If a beneficiuary refuses to sign the final accounting for an estate then does it go in front of the probate judge?

But its the responsibility of the executor to find and pay any debts. If the executor doesn't do so, they can be sued for failing their fiduciary responsibility.

How does one sue the executor for failing to handle the estate properly?

Does the probate judge handle this?

How does one sue the executor for failing to handle the estate properly? Does the probate judge handle this?Hello Lotta:

One hires an attorney. If you're a party to the proceedings, the judge won't talk to you.

excon

PS> You also should start your own thread. You'll get more action that way. Maybe it'll be moved by a moderator.

How does one sue the executor for failing to handle the estate properly?

Does the probate judge handle this?


I don't understand the original question - the holder of the mortgage doesn't have to file a lien. The loan stands, to be paid by the estate, as a debt of the decedent. The fact that a person dies does not retire/end the debt.

Anyway - if the executor (and I believe it's your husband) handles the estate improperly in my area you have to first file a complaint with the probate court and then proceed from there.

Hello again, Lotta:

You're going to have to go into more detail than that. These decisions are not made of context.

Signing an accounting has no legal meaning. I don't know what that means. Do you think it means that if you sign it, you AGREE with it??

Let me say it again, Lotta. If you think you're being cheated, or if you think somebody is acting unfairly, or if there is a large estate under consideration, you need a lawyer to represent you. You can't do it yourself. Once you're cheated and the money is gone there ain't much you can do about it THEN. There might be something you can do about it NOW.

excon

First its not a good idea to piggyback your question on someone else's. This can lead to confusion. You should start a new thread. So I've moved your question to its own thread. I've also merged your threads for continuity. Please reply to this thread for any follow-up.

As noted you can start with a complaint with the probate court. If that doesn't do anything get a lawyer and sue.

I also agree with excon here in that we need more info. If a beneficiary refuse to accept the final accounting, then it might be necessary to get a probate judge to approve it. But without knowing what's really going on here, its hard to advise.

I believe it would after a point. Disagreements can be resolved in a variety of ways such as mediation or lawsuits that would delay the process. Eventually a lawsuit would settle the disagreement.

There is also a statute of limitations for which lawsuits or objections can be filed. Once that is past, the probate judge would oversee the process.

Having the papers signed is generally believed to speed up the process through indication that there are no disputes. Not signing might delay the process but will not stop in permanently.

Hello again, Lotta:

You're going to have to go into more detail than that.

Signing an accounting has no legal meaning. I dunno what that means. Do you think it means that if you sign it, you AGREE with it??????

Let me say it again, Lotta. If you think you're being cheated, or if you think somebody is acting unfairly, or if there is a large estate under consideration, you need a lawyer to represent you. You can't do it yourself. Once you're cheated and the money is gone there ain't much you can do about it THEN. There might be something you can do about it NOW.

excon

There is money not showing up in the final accounting for an estate.
The attorney and executor wants the beneficuary to sign the final accounting but the beneficiuary will not sign it until all monies are accouted for.

Will this go in front of a probate judge to force the attorney and executor to show were the money went?

First, was the will and estate probated? Second, how does the beneficiary know money hasn't been accounted for? Third, what is the executor's explanation?

First, was the will and estate probated? Second, how does the beneficiary know money hasn't been accounted for? Third, what is the executor's explanation?

1) I believe that the will was probated. How would one find out?

2) The records showing the money coming in/going out has many errors and the numbers do not correspond.

3)The attorney and executor will not answer the beneficuaries questions pertaining to the "lost" money.



Will the attorney and executor have to answer the flawed accounting questions before the probate judge?

The paperwork indicates that the executor is "bonded". What does that mean?

Hello again, Lotta:

I'll give it another shot because you've been around here for a while. You have serious issues. These issues CANNOT be solved on the internet.

EVEN if we told you that you are being cheated, what the HELL are you going to do about it??

Without a lawyer, you can't do ANYTHING. This lawyer who isn't cooperating with you, isn't all of a sudden going to lay down for you because you told him you found out stuff on the internet...

If you are truly interested in DOING something about it, instead of just wasting time, you'll hire a lawyer.

I'm done.

excon

1) Check with the local probate court for a filing

2) Don't correspond with what? You need to have proof to challenge the accounting

3) the benficiary needs to get an independent accountant to go over the accounting. Then hire an attorney to challenge the accounting in probate court.

1) I believe that the will was probated. How would one find out?

2) The records showing the money coming in/going out has many errors and the numbers do not correspond.

3)The attorney and executor will not answer the beneficuaries questions pertaining to the "lost" money.


Something is either left out or not understood.

If there is an Executor either the Will was probated or there was no Will and somebody applied to be appointed Executor and was appointed. There is an Executor - something went to Probate.

The final accounting is the same as balancing a checking account statement - X$ to start with, X$ in, X$ out, X$ balance. The Probate Judge/Surrogate's Court Judge - actually one of his Clerks - has a legal responsibility to review and approve the accounting before final filing. Has this been done? How far off are the numbers?

Is the Attorney you are talking about the Estate Attorney? The Probate Court's Attorney? The Executor's Attorney? Your Attorney?

I would "assume" you are the beneficiary - are you entitled to a percentage? A specific bequest? Depending on the bequest you may not be entitled to question the accounting. For example, if you are to receive $10,000 you are not entitled to information on the rest of the estate; if you are entitled to receive a percentage, then you are entitled.

I've seen probate courts be very willing to discuss estate papers with anyone who asks; I've seen Executors request that only the necessary information be given out and I've seen the court agree.

A lot depends on your State.

Hello again, Lotta:

I'll give it another shot because you've been around here for a while. You have serious issues. These issues CANNOT be solved on the internet.

EVEN if we told you that you are being cheated, what the HELL are you gonna do about it?????

Without a lawyer, you can't do ANYTHING. This lawyer who isn't cooperating with you, isn't all of a sudden going to lay down for you because you told him you found out stuff on the internet......

If you are truly interested in DOING something about it, instead of just wasting time, you'll hire a lawyer.

I'm done.

excon

What would be the purpose of the probate court and probate judge?

Just wondered if not signing the final accounting shows to the probate judge that there are errors that not to be addressed.

I suspect your response and Judy's crossed paths, so I would review her response. The purpose of probate is to ensure that the estate has been disposed of according to the laws of the state.

What would be the purpose of the probate court and probate judge?

Just wondered if not signing the final accounting shows to the probate judge that there are errors that not to be addressed.


The probate court/probate judge oversee estates, makes sure they are settled in accordance with Wills and/or the law.

Probate reviews ALL the documents before an estate is settled/closed.

A beneficiary not signing the final accounting usually indicates there is bad blood, nothing more and nothing less. Obvious errors are caught by the Court; in theory, ALL errors are caught by the Court.

Again, to get a more specific opinion - what is your interest in the estate?

Not signing alone will not tell the judge any reason that you are not signing. You'd have to file a complaint stating the reasons.

Sounds like you need your own attorney to represent you.

Something is either left out or not understood.

If there is an Executor either the Will was probated or there was no Will and somebody applied to be appointed Executor and was appointed. There is an Executor - something went to Probate.

The final accounting is the same as balancing a checking account statement - X$ to start with, X$ in, X$ out, X$ balance. The Probate Judge/Surrogate's Court Judge - actually one of his Clerks - has a legal responsibility to review and approve the accounting before final filing. Has this been done? How far off are the numbers?

Is the Attorney you are talking about the Estate Attorney? The Probate Court's Attorney? The Executor's Attorney? Your Attorney?

I would "assume" you are the beneficiary - are you entitled to a percentage? A specific bequest? Depending on the bequest you may not be entitled to question the accounting. For example, if you are to receive $10,000 you are not entitled to information on the rest of the estate; if you are entitled to receive a percentage, then you are entitled.

I've seen probate courts be very willing to discuss estate papers with anyone who asks; I've seen Executors request that only the necessary information be given out and I've seen the court agree.

A lot depends on your State.

There is a will.

The accounting is poor. For example, there are blank spaces on the accounting that do not indicate where money was paid to or the reason. The information regarding the funds is limited. Comingled funds, not properly documented amounts being paid out, bills not being paid, taxes not being paid even though there was a surplus of funds to pay the bills as money was coming into the estate monthly...



The number are off around $xx,xxx.


The attorney is the estates attorney (also should represent the beneficiuary of the estate one would think?)

The beneficuary is entitled to 1/3 of the assets of the estate.



Thanks to all for your replies.

There is a will.

The accounting is poor. For example, there are blank spaces on the accounting that do not indicate where money was paid to or the reason. The information regarding the funds is limited. Comingled funds, not properly documented amounts being paid out, bills not being paid, taxes not being paid even though there was a surplus of funds to pay the bills as money was coming into the estate monthly...

The number are off around $xx,xxx.

The attorney is the estates attorney (also should represent the beneficiuary of the estate one would think?)

The beneficuary is entitled to 1/3 of the assets of the estate.


No, the Attorney represents the Estate, the Executor, not the beneficiary - the Executor is the one who picks the Attorney. Lots of people make that mistake.

How and when the bills are paid is not a decision of the beneficiaries - it is the decision of the Executor based on those bills, the assets, proper and appropriate timing.

I don't understand the co-mingled funds question - how do you comingle estate funds?

Anyway - before this turns into a blog I think you (as beneficiary) need to retain an Attorney and let him/her go from there. I think that was my very first advice to you and it's my current advice to you.

And if you are wrong be prepared for the Estate's Attorney's fees to cut into your 1/3 because explaining to you and/or your Attorney takes time, time is money, the Attorney is entitled to be paid. For that matter if you are right, the Attorney's fees come out of the estate.

What does it mean when the executor is bonded?

What does it mean when the executor is bonded?


His/her actions are insured in case of error, theft - there is an insurance carrier who will cover the loss to the beneficiaries.

Same as being bonded on the job.

The executor may also be bonded.

How and when the bills are paid is not a decision of the beneficiaries - it is the decision of the Executor based on those bills, the assets, proper and appropriate timing.



If the property taxes/income taxes have not been paid even though there are surplus of money in the account then would the executor/attorney being handling the estate properly?




I don't understand the co-mingled funds question - how do you comingle estate funds?



Separate bills were paid with one check and the amounts of are not disclosed for each separate item.

Two big ticket items were sold and only one amount is reflected in the accounting. A person is unable to determine how much each item sold for. The value of the two items combined should have been over $50,000 but the accounting only shows that the two items sold for $18,000 combined??





Anyway - before this turns into a blog I think you (as beneficiary) need to retain an Attorney and let him/her go from there. I think that was my very first advice to you and it's my current advice to you.




Thanks - just looking to understand the process.




And if you are wrong be prepared for the Estate's Attorney's fees to cut into your 1/3 because explaining to you and/or your Attorney takes time, time is money, the Attorney is entitled to be paid. For that matter if you are right, the Attorney's fees come out of the estate.



The attorney has already taken his cut even though all monies that should be paid into the estate have not been accounted for. The estate still is paid a monthy income for sold property.


Sounds like the money will come out of the beneficuaries 1/3 cut either way.

His/her actions are insured in case of error, theft - there is an insurance carrier who will cover the loss to the beneficiaries.

Same as being bonded on the job.

The executor may also be bonded.


What would be the criteria needed to prove money was "lost" from the estate?

How does one file a claim to the insurance carrier?

What would be the criteria needed to prove money was "lost" from the estate?

How does one file a claim to the insurance carrier?


One files a complaint with Surrogate's Court; if they do not provide satisfactory answers, then you get an Attorney and that person takes care of the claim.

One way or the other - hire an Attorney. You are asking questions only someone familiar with this particular estate can answer.

And, yes, the Attorney often gets paid first - or monthly as services are rendered. Not unusual.

Probate reviews ALL the documents before an estate is settled/closed.



Does the probate court review the documents just prior to the final singing of the beneficuries are does this the court review the documents after they have been signed?






A beneficiary not signing the final accounting usually indicates there is bad blood, nothing more and nothing less. Obvious errors are caught by the Court; in theory, ALL errors are caught by the Court.



Should the beneficuary still sign the final accounting even thought there are "flaws" in the handling of the estate?

One files a complaint with Surrogate's Court; if they do not provide satisfactory answers, then you get an Attorney and that person takes care of the claim.



Should a complaint be filed before signing the final accounting or does it not matter?

His/her actions are insured in case of error, theft - there is an insurance carrier who will cover the loss to the beneficiaries.

Same as being bonded on the job.

The executor may also be bonded.

Is there a dollar limit on how much is covered by the carrier?

Does the probate court review the documents just prior to the final singing of the beneficuries are does this the court review the documents after they have been signed?



Should the beneficuary still sign the final accounting even thought there are "flaws" in the handling of the estate?


Hire an Attorney.

Should a complaint be filed before signing the final accounting or does it not matter?


Hire an Attorney.

Is there a dollar limit on how much is covered by the carrier?


Hire an Attorney.

Depends on the terms of the bond. But basically it probably insures the estate against malfeasance by the executor.

Depends on the terms of the bond. But basically it probably insures the estate against malfeasance by the executor.

Would signing the final accounting not allow the bond to be pursued?

Hire an Attorney.



Will have to contact the surrogate court for complaint form(s).

Hello Lotta:

One hires an attorney. If you're a party to the proceedings, the judge won't talk to you.

excon

PS> You also should start your own thread. You'll get more action that way. Maybe it'll be moved by a moderator.

Can an individual process a bond against the estate or will one need a separate attorney?

Thanks

First, if the bond is what I think it is, then the bond would be paid if proof of malfeasance is produced. Doesn't matter what was signed.

But what you NEED is an attorney. Someone who can guide you through probate court. We can't do that. We can only guess about the circumstances.

The attorney refuses to show the beneficuary any of the documents.

The executor paid $20,000 to have the interior of one of the residential properties in the estate painted. The cost should have been around $2,000 - $3,000. Executor will not explain the reason for the excessive money paid to the painter. Odd?

One house was sold and 2 days later the house sold again for over 20% higher without any improvements. Odd?

Another individual was an executor of another estate and that lawyer stated that the beneficuaries can request any information about the estate and he must submit it to them.

The attorney refuses to show the beneficuary any of the documents.......... Odd?
EVEN if we told you that you are being cheated, what the HELL are you gonna do about it?????

Without a lawyer, you can't do ANYTHING. This lawyer who isn't cooperating with you, isn't all of a sudden going to lay down for you because you told him you found out stuff on the internet......Hello again, lotta:

Odd?? ODD, you ask?? Not to me. I told you he was going to do just that.

I don't know. Do you think I do this just to see to see myself in print??

excon

Comments on this post
JudyKayTee disagrees: Lotta, I don't know what the problem is here. Your questions have been answered and answered and answered. This is not a legal hotline. Retain an Attorney. No matter how clearly, how many times the procedure is explained you are not understanding

I asked the very first question on the top of the thread and then the forum mods must have inserted the next post as it has a quote from another thread. It appears that people were confused by that second post.

I never said that this was a legal hotline just asked a basic question at the top of the thread regarding "If a beneficiuary refuses to sign the final accounting for an estate then does it go in front of the probate judge?"

Additional information about the situation were asked and I put forth the details.

One does not encounter the process of estate on a weekly basis.

Hello again, Lotta:

Nobody is mad at you here - frustrated yes, but not mad. Your question has been answered to best of our ability. You got GOOD advice, too.

ALL of us, however, to a man, have told you in one continuous voice that you need boots on the ground to DO the work that we can only talk about.

The last part, for whatever reason, has completely gone over your head. I don't know why. You just pretend it wasn't said.

excon

Lotta - probating a will is a pain in the rearend to put it mildly and can take enormous amounts of time and effort for the court and attorney to properly figure out. Please just consult with an attorney and ask him all of your questions. Yes, the court goes over every piece of paper and makes a big deal about the littlest of things. If you had to prepare these documents for the probate court you'd know what I'm talking about. I had to do this and believe me it's totally out of your league the questions you are asking cannot just be "taken care of over the internet". Probate is an animal unto itself, believe me. Let the experts take care of this for you.

If there is THAT much money involved here, then definitely pay an attorney PLEASE!

Thanks

When an excessive amount of money is "lost" from an estate then his license may be in jeopardy.Hello again, Lotta:

Not from YOU it isn't, because you don't DO anything except TALK. It takes somebody DOING something to have that result. You ain't a doer.

excon

I asked the very first question on the top of the thread and then the forum mods must have inserted the next post as it has a quote from another thread. It appears that people were confused by that second post.

I never said that this was a legal hotline just asked a basic question at the top of the thread regarding "If a beneficiuary refuses to sign the final accounting for an estate then does it go in front of the probate judge?"

Additional information about the situation were asked and I put forth the details.

One does not encounter the process of estate on a weekly basis.


No, you didn't say anything about a legal hotline. I did - because every question was answered; the response to that answer was another question; that question was answered... and so forth.

Perhaps if you had posted all the details the very first time I could have saved myself some frustration and you could have saved yourself some time.

This all boils down if you want to GET some money you have to SPEND some money.

Retain counsel.

This all boils down if you want to GET some money you have to SPEND some money.

Retain counsel.

The attorney handling the estate is being paid from the estate assets.

Thank you

The attorney handling the estate is being paid from the estate assets.

So? Of course he is. That's the way these things work. Expenses incvolved in processing the estate are paid from the estate.

What we have been telling you is to get your OWN lawyer.

Hello again, Lotta:

Not from YOU it isn't, because you don't DO anything except TALK. It takes somebody DOING something to have that result. You ain't a doer.

excon

Is it not the surrogate judge that oversees the activities of the estate, the attorney and the executor of the estate?

What we have been telling you is to get your OWN lawyer.

Thank you

Is it not the surrogate judge that oversees the activities of the estate, the attorney and the executor of the estate?

Once, more you need an attorney to represent YOUR interests. The others represent the interests of the estate, not the beneficiaries.

If a beneficiary refuse to accept the final accounting, then it might be necessary to get a probate judge to approve it.

If the judge does not approve it then will it go back to the attorney for corrections?

The attorney handling the estate is being paid from the estate assets.Hello again, lotta:

DUHHHHH!! I don't know what that has to do with anything... What does it matter who pays him?? What matters is WHAT HE'S DOING. I don't know why that is soooo hard to understand.

But, it isn't hard to understand, is it? You read and speak English pretty well... Nahhh, at this point, you understand just fine. I think you just love screwing with people. You're being very rude by ignoring what we tell you. I don't know why you're treating us that way. We've done everything we can to tell you how you can get your money...

But, NOOOOOOOO, you want to talk about something else, like the weather. I said I was done earlier. I should have stuck with that.

excon

Once, more you need an attorney to represent YOUR interests.



That is understood.




The others represent the interests of the estate, not the beneficiaries.



The probate court/probate judge oversee estates, makes sure they are settled in accordance with Wills and/or the law.

Probate reviews ALL the documents before an estate is settled/closed


Was using that post as references.

What does it matter who pays him???? What matters is WHAT HE'S DOING. I don't know why that is soooo hard to understand.




If the money that is being paid to the estate attorney comes from a portion of the beneficuaries pay-out then is he not being paid indirectly by the beneficuary?


I think you just love screwing with people.

Sorry but that is not the case. Just trying to understand the process.
If it is said that the surrogate judge will oversee the documents than if he finds errors then the estate should not be settled until they are corrected?

Unless I am reading the replies incorrectly?


Thank you.

I will explain the estate/probate process very simply for your situation.

The estate's attorney is supposed to disburse the estate in accordance with the terms of the will. The estate's attorney is supposed to handle that disbursement in a way that maximizes the value of the estate. The judge is supposed to review the disbursement to ensure that it was done properly according to law.

The important words above are "supposed to". People don't always do their jobs honestly or properly. You have to protect yourself against that happening. The only way you can protect yourself is to GET YOUR OWN ATTORNEY. You can't rely on the estate's attorney to protect you. You can't rely on the judge to protect you. You can't rely on the answers you get at an internet q&a site to protect you.

Get an attorney. Today. Now. Before the estate's attorney wastes any more money that you can't get back.

The judge is supposed to review the disbursement to ensure that it was done properly according to law.


Does the judge review the disbursements just prior to the final accounting or after it is signed by the beneficaries?

(I understand- get an attorney)

Does the judge review the disbursements just prior to the final accounting or after it is signed by the beneficaries?

I have no idea. But why does the answer matter? You're missing the point. There is a chance the judge won't even look at the disbursements and just sign off on it! Get it now?


(I understand- get an attorney)

Instead of typing out this question you should have been calling an attorney.

Hello lotta:

55 posts later, and you ask your question again. You got a LOTTA nerve. No, you don't understand squat. You're an idiot. You don't deserve money. Go away.

excon

There is a chance the judge won't even look at the disbursements and just sign off on it! Get it now?


Then the judge may not even look at the documents?

Faith in the system or lack there of.

Then the judge may not even look at the documents?

faith in the system or lack there of.

Experience.

It's been 10 minutes. Got an attorney yet?

I'm done.

faith in the system or lack there of.

Exactly! You can't have complete faith in the system. That's why lawyers exist: to protect one's interests.

Hello lotta:

55 posts later, and you ask your question again. You got a LOTTA nerve. No, you don't understand squat. You're an idiot. You don't deserve money. Go away.

excon

Sorry but there seems to be contradictions as to the replies and one needs to find the correct answer.

(get an attorney-I do understand)

You cannot fault a person for trying to gain some basic knowledge.

Who is to say that the attorney that one hires to review the estate may be flawed just like the estate attorney and the surrogate judge?

You can't, but at least YOU have the opportunity to interview and decide if you want them to represent you. And you are hiring them to represent YOU. The other parties are not there to represent your interests.

If the estate proceedings are located in another state then does the attorney that one hires need to be in that state or can they be from the beneficiaries "home" state?

You can hire someone locally, who may have an affiliate or work through an affiliate at the court where the action is taking place.

Thanks

Hello again, Lotta:

After due consideration, I'm going to change my advice. I've been wrong. You don't need a lawyer. It's going to be throwing good money after bad.

Even, if you won your portion of the estate, given that you seem surprised that people don't always do what they're supposed to do, you're going to lose it all to the first person who happens along.

So, save yourself (and us) the trouble. Let them have it.

excon

Sorry but there seems to be contradictions as to the replies and one needs to find the correct answer.

(get an attorney-I do understand)

You cannot fault a person for trying to gain some basic knowledge.

Who is to say that the attorney that one hires to review the estate may be flawed just like the estate attorney and the surrogate judge?



I read through and can't find any contradictions - just for my own info, what info do you find contradictory?

You don't know that the estate attorney and Judge are "flawed" - until you get an independent Attorney you don't know anything at all. I think you think the World is out to get you - and maybe it is. I sure hope this estate is worth millions of dollars because it is going to cost the estate thousands of dollars trying to explain the accounting to you.

You are not being faulted for trying to gain some basic knowledge - I am least am faulting you for continuing to post question after question like anyone here knows all the circumstances instead of getting off your duff and retaining counsel -

Which, by the way, has been advised since March 24.