*This is a behalf of a friend

Katie and Jim were dating for 2 years, Katie became pregnant while supporting Jim and his mom, Katie continued to work and support Jim and his mom all through out her pregnancy. Katie got off work at 4 pm on a Tuesday and had Bob at 8 pm that evening. Bob is now 7 months old and Katie is tired of supporting Bob and his mom. Bob and his mom do not own cars or have jobs, pay any bills, or help financially with the baby. Katie owns her new vehicle and pays all bills and supports child alone.

Katie and Bob got into an argument and Katie decided enough is enough, to avoid any domestic violence, Katie left the apartment on a Monday evening, stayed with a friend all night. (Jim has NEVER kept Bob over night alone) Now it is Thursday, and Jims mom has taken Bob out of town with all of his belongings and no one knows where she is going or planning on taking Bob.

Is there anyway Katie can get Bob back? We live in Texas if that helps with any state law issues.

*Names have been changed for their protection

Jim's mother does not have the right to take the baby away out of state, it is considered illegal and even if it is not out of state, without the permission of both parents, it is illegal.

Jim's mother does not have the right to take the baby away out of state, it is considered illegal and even if it is not out of state, without the permission of both parents, it is illegal.


What can should she do?

File a police report that this woman took off with her child, press charges. She should call Jim first and tell him that if his mother doesn't bring the baby back right now that she is calling the police. She is not at fault, it is not irresponsible to leave the child with its father and grandmother, but the grandmother CANNOT just take off with the baby.

Just to update everyone: As long as ONE parent knows where the baby is it is completely legal. We went to the police station and that is exactly what they told us. STUPID,yes, I know.

If I were the mother, I would try to get papers filed in court as soon as possible to try to get custody as the mother, filing that they have taken the child away from her without her consent, and that they are not allowing any access to her. By filing for custody, as the only parent with an income, she will also be establishing that she has not abandoned the child in any way.

Yes she has filed and its in progress... but days seem like years when your child is gone. We started on Wednesday, and he was served papers today I believe. The police pretty much can't do anything because its civil, so they say!

Are you kidding me? If one parent takes off with a child and does not inform the other, it can be considered kidnapping. This situation is ridiculous. She should call the state police. That is insane.

Are you kidding me? If one parent takes off with a child and does not inform the other, it can be considered kidnapping. This situation is ridiculous. She should call the state police. That is insane.


Yes, it's insane but it's the same thing in NYS. As long as there is no custody agreement both parents are entitled to travel with the child, wherever.

Frightening - !

The next obstacle is not getting into Court; it's getting the person who has the child served, particularly if no one knows where he/she is.

I am aware of one situation where the mother alleged abuse or the possibility of abuse through neglect, filed a Petition and the Police DID get immediately involved by Court Order, getting the child back and getting a Protective Order for the mother - but, again, that's only one case and she made a very convincing argument.

(Is this you or a friend? I notice you say something like "we" at one point. If it's you - I'm sorry, this must be just horrible to live through.)

Im a bit confused but Im thinking the baby is ( Bob ) and he is currently with the Grandmother ? If that's true then that is considered kidnapping. The police and FBI should be notified and an amber alert should have already been put out. If they never went to court for custody and he isn't on the Birth Certificate then they are in bad shape.
Your friend needs to move on this NOW and not wait any longer .

Im a bit confused but Im thinking the baby is ( Bob ) and he is currently with the Grandmother ? If thats true then that is considered kidnapping. The police and FBI should be notified and an amber alert should have already been put out. If they never went to court for custody and he isnt on the Birth Certificate then they are in bad shape.
Your friend needs to move on this NOW and not wait any longer .



Don't think this is Amber alert stuff but I just re-read and realized that the mother left the apartment following an argument and left the child behind. That never looks really good to the Court.

(The Amber alert language is - among other things - "Plans require a child be at risk for serious bodily harm or death before an alert can be issued. This element is clearly related to law enforcement’s recognition that stranger abductions represent the greatest danger to children. The need for timely, accurate information based on strict and clearly understood criteria is critical, again keeping in mind the “best judgment” approach.")

Calidadof3: yes the baby is with the grandmother and Katie called Jim last night and he refused to let her see Bob. The police have been notified and they say there is nothing they can do because one parent knows where the child is. Bob has Jim's last name and Jim is on the Birth Certificate, unfourtantly.

Anybody else have any ideas, or know anything that might help. The lawyer said the temporary hearing won't be until the end of next week sometime. Also, Jim has went to Katies work and followed her around all day yesterday, but the cops said there is nothing they can do about that either because he has not physically face to face confronted her, but to call them if he comes there again. So today he came there again, and she called, and the officer said she was being childish.

This is so frustrating, because you hear/read about all this help for people like her out there but no one seems to be able to help. So we just have to play the waiting game!

What state are they in ? That might help resolve some of your problems. Some staes have stalking laws in place when you start filing papers and there are federal laws for stalking too.

What state are they in ? That might help resolve some of your problems. Some staes have stalking laws in place when you start filing papers and there are federal laws for stalking too.


We are in Texas! Ya know everything is bigger in TEXAS well not the LAWS!! Sorry I am very frustrated!

I hope this helps these are 2 links for questions you have:

Texas Stalking Laws:
About.com: http://www.ncvc.org/src/main.aspx?dbID=DB_Texas176 (http://crime.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=crime&cdn=newsissues&tm=11&gps=43_859_788_397&f=00&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.ncvc.org/src/main.aspx%3FdbID%3DDB_Texas176)

Texas Child Custody Laws:
Texas Child Custody Laws (http://www.helpyourselfdivorce.com/texas-child-custody.html)

File an emergancy order for child custody ( separation also) once you have legal custody of the child, during this procedure have the court issue an order to produce the child.

Also with no money or job there is a limited number of places they can be, fmaily or friends, one shoul be able to hunt them down.

** also I wlll say, since she just left her child with a man who has never keep the baby overnight, I am not as sorry for her as perhaps others have been.

Hello trying:

Cops LIE. Yes, they do. If they don't know the law, they could just say so. But nooo, they'd rather lie and eat doughnuts, instead of helping people. Oh, if there's somebody they can throw on the ground and step on his head, they're all up for that. But to investigate a kidnapping?? Nahhh - glazed is sooo much better.

So, given that cops lie, and given that your child was kidnapped, you just can't sit back and let this happen.

But, before I suggest that you start your campaign against the POLICE, I need a little clarification. Is Bob with his father?? Or is Bob just with his grandmother?? It makes a difference - a BIG difference. The grandmother cannot take Bob EVEN if the father knows where she and Bob are.

That's the law, and I don't care what some doughnut eating fat cop says!

Therefore, if Grandma is alone with Bob, she's a criminal.

I'm not intimidated by the jerk cops. You shouldn't be either. I don't know how far you're willing to go for your children, but if it were me, I'd go to the police station and I wouldn't leave until they started to do their jobs. I'd take the press, and I'd take a lawyer.

excon

Hello again:

Since this is the legal board, legal distinctions are paramount.

My advice above is not intended to excuse Katie from leaving Bob with Grandma on Monday. It wasn't good parenting. However, it's not abandonment... It's not neglect... It's not abuse... It wasn't NICE to Grandma. It wasn't polite. But, it wasn't illegal.

Irrespective of Katie's behavior, Grandma cannot take Bob, and keep him away from Katie. That's kidnapping - pure and simple.

excon

[QUOTE=excon]Hello again:

Since this is the legal board, legal distinctions are paramount.

My advice above is not intended to excuse Katie from leaving Bob with Grandma on Monday. It wasn’t good parenting. However, it's not abandonment... It's not neglect... It's not abuse... It wasn't NICE to Grandma. It wasn't polite. But, it wasn't illegal.

Irrespective of Katie’s behavior, Grandma cannot take Bob, and keep him away from Katie. That's kidnapping - pure and simple.


I took a look at the various Statutes and abandonment in the majority of the States I looked at - including Texas - is either leaving and expressing an intention NOT to go back OR leaving for a period between 3 and 6 months. So, right, leaving overnight is not abandonment.

I think it's bad judgment to leave the child with this father, Fr. Chuck pretty much covered that, but you are right, this is a legal board not a good sense board.

But I still don't think it's kidnapping - I can't think of a category it does fit into, maybe custodial interference - I'll be curious to see how this plays out.

But I still don't think it's kidnapping - I can't think of a category it does fit into, maybe custodial interference Hello again, Judy:

Okee doakee, then. That's a crime too.

excon

Just to clairify, yes Bob is with the grandmother, Katie left Bob because she didn't want to play tug-a-war with her baby,and when she came back to get the baby, he as well as all of his belongings were gone! The next two nights the father spent the night at the apartment, assuming without the baby, because none off Bob's stuff was there! Katie is scared for her life, to go there while Jim is there, that is why she hasn't went over there while he is there. Katie asked the cops to go with her and the said they could not do that! She left Bob there because Jim has filled her head that if the cops get called CPS will be contacted and she will never get to see the baby again, so avoiding domestic violence she left the baby there.

She has a lawyer now, and a restraining order is in place, but not a protective order, the cops said that's a different thing? He can be arrested for protective order but not for restraining order??

As of now, we think that Bob is with the grandmother in a home that is not suitable for living, can we call CPS annonomously and have them go out and look?

Just to clairify, yes Bob is with the grandmother, Katie left Bob because she didnt want to play tug-a-war with her baby,and when she came back to get the baby, he as well as all of his belongings were gone! The next two nights the father spent the night at the apartment, assuming without the baby, because none off Bob's stuff was there! Katie is scared for her life, to go there while Jim is there, that is why she hasnt went over there while he is there. Katie asked the cops to go with her and the said they could not do that! She left Bob there because Jim has filled her head that if the cops get called CPS will be contacted and she will never get to see the baby again, so avoiding domestic violence she left the baby there.

She has a lawyer now, and a restraining order is in place, but not a protective order, the cops said thats a different thing?? He can be arrested for protective order but not for restraining order????

As of now, we think that Bob is with the grandmother in a home that is not suitable for living, can we call CPS annonomously and have them go out and look?


Meagan, I'm going to sound like an unsympathetic monster here and for that I apologize in advance. I also try to never judge (although I don't know everyone will agree with my evaluation of my past behavior) - BUT -

If someone had one of MY children in Hell, guarded by the Devil himself, I would be there getting my child back. There is no way I would leave my child behind, no reason, no way, for one hour, one day, one night. No way, particularly when she has nothing but complaints about the Grandmother and Father. It's not like this was a happy relationship in all directions and there was a spat and she left - not that that would be an excuse - but... no way! She left her child behind and she's too afraid to go and get him... or try to see if he's in the apartment? But she left her child.

Once again - nothing good to say about the boyfriend and his mother... so she has a child with him. And stays with him?

Pure and simple, Police or no Police, law or no law. If Katie has allowed "Jim" to emotionally abuse her - and that is what this is with the nonsense about CPS and the Police and whatever else - for some period (and I would say physically abuse her if she is afraid of him) then she owes it to her child to get the child out of there. So bad news comes to worse news - the child would be out of there if CPS investigates and so orders. I think they BOTH need parenting classes anyway and she needs a wake up call.

If she has a restraining order but needs a protective order then she needs to be on the Courthouse steps tomorrow and file for the protective order - of course, she has an Attorney and where is he/she during all of this?

And why in the World would you call CPS anonymously to report this situation unless you think the mother DOES have a concern about losing custody? So call CPS, tell them what you know and get them involved. Again - if this were MY child the Police would be busy restraining ME!

Get off the Internet and hire a Licensed Private Investigator - hire a good one and you'll know where EVERYONE is in a matter of hours.

Sorry, but I don't think the whole story is being posted.

I have to agree with Judy. I am very picky on who I leave my kids with and if I thought there was a problem concerning my child's safety in a house the door would be off the hinges and/or windows would be smashed to get my kid out. Waiting patiently would never have been an option. Maybe she'll at least learn from this and not leave her kid behind anymore. That being said get an attorney to get emergency custody established and the judge can also order an arrest warrant if appropriate. She will have to explaine why it took so long for her to do this and why she was afraid that CPS would take away her custody too though.

Sorry, but I don't think the whole story is being posted.

Thank you for your advice and opionion. I know that unless anyone has been through the same situation no one will understand, and no two situation are exactly the same. Again thanks for your opionion.

Actually if the mother has legal custody of the child by birth certificate and if her ex isn't present with the child to care for the baby then if " MOM " requests the child and G'ma refuses to return the child that's kidnapping. Kidnapping is holding someone against their will or by force. Since the child is so young then the responsibility goes on the parent to act in the child's best interest. So if the parent is requesting the child and nobody boths to release the child that's kidnapping.

She was afraid the CPS would take the baby away because she thought they would think he was in an unstable environment.

JUST TO BE CLEAR: All the paper work has been filed, and the appropriate law enforcement has been contacted!

I guess no one understands what I am asking, what can we do in the mean time. Court is not scheduled until Thursday morning!

Actually if the mother has legal custody of the child by birth certificate and if her ex isnt present with the child to care for the baby then if " MOM " requests the child and G'ma refuses to return the child thats kidnapping. Kidnapping is holding someone against their will or by force. Since the child is so young then the responsibility goes on the parent to act in the childs best interest. So if the parent is requesting the child and nobody boths to release the child thats kidnapping.

That's what we thought, but the Police said that as long as one parent knows then its not kidnapping, but Jim will not tell Katie where Bob is, but they said that's still OK, and not kidnapping!

She was afraid the CPS would take the baby away because she thought they would think he was in an unstable enviroment.

JUST TO BE CLEAR: All the paper work has been filed, and the appropriate law enforcement has been contacted!

I guess no one understands what I am asking, what can we do in the mean time. Court is not scheduled until Thursday morning!


Okay, that I can answer.

There is nothing you can do in the meantime. You have an Attorney. You've contacted the Police. You are out of options.

Everything else is just an opinion from people unfamiliar with your particular State, its laws, the situation -

what I am asking, what can we do in the mean time. Court is not scheduled until Thursday morning!Hello again:

I've told you what to do in the meantime. You just don't want to do it.

I'm going to say this one more time. You don't go to court over a kidnapping. You go to the cops. If the cops won't do anything, you don't go hide - you RAISE HELL!! Call the FBI.

I'm tired of talking to a wall.

excon

Last of the 2cents from me on this post just to clarify ( I hope ) 2 issues.

1) amber alerts
AMBER Alert - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMBER_Alert)

2) kidnapping
Kidnapping - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping)

Child abduction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abduction)

I hope those help with some understanding of what they are and how they may apply here.

We Won And Bob Is Safe And Sound At Home!

We Won And Bob Is Safe And Sound At Home!


Excellent - your friend must be beyond excited and relieved.

Did anyone ever explain what the law is, why this was so confusing and complicated?

Ok, My Uncles A Cop The Baby Has Technically Just Been Kidnapped No Matter Who Its By And About The Money Situation There Something Called Child Support Its When The Father Of The Baby Pays So Much A Month Out Of What He Makes To Support The Child.
Hope This Helps,
Sunkissed

Excellent - your friend must be beyond excited and relieved.

Did anyone ever explain what the law is, why this was so confusing and complicated?

Complicated and confusing because no police department would not help us because it was a civil case. Now that there is a court order they can assist us!

[QUOTE=SUNKISSED]Ok, My Uncles A Cop The Baby Has Technically Just Been Kidnapped No Matter Who Its By And About The Money Situation There Something Called Child Support Its When The Father Of The Baby Pays So Much A Month Out Of What He Makes To Support The Child.


I think we all know what child support is but ask your Uncle why if it's kidnapping no one would help her - I still don't understand that part and 1/2 the World says, no, the Police would step in and the other 1/2 says, no, it's not kidnapping. Attorneys in my area don't know!