----------------- Bulletin Message -----------------


"Rep. Wesselhoft said the proposed bill will also include provisions designed to bring about an eventual ban of pit bull dogs in the state.
The grandfather clause contained in the bill would allow for the continuing existence of pit bulls currently in Oklahoma. However, pit bull owners would have to have the dogs spayed or neutered, and the animals would need regular rabies shots.
In addition, a pit bull owner would have to be age 21 or older and would be required to have a $100,000 liability insurance policy on every pit bull.
Also, each pit bull would have to be tattooed or otherwise marked when it is registered with the state. Owners would not be able to sell or transfer the dogs to other individuals in Oklahoma, excluding family members. And a person living in Oklahoma will not be able to bring in a new pit bull from out of state.
After those pit bulls that are allowed to remain in Oklahoma under the grandfather clause of the proposed bill die of old age, Wesselhoft said there should be very few pit bulls remaining in the state, if any."

Hi,
I fully agree with what you have posted. Responsibility of Pitt Bull owners have to be enforceable by law. There are too many documented cases, United States wide, of injuries and harm caused by this breed of dog.

I agree that people should take responsibility for their animals however this affects the ones who never caused any harm also. That's just like someone coming up to me and saying " off to the electric chair miss. we have too many brunettes burning down houses." Why should everyone else have to suffer? If people would learn not to train these dogs to be mean then it wouldn't be that way.

You know what. Hear in Canada, Province of Ontario. Our Liberal government put a bill through to completely ban them all together. That all owners will have to turn them in. Complete ban because in the last three years there have been many children killed to death or mulled by one.

Yes, the owners need to take responsibility as well. As well as proper training.

What do you think about this?

Proper insurance and responsibility is so important, There are more types of dogs that need similar control and stricter laws for those who's "pets" attack people.

I was bitten by one some years ago, the owner of the pet denied owning the dog. The chain by the side of the house, the pet dish by the door and the dog... in the yard was just non related.
The police could do nothing since they could not prove he actually owned the dog. The dog had to be destroyed because the owner would not take responsibility.

I did sue them in civil court and won, but they had no money, and no insurance, so I got nothing anyway.

Electric chair.No,no! We need you here on AMHD :D
Here in the UK pit bull's make me uneasy,even when on a lead.I'd hate one to take a "likeing" to my arm,or worse.I have four cats,and love animals,but certain species,which are basically hunting animals,as pets?

This whole thing just saddens my heart that a breed of dog will be eventually be destroyed because of bad people.


Why can we not just ban bad people?

This whole thing just saddens my heart that a breed of dog will be eventually be destroyed because of bad people.




Maybe it has something to do with the fact that we rarely, if ever, hear about crazed poodles or labs tearing a child apart.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that we rarely, if ever, hear about crazed poodles or labs tearing a child apart.

Still sad,

Agree with Need.A pit bull is bred to hunt.Why own a dangerus animal.Just stick to faithful fido.

Agree with Need.A pit bull is bred to hunt.Why own a dangerus animal.Just stick to faithful fido. You're right but I also agree with them that often the problem lies in the reason behind the owner selecting that breed of dog (the pit bull). Often it's because they are an individual on the fringe of society who want to either appear tough. The hefty insurance fee is designed to weed out that particular type of owner.

Originally Posted by Nez
Agree with Need.A pit bull is bred to hunt.Why own a dangerus animal.Just stick to faithful fido.

I have a fido, Miss Piggy a pit-bull, she had a sad life of mistreatment, by not so nice people it is not the breeds fault. If we made the people that breed these dogs for this do hard time for real, rather than releasing the with a mister meaner offence. Take the house the car and what ever else they own this would stop. It is sad,

Pit bulls don't have to be dangerous if they have proper owners.

The problem is, even 5 bad owners means 5 cases of death or mutilation, and even 1 is really unacceptable.

As Joe said, here in Ontario, our government has banned pit bulls all together. Was it the right decision? Well, with all the cases we had, I say yes. If we could simply just get rid of the bad owners, that would have been better, but that is kind of impossible to do.

I agree that people who mistreat animals should be locked up,and the key thrown away.All I'm saying is that to me a pit bull is not the sort of dog that I believe should be a house pet.As you say,your dog was rescued,so I applaud you for that.But the fact remains they can/are a breed which can prove tricky.If you are an experienced handler,who understands the pit bull 100%,then you are wonderful.But,neglected,and mistreated,they can/will turn nasty.For me,a pit bull is a no-no.I have a five year old son,often he asks,can we have a pet dog? We have four cats,so it's out of the question now.If we had no cats,would I buy a pit bull.No way.

Pit bulls don’t have to be dangerous if they have proper owners.

The problem is, even 5 bad owners means 5 cases of death or mutilation, and even 1 is really unacceptable.

As Joe said, here in Ontario, our government has banned pit bulls all together. Was it the right decision? Well, with all the cases we had, I say yes. If we could simply just get rid of the bad owners, that would have been better, but that is kind of impossible to do.



You are right, and if you spent time in the shelter as I do watching these dos that are good dog, tested as safe, put to sleep because people are afraid of them, it breaks my heart, I have played with them spent time with them. I took them out walked them. Thousands of them are put to sleep each year because of dog fighting and these pits never ever not once ever fought a fight. They are only fighting for their life. So in a shelter they have 30, 60, 90, 120 days to find a home. Simply because of intercity meanness. as I will try hard to not look at this post again.



We sat and answered question here on this forum a month ago, to a person that was asking dog fighting question in a round about, we all answered him and helped him out. To the one that answered him including myself, we are all part of the problem.



Red flag Questions that have been answered on this site.

Thing that should alert you that something is not right would be questions asking about

Red Cell is a food supplement used by fighters to increase the stamina of a fighting dog. Also used for race horses

Tread mills used to build up mussel and stamina.
Sled or weight pulling used to build up mussel and stamina.

Weight question, how to put weight on my dog.

Breeding of Pit bull

Blood line questions; pertain to older dog such the gator blood line,


Any one who owns a pit-bull that is a good dog owner will do their best, to maintain a positive image with their dog, and will not flaunt them with big collar and such to draw attention to them in a negative way. Miss Piggy our pit-bull has toured with our giniea pig rescue and equine rescue, trying her little heart out to change the stereo type of this killer breed.

I agree that people who mistreat animals should be locked up,and the key thrown away.All I'm saying is that to me a pit bull is not the sort of dog that I believe should be a house pet.As you say,your dog was rescued,so I applaud you for that.But the fact remains they can/are a breed which can prove tricky.If you are an experianced handler,who understands the pit bull 100%,then you are wonderful.But,neglected,and mistreated,they can/will turn nasty.For me,a pit bull is a no-no.I have a five year old son,often he asks,can we have a pet dog? We have four cats,so it's out of the question now.If we had no cats,would I buy a pit bull.No way.

1 have 1 bunny 2 cats 32 guinea pigs in my home the cat and bunny free roam with the dog, even when I am not home, no dead bodies here, in my small animal rescue. (O:

I agree that a lot has to do with the way the dog is trained. PitBulls by nature are more of an aggressive breed. But that doesn't mean that they all will attack someone.
The problem is that most dog owners that own a PitBull never have it properly trained and they become dangerous.
I don't blame the dog because there are dogs like Rotties and Dobermans that are more naturally aggressive also but not all of them will hurt someone.
People who don't take responsibility for there pets shouldn't be allowed to own them. Too many people are getting attacked many of them children and its all due to poor responsibility on the owners

This is absolutely useless stupidity. Ban Pit Bulls, and the idiots will go to Dobes, Rotts, Shepherds, etc. What we need are laws that puts people with dogs trained to be vicious in jail. Your dog injures somebody, you do time.

Excellent idea.

That's interesting that Ontario has banned pit bulls all together. They are still allowed in my province, but where I live we have something called a "Dangerous Dog" Bylaw. There is a list of breeds that are considered dangerous (I imagine pitbulls, rottweilers, dobermans, etc are on the list), and people owning those breeds need a special license on top of the usual dog license, must spay or neuter their dogs, and of course not allow their dogs to run free. It is also against the law to have any more than 2 "dangerous dogs" per household. Breeding is banned unless you are a board certified breeder. There are stiff penalties for any infringement of these laws. Recently a little girl was mauled in a town close to here, by a rottweiler/german shephard cross. The dog was never dangerous prior to this. The owner of the dog had 5 dogs, not sure what breeds, but they were all destroyed.

That's very unfortunate. For the owner of those dogs and very sad for the little girl and her family. Why were the other dogs put down when they weren't the dogs who did the attack? Unfortunately I think these laws are in place because although unfair, no one can tell who has a dangerous dog or not. By not letting them run free , etc. No one knows what a dog is capable of until it attacks someone, that's why breeds end up getting such a bad rap. But I don't agree with putting a dog down when it didn't attack anyone, that's wrong.

Here in Ct, during the summer there was a couple that had two little boys and a golden retriever. The dog had attacked there tfour year old son while he was playing outside in the yard for whtever reason. Then the dog two weeks later attacked the two year old. All the reasons that were given were unprovoked. The dog ended up being put down because of the attacks. But it makes you wonder why the dog became aggressive all of a sudden, Supposedly these people had the dog for about five years. But if anything it just proves the point that it doesn't have to do with a breed but maybe with just the individual dog or maybe this dog had been abused. You just never know. But it was a Golden Retriever, how many of those do you hear attacking people?

My sister has two pit bulls and an akita. They're all sweeties. One of her pits is extremely protective of her family, but even when it comes down to it, she's a chicken and would never fight. This is a really sad thing that's going on. It's my firm opinion that it has so much more to do with the owner than the dog in situations like these. Although, in cases like the post above mine, who is to blame? When a dog that has always been so nice and loving that all of the sudden attacks his own family. That certainly is cause for alarm. But it isn't a breed specific occurrence either. I, too, think that people who breed pits for aggressive traits will just turn to other "aggressive" dogs. Really, you can take a dog of a breed with a reputation of being family friendly and turn it into a fighter. Obviously, these laws are being passed by people that are afraid of what they don't understand.

That's very unfortunate. For the owner of those dogs and very sad for the little girl and her family. Why were the other dogs put down when they weren't the dogs who did the attack? Unfortunately I think these laws are in place because although unfair, no one can tell who has a dangerous dog or not. By not letting them run free , etc. No one knows what a dog is capable of until it attacks someone, that's why breeds end up getting such a bad rap. But I don't agree with putting a dog down when it didn't attack anyone, that's wrong.

Apparently, the man who owned the dogs was a next door neighbor, and one of the dogs was pulling a sleigh with the little girl in it (who was 2, I just found out!). The sleigh went by the attacking dog and that's when he bit her in face. She was in the backyard with all 5 dogs, and I assume not much supervision! The other dogs were put down because their shots weren't up to date, and there was a question of rabies. The dog that did attack her was kept alive for rabies testing. When the testing was over and came back negative, the dog was put down too.

I think it was awfully stupid on the part of the owner and the parents of the little girl, allowing such a little child in the backyard with 5 big dogs! Like what were they thinking? :confused:


But it was a Golden Retriever, how many of those do you hear attacking people?

Yes exactly! We have a yellow lab, and we didn't have to get the special licensing for him. However if we mistreated him or let the child we're expecting kick or tease him or be mean, etc, he might attack too. Of course we'd never do that, and I strongly believe in supervision for little kids with dogs, for both the dogs and the child's protection. My dog is also in obedience classes. I don't think any breed should automatically be labeled "dangerous".

Your right Orange, that was really stupid on the parents fault for not keeping an eye on the little girl, and she was 2? Anytime you have a young child with bigger dogs especially more than one dog you need to keep an eye out beecause you don't know what can happen. Being a mother this would have been just common sense since it would be dealing with dogs that were'nt mine.

There was another situation like this that happened here a few weeks ago. The dog didn't attack the child but it was an accident and this is just to prove the point why children need to be supervised with big dogs.

A little girl had been playing with her aunts dog in the backyard of her aunts house, I think the girl was four. She had been wearing a scarf, what happened was the dog had been playing with her and grabbed the end of the scarf and dragged her aroung the yard. She wasn't able to get the scarf off while this was happening and the dog ended up choking her to death. I believe this dog was a German shepard.
But because no one was keeping an eye on the little girl this unfortunate accident happened.

I was browsing www.avma.org and found this: http://www.avma.org/issues/policy/dangerous_animal_legislation.asp

''The AVMA supports dangerous animal legislation by state, county, or municipal governments provided that legislation does not refer to specific breeds or classes of animals. This legislation should be directed at fostering safety and protection of the general public from animals classified as dangerous.''

I agree labman... it shouldn't be based on breed! Dogs are like people IMO. There are good and bad in every breed. ;)

OMG though... there was another dog attack in my province. This time a Rottweiler and a 5 year old. The 5 year was supervised, and had played with the dog before, but he and the dog were "fighting" over a ball and he was attacked on his arms, legs and torso. It was just on the evening news.

a little girl had been playing with her aunts dog in the backyard of her aunts house, I think the girl was four. She had been wearing a scarf, what happened was the dog had been playing with her and grabbed the end of the scarf and dragged her aroung the yard. She wasn't able to get the scarf off while this was happening and the dog ended up choking her to death. I beleive this dog was a German shepard.
But because no one was keeping an eye on the little girl this unfortunate accident happened.

Ugh that's a horrible story... like an episode of CSI almost... blah. And so pointless. If she'd been properly watched, it never would have happened.

You know, this has me thinking... I live in an agricultural area, and I know a lot about cows, pigs and horses. You would NEVER leave your small child alone and unsupervised with those animals... horses, for example, can be very unpredictable, and could kill a child. So what's the difference, with a big dog? Actually parents should be careful of any animal capable of seriously harming or killing a child! I'm even going to supervise my child with our cat, so the cat doesn't hurt the baby, and the baby doesn't torture the cat... my friend's cat scratched her baby so bad that the child has a permanent scar on his cheek. Yet we never hear about a "dangerous cat" bylaw!

Try searching on the internet for all dog attacks and see what the statistics are. People are more likely to report a bite by a pitbull because they are already scared of them because of the people who train them to fight or just don't train them at all. Take a look at how many other types of dogs attack. How come when humans commit crimes we look at how they were raised and how they were treated and we look for reasons they have become a problem as individuals. And then when a dog attacks or bites you all just say they are bread to be hunters or fighters. If the dog is raised to be a family dog it will be a family dog. If a dog is mistreated and abused, chances are that it will be aggressive, no matter what type of breed. There are no bans on white people because some white people are murderers. I just think that all dogs can attack and bite. It depends on how they are raised. And pitbulls are not more likely to attack than any other breed of dog.

Somebody started a thread asking a technical question on the Ontario ban. Unless there is a long term decrease in dog bite cases, I think that law should be repealed. Those that think it will do any good please raise your hands?

What they are are high energy dogs with not enough spent aggression. People think that having a big yard is enough and you don't need to walk a dog, WRONG! Pits as well as other high energy dogs need walks/runs to use up their energy and calm them down. It's even sadder that the breed is taking the heat and not the owners. I've come across meaner pomeranians and poodles and have been scratched and bitten by more cats than the law should allow.

I own a black chow, who is also a breed with a bad rep. I've had her since she was a tiny black ball of fur, she's now 9 years old and she is a powder puff! Never bitten anyone. She gets along beautifully with my Golden Retriever who is 8 and the new puppy who is 2 months old. I have a very young pit bull mix that I'm working with now. The minute she starts to show aggression I take her out to play and then for a run, the aggression or crying is the only way they have of communicating that they need something. Be it a walk, water, food, or to relieve themselves. At this age she may still be missing the comfort of her mother so I snuggle her in a blankie until she's asleep and put her down. I also have a thick rubber Kong especially for puppies that I stuff with treats occasionally and that will keep her busy and help her with her need to chew. Long walks are best. After that I give her a short training session in certain commands I want her to learn like stay, off, come, take it... She's already potty trained.

My brother has had 4 pit bulls since they were pups and they have all been marshmallows. Never bit or jumped on anyone because they were properly trained and are very submissive. My best friend has a pit bull that belonged to a guy who was mean to him. Hit him, fought him, very negligent. My friend took him home (he already had 2 rottweilers) and introduced them on neutral territory, let them do their dog thing (the sniffing) and they got along just fine. They are all submissive dogs.

I think killing an entire breed is ridiculously ignorant and I don't tolerate idiotic ownership by idiotic people. I think it's a stupid bill. Instead, they need to enforce obedience classes to ALL pet owners. No one should be able to adopt or purchase a pet without first going to training and having all the appropriate tools. The owners are the ones who should be required to have licenses not the pets and these licenses should only be given after proof that the owners have no prior records of cruelty to animals and are financially able to afford not just food and shelter but medical necessities as well.

I think that Rep. Weiselhog or whatever the hell his name is is a dumb jackass looking for brownie points.

What they are are high energy dogs with not enough spent aggression. That's the part that myself and others have a problem with - the high aggression level.

Hi,
Pit Bulls do have a high Aggression Level, being more Aggressive than some other breeds. I really believe in the saying "There are no bad dogs, just untrained owners".
Any breed can be trained, can be taught to not be so aggressive; not to be "boss" all the time. But, the problem is the owner. If owners do not want to take the time to go to training classes with their Pit Bull and work with them, they should not have one.
The key words are "should not". The law will change it to "shall not" be allowed.
It's a pity some dog owners ruin things for all dog owners. However, that's why laws have to be made. Everyone is not going to do what they should; hence, laws.

That's the part that myself and others have a problem with - the high aggression level.

The aggression only gets high if the energy is not spent, that can apply to any breed. That's why you see psycho poodles(not picking on poodles, just an example) barking like mad when you walk by their house. When you see a calm dog, it's not just that they are low energy, but it also means they are getting adequate amounts of exercise and are submissive to their owners. They understand the order of things.

That's why you see psycho poodles(not picking on poodles, just an example) barking like mad when you walk by their house. Funny though, you rarely hear of psycho poodles ripping an infant to shreds.

*L* there is NOT a complete ban on pitties in Ontario, we can keep our dogs, they have to be registered, spayed/neutured and muzzled when in public.

A pack of chi's attacked a police officer... two labX's just killed a pom, poodles have more aggression than pits do. It's all in the training.

poodles have more aggression than pits do. Can you provide any proof of that? I'd be interested to see that.

In 2003, 13 years after the ban on 'pit bulls' was implemented, Winnipeg reported 166 dog bites caused by the following dog breeds:

Shepherd cross (38), Terrier cross (11), Rottweiler (11), Lab cross (10), German Shepherd (8), Husky cross (7), Border Collie cross (7), Bearded Collie cross (6), Rottweiler cross (5), Chow cross (5), Lab (5), Great Dane cross (3), Golden Retriever (3), Dalmatian (3), Poodle cross (2), Golden Retriever cross (2), Cocker Spaniel cross (2), Boxer cross (2), Australian Shepherd cross (2), Terrier (2), Pomeranian (2), Chow Chow (2), Boxer (2), Border Collie (2), Samoyed cross (1), Mastiff cross (1), Heeler cross (1), Great Pyrennes cross (1), Doberman cross (1), Dachshund cross (1), Dalmatian cross (1), Corgi cross (1), Akita cross (1), Springer Spaniel (1), Siberian Husky (1), Shih Tzu (1), 'Pit bull' type (1), Miniature Schnauzer (1), Irish Setter (1), Great Dane (1), Doberman Pinscher (1), Dachshund (1), Cocker Spaniel (1), Bull Mastiff (1), Brittany Spaniel (1), Bloodhound (1), Bichon Frise (1), Akita (1).
--------------------------------------------
If I were considering a Standard Poodle...


My major concerns would be:


Unstable temperaments. Poodles are a dime a dozen, and most of them are bred and offered for sale by people who don't have the slightest idea of how to breed good-tempered dogs. Obedience instructors and behavioral consultants see LOTS of Poodles with neurotic behaviors, including aggression, extreme fearfulness, and hyperactivity.
If you have small children, or if you or anyone who lives with you is elderly or infirm, I do not recommend Standard Poodle puppies. The temptation to play roughly is too strong in many young Standard Poodles.



And I know my late grandfather is no expert, he had a pom Kennel, and he boarded dogs also, he would not allow poodles in the yard. Our late pitty was the kindest gentlest dog, but our toy poodle, at age 9 yrs, jumped up from sleeping on my brothers lap (age 15) and tore into his nose, for no reason at all, he wasn't even petting her, this was a dog we allowed to sleep with the grandchildren, my brother received 3 stitches. I like poodles, don't get me wrong, I just couldn't own another, I've very mistrustful of them.

Punish the owners, not the breed please.

Melinda, are you trying to confuse people that have their mind made up with a bunch of facts?

It is interesting that most of them are crosses. Is this a matter of the few problem owners taking what they get free? Somebody is going to have to dig up a big bunch of facts to convince me aggression is a mixed breed problem. I wonder how many non typical purebreds are labeled mixes? A ban is going to be easier to enforce against purebreds. How do you know if a mixed breed really is a Pit Bull? How many of you have looked at https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=22504 Who is to say for sure if the 2 month old Puppy he found really is a Pit Bull?

So has the average number of bites gone down with the ban on Pit Bulls? If not, repeal it.

Melinda, it's interesting that bites by shephard crosses far outnumber bites by the rest of the dog breeds. Yet I have never heard of a ban on shepherds... although where I am living we have a "dangerous dog" bylaw, and shepherds are included in the list.

I agree with you about poodles. I've always found them to be nervous and high strung, and thus more apt to nip and bite. Our next door neighbor has a standard poodle and I am afraid of it when it gets out of the yard.

Now we are bashing Poodles. I won't deny there are a bunch of poor ones out there. The breed may never recover from its over popularity in the 50's. Too many substandard dogs were bed. The Poodle actually was bred as a retriever originally. Poodle comes from the same root word as puddle. The good ones are highly prized as service dogs because they lack the dander that causes most of the dog allergies. I have done a blindfold walk with a Poodle as my guide. Here is a picture from from one of the training meetings for those raising puppies for dog guides.

http://www.photolocker.net/images/Labman/breedsofdogguidepuppies.jpg

Here are a couple of web sites on Poodles I share. http://www.jagerslatijn.nl/jagerslatijn/poodle.htm
http://www.vipoodle.org/

I will warn you I haven't verified the reliability of those sites. They could be as big load of garbage as many dog care websites. I have never seen a pick up with a gun rack and a Poodle in the back.

Labman, are you FOR bans? I'm am so against it, as my bank account will show you, there is no "pure bred" pit bull, pit bulls are actually crosses, they have men here in Cornwall, with no association with animals except to pick up strays, deciding whether a dog is a pit bull or not. Figure that one out, I couldn't pick a pit bull out of a batch of dogs... I have joined owners in Ottawa for sit ins, roughly 100 pit bull owners and dogs showed up, no fights what so ever, pits, stafforshires and mixes ARE dog aggressive, yes, it's a known fact, but socialize!! Have them fixed, pits are the most loyal , bum wagging dogs... IF in the right hands... same with shepherds, rotti's, any large breed... write to your govt, speak out for the dogs... for canadians.. fight bill 132 please... MY ontario includes pit bulls... does your state?

I'm not bashing poodles... I'm bashing owners... irresponsible owners and just pointing out how any dog can be dangerous... poms also, chi's... anybreed... a lab in the wrong hands... I've had a rotti/lab/dane... so gentle... my daycare loved her... now I have a lab/shepherd 10 months old... gentle as a lamb with them... she was taught to be...

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that we rarely, if ever, hear about crazed poodles or labs tearing a child apart.
Poodle and lab aren't the only other type of dogs, maybe you picked those because you know that most other types of dogs do attak. The other day I was attacked by a jack russel terrier. 2 holes in my hand and ripped my finger nail off. So I guess we should kill all of them too. Oh and my brother was bitten by a german shepard when he was younger, they also should be killed. Come on now, the ones that are scared of pitbulls are only scared because of the news. German shepards attack just as much. Why do you think they are used as police dogs, so they have dogs that attack people. Hmmmmm intersting

HI, Turbo,
Dogs have behavioral instincts and many are leaders of their packs. As you said in your post, I agree with it.
Dogs are not the problem; the problem is owners who do not know how to train their dogs, are not aware there really is a problem, and do not even know enough to ask "why".
I have seen little Chihuahuas go after anything much bigger than they are, and they think they are "King Kong"... don't know their own size. One of them can eat up a human baby before anyone knows what has happened; inflicting many skin tears and bites.
It all comes back to the owner.
As you said, it doesn't really matter about the dog breed. What does matter is the owner.
I do think that German Shepards are used as Police dogs because of their size, and they also have a high intelligence. As I understand it, Poodles are the highest on the dog intelligence ladder.
So, maybe Police Poodles??

Exactly what I was trying to say, it's not the breed, it's the owners.

Lilfrye *L* I accept being the new best friend *L*

Hi, Melinda,
I agree that it's the owners, too.
Sometimes, I have a hard time typing what I want to say.
It's like can't walk and chew gum at the same time!

I know how it is Fredg, if the govt would spend their money, not on bills and bans, but on wiping out byb's, and puppy mills, we'd solve half the problem, it's law to have your dog licenced, it should be law to have your dog spayed/neutured unless you show proof of being a registered kennel, ALL dogs should have to go to at least one session of puppy school. *gets off my soap box and tucks it away till next time*

You know what saddens me is that almost everyone has to put in their 2 cents on a subject even though they know absolutely nothing about that particular subject. Granted there are a few that actually OWN pit bulls and know what they are talking about. When a "pit bull" attacks it goes to the media because they figure that's what the community wants to hear. What most people don't know is that there have been MANY cases where it was said to be a "pit bull" but was really actually a totally different breed. There are also breeds out there that are very similar to pit bulls looks that people misidentify them as that breed. The "pit bull" gene is the most dominant gene therefore if a dog was only 10% "pit bull" it would look very similar to one. There are cases of other attacks by numerous breeds that arnt heard of that do occur. There was a story I remember of a pomeranian killing a baby. I agree with the fact that there are bad owners that eventually contribute to sad stories of dog attacks but it's DOG attacks not only pit bulls. I know of people that wanted to make their "pit bull" mean and vicious just because it's a pit bull, he would beat it and do all kinds of other cruel things but all in all the dog just didn't have a mean streak in him. I personally agree that if a "pit bull" shows any kind of human aggression they should get some pink juice. Pit bulls were in fact created for being game dogs to help farmers and butchers catch unruly bulls and other large farm animals. The one thing they weren't bred for was human aggression any pit bull that showed human aggression was, plainly put, shot to be killed. The behavior was learned not bred. I own and breed pit bulls and any type of aggression be it human or dog I do not tolerate. Now me feeding my dogs vitamins and a healthy food and caring about the bloodline and weights of my dog does not IN ANY WAY mean that I care about fighting my dogs. I care for my dogs like they are family, I care about their nutrition to live healthy lives, I care about their body weight to live healthy, I breed to better the breed, I care about bloodlines because I have show dogs. Everyone that meets my dogs always LOVES them, just for the fact that they are very sweet well mannered dogs. People have the right to hate something like the "pit bull" and I understand that and accept that fact that they are ignorant, I accept it when I have this breed of dog. I just hope that one day the pit bull will go back to what it was; the American Icon. After all of this abuse it deserves it, just to see that there are so many loving pit bulls that have been through hell and back and still find it in their heart to love no matter what. What about the rotties, shephards, dobies that were all the "bad dog" which are now seen as loyal protectors? Did you stop to think about WHY the police force uses the G Shephard? All in all this wonderful breed doesn't deserve to take the fall on human ignorance.
I credit the people that are loyal to the breed because we see eye to eye on how wonderful these dogs are.
I'll leave it on a good note, enjoy the "vicious pit bull" pictures!

Mortal enemies... or close allies?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Mysterious_Mushie/tex/gettingcloser.jpg
Who considers kisses as viciousness?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Mysterious_Mushie/Dogs/Smooches09-05.jpg
Why do people hate us, this child loves me.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Mysterious_Mushie/P1010118.jpg
Even after the frustrations of carrying pups for 63 weeks she considers this one a pup also
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Mysterious_Mushie/floyonjill.jpg
How could you hate this?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Mysterious_Mushie/P4080030.jpg
Nothing but love!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Mysterious_Mushie/P1010069.jpg

No one is arguing with you jenna, you've just more or less said what all of us are saying right along...

Agreed. I think most of the people in this thread are against the pit bull ban, or ban of any breed of dog for that matter. I know I am.

I like the comment I read earlier about how if a human commits a crime, it's the fault of society, the fault of government, or it's always someone else's fault other than the person's, when the reality is that the person is worthless. And if I was to say oh, that's just a worthless black man that did the crime, I would have all these orginizations down my throat saying how I can't put the deeds of a few bad apples on a group of people. Yet when a dog did something bad, its never the result of how they were raised or the environment they are in, no it's because these dogs are evil, villanous masterminds who want to do nothing but harm. (sarcasm alert!) and of course every dog with the title of Pit Bull is bad. It's funny, we are the "advanced" species yet we need excuses for our wrong doing. But when it comes to animals, they just do what they do. Spare the pups, euthanize humans!

8==8 A bone for the pups.
-----------------------------------------------------------
My Pit Bull is always there to lend a hand :-)
http://www.pictub.com/users/2006/01/13/skk_flip/albums/My_pictures/photos/im000521.jpg

I know I wasn't out to argue, I was just stating the facts. I'm glad it still stirs up a commotion about the ban. I give credit to all pit bull owners. :)

I only give credit to any dedicated owner of any breed of dog that raises them right...

Lol of course, one upper, but since this is a pit bull thread, and I love pit bulls I thought I would give credit where credit is due. I love animals so of course I'm not going to be like oh you beat your poodle that's all right just don't beat your pit bull. :p

*L* I like you jenn, you know how to give and take, I'm not an owner of a staffordshire or pitty, but I'm still fighting the ban, many of my friends own the bredd, in fact, my dogs trainer has three mixes that were deemed "unmanagable" and she adopted them, up until the ban, they were companion dogs and visted the seniors homes and schools in our area... the seniors were so upset when they could no longer be brought to the home.

I love pitbulls. I use to own one. I would own one again. Here is a story of an irresponsible owner. My fiancée and his four year old son were playing in the yard the other day when they heard a blood curdling scream coming from right in front of them. My fiancée saw two small children running towards a parked car with a pitbull following close behind. The children jumped into the car and the pitbull tried to claw itself into the vehicle. The police came and the pitbull went after them and was tasered to the ground. We were all very lucky that this ended this way. For me, all I could think was "thank god he didn't see my four year old son". This was a well cared for pitbull who escaped from his home when he saw the children pass by. He was raised to fight and kill. A pitbull is not born a killer, it is raised and trained to kill. Irresponsible owners are killing a beautiful breed of dog who are just as loyal and loving as any other breed when raised right. You can breed it out of them just as easy as you bred them into it. Dog temperament is unstable with any breed. Ask the woman who had a face transplant after her labrodor bit it off. Don't blame the breed, blame the breeder.

Real quick. This is not in response to you... but everyone!
I work at a Doggie Daycare/Boarding facility. I would like everyone to know that LABS are considered one of the most aggressive breeds! I have been bitten by a little Caring Terrier and a Lab and almost bit by many other labs. NEVER has a Rottie, Pit or Doberman tried to hurt me. They need to bring down the people that fight the dogs and punish them... not the poor animals! We have 6 pits and NEVER have had any problems. They are loyal, smart and great listeners... one of the smartest breeds I have ever owned! Own one before you dog them... One more thing... A LAB OR A GOLDEN RETRIEVER even a SMALL dog could be trained to KILL!!

In 2003, 13 years after the ban on 'pit bulls' was implemented, Winnipeg reported 166 dog bites caused by the following dog breeds:

Shepherd cross (38), Terrier cross (11), Rottweiler (11), Lab cross (10), German Shepherd (8), Husky cross (7), Border Collie cross (7), Bearded Collie cross (6), Rottweiler cross (5), Chow cross (5), Lab (5), Great Dane cross (3), Golden Retriever (3), Dalmation (3), Poodle cross (2), Golden Retriever cross (2), Cocker Spaniel cross (2), Boxer cross (2), Australian Shepherd cross (2), Terrier (2), Pomeranian (2), Chow Chow (2), Boxer (2), Border Collie (2), Samoyed cross (1), Mastiff cross (1), Heeler cross (1), Great Pyrennes cross (1), Doberman cross (1), Dachshund cross (1), Dalmation cross (1), Corgi cross (1), Akita cross (1), Springer Spaniel (1), Siberian Husky (1), Shih Tzu (1), 'Pit bull' type (1), Miniature Schnauzer (1), Irish Setter (1), Great Dane (1), Doberman Pinscher (1), Dachshund (1), Cocker Spaniel (1), Bull Mastiff (1), Brittany Spaniel (1), Bloodhound (1), Bichon Frise (1), Akita (1).

Just a general comment on statistics like these. While they are helpful, they can be misleading, because you don't know the denominator data. 38 shepherd cross bites may seem like a lot, but is that 1% of the shepherd cross population or 50%? 2 poodle bites may seem low, but if they are the only two in Wiinipeg, that would be 100% of the poodle population. So keep that in mind when you see these sorts of things.

It angers me to be reading the replies to this question. Ive signed up just to set those of you that seem uneducated or miss-educated on the path of pitbull enlightenment! Fr_Chuck.. what where the circumstances of your attack? Was the dog secured before it attacked you? Did the dog attack you or was there something about your behavior that triggered a predatory instinct? (tripped on the sidewalk, made eye contact with it, or run from it?) Is it possible that another breed would have bitten you in a similar circumstance? Sorry to burst your bubble, needkarma, but there are hundreds of accounts of children being attacked by other breeds. The most likely dog to bite is a Lab however you will never see that on the news. Sorry folks but Lab attacks just are not as sensational! In addition, Pits are not a "hunting" breed they are a "fighting" breed. My father has breed and continues to breed hunting animals. Bird dogs to be specific. Pits share very little with these breeds I grew up raising. Three years ago I met my first pit. She was a badly treated and under fed fighting dog. By fighting dog I mean her owner bet money on her KILLING other dogs. She is EXTREMELY aggressive! One night she appeared in my yard. Having a great base of knowledge about dogs I was confident approaching her and offering her the rest of my lunch. Thus beginning the best friendship Ive ever had! I adopted her and after this my first pitbull I will own no other breed. Extremely smart, fiercely loyal, and more protective than a pet lion. A lap dog never unwilling to show affection. Why would anyone own any other breed? I know if anyone where to approach my children in my yard she would be there. Better than a firearm for home defense that my daughter can find. While I know I can't bring her around other animals because of her past I would sooner trust my graceful pittbull playing with my toddler than a clumsy Lab unaware of his own strength! Educate yourself! Introduce yourself to the next bully breed you meet! Talk to a few owners! Breeds don't kill people breeders do!

[F]
This whole thing just saddens my heart that a breed of dog will be eventually be destroyed because of bad people.

[F]
Why can we not just ban bad people?


It is not the breed of dog it is the owners that need to screened. I remember through the course of my life time when German Shepards were the breed to beware of followed by Dobermans and Rottes now it is Pit Bulls. It is not the breed but the reason for, treatment of and type of owners that chose the breed. I have friends and relatives that have each one of these breeds in their family and they are all wonderful dogs. The key is that the dogs are part of their family. My son and his wife have three children ages 9,5,2 and Scooby Doo happens to be a pitbull. My neighbors have a German Shepard wolf mix,the dog is a love. Could they be dangerous? While I was sitting in our family car at age 8 our family dog a St. Bernard attacked me for no apparent reason, some say it was a drop in the barometric pressure, others says he thought I might hurt my little brother who was crying because the dog was licking his face I will never know. I do know that all dogs no matter the breed have the potenial to be dangerous.

I think it is absolutely STUPID, ( the ban ). I have a 6 week old pit bull pup named Romeo, and he has the most gentle nature. I know he is still young and has to grow into his personality, but you can just tell he is a lover. I have 3 other dogs and he follows everything they do. Teach them right, give them love, and they will be the most beautiful, loving family member you could ever imagine. My sister has a white, deaf pit bull named Zuece, and he is a 130pd BABY. He follows you around and gives you kisses, and wants to be a lap dog. He is also very good with her other two dogs. So please stop all the non sense, stop believing what you hear, forget the hype... If people would give them the chance and love them how they need to be loved, you would Stop hearind all the crap you hear today. SINCERELY A PIT BULL PET OWNER!!

----------------- Bulletin Message -----------------


"Rep. Wesselhoft said the proposed bill will also include provisions designed to bring about an eventual ban of pit bull dogs in the state.
The grandfather clause contained in the bill would allow for the continuing existence of pit bulls currently in Oklahoma. However, pit bull owners would have to have the dogs spayed or neutered, and the animals would need regular rabies shots.
In addition, a pit bull owner would have to be age 21 or older and would be required to have a $100,000 liability insurance policy on every pit bull.
Also, each pit bull would have to be tattooed or otherwise marked when it is registered with the state. Owners would not be able to sell or transfer the dogs to other individuals in Oklahoma, excluding family members. And a person living in Oklahoma will not be able to bring in a new pit bull from out of state.
After those pit bulls that are allowed to remain in Oklahoma under the grandfather clause of the proposed bill die of old age, Wesselhoft said there should be very few pit bulls remaining in the state, if any."
I thank that is stupid to pick on one breed of dog .we have more parents killing there kids. Then pitbulls killing humans. People want to many rules for one breed of dog . I have a pit and if it was not for her I could have been hurt worse than I was .a boxer attacked me she was able to stop him. But you would not see anyone gripping about boxers.

Well I guess for someone who does animal rescue this is a hard question for me to face but I would like to make a attempt at it and throw some of my own views out there.I am sure this will cause some kind of stir from a few people and frankly I don't care it's my opinion and I have the right to express it... So here it goes... I have worked with many pit bulls and other aggressive dogs, which many we were able to rehabilitate(we used Dog whisperer methods,THEY WORK! ) and for those dogs they now have healthy happy homes. But let me include the types of dogs that were aggressive so maybe people will see that it is not just pit bulls and that any dog can be aggressive, it's not the breed of the dog it's the raising of the dog! As for the list cocker spaniels(these being one of the most we have seen), chows, labs, huskies,mixed breeds, pit bulls(in 15 years of animal rescue I have only seen about 2 dozen of these and all but 3 were able to be retrained),dachshunds, chihuahuas(please excuse the spelling), yorkie,mastiff,german shepard,boxer,cairns terrier, jack russel and a few others. You must realize that there are several good pit bulls out there just as there are several of all breeds out there.
Do I think pit bulls should be banned? Hell NO! Banning our choice of animal to have is just like saying it is OK to say who can have children and who can not. Better yet it would be the same as saying people of different races and / or backgrounds can not love one another, so please take a moment and think about it, since when does (what is supposed to be a free world) allow the government tell us what we can and can not own in our own home? Does that seem like we are free with rights? It seems to me when we start allowing the government to decide for us we are nothing more the walking robots doing their every little bidding. I don't know about anyone else but I refuse to live like that, letting someone else rule my rights for me. Who are we to say to anyone else that they can't own what they choose to ? I do believe owners should be held liable for their dogs but how can we hold a dog liable for doing what he was taught to do be his human leader? It's unfair to the dog, we are responsible for the children we bring into this world why not be held responsible for the animals we choose to keep?? This is has become a war of who is stronger in politics and if we continue to let them decide for us there will come a day that your cute little dachshund or your fuzzy siamese cat will no longer be allowed either. I promise you that if we continue to sit down and keep quiet instead of raising our voices and standing up to these political bullies then we will one day be without rights. It is up to everyone of us to make a stand-UNITED WE STAND, Separate WE FALL!
I have said my peace but if you have anything to add then please free as it is your god given right to do so!! ;)

I think this whole thing has gotten out of control. We need more responsible people out there breeding pitbulls to stop selling them to just anyone and stop breeding for the money! I own a pitbull that is wonderful and I would love to continue his bloodline. There is no way I would sell a puppy to just anyone. There are too many people out there trying to fight them. We need more responsible people calling in on dog fights, we need more animal cops (they are wonderful, but we need more) and regular cops. This issue is just as important if not more important than the drug issue. We have people out there traing and inbreeding dogs so that they are bigger and more aggressive than ever, and are killing people. This is a huge issue and people like michael vick need to be put away for a long long time for doing these things. If anyone told me I had to turn him in or do all that bull they're saying you have to do,I would honostly move out of this country. The government doesn't seem to know how to get things under control anymore and its starting to really make me sick!

At one time I was also scared to death of a pit bull (cause of what I had heard) really any dog cause I was bit by a dog as a young child & not a pit bull. Did not want one. Would not go into a yard that had one. After some one gave me one as a puppy and I trained it, loved it, it listens to me, well both (now I have 2 which the female Angel just had 8 puppies) do actually. Their good around my nieces and nephews, but don't let some hurt the kids cause they will take up for them.
I do realize they can become mean, it's in their jean, but I also believe it's the way you treat them to. I'm also very careful with my dogs. If it seams their having a bad day, as we all can you know, I just don't let the kids around them.
Just my opinion!!
http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/0/3/2/7/4/1/webimg/64042611_o.jpg

I also forgot to mention that I don't breed mine to make money, so far most of this litter of going to family or if I have any left and do decide to sell one I will be very careful who my puppy is going to. If I don't know you, then you DO NOT get my puppy. This was Angels first litter & our family has been deciding if we would like for her to have another one or not. Because we are scared of the fact someone may end of with one of the puppies and fight it. My heart would just break. I don't believe it that at all.

Congratulations Momofpitbulls!! Im so happy to hear that there are responsible pitbull owners out there! I love to hear about things like this and how you won't just gve your pups to anyone! By the way... hey are beautiful puppies!!

OK this is just dumb why hate the animal just because the person that owns it is a total idiot! I have 4 pitbulls for myself and the have never bitten anyone they never attack kids or none of that! So how can you say lets ban the dog all together this is ridiculous

I agree that people should take responsibility for their animals however this affects the ones who never caused any harm also. Thats just like someone coming up to me and saying " off to the electric chair miss. we have too many brunettes burning down houses." Why should everyone else have to suffer? If people would learn not to train these dogs to be mean then it wouldnt be that way.
Got cut off somehow with rating. This breed is ferousious to begin with. It is just good at hiding it and giving people a false sense of security around them, then it will, I said WILL turn on someone and could even cause death.

Agree with Need.A pit bull is bred to hunt.Why own a dangerus animal.Just stick to faithful fido.
So what cartwright is saying is that a gentle, loving pitbull (DEFINETLY NOT MY OPION), that is bred to work with a 2,000 pound bull, is so gentle, and loving? I think it would take a ferousious animal to try and attack a bull that outweighs it by about 1940 pounds. What do you think? Makes sense don't it.

Apparently, the man who owned the dogs was a next door neighbor, and one of the dogs was pulling a sleigh with the little girl in it (who was 2, I just found out!). The sleigh went by the attacking dog and that's when he bit her in face. She was in the backyard with all 5 dogs, and I assume not much supervision! The other dogs were put down because their shots weren't up to date, and there was a question of rabies. The dog that did attack her was kept alive for rabies testing. When the testing was over and came back negative, the dog was put down too.

I think it was awfully stupid on the part of the owner and the parents of the little girl, allowing such a little child in the backyard with 5 big dogs!! Like what were they thinking?? :confused:



Yes exactly! We have a yellow lab, and we didn't have to get the special licensing for him. However if we mistreated him or let the child we're expecting kick or tease him or be mean, etc, he might attack too. Of course we'd never do that, and I strongly believe in supervision for little kids with dogs, for both the dogs and the child's protection. My dog is also in obedience classes. I don't think any breed should automatically be labled "dangerous".

Why is it you people think that when an innocent child is attacked by an aggressive breed of dog that you think they were not attended by an adult? So silly, I was attacked, and was in a salvage yard garage with the owner, my grandfather, and my dad there, all walking in a single file through the shop and I was attacked for no reason. Get real people and just admit these dogs are dangerous.

Also, just this week a young two year old girl was attacked by a pit bull when she went up to pet the dog. She had petted the dog many times before at her uncle's home. With no bad results. But this time she had to go to the hospital and almost had to have reconstructive surgery to her face. She to was not unattended, her father and uncle were there with her. The dog had never showed any aggression before to her. Guess what she too will grow up and be for any and all bans of this breed.

Your right Orange, that was really stupid on the parents fault for not keeping an eye on the little girl, and she was 2? Anytime you have a young child with bigger dogs especially more than one dog you need to keep an eye out beecause you don;t know what can happen. Being a mother this would have been just common sense since it would be dealing with dogs that were'nt mine.

There was another situation like this that happened here a few weeks ago. The dog didn't attack the child but it was an accident and this is just to prove the point why children need to be supervised with big dogs.

a little girl had been playing with her aunts dog in the backyard of her aunts house, I think the girl was four. She had been wearing a scarf, what happened was the dog had been playing with her and grabbed the end of the scarf and dragged her aroung the yard. She wasn't able to get the scarf off while this was happening and the dog ended up choking her to death. I beleive this dog was a German shepard.
But because no one was keeping an eye on the little girl this unfortunate accident happened.
Why defend the dogs here? Were you there? Do you know the child was unattended? Come on now, if you have a child that is injured by a dog, would you still be defending the dog? Probably not.

Funny though, you rarely hear of psycho poodles ripping an infant to shreds.
Hmmm, you say rarely? I don't recall ever hearing that a poodle ripped an infant to shreds. I have seen one lick an infant in the face though.

so what cartwright is saying is that a gentle, loving pitbull (DEFINETLY NOT MY OPION), that is bred to work with a 2,000 pound bull, is so gentle, and loving? i think it would take a ferousious animal to try and attack a bull that outweighs it by about 1940 pounds. what do you think? makes sense don't it.

So you are also in favor of banning bulldogs and bull terriers? After all, the "bull" in dog breed names comes from them being used with cattle, and in bull and bear baiting. So they have just as much of a propensity for being violent dogs, don't they?

It angers me to be reading the replies to this question. Ive signed up just to set those of you that seem uneducated or miss-educated on the path of pitbull enlightenment!! Fr_Chuck.. what where the circumstances of your attack? Was the dog secured before it attacked you? Did the dog attack you or was there something about your behavior that triggered a predatory instinct? (tripped on the sidewalk, made eye contact with it, or run from it?) Is it possible that another breed would have bitten you in a similar circumstance? Sorry to burst your bubble, needkarma, but there are hundreds of accounts of children being attacked by other breeds. The most likely dog to bite is a Lab however you will never see that on the news. Sorry folks but Lab attacks just are not as sensational! In addition, Pits are not a "hunting" breed they are a "fighting" breed. My father has breed and continues to breed hunting animals. Bird dogs to be specific. Pits share very little with these breeds I grew up raising. Three years ago I met my first pit. She was a badly treated and under fed fighting dog. By fighting dog I mean her owner bet money on her KILLING other dogs. She is EXTREMELY aggressive! One night she appeared in my yard. Having a great base of knowledge about dogs i was confident approaching her and offering her the rest of my lunch. Thus beginning the best friendship Ive ever had! I adopted her and after this my first pitbull i will own no other breed. Extremely smart, fiercely loyal, and more protective than a pet lion. A lap dog never unwilling to show affection. Why would anyone own any other breed?! I know if anyone where to approach my children in my yard she would be there. Better than a firearm for home defense that my daughter can find. While i know i can't bring her around other animals because of her past I would sooner trust my graceful pittbull playing with my toddler than a clumsy Lab unaware of his own strength!! Educate yourself!! Introduce yourself to the next bully breed you meet! Talk to a few owners! Breeds dont kill people breeders do!
Typical pit bull owner, thinking it was Fr_Chuck's actions causing the attack.

hmmm, you say rarely? i don't recall ever hearing that a poodle ripped an infant to shreds. i have seen one lick an infant in the face though.

Poodle attack brings lawsuit - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_396850.html)

And keep in mind that "everyone knows" that the dogs that attack are "pit bulls", so a lot of mixed breed dogs that attack someone automatically get labeled as "pit bulls". If it's a lab/sheperd mix and attacks someone, it's a "pit bull". If it's a lab/pit mix and it attacks, it's always described as a "pit bull" or a "pit mix", almost never as a "lab mix".

At one time I was also scared to death of a pit bull (cause of what I had heard) really any dog cause I was bit by a dog as a young child & not a pit bull. Did not want one. Would not go into a yard that had one. After some one gave me one as a puppy and I trained it, loved it, it listens to me, well both (now I have 2 which the female Angel just had 8 puppies) do actually. Their good around my nieces and nephews, but don't let some hurt the kids cause they will take up for them.
I do realize they can become mean, it's in their jean, but I also believe it's the way you treat them to. I'm also very careful with my dogs. If it seams their having a bad day, as we all can you know, I just don't let the kids around them.
Just my opinion!!!
http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/0/3/2/7/4/1/webimg/64042611_o.jpg
WHY, would you own such a creature that when you think they are having a bad day you would not allow the children around them? When it happens to be too early one day for you to detect the pit is having a bad day, I hope the child(ren) is not injured too badly. Then they too will grow up to want this breed banned.

I am afraid all of Mowerman's posts in this thread reflect the same ignorant stereotypes about dogs that we no longer accept with people. They certainly are at odds with the reality of all the sweet, loving Pit Bulls that live to old age and never cause a problem. I have yet to see one of his posts showing much knowledge of dogs.

All breed specific legislation is a bad idea.

Labman, I haven't posted on this thread because I have posted on similar ones. Mowerman and I have already had a discussion on this, he knows my views, and I am a person who dislikes repeating myself. This is one of those subjects/debates that will continue until the end of time. When someone suffers a traumatic incident as a child, there is very little a person can say to change someone's position. Since the original post was made almost two years ago, is it possible for this thread to be closed now?

The only reason I haven't closed it is that somebody would just start another. I think everything there is to say has already been said several times. I am sick of the subject.

Keeping this thread open won't keep someone else from starting a new thread somewhere else on the site. It has already happened a few times. I am sick of the subject myself. Especially when people who are defending them are breeding them in their backyards and posting pictures thinking it will warm our hearts. I can't stand it. I would truly appreciate it if you would just close this thread and we take our chances on whether someone will start a new one some time in the future.