nimblethink
Mar 14, 2008, 12:10 AM
My wife and I recently purchased a 1950's home. The electrical meter is on the western front of the home (40' x 30') with a panel below it, another panel inside the house, behind the meter inside a closet, and a third panel inside a half-bathroom inside the attached garage (34' x 30') -- it's a StabLok panel which the building inspector said was a hazard.
I have done wiring previously; residential, barns, and stables; years ago, however I have an illustrated copy of the 2002 NEC and a handbook of the 2008 NEC, both of which I've gone over. I know that there are many code violations in the house and garage, hence I am going to replace much of the electrical installation.
The house portion will be "renovated" in a few years (i.e. demolished in plain speak, but "renovated" according to the local CA building permit codes) and a second (possibly third story) added. The garage portion (34'x30') will remain, however we will sheetrock the exposed studs and ceiling to protect the apartment above the garage (fire wall).
There will be a triangular-in-cross-section attic crawlspace (4' high, 10' wide) above the garage (next to the apartment under the sloping roof) which has enough room to run plumbing and electrical now; and add electrical cables in the future without having to remove sheetrock (we'll put an access panel in the garage ceiling when we sheetrock the ceiling).
I plan to install a new meter box with 200A disconnect on the south outside wall of the garage 53 feet from the existing meter, then the utility company will move the meter -- the existing meter location will be demolished in a few years. I plan to install a disconnect outside next to the meter box for a possible future photovoltaic installation (I'll do it now so PG&E won't have to return if we install PV at a future date; I'll also install conduit from the switch to the garage and to the roof to pull wires to the solar panels if/when required).
I may decide in the future to also install an automation system during the house renovation (Vantage by Legrand, C-plus by Square-D, etc.) where the light switches are CAT-5 wired and the luminaires (and other items such as A/C, heating, security) are automated by a central controller.
I note that the house has a kitchen and the garage apartment also has a kitchenette, so there are few extra circuits for a 5000 sq ft structure (estimated total structure area after renovation).
I will remove all three existing panels (especially the StabLok) right now, however I see that I am faced with three choices:
(1) place a 200A load center inside the garage behind the meter (with a disconnect so that I don't have to run outside {in the rain} when working on the panel)
Pros: a single panel will be convenient.
Cons: the branch circuit runs for the house will be longer, there will be a maximum of 42 breaker slots (yes double slots for oven, electric stove, dryer, two hot water heater will take up 10 slots, however 4 will be freed up when the two water heaters are replaced with one gas heater)
(2) place a 200A load center inside the garage on the wall nearest the house-to-be-renovated
Pros: the branch circuit runs for the house will be shorter, the panel will be nearer the boiler, water circulation pumps, etc. on the house side of the garage
Cons: the service disconnect-to-panel feeder will have to be about 40' longer in total, also the 42 breaker limit, panel location will be a bit tricky to work around a stairwell, exit door, existing water heater, existing laundry room, etc.
(3) place a load center inside the garage behind the meter and later place a sub-panel inside the renovated house
Pros: the branch circuit runs for the house will be shorter, there will be more breaker slots available in the garage, especially if I ever want to put in a drill press (I'm assuming that a small lathe or Bridgeport mill will require some funky 3-phase installation)
Cons:? what would be a good location for a sub-panel in the home -- I'm used to "utilities" being in the garage or basement
I know how to wire these three choices in accordance with the NEC, but which one would be best?
With all my prior wiring experience I never had a choice as where to place the panel, so I'm a bit stymied as to optimizing this situation. Cost is a secondary factor to quality -- we plan to retire in this home in a few decades, so I will spend what it takes for quality and convenience for my future maintenance work. I'll use all Square-D because it's what I grew up with.
Thanks for any suggestions!
I have done wiring previously; residential, barns, and stables; years ago, however I have an illustrated copy of the 2002 NEC and a handbook of the 2008 NEC, both of which I've gone over. I know that there are many code violations in the house and garage, hence I am going to replace much of the electrical installation.
The house portion will be "renovated" in a few years (i.e. demolished in plain speak, but "renovated" according to the local CA building permit codes) and a second (possibly third story) added. The garage portion (34'x30') will remain, however we will sheetrock the exposed studs and ceiling to protect the apartment above the garage (fire wall).
There will be a triangular-in-cross-section attic crawlspace (4' high, 10' wide) above the garage (next to the apartment under the sloping roof) which has enough room to run plumbing and electrical now; and add electrical cables in the future without having to remove sheetrock (we'll put an access panel in the garage ceiling when we sheetrock the ceiling).
I plan to install a new meter box with 200A disconnect on the south outside wall of the garage 53 feet from the existing meter, then the utility company will move the meter -- the existing meter location will be demolished in a few years. I plan to install a disconnect outside next to the meter box for a possible future photovoltaic installation (I'll do it now so PG&E won't have to return if we install PV at a future date; I'll also install conduit from the switch to the garage and to the roof to pull wires to the solar panels if/when required).
I may decide in the future to also install an automation system during the house renovation (Vantage by Legrand, C-plus by Square-D, etc.) where the light switches are CAT-5 wired and the luminaires (and other items such as A/C, heating, security) are automated by a central controller.
I note that the house has a kitchen and the garage apartment also has a kitchenette, so there are few extra circuits for a 5000 sq ft structure (estimated total structure area after renovation).
I will remove all three existing panels (especially the StabLok) right now, however I see that I am faced with three choices:
(1) place a 200A load center inside the garage behind the meter (with a disconnect so that I don't have to run outside {in the rain} when working on the panel)
Pros: a single panel will be convenient.
Cons: the branch circuit runs for the house will be longer, there will be a maximum of 42 breaker slots (yes double slots for oven, electric stove, dryer, two hot water heater will take up 10 slots, however 4 will be freed up when the two water heaters are replaced with one gas heater)
(2) place a 200A load center inside the garage on the wall nearest the house-to-be-renovated
Pros: the branch circuit runs for the house will be shorter, the panel will be nearer the boiler, water circulation pumps, etc. on the house side of the garage
Cons: the service disconnect-to-panel feeder will have to be about 40' longer in total, also the 42 breaker limit, panel location will be a bit tricky to work around a stairwell, exit door, existing water heater, existing laundry room, etc.
(3) place a load center inside the garage behind the meter and later place a sub-panel inside the renovated house
Pros: the branch circuit runs for the house will be shorter, there will be more breaker slots available in the garage, especially if I ever want to put in a drill press (I'm assuming that a small lathe or Bridgeport mill will require some funky 3-phase installation)
Cons:? what would be a good location for a sub-panel in the home -- I'm used to "utilities" being in the garage or basement
I know how to wire these three choices in accordance with the NEC, but which one would be best?
With all my prior wiring experience I never had a choice as where to place the panel, so I'm a bit stymied as to optimizing this situation. Cost is a secondary factor to quality -- we plan to retire in this home in a few decades, so I will spend what it takes for quality and convenience for my future maintenance work. I'll use all Square-D because it's what I grew up with.
Thanks for any suggestions!