spain children are riding their bikes in the streets and playing after midnight? When I was there at 15 I could walk into a bar and drink anything I wanted (so it wasn't a big deal). Now i know we're not in Spain, but the point is this...
These things are not problems there... In fact they are perfectly normal, have been for quite some time and spanish kids don't have i'll relationships with their parents over this piddly stuff. In fact, the love, family and friendship bonds are quite greater than they are in the US.

So what does this mean, well obviously the real downfall of our society is the Christian Church itself (and i don't mean it's God's fault). You people let your selves be brainwashed by some boob human that stands at the pulpit telling you how to live your lives, pushing his morals and interpreting the Bible to you as he sees fit. Well NO you're not right Fr_Chuck!!! :mad:

:oworriedmom271, just love your kid!!! Love him no matter what!!! You won't need to make him obey you... Just show him love, respect his decisions and he will want to respect yours!... You can also google the word "PLUR" for some more answers on rave culture. :D

Thanks, jxaxmxixn, I did Google PLUR, and found a lot that relates to the old hippie in me. So that part of my kid I celebrate, and I do love him deeply, and often tell him so. Like many teens, when angry at me he'll say he doesn't believe I love him, but just as often he'll say "Love you, mom" before heading out the door, so I'm pretty sure he knows I do, whatever he may say to the contrary.

Just to give you an update on the events of last spring, I ended up grounding my son, not for disobeying curfew, but for not telling the truth about where he was. He and the gal he was with now both have cell phones and while we have struggled with disobedience from them on a lot of other issues, they're getting good at being up-front on their whereabouts.

The sequel is that several weeks after this event, with both moms listening carefully and questioning, we learned they planned to go to another rave. This time the mom of his 15-year-old friend (now 16, and until recently his girlfriend) allowed her to go, and we made arrangements to pick them up at the venue - a little earlier than the time they wanted to leave, but at a time that was acceptable to her mom and me. They were waiting for us when we asked, and the friend's mom and I were both pleased and a little surprised to see how loving and friendly everyone was with one another as they left the club.

I'm still not happy with the rave scene because of the drugs freely available at many of these events, and as recently as a few weeks ago was successful in persuading the two of them to forgo attending one by insisting on giving them a drive home. As you do, I strongly believe that at age 17, a kid needs the freedom to experience life for themselves, as long as what they're doing is legal and doesn't hurt anyone. While their actions that evening could have resulted in harm, I haven't seen any evidence that either of them have taken drugs. My son by and large does not even drink, though I know that many of his friends do.

While I don't agree with your general pronouncement that the Christian Church is the downfall of society, I'm with you in that the "spare the rod, spoil the child" approach simply does not work for my teenager. In the main, a "my way or the highway" attitude has only served to alienate him, so I try to understand the passions in his life like music, though I also make it clear that I can't like all of what he likes, and he needs to respect my right to enjoy the music I like. Overall, respect needs to be mutual, and we're trying to help them understand that there are some rules that must be followed for individual safety and the proper functioning of society, and there are consequences for disobeying those rules. It's an ongoing balancing act, and won't be "fixed" by simply respecting all of his decisions no matter how unwise. Though a really smart kid, at 17 he still needs to know when he's doing something that isn't acceptable. I don't think I'll ever get it totally right, but I keep on trying.

Thanks, jxaxmxixn, I did Google PLUR, and found a lot that relates to the old hippie in me. So that part of my kid I celebrate, and I do love him deeply, and often tell him so. Like many teens, when angry at me he'll say he doesn't believe I love him, but just as often he'll say "Love you, mom" before heading out the door, so I'm pretty sure he knows I do, whatever he may say to the contrary.

Just to give you an update on the events of last spring, I ended up grounding my son, not for disobeying curfew, but for not telling the truth about where he was. He and the gal he was with now both have cell phones and while we have struggled with disobedience from them on a lot of other issues, they're getting good at being up-front on their whereabouts.

The sequel is that several weeks after this event, with both moms listening carefully and questioning, we learned they planned to go to another rave. This time the mom of his 15-year-old friend (now 16, and until recently his girlfriend) allowed her to go, and we made arrangements to pick them up at the venue - a little earlier than the time they wanted to leave, but at a time that was acceptable to her mom and me. They were waiting for us when we asked, and the friend's mom and I were both pleased and a little surprised to see how loving and friendly everyone was with one another as they left the club.

I'm still not happy with the rave scene because of the drugs freely available at many of these events, and as recently as a few weeks ago was successful in persuading the two of them to forgo attending one by insisting on giving them a drive home. As you do, I strongly believe that at age 17, a kid needs the freedom to experience life for themselves, as long as what they're doing is legal and doesn't hurt anyone. While their actions that evening could have resulted in harm, I haven't seen any evidence that either of them have taken drugs. My son by and large does not even drink, though I know that many of his friends do.

While I don't agree with your general pronouncement that the Christian Church is the downfall of society, I'm with you in that the "spare the rod, spoil the child" approach simply does not work for my teenager. In the main, a "my way or the highway" attitude has only served to alienate him, so I try to understand the passions in his life like music, though I also make it clear that I can't like all of what he likes, and he needs to respect my right to enjoy the music I like. Overall, respect needs to be mutual, and we're trying to help them understand that there are some rules that must be followed for individual safety and the proper functioning of society, and there are consequences for disobeying those rules. It's an ongoing balancing act, and won't be "fixed" by simply respecting all of his decisions no matter how unwise. Though a really smart kid, at 17 he still needs to know when he's doing something that isn't acceptable. I don't think I'll ever get it totally right, but I keep on trying.

Well, I'm glad that things seem to be working out all right! And, I didn't mean for you to respect all his decisions, especially if he's still living under your roof of course:).

I am sorry about the whole church thing. You see, I was raised in the church and have a lot of resentment for the burdons that were put around my neck over the years only to find out that a lot of what I was taught wasn't even historically biblical, but the later interpretations of man. A lot of my life was wasted in misery because I thought I was just a "bad person". I'm still trying to pick up the pieces today.

Good luck to you and your son, and have a wonderful life!!