I can't remember exactly where or when, but fairly recently I heard someone say (I know, kind of indefinite!), that the use of grains for fuel would cause a shortage of livestock feed. Are there people who believe this?

I have been hearing about corn shortages being the cause of price increases.
I heard too that one of the reasons gas is getting so expensive is because they need the money to produce the corn fuel.

* An acre of U.S. corn yields about 7,110 pounds of corn for processing into 328 gallons of ethanol. But planting, growing and harvesting that much corn requires about 140 gallons of fossil fuels and costs $347 per acre, according to Pimentel's analysis. Thus, even before corn is converted to ethanol, the feedstock costs $1.05 per gallon of ethanol.

* The energy economics get worse at the processing plants, where the grain is crushed and fermented. As many as three distillation steps are needed to separate the 8 percent ethanol from the 92 percent water. Additional treatment and energy are required to produce the 99.8 percent pure ethanol for mixing with gasoline.
* Adding up the energy costs of corn production and its conversion to ethanol, 131,000 BTUs are needed to make 1 gallon of ethanol. One gallon of ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 BTU. "Put another way", Pimentel says, "about 70 percent more energy is required to produce ethanol than the energy that actually is in ethanol. Every time you make 1 gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 BTU".

* Ethanol from corn costs about $1.74 per gallon to produce, compared with about 95 cents to produce a gallon of gasoline. "That helps explain why fossil fuels-not ethanol-are used to produce ethanol", Pimentel says. "The growers and processors can't afford to burn ethanol to make ethanol. U.S. drivers couldn't afford it, either, if it weren't for government subsidies to artificially lower the price".

more here--->
Ethanol (http://healthandenergy.com/ethanol.htm)

Do I believe it,no, because there are several parts of the corn plant (which they mean) used for fuel. Even the stock of the plant has potential. And corn is a growable source any time any where and has been proven to be such over the centuries.

Are there people who believe this?Hello Galveston:

Uhhh, yeah...

The price of wheat and other grains have recently reached new highs. The reason being that fields that used to grow grain for food (or feed), now grow grain for fuel.

excon

Hello Galveston:

Uhhh, yeah.....

The price of wheat and other grains have recently reached new highs. The reason being that fields that used to grow grain for food (or feed), now grow grain for fuel.

excon


Exactly what they have been saying on the news I listen to.

Well, here's a news flash! After the alcohol has been taken from the grain, the spent mash is better feed than it was before, so someone is pulling our collective leg again.

May I mention something else? NoHelp has shared some interesting information but isn't it true that alcohol has more affinity for gasoline than for water? I have observed that you can mix alcohol/water mix with gasoline and the water falls to the bottom. Why isn't it possible to mix the brew with a calculated amount of gasoline and drain the water from the bottom? If that is possible, look at all the expensive steps eliminated. Maybe some chemist can answer this.

Yahoo had a video yesterday about someone that is adding the ethanol with their gas.
Another guy made a device where he hits a switch once he is going as fast as he wants and it cuts down on the cylinders. He claims he gets 3 times more gas mileage. He claims he gets 42 miles to a gallon

I know that people have in the past invented corn fuel and carberators and other things that get better gas mileage and the government paid them off to not market it.
My x said that his great grand dad was one of the ones that had a corn mash for fuel and they paid him off.

Well, here's a news flash! After the alcohol has been taken from the grain, the spent mash is better feed than it was before, so someone is pulling our collective leg again.

Most studies I've read say (although there are also some that dispute this )it takes more energy to convert corn to fuel than it produces. Perhaps your emissions are slightly cleaner but three is no energy savings. Also there is a problem with transportation . Because of the water thing ,it can't be piped to it's destination so it gets transported by truck ;burning even more fuel to get it to refineries. Also since E-85 burn slightly less efficiently it takes more fuel per mile to travel.

My 2 big things is that if ethanol was such a panacea then it would not need Federal subsidies to prop it up(yes also we should stop any subsidies to the oil industry also) ;and to me it is immoral to turn food into fuel to drive our cars. When cellulose ethanol from native grasses is developed then I'll certainly object less to ethanol as a small part in the move towards energy independence.

And what price independence ? As we continue to import oil we have slapped a 54 cent per gal. tariff on cheaper imported ethanol from Brazil . This artificially inflates the demand for domestic corn which artificially increases the price further .

Excon's point about demand is valid. It shows in the price of corn products and the unintended consequences of the price and availability of other products that would've been planted if the corn wasn;t being grown for fuel. One of my favorite examples is the scarcity and an increase in the price of hops has caused some specialty brewers to shut down .


The final irony is that fields that are not cultivated get plowed to grow corn . This act alone releases C02 into the atmosphere. Then the farmer uses petroleum based fertilizers and chemical pesticides to grow the corn adding to the environmental damage.

This whole thing reeks of the command and control economy's uninteded consequences on real markets. What we get is more pollution, more fuel use, and higher prices overall.

Well, my point is that the grain can be used twice. It's not like the only thing you get is either alcohol or feed, it is alcohol AND feed. You would think that would help some. Maybe?

Well, my point is that the grain can be used twice. It's not like the only thing you get is either alcohol or feed, it is alcohol AND feed. You would think that would help some. Maybe?

Well you know the government. They don't think in the most efficient terms at all. So you know it will always be either or with them.
Also like with grease from restaurants they say that it is thicker and has to be processed more. Many people that are getting their grease from restaurants for their RV's are having problems with it gumming up their fuel system.
Willie won't be singing on the road again forever I suppose.

They say that a lot of truckers are planning to park their trucks on April 4th
I think they should say they aren't going to start back until the liberals allow us to drill for our own oil and build more refineries.