A homeless couple needed a place to live. I offered my spare rooms and bathroom and said that we could share the rest of the house until they got back on their feet. They asked if I was a Christian. I said that I was raised a Christian but was now a Wiccan. They said that they could not live with me and would rather live in their car because I was not a Christian.

At first, I was hurt. Then I remembered that their attitude was part of the reason I had left the Church. I realize that belief in Christ and acceptance that He is the only way into Heaven is part of their belief system. I had told them my truth and what I believed. That we are all one and that ours is not a better way, merely a different way.

You would tell me that people are not perfect, that they make mistakes. I have had enough mistakes from Christians for now. Next time I meet someone who needs help, I will ask if they are a Christian first. Then I will decide if they are "worthy" of my help. Naah, I'd treat them as if they were family, really, I was just being sarcastic. But why, why in a million years would I want to be a Christian?

Wow, that's really strange. I would think a Christian would still except the help and declare it God working in mysterious ways. Or maybe God wanted them to reclaim your soul back to the fold.

I honestly do not know any Christians that have that attitude towards people who have different beliefs. Most of them I know are just flat out nice people. Christian or not I would have excepted the help even if you were satan himself... lol

Wow, thats really strange. I would think a Christian would still except the help and declare it God working in mysterious ways. Or maybe God wanted them to reclaim your soul back to the fold.

I honestly do not know any Christians that have that attitude towards people who have different beliefs. Most of them I know are just flat out nice people. Christian or not I would have excepted the help even if you were satan himself........lol
Accept. Except means nearly the opposite thing.

Obviously, THEY weren't Christian...

Growing up in a pretty-much-fundamentalist-Christian home, as a little kid I imagined Heaven to be populated only by people in my church. A few years later, Heaven became a hotel with one long hallway lined on both sides with closed doors labeled with the names of various Christian churches. The farther down the hall a door was, the more miserable the room. Now I work with Hindus, Muslims, atheists, agnostics, and a few professed Christians, all of whom are very loving and caring people. I've experienced a sea-change in how I think of God and Heaven and all those questions like, who am I and why am I here and where am I going after I die. All these years my God has been too small, stuffed into a little box papered with my personal wants and expectations.

I don't know why you would want to be a Christian. Many of us who say we are Christian have been doing a lousy job of it and have not been inspiring interest in those who aren't.

accept. except means nearly the opposite thing.

Whoops!!

It is almost 4 in the morning... lol

In desperate times, perhaps their faith was all they had, and in their misguided minds, anything too "foreign" was simply too much to handle. I'm christian. Never once when helping people in need have I based my help on their faith or denomination. There are likely many "good" christians (as well as good people of all faiths and belief systems)around you everyday who move through life with quiet, just intent and compassion... but a few morons is all it takes to taint the pool.

Idiots are not limited to any one denomination or belief.

A homeless couple needed a place to live. I offered my spare rooms and bathroom and said that we could share the rest of the house until they got back on their feet. They asked if I was a Christian. I said that I was raised a Christian but was now a Wiccan. They said that they could not live with me and would rather live in their car because I was not a Christian.

At first, I was hurt. Then I remembered that their attitude was part of the reason I had left the Church. I realize that belief in Christ and acceptance that He is the only way into Heaven is part of their belief system. I had told them my truth and what I believed. That we are all one and that ours is not a better way, merely a different way.

You would tell me that people are not perfect, that they make mistakes. I have had enough mistakes from Christians for now. Next time I meet someone who needs help, I will ask if they are a Christian first. Then I will decide if they are "worthy" of my help. Naah, I'd treat them as if they were family, really, I was just being sarcastic. But why, why in a million years would I want to be a Christian?

You did well, Simone!! You offered part of your privacy to help others.
That they qualified your offer inappropriate to them is their problem, not yours !!!

When there is a collection I always ask if it is for general or specific (Christian) targets.
There is always a donotion for general targets, but I do not donate to specific Christian targets.
It are the Christians who are selective there, not you, not I.

As I stated : you did well. No reason to be(come) a Christian!!

Sounds like a great couple of faith, and I would agree before I was living in a place with someone that practiced witch craft I would sleep in my car also.

You did offer to help and do a moral good for someone in need, but often we have to suffer for our faith,

I am sorry you are offended but it shows how much a Christian faith does to keep itself separate from those who practice unholy faiths

Reminds me of this:

There was a religious guy that lived near a river.
One day, the river rose over the banks and flooded the town, and he was forced to climb onto his porch roof.
While sitting there, a man in a boat comes along and tells him to get in the boat with him.
He says "No, that's ok. God will take care of me."
So, the man in the boat drives off.
The water rises, so he climbs onto his roof.
At that time, another boat comes along and the person in that one tells him to get in.
He replies, "No, that's ok. God will take care of me."
The person in the boat then leaves.
The water rises even more, and he climbs on his chimney.
Then a helicopter comes and lowers a ladder. The woman in the helicopter tells him to climb up the ladder and get in.
He tells her "That's ok."
The woman says "Are you sure?"
He says, "Yeah, I'm sure God will take care of me.
Finally, the water rises too high and he drowns.
He gets up to Heaven and is face-to-face with God.
He says to God "You told me you would take care of me! What happened?"
God replied "Well, I sent you two boats and a helicopter. What else did you want?"

A homeless couple needed a place to live. I offered my spare rooms and bathroom and said that we could share the rest of the house until they got back on their feet. They asked if I was a Christian. I said that I was raised a Christian but was now a Wiccan. They said that they could not live with me and would rather live in their car because I was not a Christian.

At first, I was hurt. Then I remembered that their attitude was part of the reason I had left the Church. I realize that belief in Christ and acceptance that He is the only way into Heaven is part of their belief system. I had told them my truth and what I believed. That we are all one and that ours is not a better way, merely a different way.

You would tell me that people are not perfect, that they make mistakes. I have had enough mistakes from Christians for now. Next time I meet someone who needs help, I will ask if they are a Christian first. Then I will decide if they are "worthy" of my help. Naah, I'd treat them as if they were family, really, I was just being sarcastic. But why, why in a million years would I want to be a Christian?
Hi, I am so sorry that you had to suffer these people, one wanders if it was their faith that left them homeless to start with!
Since when do you ask what faith a person is when there extending their hand to help you, I think you would have been perfectly reasonable if you had said that's private between myself and my God( who ever he may be) .
I am sure they will live to regret the help in hand that you so generously offered especially in today's society when you have to be extremely careful whom you invite into your home.

The only words I once had with other christians a long time ago now was on my doorstep when they started to dictate rules of their faith to me i.e you don't break bread with none believers was one, then there was the one about you don't give blood not even if your children are die-ing so on and so forth at which point I seem to recall saying something like.. so what your saying is that when your family who should be the most important people in your life needs your blood to stay alive or any one else for that matter, you wouldn't give it, they answered NO I couldn't quite grasp that and promptly asked them not to call again.They were Jehova's witnesses.(no disrespect intended)

I cannot for the life of me see where the problem is, lots of people believe in all kinds of things.. so what,that's their choice and nobody else's business. One of the biggest problems in this world is people interfering because they think they know better and very often there wrong.

Your offer was genuine and kind which is how we are all suppose to behave... TREAT YOUR NEIGHBOUR HOW YOU WOULD WISH TO BE TREATED... well done you did just that

Takecare

The only words i once had with other christians a long time ago now was on my doorstep when they started to dictate rules of their faith to me i.e you don't break bread with none believers was one, then there was the one about you don't give blood not even if your children are die-ing so on and so forth at which point i seem to recall saying something like .. so what your saying is that when your family who should be the most important people in your life needs your blood to stay alive or any one else for that matter, you wouldn't give it, they answered NO i couldn't quite grasp that and promptly asked them not to call again.They were Jehova's witnesses.(no disrespect intended)

That is the problem -people relying on a set of church rules to get them to heaven.
When the Bible talks about helping others it never says the good samaritan or the person he helped, the apostles or Paul or anybody they helped first questioned what religion do you follow. Did Jesus ask any of his disciples, Mary Magdelene or anybody he healed what religion do you follow? People are so stuck inside their mental box of how things should be from their perspective.

But why, why in a million years would I want to be a Christian?

Because it gets you into heaven, I guess?

First of all , who is a christian and what qualifies one to be a christian
Well to be a christian is simply put to be Christ like , when Jesus was here on earth his time was spent helping , healing , feeding and most importantly serving others .Jesus major role in his teachings was not as leader but as a servant , his message was one of love and compassion and his teachings was based on his divine purpose of returning lost man to forgiving father , he came and he died on a cross to take our place for sins that he did not commit
Secondly to be a christian is to confess that Jesus is lord and to believe that God raised him from the dead
Many people readily confess Christianity , but they do not live their lives according to Christ like standards

many people readily confess Christianity , but they do not live their lives according to Christ like standards
Precisely--spending time in a garage does not make you a mechanic or a car.
Sitting in a pew does not make a Christian.

Sounds like a great couple of faith, and I would agree before I was living in a place with someone that practiced witch craft I would sleep in my car also.

You did offer to help and do a moral good for someone in need, but often we have to suffer for our faith,

I am sorry you are offended but it shows how much a Christian faith does to keep itself seperate from those who practice unholy faiths

Witchcraft, Wicca is about helping others (for me anyway.) That may be "unholy" but it feels right.

By the way, I was not offended. I was hurt. I will pray for you, can't help it because you are part of me. Separation is the illusion.

Sounds like a great couple of faith, and I would agree before I was living in a place with someone that practiced witch craft I would sleep in my car also.

You did offer to help and do a moral good for someone in need, but often we have to suffer for our faith,

I am sorry you are offended but it shows how much a Christian faith does to keep itself seperate from those who practice unholy faiths

Simon did not suffer for his faith. The couple suffered by turning down the gracious offer made to them out of kindness and compassion.

It shows how the christian faith can be small minded and miss the big picture of how people should treat each other.:rolleyes:

Christianity should be judged by the standard of Jesus Christ. All of us who follow are less than perfect and should not be used as examples.

Christianity should be judged by the standard of Jesus Christ. All of us who follow are less than perfect and should not be used as examples.

That sounds like a cop out to me.

Witches scare me too. They eat babies.

Witches scare me too. They eat babies.

I thought that was atheists.

That sounds like a cop out to me.

Why should you consider it a cop out? Our government has a department of weights and standards for the sole purpose of having a perfect measurement of anything you can think of. All measuring tools are traceable back to those standards; they are as perfect as is possible with our technology.

Whatever you are doing, if you use a pattern; dress making, carpentry, or anything else, if you use the pattern to cut something and then use that second item as a pattern and continue this practice, you will soon have parts that cannot be used. You must stay with the pattern. And for Christians, that means Jesus Christ.

It sounds like a cop out because you're saying, "Jesus was great, so Christianity is great. We all want to be like Jesus, but we can't because he was just that great. We are the living representatives of our religion, and even though we sometimes totally blow the standard set forth by that really great guy, you should forget about that and still become one of us, because Jesus was just that great."

To the non-Christian it sounds like an excuse to not be "great". Maybe it's just me.

First of all , who is a christian and what qualifies one to be a christian
well to be a christian is simply put to be Christ like , when Jesus was here on earth his time was spent helping , healing , feeding and most importantly serving others .Jesus major role in his teachings was not as leader but as a servant , his message was one of love and compassion and his teachings was based on his divine purpose of returning lost man to forgiving father , he came and he died on a cross to take our place for sins that he did not commit
secondly to be a christian is to confess that Jesus is lord and to believe that God raised him from the dead
many people readily confess Christianity , but they do not live their lives according to Christ like standards

Maybe that's the trouble in a nutshell. Christ served, he helped, he healed people. The way evangilical Christian faith has always been explained to me is that the Christians are the leaders, not the helpers. While facing faith in a parental and punitive role some kids will be resentful. The trouble is that most folks who try out Christian faith are adults. (Those who can accept it wholeheartedly are children, up to a certain age.) If you don't agree with everything they propose, you're not okay-you need to be controlled. Or in some instances, you are a devil-worshipper by default.

When I was swimming in Christian faith the very thought of the devil terrified me, gave me nightmares! This fear was taught and reinforced by the Christians. They told me that Muslims were wrong, Jews had most of it wrong and witchcraft was very wrong and evil. Christians are both capable and willing to be just as mean and nasty as the next person. Gee, go figure, they're human too. So are witches, Jews, Muslims etc. Many shy away from any ideology that is like a judge and jury... If you don't accept our human interpretaion, or "our truth," you're damned.

That's attractive... Not! I prefer to have a choice and not be damned for making it. Christianity does not allow this.

the Christians... told me that Muslims were wrong, Jews had most of it wrong and witchcraft was very wrong and evil. Christians are both capable and willing to be just as mean and nasty as the next person. Gee, go figure, they're human too. So are witches, Jews, Muslims etc. Many shy away from any ideology that is like a judge and jury... If you don't accept our human interpretaion, or "our truth," you're damned.
There's a Christian song that goes something like, "And we will show them by our love." *Cough* Didn't Jesus preach love and forgiveness and acceptance? He ate with sinners and he talked to the woman (a woman! And a Samaritan on top of it) at the well.


Christianity does not allow this.
You've been floating around in the wrong boat.

Dear Simone, Not only why should you reject Christianity, but why believe in anything "supernatural" at all?

IN order to *believe* in a religion, a person has to suspend his or her rational disbelief in the laws of nature... that is harmful to a person's thinking process because the idea that it is OK to claim one's belief as fact, not only in religious matters but everyday conversation about politics and biology, for example, is very destructive to understanding and living in reality. Taken to the extreme, the religious think their opinions are fact.

Secular humanism is a wonderful way to structure a life of service to others with high ethical standards. :)

Dear Simone, Not only why should you reject Christianity, but why believe in anything "supernatural" at all?

IN order to *believe* in a religion, a person has to suspend his or her rational disbelief in the laws of nature....that is harmful to a person's thinking process because the idea that it is ok to claim one's belief as fact, not only in religious matters but everyday conversation about politics and biology, for example, is very destructive to understanding and living in reality. Taken to the extreme, the religious think their opinions are fact.

Secular humanism is a wonderful way to structure a life of service to others with high ethical standards. :)

Always the voice of reason. Great post!:)

Thank you. :)

It sounds like a cop out because you're saying, "Jesus was great, so Christianity is great. We all want to be like Jesus, but we can't because he was just that great. We are the living representatives of our religion, and even though we sometimes totally blow the standard set forth by that really great guy, you should forget about that and still become one of us, because Jesus was just that great."

To the non-Christian it sounds like an excuse to not be "great". Maybe it's just me.

That is just it. We all have some inner desire to be "good" or the best that we can be.
Everyone, Christians included, falls short of that ideal, and sometimes Christians give the impression that there are all these rules to be followed as a means of attaining goodness.
No Christian is "perfect" to his fellow person, and they inevitable end up being hypocritical. This is legalism, what Jesus was against, all these pharisaical rules.

It is exactly this realization that I am not so "great," that is, a sinner: and that Jesus died for the forgiveness of my sins that led me to Christ. Like the song "Just as I am" or the wretch In "Amazing Grace":)
















G&p

That is just it. We all have some inner desire to be "good" or the best that we can be.
Everyone, Christians included, falls short of that ideal, and sometimes Christians give the impression that there are all these rules to be followed as a means of attaining goodness.
No Christian is "perfect" to his fellow person, and they inevitable end up being hypocritical. This is legalism, what Jesus was against, all these pharisaical rules.

It is exactly this realization that I am not so "great," that is, a sinner: and that Jesus died for the forgiveness of my sins that led me to Christ. Like the song "Just as I am" or the wretch In "Amazing Grace":)

G&p

But surely you realize the attitude and manner of many Christians and their dismissal of their hypocritical behavior turns others off, right? For example - Chrissy Christian is against premarital sex. She tells me I'm going to hell for having premarital sex. Then she has premarital sex, but she says she's not going to hell because she's "saved" or because she prayed for forgivness. Me? Oh, I'm still going to hell, because I'm not saved. In the mean time, Chrissy Christian continues to have premarital sex, but insists she is going to heaven. She's using her belief in Jesus/God to legitimize her behavior, instead of trying to hold herself to the standard her religion calls for.

So yes, she might have the desire to be "good", and she might fall short sometimes, but there is a difference between the occasional slip up and continuing the negative behavior, or, just in general, being a bad person.

Those are the people who give Christians a bad name. Not the ones who once in a while make a mistake - we all make mistakes. But the ones who continue to make those mistakes, continue to make poor choices, pass judgement, and are just overall bad people, but they clain "goodness" because they are Christian. Chrissy in my example is the living face of your religion - and she's not doing a very good job of making it appealing.

Agreed:

But in the example you use, we don't know if "Chrissy Christian" may have repented from drugs, robbery, assault and is in the sanctifying process of repenting from sexual promiscuity.

That is between her and God.

Righteousness before God is ours by grace - Jesus' death and resurrection. Not by the pride of our "good works."




g&p

Agreed:

But in the example you use, we don't know if "Chrissy Christian" may have repented from drugs, robbery, assault and is in the sanctifying process of repenting from sexual promiscuity.

That is between her and God.

Righteousness before God is ours by grace - Jesus' death and resurrection. Not by the pride of our "good works."

g&p

So if she's in the process of repenting, it's OK? There we are - right back to "cop out".

Additionally, your statement about righteousness can easly be taken to mean, "Jesus died for me, my works don't matter. I can do whatever I want because Jesus died for me and I'm 'saved'." Again, right back to "cop out".

2 Pet 3:16
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
(KJV)

Even the Bible tells us that it is possible for us to twist scriptures so that they fit our personal agenda.

Not a good thing for us to do!

That's sick.
I'm a Christian, and those people should be ashamed.

You know what, I'm not a Christian, I'm a beleiver. I hate religion, I love my God. I don't go to church, because I don't believe in listening to a guy preach at me, I stay at home with my family and we look at the bible for OURSELVES.

Those people are wrong and need to get their facts strait.
I'm such a strong beleiver and I love God more then anything, he is my savior, my life, but I don't blame you, and if I wherent a Christian myself, and didn't have this amazing sightful family, I wouldn't want to be a Christian either.

I'm ashamed of the church, and of all the ways they twist the bible to suit them.

God is the one true leader, if you want to change his word to suit your perfect little life, you should be ashamed and not bother at all.

Sounds like a great couple of faith, and I would agree before I was living in a place with someone that practiced witch craft I would sleep in my car also.

You did offer to help and do a moral good for someone in need, but often we have to suffer for our faith,

I am sorry you are offended but it shows how much a Christian faith does to keep itself seperate from those who practice unholy faiths

Unholy faiths in YOUR opinion. You don't have to be a Christian to have a good moral code. And you don't necessarily have a good moral code if you proclaim yourself to be a Christian. I was baptized as a Christian at age 7. But I would not call myself a Christian today. Christianity is so EXclusive. So contingent and so conditional. In MY opinion, that is a bad thing. :rolleyes:

I thought that was atheists.

I thought that was dingos!:D

Dear Simone, Not only why should you reject Christianity, but why believe in anything "supernatural" at all?

IN order to *believe* in a religion, a person has to suspend his or her rational disbelief in the laws of nature....that is harmful to a person's thinking process because the idea that it is ok to claim one's belief as fact, not only in religious matters but everyday conversation about politics and biology, for example, is very destructive to understanding and living in reality. Taken to the extreme, the religious think their opinions are fact.

Secular humanism is a wonderful way to structure a life of service to others with high ethical standards. :)

To proclaim that your belief is a cold hard fact , that all should follow is arrogance , in my humble opinion. ;)

Us and them, a lonely, separatist illusion.

I thought that was dingos!:D

So why did the poor dingos get a serve?