As I listened to Obama address Republican fears, educating people in general to our country's racist history past and the hope of the future, I couldn't help but think of the past few days I spent, a person of Jewish extraction trying to relate to mostly Republican white Christians and agnostics on the dynamics of the African-American community. Those of Democratic Christian persuasion, time and time again understand Christianity in the historical perspective better than their counter parts of Republican constituency. IMO this is yet another reason blacks are more likely to vote Democrat. Even Republican news commentators on Fox gave him high marks for addressing anti-Obama concerns. Here again was proof of optimistic change challenging the old establishment that has entrenched politics as usual.

Here again was proof of optimistic change challenging the old establishment that has entrenched politics as usual.I think that's the salient point.

Those of Democratic Christian persuasion, time and time again understand Christianity in the historical perspective better than their counter parts of Republican constituency.

Please explain the historical perspective that I evidently lack .

One can read the entire text or watch the video of the speech here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/18/obama-race-speech-read-t_n_92077.html).

John McCain represents the past. Clinton, stagnation. Obama, the future.

Yeah, but what is that future he so strongly wants to lead us to? Do you know in any terms rather than wild abstractions…give me something concrete about this new path to walk on into a new future?

Bobby,

Like tom I'm not sure what "historical perspective" I lack, nor did I know there was a Democratic and Republican element of Christianity. We don't go to church and discuss politics, it's never mentioned from the pulpit of my church. We don't go to church and wonder who is a Democrat and who is a Republican. We don't go to church and discuss racial issues, we speak of how everyone is loved in God's eyes. We don't care if you're white, black, Hispanic, Asian or whatever, how you dress, how many tattoos or piercings you have, you're welcome there. We have regular members of all colors, backgrounds, economic status - just about anyone you can imagine. We give to support not only ministries to every area of the globe, but to provide basic needs regardless of who or where you are. We affiliate, worship and work with black churches, white churches and Hispanic churches in our city, and the only slogan I could possibly imagine that we might use similar to Obama's church is "unapologetically Christian."

That is how a church should be, and I imagine more than a few people are shocked to know that Jeremiah Wright's kind of divisive, hateful bilge is being spewed from pulpits across America in the name of Jesus Christ. It's no surprise to me but I'm sure it's been an education for many, and it isn't a pretty one.

Obama has also taught us that preferential treatment to blacks is expected. We can't treat black sin equally as white sin, a Don Imus or Geraldine Ferraro must be expelled and shunned for their slight sins. A racist preacher and his star pupil not only need understanding, forgiveness and acceptance, we must crown the pupil as the only hope of bridging the divide after lying to us about what he knew. We must look past the irony of understanding and embracing the "historical perspective" in order to move to the future with Obama. Here's a hint for Obama, "It's but little good you'll do a-watering the last year's crops. ~George Eliot."

Conservatives have rightly called Obama on this while the liberal media ignored it for as long as they could. All is forgiven now that as ABC radio news put it, "Barack Obama confronts racism today." I've been past racism since childhood, what's taking everyone else so long? When we rid ourselves of the Wrights and other race baiters, and when blacks understand the Democrats are invested in keeping racial fires burning, maybe then we can "move on."

Yep, it's been a real education.

The sharp folks at Sweetness & Light give a perfect example of the inequality and double standards (http://sweetness-light.com/archive/obama-first-to-call-for-imus-firing-for-racism) that Obama stands for:


Obama: Fire Imus

Obama First White House Contender to Call for Imus’ Firing Over Racial Slur

By JAKE TAPPER

April 11, 2007—In an interview with ABC News Wednesday afternoon, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill. called for the firing of talk radio host Don Imus. Obama said he would never again appear on Imus’ show, which is broadcast on CBS Radio and MSNBC television.

“I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus,” Obama told ABC News, “but I would also say that there’s nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude.”

Obama said he appeared once on Imus’ show two years ago, and “I have no intention of returning.”

Last week, Imus referred to the Rutgers University women’s basketball team, most of whom are African-American, as “nappy-headed hos.” He has since apologized for his remarks, and CBS and MSNBC suspended his show for two weeks.

“He didn’t just cross the line,” Obama said. “He fed into some of the worst stereotypes that my two young daughters are having to deal with today in America. The notions that as young African-American women — who I hope will be athletes — that that somehow makes them less beautiful or less important. It was a degrading comment. It’s one that I’m not interested in supporting.”

Though every major presidential candidate has decried the racist remarks, Obama is the first one to say Imus should lose his job for them…

“What we’ve been seeing around this country is this constant ratcheting up of a coarsening of the culture that all of have to think about,” Obama said.

“Insults, humor that degrades women, humor that is based in racism and racial stereotypes isn’t fun,” the senator told ABC News.

“And the notion that somehow it’s cute or amusing, or a useful diversion, I think, is something that all of us have to recognize is just not the case. We all have First Amendment rights. And I am a constitutional lawyer and strongly believe in free speech, but as a culture, we really have to do some soul-searching to think about what kind of toxic information are we feeding our kids,” he concluded.

I wonder how much toxic information was fed to his two daughters at his church.

please explain the historical perspective that I evidently lack .

The Black theology part. What else have you been missing? May I suggest Ginko Bolaba? Does wonders for the memory.

OK then I'm willing to learn . What is it about black separatist liberation 'theology 'that is not racist ?

ok then I'm willing to learn . what is it about black separatist liberation 'theology 'that is not racist ?

I see you missed part of Barack's educational lecture on history. Here's what I wrote a few days back on the very same subject, Black Theology: "A theology, that was a counter to what I'd describe as hundreds of years of White theology. This stems from a time when slavery was the norm for parts of the US, and black men begin to question what kind of Christians were white slave owners that taught all men were created equal?! From this, today, the message still carries liberal implications on the political front."



Like tom I'm not sure what "historical perspective" I lack, nor did I know there was a Democratic and Republican element of Christianity. We don't go to church and discuss politics, it's never mentioned from the pulpit of my church..

Whoa! Stop right there! I can't read any further into your reply. I can't believe you actually wrote that. You found the one Christian church in America not influenced, persuaded, of political ramifications ever? Next your going to tell me the pastor and congregants don't vote? The view of pro-life has never been raised in your church? The view of helping humanity is of no consequence of subject in services? Freedom of religion means nothing to your pastor? Freedom of speech? What the hell! Whole colleges have been formed, some religious, that are adjoined to secular academics. Strong-willed good men became civil lawyers after being raised as children in the environment of churches and synagogues, just to promote the rights of all. Presidential candidates have made remark after remark about their religious upbringing. I'm just astonished at some of the arguments and excuses made by my peers. All I can say is, "WOW!" I'm going to try and let this forgetful moment wear-off and then maybe I'll check back in later after reading some other threads. WOW!

Way to go Bobby. You nailed it!

Whoa! Stop right there! I can't read any further into your reply. I can't believe you actually wrote that. You found the one Christian church in America not influenced, persuaded, of political ramifications ever?

Now that's fair, Bobby. First, I'm speaking of what Christianity is about, and Wright's theology is not it. Second, I think I know more of what my church is like and about than anyone else here. I'm not here to lie about it and I darn sure know what a Christian church should be about, I've experienced both the good and bad - but nothing like Wright offers.


Next your going to tell me the pastor and congregants don't vote? The view of pro-life has never been raised in your church? The view of helping humanity is of no consequence of subject in services?

Of course the issue of life has been raised in my church, theologically, not politically. I've already said helping humanity is what we're also about, free from political influence and bias.


Freedom of religion means nothing to your pastor? Freedom of speech? What the hell! Whole colleges have been formed, some religious, that are adjoined to secular academics. Strong-willed good men became civil lawyers after being raised as children in the environment of churches and synagogues, just to promote the rights of all. Presidential candidates have made remark after remark about their religious upbringing. I'm just astonished at some of the arguments and excuses made by my peers. All I can say is, "WOW!" I'm going to try and let this forgetful moment wear-off and then maybe I'll check back in later after reading some other threads. WOW!

How does what our rights may mean to my pastor necessitate political ramblings from him in the pulpit? Exercising them does not mean he must be offering political rantings from his pulpit, but I think you know that.

Yes, I listened and was scared to death, for 20 years he went to a church, was married by the pastor, and so on, and he did not know what the pastor stood for ?

God help us if he has to choose a Supreme Court Judge if he does not know what his own Pastor stands for.

And of course Obama did not actually address the issues if he believed in what his pastor taugh, and if not why did he continue to go to that church. Even a answer like it was good for his politial carrier.

And I did not know that the Democratic Christians stood for rasist teachings and radical hatred for their country, I guess if they support what Obamas pastor was teaching, that sure explains a lot.

I would say that those that actually want equal rights and actually want the races to get along, have no place with anyone associated with this pastors hatred and rasism.

And it has noting to do with Christianity, since Christianity is not rasist in any terms, and of course Jesus was jewish, from the house of David.

Now that's fair, Bobby. First, I'm speaking of what Christianity is about, and Wright's theology is not it. Second, I think I know more of what my church is like and about than anyone else here. I'm not here to lie about it and I darn sure know what a Christian church should be about, I've experienced both the good and bad - but nothing like Wright offers. Of course the issue of life has been raised in my church, theologically, not politically. I've already said helping humanity is what we're also about, free from political influence and bias. How does what our rights may mean to my pastor necessitate political ramblings from him in the pulpit? Exercising them does not mean he must be offering political rantings from his pulpit, but I think you know that.


I'm just in wonderment that a pastor in the US could neglect one for the other. A pastor that lives by the laws of the land, which was afforded to us by the Noachide laws. I will not go into the history from a Jewish perspective, but I'm shocked that a pastor appears unaware of Biblical studies. My friend, you're not understanding that Wright affixed his opinion, his view, that he piggy backed on "Black Theology." BTW Obama addressed that today. The theology itself is fairly sound. It's not the theology that is at fault for the comments that you, I, and Obama denounces. Black Theology is taught by many churches, mainly made up of African American congregants, but some Caucasians as well.

I'm just in wonderment that a pastor in the US could neglect one for the other. A pastor that lives by the laws of the land, which was afforded to us by the Noachide laws. I will not go into the history from a Jewish perspective, but I'm shocked that a pastor appears unaware of Biblical studies. My friend, you're not understanding that Wright affixed his personal opinion, his view, that he piggy backed on "Black Theology." BTW Obama addressed that today. The theology itself is fairly sound. It's not the theology that is at fault for the comments that you, I, and Obama denounces. Black Theology is taught by many churches, mainly made up of African American congregants, but some Caucasians as well.

Here is the point I neglected to make, Bobby. We view our church as an oasis... we not only go there to worship and serve God, but to escape from the world's stresses, to get away from the politics and nonsense we live with every day. Why would we - or any other worshiper - want to bring that into our sanctuary? That's what shocks and amazes me, that anyone, left, right or center, would want to turn their sanctuary into a political cauldron and that anyone would put up with the hateful, conspiratorial, racist, over the top toxins of a pastor like Wright in the very place they should be going that's free from that sort of thing. I get more than enough of that elsewhere, I darn sure don't want in my 'oasis.' That my pastor sees to it that it is an oasis focused on God speaks highly of his biblical understanding that God is love, peace, rest for our spirit.

Yes, I listened and was scared to death, for 20 years he went to a church, was married by the pastor, and so on, and he did not know what the pastor stood for ?

God help us if he has to choose a Supreme Court Judge if he does not know what his own Pastor stands for.

And of course Obama did not actually adress the issues if he believed in what his pastor taugh, and if not why did he continue to go to that church. Even a answer like it was good for his politial carrier.

And I did not know that the Democratic Christians stood for rasist teachings and radical hatred for thier country, I guess if they support what Obamas pastor was teaching, that sure explains alot.

I would say that those that actually want equal rights and actually want the races to get along, have no place with anyone associated with this pastors hatred and rasism.

And it has noting to do with Christianity, since Christianity is not rasist in any terms, and of course Jesus was jewish, from the house of David.


I'm hearing about fear that I think is unwarranted. My concerns are recent economics and that's real to most of us, regardless of color. Wright's not running for president, no more than Hagee. Obama did address the issue of Wright's mistaken views today. Perhaps you have the sound down on the TV, or missed relevant parts of the lecture. And about racism it's not something for us to neglect. Other than Ferraro's recent gaff, I don't think Democrats are under fire for racism here though. One more thing, provided that Jesus even existed under the guise of messiah, it's less important that he was Jewish by ethnicity. Moshiach has specific qualifications and according to Judaism, and IMO looking back at the last two thousand years, Jesus didn't meet the criteria. But I understand that you believe that Jesus, according to Christianity, should have no place in racism. On that I agree and respect.


Here is the point I neglected to make, Bobby. We view our church as an oasis...we not only go there to worship and serve God, but to escape from the world's stresses, to get away from the politics and nonsense we live with every day. Why would we - or any other worshiper - want to bring that into our sanctuary? That's what shocks and amazes me, that anyone, left, right or center, would want to turn their sanctuary into a political cauldron and that anyone would put up with the hateful, conspiratorial, racist, over the top toxins of a pastor like Wright in the very place they should be going that's free from that sort of thing. I get more than enough of that elsewhere, I darn sure don't want in my 'oasis.' That my pastor sees to it that it is an oasis focused on God speaks highly of his biblical understanding that God is love, peace, rest for our spirit.


I can understand that, but it's a church, in the US, not a monk monastery in Tibet. Which BTW monks are not so quite now-in-days. Black churches have had more challenges than predominately non-black churches considering issues in society. OK. I'm getting the idea here that African-American churches and Jewish shuls have more in common with social issues than other Christian congregations.


Yeah, but what is that future he so strongly wants to lead us to? Do you know in any terms rather than wild abstractions…give me something concrete about this new path to walk on into a new future?

I'm not sure you were asking NeedKarma in Canada, or me? I think it's fairly clear that if NeedKarma could vote it would be for Obama. However, as a US citizen, I can vote and think you've asked a good question.

Most of Obama's main opposition is coming from McCain and Clinton supporters and early on they have focused on three arguments: 1) Obama gives great speeches, but no substance or 2) he doesn't disclose (share) specific views on the issues or 3) he lacks experience to be president.

All three are absurd tactics.

1.) Obama is an educated speaker, no doubt. Both McCain and Clinton are jealous to have Obama's talent. When the opposition brings this up, it's rather a foolish ploy that in actuality means that both McCain and Clinton lack Obama's communication skills. My future is with the communicator.


2.) None of the candidates have given specifics to numerous issues while on stints campaigning. However, I outlined Obama's take on Israel in another post: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/politic...er-183587.html. We have learned that McCain would keep on the warpath for one hundred years, and that by his own admission, even though our country is in the midst of a recession the economy issue is not his strongest subject. All the candidates, including Obama, have several websites covering information on most of the top issues and I think we all know how to use the search engine. When the two major party's finally get their nomination represented in the general election they will debate, discuss, and dissect the issues on National TV. Tune in. My future is with someone level headed enough to provide diplocmacy that we have been sorely lacking.

Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In | Issues (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/)

Barack Obama on the Issues (http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Barack_Obama.htm)

Barack Obama: On the Issues | Presidential Election 2008 - Candidate Profiles, Photos, Quizzes and More | Reader's Digest (http://www.rd.com/national-interest/election-2008/barack-obama-on-the-issues/article.html)

Barack Obama - Issues & Ideas - 2008 Presidential Candidate - National Platforms (http://www.nationalplatforms.com/candidates/barack_obama.html)

Election Center 2008: Candidates - Election & Politics News from CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/candidates/barack.obama.html)



3.) Last time I checked none of these front-runners have had presidential experience: Hillary Clinton, John McCain, and Barack Obama are all senators. My future is with the highly educated senator that was a civil rights lawyer and understands the challenge to overcome divisiveness.

Barack Obama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama)

As I listened to Obama address Republican fears, educating people in general to our country's racist history past and the hope of the future, I couldn't help but think of the past few days I spent, a person of Jewish extraction trying to relate to mostly Republican white Christians and agnostics on the dynamics of the African-American community. Those of Democratic Christian persuasion, time and time again understand Christianity in the historical perspective better than their counter parts of Republican constituency. IMO this is yet another reason blacks are more likely to vote Democrat. Even Republican news commentators on Fox gave him high marks for addressing anti-Obama concerns. Here again was proof of optimistic change challenging the old establishment that has entrenched politics as usual.
And here's some more things to educate Americans with.
Newsmax.com - Obama Minister&#39s Hatred of America (http://newsmax.com/kessler/obama_minister_wright/2008/03/06/78440.html)

And here's some more things to educate Americans with.
Newsmax.com - Obama Minister&#39s Hatred of America (http://newsmax.com/kessler/obama_minister_wright/2008/03/06/78440.html)


Hi Sky-

That's old news, but exactly why Obama publicly re-addressed his own thoughts concerning Wright's opinion. I hope you didn't discard the eduction for Republican biases.

Hi Sky-

That's old news, but exactly why Obama publically re-addressed his own thoughts concerning Wright's opinion. I hope you didn't discard the eduction for Republican biases.
Don't fool yourself. Nothing is "old" news in hot politics! Let's just let the facts speak for itself as this issue continues to unwind and prove to be a revelation for all Americans. Why the "liberal media" has not addressed the Wright issue is what matters most in my opinion. When someone like Obama stays with a church like Wright's for 20 years and doesn't get out while the going is good is beyond me. However, now when the heat is on with the expose' of Wright and his hate-filled speech of America, suddenly Obama is conveniently "distancing" himself from him. Ummm, better give some thought to that! Could the fact that he listened to Wright for so long a time have contributed to Obama not wanting to place his hand over his heart when the Pledge of Allegiance is being said? Or his not wanting to wear an American flag pin? Enough said. Neither Hillary nor McCain would do these things that seriously hurt America and all patriotic Americans.

Obama not wanting to place his hand over his heart when the Pledge of Allegiance is being said?

There's a photo of everyone with hand over heart and saying the pledge and Pres. Bush has his hands over his crotch. What does THAT mean?

Don't fool yourself. Nothing is "old" news in hot politics! Let's just let the facts speak for itself as this issue continues to unwind and prove to be a revelation for all Americans. Why the "liberal media" has not addressed the Wright issue is what matters most imho. When someone like Obama stays with a church like Wright's for 20 years and doesn't get out while the going is good is beyond me. However, now when the heat is on with the expose' of Wright and his hate-filled speech of America, suddenly Obama is conveniently "distancing" himself from him. Ummm, better give some thought to that! Could the fact that he listened to Wright for so long a time have contributed to Obama not wanting to place his hand over his heart when the Pledge of Allegiance is being said? Or his not wanting to wear an American flag pin? Enough said. Neither Hillary nor McCain would do these things that seriously hurt America and all patriotic Americans.

Your about 5 threads too late! Keep up!

Don't fool yourself. Nothing is "old" news in hot politics! Let's just let the facts speak for itself as this issue continues to unwind and prove to be a revelation for all Americans. Why the "liberal media" has not addressed the Wright issue is what matters most imho. When someone like Obama stays with a church like Wright's for 20 years and doesn't get out while the going is good is beyond me. However, now when the heat is on with the expose' of Wright and his hate-filled speech of America, suddenly Obama is conveniently "distancing" himself from him. Ummm, better give some thought to that! Could the fact that he listened to Wright for so long a time have contributed to Obama not wanting to place his hand over his heart when the Pledge of Allegiance is being said? Or his not wanting to wear an American flag pin? Enough said. Neither Hillary nor McCain would do these things that seriously hurt America and all patriotic Americans.


Liberal media? Are you a Rush Windbag missionary? Really! Both CNN and Fox networks have been on Obama like white on rice. Hell there's days I don't want to say the pledge of allegiance either. I hate politicians that want to fake their feelings and gloss over reality. Maybe we should change the pledge of allegiance to the pledge of recession. There's some days I don't even try to fool myself. I just think what the hell happened to my America... it's now the land of ignorance and blabber mouth Republican commentators. Oh! At three o'clock in the morning and someone gets a call, I sure don't want Hillary answering that phone. She's going to be busy trying figure out where her husband's hiding anyway. And dialing up McCain will only rack up long distance charges, his residency will be in Iraq for the next one hundred years. I sure hope he does the patriotic thing and moves there even if he doesn't win the presidency. Go McCain, go.

Don't fool yourself. Nothing is "old" news in hot politics! Let's just let the facts speak for itself as this issue continues to unwind and prove to be a revelation for all Americans. Why the "liberal media" has not addressed the Wright issue is what matters most imho. When someone like Obama stays with a church like Wright's for 20 years and doesn't get out while the going is good is beyond me. However, now when the heat is on with the expose' of Wright and his hate-filled speech of America, suddenly Obama is conveniently "distancing" himself from him. Ummm, better give some thought to that! Could the fact that he listened to Wright for so long a time have contributed to Obama not wanting to place his hand over his heart when the Pledge of Allegiance is being said? Or his not wanting to wear an American flag pin? Enough said. Neither Hillary nor McCain would do these things that seriously hurt America and all patriotic Americans.

You really believe all those scam emails that are circulating? I thought you were smarter than that.

You really believe all those scam emails that are circulating? I thought you were smarter than that.

Its sad when we are proven wrong isn't it.

Still you did not answer my question about black liberation theology that Rev Wright preaches ;which is much different;more contemporary than the black theology that you say I don't understand. OF course the black church has always been rooted in a sort of political activism .There really was not choice but to organize politically from the pulpit.

To understand it you have to understand the teachings of Rev Wright's mentors James Hal Cone and Dwight Hopkins .(when interviewed by Sean Hannity Rev Wright continuosly mentioned James Cone and Hopkins ) Black liberation theology is rooted in racism as much as any Ayrian "church" .

Bobby ; Both Jew and Christian believe that the worse things that have happened to us is part of God's plan even ifwe do not understand God's purpose. Cone et al reject that argument. They think either God is with them or against them and have created a separate God who fulfills their needs.


Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love. James Cone.

Here is another snippet from Cone


In the New Testament, Jesus is not for all, but for the oppressed, the poor and unwanted of society, and against oppressors... Either God is for black people in their fight for liberation and against the white oppressors, or he is not
God is for the oppressed only .

The question is ;how does black liberation theology influence Obama ? If he is this uniter he claims to be I do not understand how he can square that with a faith that is rooted in the separation and frankly the hate of one race.

Still you did not answer my question about black liberation theology that Rev Wright preaches ;which is much different;more contemporary than the black theology that you say I don't understand. OF course the black church has always been rooted in a sort of political activism .There really was not choice but to organize politically from the pulpit.

To understand it you have to understand the teachings of Rev Wright's mentors James Hal Cone and Dwight Hopkins .(when interviewed by Sean Hannity Rev Wright continuosly mentioned James Cone and Hopkins ) Black liberation theology is rooted in racism as much as any Ayrian "church" .


James Cone.

Here is another snippet from Cone


God is for the oppressed only .

I can just see you trying to to teach Black Theology. A class room full of African-Americans look up at the old white guy professor as they scratch their heads saying amongst themselves, "being separate from white Christian slave owners that beat us and raped our women, is a bad thing?!" Again Tom you're not understanding the fact that "Black Theology" and "Wrights personal views affixed to the theology" are apples and oranges. This is almost as silly as those whom deny the Holocaust. They are known history revisionist. Again your proving my earlier point that Republican Christians are less likely to understand the African-American communities, than their religious peers in Democrat Christians. Just another reason why most blacks vote Democrat.



The question is ;how does black liberation theology influence Obama?

I hope it influenced him greatly. Obama was a civil lawyer. I respect the reasoning of Black Theology, it's based on social issues that lead to eventual construction. What ignorant Caucasian "Republican" Fox news commentators like Sean Hannity do not understand the difference between Black theology and Wrights personal views. Hell even that Republican black news commentators understood. See this is how educated people function in life. BTW Obama re-addressed this for the umpteenth time yesterday. Hannity appears more bitter lately than an old white geezer plantation owner that just got news of the proclamation of emancipation.


If he is this uniter he claims to be I do not understand how he can square that with a faith that is rooted in the separation and frankly the hate of one race.

No you didn't? Well I had to read that twice! You did! That took some gumption to try and slip that one by me. Obama is now a racist in your view? Obama genetics reads like the United Nations. The guy has no hate towards any race. One side of his family is a white as yours. You're desperate remarks are becoming less reasonable than palatable.



Both Jew and Christian believe that the worse things that have happened to us is part of God's plan even ifwe do not understand God's purpose. Cone et al reject that argument. They think either God is with them or against them and have created a separate God who fulfills their needs.


That's exactly why Black Thoeology came about. Black men questioned their white "proclaimed Christian" slave owners about equality of being human. Those white slave owners were not serving G-d, they were serving themselves.

I can understand that, but it's a church, in the US, not a monk monastery in Tibet. Which BTW monks are not so quite now-in-days. Black churches have had more challenges than predominately non-black churches considering issues in society. OK. I'm getting the idea here that African-American churches and Jewish shuls have more in common with social issues than other Christian congregations.

I understand that blacks have had more challenges, no doubt, but this 2008, not 1968. I also think there is a difference between addressing social issues and political rants. Of course we address social issues, do you think our kids go to church and not hear messages about sex, dating, depression, drugs, abortion, etc. Or that we don't address alcoholism, marriage, divorce, violence, domestic abuse, and yes, racism? Of course we do, we address the physical, emotional, spiritual and even financial aspects - we minister to the needs of the people. And that is our purpose, to love, minister, heal.

There are also parachurch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parachurch) organizations that address homelessness, racism, equality, rights, legal issues, etc. Are they mentioned from the pulpit? Of course, we can't support them if we don't know they exist or what their mission is. Does a presentation by CareNet mean we're getting political? Not necessarily. Do white churches get political? Absolutely, as do individuals within the church, but when I say "we" I mean my church and I stand by what I said the first time, "we" go there to worship and meet the needs of the people - we don't rant about Bill and Monica and government conspiracies.

What's ironic is just when the left has celebrated the alleged demise of conservative evangelical influence in politics, and after 8 years of slamming Bush and his mixture of religion and politics - we're supposed to have understanding toward Obama, not concern ourselves with how his faith and his pastor may influence his politics and cheer the defense of his relationship with the man. I see a tremendous double standard here, Bobby.

What's ironic is just when the left has celebrated the alleged demise of conservative evangelical influence in politics, and after 8 years of slamming Bush and his mixture of religion and politics - we're supposed to have understanding toward Obama, not concern ourselves with how his faith and his pastor may influence his politics and cheer the defense of his relationship with the man. I see a tremendous double standard here, Bobby.

To be perfectly honest, other than the fact that Bush targeted the Bible Belt heavily in both elections, I'm not sure what personal view of Christianity he understands. I hear him use innuendo about faith and G-d occasionally in speeches. At one time I think he referenced he heard from G-d concerning war. Personally I think he hears from himself; some of his decisions have proved disastrous.

Bobby I keep on trying differentiate between black theology and black liberation theology .I showed thje difference and you are unwilling to see it. Instead you justify anything the loon Wright says based on some kind of historical injustice that is completely besides the point.

I have decided to unsubscribe to all these Obama postings related to his pastor and his participation in this racist church. Obama is trying to be the President of all the people .My advice to him would be to disassociate himself to this because as his speech proved yesterday ;he is more than willing to throw his white grandma under the bus to cater to a narrow constituency .

I wonder if Obama knows about the New Black Panther Party (http://my.barackobama.com/page/dashboard/public/gGrXCt) page of my.BarackObama? You can view their 10 Point Platform here (http://www.newblackpanther.com/10pointplatform.html).

Bobby I keep on trying differentiate between black theology and black liberation theology .I showed thje difference and you are unwilling to see it. Instead you justify anything the loon Wright says based on some kind of historical injustice that is completely besides the point.

I have decided to unsubscribe to all these Obama postings related to his pastor and his participation in this racist church. Obama is trying to be the President of all the people .My advice to him would be to disassociate himself to this because as his speech proved yesterday ;he is more than willing to throw his white grandma under the bus to cater to a narrow constituency .


Tom, you can unsubscribe if you like. It's nothing personal, we just disagree. IMO Obama is very educated and brings a broader understanding that some are not yet willing to accept. Maybe our society is not fully ready and obviously he has his detractors. I like him though and if he doesn't become our next president, so be it.

NEW BLACK PANTHER PARTY represents Freedom, Justice, and Peace for all of Mankind. Welcome to the Official Website of The New Black Panther Party for Self Defense (http://www.newblackpanther.com)

And your point would be?

And your point would be??

It was a simple question. Does he know? Does he care? Is he proud of their endorsement or will he distance himself, renounce their platform and banish them from his website? I'm curious, aren't you?

Huh? Does John McCain know about the KKK or a gillion other extreme groups? Pinch me! Are these real questions?

It was a simple question. Does he know? Does he care? Is he proud of their endorsement or will he distance himself, renounce their platform and banish them from his website? I'm curious, aren't you?
I am content to wait and see what happens as this looks like a public forum, as anyone can join. Free publicity if you have a cause.

Join the Network

Not a member? Would you like to have your own My.BarackObama.Com page? Join the Network! (http://my.barackobama.com/page/dashboard/private/GMC)

Huh?! Does John McCain know about the KKK or a gillion other extreme groups? Pinch me! Are these real questions?

LOL, Bobby, read the question. Has the KKK endorsed McCain and joined the McCainSpace (http://www.johnmccain.com/Connecting/) online community? As far I know they haven't, unlike the New Black Panther Party which has endorsed Obama and joined the my.Barack.com online community. I just wonder if Obama knows that and welcomes their endorsement. After this past week he might want to look into that.

Instead you justify anything the loon Wright says based on some kind of historical injustice that is completely besides the point.


Sounds like what you guys do with Mr Bush.



I have decided to unsubscribe to all these Obama postings related to his pastor and his participation in this racist church. Obama is trying to be the President of all the people .My advice to him would be to disassociate himself to this because as his speech proved yesterday ;he is more than willing to throw his white grandma under the bus to cater to a narrow constituency .

Your just taking your bat and ball and going home because Bobby is giving you an ar$e whooping and you don't like it! Come on Tom, your better than that. Your one of the best here at making your point. Just because others may be making a better one doesn't mean you have to run!

Your just taking your bat and ball and going home because Bobby is giving you an ar$e whooping and you dont like it! Come on Tom, your better than that. Your one of the best here at making your point. Just because others may be making a better one doesnt mean you have to run!
In your opinion; my opinion is much different:

Racism is itself a central doctrine in traditional Judaism and Black Liberation Theology…the breathtaking arrogance of both.

EDIT: I will add Islam to that.

Add any religion to that as far as I'm concerned.

Your about 5 threads too late! Keep up!

I am keeping up. This matter will simply NOT go away, it can't. It's simply too important for the American people to know and understand about Obama. He may try hiding behind sheep's clothing at this point but he can't deny staying with the good Rev. for 20 years and hearing him espouse his hateful rhetoric and not leaving until just recently, that is, if he even really did that. It's not something one can say... aww, the little child didn't know any better. Obama opened this door by not wanting to walk out on Wright while he still had the chance and *denounce* him for his anti-American stance. Instead, he had him as his Spiritual Advisor until he was CAUGHT by the media! And now, he wants us to believe that he is so against what Wright stood up for and he supported for all these years? Guess this is the kind of CHANGE He Was Talking About that He Wants for Us to TRULY BELIEVE IN in order to try to pull the wool over our eyes! Close, but no cigar! It's called Be With Him Until You Get Caught, Then Attempt to Disown Him and Hope the Voters Are Naïve Enough to Believe It. No doubt about that. He was CAUGHT -- no denying the facts from now on for Obama. Obama Has Got To Go! He is bad for America and the more conversation we have about this, the more people will realize why OBAMA NEEDS TO GO!

Now, there are further controversies surrounding Obama. Just go to:

ABC News: Online news, breaking news, feature stories and more (http://abcnews.go.com/)

We don't need a man like this in the White House. Think of our children should he be sitting in the White House one day, say about eight years from now *if* people let him. Children tend to emulate the President. Just for a moment imagine them going to school the very next day and not holding their hand to their heart during the Pledge of Allegiance because they see Obama refuses to do it or read that he refused while running for office. And for a man running for President to say he cannot dismiss Wright as a friend seeing that he has said such bad and condemning things against America, our country? A proud, patriotic American who Loves and Believes in his country would have run like heck the moment that preacher started preaching hate against this country and never turned back! No doubt about it. But that can only speak VOLUMES for this man and Obama who follows him like a lost little puppy.

Do you have something else besides what's been run over and over? If you do bring it for all to see.

Do you have something else besides whats been run over and over? If you do bring it for all to see.

Assuming you are addressing me, this Controversy is far from over. Actually, it's just beginning but with more steam! One place to go to read about it right now, besides so many others, is at:

ABC News: Online news, breaking news, feature stories and more (http://abcnews.go.com/)

So, as long as this controversy continues, I will keep on addressing it as more and more *New Visitors* to this site need to be informed about this important matter even if you personally are not interested in hearing any more dirt surface about your candidate.

You're boring us skygem!

Just to be clear, whoever is president, will give me nothing, and my life has never been based on who the prez is. If you have read any of my posts you'd know that I like all the candidates, for one reason, or another and having seen a few campaigns, this is the cleanest, but we will all see how they do under adversity, so worry about bringing the word to those who can't get it, as I am already far ahead, and realise how closed minded your post are, so fair warning, bring facts and we can debate. But don't assume I'm impressed okay. So in that spirit, I get Obama is not your man, so who is so we can balance this mudslinging and be fair.

I am keeping up. This matter will simply NOT go away, it can't. It's simply too important for the American people to know and understand about Obama.

Have you ever attended a black church and listened to a sermon? In fact, have you attended more than once and listened to more than one black minister? No? Do you know anything about black churches and what goes on there on Sunday morning and during the week? No? Perhaps you'd better find out before you sling mud.

Have you ever attended a black church and listened to a sermon? In fact, have you attended more than once and listened to more than one black minister? No? Do you know anything about black churches and what goes on there on Sunday morning and during the week? No? Perhaps you'd better find out before you sling mud.

That is an irrelevant point. Provide the video of the whole speech and I'll be glad to see if Rev Wright's comments are taken in content or not. The same people who claim that his comments are taken out of content are the same ones who ad nausium repeat over and over that McCain plans to stay in Iraq 100 years ;comments of his that are demonstably taken out of content.

I am always suspicious of little snipets of video, as they can be made to show anything, and since there is only one, where is the pattern that spans 20 years? Who sent it to the media, and why didn't the major news networks carry his entire response? There are many unanswered questions to be answered in my view, not just whether this reverend is a hate monger or not. American politics, you got to love it.

I am always suspicious of little snipets of video, as they can be made to show anything, and since there is only one, where is the pattern that spans 20 years? Who sent it to the media, and why didn't the major news networks carry his entire response? There are many unanswered questions to be answered in my view, not just whether this reverend is a hate monger or not. American politics, you got to love it.

There are more than one ;but I agree it does not show the entire sermon .As I mentioned ;I am more than willing to view them in their entirety

I do not think it relevant who released them except to say that the content of them were widely known ;that the Chicago Press and the national press suppressed the information as long as they could and that it indeed affected the outcome of the primary race to this point by not being forthright.

Yes I have MANY unanswered questions about Obama . It doesn't help that we are told to ignore the man behind the curtain.

As for American politics ? Thus it ever was . Partisan Presidential politics became our reality in 1796 and has not changed much since .

There is a rebroadcast of something by Wright this evening at 6:00 PM CST via the church's website (http://www.tucc.org/home.htm). I plan on giving it a look. The story is the videos were purchased by Fox News directly from the church's online bookstore (http://www.tucc.org/home.htm). There you have it, one more reason to bash FNC.

Steve did you hear the rants of Hillary supporter The Rev James Manning ? He trashes Obama in the most vile manner .I wonder if they can be excused due to the unique historical character of the black Church also ?

Basically he calls Obama a pimp . Gee... now that I think about it ;I wonder if the Clinton's will have rightgous anger over Obama being called a pimp ?

Yay for Bobby!! The OT book of Amos leads the way for white evangelical Christians.

Steve did you hear the rants of Hillary supporter The Rev James Manning ? He trashes Obama in the most vile manner .I wonder if they can be excused due to the unique historical character of the black Church also ?

Basically he calls Obama a pimp . Gee..... now that I think about it ;I wonder if the Clinton's will have rightgous anger over Obama being called a pimp ?

Yeah, I heard that yesterday. I also heard something from an Illinois state senator this morning. I say if one should be excused "due to the unique historical character of the black Church" they all should. Or, in what could be a good thing that comes out of this, people say enough regardless of who this nonsense comes from.

What I got from Obama was his defense by making excuses for “Black Liberation Theology;” that there is a conspiracy of racism in America today and that legalized discrimination still exists today.

What I got from Obama was his defense by making excuses for “Black Liberation Theology;” that there is a conspiracy of racism in America today and that legalized discrimination still exists today.

And the only cure is liberal paternalism.

Did you catch Obama's interview with Anderson Cooper (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0803/19/acd.02.html) yesterday?


COOPER: Played endlessly for much of the past week, today, Senator Obama continued to distance himself from his former pastor's angry rhetoric, and tried to gauge how his speech yesterday on race was playing on the campaign trail.

(on camera): How badly do you think this has damaged you? How much has it hurt? National Review Online says, bottom line, will the speech help you win white working-class voters?

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, you know, one of the things I said early on in this campaign was, if I was just running the textbook campaign, doing the conventional thing, I probably wasn't going to win, because Senator Clinton was going to be much more capable of doing that than I would be.

We had tremendous success, and I think we were starting to get a little comfortable and conventional right before Texas and Ohio. And, you know, in some ways, this controversy has actually shaken me up a little bit and gotten me back into remembering that, you know, the odds of me getting elected have always been lower than some of the other conventional candidates.

I have my own ideas on this but what is everyone else's take?

Sounds like racial-identity politics to me. Strange coming from a person who claims to have transcended that sort of thing.

Sounds like racial-identity politics to me. Strange coming from a person who claims to have transcended that sort of thing.

Even stranger coming from Caucasian Republicans that have never stepped foot into a African-American church before.

Wondergirl says (to SkyGem):
Quote:
Have you ever attended a black church and listened to a sermon? In fact, have you attended more than once and listened to more than one black minister? No? Do you know anything about black churches and what goes on there on Sunday morning and during the week? No? Perhaps you'd better find out before you sling mud.


That is an irrelevent point. Provide the video of the whole speech and I'll be glad to see if Rev Wright's comments are taken in content or not. The same people who claim that his comments are taken out of content are the same ones who ad nausium repeat over and over that McCain plans to stay in Iraq 100 years ;comments of his that are demonstably taken out of content.

Besides that, what Patriotic American wants to go to a church, no matter what it predominant race, and listen to sermons that damn America, our beloved country! Speeches that border on sedition are not my cup of tea, folks. Too bad it appears to be the name brand of Wondergirl since she seems to know so much about and is defending such places and that should tell the story about who we are conversing with! Conversation with that one ended immediately!

Besides that, what Patriotic American wants to go to a church, no matter what it predominant race, and listen to sermons that damn America, our beloved country! Speeches that border on sedition are not my cup of tea, folks. Too bad it appears to be the name brand of Wondergirl since she seems to know so much about and is defending such places and that should tell the story about who we are conversing with! Conversation with that one ended immediately!

Vail Colorado-Todays information & news from Vail Daily - Commentary (http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20080320/EDITS/118528461)

"Matt Zalaznick
Vail, CO Colorado
March 20, 2008


White America and its news anchors are still afraid of black men. Especially angry ones who criticize the homeland.

I see bigotry, racism, xenophobia, antipathy and distrust in the hysterical reactions to the speeches of Barack Obama’s fiery pastor, Jeremiah Wright, and the guilt-by-association some hope will torpedo the Democratic frontrunner’s presidential aspirations.

Perhaps I’m paranoid, but I detect a slight trace of glee in the full-frontal assault on Obama’s connection to Wright by the likes of Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly and other less-demented pundits’

They seem to almost be breathing a sigh of relief that, if the inflammatory pastor finally sinks his unflappable follower, the threat of a black president will have passed, and we can all move on to being worried about a female commander in chief.

While Jeremiah Wright strikes fear into the hearts of America (and its 24-hour news channels) when he suggests U.S. policy may have triggered the rage behind Sept. 11, white “men of god” and white politicians can bash gays without making a single headline.

And if they do make headlines, their “holiness” — or their skin color — seems to excuse their hate speech. Sometimes, the media and others turn the harmless white bigot into a victim when he or she is blasted and scorned for intolerance.

Former Pennsylvania senator Rick Santorum used to call gays one of the biggest threats to America. Former presidential candidate and Colorado congressman Tom Tancredo has called other cultures a major threat to America.

But W. has never been vilified quite like Obama has for his ties to these cultural cavemen, or for his ties to leaders to the religious right who spew even worse hate speech — all while visiting Denver prostitutes.

But a black preacher’s sometimes over-the-top anger at a nation that has, during its history, treated his people beyond dreadfully is portrayed as something dangerous, even seditious.

A key part of Obama’s riveting speech on race Tuesday was when he talked about the anger and bitterness still felt by blacks of his pastor’s generation. Wright still distrusts white America, and the progress made on civil rights hasn’t allayed his fears that there could still be backlash against blacks by the ethic majority.

If blacks could be enslaved in the 19th Century and lynched and oppressed well into the 20th, what’s to say it couldn’t happen again? It may seem unlikely, but that must be the fear that drives some of Wright’s anger.

As a Jew, I can’t compare my easy American experience to that of American blacks, but I can understand how an older generations’ memories of a harsh past can breed fears of future persecution.

Many Jews of my grandparents’ and parents generations’ — some of whom may never have experienced direct anti-Semitism unless they tried to join the local country club — have a lingering fear that, if our people could have been slaughtered and discriminated against for hundreds of years, Jews also could once again become the target of a tyrannical government, even here in the Land of the Free.

In fact, many Jews I know said the most uncomfortable they’ve ever been in their lives about their religion has been during George W. Bush’s presidency.

A few white Christian males have even adopted a sort-of “reverse victimhood.” They have dominated the nation for so much of its history that when their primacy begins to teeter a bit, they try to play the role of the persecuted when the true victims of the past — such as Jeremiah Wright and his congregation — express their anger and remind the majority of its crimes.

The most offensive aspect of the recent attacks on Obama and his pastor is the ownership the white majority takes of the United States when they brand people like Jeremiah Wright traitors because they’ve said very unpleasant things about the way we, as a nation, have behaved.

But the great thing about the United States is that — unlike some nations where we are fighting wars (Iraq) or propping up shady regimes (Saudi Arabia) to ensure our oil supply — the country does not belong to any single ethnicity, gender or religion.

To suggest otherwise — and to levy even greater scorn on a member of a minority for criticizing Uncle Sam — is to show a true lack of patriotism."

Besides that, what Patriotic American wants to go to a church, no matter what it predominant race, and listen to sermons that damn America, our beloved country! Speeches that border on sedition are not my cup of tea, folks. Too bad it appears to be the name brand of Wondergirl since she seems to know so much about and is defending such places and that should tell the story about who we are conversing with! Conversation with that one ended immediately!

Rev. Wright, is an ex Marine, and has EARNED the right to say whatever he pleases, about anything he wants. If you would Google a little, you would find that what he says is the TRUTH! That's what boggles my mind, the media hasn't even investigated what he said. You have a computer, look it up. Start with how the CIA funded the rebels in Nicaragua. And go for it.

And just for giggles, look up the history of the Persian Gulf, start at 1920 when they found oil in Iraq. See who came a calling, and how they established the cultivating of the oil fields. I'm sure some smart reporter will start to add things up.

Those that ignore the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat it. Get to googling!

Besides that, what Patriotic American wants to go to a church, no matter what it predominant race, and listen to sermons that damn America, our beloved country! Speeches that border on sedition are not my cup of tea, folks. Too bad it appears to be the name brand of Wondergirl since she seems to know so much about and is defending such places and that should tell the story about who we are conversing with! Conversation with that one ended immediately!

When fundamentalist Christians have been seated at restaurant tables near the washrooms and kitchen, have had to drink out of defective or inoperable water fountains that are separate from those that everyone else drinks from, are made to use separate public toilets that haven't been cleaned for months and have broken fixtures, have been told their children must transfer to an inadequate school across town when a good one is only a few blocks from home, must be buried in their own cemeteries, cannot initiate a conversation and are not allowed to make eye contact with anyone who isn't a fundamentalist Christian, and have sat at the back of the bus only because that's the ujspoken rule, then let's discuss this rationally. (SkyGem is showing prejudice by not being willing even to discuss.)

Iran Contra Affair

Main article: CIA and Contras cocaine trafficking in the US (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_and_Contras_cocaine_trafficking_in_the_US)
Released on April 13, 1989, the Kerry Committee report (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerry_Committee_report) concluded that members of the U.S. State Department "who provided support for the Contras were involved in drug trafficking...and elements of the Contras themselves knowingly received financial and material assistance from drug traffickers."
In 1996 Gary Webb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Webb) wrote a series of articles published in the San Jose Mercury News (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Jose_Mercury_News), which investigated Nicaraguans linked to the CIA-backed Contras who had allegedly smuggled cocaine into the U.S. which was then distributed as crack cocaine into Los Angeles and funneled profits to the Contras. According to Webb, the CIA was aware of the cocaine transactions and the large shipments of drugs into the U.S. by the Contra personnel and directly aided drug dealers to raise money for the Contras.
In 1996 CIA Director John Deutsch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Deutsch) went to Los Angeles to refute the allegations raised by the Gary Webb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Webb), and was famously confronted by former LAPD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAPD) officer Michael Rupert (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Rupert), who said he had witnessed it occurring. [6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_drug_trafficking#_note-5)

I saw this confrontation on HBO.

Wondergirl the truth is that Rev Wright's version of liberation theology is separatist and an endorsement of segregation. They have rejected the message of MLK Jr.

Even stranger coming from Caucasian Republicans that have never stepped foot into a African-American church before.

Since I raised the question I feel the need to remind you that I have on several occasions set foot in black churches... I've already said that.

Obama has clarified that his Grandmother isn't racist, "she is a typical white person (http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MDg1MTk0YjQ2YjI1ZDBhNDYzMTA4Y2NhMDA4ZWRlOWU=)."


610 WIP host Angelo Cataldi asked Obama about his Tuesday morning speech on race at the National Constitution Center in which he referenced his own white grandmother and her prejudice. Obama told Cataldi that "The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity, but that she is a typical white person. If she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know (pause) there's a reaction in her that doesn't go away and it comes out in the wrong way."

I feel better now, don't you? Oh, and could you expand on what a "typical white person" is Mr. Obama?

Obama has clarified that his Grandmother isn't racist, "she is a typical white person (http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MDg1MTk0YjQ2YjI1ZDBhNDYzMTA4Y2NhMDA4ZWRlOWU=)."



I feel better now, don't you? Oh, and could you expand on what a "typical white person" is Mr. Obama?


Ya think? Well... I'll give the same lecture I just provided Tom. I'm not going to be voting based on McCain's feeling for his great uncle, his cousin, or his mother. Obama loves all his family black and white, as I'm sure John McCain does. I know you heard some old white Republican news commentator on TV suggest that Obama threw his grandmother under the bus. Well Steve their paid to say nonsense to stir the masses and have no substance at a time when GW Bush has screwed the majority of us into economic oblivion.

Hello:

I ain't no Christian, so what do I know about it? However, Jesus was rabblerousing Jew, and I know something about that.

He wasn't politically correct. He upset the status quo. He disrupted the comfortable. He got angry. He threw the moneychangers out of the temple. You seemed to like it when Jesus did it. Is that cause he was white? Or because YOU were the one being oppressed?? Frankly, Jesus raised holy hell. Why can't Wright?

excon

Wondergirl the truth is that Rev Wright's version of liberation theology is separatist and an endorsement of segregation. They have rejected the message of MLK Jr.
You can infer that from a 10 minute sound bite? Your good.

Ya think?! Well...I'll give the same lecture I just provided Tom. I'm not going to be voting based on McCain's feeling for his great uncle, his cousin, or his mother. Obama loves all his family black and white, as I'm sure John McCain does. I know you heard some old white Republican news commentator on TV suggest that Obama threw his grandmother under the bus. Well Steve their paid to say nonsense to stir the masses and have no substance at a time when GW Bush has screwed the majority of us into economic oblivion.

Thanks Bobby, but I don't need a lecture. You can vote for whoever you want for whatever reason, and I don't recall having doubted how much Obama loves his granny.

I do find it amusing how sensitive Obama's supporters get over the idea that he might be imperfect, that his Messianic credentials are fading. It's funny to see how quickly they change the subject when one of his flaws is revealed and after we've been treated to 8 years of Bush bashing, it's even funnier when they divert the attention to Bush.

Picture McCain saying something about a "typical black man." How long do you think before Jesse, Al, the NAACP and every MSM outlet in the country had a major hissy fit? Besides the latest Obama episodes revealing legitimate reasons to question his judgment, it highlights this racial double standard that myself and plenty of others are fed up with... and I don't need any "old white Republican news commentator" to explain it to me. Like it or not this past week has raised serious concerns about Obama, and until he can quit stumbling his way through it it's not going to get any easier for him or his supporters.

I want to know what a "typical white person" is to Mr. Obama. Am I one? Are you one? Tell us Senator, what exactly is a "typical white person?"

Hello:

I ain't no Christian, so what do I know about it? However, Jesus was rabblerousing Jew, and I know something about that.

He wasn't politically correct. He upset the status quo. He disrupted the comfortable. He got angry. He threw the moneychangers out of the temple. You seemed to like it when Jesus did it. Is that cause he was white? Or because YOU were the one being oppressed??? Frankly, Jesus raised holy hell. Why can't Wright?

Yeah, Jesus was raising holy hell about the hypocrites. I can only imagine how He would react to some of Wright's rants. :D

Wondergirl the truth is that Rev Wright's version of liberation theology is seperatist and an endorsement of segregation. They have rejected the message of MLK Jr.

Tom, that's not true at all!! Have you heard or read lots of Wright's sermons? Have you interviewed him? Have you read up on his philosophy?

Excon
Wright can and has spoken…at the same time, I can and have, and you can and have. And with this post [post #68 you reach a couple thousand years in the past.

And with this post [post #68 you reach a couple thousand years in the past.Hello DC:

Yes, I did. Because the times and the people and what they say are SOOOO comparible. You don't think they are. Don't surprise me none.

excon

Tom, that's not true at all!! Have you heard or read lots of Wright's sermons? Have you interviewed him? Have you read up on his philosophy?

I have read the church's web site as well as reasearched the people Rev Wright says influenced him .

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/obama-provided-excellent-free-education-millions-195912-3.html

Picture McCain saying something about a "typical black man." How long do you think before Jesse, Al, the NAACP and every MSM outlet in the country had a major hissy fit?

Hmmmm let's see what Jesse said in a similar vein :

There is nothing more painful to me ... than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved. -- Jesse Jackson

Jesse must be a typical white person.

as a matter of fact I have read the church's web site as well as reasearched the people Rev Wright says influenced him .

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/obama-provided-excellent-free-education-millions-195912-3.html

And you're black, in your 60s, and grew up in the United States?

Hello tom:

The point Wondergirl is making, and I echo it, is that no matter how smart you are (and you're smart), and no matter how much empathy you have for the black community, you can't understand what a black man goes through unless you live in his black skin.

Beyond that, having never experienced what black people go through, I find it quite presumptions of the right wing to expect that black people should think and act like white people - especially the ones who aren't in the ghetto anymore.

excon

Anyone ever listen to Bill Cosby on the subject? Now, he's intelligent.

I reject the argument that it's a black thing so I can't understand. What Rev Wright and the black liberationist are selling is a philosophy diametrically opposed to MLK Jr 's message and it denegrades what he fought for.btw ;I agree with you that the core message in Obama's speech on the subject was the same argument you make... it's a black thing. Wright's racism is understandable and so is Obama's grandmothers . Nonsense !
It doesn't advance anything and it does not unite .

In Obama's 2004 Dem Convention Speech that propelled him to national prominence he said “there is not a black America and a white America... . There's the United States of America.” That is what made him so transitional and gave people so much hope. . The question is ;does he believe it or not? His 20 year attendance at Wright's church and his close association with him gives us ligitimate reasons to question that.

Speaking of Dr. King, a column by Bob Ray Sanders (http://www.star-telegram.com/news/columnists/bob_ray_sanders//story/536162.html) of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram appeared in our paper yesterday in which he defends Wright and invokes Dr. King thusly:


It was that theology, while still teaching non-violence, that taught us to be defiant and demanding.

I find it interesting today that many whites who couldn't stand Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. when he was alive embrace him primarily because of that passage in the I Have a Dream speech in which he longed for the day when his children "will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." That line is most quoted today by those opposed to affirmative action.

But people forget how defiant that speech was, and how it spoke (with all of King's eloquence) to an America that had failed many people, especially this country's people of color.

King had noted that the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence were a promissory note to all people. But he quickly added:

"It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check, a check which has come back marked 'insufficient funds.' But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt."

Sanders failed to note this from the I have a Dream speech just two paragraphs later:


"Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline."

Somewhere down the line Wright missed the "high plane of dignity and discipline" part and held on to the "bitterness and hatred" part of the road "to the solid rock of brotherhood" that Dr. King envisioned.

Hello again,

See, here's the part you white folks miss. You didn't treat the slaves with dignity... You didn't take a high plane when it came to the civil rights movement... Yet, you expect it...

Yes. Bitterness and hatred ARE a part of it. Some of those people, like the Rev. Wright, had hoses put upon them by white folks who were definitely NOT taking a high plane. I'm sorry you don't like the fact that people like Wright remember it.

Your righteousness would be easier to take if we really HAD advanced to a color blind society... But, we haven't. Not even close.

excon

Again you missed the point .it is not what Rev Wright thinks but if Obama believes it. He has no basis for such bitterness so I think him being there is political opportunism because he has zero basis for believing the extreme rants of Rev Wright .

Hello again, tom:

I'm not sure who is missing the point. Obama said he didn't believe it. Why didn't he reject it 20 years ago?

My father in law is a bald headed right winged German bigoted old man. Should I have rejected him because I might run for president in 20 years??

I don't know. You don't have anybody around you that doesn't mirror your beliefs?? It must be pretty boring at your family gatherings.

How unreal do you expect him to be?

excon

He is family ? Nah he is a preacher in a community that Obama chose as his base of political support . That is what this is really about. Obama doesn't believe any of it.

Ex,

You seem to be under the impression that we don't get it, and I assure you I do even if I can't relate to "the black experience." I get that there are still racial obstacles to overcome. From my view however, which is I'm sure the same of millions of Americans, I didn't have anything to do with oppressing blacks, I've never been racist and just plain don't care what color your skin is so I don't get how all this bitterness and asserting your "blackness" helps heal anything.

Sure, be proud of your heritage, don't give up the unique aspects of your culture but stop throwing it in my face, telling me how evil white people are and trying to make us feel guilty. If you wanted to be treated equally and realize this "solid rock of brotherhood" then act like it, stop making excuses and stop injecting racism unnecessarily - especially your Christianity. I mean seriously, how's it working out? Driving a wedge between us and holding a grudge doesn't seem like quite the way to go if you're serious about this.

Steve

Hello again, Steve:

I think you do get it - kind of... But, not really.

You see, I'm an angry guy too. I rail about "you people". I tell you how wrong and mean spirited what you're doing is. I tell you how you're oppressing my people. I try to make you feel guilty. I make no excuses for my position. In fact I'm proud of them. I think they're very American and patriotic, and I think yours are not.

Why don't you put ME down like you do Rev. Wright? He and I are the same, if you inserted potheads instead of black people.

I have no problem driving a wedge between you and me and I hold a grudge. Oh, you wouldn't like what I say when I speak publicly about it.

But, you and I can talk about it. Is that cause it's not about race? I think so.

excon

He is family ? Nah he is a preacher in a community that Obama chose as his base of political support . That is what this is really about. Obama doesn't believe any of it.

From the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/09/us/politics/09obama.html?pagewanted=all) last September:


Mr. Obama’s Ivy League education and his white liberal-establishment connections also became an issue. Mr. Rush told The Chicago Reader, “He went to Harvard and became an educated fool. We’re not impressed with these folks with these Eastern elite degrees.”

Mr. Rush and his supporters faulted him for having missed experiences that more directly defined the previous generation of black people. “Barack is a person who read about the civil-rights protests and thinks he knows all about it,” Mr. Rush told The Reader.

Mr. Obama was seen as an intellectual, “not from us, not from the ’hood,” said Jerry Morrison, a consultant on the Rush campaign. Asked recently about that line of attack, Mr. Rush minimized it as “chest beating, signifying.”

The implication was not exactly that Mr. Obama was “not black enough,” as some blacks have suggested more recently; his credentials were suspect. “It was much more a function of class, not race,” Mr. Adelstein said. “Nobody said he’s ‘not black enough.’ They said he’s a professor, a Harvard elite who lives in Hyde Park.”

It wasn't just about the need for "authenticity" as some have suggested, Obama needed a way to bridge the class disconnect. By joining up with Wright he gets the best of both worlds, authenticity while feeling at home away from the elite academics he studied under.

Hello again, Steve:

I think you do get it - kinda...... But, not really.

You see, I'm an angry guy too. I rail about "you people". I tell you how wrong and mean spirited what you're doing is. I tell you how you're oppressing my people. I try to make you feel guilty. I make no excuses for my position. In fact I'm proud of them. I think they're very American and patriotic, and I think yours are not.

Why don't you put ME down like you do Rev. Wright? He and I are the same, if you inserted potheads instead of black people.

I have no problem driving a wedge between you and me and I hold a grudge. Oh, you wouldn't like what I say when I speak publicly about it.

But, you and I can talk about it. Is that cause it's not about race? I think so.

Don't forget ex, I come from among you, I am more than familiar with the "pothead experience." :)

The difference is partially "cause it's not about race" because racism is not honestly discussed. This episode right here is a perfect example - I am not supposed to be offended by Wright's racist remarks because I haven't lived "the black experience" - you've basically told us so yourself. Because I haven't lived "the black experience" and because there are still obstacles to overcome I, as a white man, have no right to hold Wright accountable.

The rules are different for discussing race than they are for discussing pot. You're not being in denial about your prejudices allows for a more open and honest discussion, and I don't have to concern myself with the backlash of saying something that's against the rules... whatever they are.

Steve

again you missed the point .it is not what Rev Wright thinks but if Obama believes it. He has no basis for such bitterness so I think him being there is political opportunism because he has zero basis for believing the extreme rants of Rev Wright .
You have obviously failed to do your Google homework, and seen what the Reverend was railing about, and the many programs he has run from his church that in fact help, and impower the MANY, that participate in them.


He has no basis for such bitterness so I think him being there is political opportunism because he has zero basis for believing the extreme rants of Rev Wright

Actually that's what he said about the comments made, that were broadcast by the media. That's what he has said all along, and to denounce someone when you know that's not all they have said over 30 years, is asking way too much of any person. I like the character and integrity Mr. Obama has shown by not cowtowing to right wing pressure, at the expense of votes. Back to your Google home work, except for the Aids comment, the rest has already been proven true and is a matter of public record.

the rest are opinions . Tell the Marines who died in Okinawa that we did not need to nuke Japan . Tell the porters and the waiters in the WTC cafeteria that the attack was "chickens coming home to roost" (a line Rev Wright borrowed from Malcolm X .) If Obama believes that stuff then he does not deserve the Presidency .

From my view however, which is I'm sure the same of millions of Americans, I didn't have anything to do with oppressing blacks, I've never been racist and just plain don't care what color your skin is so I don't get how all this bitterness and asserting your "blackness" helps heal anything.

Maybe you don't see it, but just as you, and millions of white people, have no hatred, and don't teach it to your children, there are still millions who do, and they have the will, and power to reek havoc, and do.

Sure, be proud of your heritage, don't give up the unique aspects of your culture but stop throwing it in my face, telling me how evil white people are and trying to make us feel guilty.
I don't think they mean you personally, but all black people must be cautious, as there are those who would band together, exploit, and or, do harm, if they could, so that is the message the Rev Wright is sending to his congregation, as no matter how far you come, you can still be lynched, or tied to a truck, and dragged down a road, just because of skin color. Yes even in 2008, the struggle must continue until there is no need, and obviously there is one. Maybe not in your neighborhood, but in others. If the shoe don't fit, don't put it on.

Tell the porters and the waiters in the WTC cafeteria that the attack was "chickens coming home to roost"
Again you failed to Google, and read what has really been going on in the middle east since 1920.

Maybe you don't see it, but just as you, and millions of white people, have no hatred, and don't teach it to your children, there are still millions who do, and they have the will, and power to reek havoc, and do.

Yeah, so why punish the rest of us?


I don't think they mean you personally, but all black people must be cautious, as there are those who would band together, exploit, and or, do harm, if they could, so that is the message the Rev Wright is sending to his congregation, as no matter how far you come, you can still be lynched, or tied to a truck, and dragged down a road, just because of skin color. Yes even in 2008, the struggle must continue until there is no need, and obviously there is one. Maybe not in your neighborhood, but in others. If the shoe don't fit, don't put it on.

"All black people must be cautious?" Seriously? Why? I can't recall the last racial struggle in my city of 200,000 people other than Hispanics wanting to force our city to change our voting system even though they've been well represented in our city and county. I can't recall the last lynching in our city - actually I can't recall ANY blacks or anyone else being lynched or tied to a truck and dragged down a road in our city. The closest I can come up with was a "punk" being ran over by a "prep/jock" in 1997, neither were black. Maybe Wright and the folks at Trinity UCC need to come down here and learn how to get along.

"All black people must be cautious?" Seriously? Why?

You don't lock your car doors when driving through an nearly-all-black neighborhood? Your women don't hold their purses a little tighter when passing a young black guy on the sidewalk? At family dinners when racist comments are made by relatives, you are quick to chide them and defend blacks?

You live in a great town. Good for you. There are many more places, that are bigger, badder, and meaner, trust me.

You don't lock your car doors when driving through an nearly-all-black neighborhood?

My wife's car automatically locks the doors when put in gear. I don't lock my old pickup doors anywhere I drive in Amarillo, TX and never have. I live in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood and don't lock my doors, why should I do it anywhere else? The only places I ever really felt nervous was after taking wrong turns in D.C. and Omaha, and in downtown Dallas when some presumed Muslim guy wearing a veil kept walking back and forth in front of us at a stoplight while staring us down. It's the threatening looks and gestures, not the skin color, that causes concern.


Your women don't hold their purses a little tighter when passing a young black guy on the sidewalk?

Or in the mall where everyone hangs out, or the football stadium, or a hockey game, a baseball game? You're more in danger here of getting your car broken into while you're in church on the 'rich' side of town than a young black man snatching your purse. Our community is made up of a wonderful mix of whites, blacks, Hispanics, Vietnamese, Indians, Pakistanis, Laotians and others and from what I can tell we seem to get along rather well for the most part. But for what it's worth, I tell my wife to be aware of her surroundings EVERYWHERE she goes.


At family dinners when racist comments are made by relatives, you are quick to chide them and defend blacks?

You are assuming racist comments are made at family dinners. Both mine and my brother's best friends growing up were Hispanic and we were all welcome in each other's homes. Presently, I am aware of only one white neighbor within two blocks of the house I grew up in and in which I have resided for the past 24 plus years. Why would we be making racist comments about our friends and neighbors?

You live in a great town. Good for you. There are many more places, that are bigger, badder, and meaner, trust me.

No doubt, but it helps that we don't sit around and let old wounds fester.

You don't lock your car doors when driving through an nearly-all-black neighborhood? Your women don't hold their purses a little tighter when passing a young black guy on the sidewalk? At family dinners when racist comments are made by relatives, you are quick to chide them and defend blacks?

Because, speechless, this (what I said above) is how it goes in a number of places in the U.S. Visit Chicago or Detroit or Washington DC or Buffalo. The Muslim guy in the turban is not what people are afraid of. I'm so glad Amarillo is free of racism.

Because, speechless, this (what I said above) is how it goes in a number of places in the U.S. Visit Chicago or Detroit or Washington DC or Buffalo. The Muslim guy in the turban is not what people are afraid of. I'm so glad Amarillo is free of racism.

Wondergirl, believe it or not I understand there are places like this, I have been to D.C. I have been to LA. I understand there are still racial obstacles to overcome - I think this is the third or fourth time I've said that today - but why? Honestly, why is that way in many areas still? Is it because of government conspiracies against the black man? Is it because we white folk are oppressing them, won't give them a fair shake or don't want to see blacks succeed? What?

Steve
P.S. I never said Amarillo was free of racism.

My wife's car automatically locks the doors when put in gear. I don't lock my old pickup doors anywhere I drive in Amarillo, TX and never have. I live in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood and don't lock my doors, why should I do it anywhere else? The only places I ever really felt nervous was after taking wrong turns in D.C. and Omaha, and in downtown Dallas when some presumed Muslim guy wearing a veil kept walking back and forth in front of us at a stoplight while staring us down. It's the threatening looks and gestures, not the skin color, that causes concern.



Or in the mall where everyone hangs out, or the football stadium, or a hockey game, a baseball game? You're more in danger here of getting your car broken into while you're in church on the 'rich' side of town than a young black man snatching your purse. Our community is made up of a wonderful mix of whites, blacks, Hispanics, Vietnamese, Indians, Pakistanis, Laotians and others and from what I can tell we seem to get along rather well for the most part. But for what it's worth, I tell my wife to be aware of her surroundings EVERYWHERE she goes.



You are assuming racist comments are made at family dinners. Both mine and my brother's best friends growing up were Hispanic and we were all welcome in each other's homes. Presently, I am aware of only one white neighbor within two blocks of the house I grew up in and in which I have resided for the past 24 plus years. Why would we be making racist comments about our friends and neighbors?

I think if there were more people like you steve then this conversation wouldn't even be taking place because racism would have been defeated. But as you know that it isn't the case.

I'm catching up on some old threads.



Thanks Bobby, but I don't need a lecture. You can vote for whoever you want for whatever reason, and I don't recall having doubted how much Obama loves his granny.

I'm not chasing waterfalls, but I do think it's your Republican brethren that claims Obama threw his grandmother under the bus. Maybe you disagree with them, but I think on your on board the Elephant express.


I do find it amusing how sensitive Obama's supporters get over the idea that he might be imperfect, that his Messianic credentials are fading.

I'm sensitive about educating the next generation. Concerning Obama I know the pros and cons.



It's funny to see how quickly they change the subject when one of his flaws is revealed and after we've been treated to 8 years of Bush bashing, it's even funnier when they divert the attention to Bush.

Newsflash! Part of the election process after having a president that stank up the White House is figuring what didn't work.


Picture McCain saying something about a "typical black man." How long do you think before Jesse, Al, the NAACP and every MSM outlet in the country had a major hissy fit? Besides the latest Obama episodes revealing legitimate reasons to question his judgment, it highlights this racial double standard that myself and plenty of others are fed up with...and I don't need any "old white Republican news commentator" to explain it to me. Like it or not this past week has raised serious concerns about Obama, and until he can quit stumbling his way through it it's not going to get any easier for him or his supporters.


Jesse Jackson has weathered many racial innuendoes in his life, same for Al Sharpton, and the NCAAP has had numerous cases presented to the organization. You're asking me a "what if" and given the scenario if they knew the context of McCain saying "typical black man" they could understand if it was a derogatory slur or had meaning with factual historical evidence for the times.


I want to know what a "typical white person" is to Mr. Obama. Am I one? Are you one? Tell us Senator, what exactly is a "typical white person?"

Typical meaning having two Caucasian parents and in an era which was presented as normal. Provided Obama gets the Democratic nomination, I can't wait for McCain to present all the arguments that his supporters think are relative to the Presidency.

I think if there were more people like you steve then this conversation wouldnt even be taking place because racism would have been defeated. But as you know that it isnt the case.

Thanks, Skell and I understand that. I just happen to be of the opinion that we need a lot less unnecessary talk about racism for tensions to ease.

I'm not chasing waterfalls, but I do think it's your Republican brethren that claims Obama threw his grandmother under the bus. Maybe you disagree with them, but I think on your on board the Elephant express.

LOL, Bobby, I never got on that particular GOP bus. Give me a little credit where it's due my friend.


Newsflash! Part of the election process after having a president that stank up the White House is figuring what didn't work.

As well as vetting potential replacements.


Jesse Jackson has weathered many racial innuendoes in his life, same for Al Sharpton, and the NCAAP has had numerous cases presented to the organization. You're asking me a "what if" and given the scenario if they knew the context of McCain saying "typical black man" they could understand if it was a derogatory slur or had meaning with factual historical evidence for the times.

I also understand, and "factual historical evidence for the times" shows an extremely high probability that McCain would be battered and bashed to no end by the MSM.


Typical meaning having two Caucasian parents and in an era which was presented as normal. Provided Obama gets the Democratic nomination, I can't wait for McCain to present all the arguments that his supporters think are relative to the Presidency.

Like I said, I also understand. Given the pretext of his message was confronting racism as many news outlets described his speech, and the context of the passage was a nervous white grandmother "who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe," it's safe to say that's how he describes a "typical white person."

" it's safe to say that's how he describes a "typical white person."Hello again, Steve:

Talk about taking things out of context...

Even your righty dude, Chris Wallace yelled at the dufus doosie on Fox for doing that very thing.

excon

it's safe to say that's how he describes a "typical white person."
There is no such thing as a typical white person, but some are better than others. What Obama said was, he understands the frustration that white people can feel, when confronted with racial situations.

Hello again, Steve:

Talk about taking things out of context...

Even your righty dude, Chris Wallace yelled at the dufus doosie on Fox for doing that very thing.

Ex, at least I provided the context to support my view, unlike Bobby's explanation, "having two Caucasian parents and in an era which was presented as normal," or talaniman's, "he understands the frustration that white people can feel, when confronted with racial situations."

What part of viewing blacks with fear and "who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe" is hard to understand?


"The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity, but that she is a typical white person. If she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know (pause) there's a reaction in her that doesn't go away and it comes out in the wrong way."

It wasn't just "somebody on the street" he was referring to in his speech, it was "black men who passed by her." Add this from his speech:


Like the anger within the black community, these resentments (by "working- and middle-class white Americans") aren't always expressed in polite company. But they have helped shape the political landscape for at least a generation.

Combine the speech and his explanation and you get we may not harbor "racial animosity," we just can't help it that we act like racists... just like his mentor.

Combine the speech and his explanation and you get we may not harbor "racial animosity," we just can't help it that we act like racists... just like his mentor.

Now I think your on to something. Older people have different memories, and experiences, and that's what makes them the way they are. You don't have to agree with it, but respectfully accept them for those experiences. Its your world now, so what are you going to do about it, as your experiences will be different, hopefully.

Now I think your on to something. Older people have different memories, and experiences, and thats what makes them the way they are. You don't have to agree with it, but respectfully accept them for those experiences. Its your world now, so what are you going to do about it, as your experiences will be different, hopefully.

I definitely think I'm onto something here, but I think it's a stretch to think "older people" were all he meant by "typical white person" - especially since he was referring to the "resentments" being expressed by "working- and middle-class white Americans" in the passage.

I definitely think I'm onto something here, but I think it's a stretch to think "older people" were all he meant by "typical white person" - especially since he was referring to the "resentments" being expressed by "working- and middle-class white Americans" in the passage.

Work for a company that has a union and discover racial tensions.

Work for a company that has a union and discover racial tensions.

Wondergirl, I'm just curious, how is that relevant to my point?

The Audacity to Hope | PreachingToday.com (http://www.preachingtoday.com/sermons/sermons/audacityofhope.html)

While I ceratainly don't agree with the content of what has been played ad nauseaum in the news in regards to some of Rev J Wright's sermon, I found this.

ex, at least I provided the context to support my view, unlike Bobby's explanation, "having two Caucasian parents and in an era which was presented as normal," or talaniman's, "he understands the frustration that white people can feel, when confronted with racial situations."




Whoa! I gave you complete context. BTW it takes two Caucasians parents to be "white," and that's pretty typical in and of itself of United States history, per challenges in a court of law. Being mixed, as in mulatto, octoroon, or high yellow labeled you automatic black. It was speaking of a era of normalcy. It was "typical" in society at a time (Obama's grandmothers generation) when blacks had seating arrangements on a bus and couldn't drink at the same water fountains as whites. Even many of the nursing homes were segregated, down in Texas, and other parts of the country.

As for Talaniman's reply, that is essentially correct. Like Whoopi Goldberg mentioned yesterday, when a white person walks by six young black males hanging around on street corner, the individual more times than not will have some anxiety.

Whoa! I gave you complete context. BTW it takes two Caucasians parents to be "white," and that's pretty typical in and of itself of United States history, per challenges in a court of law. Being mixed, as in mulatto, octoroon, or high yellow labeled you automatic black. It was speaking of a era of normalcy. It was "typical" in society at a time (Obama's grandmothers generation) when blacks had seating arrangements on a bus and couldn't drink at the same water fountains as whites. Even many of the nursing homes were segregated, down in Texas, and other parts of the country.

I gave my opinion based on the pretext of the speech and the context - with quotes - of what Obama said, and you? Which part of Obama's speech and/or interview support your opinion? Mine is based on what I know Obama said, not pure guesswork.


As for Talaniman's reply, that is essentially correct. Like Whoopi Goldberg mentioned yesterday, when a white person walks by six young black males hanging around on street corner, the individual more times than not will have some anxiety.

Ok, and? I offered analysis with supporting evidence, where's yours? By the way, he did attempt to clarify what he meant.


"What I was trying to express is something I expressed in the speech, which is that we all harbor stereotypes. That doesn’t make us bad people. It’s simply pointing out that – and by the way, the context in which I stated that is the fear of young black men on the streets. That’s not even unique to white people. African-Americans have incorporated those stereotypes.

"Part of what the speech was about was the stereotypes that still linger in the body politic. The anger, the resentments, and the stereotypes that sometimes serve us publicly and sometimes serve us privately. They’re sometimes directed at African-Americans, but African-Americans harbor their own stereotypes, and that’s part of what was the failure of Rev. Wright’s sermons, was assuming a set of attitudes that weren’t necessarily accurate.

I give him credit for admitting inaccurate stereotypes linger among blacks, but he still didn't exactly explain which stereotypes linger in the "typical white person." I'd even cut him some slack if he would have just said, "I'm sorry, that was a poor choice of words." But, he hasn't exactly dug himself out of this hole yet - it was a stupid, stupid thing to say.

but he still didn't exactly explain which stereotypes linger in the "typical white person."
How about when he talked of the attitude toward affirmitive action, and the frustrations, and feelings of unfairness, when blacks are seemingly given positions over white students for college?

I gave my opinion based on the pretext of the speech and the context - with quotes - of what Obama said, and you? Which part of Obama's speech and/or interview support your opinion? Mine is based on what I know Obama said, not pure guesswork.

So that's your argument here? "Mine is based on what I know Obama said, not pure guesswork."

Got it! Glad you cleared that up. Wow!


What subject did you think we we're discussing? I'll debate Republicans until they pass on to meet the deceased Ronald Reagan, but you quoting my side of dialogue and not digesting it leads me to think your not reading it or have a distinct bias.


READ, DIGEST and LEARN about our United States history: BTW it takes two Caucasians parents to be "white," and that's pretty typical in and of itself of United States history, per challenges in a court of law. Being mixed, as in mulatto, octoroon, or high yellow labeled you automatic black. It was speaking of a era of normalcy. It was "typical" in society at a time (Obama's grandmothers generation) when blacks had seating arrangements on a bus and couldn't drink at the same water fountains as whites. Even many of the nursing homes were segregated, down in Texas, and other parts of the country.


Better yet, what part of the speech do you think didn't qualify within historical context?



Ok, and? I offered analysis with supporting evidence, where's yours? By the way, he did attempt to clarify what he meant.

Where's mine? Are you kidding me? Look up and see who started this post. Folgers, Maxwell House, Starbucks, Seattle's Best... go for it! Have a cup or two, please!




I give him credit for admitting inaccurate stereotypes linger among blacks, but he still didn't exactly explain which stereotypes linger in the "typical white person." I'd even cut him some slack if he would have just said, "I'm sorry, that was a poor choice of words." But, he hasn't exactly dug himself out of this hole yet - it was a stupid, stupid thing to say.


That was a backhanded way of giving someone credit, "it was a stupid, stupid thing to say." Stupid? Obama, a very educated person that understands the history in the era which Wright and his grandmother, both grew up in. I really hope John McCain loads up on your arguments at the general election debates. Wow! Wow! Wow!

How about when he talked of the attitude toward affirmitive action, and the frustrations, and feelings of unfairness, when blacks are seemingly given positions over white students for college?

Or "and by the way, the context in which I stated that is the fear of young black men on the streets." Either way he was stereotyping white people with a stupid, stupid remark and he needs to just acknowledge that instead of trying to explain it any more.

Or "and by the way, the context in which I stated that is the fear of young black men on the streets." Either way he was stereotyping white people with a stupid, stupid remark and he needs to just acknowledge that instead of trying to explain it any more.


Got it! The Republican playbook calls factual history, "stereotyping." Wow!

You need more time in the big city Speech, your small rural upbringing is showing. There is a town in rural Illinois that was focused on by 60 Minutes a number of years ago, that would blow your mind. The rumor of a black family, moving into a white neighborhood, had all the homeowners scurrying to sell before the couple moved in. Even though they were a doctor and lawyer couple, that fear had the residents losing the equity of there homes, out of fear. These were actual facts. Take a broader view before you commit your facts to public scrutiny.

Got it! The Republican playbook calls factual history, "stereotyping." Wow!

Bobby, beats the double standard in the left's playbook :D

You need more time in the big city Speech, your small rural upbringing is showing.

Oh right, I must be a "typical" dumb "rural" rube. FYI, I have never, ever lived in a rural area.


There is a town in rural Illinois that was focused on by 60 Minutes a number of years ago, that would blow your mind. The rumor of a black family, moving into a white neighborhood, had all the homeowners scurrying to sell before the couple moved in. Even though they were a doctor and lawyer couple, that fear had the residents losing the equity of there homes, out of fear. These were actual facts. Take a broader view before you commit your facts to public scrutiny.

And then there is my city of whites, Hispanics, blacks, Indians, Pakistanis, Vietnamese, Laotians and others in the 2nd largest state by population which also has a non-white majority. Gimme a break.

P.S. We have satellite TV, that internet thingy, Starbucks and have built and maintained nuclear weapons for 57 years (http://www.pantex.com/about/index.htm).

Bobby, beats the double standard in the left's playbook :D

Obama plays by the left playbook when it comes to spending. But the thing is he doesn't hide it and I'd also rather spend more at home, then in Iraq. Hillary's playing by the lefty's playbook when it comes to spending, but also dirty campaigning and now has, "misspoke." The archived media tapes proved today that she was either lying, delusional, or had a memory lapse thinking she was dodging bullets in Bosnia. I wonder how much more disorientated she is at three in the morning? I think it's fairly clear we don't need Hillary answering any White House phones. Oh! And I haven't forgotten about McCain. John McCain will have to use a voice activated speaker phone otherwise the cord will get tangled up in the line going to his oxygen bottle. :)

Obama plays by the left playbook when it comes to spending. But the thing is he doesn't hide it and I'd also rather spend more at home, then in Iraq. Hillary's playing by the lefty's playbook when it comes to spending, but also dirty campaigning and now has, "misspoke." The archived media tapes proved today that she was either lying, delusional, or had a memory lapse thinking she was dodging bullets in Bosnia. I wonder how much more disorientated she is at three in the morning?! I think it's fairly clear we don't need Hillary answering any White House phones. Oh! And I haven't forgotten about McCain. John McCain will have to use a voice activated speaker phone otherwise the cord will get tangled up in the line going to his oxygen bottle. :)

LOL, my point is simple and I know you're smart guy and get it. The people that are defending Obama for being mentored for 20 years by Wright and calling his granny a "typical white person" go berserk when the roles are reversed. I know it and you know it, too. We can deal with Hillary and McCain on another post.

LOL, my point is simple and I know you're smart guy and get it. The people that are defending Obama for being mentored for 20 years by Wright and calling his granny a "typical white person" go berserk when the roles are reversed. I know it and you know it, too. We can deal with Hillary and McCain on another post.

The same can be said for all people here when defending there man. As I claimed on my other post you guys have been disgusted by the treatment Bush has received by sections of the media yet when it is aimed at Hillary or Obama you gleefully circulate such stories. There is no difference s o don't claim to be any different. Its human nature to defend what we believe in whether it be right or wrong. Look at the way you are defending Cheny. Your going "beserk" that his comments were taken out of context.

The same can be said for all people here when defending there man. As ic alimed on my other post you guys have been disgusted by the treatment Bush has recieved by sections of the media yet when it is aimed at Hillary or Obama you gleefully circulate such stories. There is no difference s o dont claim to be any different. Its human nature to defen in what we believe in whether it be right or wrong. Look at the way you are defending Cheny. Your going "beserk" that his comments were taken out of context.


I agree with you Skell. And I know it's frustrating for you to see this nonsense coming out of the United States. To be perfectly honest I'm embarrassed that my home nation is spending time on issues that are basically irrelative to repairing the last seven and a half years under the Bush administration. :o And although the racial issue was not brought up originally by the candidate I'm supporting "Obama," it is one of the few thus far that's worth a look-see because we are a nation made up of so many different people. I do think Obama addressed racial tension speaking in terms of identification markers, from generation to generation, superbly. As for the board, lately I just go with whatever topic the McCain supporters want me to explain them.:rolleyes: Seriously though, I don't agree with Steve (speechlessTx) and Tom (tomder55) on this post and on some other issues, but I know these guys and we all share the same interest in wanting to see our country improve. Even SkyGem, that would bore an owl into comatose by talking in circles from the pulpit of Hannity, Limbaugh, and Coulter, I can respect. Because although I disagree with SkyGem, I can tell that person really cares. :cool:

I think once the smoke clears from the Democratic primaries and we get the nomination declared, the country will start focusing in on issues that effect our wallets, and our children's future. If not then for sure after the first nationally televised general election debate. At least that's my hope, either that or I can move to Israel by birthright, or Southeast Asia, where I have a second home. And just north of the US is Canada where their dollar is stronger than ours. And for sure the Euro is kicking our tuchus. Did I mention that I like Mexican food? Mexico's starting to look like a great place to retire. At the rate our US economy is going, amnesty for illegals will be an issue of contention, not for the US government, but for the Mexican government, as gringo's start heading south. :)

I agree Bobby. Its not so much frustrating but disappointing and somewhat hypocritical. The greatest nation on earth. The land of the free and brave. A nation that supposedly gives hope to the rest of the world carrying on in such ways is laughable. Surely your better than this. But maybe not.

I think Obama addressed racial tensions superbly too. I thought his speech was wonderful. But many others didn't. That's fair enough too. We aren't meant to see eye to eye.

And there is no doubt that you all care. Who wouldn't. It is an important decision and you people are very patriotic. It deserves heartfelt debate and I enjoy reading and giving my two bobs worth.

If it doesn't work out the way you want then ill meet you in Thailand for a drink. My shout. Our dollar nearly matches yours these days so I can afford it.

The same can be said for all people here when defending there man. As i claimed on my other post you guys have been disgusted by the treatment Bush has recieved by sections of the media yet when it is aimed at Hillary or Obama you gleefully circulate such stories. There is no difference s o dont claim to be any different. Its human nature to defend what we believe in whether it be right or wrong. Look at the way you are defending Cheny. Your going "beserk" that his comments were taken out of context.

Actually Skell I think I've been pretty consistent. My defense of Cheney being "dismissive" is based on the context of his statement and his history of publicly honoring the sacrifice of the troops and their families - as opposed to the snippet of an article NK posted. I also said I disagree that Bush bears the greater burden. Who then, is fair?

I asked a valid question about Obama, what does he mean by a "typical white person?" I'm a white person and deserve an answer. My opinion is entirely supported by the pretext and context of his speech and related interviews, and the double standard I speak of was evidenced by numerous recent events - Imus, Biden, Ferraro. The media went nuts, heads rolled, Sharpton mobilized. Obama makes a stupid, stereotypical remark about whites and the same people stand in his defense. On the other hand, I've repeatedly defended Obama here against charges of being unpatriotic and secretly a Muslim and was the first to acknowledge his attempt to clarify the remark. Who then, is fair?

Skell, we get a little passionate but I know politics isn't just a full contact sport in this country :D

Bobby and I may kick each other around a little but the guy is a loyal Dallas Cowboys fan so he's all right. That's more than I can say for tom who for some reason follows the NY Giants. And by the way, I love Mexican food, too. Maybe we can organize a nice fiesta and work it all out :)

Stop dissing the Gnats ! They are the champs! This garlic nosed Italian-American isn't going to take it anymore !

stop dissing the Gnats ! They are the champs! This garlic nosed Italian-American aint gonna take it anymore !

Took you long enough :). Yeah, they're the champs and I salute them, they earned it and this Cowboy fan was proud of them. You may never hear me say that again though... unless it helps my fantasy team :D