I have a tenant who is in a month-to-month tenancy and has given written notice that she will be moving. She seems to think she has until May 5th to move (I think she is thinking she has until the late fee date). If she is not out by the end of the month, am I correct in that she would owe for the entire next month?

She owes through the date of the notice. You need to WRITE her, accept her notice and give her any pro-rated rent she owes through her notice date AND you need to give her your check-out instructions on how to arrange any inspection, return keys, etc.

Cville is correct, if she stays past the end of the rental period, she owes a pro-rated portion of the rental. And you need to inform her of this immediately.

The notice is dated March 31st. In the notice she indicates her "move out date" will be by May 5th. So if she moves May 5th, she'll owe for 5 days of May, correct? I didn't know I had to write to acknowledge the notice.. . Thanks!

You wouldn't have to normally, though it's a good idea and you should schedule a walkthru. But in this case, you want to make sure she knows she owes the pro-rated rent. She may decide to move up her move-out.

So if she stays past April 30th (a late fee is required after the 5th day of the month according to the lease), do I ask her to pay the entire month, then when she moves I refund a pro-rated portion?

This is a great forum! Thank you for all your help!

Um You asked the last question as Unregistered, are you Kenitorico or is this a different question?

If you are the OP (original poster), please log in, in the future. But to answer your question, you can bill her for the prorated amount.

Oops! I guess it's no secret that I'm new here, LOL. I'm also a new landlord. So you'll probably be hearing from me again.

Again, thanks loads!

There is a link at the top of this forum to local laws. If you are a new landlord you should familiarize yourself with them before you enter into a new lease. With someone.

I must disagree with other posters... (tell me if I'm wrong please)

If your tenant is on a month to month and occupies the premises for anytime during the month of May... then since a new lease started on the 1st of the month... it would not end until the 30th... after all.. it's not a day to day lease... thus the tenant would be responsible for the entire month. I know this is not true in some states... but true in most.

Generally courts will look the landlord's losses in deciding this. If he can't get a tenant because of those 5 days, they might hold the tenant responsible for the whole month. But most of the time it will be prorated. The point being notice. As long as sufficient notice was given.

Can you point to any statute that says if occupancy stretches into a part of a rental period the tenant is responsbile for the whole period?

Hello:

I agree with LILL and the OP. Her rental runs in 30 day increments. Not 30 days and then a little bit more...

excon

I will explain to her that if she remains after April 30th, she may be obligated to pay the entire month's rent if I'm not able to locate a suitable tenant for the remainder of the month. Fyi: I'm in PA

I had another tenant that moved early last month due to health reasons. I was able to get the apartment rented with just a week or so gap. Therefore, as a courtesy (or so I thought), I rebated a pro-rated portion of their rent back. Whether the law requires it or not, I do think I have a moral obligation to do so. But I don't want my tenants to think they can stay for extra days and not pay for them.

Thanks to all!

This is just something that I came across... no idea where OP lives... but it clearly states that tenant can not withhold premises without penalty after required notice is given. In the case of a month to month tenancy... would not that imply from the 1st to the 30th? Tenant can not make up law to suit his needs. Clearly a month to month is just that... not a "month to "just a little" over a month" notice.

MISSISSIPPI CODE OF 1972
As Amended

SEC. 89-7-25. Tenant holding after notice liable for double rent.

When a tenant, being lawfully notified by his landlord, shall fail or refuse to quit the demised premises and deliver up the same as required by the notice, or when a tenant shall give notice of his intention to quit the premises at a time specified, and shall not deliver up the premises at the time appointed, he shall, in either case, thenceforward pay to the landlord double the rent which he should otherwise have paid, to be levied, sued for, and recovered as the single rent before the giving of notice could be; and double rent shall continue to be paid during all the time the tenant shall so continue in possession.


SOURCES: Codes, 1857, ch. 41, art. 23; 1871, Sec. 1642; 1880, Sec. 1331; 1892, Sec. 2545; 1906, Sec. 2883; Hemingway's 1917, Sec. 2381; 1930, Sec. 2225; 1942, Sec. 947.

Also... since most landlords rent from the 1st to the 30th, wouldn't landlord suffer some sort of monetary damages since tenant refuses to leave until the 5th?. thus not being able to re-rent until the 15th or 1st of following month??

Hi LILL,
No I don't think that covers it. If the OP's tenant stayed AFTER May 5th, then that statute would apply. But the tenant has given the OP a date by which she will leave. That statute doesn't deal with whether the vacate date has to coincide with the rental period.

I do agree that the extra 5 days, might inhibit the landlord getting a tenant to move in on the next day. And, in that case, might leave the tenant liable.

Hi Scott,

While I completely understand your point, I still must disagree. A month to month tenancy is just that. Monthly lease starts on the 1st... ends on the 30th. Tenant is essentially starting her new lease on the 1st of May, moving out on the 5th... thus starting a new lease yet not completing or paying for the lease term.

I don't think the law supports you. Just as a landlord can't double dip, charge you for time he rents to someone else, neither can he charge you for time you didn't occupy the premises as long as you give notice properly. I don't know of any statute that states notice has be given to conicide with the rental period.

I must disagree with other posters...(tell me if I'm wrong please)

If your tenant is on a month to month and occupies the premises for anytime during the month of May...then since a new lease started on the 1st of the month...it would not end until the 30th...after all..it's not a day to day lease....thus the tenant would be responsible for the entire month. I know this is not true in some states...but true in most.

It depends on the landlord, I think. Most landlords like to start and stop monthly rentals on the 1st and 30th/31st, but there's nothing illegal about running a lease from the 7th to the 7th, or any other day of the month, if they want to. Or they can prorate the next tenant's first month and start charging the full amount on the 1st of the next month if they want. I've actually had that happen several times, when I move to a new town for a job. I'll need an apartment on the 23rd of the month, for example, and most of the time they have just prorated that month's rent based on the monthly amount.

Hello again:

This from Washington state landlord/tenant law:

"(1)(a) When premises are rented for an indefinite time, with monthly or other periodic rent reserved, such tenancy shall be construed to be a tenancy from month to month, or from period to period on which rent is payable, and shall be terminated by written notice of twenty days or more, preceding the end of any of the months or periods of tenancy, given by either party to the other."

I think this law supports LILL's, mine and the OP's contention regarding the periods of tenancy - at least in this state.

excon

I have to disagree. What the statute says is that the tenancy is for a rental period and notification has to be made 20 days prior to the end of the rental period. It doesn't say anything about or deal with the termination date being beyond the end of the period. So, as long as notice is given 20 days pripr to the end of the rental period, the landlord could prorate the overage.

It doesn't say anything about or deal with the termination date being beyond the end of the period. Hello again, Scott:

No, it doesn't. That's my point. It discusses what lawful notice is. And, lawful notice here is measured from the END of the rental period. 20 or 30 days matters not, because the measurement is taken from the END.

That tells me that the lawmakers wanted to make sure that notice and the rental period ENDED on the same day.

Therefore, in my view, any notice that doesn't end when the rental period ends, isn't lawful.

excon

Hello again, Scott:

No, it doesn't. That's my point. It discusses what lawful notice is. And, lawful notice here is measured from the END of the rental period. 20 or 30 days matters not, because the measurement is taken from the END.

That tells me that the lawmakers wanted to make sure that notice and the rental period ENDED on the same day.

Therefore, in my view, any notice that doesn't end when the rental period ends, isn't lawful.

excon

Just curious... do you also think that the landlord couldn't legally rent the apartment on May 6th? Like, if they closed on an empty rental property on the 2nd, would they legally have to let it sit vacant until the 1st of the next month before they could rent it?

But you are missing my point. You are equating occupancy with rental period. My point is that the statute you cite (or any I have seen) states that occupancy has to coincide with rental period.

Found this Minnesota law... also found that this law applies in most states with the exception of Florida, Texas & Calif.

Minnesota landlord/tenant law

For Periodic Tenancies
If there is no provision in the lease stating how much advance notice must be given to end the tenancy, the law says that written notice must be received by the other party at least one full rental period before the tenancy's last day. This means the day before the last rent payment is due. Minn. Stat. §504.06 (1992); Oesterreicher v. Robertson, 187 Minn. 497, 245 N.W. 825 (1932).

For example, if a tenant who pays rent on the first day of each month (in a month-to-month periodic tenancy) wishes to leave at the end of June, the tenant must inform the landlord of that fact in writing on or before May 31. This is because May 31 is one day before the June rental period begins. No matter when during June the tenant actually leaves, the tenant is responsible for the entire month's rent. If the tenant misses the proper notice deadline - even by a day - the tenant is liable for paying an extra month's rent (July in this case).

The proper notice provision holds true for the landlord as well. If the landlord wants to end the tenancy, he or she must give the tenant advance written notice at least one day before that last rental period begins. If the landlord misses the deadline, the tenancy is automatically extended for another month. Minn. Stat. §504.06 (1992); Oesterreicher v. Robertson, 187 Minn. 497, 245 N.W. 825 (1932).

LILL,

But that's still not the issue. We aren't talking about notice. We are talking about occupancy. Under the law you cite If I wanted to move out June 15. And my rental period was the calendar month, then I would have to give notice by April 30. Having done so, I have satisfied the requirement "that written notice must be received by the other party at least one full rental period before the tenancy's last day". If I gave notice on May 15, I would still be liable for the full month of June. Because I didn't give sufficient notice.

But in the case of the OP, the tenant gave one full rental period's notice. I suspect her new accommodations would not be ready until the 5th or 6th so she couldn't vacate until then. Or maybe she wanted to give herself a cushion or planned to move over a couple of days. The reason doesn't matter. The point is she gave the minimum notice required. But nothing in any of the statutes you or excon have cited refer to vacancy date. All they refer to is how much notice needs to be given prior to the vacancy date. A tenant can always advise the landlord of their intention to terminate the lease or rental agreement (whether written or unwritten) before they have to. The only time the tenant would owe past their vacancy date is if they didn't give sufficient notice. But if the vacancy date is after the point of notice, then the landlord should pro-rate the rental.