I want to know why some men, that pay child support, just complain that it is way too much. We are talking about men who pay, oh around 200$ a month for a child, when the mother pays a lot more then that raising that child.
Why do men, yes I'm sure there are some woman, complain over such a small amount of money when it comes to a child?
I must stand and applaud the fathers who remain a great father through their child's life, and never complain about money.

Because most men don't really realise how much kids cost they don't buy their clothes and they don't go food shopping they don't realise how much nappies and baby milk and wipes and anything else costs because usually the woman doe's it

My eldest sons dad took him to toy city to get him a few things when he came back he had 4 items and the total of the 4 items was 350euro he looked and me and asked me if I was working at home because every room in my house except my room and the bathrooms have massive toy boxes full to the top with toys that's not included outside toys

They just don't realise how expensive kids are

Cookie Monster is right!!

The rate of child support is based on the income of the person paying. It's about 30%, or it was for us. Sorry to disagree with you COOKIE MONSTER, children do not have to cost that much. Sure, they add cost to the household, but maybe 15% if you shop carefully for daycare, housing and children's clothes.

We, as a society have become accustomed to a lifestyle where we get what we want. So our children "deserve" the best of everything. Does that really work? A parent, not custodial who lives on subsistence wages should not be required to pay 30% of his income! He might go to school, get a better paying job... with what?

Child support is about the kids. It usually goes to buy a nicer house (for the kids of course.)

I have known guys that work and pay child support and then do not have enough money left to pay their own bills. I think that is the main reason they complain. People say well you made the baby but hind sight is 20/20.

The rate of child support is based on the income of the person paying. It's about 30%, or it was for us. Sorry to disagree with you COOKIE MONSTER, children do not have to cost that much. Sure, they add cost to the household, but maybe 15% if you shop carefully for daycare, housing and children's clothes.

We, as a society have become accustomed to a lifestyle where we get what we want. So our children "deserve" the best of everything. Does that really work? A parent, not custodial who lives on subsistence wages should not be required to pay 30% of his income! He might go to school, get a better paying job...with what?

Child support is about the kids. It usually goes to buy a nicer house (for the kids of course.)

Geez, maybe what a mother pays for child things should be based on what she makes!
I think it is completely idiotic and unfair how it is picked out what child support is. If the man complains, give him the child to raise and then see what they think!

I have a close friend who is a single mother with two kids. She fights to find work and then most of it pays for the phone bill, rent, cable, clothes, food, and other very badly needed things.
She deals with a father that pays about $150 a month. That doesn't pay for much! Then when he is asked to cover the cost of his children's trip to visit him, he just complains that he's not happy with paying another 10 bucks!
I have dealt with a few female friends, single moms. They do anything and everything for their child and even move so the child is closer to their father. These are woman who don't get any time to go to a party, movie, anything! In every case the fathers have just complained about that small amount of money they have to pay.
I do know, not all men are like that. There are very few that never complain and always put their child first. I just don't understand why these selfish men are the way they are.
I also really hope they use a condom for the rest of their life.

Also want to add... when I was married I lived in an abandoned house with virtually no income. Four babies later my (now ex) husband was making $1,000. A month and broke by the end of each month. Rent, utilities, food, car insurance, monthly necessities.
My ex asked me why in the world was it costing so much now when we got by on practically nothing a few years earlier... DUH! We were living in an abandoned house in the boondocks!
Now we have 4 babies, bills, a house and a car. So I agree with Cookie Monster that guys just don't get the cost of living.

also want to add...when I was married I lived in an abandoned house with virtually no income. Four babies later my (now ex) husband was making $1,000. a month and broke by the end of each month. Rent, utilities, food, car insurance, monthly necessities.
My ex asked me why in the world was it costing so much now when we got by on practically nothing a few years earlier.....DUH! We were living in an abandoned house in the boondocks!
Now we have 4 babies, bills, a house and a car. So I agree with Cookie Monster that guys just don't get the cost of living.

And to think, we still vote them into the wrong places!

I would just like to point out that a single mom with TWO kids should have learned to cross her legs after ONE kid, if she wasn't at a point where she could afford it.

And really... your post should be repeated to all of the silly teens that are out having sex and then panicking and thinking "Am I pregnant?". Or even better--the ones that are TRYING to get pregnant.

I have no sympathy--neither for the fathers paying who are poor, nor for the mothers struggling to make ends meet. Sex = babies. Sex ed and society have SURELY made that clear by now. If you can't afford your kids, you should have either given them up for adoption, or kept your legs crossed.

Actually--I take it back. I DO have a little sympathy for the guy who had no choice in the matter, because the babymomma just HAD to have and KEEP her baby, and now he's stuck paying, because SHE wouldn't choose adoption.

I know JUST as many women that whine and complain about not getting enough child support, yet who are still wearing new jeans, with makeup, and cable TV and a new cellphone. Why do some WOMEN expect to be able to go out, buy new things, wear nice clothes and have time to themselves after they have kids?

If my sons dad gave me child support they will take the money he gives me out of my rent money so basically I don't get JACK S**T [OR SHOULD I SAY MY SON GETS JACK S**T]

SO WHAT IS THE POINT OF GETTING IT WHEN IT DOESN'T GO TO MY SON

I don't get any anyway id rather not

I would just like to point out that a single mom with TWO kids should have learned to cross her legs after ONE kid, if she wasn't at a point where she could afford it.

And really....your post should be repeated to all of the silly teens that are out having sex and then panicking and thinking "Am I pregnant?". Or even better--the ones that are TRYING to get pregnant.

I have no sympathy--neither for the fathers paying who are poor, nor for the mothers struggling to make ends meet. Sex = babies. Sex ed and society have SURELY made that clear by now. If you can't afford your kids, you should have either given them up for adoption, or kept your legs crossed.

Actually--I take it back. I DO have a little sympathy for the guy who had no choice in the matter, because the babymomma just HAD to have and KEEP her baby, and now he's stuck paying, because SHE wouldn't choose adoption.

I know JUST as many women that whine and complain about not getting enough child support, yet who are still wearing new jeans, with makeup, and cable TV and a new cellphone. Why do some WOMEN expect to be able to go out, buy new things, wear nice clothes and have time to themselves after they have kids?

You are very, very right! I do bug my friend about how she should have used protection the second time. She does always tell me how she was very close to having an abortion. The thing is, it was done and it's over.
Where I live, I see so many kids with kids. I'm well over thirty and very happy to have no kids! I have been a second mom to a close friend years ago, and was asked to sign papers to take custody. My friend now is doing the same thing. I do love helping, but I am not going to clean up after them.
There was a boy who was asking about having a child. We are talking about a 16 year old, who was wanting his girlfriend pregnant. He stated he was from a wealthy family, so his parents could take care of the baby.
Most times I wonder where the hell parents are that have these kids. I would also love to know why young people are so interested in having kids.

I really don't see where sex education and society have had an impact on kids not getting pregnant. They often use abortion as a birth control method too. I see and hear of so many teens wanting to get pregnant because they want a baby so bad. You even see it here on this site a lot kids wanting kids really bad. Then often they tell the guy they are on birth control or they can't get pregnant and the guy falls for it.
Then after they have the baby they wanted so bad they get bored with it and pawn it off on their mother.
I can see both sides of the problem, but I do agree about the women who cry they can't afford to feed and cloth their kid(s) and then buy designer clothing for themselves and go to the bar every Friday night. I have even known women who return the things the dad has bought for his kids so they have more money to spend on their own self.
It is a mess and that is exactly why I have been saying sex education needs to teach more reality and consequences.

Well Synnen I Was On The Pill And He Had Condom On And I Ended Up With My Youngest

And Why The Hell Should We Have To Live With Killing An Unborn Child I Couldn't Do It He Offered Me The Cash To Abort And I Slapped His Face For It It Wasn't Planned I Didn't Want Anymore Kids But I Could Live With Myself Killing A Baby Its Not Right Nor Could I Give It Up For Adoption

And Why The Hell Are You Blaming Us Females That's Not On It Takes Bloody 2 To Tango

Men don't have to live with the guilt of abortion we do,we would think about that baby everyday,what he\she could have been,were they would me now by mile stones,what colour hair,eyes they would have,what their personality would be like,birthdays,christmas,every child you see reminding you what you did

It's the same with miscarriage and adoption

You fellas don't have to live with the guilt

I have heard and know of women who live with the guilt daily. One of my friends said that the guy she lived with for years insisted she her get abortions or she had to leave him. They would be in their 20's now and she is always thinking about what her life would be like if they were here to do things with.

I got pregnant using a condom, birth control pill and using a spermicide.

I'm just pointing out that it DOES take two to tango--let's not just blame the DADS for not being able to afford kids/child support! You could have said "no" to sex too!

I didn't say you SHOULD have to choose abortion. I'm also saying that I sure as HELL don't want to pay taxes so that people can have kids they can't afford, either.

I chose adoption--and I certainly wouldn't advocate it. You want to talk about hurting for the rest of your life? Believe me, sister, I know that pain.

And the hell of it is: I can't get pregnant now. I gave up for adoption the ONLY child I will ever have.

My WHOLE point was exactly what you said: it wasn't planned. Well, the guys paying child support didn't plan it, either, and they have NO choice in what the mother does. I hear more stories on this site about dads that want to stop paying child support for the simple reason that the child's mother won't let him see his own kids!

I repeat: If you don't want kids, do not have sex. Birth control FAILS, as you can obviously attest. Why should you (you in general, not you specifically) get to keep your kids on MY taxpayer money, when I can't use taxpayer money for IVF or any other infertility treatment? If you can't afford your kids, they should be given to someone who CAN afford them--that's in the best interest of the child.

Frankly, I think that if you must go on public aid to support a child, OR if you have more than 2 children you are paying child support for (ESPECIALLY if your child support doesn't BEGIN to cover the state cost of helping to support the child) you should be sterilized. Or at the very LEAST placed on a form of mandatory birth control that you can not voluntarily stop (such as an implant or the shot).

I ALSO think that you should have to pass a test in order to become a parent. Fail the test and Voilà! There's a perfectly adoptable baby out there for all of those "poor childless couples who desperately want to adopt" (which is the biggest line of baloney that I hear all the time from advocates of adoption--especially those advocates who are pro-life).

Frankly, I think that the REAL solution lies in taking away state aid. Period. If you can't get welfare to take care of your kids, you'd be less willing to risk HAVING a kid you can't afford, which would stop so many teen pregnancies (because believe me, they KNOW they can get help to raise their babies). If you had to choose between watching your kids starve and just not having sex--pretty easy choice, wouldn't you say?

Oh--and those kids that are starving? The state would HAPPILY place them with a family that could afford them.

Dear lord--why are you turning it back on me, anyway? I'm just pointing out that there are valid reasons a guy would complain about having to pay child support--the MOST valid being that he would have chosen adoption instead of parenting, but didn't get that choice like SHE did--and now he has to pay for kids he seldom (if ever) gets to see.

I agree with you that there are valid reasons for a guy being upset. Also, too many dads are paying support for kids they believe to be theirs and aren't which I think is really a bad hand dealt to them. More guys are wising up to insisting on a paternity test first.
I just see that so many kids are irresponsible and do not think of the consequences all they see is they want baby---takes guy to get baby, -----not a care about what to do or how to care for or afford baby after the fact. They barely think much past the nine months and holding a baby in their arms. They picture them pushing a baby in a stroller and how 'cute' it would be.

Synnen, you made the decision that was best for YOU. I think women that recognize that they are unable to take care of a child and decide to give it up for adoption are special people. I applaud you for that, really I do. No one here mentioned anything about being on state aid. I agree, that if you can't take care of a child and must do so with public assistance, then you should not continue having children. However, child support and public assistance aren't the same thing.

I for one, don't receive either. I was in a relationship for 2 yrs with a man I loved, where we discussed having children and had planned to get married. The relationship turned abusive the last few months and I got out. I didn't know I was pregnant at the time. Like Cookie Monster said, there is no way I would have aborted my child, although I don't pass judgement on those that choose that route. My point is, that a relationship went bad and a child resulted out of it. I don't regret my child. I am going back and forth to court to try to get child support because he SHOULD have to help. He figures that since I ended it then the child should suffer. That's not fair to the innocent baby. I have been taking care of my child on my own since the day I knew he was growing in my womb but that doesn't exempt his father from helping me to support him. As I said, I AM NOT ON PUBLIC ASSISTANCE, I WORK FULL-TIME, I OWN MY OWN HOME AND HAVE A COLLEGE EDUCATION, but why should these dads get off scott-free?

I don't expect my son's father to pay for my cable TV, makeup, or cell phone, but he should have to help pay for diapers, daycare, and formula. And child support isn't a 'payment' for visitation, it's to help take care of the baby. Again, my son's father has an open invitation to see his son whenever he wants, but he chooses not to. Just because he doesn't want to be a part of his life (again, out of anger towards me for having the good sense to put an end to the abuse), doesn't mean he's not supposed to be part of his life. I have never denied him visitation and I don't hold our past against him when it comes to the child that we BOTH created.

Well Synnen I Was On The Pill And He Had Condom On And I Ended Up With My Youngest

And Why The Hell Should We Have To Live With Killing An Unborn Child I Couldn't Do It He Offered Me The Cash To Abort And I Slapped His Face For It It Wasn't Planned I Didn't Want Anymore Kids But I Could Live With Myself Killing A Baby Its Not Right Nor Could I Give It Up For Adoption

And Why The Hell Are You Blaming Us Females Thats Not On It Takes Bloody 2 To Tango

Abortion is not for you, me or anyone to tell other woman if it's right or wrong. It is completely the woman's choice, and the woman alone. Not yours, not mine, no one else's. Abortion is legal because there is no human life being killed.

Well I disagree I think alife is being killed but that's my opinion and that is what this site is for opinions and I was giving mine and in ireland it is NOT legal there is NOT 1 abortion clinic in ireland NOT 1 if you want an abortion it cost nearly 1000euro that's not including travel etc

See... I think that nikosmom kind of added to my point.

Not ALL single moms are on public assistance (though there are too many for my liking) but not ALL dads are deadbeats complaining about child support, either (though there are still too many for my liking there, too)

And let's not turn this into an abortion debate (over whether it's a human life). I know you agree with me that it's a woman's choice--but that's because each woman defines whether it is life differently, as well.

I am on social welfare payment or public assistance if you want to call it I wish I wasn't but I am my youngest is just nearly 6months my eldest is 2 and as soon as my youngest has started nursery I will be getting the ball rolling to be a drugs councillor and I'm learning html at the moment aswel so I can get a good job

For many men ( not all of course) move on, start a new family, and they get used to living on certain incomes, Many don't visit their child and don't feel any responsilibty to the child.

So when 20 to 30 percent of their pay goes for the child, then their new wife or girl friend also fusses that they are not bringing home enough money.

While the truth is they have a moral and legal obligation, many just don't realise it

First off I get so tired of hearing about guys complaining about paying child support. It is a two way street. I was a single dad for 11 years, my oldest son is now 22. My ex-wife is a RN in a state hospital. She was making $50,000.00 a year with full benefits. My son lived with me and I provided all insurance, cloths etc... I was making $25,000.00 a year. She was court ordered to pay me $105.00 per month. At 16 years old my son went to go live with his mother... the courts ordered me to continue carrying insurance on my son and I had to pay her $425.00 per month. Go Figure?? My son who was an A-B student and a Boy Scout quit school and was busted for theft in a walmart store with in 6 weeks of being with his mother. He moved in with friends and got a girl pregnant before he turned 17. Guess what... I still had to pay child support even though he didn't live with his mother! I guess that makes me a "BAD DAD" for complaining about how much I pay. I need to say one more thing to COOKIEMONSTER... child support is to help you raise your children... It is NOT meant to be spent on TOYS. It is to help pay rent,utilities,cloths,food and etc... I don't much care how some moms want to complain about how hard things are... I was a single dad who raised my son, worked 40+ hours a week, assisted in FFA, was a Boy Scout leader, coached baseball and soccer, cooked all the meals, did all the laundry and cleaning... plus I did odd jobs on the weekends to make ends meet... you know why... because I had to!! AND I would do it all again to have that time with my son!! You have your children... suck it up and make the best of it. If there is any questions I would like to ask it is WHY does a man who makes half the money his ex-wife makes have to pay over 4 times the child support she does??
Mike

I would like to chime in about the mothers using the child support money for their leisure...

It does NOT matter how the mother uses the money. It only matters that the father is paying x amount each month like he is suppose to. What she does with the money is her business and hers alone.

For awhile I battled the same situation and thought that it wasn't fair that a father pays $500/month and the mother does what ever with it. Not only did I realise that it was none of my business but also that as long as he is giving her the proper amount for their child, he is safe.

Yes, it angers me too that mothers uses child support money to buy clothes, shoes, make up, get their hair or nails done, or worst yet, cosmetic/plastic surgery but hey, we live in that kind of world. We either have to deal with it, or live in anger. I choose to deal with it because and by happy for myself, happy that I'm not making those decisions.

This topic seems to be somewhat of a rollercoaster. Every single person who has commented on this thread has very valid points. But some should be careful as to what they say. Then again, this is a place for everyone to voice their OPINION, so I'd like to share what I feel if it's OK.

I am 27 years old, single mom, three kids. Two different dads. Yep, there, I said it. Obviously, had my first born when I was very young (17). Was with her dad for four years. Left for obvious reasons, too young, needed to make a REAL life for my daughter and I. I worked, went to college, and raised her on my own. The next two came from the same father, both were planned, we were together for 7 years. For those of you who say... "you should've kept your legs closed..." -well you are right to some extent. But how are we to always know how the future is going to end up? It's impossible. No one knows that their lover is going to cheat on them, or beat them, or leave them and never return for weeks, months, years at a time. That doesn't mean one should have kept her legs closed because-OOPS, their baby's daddy turned out to be a loser after all. A little too late for all that. I have always worked, and provided every single thing that my children have ever needed, clothing, food, medical, bedtime stories, kissing ouchies, you name it. I work full time, clean the house DAILY, pay for daycare, attend school functions, plays, take them to the park, let them play outside in the snow-whatever I can to keep them happy and healthy. And frankly, that keeps ME happy and healthy. I have a good job, offers benefits, 401 K-basically the works. But, hopefully some, or better yet, all of you may know-nothing is for free. Even those nice benefits from work. It takes money out of your paycheck. I make decent money, and I know one should not post what they make on the internet full of strangers, so I won't post EXACTLY what I make, but it's between $14-$15 per hour. To most of you, that's probably petty. But I've worked long and hard just to make it to that salary and I'm damn proud of it. I can't afford the cost of the insurance that my work provides because it takes too much out of my paycheck, which takes money away from the cost of living. I cannot contribute to my 401 K and additional stocks because it takes money away from the cost of living. I have never went after any of the kids' fathers for child support. That was my biggest mistake right there... until recently. None of them ever worked, nor do they have jobs now (therefore-part of the reason why we are not together-part of it). So, in addition, I have recently gone down to the Division of Family Support to see if I would qualify for any kind of assistance at all. I was disqualified for every single thing. The only thing I MIGHT be eligible for is medicaid for my kids, not even myself. Ok, good. Well at least that is something. I asked the caseworker after I was informed of all this-"Well, what if the father doesn't ever pay?"-He shrugged his shoulders and told me he didn't know what to tell me. So here I am, in square one again.

I don't disagree to the fact that there are so many people on welfare for the wrong reasons, but I don't get why public assistance/welfare will ONLY help those people who don't have a job or make under $6.25 an hour. I absolutely think that the non-custodial parent should help financially raise their children. As far as the guidelines go as to what percentage should go towards that-I don't know. There are a lot of people who work full time plus some, pay taxes, etc... but don't qualify for any assistance AND don't get child support.

My overall point is-it is ABSOLUTELY fair that both parties should be equally responsible for the financial upbringing of their children and it should definitely go by the salary that each parent is making. NO one should ever tell anyone to just keep their legs closed or that their parents are to blame because of the current situation. My parents raised me right from wrong, I was punished when I was bad, and I was rewarded when I was good. If anyone ever told me that it was my parents' fault for the way my life turned out-I'd straight up tell them where to go. Unless someone knew me and my family well, no one should judge another by what they read/see/hear from the outside-because you just don't know what is really going on from within.

Depressed in MO,

I like your statement. You are a very strong woman. No, it is not right to tell someone that they should've kept their legs closed because who would've thought that the love of your life would turn their back on you one day? No one knows and no one can tell the future.

Depressed in MO,

I like your statement. You are a very strong woman. No, it is not right to tell someone that they should've kept their legs closed because who would've thought that the love of your life would turn their back on you one day? No one knows and no one can tell the future.

Thank you for the support. Again, I totally agree, well, understand everyone's opinion here. But every situation is different. Unfortunately, the society is the way that it is. If one wants to continue getting pregnant, regardless of HOW or WHY, then I think the most important thing they need to be taught (other than Birth Control or absitenence 101), is how to deal with the way they will be treated in society-financially and mentally.

Again, Thank you.

I agree with Depressed in saying that none of us know what the future holds for relationships, whether married or not. I knew my son's father for 5 years BEFORE we were romantically involved and we were together for 2 yrs. The abuse didn't start until the last few months. I had no idea it would've turned out like that. But to be blunt, I opened my legs to him because I loved him at the time. That's what people that love each other do; they have sex.

I also think Mike made a good point, that responsibility should be shared equally. So for all the single dads out there, I think they are entitled to child support as well relative to the income of the other parent.

I give my son everything he NEEDS. If I ever get child support, you better believe that it'll be used for daycare, clothes,food, and other living expenses; not toys. Also like Mike mentioned, the custodial parent is spending so much more when the child actually lives in your home. You don't get to charge class field trips and birthday gifts to child support, but don't we all want to be able to do those simple things for our children? Child support doesn't account for going to PTA/teacher meetings after work when you're dog-tired. It doesn't account for staying up or missing work when your child is sick. It doesn't account for driving them back and forth to doctors appts and pee-wee league football games. So I think male or female, the non-custodial parent should be held responsible.

And I don't want anybody telling me I should've kept my legs closed because my child is a blessing to me. He has been a wonderful addition to my life and regardless of what happened with his father, I'm thankful that he chose me to come through unto life. I have to make it the best I can until I can get a judgement against him.

This is really making feel very happy and grateful to be who I am!
I really wish birth control was out and available a lot more, I also really wish parents would be a lot more open to their kids and discuss the outcome. Sex education is a class that should be taught in every school to every child! Make teenagers live like parents for a week and then see how they think!

You are so right svatnsdal about parents being open with their kids.

But I don't think that the lack of sex education has an effect on so many pregnancies. Even if it were taught in every single school I still don't think that is a huge factor.

I'll tell you what I do believe to be partially blamed for and that is the media. I don't think any movie these days can't finish unless there is some steamy part added. There are a few that don't have them, but most do.

Parents do have a lot to do with their child's upbringing. Thank fully my parents were open enough to discuss it with me. As a teen, I looked at intercourse as 'Well if I do it, I will get pregnant and be miserable.' Not all pregnancies end in horror but as a teen they just might.

If a woman wants and is granted custody of a child and limit shared access to the father she should get nothing(Except for special circumstances). If there is split access to the child or children, the man shouldn't have to pay a cent. In these cases I would complain too
If it is a dad who doesn't want to take responsibility for his own child and raise the child, he would be a waste of skin... And complaining about money is the least of his low life problems.

[QUOTE=Greg Quinn]If a woman wants and is granted custody of a child and limit shared access to the father she should get nothing(Except for special circumstances). If there is split access to the child or children, the man shouldn't have to pay a cent. In these cases I would complain too

Sorry, but In my opinion, only a man would say this. Sorry, what I mean is the "non-custodial" parent.

Please don't be offended as I mean nothing personally to you if I HAVE offended you, it's just that BOTH parties should be responsible for the financial upbringing of their children, no matter who has them at ANY time.

A CHILD NEEDS EDUCATIONAL TOYS TO HELP IT GROW AND LEARN AND TO USE ITS BRAIN
I get 360euro a week 155 goes to rent leaving 205euro left about 90euro goes on food leaving 115euro,12 goes on coal,6 on taxi home with shopping,leaving 97 which goes on the electric bill,clothes and toys for both my sons they don't get toys every week[because I have bills] and I do have family that buy them toys and most of the toys are from bloody xmas my son has been taught to look after his things because mammy can't afford to buy him new 1s every week just because I have a house full of toys does not mean I bought them all I did not say I bought them all if you read it and it does not meen they were all brand new either I buy most toys on eBay
My sons are both well fed and clothed and if they need something I go with out I've needed anew coat for 3 years and I've just saved up enough money to get the one I want I don't go round with designer gear and anew cell I got mine last year I saved up for that aswel

And anyway I don't get child support off either of my sons dads I don't want it either I get by just fine yeah sometimes it's a struggle but I don't complain I get on with it if I need anew top or pair of pants I go oxfam or see if theirs anything cheap on sale I don't buy brand gear its not my style and it costs way too much I don't go out drinking and partying because I don't have the money to plus I don't drink I don't do drugs either my mum gave me my PC because she got anew 1 most of what I have is second hand so don't be giving me all that crap I budget my cash I have to I won't end up like my mum with bills up to her eyeballs and if you don't believe me go and ask teatea on this site she's my auntie

That's very true Deppressed in MO.

Why should a man get away with every seed he plants? If that were the case, then EVERY man would go around, getting women pregnant, and then going on as they please.

A CHILD NEEDS EDUCATIONAL TOYS TO HELP IT GROW AND LEARN AND TO USE ITS BRAIN
i get 360euro a week 155 goes to rent leaving 205euro left about 90euro goes on food leaving 115euro,12 goes on coal,6 on taxi home with shopping,leaving 97 which goes on the electric bill,clothes and toys for both my sons they don't get toys every week[because i have bills] and i do have family that buy them toys and most of the toys are from bloody xmas my son has been taught to look after his things because mammy can't afford to buy him new 1s every week just because i have a house full of toys does not mean i bought them all i did not say i bought them all if you read it and it does not meen they was all brand new either i buy most toys on ebay
my sons are both well fed and clothed and if they need something i go with out ive needed anew coat for 3 years and ive just saved up enough money to get the one i want i don't go round with designer gear and anew cell i got mine last year i saved up for that aswel

and anyway i don't get child support off either of my sons dads i don't want it either i get by just fine yeah sometimes its a struggle but i don't complain i get on with it if i need anew top or pair of pants i go oxfam or see if theirs anything cheap on sale i don't buy brand gear its not my style and it costs way to much i don't go out drinking and partying because i don't have the money to plus i don't drink i don't do drugs either my mum gave me my pc because she got anew 1 most of what i have is second hand so don't be giving me all that crap i budget my cash i have to i wont end up like my mum with bills up to her eyeballs and if you don't believe me go and ask teatea on this site she's my auntie

Honey, you don't have to explain yourself to anyone on this site, it's no one's business. All that matters is what you think and feel about YOU.
Good luck to you and your family. You sound like a good mom to me.

This is really making feel very happy and grateful to be who I am!
I really wish birth control was out and available a lot more, I also really wish parents would be a lot more open to their kids and discuss the outcome. Sex education is a class that should be taught in every school to every child! Make teenagers live like parents for a week and then see how they think!

I agree with you too. I think it goes deeper than the parents talking to their kids about sex. I believe that a lot of parents DO talk to their kids about sex.
I remember being scared to tell my mom when I wanted to go on birth control as I felt she would be ashamed of me or I would be in trouble because she would then think or know that I was having sex.-even though she always assured me that I could come to her with anything.I think, in addition, or even before-the SEX talk-parents need to open up to their children to let them know that they can come to them ANYTIME they have a problem or question on ANY subject. People shouldn't be so quick to judge-It's not just about the lack in talking about sex education when it comes to blaming parents. It should be about their overal relationship as a whole with the child. Again, just my opinion.

Well it pissed me off to be honest with you and when something pisses me off I have to say what I think or explain myself or b**ch at that person and I have done all 3 and feel better for it

well it pissed me off to be honest with you and when something pisses me off i have to say what i think or explain myself or b**ch at that person and i have done all 3 and feel better for it

Well I personally wasn't calling you out. I mentioned the thing about toys because the messages that I referenced (Depressed & 1UNV) were talking about furnishing children's NEEDS. I think all the custodial parents are entitled to support from the other parent. I'm going to keep going to court until I get a judgement. My son needs that money and he shouldn't be punished just because his father is angry at me about ending our relationship.

I agree with Depressed that you don't have to reveal to anyone on this site how much money you receive. Can I ask why you don't seek support from your kids' fathers? They deserve that help and possibly with that help you won't be in such a predicament. This is what the original question was: why is it that a lot of fathers think they shouldn't have to pay child support.

nikosmom I wasn't b**tching or pissed at your comment it was meant for the1unv

You know... to offer a possible solution for this:

I bet more non-custodial parents would be HAPPY to pay more in support if they could just give the STUFF that kids need, and not pay money.

For example, if the NCP were to have to drop off groceries once a week, and provide health insurance, and those two things were equal to 30% of the NCP's paycheck, I bet a lot of NCPs would be happy to do so. It would give them choice in how that money is spent, and it would reassure them that their child support was being used for just that--supporting their child. Or perhaps all clothing and necessary food would be bought by the NCP, leaving the CP with the things like the electric and water bill and rent - things that the CP can affect (which would, in effect, start teaching kids ecological lessons of not wasting water or electricity).

I know that if *I* could not see my kids whenever I wanted, yet in return I was to turn over 1/3 of my income for the kids I couldn't see whenver I wanted--well, dropping off groceries is a chance to see them! Or taking the kids shopping with me so that I can learn some of what they like and dislike!

I'm just saying that some of these "dead-beats" probably wouldn't be such jerks if they could actually choose a bit of where that money was going.

Synnen,

You make such an excellent point. Maybe the courts can order that to the NCP.

First off I get so tired of hearing about guys complaining about paying child support. It is a two way street. I was a single dad for 11 years, my oldest son is now 22. My ex-wife is a RN in a state hospital. She was making $50,000.00 a year with full benefits. My son lived with me and I provided all insurance, cloths ect.... I was making $25,000.00 a year. She was court ordered to pay me $105.00 per month. At 16 years old my son went to go live with his mother...........the courts ordered me to continue carrying insurance on my son and I had to pay her $425.00 per month. Go Figure ???? My son who was an A-B student and a Boy Scout quit school and was busted for theft in a walmart store with in 6 weeks of being with his mother. He moved in with friends and got a girl pregnant before he turned 17. Guess what.........I still had to pay child support even though he didnt live with his mother !! I guess that makes me a "BAD DAD" for complaining about how much I pay. I need to say one more thing to COOKIEMONSTER..........child support is to help you raise your children..............It is NOT meant to be spent on TOYS. It is to help pay rent,utilities,cloths,food and ect...... I dont much care how some moms want to complain about how hard things are......I was a single dad who raised my son, worked 40+ hours a week, assisted in FFA, was a Boy Scout leader, coached baseball and soccer, cooked all the meals, did all the laundry and cleaning........plus I did odd jobs on the weekends to make ends meet....you know why............because I had to !!!!! AND I would do it all again to have that time with my son !!!! You have your children.......suck it up and make the best of it. If there is any questions I would like to ask it is WHY does a man who makes half the money his ex-wife makes have to pay over 4 times the child support she does ???
Mike

Just think, every time your son shows such great things, you can point out to your ex that you were the one that raised him! You are a one in a million men, and I am one woman who is very proud of you. Your son is a very lucky boy, or man!

Synnen, If more non-custodial parents were doing those things voluntarily (buying groceries, clothes, etc.) then there wouldn't be the need for the child support enforcent system. Child support has nothing to do with visitation (I feel like I'm repeating myself). Most NCP's have visitation agreements but don't uphold their end out of anger and/or resentment.

In a perfect world, it'd be great if once a relationship failed, that everybody did what they're supposed to for the sake of the children but that's not always how it goes. NCPs have rights to visitation just like the custodial parent has a right to receive child support. If they're not being allowed to see their children then they can also seek assistance in having their visitation rights enforced.

So far as paying for health insurance as an alternative to child support... that DOES factor into the amount of support ordered. So if the NCP is the one paying for insurance, then that amount would be deducted from the judgement. The whole "dropping off groceries" idea is only feasible if the NCP is local.

Just to let you know: not EVERY custodial parent is seeking child support for the "wrong reasons". Again on a personal note, I provide ALL of my son's needs without any public assistance or even any help from family. So that means I'm paying for food, clothes, diapers/wipes, daycare, health insurance & dr copays, life insurance, and college savings on top of any incidental needs like medicine, toiletries, and baby furniture that they need as they grow (high chair, bigger car seats, stroller). This doesn't account for the fact that my son lives in my house so he's sharing/increasing utilities because that's more laundry that I have to do weekly, more dishes that I have to wash, more water I'm using. If his father was helping with these things now, I wouldn't have to put them on the affidavit for him to pay half of later!

[QUOTE=Greg Quinn]If a woman wants and is granted custody of a child and limit shared access to the the father she should get nothing(Except for special circumstances). If there is split access to the child or children, the man shouldn't have to pay a cent. In these cases I would complain too

Sorry, but IMHO, only a man would say this. Sorry, what I mean is the "non-custodial" parent.

Please don't be offended as I mean nothing personally to you if I HAVE offended you, it's just that BOTH parties should be responsible for the financial upbringing of their children, no matter who has them at ANY time.
-------------------------------------------
My X tried very hard to limit access to my daughter for her own sick twisted selfish reasons. I was lucky enough to be able to obtain a lawyer expensive enough to get what I wanted, split everything. And that's what is best for my child!! I pay nothing to that woman! If she had gotten her way, I would see my little girl every second weekend and once every Wednesday. LOL... And then she of course would go for my income to help raise her. I'm tired of so many woman wanting their pie my pie, and government tax breaks, subsidies etc...
Because I was a business owner I was at home for two years with my daughter raising her from morning till night. Her mother had terrible parenting instincts from day one, and it was I who was awake every night doing all the things both parents should have done.
I did find your point to be offencive. If I was to take the deal offered to me, and still told to pay large percentage support payments, I would go crazy! I couldn't handle it, how unfair is that? Men who want to be there but have had woman use the system to screw them out of their god given right to be great parents should not have to pay if they are being limited access. Only a selfish sick twisted person would hold something so great and powerful away from someone and ask them for a monthly payment to view.
If you want to do it on your own, use the system against a hard working nonviolent responsible father who would be there as he has always been. Well, DO IT ON YOUR OWN THEN! Thank god I was able to spend so many thousands of dollars to get what is best for my daughter, absolute equality between parents.
If I had limited access, I would think it to be justifiable if I were to only provide finances on those accessed days to feed nourish and pay the cost of living for my daughter.

Nikosmom:

You are taking me way too personally.

I am offering constructive solutions for SOME of the issues surrounding child support. In a perfect world, parents of a child would be committed to each other fully and there would be no NEED for child support, frankly.

You say that there are ways to enforce visitation? Well, there are as many flaws with THAT system as there are with enforcing child support.

I realize that YOU are not "all mothers" and that not "all" dads want to be a part of their kids' lives.

But frankly... your bitterness about the whole thing kind of ticks me off. I'd give just about anything to HAVE a child, whether I was doing it solo, and trying to support us both on one person's income.

How about being grateful for what you have?

There are two sides to EVERY story, and while everything that's done should be done in the best interest of the child, well... parents are human too, and I bet that every last parent on earth has moments where they put themselves ahead of their child, for whatever reason.

This whole thread is moot. The NCP will always have a reason, that, in their opinion, is valid for not paying child support. And the CP will NEVER be satisfied with the child support that they're getting.

Sorry but I disagree... A man paying child support should have the right to know the money is being spent on their child. There are children out there wearing old filthy cloths and eating dry cereal out of the box for supper because that's all they have in the cubard... what did the money get spent on?? Well when there is a case of beer in the fridge and a carton of smokes on the coffee table... My point is this... child support is for the child, NOT, the for the parent to blow on whatever they see fit. I agree all kids need some toys and educational toys are great... that is not my issue. My problem is when a parent chooses a GI Joe over a pound a hamburger. My son (older now) told me his mother couldn't wait for the check in the mail... he said she went straight to the liqueur store and then to her "friends house" for a little bag of something she won't share. My son got 2nd degree burns on his fingers trying to cook a box of mac - n - cheese for dinner. It was 1pm and he couldn't wake his mom up to tell her he was hungry. These things are not OK. I am not saying anyone on this site is like that, but those parents are out there!!
Also no one replied to my question about Moms who don't pay. Turn on the TV and listen to all these commercials about "dead beat dads"... I have never seen one such commercial talking about dead beat moms.
I applaud all moms who are raising their kids alone... it is hard, especially with out support! I do however think the parents who receive support money should have to show how it was spent. I don't care if it was a gas bill. Food or a toy... A two year old child should not do with out so mom can get a new hair doo or so dad can by a new fishing pole.
Mike

Nikosmom:

You are taking me way too personally.

I am offering constructive solutions for SOME of the issues surrounding child support. In a perfect world, parents of a child would be committed to each other fully and there would be no NEED for child support, frankly.

You say that there are ways to enforce visitation? Well, there are as many flaws with THAT system as there are with enforcing child support.

I realize that YOU are not "all mothers" and that not "all" dads want to be a part of their kids' lives.

But frankly...your bitterness about the whole thing kinda ticks me off. I'd give just about anything to HAVE a child, whether or not I was doing it solo, and trying to support us both on one person's income.

How about being grateful for what you have?

There are two sides to EVERY story, and while everything that's done should be done in the best interest of the child, well...parents are human too, and I bet that every last parent on earth has moments where they put themself ahead of their child, for whatever reason.

This whole thread is moot. The NCP will always have a reason, that, in their opinion, is valid for not paying child support. and the CP will NEVER be satisfied with the child support that they're getting.

This post makes one issue plain: This is NOT a perfect world. So therefore, we DO have the need for child support enforcement, courts, jails, and everything else that makes life difficult. Sure, there are flaws with every system, but both parties still have rights.

I AM extremely grateful for what I have, which is why I work so hard at maintaining it. I work hard at giving my child the things he NEEDS (those things I mentioned in my earlier post). I love my child with everything in me. That does not mean that his father should not be held responsible for helping me to provide for him. I don't think anyone should try to justify not taking care of their children. You can't say that the CP will NEVER be satisfied; I know of many that'd be satisfied if the NCP did what they were ordered; I would. He's NOT doing it voluntarily, so that's where the courts come in. He works. So why shouldn't he have to help? I give EVERYTHING I have to my child, my time, my money, and my love. Heck, he lived in my body and I took great care of him then... don't even get me started on medical expenses incurred from having a baby. Even with insurance, I'm STILL paying off the hospital bill, but unfortunately I can't put that on the affadavit.

You seem to be the bitter one. You mentioned that you had a child and gave him/her up for adoption. That was your decision and apparently the best one for you at the time. So therefore, you don't really know what it takes to raise a child, now do you? Babysitting isn't the same as being 100% responsible for a baby from day one. When you have a child living with you every day, and you're responsible for providing for every single one of their needs, then you'll know what it's like to feel that the other parent should be doing SOMEthing to help.

[QUOTE=Depressed in MO]
-------------------------------------------
My X tried very hard to limit access to my daughter for her own sick twisted selfish reasons. I was lucky enough to be able to obtain a lawyer expensive enough to get what I wanted, split everything. And thats what is best for my child!!. I pay nothing to that woman! If she had gotten her way, I would see my little girl every second weekend and once every Wednesday. LOL... And then she of course would go for my income to help raise her. I'm tired of so many woman wanting their pie my pie, and government tax breaks, subsidies etc...
Because I was a business owner I was at home for two years with my daughter raising her from morning till night. Her mother had terrible parenting instincts from day one, and it was I who was awake every night doing all the things both parents should have done.
I did find your point to be offencive. If I was to take the deal offered to me, and still told to pay large percentage support payments, I would go crazy!! I couldn't handle it, how unfair is that? Men who want to be there but have had woman use the system to screw them out of their god given right to be great parents should not have to pay if they are being limited access. Only a selfish sick twisted person would hold something so great and powerful away from someone and ask them for a monthly payment to view.
If you wanna do it on your own, use the system against a hard working nonviolent responsible father who would be there as he has always been. Well, DO IT ON YOUR OWN THEN! Thank god I was able to spend so many thousands of dollars to get what is best for my daughter, absolute equality between parents.
If I had limited access, I would think it to be justifiable if I were to only provide finances on those accessed days to feed nourish and pay the cost of living for my daughter.

Sorry if you were offended, but BOTH parties are equally responsible for the financial welfare of the child. I did NOT go into specifics, of course it would be more fair if the custodial parent didn't limit the access to the noncustodial's visitation; however, the noncustodial parent CAN go enforce those rights, just as the custodial parent CAN enforce the child support. I don't disagree with you at all on your views, all I am saying is just because you don't have your child ALL of the time, does not mean you should not be responsible at all for financially taking care of your child. As far as only being responsible for the days that you have your child, sure that is a great idea, if you have him/her every other day of the week. Then, it would be equal. But most cases aren't like that. I feel that both parents should be EQUALLY financially responsible for the upbringing of their kids.

If my children's father showed up with groceries every other week, I'd be grateful. If he paid only half of everything I have to pay for of their needs, I would be grateful and consider that fair. That's me, that's MY opinion, that is what I consider fair. Not all of the custodial parents are crazy money hungry b**** es. . You should WANT to provide to your daughter no matter where she is at.
Again, I am really sorry that I offended you. I am actually on your side though.

But as great as a father you sound, some of the things you have mentioned above sound a little selfish

"If I had limited access, I would think it to be justifiable if I were to only provide finances on those accessed days to feed nourish and pay the cost of living for my daughter"

Sorry but I disagree........ A man paying child support should have the right to know the money is being spent on their child. There are children out there wearing old filthy cloths and eating dry cereal out of the box for supper because thats all they have in the cubard........what did the money get spent on???? well when there is a case of beer in the fridge and a carton of smokes on the coffee table............My point is this.....child support is for the child, NOT, the for the parent to blow on whatever they see fit. I agree all kids need some toys and educational toys are great......that is not my issue. My problem is when a parent chooses a GI Joe over a pound a hamburger. My son (older now) told me his mother couldnt wait for the check in the mail...........he said she went straight to the liqueur store and then to her "friends house" for a little bag of something she wont share. My son got 2nd degree burns on his fingers trying to cook a box of mac - n - cheese for dinner. It was 1pm and he couldnt wake his mom up to tell her he was hungry. These things are not OK. I am not saying anyone on this site is like that, but those parents are out there !!!
Also no one replied to my question about Moms who dont pay. Turn on the TV and listen to all these commercials about "dead beat dads".............I have never seen one such commercial talking about dead beat moms.
I applaud all moms who are raising their kids alone.........it is hard, especially with out support!! I do however think the parents who receive support money should have to show how it was spent. I dont care if it was a gas bill. food or a toy...........A two year old child should not do with out so mom can get a new hair doo or so dad can by a new fishing pole.
Mike

Yes, a man should have the right to know, but doesn't and never will.

Synnen said "This whole thread is moot. The NCP will always have a reason, that, in their opinion, is valid for not paying child support. and the CP will NEVER be satisfied with the child support that they're getting."


I totally agree with you there!:cool:

Not all men are seeking to get out of their responsibility to support their children, they simply want to be treated fairly by family court systems and the custodial parents. Most men that do pay are still denied visitation, deal with parental alienation, treated very unfairly when in family court system and always deemed "deadbeat dads" because family court now does wage assignment instead of letting fathers simply make weekly,bi-weekly or monthly pmts. When this happens their employer knows all their business as well as anyone else in the company interested in the gossip about what happened to so and so today and hinders non custodial parents in future promotion that will also benefit the child. The family court labels non custodial parents before their court appearance and that label sticks like glue.

When my husbands ex(works as social worker at DCS) sued him was only after we were married, until that time he paid weekly by check or cash to her always on time, since our marriage she has had him in court 4 to 5 times a year, because of her position with Department of Human Services she knows all Family Court judges and lawyers and works with them daily, he never wins and has been on wage assignment since the first court date(2001) we were married in 2000. She has our income tax offset every year with false accussations of past due medical bills, last time state held refund for 18months until she accumalated enough med bills to keep the money. Now the last court date(mar 2008) judge ordered him to continue to pay until 2010 when child will be 20yrs old and only just graduating from high school. Mother held her behind 2 years in kindergarten (that was during their divorce) at the time she was dating the current Child Support Attorney for this state. I'm sure he has advised her along the way on how to ruin us financially. It has worked, He pays almost $500.00 mo for 1 child who works and will not even call him or speak to him any longer. This childwanted to live with us until she was older and learned what money could do for her. Now Child Support Attorney wines and dines them both in style on my husbands money and we are struggling just to survive.

NOT ALL MEN SEEKING TO LOWER CHILD SUPPORT ARE DEADBEATS. SOME WOMEN ARE GREEDY AND WANT WHAT EVER THEY CAN GET THEIR HANDS ON AT ANY COST EVEN THE COST OF A DAUGHTER AND FATHERS LOVE MEANS NOTHING TO THESE GREEDY WOMEN. I AM A WOMAN AND I RAISED 2 SONS WITHOUT CHILD SUPPORT, WHEN I FINALLY GOT IT, I RECEIVED $35.00 PER WEEK BUT I DID NOT TRY TO CAUSE DISCORD BETWEEN MY CHILDREN AND THEIR FATHER, I DID NOT TRY TO RUIN HIM FINANCIALLY EVEN THOUGH HE CHEATED ON ME, BEAT ME AND NEGLECTED OUR SONS. EVERYONE ANSWERS FOR THEIR SINS AND GREED IS A BAD ONE.

I would just like to point out that a single mom with TWO kids should have learned to cross her legs after ONE kid, if she wasn't at a point where she could afford it.

And really....your post should be repeated to all of the silly teens that are out having sex and then panicking and thinking "Am I pregnant?". Or even better--the ones that are TRYING to get pregnant.

I have no sympathy--neither for the fathers paying who are poor, nor for the mothers struggling to make ends meet. Sex = babies. Sex ed and society have SURELY made that clear by now. If you can't afford your kids, you should have either given them up for adoption, or kept your legs crossed.

Actually--I take it back. I DO have a little sympathy for the guy who had no choice in the matter, because the babymomma just HAD to have and KEEP her baby, and now he's stuck paying, because SHE wouldn't choose adoption.

I know JUST as many women that whine and complain about not getting enough child support, yet who are still wearing new jeans, with makeup, and cable TV and a new cellphone. Why do some WOMEN expect to be able to go out, buy new things, wear nice clothes and have time to themselves after they have kids?



The fact that you feel for the fathers who decided to plant their seed then vacate the premises is not apprehendable! What about the percentage of mothers who do EVERYTHING for their child with absolutely no support but the father is an educated, well paid individual who tells the mother to get an abortion because of the mere fact "he's not ready" cause he's not done partying and is 30 yrs old! Its not the unborn child's fault! If they both decided to have sex then they BOTH need to be prepared for what the consequences could possibly be and not just thrown upon the mother because she is the one carrying the child. Its ridiculous and disgusting that you would even make the statement you did about the pieces of crap that don't pay because "they didnt have a say in it."(whether the child being born or not) some people have a conscious when it comes to killing innocent things. And why should he have to get away with not paying so easy? Adoption shouldn't have to be an issue... both genders need to accept that the bottom line is, you play, you pay.

Frankly, I'm not going to get into the abortion debate with you.

I don't think YOU can choose for someone whether they can get an abortion any more than I think the sperm donor can choose for the egg donor.

Look at the other side of the story, there, caramelbunny. There are TONS of women that I know and have talked to who got pregnant deliberately to try to keep a man. That may have worked in the 60s and 70s, but it hasn't worked in at least 20 years now---and yet women keep doing it! Yet the men involved now have to pay for this child whether he's ready to be a parent--if SHE decides that SHE wants to be a parent, then he's stuck.

Let's put it this way: If he could better afford a child than she could, shouldn't HE get custody and SHE be paying child support? Isn't it in the child's best interests to have them stay with the parent that is better able to support the child? Yet time after time, judges award MOTHERS primary custody, especially if the parents were/are not married, simply because she gave birth to the child. When more fathers are awarded full custody because they WANT it, and children are taken from MOTHERS with no evidence of abuse, and those MOTHERS have to pay child support for kids they never see---well, then, maybe I'll feel better about the whole thing.

But in the meantime, I'm seeing too many great men screwed out of the chance to parent their children because the kids' moms are bitter that he's not with THEM anymore, and has moved on to a new woman--so they sucker him for every bit of child support they can get, and then find excuse after excuse why he can't see the kids, and on top of that, pours poison against the father into impressionable little ears.

I think it's reprehensible of YOU to judge all fathers by the same mold--every last dad I know that's paying child support would DIE to have more time with his kids, and is kept from it by his bitter, selfish ex-girlfriend. The point I was really trying to make is that he gets NO choice. He can't choose abortion, he can't choose adoption, and he can't choose parenting--he generally ONLY gets the option of being an every-other-weekend dad that pays half his check to a child that the kid's mom is trying to make hate him.

Frankly, I'm not going to get into the abortion debate with you.

I don't think YOU can choose for someone whether or not they can get an abortion any more than I think the sperm donor can choose for the egg donor.

Look at the other side of the story, there, caramelbunny. There are TONS of women that I know and have talked to who got pregnant deliberately to try to keep a man. That may have worked in the 60s and 70s, but it hasn't worked in at least 20 years now---and yet women keep doing it! Yet the men involved now have to pay for this child whether or not he's ready to be a parent--if SHE decides that SHE wants to be a parent, then he's stuck.

Let's put it this way: If he could better afford a child than she could, shouldn't HE get custody and SHE be paying child support? Isn't it in the child's best interests to have them stay with the parent that is better able to support the child? Yet time after time, judges award MOTHERS primary custody, especially if the parents were/are not married, simply because she gave birth to the child. When more fathers are awarded full custody because they WANT it, and children are taken from MOTHERS with no evidence of abuse, and those MOTHERS have to pay child support for kids they never see---well, then, maybe I'll feel better about the whole thing.

But in the meantime, I'm seeing too many great men screwed out of the chance to parent their children because the kids' moms are bitter that he's not with THEM anymore, and has moved on to a new woman--so they sucker him for every bit of child support they can get, and then find excuse after excuse why he can't see the kids, and on top of that, pours poison against the father into impressionable little ears.

I think it's reprehensible of YOU to judge all fathers by the same mold--every last dad I know that's paying child support would DIE to have more time with his kids, and is kept from it by his bitter, selfish ex-girlfriend. The point I was really trying to make is that he gets NO choice. He can't choose abortion, he can't choose adoption, and he can't choose parenting--he generally ONLY gets the option of being an every-other-weekend dad that pays half his check to a child that the kid's mom is trying to make hate him.



Now that's a little more understandable. But isn't it also reprehensible of YOU to judge all mothers by the same mold? It's a little personal and at heart to me because I couldn't get my daughters father to spend more than 6 hours with her and she'll be 2 next month. I would rather have him be a good father and role model for her than his measly 1600 a month. I can make that in a week. My point is that we were both responsible adults and now I'm the only one taking charge of the situation... I understand that there a wonderful fathers out there and I have 110% respect for them, but as for worthless boys that think they are ready then all of a sudden they back out,they ALL deserved to be locked up somewhere and tortured! Because that's what they are putting their children through!