I am a married man with two kids and nice wife..
I have a secretary at work, a young lady 12 years younger than me, an aspiring young woman, studying for MBA at nights, hard working, beautiful. I really like her very much and seeing her at work makes me smile and be grateful for meeting her. But I know, that being a good husband, I am not going to divorce or try to flirt with her, heck, I do not even know if she likes me - except for some occasional smiles - how can I be sure.. but there is something inside me that I cannot talk to her the way I normally do, and never tell her what I really think.. So its both great feeling to see her at office every day, see her smile.. and its so painful cause I know I never going to date her despite being probably in love with her.. Only thing I can is giving my secretary some gifts.. occasionally and get her nice thank you. After all years of marriage I never thought I would fell for another woman and even more, feel the pain of love. I know that we never going to make it and I know that our days in office are going to end in few months.. I wish her the best, yet I can't help but think how lucky is going to be her husband. And it is so sad that it I cannot even tell her what I really feel.

I know her pay is not that high and she is struggling to meet ends, MBA tuition and so on.. I would like to give her some cash, maybe help materially.. I don't know. Probably she would feel awkward.

Talk about bittersweetness, pain and joy of love when you even cannot admit it to yourself.

NO, and best yet, if this is a big office see about having her tansfered to another office ( perhaps with a raise, or a promotion)

You are starting down the slippery path, gifts( small) then money and so on.

If you can not go home and ask your wife if it is OK to give her this money, then it is wrong to do.

Its not love. It is a CRUSH. That is all. Crushes come and go. Do not act on it. That is my advice.

Crushes totally go away. This is NOT love.

Work on your marriage.

Cheating = lying. You'll be a liar and cheat... your life WILL be ruined... you WILL be financial torn into pieces... your kids will hate you...

forget about this and go seek marriage counseling NOW!! This is a huge red flag your marriage is failing.

But how you know the difference between love and crush? Besides, I think I can fall in love with another woman without cheating wife (ie without dating someone else) or telling the woman about that. How about keeping it all inside?

HI,
As a man 64 yrs old, married almost 29 yrs, I have worked around pretty ladies, been their supervisor in my working years, and am now retired.
Please DON'T give her anything... and I mean anything.
You like being married? Like your children? Like your life? Why take a chance on an "infatuation" with someone, when you have what most men already dream about... a loving wife and family.
If nothing else, go out somewhere, where no one else is around, and can't hear you, and just yell at a tree, scream if you want to... get it out of your system!
The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence... In your case, if your wife had any indication that you were feeling like this, you would possibly have done more damage than you can ever imagine.
Forget about her, forget about what she is trying to do with her life, and start thinking about your own life with your family. I do wish you the best, and good luck. Stay away from her, don't even send her a card.

You don't fall in love with someone you know nothing about. People at work are generally on their best behavior - love never happens before 6 months to a year.

This is lust/smitten.

This happened to my EX-brother in-law - he was generally a good guy... fell for a lady at his office... divorced my sister... His new wife?? An utter complete NIGHT-MARE!! He did not see all the problems and red-flags. He owes my suster alimony/child support... he wants to divorce the new wife after 2 kids. His first two kids hate him - they hate their step mom more.

Work on your current marriage - see a counsler with your wife and figure out what's wrong with you.

PLUS - IF THIS WOMEN IS NOT INTERESTED IN YOU THERE IS SEXUAL HARASSMENT. You will be in a lot deeper than you think - fired and probably divorced.

MY OLD SAYING AS WELL: NEVER DIP YOUR PEN IN THE COMPANY INK!! 85% of the time it turns out BAD!!

Mature real married men have lust in their hearts,what do they do about it ?Nothing,no gifts no money no way! I fully agree with one of the other guys who said if you can't tell your wife it must be wrong!:cool:

Jac,

I have read your post on this thread: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?p=40592#post40592

You and your wife had problems. She had a romantic email relationship with an old high school boyfriend. You were on the brink of divorce. She isn't intimate with you.

Can you then perhaps be directing the wrong feelings towards this secretary? You perhaps are seeking intermediacy, and looking for it in other places that your wife is not.

Are you still in counseling with your wife over the boyfriend issue? Did you ever go? If you haven't gone, you should. Discuss it, get it out in the open how you feel. You 2 can never patch things up if you cannot forgive her for what she did to you. And while you feel she cheated first, that doesn't make it right for you to consider doing a “love” relationship with no sex like your wife did.

And I doubt your love the secretary. It is lust, a crush, a fling. You find this women younger, vibrant, exciting, someone to replace the void in your life.

How can it be love you ask? You say that you can't seem to be yourself around her. You can't seem to be honest. How can you love someone and not be honest with them?

Yes, I think my marital problems may contributed to that. I can't be honest with the secretary, cause I can't tell her I like her that much. It's a business after all. She is a best secretary I ever seen, by the way. But she is also very smart and beautiful woman. Sometimes I think she guesses my feelings.

Since you're married... espcially head this: "Don't dip your pen into the company ink." - you can get fired, there is sexual harassment etc.

You seem real confused over this any way - like your not experienced in relationships.

Yes, I am not very experienced in relationships. I am sort of shy man, and always was afraid of rejection. At high school or college, there were nice girls I wanted to date, but I was rejected few times and had very painful experience. I loved once one college girl and really was ready for marriage with her, but it did not go that way, we broke. After 2 years I met my current wife and after a year working together and then dating for few months we married. I was always honest husband and never thought all these years about other women. However, a year ago my wife had some Internet affair with her high school boyfriend and I was quite shocked at that time. We almost had divorce and after many problems now it is settled down, but the whole thing made me rethink of what is a marriage and what are someone's duties in this institute.

Now I met this beautiful young lady and I just enjoy being together with her - not sexually, but just together. I do not know if she likes me, you never know and I never admitted to her that I like her, but I really like being together, talking to her, seeing her smile. Cause we work together in large office and I'm her boss, we cannot go out together openly and even never have lunch together (gossips, so on), but sometimes we have nice talk in office in evenings after work hours and she tells me about her life, student life and now MBA studies and other things and I give her on some occasion some nice gifts as expensive cosmetics or a mp3 player, or a some gift coupons. She was first very confused but now she accepts them. I asked if my presents make her feel uncomfortable but she said its OK. I explained to her that working together with her makes me happy, that's why I feel I owe her happy days in office, so it is just my way to return the favor and it seems she understands me. I do not know how and where it will develop from now, cause we both understand that there are boundaries we cannot cross. That's why I am a bit sad, cause I never can openly express my feelings to her.

My wife on the other hand is a busy businesswoman. She always has lunches with her business friends, and we NEVER go out together to parties - she says its boring to go there with me - and we have dinners togethers 1-2 times a year. We also have our Christmas parties separately. While it seemed strange to me first, now I sort of used to it. Our marital life is same - we are close only for 1-2 times a month, and she never kisses or allows me to kiss her. She does not allow me to touch or hug her as well, even in most innocent way. She sleeps in different bedroom and we meet only in evening after work. I love my wife and she is excellent mother for our kids, but man, do I miss occasional warm or putting my hand on her shoulder - I never did for many many years. So I miss some human touch or occasional smile, you know. After working in glass, cold office I return to my home and sit alone in front of a computer or watch some football games at night alone, while my son sits in front of his notebook in his room and daughter plays her dolls in another room. On weekends, I bring home my work and write the reports (today is Sunday and I have two reports to write, btw). My wife has her tennis session with her friends and she is not home for whole Sunday. But I am used to it.

The only time we are together with wife in a living room is when we watch American Idol, so it is like 2 hours 2per week and never more (and once per year watching Grammy awards). So this is my family life. Well, I have a nice beautiful wife, nice kids, nice job, I am not whining. But I do miss a human touch, a occasional smile, a touch of a hand, a smile, a hug. I did everything right in my life, and is it my award for it, I do not know.

And also I want to add I do enjoy hearing about how the girl is studying, about her challenges on work, learning, the struggle to find a good room near university and close to office and so on. I think she is doing awesome job and I am very impressed by her desire and will. I had that all (graduate school, tuition problems and etc) so long ago I already forgot how it feels, how hard it can be. I forgot that all. But I now recall them and that creates a sympathy to the girl, who is now doing that all. I do recall how hard it can be and if my gifts, while a small thing, can enlighten her day, I feel good. I did a good thing. A poor graduate student cannot afford expensive cosmetics, but I can afford to give her it as a gift and she likes it. So I feel good as well. Not that my gifts are required, but still I am happy she accepts them.

There is another reason I can't admit to the girl that I like her - I fear rejection. I remember how painful it used to be and I do not want repetition of that. She is so beautiful that she ought to have someone already, she has a lot of calls and messages coming to her (which are not business-related). Yet, she spends few hours after work chatting with me and I am grateful, u know.

I know that MBA difficulties are nothing compared to real business. So I want her to succeed in business. I gave her a lot of additional materials to read and learn, some CD-ROMS and books. I also ask her to participate in the workshops which could be useful for business. I do not want her to have difficult time in business after her MBA graduation so I try to help her as much as I can to prepare for business career. She will become an awesome and quite feared boss, I feel, she is so good and excellent organizer, quite strict. Well, so it be. Still business can be sometimes so soulless and routine and I fear someday her beautiful smile may disappear because she may face so many difficulties on her job as a manager, for example. So I have to train her well. It is for her own good. I want to be sure she will succeed and I will do whatever I can to help her in her professional advancement, she deserves it. Only thing I can't help is her private life. But that's not for me. I only fear that her future husband (whoever he will be - he will be very lucky guy, he will get an awesome young lady!) may cause her troubles and underappreciate her. But I can't help. That's up to her. Though I am sure she will find a good husband, she is too smart to fail.

You talk a lot about a cute office chick but in all that long drawn out story you didn't say anything about how you approach you wife and marriage, other than let her do what she wants, while needy you stays home and sits on the pity pot needing attention, and she goes about her business.Did I miss anything?Don't expect me to feel sorry for your home life, your fault there,For one thing she'd only call me boring once,wouldn't see me again till.. For one thing I'd have friends to golf with and fishing, bowling, did I mention Friday poker! That right, she would have to cancel a few thins to babysit her kids while my boring butt is out doing something besides working and watching her come in after an evening of fun.YOU two need to talk big time and get a little equity in this relationship so any little pretty thang can't come along and distract you from working on your relationship with your wife!She is your wife for heavens sake ,you should be able to talk to her about any thing under the sun,unless she's the boss and you just obey her rules.At least you haven't started any thing with this female at work that would be a disaster for your marriage.Talk to you wife and straighten this mess out:cool:

Hi,
You are "flirting" with Divorce.
How would your wife feel about this situation? Have you talked with her about it?
If you really have a "close" marriage, and an honest one, get your wife's feelings about what you should do. Talking with her will show you that you are not trying to do something your wife does not approve of.
There are excuses after excuses of why someone might want out of a marriage; I sincerely hope you will talk with your wife.

He is obvously not close to his wife, it sounds like he really wants to be. It sounds like the wife does not want to be close to him. So they are both to blame if his account is true. Do not put all the blame on one person.

Joe

You talk a lot about a cute office chick but in all that long drawn out story you didn't say anything about how you approach you wife and marriage, other than let her do what she wants, while needy you stays home and sits on the pity pot needing attention, and she goes about her business.Did I miss anything? ...For one thing I'd have friends to golf with and fishing, bowling, did I mention Friday poker! That right, she would have to cancel a few thins to babysit her kids while my boring butt is out doing something besides working and watching her come in after an evening of fun.

Well, I do my friends, Friday beer and so on. So that's not the point, and on Sundays I also do enjoy the outings and so on. However, its hard to describe our family relationship. I am a honest husband and always was. I let her do whatever she wants, she is a reasonable person, so I do not expect her to do crazy or nasty things. But we live in separate worlds, only connection are kids. Maybe when kids will grow up, we'll separate. Almost nothing connects us, except some occasional intimacy. She never asks me to accompany her and whenever I ask her, she always rejects my suggestion. So I stopped asking her. We rarely talk. Sometimes we go together to her father's home and you would think we are one happy family. As soon as we leave his house, her smile disappears and again you can see cold expression on her face, emotionless and calm. Not that she hates me, but she probably is not in love with me either. I am honest person, but few last years the distance between grew and I am not anymore attached as strongly as I used to, when I believed she is a honest wife (which was only partially true). This is our family life. I do not try to make her life hell and let her do her things her way.

He is obvously not close to his wife, it sounds like he really wants to be. It sounds like the wife does not want to be close to him. So they are both to blame if his account is true. Do not put all the blame on one person.

Joe

Yes, I wanted to be close to her. Maybe its my fault. When we were younger, we had a lot of disputes about money, kids education and her relatives she used to support with our family income. Then I found about her virtual flirt and some real gifts from her boyfriend. We were on brink of divorce. Now we are one family, for better or for worse. It is for kids, I guess. Both of us probably would separate in a second, if not kids.

Jac,

You both need to go to marriage counseling immedidately to see if you can work out your differences. It sounds like there is total lack of communication here.

Counseling is to try improve your siyuation - its not a bad thing.

Office romance is a tricky thing. I've seen many times where some is attracted to some one and the other person is not at all - it makes a sticky situation. Usually they go very bad.

You need to communicate with your wife - you both should go some where quitet - bedroom? Lie and talk - talk about what is REALLY on your minds. I beat $1 million she is holding back a ton!! A ton of things that you do that annoy her to no end - things you don't think about.

Wildcat, you do not allow a possibility that love between people may disappear - naturally, due to various reasons - similarly to a way it is born. I do understand your logic. Communication is meaningless if there is no more feelings to communicate. I respect my wife very much and I am sure I loved her. But I am not that sure anymore. If the office surrounding does make you feel uncomfortable, as it makes me, for the relationship I am ready to give up my office career. In fact, maybe it is a just final straw. I do not want to give up my dream. In my whole life, I tell you, I never had a chance to meet such a beautiful girl I do now. OK, I give up my job, my family cause I want to be free in my choices. I do not want to listen to anyone. It is my life. I live only once. I have no regrets. I never valued career path that much. I do have my academic degree no one can take from me, which took me almost 10 years to earn and I am sure I will not beg on streets. I am almost sure that it won't go fine and I probably will be rejected by the girl. But who cares about me more than I do? My kids are grown up. My marriage was quite early one, I was 24 and my wife 20 and we married cause she got pregnant. As a true gentleman, of course I married her. We lived happily for 15 years. Now I just do not feel any more happiness. But I deeply respect my wife and what she did for me, raising beautiful kids. But she is so so cold to me. I want normal human relations, not talking to an ice queen. And this is something I do not get anymore

Jac, that;s interesting. Ughhhhhhh - now the story unfolds - wish you shared this earlier.

That's WAY too young to marry.

Well, if you feel it's unfixable, you know what to do. You only live once, I am one who feels you have to make yourself happy first - you do have to take care of your kids though - they are #1 until grown - don't lose their respect.

But, you're in a situation I don't envy and I would get out of it. Remember tough, you will need support your kids.

I don't think your in a life right now that anyone would want to be 'stuck' in.

What may happen is, if you tell your wife how unhappy you are... things may change... she may open up.

But how you know the difference between love and crush? Besides, I think I can fall in love with another woman without cheating wife (ie without dating someone else) or telling the woman about that. How about keeping it all inside?


You can't "fall in love with another woman" without it leading somewhere. See what your doing is trying to convince yourself that you can be in love with this person and not have it lead anywhere. That's the first mistake. If you convince yourself of this it will lead you down the wrong path. My advice just don't give her anything and try to distance yourself from her. To me it sounds like this is more of a crush and a thrill than love. Besides if your in love with someone it should be your wife and not some chick at your office. If you aren't in love with your wife you need to address those issues.

You can't "fall in love with another woman" without it leading somewhere. See what your doing is trying to convince yourself that you can be in love with this person and not have it lead anywhere. Thats the first mistake. ... Besides if your in love with someone it should be your wife

That's exactly my dilemma. I have a wife I feel do not love anymore and who really does not care much about me as well, and I want to love another woman and then she (if she loves me as well) should be my wife. It is painful both to part and start everything from scratch and I am risking losing everything. Yet, I feel strange and so strong attraction to that woman, and I feel she knows it, I do not know for sure, though

That's I am risking my whole life, family and career and I have to make my choice. Never seen anything that painful.

I suggest you talk to your wife about the lack of intimacy and warmth in your relationship. Should you both decide that you need to separate or divorce then you can of course go out and see whom you please. Tell your wife that you have been feeling lonely. See if she has any input on the matter. If you two don't talk then you will never know.

Confused hit it on the head... that's the next step.

I get why/how couples stop communicating. If something's wrong - SAY IT!!

I am going to have a talk with my wife. Not so much about the girl - its maybe a crush after all; maybe she hates me I do not know; but that I can't imagine our family life to go on like for much longer -I feel so damn lonely, on Sundays I drive alone, have a lunch at a restaurant, do some shopping - all alone. Its getting pretty lonely. And can't go like that any more and certainly can't see the rest of my life spent this way.
Yes, I want to date the girl, my secretary. If my position as a boss and me being in a same company makes her feel uncomfortable so we even can't have lunch together - well I am ready to change it. For her, its better to stay with company. I got some proposals on promotion to another company. It will be hard for me to leave my company after 15 years of work, but hey, fresh start, fresh challenge. And since we no longer will in same company and no longer will be tied by office culture we can meet probably. And if my wife understands me, she will give me perhaps freedom from the ties. I am going to miss kids, but we still can meet.

And being free, I can try to date the girl.

Right now, I am looking for some jewellery gifts for her. It was nice to shop around for that.

You need to talk with your wife now. Today - go to your bedroom - both of you lie down and TALK - let it ALL out - AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LISTEN TO HER!! Please listen to her!!

I just wanted to say how things ended. I did not leave the company; I found that my secretary, for better or worse, had a boyfriend of her age, and very soon after I asked the question here she got pregnant and married the guy. I think it was great and their family looks very nice. We divorced as my wife after all got her old boyfriend back (or he got her back), and our marriage was already in shambles by that time. Papers are being filed right now, but the actual divorce happened almost year ago, we just had agreed everything (on paper) and had no disagreements on anything. Kids now live with her and I see them every other week. My secretary after giving birth and looking after her kid for some time is back at work in my office and she is as nice to me as before and so am I. Good girl. Now I am officially alone. I tried dating someone, ended being informed that she has a boyfriend and got a suggestion to become friends. But that's whole another story