I used to be christian, until my pastor began telling me how wrong everyone else in the world was. All I could think was, how can you be saying those people are wrong when they rely on faith just as you do? Does a Buddhist not have faith that his religion is true? And if someone who does not believe in jesus lives their life well, why should they be condemned? If a gay man is sweet and kind and thoughful, or just doesn't step on any toes, why should he burn in hell? Or a girl who made a mistake and in result chose to terminate her pregnancy, why must you all look down at her? I guess what I am asking is If your religion preachess love and truth why when good people do things that you disagree wiith, even when they hurt no one, do you feel the need to point and tell them how condemned they are. I thought god said, I give you the choice... why can't you people just let us choose.

This is the reason that I don't participate in organized religion. I think its all a bunch of hypocrisy.

Chrissyg89
Quote:
A non-christian with a ponder. A reason
I used to be christian, until my pastor began telling me how wrong everyone else in the world was. All I could think was, how can you be saying those people are wrong when they rely on faith just as you do? Does a Buddhist not have faith that his religion is true? And if someone who does not believe in jesus lives their life well, why should they be condemned? If a gay man is sweet and kind and thoughful, or just doesn't step on any toes, why should he burn in hell? Or a girl who made a mistake and in result chose to terminate her pregnancy, why must you all look down at her? I guess what I am asking is If your religion preachess love and truth why when good people do things that you disagree wiith, even when they hurt no one, do you feel the need to point and tell them how condemned they are. I thought god said, I give you the choice... why can't you people just let us choose.(End Quote)


I understand what you are saying. I had issues with this years back. I found scriptures that say that God is a loving God but also a just God. He is the one who will judge. We should not, is my understanding.

My understanding of what the scriptures in the Bible teach all the way through is that there is only one sin that is unforgivable unto God and that is the rejection of His Son Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. God provided a way for us to receive salvation and forgiveness and eternal life in Heaven. He says "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and ye shall be saved." in Acts 16:31. It is a simple act of faith. If we listen to our heart, my belief is that we will each know this is true. God knows each day we are not going to live a perfect life. We all sin, those who believe in God and those who do not, all do things that are wrong, hurtful at times, etc. The difference is that if we accept Jesus as Lord, we have an advocate with God our Father and He will forgive and guide us and teach us how to love others and be accepting. We don't have to accept or love all behavior but we do need to love people.

When we hear people who are in positions such as pastors, teachers in the church, etc., speak in a judgmental way of others, it is the biggest turn off to me as a Christian but I try to realize that they also are not perfect just as I am not. I had a preacher tell me if I did not become a member of his church (a certain denomination), I would die and go to hell. I do not and did not believe that to be true. Each church has certain things they put more emphasis on than others. My base line is to always go to God's word (I know people say it is diluted because of being translated so many times but for me, I choose to believe the Bible, not just by reading the word, but by praying and knowing direction in my heart is from God and even then we must be discerning because we can miss the mark but we must in faith strive toward living a life that would be pleasing to God.) Some people believe if they are good enough or do enough good deeds, they will earn Heaven but I have to ask, how many good deeds constitute enough to earn such a privilege? My belief is that one cannot do enough good to earn a place in Heaven. That is a free gift from God, "For by grace are ye saved through faith and not that of yourselves, lest any man should boast." It is a gift freely given and not forced on anyone.

Each of us must find our answers. I found peace through Jesus Christ. Yes, I get upset when a person speaks ugly things about another. Each of has sin in our lives. The only difference that I have come to know as truth in my heart is that, when I asked Jesus to forgive my sins and come into my heart, I became a new creation because of that experience. It didn't stop there....each day, I learn more of His grace and love for people. When I worked outside the home, each morning I would pray on the way to work that God would love others through me, that I could sort of just step aside and allow His love to be seen. Because how I would respond in the natural or how I would act or react to those being cruel to me would not show the love I have come to understand is the love God wants us to show others. I mess up. I admit. Everyday. But I can go to God and ask forgiveness in Jesus Name and know I have a clean slate to begin again and do the best I know how to do.

I have friends who are gay and I love them dearly. I have friends who are alcoholics, I love them dearly, and the list goes on but I have my sins and weaknesses also. I think the key is to just read God's word for ourselves, see what it says and let our hearts tell us what is true. Again, we must be discerning. There will be false teachers. There will be people who preach things that do not go along with the teachings of the Bible. Bottom line is, we must each find what we believe and why we believe it so that we can stand strong for the Lord, in this world each day we live and try to be a blessing to others, not a stumbling block. Thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts and beliefs with you.

This is the reason that I don't participate in organized religion. I think its all a bunch of hypocrisy.

Hi there! When I was younger, I was quite a spit fire, so to speak. Spoke my mind and if I said anything other than what I was feeling in my emotions, I felt I was being a hypocrite. A few years ago, a light bulb came on in my heart and head. I realized that if I asked Jesus into my heart, and chose to put my faith in Him, then I became a hypocrite by acting or reacting any other way than how I believe the Bible teaches I should be.

Emotions will lie and deceive me and get me off kelter. I mess up daily but what I try to do now is not listen so much to my emotions (although they have an important place in our lives) but just think about what I have read in the Bible and the teachings that are there.

I felt so much hypocrisy was in the church and politics, and schools, that I was going to speak my mind and tell them all just what I thought. Well, I will tell you Chi, that there are days, my tongue gets ahead of my brain and I blow it royally but I do try to keep focused more on what I believe to be true, more than what I feel to be true these days. I guess I am a work in progress and sometimes progress regresses instead of progresses. LOL Just hangin' in there, doing the best I can each day and thanking God for this site and all it has to offer in terms of sharing, caring and insight. :)

Jesus wasn't a Christian, but he extended his hand to a prostitute. Do you think there is a lesson in that?

I used to be christian, until my pastor began telling me how wrong everyone else in the world was. ...

I'm sorry you had this bad experience. That pastor obviously does not represent Christianity.

I guess what I am asking is If your religion preachess love and truth why when good people do things that you disagree wiith, even when they hurt no one, do you feel the need to point and tell them how condemned they are. I thought god said, I give you the choice... why can't you people just let us choose.

Not everyone does this. I see this so much that it is very sad... atheists tend to have this inability to stop lumping Christians together. You run across a few Christians who upset you or say something you don't agree with... who says or does something most Christians don't agree with it and you automatically assume ALL Christians are the same.

Or what's worse, you once held the Christian beliefs but allowed what some other Christian said or did to completely turn you away from your faith. It seems to me that your faith wasn't strong to begin with.

Atheists go out of their way to come to the Christian boards frequently to tell Christians they aren't using logic, they think it is absolutely ridiculous that we hold beliefs in God whom they don't know, but how many of us are changing our beliefs because of what they say or do?

I'm not speaking of anyone in particular. I'm not even speaking solely of this Christian board, or any Christian board on any website period. It always happens, not just on the internet... it happens anywhere there is any Christian activity at all.

It doesn't bother most of us... actually most of us welcome anyone who wants to talk with us about God... so long as people can remain adults on the matter.

The point I am trying to make is why do you let it bother you so much? If you are so sure that God does not exist, that His laws and teachings are not for you to follow because you don't even believe He is real, then why does it get to you?

When an atheists tells me that I am ridiculous, I am ignorant because of my belief in God, it has no affect on me. It does not nor will change my faith. If they are being rude or saying and doing something I disagree with, I have the choice to move on, to discontinue talking to them and being around them. But what I am not going to do is allow a select few to have an impact on who I am and what I believe in. Why would it? If I am so sure of God, why would anything they say or do have an impact one me?

If you are so sure God doesn't exist and that it is all a fairy tale why are you allowing what any Christian says to have an impact on you?
__________________________________________________ ________________

This is a good example of what I have always asked atheists to think about. I ask them to sit and truly think about why it is they care so much to talk about and be so involved in something they believe to be a fairytale, that is ridiculousness, that is illogical and ignorant.

Why the Christian religion? Why not Buddahism, why not Hindu, Islam, Jewish, etc. They may get involved with other religions discussion, but not like Christianity? Why is that? Is it because Christianity has the most followers? That seems very lacking to me, because an atheist who feels the need to be involved in Christian discussion, obviously feels very strongly about their disbelief. If you feel so strongly about your disbelief in God or gods then involving yourself in Christianity discussions wouldn't have such a strong hold over you. If it means so much to you to let everyone know why you don't think there is a God or gods then you would be everywhere.

The point I am trying to make is I wish you would sit down and actually ponder why it is so important for you to get involved in discussions about what you believe to be a fairytale, or illogical, or ridiculous or ignorant.

I believe it is because you are fighting the pull you feel to God, and not just any God, but the One and Only God, tooth and nail. Your denial of it only has value to you, so you should save it for someone who believes you because every Christian here knows it. The reason? Because we have already been there, done that.

Chrissy the Bottom line is that ONLY ONE view can be correct. ALL religions can not be correct. It is impossible. I happen to believe that Jesus is the only way. He is the way the Truth and the light as He claims. I have studdied the Bible and come to the conclution that it is absolute truth because of the overwhelming evidence to prove its validity. I have also had personal encounters with God where I know His hand was on my life.

sassyT, Chrissy the Bottom line is that ONLY ONE view can be correct.
Sorry to disagree, but that is hardly ever the case, when it comes to faith. As there are many views, we all think our view is correct, because thats the only one we bother with, because they can't be right, therefore must be dismissed. Until thru your own investigation, you would see that this is true among Christians, and there different sects, traditions, and dogma, as it is all the other religions. The differences are subtle, but they all say the same thing. My Indian friend is as steadfast in his belief as you are.
ALL religions can not be correct.
Yes they can!
It is impossible.
Step back, and look at them, and see for yourself. No matter what the name of the religion, they all say the same thing, My way and not yours even though history can trace them back to a common root.
I happen to believe that Jesus is the only way. He is the way the Truth and the light as He claims. I have studied the Bible and come to the conclusion that it is absolute truth because of the overwhelming evidence to prove its validity.
That is exactly what every religious person says, they change the names and dates, but speak of the same truth, the same God.
I have also had personal encounters with God where I know His hand was on my life.
Me too, so we agree. Hard as it is to believe, we are a lot more alike , than different. Pointing only to the differences is more the work of ambitious men, rather than what God really wants, and thats to love each other because we are the same, and despite the differences we see.

sassyT, Chrissy the Bottom line is that ONLY ONE view can be correct.
Sorry to disagree, but that is hardly ever the case, when it comes to faith. As there are many views, we all think our view is correct, because thats the only one we bother with, because they can't be right, therefore must be dismissed. Until thru your own investigation, you would see that this is true among Christians, and there different sects, traditions, and dogma, as it is all the other religions. The differences are subtle, but they all say the same thing. My Indian friend is as steadfast in his belief as you are.
ALL religions can not be correct.
Yes they can!
It is impossible.
Step back, and look at them, and see for yourself. No matter what the name of the religion, they all say the same thing, My way and not yours even though history can trace them back to a common root.

I happen to believe that Jesus is the only way. He is the way the Truth and the light as He claims. I have studied the Bible and come to the conclusion that it is absolute truth because of the overwhelming evidence to prove its validity.
That is exactly what every religious person says, they change the names and dates, but speak of the same truth, the same God.
I have also had personal encounters with God where I know His hand was on my life.
Me too, so we agree. Hard as it is to believe, we are a lot more alike , than different. Pointing only to the differences is more the work of ambitious men, rather than what God really wants, and thats to love each other because we are the same, and despite the differences we see.

Talaniman, do you realise what you saying. How can all be religions be right?

First of all Atheist believe There is no God and Theist believe there is a God? So how can both views be right? Impossible. Its either there is a God who created the Universe OR there is no God/deity and the Universe just happened. Both can not possibly be true.

Christians believe to go to heaven you have to accept Christ as savior while Judaism believes you just have to keep the 10 commandments. How can both be right? It's one or the other.

Some religions don't believe there is a heaven and a hell.
Some religions say there is only a heaven and no hell.
Some religions say when a person dies they become reincarnated and come back as someone else.
Others say there are 5 gods others say No there is only 1 God.
The Bibe teaches there is only ONE True God and the ONLY way to Him is through His son Jesus.

So tell me how can all these ideologies be all right? It is not feasible. One of them is right! If one is right the others can not be.
How can the Be Only One God and the same time be 5 gods?
How can there be hell and the same time there is no Hell?
That does not make sense. Yes all religions have a lot in common but the fundamental ideology in each is very different and there is no way they can all be right because they all contradict each other.

:) G'Day ; If you are truly born again you cannot fall or fail, salvation is a GIFT, not earned or bestowed because of worthiness, but an unmerited gift and as such will never be taken back, He might chastise you but never reject you, and if you are not born again, by the spirit of God, then you are non of His, and so have no part in salvation no matter how good or bad one is.
Meditate on the flood, how many "good" people perished?

Blessings Miykle

Some people of faith feel the need to bash their beliefs over the head of anyone and everyone they come in contact with. Some people of no faith feel the need to do the same. But there are members of each side who have great respect for others points of view, morals and beliefs. It's these people, the ones who respect people for their merit, not their belief in the afterlife, we should all strive to surround ourselves with.

But in the end you should do what makes you happy, feel complete, and feel satisfied. If you get those feelings without a belief in god, that's great; if you only get those feelings with a belief in god, that's great too. It's a personal thing, and there's no need to justify yourself to others.

So tell me how can all these ideologies be all right? It is not feasible. One of them is right! If one is right the others can not be.
How can the Be Only One God and the same time be 5 gods?
How can there be hell and the same time there is no Hell?
That does not make sense. Yes all religions have a lot in common but the fundamental ideology in each is very different and there is no way they can all be right because they all contradict each other.

Its like the old tale of the blind men, who came upon an elephant. They could only see the elephant from where they touched him, so as they described the elephant, they were all right, because that's all they knew. But what they couldn't see was the true shape of the elephant. It is the nature of man, to believe only what he can see, but there is another view, that you cannot see at this time, so we are all right, yet have not seen the bigger picture, but rest assured, as we have better vision, we will see a more clearer picture. As you have said yourself you have studied the bible, so that's all you can see, but there are other views to study, and that's why I know what I do, we as humans are the same.

I am sorry there has been few Christians giving you answers, it is obvoius that many non christians wish to speak for christians on here.

In Christianity, there is only ONE, way and only one way to be saved, if you don't believe in Christ as your Lord and Savior you are not saved, PERIOD, no other way. There are large percentages of church members who do not meet that.

It is not how good you live, not how much you give to the poor, it is just one thing, accepting Christ as your Savior. If you don't do that you will not be saved and will not be in heaven.

That is what the bible teaches, it is not judging, it is not condemning, it is merely teaching what the bible says.

So while perhaps your pastor said, and how he said it, but no you can not be a Buddhist ( nno matter how good) and be saved,
You can not be a member of Islam, and be saved,

If you have not accepted Christ as your Savior you are not saved.

It is plain and simple, anyone who says you can be saved some other way than by accepting Christ is not a Christian, can not speak for a Christian, and has no business trying to tell people what Christians believe.

As for the homosexual, have they accepted Christ, if they did, they are saved, they are still living in sin, but they are saved.

I am sorry there has been few Christians giving you answers, it is obvoius that many non christians wish to speak for christians on here.

Just to be clear, I thought I was speaking for myself, but your correct, I am a non Christian. How can that be wrong on a public forum? If we must be technical, Jesus was a non Christian.

Yes, but I do not want a person who is asking on a Christian thread, about what christians have to say about a subject to be confused,
If the people do not say they are "heathens" OK non christians, the original poster may well believe that a christian believes you can be saved by budda, or you can be saved by doing good works,

I was only trying to make it clear to the original poster that most of the answers they had gotten about what a christian believes was basically from non christians.

I never meant to imply that your religion is not correct. In fact through the experience I have come to believe that as long as you are a good person, if there is a God, he will except you for whoever you are... isn't that nicer than a Lord who banishes you to hell? What I was asking is why if your bible says we have rights to choose, why do so many ( not all but many) christians and catholics press their beliefs upon others who simply do not wish to hear it.

I never meant to imply that your religion is not correct. In fact through the experiance i have come to believe that as long as you are a good person, if there is a God, he will except you for whoever you are... isnt that nicer than a Lord who banishes you to hell? What I was asking is why if your bible says we have rights to choose, why do so many ( not all but many) christians and catholics press their beliefs upon others who simply do not wish to hear it.

Hi there! I guess I misunderstood your first post. I missed when you asked why can't we (I assume you mean those who have asked Jesus into our hearts to be Lord and Savior) just let you choose. I thought you were asking the questions you did ask in your first post in light of what your pastor had been saying in your church. Perhaps that is part of most problems when people try to communicate, especially just in typing, we just don't get the whole picture of the post. My answer to that question is that I care about people. I have found that life with the Lord has been much better than without Him and because of that, just want to share that peace and caring with others. I do respect your right to choose. I know that with each choice we make, also comes responsibility for those choices. I thank you for reading my post. I leave you with the thought that God does not banish anyone to Hell. He gives us a choice. We make that choice. He has made provision and it is up to each individual to chose... accept or reject... that provision. God is a loving God but He is also a just God. Choose Well. Best to you Chrissyg89.

Goodness, it is surprising how well we all get along considering we don't really know each other and are typing to one another and cannot hear the inflection in one another's voice. We cannot hear compassion, fear, questioning, concern or love. But please understand this, I have enjoyed the sharing that has taken place on this thread you started. It has been a good experience for me and I hope you have not minded too much, my misunderstanding your first question.

If the people do not say they are "heathens" ok non christians, the orginal poster may well beleive that a christian beleives you can be saved by budda, or you can be saved by doing good works,

Some Christians do believe this - just not the conservative ones such as yourself. But the original post wasn't asking how to be saved, it was asking why do many Christians judge and condemn those unlike them to hell.

EDIT TO ADD: I'm a heathen, so take my post how you wish. I still stand by it though.

No, since the heathens stopped thowing the christians to the lions, they are still allowed to post on the Christian board ( joke intended)

But if they wanted to know why christans judge, I would challenge someone who is a non christian, how they know, they may agree some christians do, but they do not know really way they do.

And actually the person condemns thierself to hell, since it is their choice to accept Christ or not. A christian or anyone can judge their actions by the bible and see what is right or wrong

**** I do have a few openings to doom people to hell, coming up next week, but will leave that open for the people on the morning drive to work.

One God.
One Son.
One Body (the church).
One Baptism.
One source of God's word (the Bible).

Just as Talaniman is certain that all religions are correct.
I am just as certain that there is only one true religion.
People were first called Christians in Antioch, this was the beginning of the one true church. Others who couldn't abide by the teachings of Christ spawned their own churches. Man made churches.

Unless we are with Christ, we are against Him.

And the only way that I can see why you would say that all religions are alike is because you don't really know what the true religion of God is. The only way to know is by reading the Bible.

Of course Christ extended His hand to sinners, that's what He came here for. That's what all Christians are here for, to bring unbelievers to God's word.

My question is what about the religions who don't even believe in Jesus? How can they all be the same? The common root they can be traced back to is Jesus. But if they have turned against Jesus and God's word, they can no longer be the same.

God is the only one who can judge and condemn those who do not believe.

My question is what about the religions who don't even believe in Jesus? How can they all be the same?
They are the same because they all require you to believe in something greater than yourself.
The common root they can be traced back to is Jesus.
Actually they do not as man and his religion, predates Christ.
But if they have turned against Jesus and God's word, they can no longer be the same.
Semantics, tradition, and dogma is a local thing. Believing is God is personal. Man has always congregated together by agreement, and fought wars because of disagreement.

God is the only one who can judge and condemn those who do not believe.

You got that right!

You got that right!

Why do you say this as if I am judging you. Is it because by accusing Christians as 'judging' everyone, you can justify your judging of Christians?

I do what God tells me to do, inform others about Christ. God will be doing the judging. Telling others is not judging. If it were then you are judging all Christians with your non belief. Doesn't really make any sense does it?

I feel the same way about your comments.

If someone comes on here who really wants an answer, then I will respond, but I think you and I might as well agree that you are not here for answers and we will never agree.

Wow, I agreed with you, and you go all sensitive, and defensive.

Wow, I agreed with you, and you go all sensitive, and defensive.

Sorry, I thought you were being sarcastic. I didn't think you would ever agree with me.
Sorry again.

Man has always congregated together by agreement, and fought wars because of disagreement.

Fighting wars because of disagreements. Sounds like they're not all the same.

They all fight. Yes it's a human thing. They do it in the name of God, and that too, is a human thing, which has little to do with God, but a lot to do with control.

Sorry if I came off as sarcastic, Not my intention.

Bottom line is your Pastor nor the congregation is going to 'save' you so you have to be sure in your own heart your relationship with God and your faith.

As usual, there is probably a problem in communication here. If someone, pastor or otherwise, tells you that you must accept Jesus Christ as your LORD, (that means you do what He says) or be lost to Hell, that is witnessing or preaching the gospel. If someone, pastor or otherwise, directs his words to you personally and says that you are going to Hell, that is judging, because he doesn't know what is in your heart.

Its like the old tale of the blind men, who came upon an elephant. They could only see the elephant from where they touched him, so as they described the elephant, they were all right, because thats all they knew. But what they couldn't see was the true shape of the elephant. It is the nature of man, to believe only what he can see, but there is another view, that you cannot see at this time, so we are all right, yet have not seen the bigger picture, but rest assured, as we have better vision, we will see a more clearer picture. As you have said yourself you have studied the bible, so thats all you can see, but there are other views to study, and thats why I know what I do, we as humans are the same.


Actually before I gave my life to Christ studied a lot of religions, I have read the Koran and of course the Torah. I also know a lot about oriental religions as well as Hinduism. After studying all these religions I have personally come to the conclution that The Bible is absolute truth. If the Bible turns out to be truth, that means all other religions are not right in their idiology. If the Bible is right that means there is only one God and the only way to Him is through his son Jesus Christ. I believe the devil miss leads people into thinking all religions are right and you can get to God through anyone. Jesus said " i am the way the truth and the light, no one comes to the father (GOD) but by me"
So the bottom line is there can be 5000 religions out there but only ONE is True. When I was in the darkest moment in my life, it was Jesus who came to my rescue, not Mohamed not Budha not Krishna. That is why my trust is in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Sorry, I can put no one, and nothing, between or before me, and the God that I understand, just me though. I see no difference in the way God has created all men either. Still just me. Its all good, and I feel very comfortable letting God judge as he will.

I used to be christian, until my pastor began telling me how wrong everyone else in the world was.

Without knowing what he said, I can't comment upon that.


All i could think was, how can you be saying those people are wrong when they rely on faith just as you do?

All faith is not the same.


Does a Buddhist not have faith that his religion is true?

I suppose.


And if someone who does not believe in jesus lives their life well, why should they be condemned?

How do you define "well"?


If a gay man is sweet and kind and thoughful, or just doesn't step on any toes, why should he burn in hell?

If he acts upon his unnatural urges, because he has rejected God's gift and God's laws:

Believing one self to be gay is not a sin in itself. Acting upon the homosexual urges is a sin against God and the nature which He has given man:

Genesis 2 24 Wherefore a man shall leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they shall be two in one flesh.


Or a girl who made a mistake and in result chose to terminate her pregnancy, why must you all look down at her?

Because she has committed the murder of the unborn.

What do you mean by "look down at her"?

If you mean that I would point out that she has murdered her child and must repent before God, I see that as giving her advice for her eternal life. Murder is sin unto death.


I guess what I am asking is If your religion preachess love and truth why when good people do things that you disagree wiith, even when they hurt no one, do you feel the need to point and tell them how condemned they are.

In the example of abortion, the woman has harmed her child. Murdered the child in fact.

In the example of the homosexual, the gay person, you have not given an example of a sin. But if he has acted upon his homosexual urges, he has harmed his own body and the one with whom he indulged in this sin. Even if the sin were consensual.


I thought god said, I give you the choice... why can't you people just let us choose.

You do have a choice. We advice against your choosing the curse rather than the blessing. But if that is what you or anyone choose, there is little we can do about it.

Deuteronomy 30 19 I call heaven and earth to witness this day, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Choose therefore life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Sincerely,

De Maria

All we as christians can do is tell about Him, God, but you yourself have to seek Him, if that is what you wish to do, but no one is forcing you, if you think someone is, God gave us free will and it is our choice on what we do with Gods gift of salvation to us.

Christians believe to go to heaven you have to accept Christ as savior while Judaism believes you just have to keep the 10 commandments. How can both be right? It’s one or the other.


Actually accepting Christ and keeping the commandments are both christian concepts. It just depends on what your church desides is the right way. Even Jesus quotes the Ten Commandments when asked how to be saved. The whole heaven and hell idea is also christian. Judaism doesn't dwell on how to get to heaven but how to get closer to God while living here on earth. For just that reason there is over 600 rules and laws in the OT. While I agree with you that every religion cannot be right I couldn't help but notice from this quote that you don't know very much about Judaism or your own religion.


If he acts upon his unnatural urges, because he has rejected God's gift and God's laws:


For a person who is gay, it is a very natural thing for him/her. The common mistake christians make is to think it's a choice. This way of thinking has led many confused people to kill themselves because they thought something was wrong with them or because the church they grew up in preached they would go to hell.


Believing one self to be gay is not a sin in itself. Acting upon the homosexual urges is a sin against God and the nature which He has given man:


There are some strange laws in the OT where of course, all of this started from. What people need to remember is MAN made the laws and MAN wrote them down. When these laws were being made by the Irealites they were a small nomadic clan. There was empires all around them. In order for them to take the lands they wanted, or God promised them(how ever you want to believe it) they needed an army. Now you couldn't very well build an army if couples were having anal and men and women were sleeping with their own kind could you. These kinds of laws were made for reasons needed back then and had nothing to do with getting to heaven or not. Of course the best way to get these laws followed was to say it would anger GOD if they weren't followed.


In the example of abortion, the woman has harmed her child. Murdered the child in fact.


How can the Bible be used to speak against this? Against murder of all things?
I personally am against abortion as a form of birth control but there are plenty of reasons a woman would choose to have one. If I was a woman there is no way in hell I would want to go through 9 months of being pregnant and then a life long reminder after the kid is born, of the night I was raped. Do you really think a loving and caring God would want a woman to live the rest of her life with that pain?


In the example of the homosexual, the gay person, you have not given an example of a sin. But if he has acted upon his homosexual urges, he has harmed his own body and the one with whom he indulged in this sin. Even if the sin were consensual.


I'm not really sure what you mean about harming his body. Can you explain this to me?


To the original question.

If anyone(preacher/teacher) tells you these things it's pretty much because he doesn't understand his own bible and the time and place it's pages was written. If the Bible was followed word for word we would still be killing our disobedient children.

I think it dangerous to take what ancient man wrote, and think it's a directive from God. A personal relationship with HIM, is what's needed. Men lie! They also have their own agenda. I am not just speaking of the bible here either, as man has written many books, and put them forth as the only truth, or make them somehow divine. That's why we have free choice. Just my humble opinion.