Why do Christians take the Bible so literal? Some parts are absolutely absurd. There was a well-known Baptist, George Hensley, who took the Bible as the word of God. He thought they he would be invulnerable to snake bites and poisions This lunatic was constantly in trouble with the law for endangering the idiots that went ot his church. Having them touch snakes, etc. Let me fast forward to the ending Hensley died of a snake bite

workerbee

Balance is a key factor in any thing we do. When we read the Bible, it is important to read everything within the context of the whole chapter or book. Also, realizing the New Testament is the fulfillment of the old is important to remember. Anyone can take one section out of the Bible and make 'that' their religion or practice.

Why do people believe that they can earn salvation? Why do people believe that unless they do rituals daily, they are in danger of death? Because at some point in their lives, they were taught certain things but not the total picture. The Bible is quite clear if read in context what is parables and what is teaching for daily living, what is needed to receive the free gift of salvation, what is stated as an example of the power we have when we call on the name of Jesus to help us in time of need, what things to avoid, what blessings are available, what we will want to do when we put our trust in Jesus, how to forgive, etc. but we need to know the whole of it, not just the part of it. Those who take one thing and make that their religion have not read all that is said about it.

As humans, we so many times think we have to "do" to be accepted, "work" to be okay with God. If we read the scriptures in full, we know salvation is a free gift to those who desire to ask Jesus into their hearts but that after we do that, we will desire to work to help other people, share the word of God, etc. It is all about balance and knwowledge of the scriptures and the context in which each subject matter is discussed in the Bible.

Sometimes, I believe that we, as human beings, find it easier to be ritualistic in our life, than to really pray and read God's word and get direction for our lives each day from God speaking to our hearts. If we take one thing out of the Bible, we can make that our religion, though it would not be correct. We can be religious in anything. We can be religious about getting up at 5:00 a.m. each morning, or brushing our teeth 7 times a day, or religious about being in a church three times each week without fail but being a spiritual person and spending time with God in prayer and reading the Bible, then going about our day striving to honor Him in all we do and say, I think is where we stay in balance.

But surely you don't believe the world is 6000 years old? Or that Noah's Ark is true? What I am asking is, do you believe all of those stories or like more modern Christians do you know many are just stories not to be taken literally?

workerbee

Men wrote the bible, not God, but they called it the word of God.

I believe that it is without a doubt, the greatest fictional novel ever written.

With that said, I do believe in God, or a Creator, but I can't accept the bible as fact.

I find it hard to understand how anyone could believe that Noah was 600 years old when he gathered two of every species, loaded them on the ark, and floated around for about a year, before running aground. Sorry, that would be an unattainable task for even a 60 year old, much less 10 times that age.

The must important thing to understand is the Bible was written before almost all knowledge! Knowledge drives out ignorance and superstition.

Really, the only hard science at the time was Mathematics, and we see a lot of references to numbers in the Bible, lots of verses verifying that the writers of the Bible thought that numbers had magical properties. Guess they were amazed by Arithmetic and associated it with "God", hence power. :)

Today, those who favor literal interpretation of the Bible which is ignorance are those who attack science, schools and the Constitution...

workerbee, I was raised around people that worshiped with the serpent. I'm 45 and only know 2 people in the history of our community that died from a bite. So while to you or me it may seem crazy, they see it as honoring their God. Who am I to judge them and to get all worked up over it and call them names.
They think we are insane for wasting our time with modern music, computers, t.v.s etc...
They must think we are nuts for ingesting caffiene, tobacco, alcohol and over eating.
Maybe they are ignorant to the ways of today but they are doing what they believe in and I feel like that is their right just as it is mine to be on this computer with music in the back ground while sipping a nice cold beer, googling up ways to lose the extra weight I have gained from overeating.

Why do Christians take the Bible so literal? Some parts are absolutely absurd. There was a well-known Baptist, George Hensley, who took the Bible as the word of God. He thought thay he would be invulnerable to snake bites and poisions This lunatic was constantly in trouble with the law for endangering the idiots that went ot his church. having them touch snakes, etc. Let me fast foward to the ending Hensley died of a snake bite

workerbee

Actually not it is really absurd that people don't believe in God and believe that the bible is his word. And yes the bible is true every word, the parts that are stories are noted as such. And yes, God made some people invulnerable to snake bites when it was needed, and saved people from poisions when it was his will to happen. He has stopped guns from firing for people at times, he has cured people from various levels of death at times, all in his will that we don't fully understand.

When one takes what the bible says as a reason to do silly things, then they are not in God's will, can God save you from snakes and poisions, yep every day he has a need to. But that need is not there when we do it on purpose, since the bible also tells us not to test him.

workerbee, I was raised around people that worshiped with the serpent. I'm 45 and only know 2 people in the history of our community that died from a bite. So while to you or me it may seem crazy, they see it as honoring their God. Who am I to judge them and to get all worked up over it and call them names.
They think we are insane for wasting our time with modern music, computers, t.v.s etc...
They must think we are nuts for ingesting caffiene, tobacco, alcohol and over eating.
Maybe they are ignorant to the ways of today but they are doing what they believe in and I feel like that is their right just as it is mine to be on this computer with music in the back ground while sipping a nice cold beer, googling up ways to lose the extra weight I have gained from overeating.

I loved this post bushg! You bring out a lot of good points and with humor besides!! A sense of humor is something we all need more of.

Fr_chuck, you say he made SOME people invulnerable, how sad for you making excuses for God. The Bible was written by uneducated, hateful, ignorant, homophobic, men that's it next you will tell me that the earth is 6000 years old, what about Noah's ark? Never answered that one

workerbee

I do, by my choice, believe the Bible to be the inspired word of God. My faith in Jesus Christ and having Him be in my life has brought me much strength, knowledge of how to love others, hope for tomorrow and a peace that comes from knowing where, without a doubt, I will spend eternity when I pass on. There has always been and always will be people who believe in the Bible but who have different views of certain scriptures. I know that there have been times I have read a certain scripture but then there has been a time when I needed direction or guidance or peace about a situation and I have prayed in Jesus Name and asked God to help me through His word. I begin to read, not choosing a particular area of the Bible and the answer seem to just be there in that same scripture I have read so many times prior that did not really mean much to me those times. To me, that is part of the miracle of His word. That may not be everyone's experience and I am not saying it should be, just sharing one tiny part of my faith in God and how it blesses my life.

I know some people do not believe that the Bible is anything but, as one stated, "I believe that it is without a doubt, the greatest fictional novel ever written", but there is one thing that always puzzles me and I can't tell exactly workerbee what you believe just by these few posts but I am just saying, if a person chooses not to believe in the Bible, I don't understand the anger that comes with that, especially toward the ones who do.

I enjoy sharing my experiences and my belief but I do not ever want to argue about it. Each of us believe what we do but I think it is always good to share with others, our beliefs, our experiences, whether spiritual in nature or not. We learn as we live and as we share and as we listen. I appreciate your posting of this question. It opens up many areas that can be "debated until the cows come home" :) or it can open up a sincere question and answer sharing time but I doubt the debating will help.

I read a lot lately of how Science is continually proving what has been believed for years by those who believe in God. I think it will continue to do so and it amazes me but does not surprise me, when I read that. I just get really excited when I see Science and God brought together in the same discussion. Thank you for allowing me to express my views and respecting that we all will differ somewhat in our views, if not dramatically, then in degrees.

Why do Christians take the Bible so literal? Some parts are absolutely absurd. There was a well-known Baptist, George Hensley, who took the Bible as the word of God. He thought thay he would be invulnerable to snake bites and poisions This lunatic was constantly in trouble with the law for endangering the idiots that went ot his church. having them touch snakes, etc. Let me fast foward to the ending Hensley died of a snake bite

workerbee

Yes, I do take the Bible literally.

Taken in its entirety, not just the verses that you disagree with, it tells of an all powerful, righteous, perfect and holy being. A God that created us, allows us free will, and though we are not good enough to be in His presence, loves us so much that He sent His only Son to justify us through His death and resurrection. Ahhhh... the JOY in Him, that he would tell us this through His words in the Bible. :D

Why do Christians take the Bible so literal?

Not all Christians take the Bible literally.


Some parts are absolutely absurd.

No. None of the Bible is absurd. It is only absurd to those who don't believe in it or understand it.


There was a well-known Baptist, George Hensley, who took the Bible as the word of God. He thought they he would be invulnerable to snake bites and poisions This lunatic was constantly in trouble with the law for endangering the idiots that went ot his church. Having them touch snakes, etc. Let me fast forward to the ending Hensley died of a snake bite

Workerbee

Throughout the centuries, God has shown His favor on many men and women whom we call the Saints. They indeed were invulnerable to snake bites and poisons and also produced many miracles in the name of God.

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name they shall cast out devils: they shall speak with new tongues. 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they shall drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them: they shall lay their hands upon the sick, and they shall recover.

Sincerely,

De Maria

I do, by my choice, believe the Bible to be the inspired word of God. My faith in Jesus Christ and having Him be in my life has brought me much strength, knowledge of how to love others, hope for tomorrow and a peace that comes from knowing where, without a doubt, I will spend eternity when I pass on. There has always been and always will be people who believe in the Bible but who have different views of certain scriptures. I know that there have been times I have read a certain scripture but then there has been a time when I needed direction or guidance or peace about a situation and I have prayed in Jesus Name and asked God to help me through His word. I begin to read, not choosing a particular area of the Bible and the answer seem to just be there in that same scripture I have read so many times prior that did not really mean much to me those times. To me, that is part of the miracle of His word. That may not be everyone's experience and I am not saying it should be, just sharing one tiny part of my faith in God and how it blesses my life.

I know some people do not believe that the Bible is anything but, as one stated, "I believe that it is without a doubt, the greatest fictional novel ever written", but there is one thing that always puzzles me and I can't tell exactly workerbee what you believe just by these few posts but I am just saying, if a person chooses not to believe in the Bible, I don't understand the anger that comes with that, especially toward the ones who do.

I enjoy sharing my experiences and my belief but I do not ever want to argue about it. Each of us believe what we do but I think it is always good to share with others, our beliefs, our experiences, whether spiritual in nature or not. We learn as we live and as we share and as we listen. I appreciate your posting of this question. It opens up many areas that can be "debated until the cows come home" :) or it can open up a sincere question and answer sharing time but I doubt the debating will help.

I read a lot lately of how Science is continually proving what has been believed for years by those who believe in God. I think it will continue to do so and it amazes me but does not surprise me, when I read that. I just get really excited when I see Science and God brought together in the same discussion. Thank you for allowing me to express my views and respecting that we all will differ somewhat in our views, if not dramatically, then in degrees.


I like your answer as far as being angry I don't care what people believe except when they are closed minded , you know like the fundametalists. Those crazies slow down science and that irrattes me.

To every one else I used to be a Christian but not for a long time and I think that you have made excuses for God. You ignore tha age of the Earth or Naih's ark, the list is a s long as my arm. There were thousands of Gods in the past this one will run it's course and be replaced by something else.

workerbee

Men wrote the bible, not God, but they called it the word of God.

I believe that it is without a doubt, the greatest fictional novel ever written.

With that said, I do believe in God, or a Creator, but I can't accept the bible as fact.

I find it hard to understand how anyone could believe that Noah was 600 years old when he gathered two of every species, loaded them on the ark, and floated around for about a year, before running aground. Sorry, that would be an unattainable task for even a 60 year old, much less 10 times that age.


Well I agree with you that men wrote the Bible but they were inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Noah didn't have to gather the animals when he was 600 years old.. hee hee. Genesis 6:20... they came to him. Now I don't know for sure but I'd be willing to bet that a 600 year old man BEFORE the flood was a bit more energetic then a 600 year old man today. ;)

I personally believe the Bible is the truth and without error.

You certainly should believe what you like but it closes the mind to other possibilites. I just saw a picture in the newspaper of an unknown tribe in Brazil that has been cut off from the world as a plane flew low to take pictures these guys are firing srrows at them. They are in their own world not aware of what an airplane is. I believe the same true of Fundamentalists of any religion, they close thieir minds off to everything. I don't think I am being unfair, I am only speaking about the fundies

workerbee

Actually you are unfair, the fundalmentalist know all about airplanes and often even fly in them. But they are aware of many of the lies of man, and the foolishness of many of the teachings of mankind. They prefer to keep their faith in God. This is no different than when Christianity started, you would be killed for accepting Christ, seemed foolish at the time. The ones I feel sorry for is the ones that put all their faith in man, and close their minds to God.

.... the Bible was written by uneducated, hateful, ignorant, homophobic, men....workerbee

Quite the contrary...

The Bible is not just a book of historical stories. All of the events related in the word are intertwined and each has great meaning in the Bible and is directly related to the Purpose of God concerning mankind not only then but today as well. The Bible does not have to prove science in order to give meaning to man. It accounts for reasons in having faith in our creator and his promise for mankind.

Prophesies that were written in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) came true. How do you account for this? Jesus spoke of the new covenant between God and man in the Greek scriptures (New Testament) and he referred back to the old prophesies and validates their accounts.

Some of the 66 books of the Bible were written by craftsmen, physicians and educators of that time.

There's the book of Luke. Luke was well educated in Greek culture, a physician by profession, a companion of Paul at various times from his second missionary journey to his final imprisonment in Rome, and a loyal friend who remained with the apostle after others had deserted him.

There's the book of Isaiah. Educated and a poet, as well as a friend of the royal court and a great prophet… Isaiah was well suited to write this book.

While some prophets were a little zealous, Isaiah preaching nude and barefoot for three years when God commanded him to, it was through their faith that they had no issues.

In today's society, we place too many barriers to God's word, becoming self-centered and entirely without sacrificing our lifestyles. Yes, it's your choice now but in the end it's HIS choice as to your eternal life.

Hi everyone,

Having read previous posts, I can only say that I'll go along with some of them.
I believe in the good guy( GOD) where there is good there is always bad ( DEVIL).
I live my life by the ten commandments, which do not change what ever way you wish to dress them up, the principle of them remains the same which ever religious belief you choose to follow, they also apply if you have no religion.

You can't go wrong

You should read this book:

Amazon.com: The Year of Living Biblically: One Man's Humble Quest to Follow the Bible as Literally as Possible: A. J. Jacobs: Books (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743291476?ie=UTF8&tag=offsitoftimfe-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0743291476)

And here's an interview with the author:

What Happens When an Agnostic Follows the Bible Literally for One Year? | The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss (http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2007/10/10/what-happens-when-an-agnostic-follows-the-bible-literally-for-one-year/)

For by grace are we save through faith; and that not of your selves; it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

It is as always, best to read the whole chapter to get the full meaning. It is speaking about receiving Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and putting your faith in what He did for us on the cross and by defeating death by rising again on the third day after His crucifixion. Also good reading is John chapter 3 in the New Testament.

I too believe in the Ten Commandments but according to the Bible, without placing our faith and trust in Jesus Christ as Lord and asking Him to forgive our sins and come into our lives, no matter how much we do in terms of good works, we will never have eternal life in Heaven when we pass on. I choose to believe in the Old and New Testament of the Bible with the New Testament being the fulfillment of the Old.

I have to ask friends when we are sharing our beliefs and they believe if they are good people, don't lie, cheat, steal, and give to the poor, etc. how do they know they are just fine? I have to wonder, how many good deeds would one have to do to be good enough to be able to go to Heaven. How could a person ever know when they have been good enough? Would that person ever have peace and be able to KNOW in their hearts that all was well when they die? The truth as I see it is that all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God and the wages of sin is death so what is our provision to have peace and to know God and to know without a doubt that when we die, we can enter the gates of Heaven and not Hell? I believe that provision to be placing our trust in God through his son Jesus Christ and asking Him to be Lord of our lives.

In 1984, I was listening to Charles Colson speak on Television. He was chief counsel to one of the Unites States Presidents. He was named as one of the "Watergate Seven", he pleaded guilty for a crime and served prison time. During part of this time, he felt God dealing with his heart and he asked Jesus to come into his life. He made these following statements:

12 of the most powerful men in the U.S. could not contain a lie for three weeks.

Is God's Word true, did Jesus raise from the dead?

"If 12 of the most powerful men (in the U.S.), could not contain the lie (saw how fallible we were) how could the disciples who had no money, no power, underwent beatings and death?? Never was there a death bed confession that the resurrection wasn't real.

I share this part about Charles Colson only for the reason of showing a man who had great power yet was powerless as he saw his life without Christ. Within ourselves, we cannot earn salvation by actions, only by receiving God's free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ.

I generally only use scripture as I try to share but Mr. Colson raises a valid question and makes a powerful statement.

You should read this book:

Amazon.com: The Year of Living Biblically: One Man's Humble Quest to Follow the Bible as Literally as Possible: A. J. Jacobs: Books (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743291476?ie=UTF8&tag=offsitoftimfe-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0743291476)

And here's an interview with the author:

What Happens When an Agnostic Follows the Bible Literally for One Year? | The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss (http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2007/10/10/what-happens-when-an-agnostic-follows-the-bible-literally-for-one-year/)


Funny, I like the one about his wife retaliating by sitting in all the seats in the house. :D

Maybe he skipped Paul's epistles, especially Galatians.

Funny, I like the one about his wife retaliating by sitting in all the seats in the house. :D

Maybe he skipped Paul's epistles, especially Galatians.

Hey there! I have to agree. I wanted to say to his wife, "Hey, you go girl!" Her response was so humorous. It sounded like he thought she was being pretty creative and found humor in it also!

Goodness!! All so interesting, this world we live in! :)

Funny, I like the one about his wife retaliating by sitting in all the seats in the house. :D

Maybe he skipped Paul's epistles, especially Galatians.

Stoning the adulterer was pretty funny too... :)

I think we are getting off subject. If you take the Bible literally it is wrong. The Bible mentions the Earth having four corners, didn't God know

workerbee

Not when taken into the context of what is being said, the issue of taking it literal is when non believers want to make fun of it and try and use it to hurt the beleivers instead of minding their own business and leaving something they don't believe in alone.

Sorry, workerbee, I guess we did get a little off topic. The book I linked to, however, illustrates that if you take the bible absolutely literally, it's rather silly. No poly cotton blends, no colored clothes, no hair cuts, no sitting where a "dirty" woman has been... it's absurd.

But in a way I agree with Chuck; a lot of effort from non-believers (not on this site specifically) is thrust into making believers question their faith - why? I get it if you've been attacked or targeted; like when someone who is a "good christian" cheats on their spouse, lies on their taxes and has the nerve to tell me I'm going to hell, but short of that, it tends to be a wasted effort.

People who follow the bible will always find a way to excuse the inconsistencies; it's about context or it's a literary device... and sometimes, it is. Sometimes they won't come up with an excuse, they'll just ignore you. But there is almost always a way of justification for their thoughts and behaviors. I guess it bothers you a bit more than it bothers me.

One thing you have to remember - people who really, really, fully believe in god, the bible, whatever, aren't going to have their faith shaken by someone on the Internet. No doubt they've heard the arguments and points before, and they've found a way of reconciling the problem with their faith. So unless you are trying to start a conversation about the literalness of the bible (ie, how they reconcile such-and-such passage), all this thread is, and all it will amount to, is an argument. And THAT just adds to the theist claim that all the non-believers on this site do is "attack" them. Let's not fuel the fire.

Not when taken into the context of what is being said, the issue of taking it literal is when non believers want to make fun of it and try and use it to hurt the beleivers instead of minding thier own business and leaving something they don't beleive in alone.


Fr_

That is the problem. The Word must be rightly divided and not pulled out of context. The apostle Paul says that it is foolishness to them that do not believe and it is spiritually discerned. So, let them laugh, shake their heads, or fists (some really hate the sovereignty of God). Truth will ALWAYS be truth and as my mother always says... the truth always comes out. :)

I think we are getting off subject.

I'm glad you noticed.


If you take the Bible literally it is wrong.

If I may correct that attitude a bit. If you take the Bible out of context, you are wrong.

Its like someone telling you that its raining "cats and dogs". If you interpret that to mean that you will literally see cats and dogs falling from the sky, then you are wrong. Not the person making the statement because he knows that he means its raining "heavily".


The Bible mentions the Earth having four corners, didn't God know

There you go. A perfect example of taking the Bible out of context. The four corners of the earth means the four extremes of the earth, the four directions, East, West, North and South.

So, God did and does know that anyone reading the Bible in good faith will understand this verse correctly, because that is what is meant by anyone who says, "the four corners of the earth".

Sincerely,

De Maria

You know, Jillian, I feel sorry for people who don't know what they are saying. Do you know what the word "condescending" means? You might want to look it up and see if your attitude towards Christians doesn't fit that description.


Sorry, workerbee, I guess we did get a little off topic.

I'm glad you admitted that.


The book I linked to, however, illustrates that if you take the bible absolutely literally, it's rather silly. No poly cotton blends, no colored clothes, no hair cuts, no sitting where a "dirty" woman has been... it's absurd.

Correct. Its kind of strange that anyone had to illustrate that for you. Isn't it obvious that if you take anyone absolutely literally that will lead to absurd results?

Just one example, do you ever "take" your car to work? Obviously, your car takes you, otherwise you'll have one awesome back ache.

So, in reading the Bible, care should be taken not only to understand it in the language into which it is translated, but also to understand the culture and idioms of the people who originally wrote it.


But in a way I agree with Chuck; a lot of effort from non-believers (not on this site specifically) is thrust into making believers question their faith - why?

I don't know, Jillian. You seem that sort to me.


I get it if you've been attacked or targeted; like when someone who is a "good christian" cheats on their spouse, lies on their taxes and has the nerve to tell me I'm going to hell, but short of that, it tends to be a wasted effort.

Have any Christians actually told you that you are going to hell? I doubt it. Its probably more like you've come to the conclusion based on logical inference and your prior knowledge of Christianity.

1. You know that you were raised Christian.
2. You know that Christianity teaches that if you abandon Christ you will go to hell.
3. So, now that you've abandoned Christ, you have that hanging over your head.
4. And since we don't deny it, you claim we are condemning you to hell.

No, it is your own conscience. If you didn't believe it, you wouldn't worry about it so.


People who follow the bible will always find a way to excuse the inconsistencies;

In other words, people who follow the Bible are unreasonable hypocrites.

That is all that you have said. You want to make this sound like a reasonable message but underlying the nice "feel" of it, you have underlying insult and innuendo against any believers.


it's about context or it's a literary device... and sometimes, it is. Sometimes they won't come up with an excuse, they'll just ignore you. But there is almost always a way of justification for their thoughts and behaviors. I guess it bothers you a bit more than it bothers me.

No, I'm pretty sure, from the number of anti-Christian messages you write, that it bothers you just as much as it bothers him.


One thing you have to remember - people who really, really, fully believe in god, the bible, whatever, aren't going to have their faith shaken by someone on the Internet.

Perhaps.


No doubt they've heard the arguments and points before,

Many faithful Christians avoid arguments with non-believers precisely because there is very little that can be said to someone who wishes to hold an illogical conclusion as truth.


and they've found a way of reconciling the problem with their faith.

Problem? No. The one with the problem is the person reading it out of context. You for instance. As for us, we know what it means.


So unless you are trying to start a conversation about the literalness of the bible (ie, how they reconcile such-and-such passage), all this thread is, and all it will amount to, is an argument.

Perhaps. It would be nice if atheists would not resort to insult and innuendo whenever they can't get agreement of their beliefs.


And THAT just adds to the theist claim that all the non-believers on this site do is "attack" them. Let's not fuel the fire.

First, you should set the example. Then give advice. Because this message which you wrote was obviously constructed to fuel the fire. Or if it wasn't, you don't understand the meaning of the words you have written.

Sincerely,

De Maria

I was raised a bible believeing christan. A 'literally' bible believeing christan. And that's what I was. Until I was about 14. Then I started to READ the bible. Lets just say a few years later, I'm a deist. I hate how when you challage christans they get so defensive, its like they know they have to defend there faith. Well defending you're faith is good, right?

Faith in what? God.
Allmighty god.
You're defending allmighty god. Do you realise that? Allmighty-all seeing, everywhere, all knowing, all loving.
Why do you need to defend him? Why doesn't he just come down and talk to everyone?
Oh wait.
That'd mess with there free will. But wait? Dident this God already come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God already come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will?
We've reached a paradox. Thus I am a deist.

I've noticed a pattern Jillianleab says something very smart that the fundies don't really have an answer for so instead they resort to personal attacks instead of sticking to the issue. I guess it's okay to attack someone as long as they aren't a fundie.

I've noticed a pattern Jillianleab says something very smart that the fundies don't really have an answer for so instead they resort to personal attacks instead of sticking to the issue. I guess it's okay to attack someone as long as they aren't a fundie.

She said something very smart? Let me see, she said,


People who follow the bible will always find a way to excuse the inconsistencies;


But there is almost always a way of justification for their thoughts and behaviors.



and they've found a way of reconciling the problem with their faith.


So unless you are trying to start a conversation about the literalness of the bible (ie, how they reconcile such-and-such passage), all this thread is, and all it will amount to, is an argument. And THAT just adds to the theist claim that all the non-believers on this site do is "attack" them. Let's not fuel the fire.

Sounds to me as though she's making an insidious attack on Christians and Christian beliefs, clothing them as a friendly chatter with another nonbeliever.

But if you can show me where she provided any facts whatsoever, and where she said good which wasn't already obvious to anyone with any sense (i.e. absolute literalness leads to absurd results), I'm listening. Or if you can show me where she said anything that wasn't insulting, demeaning or condescending towards believers in the Bible, I'm listening.

Has it even occurred to you or she that Christians don't all take the Bible absolutely literally? In fact, most Christians do not. And has it occurred to you or she that even some nonChristians and atheists take the Bible absolutely literally? That is why they don't understand it. I doubt that either of you has realized that point. Because obviously, you have both taken this thread as another opportunity to attack Christians, when the subject matter of this thread is not completely about Christians, but about anyone "taking the Bible literally."

And so, as I've said before, I've also noticed a pattern. Nonbelievers and antiChristians believe they can say whatever they want about Christians, insult them anyway they want, without repercussion of any sort. And if anyone dares to respond in kind, why they are the trouble makers.

But, I've to make another point. I actually have come to believe that Jillian doesn't know what she is saying. Judging from her response to our reaction to her messages, she seems to think she is the pinnacle of good taste and manners. And that's sad. Because obviously, she'll keep insulting us without realizing she's insulting us. And when we inform her that she's insulting us, she'll keep saying, "Why are you persecuting me?"

Sincerely,

De Maria

I was raised a bible believeing christan. A 'literally' bible believeing christan. And thats what I was. Untill I was about 14. Then I started to READ the bible. Lets just say a few years later, I'm a deist. I hate how when you challage christans they get so defensive, its like they know they have to defend there faith. Well defending you're faith is good, right?

Faith in what? God.
Allmighty god.
You're defending allmighty god. Do you realise that? Allmighty-all seeing, everywhere, all knowing, all loving.
Why do you need to defend him? Why doesn't he just come down and talk to everyone?
Oh wait.
That'd mess with there free will. But wait?! Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will?
We've reached a paradox. Thus I am a deist.

I am glad you question things unlike the fundies. In a few years you will be an Atheist
Like me. The rest of you always say the same taken out of context. I could go into more examples but taken out of context will be the answer. The Bible says many things that are flat out wrong.

ANSWER Taken out of context. You Fundies should not be afraid of questioning things in the Bible.

I am glad you question things unlike the fundies. in a few years you will be an Atheist
like me. The rest of you always say the same taken out of context. I could go into more examples but taken out of context will be the answer. The Bible says many things that are flat out wrong.

ANSWER Taken out of context. You Fundies should not be afraid of questioning things in the Bible.

Not necessarily, I was an atheist and now I'm a devout Catholic.

Sincerely,

De Maria

I was raised a bible believeing christan. A 'literally' bible believeing christan. And thats what I was. Untill I was about 14. Then I started to READ the bible. Lets just say a few years later, I'm a deist. I hate how when you challage christans they get so defensive, its like they know they have to defend there faith. Well defending you're faith is good, right?

Faith in what? God.
Allmighty god.
You're defending allmighty god. Do you realise that? Allmighty-all seeing, everywhere, all knowing, all loving.
Why do you need to defend him? Why doesn't he just come down and talk to everyone?
Oh wait.
That'd mess with there free will. But wait?! Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will?
We've reached a paradox. Thus I am a deist.

If you're just venting, well that's OK. But if you have any particular questions about the Bible, please ask us. I'm sure there are many here besides myself who will attempt to answer your question to your satisfaction.

Sincerely,

De Maria

De Maria,

You were an atheist because you hated god not because of reason there is a big difference. A lot of people claim to be or claim to be former atheist who are really just mad at themselves and at the world. The people who claim to be atheists because they hate god often go back to religion, people who reason there way to it very very rarely go back to religion. From what I understand you weren't an atheist you were mad at what you thought was god plan for you and just a bad person. Old habits die hard..

I was raised a bible believeing christan. A 'literally' bible believeing christan. And thats what I was. Untill I was about 14. Then I started to READ the bible. Lets just say a few years later, I'm a deist. I hate how when you challage christans they get so defensive, its like they know they have to defend there faith. Well defending you're faith is good, right?

Faith in what? God.
Allmighty god.
You're defending allmighty god. Do you realise that? Allmighty-all seeing, everywhere, all knowing, all loving.
Why do you need to defend him? Why doesn't he just come down and talk to everyone?
Oh wait.
That'd mess with there free will. But wait?! Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will?
We've reached a paradox. Thus I am a deist.



Actually you make a good, if repetitive, point. :)

There can be no faith without free will.

I've noticed a pattern Jillianleab says something very smart that the fundies don't really have an answer for so instead they resort to personal attacks instead of sticking to the issue. I guess it's okay to attack someone as long as they aren't a fundie.

It could be worse. When people start making too much sense over in the Christianity forum, the moderator just shuts the thread down.

De Maria,

You were an atheist because you hated god not because of reason there is a big difference. A lot of people claim to be or claim to be former atheist who are really just mad at themselves and at the world. The people who claim to be atheists because they hate god often go back to religion, people who reason there way to it very very rarely go back to religion. From what I understand you weren't an atheist you were mad at what you thought was god plan for you and just a bad person. Old habits die hard..

This is such a key point that is overlooked by so many. Atheism is not a dislike for god, or anger at god, or revenge at god, which is often the only way a theist can imagine anyone rejecting belief in god. Nothing could be further from the truth.

You are so very correct. I used to believe in god, but after weighing the evidence and seriously thinking about all aspects of things, I don't have any choice. I simply have no compelling reason to think a god of any kind exists. It's not anger, hatred, or anything of the sort. Anymore than I am angry at unicorns.

I simply have no compelling reason to think a god of any kind exists. It's not anger, hatred, or anything of the sort. Anymore than I am angry at unicorns.


That is why you post and ask questions on religious threads? ;)

That is why you post and ask questions on religious threads? ;)

Forgive me for intruding, lobrobster...

Participating in religious discussions and asking questions has nothing to do with anger and or hatred. It has to do with curiosity and the sharing of ideas. Sure, I'm speaking for myself here, but I hold no ill-will toward theists in general (though I'm sure some of you who think you know me will disagree. Well, one person in particular, really.). I think the idea of religion and faith is fascinating, and I'm not afraid to admit I've learned a lot on these boards. It hasn't changed my mind about the existence of god, but at least I have a better understanding of things. Isn't that part of the goal? If we understand and respect where the other is coming from, we can get along. We don't have to agree to have a civil discussion.

That's not to say some threads haven't been started with malice and the intent to cause a fight, or that some threads have developed into a fight, but when discussing things which people feel passionately about, that's bound to happen. It happens on the politics board all the time; you don't think those who participate in the more Republican topics but are Democrats "hate" or are "angry" at the Republicans, and that's the only reason they are there... do you?

De Maria,

You were an atheist because you hated god not because of reason there is a big difference. A lot of people claim to be or claim to be former atheist who are really just mad at themselves and at the world. The people who claim to be atheists because they hate god often go back to religion, people who reason there way to it very very rarely go back to religion. From what I understand you weren't an atheist you were mad at what you thought was god plan for you and just a bad person. Old habits die hard..


Now that is insightful More than likely DeMaria was angry at God or he lying outright about being an Atheist. Once an Atheist it is hard to go back to supersitions

workerbee

Another example of the pitiful way in which the atheists on this board use logical fallacies to disrupt and avoid engaging the argument.


De Maria,

You were an atheist because you hated god not because of reason there is a big difference.

Probably both. The fact is, I was as good at defending my atheist beliefs then as I am at defending my Catholic beliefs today.


A lot of people claim to be or claim to be former atheist who are really just mad at themselves and at the world.

But that is beside the point isn't it? This thread is about "taking the Bible literally". Worker bee made the comment that an atheist would not become a Christian. I only offered my example as proof he is wrong.

When I start a thread as to my reasons for formerly being an atheist, I'll be glad to explain my entire life story. Right now however, I see this emphasis on me as a tactic to change the subject in a thread in which you and your confreres have been proven wrong.


The people who claim to be atheists because they hate god often go back to religion, people who reason there way to it very very rarely go back to religion.

Again, start a thread on how many people go back to religion after atheism and provide actual factuall data instead of simple opinions based on nothing else but wishful thinking and I'll be glad to participate.


From what I understand you weren't an atheist you were mad at what you thought was god plan for you and just a bad person. Old habits die hard..

This may come as a shock to you, but just because you think it, doesn't make it so.

Anyway, unless you want me to psycho analyze you, I suggest you GET OFF MY BACK!

Sincerely,

De Maria

Now that is insightful More than likely DeMaria was angry at God or he lying outright about being an Atheist. Once an Atheist it is hard to go back to supersitions

workerbee

So, you are now calling me a liar. And you are characterizing my beliefs as superstitions.
Thanks for providing more proof that the atheists on this board are simply here to deride, attack and insult Christians and their beliefs, It really shows the level of your intellect.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Forgive me for intruding, lobrobster....

Participating in religious discussions and asking questions has nothing to do with anger and or hatred. It has to do with curiosity and the sharing of ideas. Sure, I'm speaking for myself here, but I hold no ill-will toward theists in general (though I'm sure some of you who think you know me will disagree. Well, one person in particular, really.). I think the idea of religion and faith is fascinating, and I'm not afraid to admit I've learned a lot on these boards. It hasn't changed my mind about the existence of god, but at least I have a better understanding of things. Isn't that part of the goal? If we understand and respect where the other is coming from, we can get along. We don't have to agree to have a civil discussion.

That's not to say some threads haven't been started with malice and the intent to cause a fight, or that some threads have developed into a fight, but when discussing things which people feel passionately about, that's bound to happen. It happens on the politics board all the time; you don't think those who participate in the more Republican topics but are Democrats "hate" or are "angry" at the Republicans, and that's the only reason they are there... do you?

I agree Jillian. Good post.

Sincerely,

De Maria

You are right Demaria, I did not mean to call you a liar, I knew a Christian in he past that was not an atheist butwere mad at god and admitted as much. It was unfair of me.
Won't happen again

workerbee

You are right Demaria, i did not mean to call you a liar, I knew a Christian in he past that was not an athiest butwere mad at god and admitted as much. it was unfair of me.
Won't happen again

workerbee

Apology accepted.

Ahhh don't all God based discussions end with the same argument.

My good friend Workerbee back for more, good on you:)

Firstly, there are sooo many erroneous statements in this thread it would take too long to list them.

The argument remains the same for these topics, if you don't believe inGod you do not understand what is being said. All those who do not believe make sense to each other while appear foolish to those who do believe and vice versa.

I do not appreciate some on this thread that make statements regarding the Bible as non-sensical (to them it may very well appear). I, myself, do not take the Bible literally word for word.

Consider if you will Judgement Day. It is narrated in a way that a literal interpretation would see chariots out of the sky accompanied by flames and red skies, or the story of Jesus returning from the dead to save us from sin and reunite us with God. The literal interpretation is that Jesus, in a physical form will make a grand entrance for all to see on Judegemnt Day (which, if taken literally would be the end of the world in which many have tried to calculate the exact date of such an event). To some beleivers this makes sense, to some non-beleivers it is a tall tale to be sure.

Other interpretations of the same story would be a non-literal interpretation. I'll have a go as best I can. To some, myself included, the end of the world is the day I die, judgement day is the day I die, Jesus returning to the world is Jesus returning to MY life. I believe you can look at it in a spiritual sense rather than a literal one that makes more sense to those who are interested enough to look for deeper meaning within the Bible, obviously those who do not believe would not have the urge to look deeper would they?

As for the rest of the arguments, just because you read a passage and think it silly does not make it so,in a different light it would probably make more sense to you than you might even imagine. Like the poster that suggests Noah's Ark is more akin to a children's book than reality (the poster didn't actually use those words but still). It's a comment out of basic understanding of words written mixed with very limited view on spirituality,one may say close-minded foolishness if one were so bold.

Finally, Workerbee, you seem the same as when we last conversed on the subject. Actually, your comments before were a lot moreconvincing than now, whichis not saying all that much to be quite honest. I can assure you the only superstitions that exist in the Bible are the ones you yourself created.

Forgive me for intruding, lobrobster....

Participating in religious discussions and asking questions has nothing to do with anger and or hatred. It has to do with curiosity and the sharing of ideas. Sure, I'm speaking for myself here, but I hold no ill-will toward theists in general (though I'm sure some of you who think you know me will disagree. Well, one person in particular, really.). I think the idea of religion and faith is fascinating, and I'm not afraid to admit I've learned a lot on these boards. It hasn't changed my mind about the existence of god, but at least I have a better understanding of things. Isn't that part of the goal? If we understand and respect where the other is coming from, we can get along. We don't have to agree to have a civil discussion.

That's not to say some threads haven't been started with malice and the intent to cause a fight, or that some threads have developed into a fight, but when discussing things which people feel passionately about, that's bound to happen. It happens on the politics board all the time; you don't think those who participate in the more Republican topics but are Democrats "hate" or are "angry" at the Republicans, and that's the only reason they are there... do you?

You spoke for me better than I could have! :)

I would only add that not everyone (atheist or Christian) comes here simply to espouse their beliefs. Some have legitimate questions about religious questions, such as 'what is the real evidence for evolution?', or 'why can't the earth be only 6000 years old?', etc.

Other questions like, 'How can I better my relationship with God?', I wouldn't dream of trying to answer myself and leave it to other Christians. De Maria actually gave a beautiful answer to a friend of mine who had a question about her faith. I never could have helped her, or provided such an eloquent answer. But there are other questions that people can help with regardless of their religious beliefs.

BMI. I had a headache this morning and now I know why, hope you are feeling well. It's good you don't take the Bible literally, that at least we agree on. There are so many religions to pick and chose from, for me that is truth that all religions are BS

workerbee

Sorry about your headache workerbee, was the previous post too long? Was the information in it not making iteasy to follow? Do you take a long time to read? Perhaps your computer monitor is too bright:)

Might I ask you to explain to me what point there is in posting questions about religion yet not considering what is told to you? I find it fascinating that you and some other non-beleivers are so interested in these conversations yet you have already made up your mind before you ask your question. Whay concern yourself(s) with religious discussion id it is all B.S??

I suspect every non-beleiver who does participate wishes to hear the other side, maybe to gain insight, a quick lesson in spirituality? I doubt many beleivers would join a discussion asking about the atheist way of life, yet a question about Jesus pops up (actually it is posted by you) and everyone comes to take a gander.

Maybe you are trying to find what the proponents of a God speak of, otherwise there has to be a very good explanation because I don't see you often asking questions of lawnmowers just as you don't see me asking a non-beleiver questions about their way of life.

BMI. i had a headache this morning and now i know why, hope you are feeling well. it's good you don't take the Bible literally, that at least we agree on. there are so many religions to pick and chose from, for me that is truth that all religions are BS

All religions are BS?

Again showing your intellect. Your messages have devolved from simulating reasoned arguments to simply being insulting.

I doubt many beleivers would join a discussion asking about the atheist way of life,

This thread...

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/spirituality/atheists-do-not-believe-how-111864.html?highlight=atheist%27s+don%27t+believe+ how%3F

Would disagree with you...

And you even participated in it!

The bible is a piece of literary work open to interpretation and highly subjective. Each one of us could read a section of the bible and get something different out of it based on our real world experiences. I find the statement "the bible says..." to be the biggest joke around. What "the bible says" to you might be different then what it says to me.

I am not talking about the 10 commandments... that is different... Not much interpretation in Thou Shall not Steal.

Hi Jillean, thanks for pointing that out. However, I did not say all, I said not many. Also, my participation in that forum was not in response to the original question but rather to the questions raised from the thread.

The OP on this thread includes her/his opinion in her actual question. What's the point? Tell me about Jesus but I don't believe it anyway.

All religions are BS?

Again showing your intellect. Your messages have devolved from simulating reasoned arguments to simply being insulting.

Serious question... What would YOU call all the other religions that are not your own? If not BS, then wouldn't you at least say (perhaps in a more genteel way), that they are unsubstantiated and untrue?

I am not trying to be argumentative or rude in any way, but I never understood how someone of a particular faith can take such exception to those who are skeptical of all faiths. You know as much as anyone, what it's like not to believe in a particular faith.

Serious question... What would YOU call all the other religions that are not your own?

That depends on which religion you are talking about. I have different opinions about different religions and I think some of them are closer to the truth than others. But I think most of them have some truth. I can't think of any that have none at all, although I suppose there may exist some.


If not BS,

The only time I would say that is in response to anyone insulting my faith.


then wouldn't you at least say (perhaps in a more genteel way), that they are unsubstantiated and untrue?

No. Some religions are very close to the truth. As you know, I'm Catholic. Many of the Eastern Orthodox faiths are very close to the Catholic faith. Lacking only small details to teach the same thing.

Whereas, the Protestant faiths are all based on the Bible. Even though I believe some of their interpretations are in error, I can respect them for their obvious faith in Christ.

The Muslims I also respect for their obvious faith in God.

I have a great deal of respect for Hinduism and the Eastern philosophies. The wisdom they expound is frequently profound.

As far as atheists are concerned, since I was once an atheist, I can understand the logic whereby one arrives at the conclusion that God does not exist. However, I now believe my logic then was in error.

Therefore, I think I have too much wood in my eye to belittle atheists. The only reason that I find myself doing so on this forum is because so many atheists on this forum act as though its open season on Christians.


I am not trying to be argumentative or rude in any way,

No problem. Good question.


but I never understood how someone of a particular faith can take such exception to those who are skeptical of all faiths.

Probably just a lack of respect for humanity in general. If you study Catholicism, you'll see that the Church teaches respect for people of all faiths. That doesn't mean we are taught that they are all correct. For some reason, many people confuse respect with acquiescence. That just means that everybody has the God given freedom to follow their conscience.


You know as much as anyone, what it's like not to believe in a particular faith.

I hope I've explained myself thoroughly above. If I've missed anything, ask me again.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Hi Jillean, thanks for pointing that out. However, I did not say all, I said not many. Also, my participation in that forum was not in response to the original question but rather to the questions raised from the thread.

The OP on this thread includes her/his opinion in her actual question. Whats the point? Tell me about Jesus but I don't beleive it anyway.

If you look through that thread, you'll find many people of faith participated. It ended up being shut down because of a person of faith and a person of no faith, actually. Your reason for participating in that thread doesn't really matter; you participated. But, while we're on it... your first post contained your thoughts as to why a person is an atheist.

Moving on... I too, questioned the purpose of this thread being started; see my post #26 on page three. But the actual question is, "Why do Christians take the bible so literal?" It's not, "Tell me about Jesus" or "Tell me about your religion", it's "Tell me why you hold this book to be the literal truth?" Can't you tell someone about your beliefs without expecting them to accept them? I'm not saying this thread has been full of respect for other's opinions, but we are all entitled to our opinions. It is, after all, an interesting question as to why people take the bible as an absolute literal piece of work, since not all Christians do the same.

Bmi, thanks for your concern, at least you have not lost any scarcasm, very good. What's the point of going into detail you have made up yourmind. I think ignorance and religion go hand in hand , you know like those natives, how they believe in there silly supersitions\much like Christianity. Same thing as far as I am concerned. If you don'ttake the Bible literally you can pick parts you like and discard the rest. Besides I said all I have too.
DeMaria, you spend way too much time being insulted when none was intended. If you want to stay on this forum you might consider growing a thicker skin.

Anyway that's what I think

I'm going to take you re-reading my posts as a compliment, intended or not:P

I participated in defence and my thoughts on atheism are different than writing why atheism is so stupid, like some include in their posts. Re-read workerbee's original question, its much more causing a stir than simply asking a question. I doubt many ask a question hoping for a sincere, informative answer when written like that, like he/she knows the answer beforehand. I am also not intending to make others believe what I do but rather defending my position.

You cannot go around saying you think this is all B.S and be rude about it OR post "facts" that are not factual either. If these "opinions" were posted in another forum they would be met with all kinds of opposition. I don't see the difference here when people make comments that are of this nature.



In response to opinion's. There is a line between your opinions and being offensive to someone's religion. Depicting God as a cartoon with a thunder bolt is not appropriate and very offensive.

Thanks workerbee! I do so enjoy speaking with you.

By your measuring stick not mine You are so insecure aren't you? I asked a question which you answered saying that you do not take the Bible literally. I got it. You don't have to answer again. Thanks

You crazy angry Christians.

workerbee

I am also not intending to make others believe what I do but rather defending my position.

You cannot go around saying you think this is all B.S and be rude about it OR post "facts" that are not factual either. If these "opinions" were posted in another forum they would be met with all kinds of opposition. I don't see the difference here when people make comments that are of this nature. Unfortunately I detect a double standard. Remember this post you made:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/spirituality/atheists-do-not-believe-how-111864-4.html#post560628

If Karma thinks that you can be truly happy without God, than that of course is incorrect, and if offends than so be it. Now c'mon now. I state that one, such as myself, can be happy without a god and you try to state that that is fact that one cannot then we have a problem.

What problem?? Define what happiness is comparable with what I consider it to be. The Bible itself would back the statement made, perhaps you are happy with no belief in God, maybe your not as happy as those that do.

I believe you cannot be truly happy without God, I'm not saying you're an idiot, I'm not making fun of your beleifs, I'm not even saying your not happy. My point is that some here actually try to insult and belittle a belief in God is all. If you sayto me you can only be trully happy not believing in God I would not be offended in the least. If, however, you say that beleifin God is for the weak, then I may take issue with it.

As for the offend comment, perhaps I did not like you at the time:)

But I think most of them have some truth. I can't think of any that have none at all, although I suppose there may exist some.

Are you suggesting there is more than 1 path to salvation? Can Muslims and other religions get to heaven without accepting Christ as their Savior?

I'm going to take you re-reading my posts as a compliment, intended or not:P

I participated in defence and my thoughts on atheism are different than writing why atheism is so stupid, like some include in their posts. Re-read workerbee's original question, its much more causing a stir than simply asking a question. I doubt many ask a question hoping for a sincere, informative answer when written like that, like he/she knows the answer beforehand. I am also not intending to make others believe what I do but rather defending my position.

I agree; there is a difference between posting a question with the intent to seek answers/opinions, and posting a question to start a flame war (again, see my post on page three of this thread).


You cannot go around saying you think this is all B.S and be rude about it OR post "facts" that are not factual either. If these "opinions" were posted in another forum they would be met with all kinds of opposition. I don't see the difference here when people make comments that are of this nature.

True, but sometimes we all mis-speak (mis-type?), or our words are read in a way which was not intended. It's part of the problem with communication through written word; it's difficult to pick up on meanings, sarcasm, etc, whereas is actual conversation you have body language to cue you into the speaker's feelings. The other problem (as demonstrated with your communication with NK) is that what some perceive as rude is not perceived as rude by others. You think there's nothing rude about saying one can't be truly happy without god; I, for one, think that's a very rude thing to say. It's akin to saying you can't be smart if you believe in god. You don't have to defend yourself, but to me, that's rude.


In response to opinion's. There is a line between your opinions and being offensive to someone's religion. Depicting God as a cartoon with a thunder bolt is not appropriate and very offensive.

Again, the example of your communication with NK. And depictions of god as a cartoon character are, believe it or not, seen as humorous to some (even some believers). We have no way of knowing what may or may not offend someone on this site (within reason, of course). But you know, there is something to the saying that if you are looking to be offended, you will find a way to be offended.

Well written Jillian. Even with the above I do believe that the OP was not operating along the fine line between offensive and non.

Well written Jillian. Even with the above I do beleive that the OP was not operating along the fine line between offensive and non.

If only I could give you a greenie... :D

Bmi, thanks for your concern, at least you have not lost any scarcasm, very good. What's the point of going into detail you have made up yourmind. I think ignorance and religion go hand in hand , you knwo like those natives, how they believe in there silly supersitions\much like Christianity. Same thing as far as I am concerned. If you don'ttake the Bible literally you can pick parts you like and discard the rest. Besides i said all i have too.
DeMaria, you spend way too much time being insulted when none was intended. If you want to stay on this forum you might consider growing a thicker skin.

Anyway that's what i think

Don't mind me. If that's the new rule I can adjust. Just remember that you said it. When I tell you why your thoughts are BS, don't start crying foul.

Well written Jillian. ...

Ditto!

Are you suggesting there is more than 1 path to salvation? Can Muslims and other religions get to heaven without accepting Christ as their Savior?

Lob, you and I already discussed this in "For believers only" message #76, 80, 81 and 84.
Here's a link:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/christianity/believers-only-143702-9.html

If you still have questions, start another thread. This thread is about taking the Bible literally. I believe everyone else is trying to get back to the subject at hand.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Lob, you and I already discussed this in "For believers only" message #76, 80, 81 and 84.
Here's a link:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/christianity/believers-only-143702-9.html

If you still have questions, start another thread. This thread is about taking the Bible literally. I believe everyone else is trying to get back to the subject at hand.

Sincerely,

De Maria

No need to re-hash all that. My point was that you yourself know what it means to question certain truths about other people's religion. So it shouldn't come as such a shock to you when someone questions the truth about ALL religions. I'll agree that using terms like 'BS' isn't the most tactful form of expression. But it basically just means they don't buy into any of them, in a similar way that you don't buy into Hinduism.

Why do Christians take the Bible so literal? Some parts are absolutely absurd.
First of all : the percentage of people who take the Bible literal is rather low.
Most Christians see the Bible as a religious guide to life.

If you during your youth have been brainwashed into Christianity, and when there is somewhere in your brain all kinds of religious doubt gnawing around, you can do two things :
1 - Open up your mind, and ask yourself if what you believe is in any way realistic and can be based on reality. If the answer is no, become a non-believer or deist.
2 - Those who fear the thorn of "God", and/or the reaction by the (religious) people around them tend to force themselves into strict religious rules, one of which is taking the Bible literal in the hope that this will stop their queries.
In this second group religion seems mainly based on fear, not on love of and gratitude for the deity.

;)

No need to re-hash all that. My point was that you yourself know what it means to question certain truths about other people's religion. So it shouldn't come as such a shock to you when someone questions the truth about ALL religions. I'll agree that using terms like 'BS' isn't the most tactful form of expression. But it basically just means they don't buy into any of them, in a similar way that you don't buy into Hinduism.

In other words, you are justifying rude language and insults. Bumblebee (or whatever his name is) has done the same. If that is the way this forum will go, I foresee that things are going to get very distasteful.

I'd rather have polite discussions. But let me know when you want me to describe your beliefs as BS. I'm ready, willing and able.

In other words, you are justifying rude language and insults. Bumblebee (or whatever his name is) has done the same. If that is the way this forum will go, I foresee that things are going to get very distasteful.

I'd rather have polite discussions. But let me know when you want me to describe your beliefs as BS. I'm ready, willing and able.

I've already said that use of the term BS was not tactful and am not sure I would have used it myself. And by the way... If you ever feel that a belief I hold is BS, feel free to say so (but please be sure to point out exactly what you think is false about it). I won't take offense, I promise. Being able to justify my beliefs is important to me. If ever I can't, I will most likely concede. I see no shame in that.

Thread closed, it is ending up as most, with attacks on religious beliefs by those with none, name calling and attempts to hijack the thread